Tough Love 2 - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Hi all! Apparently, Tough Love 1 ran out of space on the MB, so I am starting part 2 of Tough Love for the participants from the old forum and new comers. I had to do some investigation to find out what was going on.

Later.

Oh! I'll be back later.

Petvet,
We've been looking for you and didn't know how to contact you.
Check here for updates about thread problems: MB Magnolia Moderator help needed

And here is where we had begun to post:
Tough love?

But I like the title "Tough Love 2" like you stared, without the question mark. It seems more definitive. I'll direct everyone (those who had posted on the original thread) here.

Hi All Y'all! Although I generally post on 'The Kingdom Of Caerlon' I wanted to stop by and offer my sympathies for you losing your Original Thread. I hope everyone here has a good day and that this new 'Tough Love' thread lasts a very very very looooooooooong time!!
God bless,
Sauron

Hi All,

Found the thread... so here I am.

Sauron...

Thanks for your invite, and sympathies for our old thread.

Don't be a stranger.

How's everyone doing?

Hope all of you had a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hello there!

Good luck with this tread! Hopefully it will continue as long as the Kindom.

Hey Petvet, I am assuming you are a vet! If you are, I have a quick question for you. A friend of mine has barn cats. They all have respiratory infections. How can I get them treated cheap? One is pregnant!

So what is this thread all about? I am sort of new to the Divorce side. I have been posting on JFO for about two years. Some of you may know me. But that sad time is right around the corner for me!

Bye for now!

Ali~

Hi all! I was not too happy that the original thread had to bit the dust, but I gues MB has its limitations.

Avondale: I'm glad you found version 2 of Tough Love. How are you doing?

Wallace: What's up with you? How is the lady friend?

Ali88: Even though I am not a vet (Biology kill me in college, so I had to give up my dream; however, I show dogs. I don't have any quick remedies, but I recommend you check www.upco.com. They have a ton of medications for animals that don't require a prescription. Wild cats can spread diseases you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Be careful! Version 1 and now 2 of this thread has been in operation for at least two years I think. It's a community of folks who are experiencing marital issues with wondering spouses(WS) and need advice and support from folks who have gone through the same situation. Some of us like myself are divorce. We also try to support those who are making the transition from married to the divorce status.

Sauron: Welcome!

Me: I am doing well. I missed everyone.

Later.

Hi PetVet! Thank you for your most kind invite regarding this Thread. I humbly accept and will be happy to be a part of 'Tough Love 2' -- and may I add that both my wife & I are avid animal-lovers, namely, 'Man's (or Woman's) Best Friend' our 4-legged pooches commonly known as DOG.
Both of us have been thru Divorce, etc. and we are thankful to God that He saw fit for us to meet each other and finally realize what true Marriage is supposed to be.
We both still have baggage from past hurts of those marriages, however, we work thru them one day at a time.
Again, "THANK YOU!" for your invitation.
On the other thread I am a member of, "The Kingdom Of Caerlon" I spin tunes lyrics and just generally hang out...
Blessings, Peace, Long life and Happiness, as well as Healing to all who abide here...
Sauron <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh, yeah, BIG animal lover here too!

Petvet, Do you want a chessie, blk lab/golden mix?? He is great dog. Needs manners! He is also brindle. ??? I saw the parents and the grandparents. Many people argue with me that he cannot be the three breeds that I mentioned and be brindle. But he is!!!

My sister has border collies. One is a "confirmation" BC. Can you say brat? What kind of dogs do you show?

Thanks for that site. My friend picked up the cats from people who didn't want them. So they're not wild kitties. Thank God!

Thanks for that site, I will check it out!

Ali~

[ March 08, 2005, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]

Well, here we are at a new thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I'm going to try to pick up where we left off...in question form!

Leah - What ever happened to the trip your H was going to make w/co-worker? Has that happened yet? Is your tougher stance working?

Wallace - I knew your "breakup" wouldn't last!

Petvet - Are you staying on top of the taxes? I didn't know you showed dogs! What breed?

Relady - Have you planned your trip yet? Where did you decide to go?

Trusting - I haven't heard from you in a while except for the UBB links. Are you doing OK? How are your kids? Please post soon!

Stacy - How are you doing? I know the beginning stages of Plan B are rough, there are so many questions. It's a fine line of doing Tough Love and doing it with love.

Me - Doing well. Just finished a yard renovation. I would like some input from y'all...Knowing what you know about me, and how long I "waited" for my H, how would you answer this?
If I saw my exH in the grocery store, what should I do?

I could duck into another aisle to avoid any awkwardness.</li>

I could sail on without acknowledging him</li>

I could say "hi" and/or talk (which I don't want to do)</li>

OK, before you start thinking about the fact that I shouldn't be the one feeling awkward, or hiding from him, or whatever, please know that I already know that. It would just be less stress for ME to not interact. I know some of you haven't seen your ex since they left, but maybe you have friends who've been in this situation. I just KNOW I'm going to see him now that he's moved nearby, and I wish I didn't have that to worry about. I want to be prepared when the inevitable happens. Thanks!

[ March 08, 2005, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]

Hi Everyone,

Welcome to the newcomers, Ali and Sauron. It's always nice to hear from others.

Avondale,

In answer to your question, they are on their trip now. I'm struggling a bit but trying to think the right thoughts.

I'm not sure how "tough" a stand I'm taking right now. I have definitely tried some new strategies. I've dropped back a lot in my responses to H. ( Far less questioning, keeping my opinions and thoughts much more private, not arguing with him about anything ) It has been challenging keeping so much inside but it has also been MUCH more peaceful.

H has repeatedly spoken very positively toward me and others regarding me. He says things like how excited he is to have me as his wife again. He says how he looks forward to coming home and other such comments. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> He has also been much more respectful,responsive and kind to me. So that part is good.

But... I'm not quite sure how I feel about everything. I don't know if what I'm doing is truly producing an authentic relationship or just a mute woman with a free husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I guess I'm still trying to figure out me and who I really am and what I'm suppose to be. I'm afraid that is where I spend a lot of time.

About your situation... it sounds as if you really aren't ready for any type of interaction with your husband. For that reason, I would go with your first possible suggestion. Just find another aisle to duck into. Ignoring him would probably seem rude. Talking to him would probably be awkward for you. So, your first scenario sounds like the winner to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope you continue to do well as you move forward in your life. How I pray that the most difficult days are behind you and that you can find renewed peace and happiness as you look forward to the warmer days of spring. God bless!

Hi Petvet, Wallace, Relady and Trusting Him,

Hopefully everyone will find their way to this new thread and join us here. Take care!

Hi everyone! Just wanted to say 'Howdy!' to everyone here.. Ali - kool, I didn't know you had a Border Collie - they're beautiful animals. We have one too - very nice markings; she's black, white, and a little brown, with very long hair. She loves 'herding' our other 3 doggies! I believe the rest of the original posters here will return soon... And you have 2 NEW posters here - one of these days I'll fill in all the blanks on my Divorce - sure, it happened 6 1/2 years ago, but there are still issues with it, even though I've not spoken to nor seen my ex-Wife since the Divorce was final.. "My Heart Will Go On" and it does.. thanks Celine Dion for that great song..
Sauron

Hi all!

Ali: Oh know, I don't need anyother type of breeds. My dogs take up enough room by themselves. I have Alasken Malamutes.

Wallace: Breakup! Did I hear breakup? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Leah: You are a brave woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale: Believe me madam, your mindset is the same as mind when it comes to the ex. Options one and two are ok. Option 3: only if there's a gun to your head. My opinion is since they threw the relationship away during the marriage, they have demonstrated that they don't give a damn about the BS; as a result, why should I waste my time interacting with someone who treated me like dirt. I don't owe them anything. That's my two cents.

Me: Everythings is ok.

Later.

Sauron and Ali,

I love dogs too! We have two, a ****zu and a lasso. They are part of the family. They have given much love and affection during some of our difficult years. Glad you've both joined our thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet,

Brave or Stupid?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sometimes maybe a little of both? How are you surviving tax season? Aren't you an accountant? Take care!

Oh how funny! I just saw I've been edited for the first time - My dog's breed!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh my. Leah2be you are a card! I'm ROTF here when I saw you got 'edited' for a dog breed. I know what breed that is..
LOL I think EVERYBODY spells it that way, coz that is surely how we pronounce it! hehehehee
Alaska Malamute - they are beautiful dogs. I lived in Alaska - that is where I obtained FREEDOM from my EX-Wife, but while I lived there, I followed both the 'big' dog-sled races, the Yukon Quest and the Iditarod - both good races and I love Malamutes - they're strong dogs who sure can pull a sled!
Sauron

Hey all,

I see everyone is back on track and brought newcomers.

Wallace

Come on, tell the truth! You figured out a way to wipe out the history of the original "Tough Love" thread, so we wouldn't be able to make you eat your words, again and again and again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The last I read was you had broken up again, Which is it now? I'll trust you to update me!

Avondale

I haven't made any final plans yet, RCL hasn't gotten back to me yet on the exchange. They usually let me know around May.

Petvet

That is soooo funnny!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I also thought you were a vet! Imagine my surprise when I found out you were an accountant!

Leah2be

Has your H contacted you since he has been gone or have you called him?

Newcomers

Welcome!

relady

Hi Relady,

Glad to hear from you again.

My H has returned from his trip. I was a good little girl and refrained from calling. I've really backed way off and it seems to be working! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He called a few times and was very happy to come home. He said he missed me and that we'll have to plan a trip back to this one spot he visited. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> He's been very positive and upbeat. I'm trying to take all his actions at face value and NOT question anything.

I'm enjoying the present state of things and keep praying my way through it.

Hey everyone,

Sorry for not posting lately, but boy, have I been busy at work, and at home.

Petvet...

I knew you were not a vet, but I didn't know that you showed dogs. I have an Aussie, and this dog is wired for sound. He likes to herd people around by nipping their butts while he is vhasing them around when we are outside.

The Dog is smart... I'll tell you that... he in fact thinks he is human.

In regards to my G/F... you heard correctly... we did kinda sorta break up... this relationship is sinking fast IMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

avondale...

In regards to your question about your "H", and what should you do when you run into him (keep in mind... I haven't seen nor spoken to my exW since we split up), so this is coming from a person that probably would just walk right on by her, and not utter a word.

I think you will need to acknowledge he's there, by being courteous and saying, "Hello"!

Then just keep right on walking.

If he sees that your trying to dodge him... he's going to think that your losing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sauron...

I noticed that there are many of us on these boards that haven't seen nor spoken to their ex-spouses since all the wonderfulness went down.

I know why I haven't seen nor spoken to mine... I don't want to... I have absolutely nothing to say to her... even if I did run into her in a store.

Hey! Are you still living in Alaska?

Leah...

Hehehe... oh you have one of those type of dogs... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> That was pretty funny that it edited out the breed of Dog you have. You must of meant a sheetzoo! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad to hear that your "H" seems to be coming around. Keep doing exactly what your doing... don't change a thing.

I know it's hard, but if your "H" is faking it... he will let his guard down eventually. Give it some time and see how it checks out.

Alli...

Glad to see you posting here... we always like to hear from everyone when they get the time.

relady...

How's all your businesses doing?

Oh... I might have hijacked the old "Tough Love" thread. I tried to post, and that was the end of it.

I kinda miss the old thread... know we can't go back and see what we had said during any given time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It just breaks my heart. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

All kidding aside... I hope they can at least get it up as a read only thread.

Stacey...

How are you making out?

Haven't heard a peep out of you for awhile. Hopefully you can find this thread, and post.

Trusting Him...

I noticed that you got a post in the old thread... after it went down.

How did you do that?

Let us know how your making out.

To all, and any that I might have missed... hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Me? Live in Alaska? NOT!
The WICKED Witch Of The North still lives there and she has caused our kids soooooo much damage as well as tried her very best to split up my own Blood Family from me.. But she failed..
I live in Granbury, Texas - where the weather is (usually) warm and the people here are much friendlier than the ones in Alaska were...
Only thing I miss about Alaska are the Northern Lights - they are awesome! The rest of the state can melt and fall off into the ocean for all I care heheheee.
Sauron

Leah - That was funny! LOL Youâ€™re such a BAD girl, writing words like that! It is great news about your H....was his response (that you described) similar to the way he was at previous homecomings, when you were in recovery before? Can you tell a difference at all?

Wallace - I hadnâ€™t thought of what my H would think if he caught me dodging him. I do think I could manage a civil â€œhelloâ€ (and nothing else) without emotionally damaging myself. I guess that gives me two options now. Thanks! So tell us, how many times have you spoken to your G/F this week? What are your weekend plans with her?

Trusting - Wallace was right, it looks like you were able to post on the old thread after we couldnâ€™t. How did that happen?

Relady - I agree with you, we need to get the old thread at least as â€œread-onlyâ€ so we can make Wallace eat his words again and again...

Petvet - I knew you werenâ€™t a vet cuz I asked that question earlier in my tenure here. But I didnâ€™t know you showed dogs, how cool! Have you won any prizes? Is this how you met your buddy? How DID you meet, anyway??

Stacy - Howâ€™s it going? I hope youâ€™ve found this thread, do you have an update on your situation?

Newbies - Welcome

Avondale,

You ask if it's like it was before in recovery...hmmmm, he might have been occasionally like that before. But it has been a long time since I remember anything so positive.

It seems up to a few weeks ago, we were rapidly growing apart. The wall was huge. This is all so different and I keep waiting for it to shift again. Time will tell.

I'm just trying to remain consistent in my actions towards him. In the past, I've been too reactive and imaginative in my thoughtlife. I keep praying for the ability to be very careful to take things to God first and then guardedly express myself to H.

I'm very curious how all of this will pan out. I'm trying to NOT let my hopes get up too much.

How are you doing? Any interesting plans in your future?

Wallace,

I wonder if God was smiling down upon you when that old thread disappeared. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You want to know something funny? I had just read some of the pages from long ago about your g/f that I was going to refer you to. You had posted some things to Roll Me Away. She had written back some really thought provoking stuff. I thought it might be helpful for you to re-read some of those old posts. But then, POOF, it all disappeared when I went to write you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Oh well, maybe it still might get revived, then we can all have fun eating our words together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So are you and G/F together this weekend? I wasn't quite sure how to take your last comment to Petvet. Hope you are doing okay.

As far as me and H, I'm trying to keep doing what I'm doing, as you recommend, and to wait and see what happens. You're right- If he's less than genuine, it will change again. I'm hoping for the best but trying to be prepared for less than that.

Hi to Everyone Else,

Happy Weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey! Sauron... Alaska is beautiful! Just have your ex fall through a melted whole and have a polar bear eat her for lunch! Or is she too bitter? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sorry didn't wnat to offend anyone!

Thanks for the welcome! Ahhhh, the divorce starts, the ugly comes alive! Help!!!!!!

Ali~

LOL she's too BITTER - I think even a VULTURE would spit her out ROTF here hehehee.
Sauron

Hi All,

I just had a nice long post to all of you, and lost it... go figure.

Maybe they don't want me hijacking this thread as well... so I'll keep it very short.

avondale...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quote by avondale:

I knew your "breakup" wouldn't last!

<hr /></blockquote>It was touch and go there for the last 2 weeks.

I did a "Tough Love", "Jerry Maguire" (sp?) kinda move at dinner last night.

She did a complete 180 degree turn... and for now... we are a couple again.

I told her that I wasn't going to "M" her until all of our kids were outta the house... and if she couldn't live with that... then, I was sorry, but that was the best I could offer.

She said she would wait, and also agreed, so only time will tell.

relady...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />By relady:

Come on, tell the truth! You figured out a way to wipe out the history of the original "Tough Love" thread, so we wouldn't be able to make you eat your words, again and again and again!

<hr /></blockquote>I love eating my old words... it's the "Breakfast of Champions!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sauron...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quote by Sauron:

Me? Live in Alaska? NOT!
The WICKED Witch Of The North still lives there and she has caused our kids soooooo much damage as well as tried her very best to split up my own Blood Family from me.. But she failed..

<hr /></blockquote>Ahhhh, yes... the damage that they leave behind usually is quite extensive.

I didn't know that Alaskans were that unfriendly until you posted it. No Alaska for me then.

Texas, now that is a good place to be... I have many friends in Texas... good choice to pick for a State to live in.

I lived in San Antone, for a couple of years, many years ago. I think it was a past life that I had, at least it seems like it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

leah...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quote by Leah:

I wonder if God was smiling down upon you when that old thread disappeared. You want to know something funny? I had just read some of the pages from long ago about your g/f that I was going to refer you to. You had posted some things to Roll Me Away. She had written back some really thought provoking stuff. I thought it might be helpful for you to re-read some of those old posts. But then, POOF, it all disappeared when I went to write you

<hr /></blockquote>I wish you were able to post those... I do miss the ability to at least reread what was posted.

Our history just disappeared when that thread went down... I'm pretty bummed out about it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quote by leah:

As far as me and H, I'm trying to keep doing what I'm doing, as you recommend, and to wait and see what happens. You're right- If he's less than genuine, it will change again. I'm hoping for the best but trying to be prepared for less than that. <hr /></blockquote>You keep that frame of mind... and no matter what direction your "M" turns... you will do just fine.

Stay the course... I think we may have another recovery here!

Ali...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quote by Ali

Thanks for the welcome! Ahhhh, the divorce starts, the ugly comes alive! Help!!!!!!

<hr /></blockquote>We are here for you Ali!

Whatever help you need... we will try to help you.

I'm sorry to hear that the "D" is starting up... let us know what is going on when you get a chance.

Petvet...

I still am not sure if you went on vacation... even as I post this.

So, if you went to Hawaii... how was it, and how are you and your buddy doing?

Sauron...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quote by Sauron:

LOL she's too BITTER - I think even a VULTURE would spit her out ROTF here hehehee.

<hr /></blockquote>ROTF... I had to acknowledge this as I read this... LOL!

All I can say... is ditto to what you posted.

If my exW had a Vulture pecking away at her... I think it would do the same thing... "Bitter", I think in my case that sums it up in a nut shell.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[ March 12, 2005, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]

Ok cuz I know this thread has a sense of humor, I saw this and was laughing. I wish LostHusband and StillSeeking saw this. I would love to hear their reaction to this.

Andy Rooney Sixty Minutes

"For all those men who say, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free", here's an update for you. Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it's not worth buying an entire Pig, just to get a little sausage."

Tee heee heee! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK I hope I didn't offend anyone here! I just thought it was funny.

Thanks Wallace. Yes, the process has started. The Mr. will be living her only three days a week.

I am still partial about Texas though. That state will always remind me the beginning of the end of our marriage. But again, it was a blessing in deguise.

The little one is needing his Mommy!

Ali~

LOL... I evidently didn't hook up with the 80%.

My G/F is not part of that 80%... if she had her way... I'd be "M" tomorrow to her.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hey Ali88! I liked the pig/sausage joke - hehehehee good one! Thanks for sharing.
Yah I will say this - some men - not all - can be PIGS hehehe.
Same for some of the womenfolk, however in my case, not all. I know some very sweet and kind women - mostly older ones, but beginning with my wonderful Wife, of course!
My Ex? She's bitter only coz SHE wants to be. Most of the peeps in Alaska are OK - like any other state (with exception of Texas) kinda ordinary, and yes you can make many good friends up in Alaska. Why is Texas an exception? Coz peeps here are SOUTHERNERS and we just might have some HILLBILLY in us too!
And it might be that good down-home Country Cooking too...
San Antone - yah I love that place! Sometimes I wish we lived down there, but all our Family is up here in Ft. Worth area so that is where we'll stay for now. My side of the Family is mostly up in Virginia - but I don't like Virginia either. That's another state I would not mind seeing fall off into the ocean...
So.. (as the Germans say when they're talking to you) With that said, I am glad I joined this Thread and also it's good to see it up and going again - you know, so many times I lurked on the other 'Tough Love' thread, but never quite posted on it.. however this time, I'm glad I did!
God bless All Y'all!!!
Sauron (Harold T) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey All!

Sauron...

Glad to see that your here... and I'm glad that you decided to stay around and post.

The more people posting... the better.

It's always good to get as many different perspectives on issues as the come up, as we can.

Me...

Had a very good weekend, just not long enough as always.

G/F and I are surprisingly doing quite well still... so that's a good sign.

Still putting all my Tax info together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I love tax season.

Well I hope everyone has a very good day, and a good week as well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[ March 14, 2005, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]

Gee's havn't filed yet? We got our refund two weeks ago. And where did it go? Gone, gone, gone!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Oh my. Leah2be you are a card! I'm ROTF here when I saw you got 'edited' for a dog breed. I know what breed that is..
<hr /></blockquote>Where did I miss this????

OK I JUST WANT TO CRY! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> It is not H. related either!

Ali~

I just looooooooooooooooooove spending our $$ before we get them... apparently our Government does the same thing, ... so why not? Can't take it with you! LOL
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> --------Sauron--------- Here's another funny I got in the email this evening.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

After every flight, pilots fill out a form called a gripe sheet, which conveys to the mechanics problems encountered with the aircraft during the flight that need repair or correction. The mechanics read and correct problem, and then respond in writing on the lower half of the form what remedial action was taken, and the pilot reviews the gripe sheets before the next flight.
Never let it be said that ground crews and engineers lack a sense of humor.
Here are some actual logged maintenance complaints and problems as submitted by Qantas pilots and the solution recorded by maintenance engineers. By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never had an accident.
(P =The problem logged by the pilot.) (S =The solution and action taken by the engineers.)

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.

P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on back-order.

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're there for.

P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.

P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.

P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget

Hi all!

Sauron: I think folks in Alaska may have attitude issues because it is so darn cold. Sunny weather makes folks happy. What do you think?

Relady: No, I'm not a vet, but I wanted to be. Folks close to me have tried to get me to try again, and you know after the kid is out of college and on his own, I think I am going to apply to vet school to see what happens. I want to at least try before I die. Thanks for asking because I just came up with the idea. Buddy has always told me to give it a shot, but I have a kid to take care of first. How is business? How is the love life?

Leah: Yes, I would be cautious about your H. Play along until you know there is a sea of change. I bit your little fellow is something else. The toys are a lot of work to groom.

Wallace: I love Aussies, but they are wired. I know someone who has a couple of champions and they are so beautiful when they are groomed. They make good yard dogs when you can keep them inside the yard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Avondale: Yeah! How to greet the ex is am issue for all concern. I try to pay them no never mind. How are things going?

Me: Corporate tax returns were due yesterday, so I have been busy right up to the deadline. Someone brought up Roll Me Away. I really miss her from the thread. Avondale reminds me of her so much. I hope things are going well for her in her new union. I met buddy at a school and smoozed her over a six-nine month period.

Later.

Wallace:

[QUOTE] Wallace: I love Aussies, but they are wired. I know someone who has a couple of champions and they are so beautiful when they are groomed. They make good yard dogs when you can keep them inside the yard.[QUOTE]

Yes, Aussies and all other herding dogs are wired. I know one who is actually very calm. Weird I know. I kept telling my frined I am going to steal her dog.

It is almost the one year anniversary that I had to put down my border mix. He always escaped and went after some kids in the sub divison behind me. So we were kind of forced to put him down. I will never forgive myself for that because he was a great dog! I am still angry at our on neighbor who kept calling animal control on me. Sad thing she goes to our church and she is really nice.

Ali~

Hey All,

Sorry for not posting lately... but, boy do I have a bunch going on right now.

I'm still working my taxes, as I'm probably going to have to pay in this year. I don't want to give my money up to them too quickly. I'll probably go right to the wire with it.

Sauron...

I liked that post with the Airline Pilot and the Mechanic. It was funny some of those responses that they shot back at each other.

What made it even funnier... is it was an actual response back to each other.

Ali...

Petey... that's my Aussie's name, is a good dog.

We never let him out of the yard... but he has his moments sometimes.

He loves to run!

Imagine that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

Are you aware of that Dog breeders/Dog show program they have coming on Cable/Satelite?

I can't remember what channel it's on, or going to be on... but I saw a commercial for it about a week ago?

Who knows... maybe we will see you on it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

avondale, relady, Leah, Trusting Him, Stacey and everybody else that I missed...

How is everyone doing?

Let us know when you get a chance.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[ March 17, 2005, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]

The Sun. O yes, the Sun. El Sol. We LOVE him down here in Texas - when he's not hiding behind the clouds those nasty bad old Cold Fronts bring down here every Winter and early Spring. Sunny days bring many joys, at least for me! Alaska peeps DO have issues in the Wintertime - their days are ONLY 3 1/2 hours long then... DOH! Is it any wonder they drink more alcohol per capita than any of the other 50 states! More murders in the Winter as well - cabin fever sets in - it's not pretty. Although, in Summer - it's a kool place to be, especially in Anchorage area..
I'm glad someone like my sense of humor about those Q&A responses from Quantas Airlines - I cracked up when I first read them. More humor to follow as I can find it...
Peace (in Iraq)
Sauron

.. kickin' it 2 the top.. how's everyone here?
El Sol came out in strength yesterday - got up to 75 and very nice! Good day for working outside...
www.hcnews.com --- our town is having 'OUTHOUSE RACES' today! anyone care to 'give it a go' heheheheheee
Oh my. Such a killer PUN...
SDLOM

Hi there all -- I am back again but definitely in a better state than a year ago. Yes I tried the reconciliation for yet another year but the lies and the drinking has become worse than ever. I have now moved out of the house and the divorce is going forward. Just a reminder for those of you who do not know me I am a single mother of 4 boys and 4 girls ranging from 17-5 my stbx is bipolar and alcoholic. We have been together for 18 years. 1st separation March 3 2003, reconciled for one year 2nd seperation Mar 6 2004, reconciled for one year and again Feb 17, 2005 I moved out into my own place with my children and he left for VA to stay with his parent's yet again ---the family of enablers--- The kids keep saying he won't be back, Who knows??? Today is a tough day, I really thought I was ready for it this time but the pain of knowing the bottle mean't more to him and that my life has come to this. I am positive most days but every now and then like today it hits me with a ton of bricks. I am trying to get everything settled and the kids feeling secure. Thanks for all of your support the last 2 years. I will read the threads to get me updated with all of you. Talk to you soon

Mommax8

WOW... Left with 8! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Care to give me any suggestions on how you do it? I sometime wonder if my H is bipolar because his moods change so quick. Very unpredictable. Very happy one minute and then, very angry the next!

People like you inspire me! Makes my situation seem easy.

Ali~

[ March 20, 2005, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]

So Sauron...How am I doing???

Ummm, that Texas Killer Margarita will do just fine if that tells you anything! Gees, I was just at the store, should have picked up some of the goods. Yeah right..me with a buzz with two cranky kids. And by the time they go to sleep, I'd be so tired that nature has taken the cheap way out for me. Naturally drunk. Kinda like where I am now! Humm!

Hey Wallace,

My Border would find ways out! He had a screw loose according to the vets, pet therapist, behavorist etc,. He hated to be in a crate. If we left him out, he'd pee every where. Pretty gross. Severe separation anxiety. Even on meds he was nuts. But he was so lovable. When we would leave, we'd had to put him in the garage or in the back yard. But when we lived in our townhouse, We'd put him in the garage with all the goodies. Radio, big fluffy pillow, toys, kongs stuff with treats. Even stuff with my scent on it. He didn't care. He wanted out! So he learned how to open the garage door. Yep! He would paw at the button until it opened. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Got a call at work that he had escaped. Very smart dog. He also learned how to roll down the car window. Thank God for child locks! LOL. I loved that dog and I miss him soo very much. I still hate myself for putting him down.
So what color is your Aussie? My new dog needs a friend. Want him? He is half Chessie and golden retriever and black lab mix! Great dog. So why do I want to give him away? The biggest animal lover advocate for animals needs and against breeding when there is so many animals out there without a home. That is a whole new thread.

Anyway, I am soo tired I have no idea what I am typing. I have to go make the bed or I am going to be just sleeping on the mattress. I had bought a sheet set that is 600 thread count. I don't want to sleep on any other than those. They're in the dryer. Talk about soft! So I have to go put them on the bed and I am posting this why???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

buh bye and nite nite

Ali~

Ali88, {{{{{{{{{{{Ali}}}}}}}}}}}}} I really am sorry you have to deal with this crappy deck of cards your stbx has handed you. I do wish I had some kind of answers to help, but unfortunately I don't. Only thing I have is sympathy and some prayers for you. I know there are others here wiser than me who could help with some good solid suggestions.
I guess the only suggestion I could offer would be to:
1-Get a nice Manicure & Pedicure.
2-Fix up 2 Texas 'Killer' Margaritas.
3-Have a girlfriend over to just talk about things, laugh some maybe go to a movie or the park and enjoy some nice Spring weather.
4-Of course, get a good reliable babysitter for your children while you take a 'Day For Yourself'...
SDLOM

Hey Sauron and everyone,

Thanks for the cyber hugs. Being down totally sux!
Seeing doctor today for my ADD meds. Hopefully that will jump start my brain so I don't have to rely on caffine to get me going and not dwell on things. Like having a H that is trying to make me guilty! He still doesn't get it!!!!

As for the spring weather!!! I am in northern Illinois! We don't have spring! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Although, My Mom lives further up north and on Thursday while I was outside doing yard work (and I was loving it) it was sixty out! Until about four o'clock. Anyway, so I called her that day and she asked me what I was up to and I told her I was out raking the bushes. For some reason, all of the neighbors leaves hit the side of my garage along with the blown out garbage so I was cleaning up. She was like "what!!" " You mean it didn't snow"? That is the lake for ya! We are no where near the lake. As much as I love it, I can do without the weather it brings.

Manicure! Ohhh, I love my manicures. Get one every two weeks.

I feel that I just don't want to bother my friends anymore about this topic. I spent the day out with a good friend yesterday. I didn't get time to spend the day with the horses. And I am really missing that.

Holy Moly. OK, I am getting a new car. Because of the gas prices on the high rise, Texas, this doesn't effect you! I have narrowed the two models that I like. I am looking at the Camry Sport Editon. Or the Grand Prix becasue my Jeep cost 40 bucks to fil up and gas just went up to 2.20 a gallon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Thanks Bush!!!! Was going to get the Volvo S80 but I can get a new car for the price of a used one. Besides, I like the sporty look. Midlife crisis?????
So any advice would be highly appreciated! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I had an Accord, actually two. I loved them but they changed the style and it looks funny now! Except for the coupe. I like them but with two kids, I need 4 doors!

Ali~ Ho hum

[ March 21, 2005, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]

ALI

The only way I do it is to let God take over and I have to be his puppet on a string. I have been so blessed that I can't feel sorry for myself for too long....as if I had the time....but when I do have one of those days I just flow with it cry my eyes out for the day and then the next day I am fine. Thank you for the compliment -- my mentor Caroyn Kepchar from the Apprentice was at an Expo I attended and she told me that I was her mentor......talk about falling on the floor. I'm a mom that is what I am and it doesn't matter whether you have 1 or 20 children that is the biggest honor in the world.

Everyone have a blessed day

mommax8

Hey All,

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

MO...

I'm sorry to hear what happened. I was wondering what happened to you. Sorry to hear that you ended up back here... but like I always say... "if your going through all the wonderfulness... this is a good place to be."

So now where is everything situated?

Bi-polar, and an alchohlic... is a tough thing to deal with.

Ali...

As far as cars are concerned... even though I always try to buy American... I would go with the Camry. They are good cars, and they hold their resale value... plus my G/F has one... and it is a good car, that does well on gas.

Petey, my Aussie... is Chocalte brown with a white mix. He doesn't like to be locked up in anything. My YD closed her bedroom door with him still in there... and he tried digging his way under the door... through the carpet, and scratched the hard wood floors all up. Needless to say... I was not a happy camper.

I have three cats that my exW left behind... that I would just love to give to a nice household. I'm not a real fan of cats. I use to love them... but my exW choked me with so many of them... that I have no use for them anymore.

Sauron...

Sounds like you are getting some nice sun shiney days over there.

We had some over here for a little while... but it's all overcast, with rain with a slight mix of snow.

It kinda figures the weather would turn... I started up some more remodling again... and I'm still trying to get through my taxes.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[ March 21, 2005, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]

Wallace

How are you?? I have to go back and read the threads to catch up with all of you....

Well things stand as this.... we have tried to reconcile now twice.... he came back the second time on May 22, 2004...showed up on my doorstep letting me know that he walked away from his inheritance and that he wanted me and the kids that we were his life (he still says this) We went on a wonderful family vacation in June and all way wonderful until I started a new job. My job became very demanding and I had to start traveling....my first business trip was on October 3, 2004 and he began drinking again that night. I was in the middle of a meeting and my daughter calls me telling me that her dad just went down the highway with her drunk. i called my parent's and my pastor immediately and they came over and got the kids....

I arrived back home the next day and he knew immediately that is was finally over...I tried hard but I never forgave him for the last 2 times he left me...we agreed that as soon as he could move out he needed to. My job then asked me to work in Nashville for a couple of months and commute, because I was the only support I had to keep my job...I then ended up becoming a workaholic so I didn't have to face what was going on in my life.

I became really stupid and started seeing someone I work with in which I knew was wrong but I justified it by saying I have been getting divorced now for 2 years. Of course he treated me like a queen and he was everything that I could ever imagine to have in a guy...and he knew I had 8 kids. Then he gets sick and ends up in the hospital and low and behold his "girlfriend" is with him... and he just falls off the face of the earth. (oh my STBX did call him and is now doing some contracting work for him)I thought I was hurt by my husband....oh my gosh I might as well took a pitch fork to my heart.....I know now why they say do not get into a relationship for a long long time......this was just a month ago and I am still feeling that pain. He was able to numb the pain I was feeling....in the meantime I end up having to stop working for a while, I went through a month of deep depression and then finally on Feb 17, 2005 I moved out for good.

Things were trying to get better but STBX would call me everynight drunk and call me every name in the book then call me the next day apologizing and telling me I am the love of his life and how great I am. I now just hang up.

STBX left for Virginia on Sat. don't know if he will be back or not 17 year old son went with his dad, talk about a stab in the heart but he is almost 18 and he chose it...

I am moving on with my life I have enjoyed the time off to just be with my kids but I have to go back to work this week and see the co-worker which will be difficult but I am like a drug-rep and visiting offices and will rarely run into him, just strange....besides not what I need to be concerned with right now WHAT A BIG MISTAKE!!! My girlfriends and I have gone out a couple of times but I just don't feel right...I don't want the dating life. I want my family. That is the hardest part of all this I don't want to start over again. I invested 18 years in this relationship even though it was unhealthy for most of it....I just can't believe it has come to this...

I cried all day yesterday.... not for him...but for the family....today has been better, it is a beautiful day and I am truly blessed, my life is really good and my children are doing so much better...(don't know if you remember the 16 yr old but she swallowed a bottle of pills in August and ended up in ICU...she said because her dad started drinking again) didn't phase STBX at all. But I can say now that all the kids are away from him they are thriving and looking forward to a new life...

I am really glad to have a great support system like this one or I would have never made it the last 2 years....reading everyone elses stories makes me know that I am not alone.

Take care

Hey Ali! ... ummm gas prices actually 'do' affect us... in Texas. 2 weeks ago, we were paying $1,79 a gallon... last week it went to $1,92 for 2 days, then $1,99 last Friday. Yesterday it was $2,04 and this is for the cheapie lowest grade of gas - we drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee - love it! Wouldn't have anything else. However, may I suggest the Volvo for you? My dad is extremely picky about his cars and he always checks EVERYTHING out about them - repair records, etc. etc. and he swears by them. Of course, as you know, Jeep was rated as the #ONE SUV last year...
Winter weather? Looooooooooord I would just DIE if we lived in Chicago! I can't handle that cold weather like I used to! Spring 'WILL' get up to you, Ms. Ali. Just give it a little more time. If it's any comfort, we're in the middle of some serious 'Global Warming' so that's going to be interesting... Anarctic ice shelfs breaking off and melting.. etc. Alaska's permafrost is melting.. hottest Summer last year in London ever recorded... Butt... I am looking forward to the good ole 110 degree + Texas Summers again! Bring it on heheheee.
SDLOM/Harold

Wallace,

Hi! Just wanted you to know I'm still here and reading. It seems you are about the only "oldtimer" around. I miss our old gang!

How are things going with your girlfriend? Things have been interesting with H. He is no longer thrilled with me. I confronted him and his assistant(separately) I feel it was the right thing to do but now I'm dealing with the fall out of that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I will continue to take a strong stand for our M. We will see where this will take us. Overall, I will be guarded with my interactions with him but I must clearly communicate my convictions. I'm at peace with that. Take care.

Mommawith8,

I'm sorry life has been so challenging for you. I hope your decision to leave brings you some peace in your heart. Please try not to take his alcoholism as a rejection of you but realize it is an attempt to mask the pain he feels within.

He probably does mean it when he says he loves you and the children and that you mean the world to him. He's fighting his own battles now and will hopefully find the help he needs in time.

Meanwhile, do your best to continue to look to God to meet the needs of your heart. Take care.

Avondale,

If you still read here, you've got mail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi to Ally, Sauron, Petvet, Trusting, Relady,Stacy and Anyone I Might have Missed,

I hope you're all doing well. God Bless!

Hey everyone,

Momax...

It sounds like you have had a pretty eventful time since your last posts.

I agree 100% with what Leah stated.

I think your "H" is doing just that... masking his pain with alcohol.

My suggestion is the next time he calls... and he's been drinking... tell him to call back when he's sober and he truly wants a serious relationship, and until then, don't bother calling.

Let's see which one he wants more... the family or the bottle.

Leah...

My G/F and I are doing O.K., but as with anything that can change on a dime.

I'm still trying to get through my taxes, and I'm back into remodeling my house some more... so between that, my G/F and work... I'm pretty busy.

I think you did the right thing by confronting your "H" with what's going on, regardless of the fall out from it all. I would of done the same thing.

What did he have to say, after you brought it out into the light?

Your maintaining, and that's good to hear.

Well I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Mommax8 - I had wondered what happened to you, and thought of you in the last year or so. I'm glad you came back to Tough Love to post. And with all the problems we've had with this thread (the original one died due to the high numbers of bytes used)it's a miracle you found us!

I know it hurts that your oldest son went with your H...but he will see his dad for what he is sometime. Meanwhile, just stay in contact with him (son). Reinforce your love for him without whining (Tough Love) and tell him he's always welcome at your house (if this is the case). Does that sound do-able and make sense? I hope your family is still helping you out some. And this job you now have - if it takes you out of town some, what happens to your kids? Is there any way your H could say you were negligent because the kids were left alone?

Leah - I read your post in recovery. I think it was a big step for you to confront both your H and his assistant. Good for you! I'm sure you could not have done that without God's grace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> What type of fallout are you experiencing?

Relady - Have you been chased away, or are you still reading? I'm curious, are you dating?

Petvet - Hang on, tax season is almost over!

Trusting - I know that you still read the posts that are related to Tough Love. How is your son doing? Update us, please!

Wallace - Thanks for the email. Time will tell if you are right. Will you spend Easter with your G/F and all your kids?

Me - I will still respond to the Tough Love posts but will probably by-pass others. I need to make better use of my time and this seems the best way to do it and still be of support to others going through this (as Wallace says) "loveliness". Since I was given so much through all of you on TL1, I certainly want to help whenever I can. Happy Easter, everyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Double Post (not my fault, honestly)!
The icons are all over the page, LOL

[ March 22, 2005, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]

Leah, Wallace, Pet and Avon

Thank you so much for the encouragement...

I know that he is using the alcohol and it really is just to handle the pain but I don't think I can ever trust him again.

As far as your question whether or not I am traveling..I took another position so that I only take day trips and its my own schedule I am always there to drop off and pick up from school and home by 6pm.

I am finally able to be mom and bake,cook, clean and I love it..yes I know I must be crazy but I have had to be the one that worked for 17 years and it is great to have a job now that gives me the latitude to work my own hours. Any speaking of cooking kids are screaming for dinner

Thank you all for your support over the years your are all just great.....
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BIG HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Just thought I would drop in before I go back to my remodeling,

Mommax...

Once trust is lost... it is very difficult for someone to regain it.

I quoted this to my exW, a number of times before I decided to pull the plug for good.

"Trust is not given... it's earned!"

She never did quite get the concept of what I had stated... but personally I think it's very much to the point.

it is in fact a very difficult thing to give to someone... once the other spouse has in fact trampled your trust into the ground.

Besides God's rule... I try to live by these two rules as well.

I always try to communicate with whomever, and I always try to be honest, and ethical. (O.K., that may be three things)

My G/F say's that sometimes I'm too honest... so maybe that's a bad thing... I don't know.

Only your "H" can do it for himself now.

It's something that he has to want more than anything... otherwise he will lose it.

It's the little things in life that count!

Hopefully he wakes up and sees that.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[ March 22, 2005, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]

Hi avondale!

I saw that double post... LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

In regards to what I'm doing for Easter? Well that's a good question.

I'm going to go to Church... that's a given. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don't think myself and my G/F are going to get together for anything after Church. I think she is going to spend it with her Mom, and her Kids... and I'm probably just going to spend time with my kids as a family amongst ourselves.

We had a tradition every Easter... I would read about an hour's worth of scripture, and then we would all watch the movie, "King of Kings".

I think that may be on the agenda for this Easter.

What do you have planned?

Are you getting together with your daughter?

Easter dinner is always one of my favotie things... hopefully I can do some outdoor grilling if it's not snowing or raining.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi to Everyone!!!

110 degree weather!!! H3ll noooo! Ok some days at 95 but a 110? That's suffocating. I hate that stagnat air. Choke. But this cold weather has got to go. I love it when it is 65-70 out. I can work outside and not get hot or have my hands freeze.

I am extremely happy today. Only one thing can bring me down and I ain't saying! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> no really <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ohhh Sauron! Don't think I can handle a Killer Texas Margarita. It seems that I cannot handle my alcohol. I had a hang over from one appletini again? Gee's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What the heck is that?? Any suggestions on how to deal with one. And don't say drink a beer. That does not work!!! I know the water thing. But eeehhhhh, I still feel icky.

Ohh the ups and downs of getting a divorce. Why does my husband have to be so freakin stubborn?? WHY WHY WHY WHY???? Why does he have to make this so difficult??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Gees, anyone a self made millionaire who would help out financially?? Donations are kindly accepted! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> no, really <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Why does divorce have to suck?

Wallace, How's Petey!

My dog decided to spend the night at the local dog hotel last night. This never happened until we started to post this. But he escaped!!! We have a six foot high stockade fence and I guess he has been working on making a hole with his teeth. So under teh fence he went on a semi moonlit stroll to visit his other doggie friends. So he was gone all night. I called animal control and they had him. Fortunately, they micro chipped him because he ALWAYS slips his collar. I can have that collar choking him and he is still able to get it of him! How the heck does he do it? Any suggestions? So with a hang over(I hardley drink) off to the pound with lots of barking dogs and the smell of... well you know, to get the knucklehead <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> head!
OK I am going to dragg myself to make dinner and put away 4 loads of unfolded laundry! Oh joy!

Ali~

Wallace - Remodeling? O Lord! Please! I've done soooo much remodeling I'm sick of it hehehe. Right now, I'm in the process of (personally) tiling our entire house.. One section at a time... after ripping up the carpet...
Ali - hangovers? May I suggest my personal fave wine of choice.. Manichewitz Blackberry KOSHER wine? It's very smooth and a small glass would do very nicely..
Harold
----------

Post deleted by SauronTDL

Now that the moderators have updated the UBB program, let's use this as a fresh start for Tough Love . This thread was begun several years ago focusing on the "Love Must Be Tough" book by James Dobson. The very title of the thread brings people here who are interested in that subject. We share a common belief in God, and are considerate in our language. This thread needs to focus on those who have a shared history of Tough Love, and new ones who are interested in using the Tough Love techniques in their relationships. Anyone is welcome to post, but it would be best if the posts were succinct and in relation to the subject at hand.

Good Morning all!!!

Today is definitely a better day, I was able to cry my eyes out last night at Divorce Care and talk about my lonliness, and low and behold, the subject was on lonliness. I really need someone to protect me from myself. I have gone 36 hours without talking to my STBX I am so proud of myself. If I can just continue that I will be fine. I don't have to discuss the kids with him because he doesn't plan on seeing them until the next weekend and he doesn't have a set schedule to call them everynight, so I have no reason to have contact with him.

I sent an apology letter and told him that I was leaving everything with God and that I have turned it all over for him to carry not me. I can no longer place myself open to be hurt, that is what he keeps telling me as well but still has to hear the sound of my voice.

I cried so hard last night not realizing that the emotions are still so fresh, I am been pushing them down for some time and they are finally coming to the surface. I think my biggest challenge is that I don't go back to work for another week and while the kids are at school I am alone with my thoughts everyday and I just cave.

I hope everyone is doing well I am still trying to get used to the new board, I need to read the past threads so I can get updated on everyone. Thank you all for being such a great support.... {{{{{{{{{BIG HUG}}}}}}}}}}

Hi Everyone,

I'm curious if this will work as I've been trying to post for over an hour. I'm afraid I'm technically challenged to say the least. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

First, I'd like to agree with AVONDALE concerning the idea of staying within topic. I originally came to this thread with the purpose for finding help and support with "Tough Love". I have needed and continue to need encouragement in this area. This thread has been a tremendous support system.

Right now I'm needing encouragement in a BIG way. Since taking a stand regarding H's relationship with his assistant, H is now very angry with me. He says he is strongly considering divorce. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This breaks my heart. I'm trying to trust God with all of this. I could really use your prayers right now.

Mommato8, I'm praying for you. I know how hard it is to end a unhealthy relationship. I'm right there with you. I still love my husband and wish very much it could work. I'm trying to accept that apart from a miracle, it doesn't look like we're going to make it.

Hi to everyone else. I hope you are all doing well and that you enjoyed a nice Easter with your families.

I went with the girls to my sister's home. It was great to be with her and her family. They are a welcome oasis. Take care everyone and God bless you!

[color:"red"]Leah [/color] - What's new? Has your H said anything more specifically about divorce? Have you talked to a lawyer yet?

[color:"red"] Mx8 [/color] - I see you are able to post without too much difficulty. I'm keeping up with you on your other thread. You are walking a difficult road but I know you can handle it.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Are you unable to post or has the tax season taken over your life?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - Have you heard from a moderator yet about not being able to post? Is your relationship with your g/f still parallelling this whole thread/forum situation?

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - Where are you? You of all people should be able to overcome all the board problems here and post (or get your techie friend to help!)

[color:"red"] Relady [/color] - Where are you, too? We hadn't heard from you since before the big board breakdown. I hope we didn't lose you permanently!

[color:"green"] Me [/color] - Well I'm trying to get used to this new format too. It's frustrating and discouraging. I hope you can all post soon so we can get back on track <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi Avon-

I was having problems posting in the beginning but I found you can't post on the subject you have to click on the last posters name and do the quick reply. When I login and I go to the subject line to post it tells me the URL is unavailable I guess, I have found a way to get around it, I guess since I was married to a techie I learned some along the way....

Yes I have been posting on J.D.S thread, I can't believe how similar our situations are.

I have had rough couple of days and I am starting to weaken, I have to get through to August, the divorce will be final at the end of the month but I have always caved and got so tired and then go back into the insanity because for some reason that is more comfortable, I know that sounds so sick but the pain gets to be so much. My friends are getting me out of the house in which he tells my kids that I am a bad mother because I have a life outside kids 24/7. I can't even go to dinner with the divorcecare class without him telling the kids I have a boyfriend and that is who I am with. I don't even mention his drinking anymore, I don't live with him it is his business, but my life is all his business. This lonliness is killing me, my friends are telling me go out, date I just can't and besides as soon as someone finds out I have 8 kids they bolt so fast it isn't funny. I can see that it is going to be alot of lonliness for quite some time. I keep saying it is too soon, they say it's been 2 years in the making. I know I have to go with my gut and what I know and until I have that final decree I have no business dating at all.

Alot of pain the last couple of days, I miss my family unit, I miss being a wife, I miss having a husband, I just don't look forward to having to do the getting to know you thing. Been there done that, I had the person I was comfortable with, where I can throw my hair up and no makeup and not care. My girlfriends keep telling me, you have to look your best at all times because you never know when your going to meet that one.....Well if he's the one would it really matter what I look like.

What am I thinking I don't even need to be thinking about that, ok. Reality check one day at a time, enjoy life, your kids are your life, concentrate on them 24/7 and everything else will be fine.

I know I have rambled today, sorry for the moment of woe is me.....had to vent today....hope everyone else can start posting again...

Hey Pet, Wallace --- where have you been??

Quote

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - Where are you? You of all people should be able to overcome all the board problems here and post (or get your techie friend to help!)

OK, so the first post did not like me. Seems to be a bit of a problem. Sad thing is this is the same software I had on my site so I should know it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Still reading but little posting as I have no internet at home. Canceled the BellSouth service and telephone to have CAble TV, telephone and internet installed by them. But...they can't install until 04/08/05. Another 5 days before I can get back online.

A lot has transpired since early January and I surely need some advice and encouragment to deal with it all. I'll try and get all caught up this weekend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

To all the rest. Keep praying and hang in there. Regardless of how we feel we can be assured that God is still in control of at least out lives and He knows what is going on and where and how we need Him. Trust in Him and not in your own understanding.

Hi Everyone,

Thought I'd give an update on my situation. Things are NOT good at home. My husband is still wanting a divorce. The catch is he wants it all on his terms. He does not want us to go to court. He wants us to come up with an agreement together to be presented to an attorney.

This can be so discouraging. It is everything I've fought against for six and a half years. Yet, I'm ready to let go...I feel I really don't have any choices about it at this point.

I'm ready for a more peaceful life. Things have been difficult for too long. Maybe, this could be the beginning of a happier future. I'm trying to look at the positive side of things.

I'm trying to watch what I think about. When I start thinking Christmas or weekends without my girls, I begin a quick decent into a very sad place. SO, I must "bring every thought into captivity". It can take a lot of discipline, yet I can see the absolute necessity of that.

Child custody and visitation seem to be the hardest area of negotiation. How to split time and what is best for the girls? Tough questions to answer.

TRUSTING HIM,

Speaking of which,I wrote you an e-mail when the MB boards were down regarding questions about visitation. From what you wrote about being off line, I'm not sure if you still have access to that account. (Avondale gave me your address) Since our children are about the same age, I was wondering what advice you could offer to me.
Thanks for any input.

I hope each of you are doing well. My thoughts and prayers are with each of you.

Hi All,

I'm not doing very well with this new board, so if I mess up... please bear with me as I feel my way through this. So this is just going to be a kind of a test post.

Leah, Momax...

You both sound like your having a hard time of it, and my prayers are with you both as well as everyone else.

I'll expand further... but for some reason, I keep getting logged out.

I'll keep playing with this forum, and see what I can and can't do.

I'll be back in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hey Wallace

Yes, I did fuel the fire and have had to suffer the consequences royally. I agree with everyone on my email, I apologized and let him know how I was set straight. He knows of the site and has never gone to my posts until last night, he was instant messaging me copying and pasting my posts to me. I felt like my diary had just been read. Alot of mean things were said to each other on both ends and we both ended up at 3AM begging for a truce because we both felt beaten to a pulp.

I don't know what to do anymore, I feel like I can no longer trust my own judgment and I just may be reaping what I have sowed. The problem is that I can't seem to get across that we both deserve a life free from fighting and the pain we have put each other through. That we can no longer be married, that it is just to unhealthy for the both of us. I just want us to focus on the kids and be done with this already, stop hanging on and just let go.

I am so so tired, I think it be best that I just keep my mouth shut from now on, no more emails, just polite. Please tell me what to do............I need help

Take care

Hey All,

I'm still fighting with this board, but I thought I would try and get something in and say hello.

Momax...

You did in fact fuel the fire, and now you have to figure a way to contain it, and then put it out.

As you know... you now have your work cut out for you... so what I suggest... is give it about a month of N/C, with a cooling off period. You and your "H" revisit your "M" after that... and then decide what you and he want to do with your "M".

If nothing looks like it's going to get better... then IMHO, it's time to call it a day.

Petvet, avondale, relady, leah, Trusting Him, and anyone else I missed...

Hope your day is going well, and I hope you have a great weekend.

I'm going to keep fooling with this, and see if I can't get back to where I was before the change of the boards.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Where does one even begin?

It was way back in January when I sort of dropped out of sight. The former wife was leaping with joy becuase her new BF wanted to take out son hunting. We had a brief discussion about this so I guess she took matters into her own hands.

Instead of the hunting trip she canceled a trip to a friend’ house over the Holidays and everyone went off for the weekend. By everyone I mean

Her and our three children
BF and his 2 boys
BF's three brothers (all single)
2 other (single) male friends

and they all went camping.

So there are 6 single males, 5 children all under the age of 14 and my former . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Let's just say that I was a tad bit angry about this. First, DS and I had planned on going hunting ourselves that weekend. Somehow he ended up going out of town with a friend the previous Wednesday and was supposed to be home on Friday when friends Mom brought her son back here to be with his Dad.

So the dear former, 2 duaghters, BF and his 2 boys arrange to borrow a vehicle large enough to carry them all and arrange to pick son up in Montgomery. Her response to me? If DS had wanted to come home I would have brought him home. Hmmmmm....you are almost 100 miles from home and you really want me to believe that all of you would have turned around and drove 100 miles home to drop off DS and then turn back around nad drive another 170 miles to where you were going? Right! And I fell off the turnip truck yesterday.

I'm sorry. I once again spoke to her father about the image that trip made for our girls. Their Mom being there with all those single men and her being the only woman there. Bear in mind this was a man was was a Minsiter of Education in several different churchs for almost 17 years before he began teaching. Also a graduate of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I think it is good that daughter has friends that she can go off with and have a good time with the children. I raised her and taught her the best that I could and I feel that she is much more spiritual than I. She is quite capable of making decisions on her own. and then on to some statements about how I am simply reaping from what I have sowed. Duh! I agree whole heartily with that statement but it would seem that if I experience this for my past actions you would have to wonder what is in store for the former when she begins to reap what she has sowed.

Fast Forward to our son having lost almost 20 pounds. He's just growing. He's in his growth stage. Finally managed to get an appointment with his Doctor. Only after the Doctor's wife made a comment to former wife that DS sure did look pale and sickly. She made an appointment the next day. That night as I was talking to DS and he was telling me about the appointment he made the comment; Daddy, you've been telling Mom I looked pale and sickly for weeks. Why does she listen to Mrs. Friend but not to you? Son, you'll have to ask you Mom about that.

So off to the Doctor we go.

He had his CT Scan done
He had his Upper GI done
He had his Lower GI done
He had his Upper Endoscopy (esophagogastroduodenoscopy) done
He had his Colonoscopy done

In addition to all the blood they pulled from this poor little guy.

Three days in the hospital with no food, all given via IV.

End Result...

Acute Colitis
Acute Ulcerative ileitis
Acute Esophagitis
Acute and chronic gastritis <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And he missed over a month of school and the former still says that he's doing fine and this has nothing to do with our divorce. Even after the Doctor informs her that he needs counseling because he's internalized everything she sits in the hospital room talking with best friend about how a fight between best friend's son and BF's son has put a damper on their relationship. She actually told her friend that she needed to call BF and apologize for son's actions.

A few good things, she and I have had lunch with our son a couple of times. At least she has put aside her on selfish desires for a bit. I know a lot of that has to do with our DS being sick but it is the first time in over almost 2 years that we've done anything with any of the children. Even when they ask her she has always found a way to tell them no.

OK. I've ranted long enough. That was the last three months in a nutshell. A lot more drama than I care for but we have managed. There are some other things going on like oldet daughter telling Mom she's coming to stay with me when she turns 14. Our son telling her that if oldest daughter goes he's going too. That can be discussed later. I NEED all the help, encouragement and insight I can get.

Leah2be

From what I can tell there are good and bad traits that your husband has. I guess he a lot like all of us. Form where I sit today I can honestly say that the so called customary visitation is no where near enough time for a Father to play and be an active role in a child's life.

Sure, he or she (depending on the case) can make themselves available and attempt to attend all activities but unless there is some type of active communication between the parents the non-custodial parent is going to be left out. Our children will be 14, 12 and 9 this year. With all the activities they have going on at school and home it is hard (and I do not expect them to remember) for them to remember to tell the other parent everything that is going on. That is WHY Mom and Dad HAVE to put aside all differences to ensure that the best intrest of the children are being taken care of and not those of the parents.

If you husband is open to the idea of joint or 50/50 custody I would go that route. I'll share our son's idea. He wants Mom and Dad to get an apartment for the both of them. The children get to stay at their home all the time with Mom and Dad being the ones to apck up and go away for the alternate weeks. His reasoning for that is that home is his home. It was not his decision for this to ahppen and that we are the ones who need to suffer through the constant moving back and forth between home and the otherhouse. He also feels that if we did that there would be more finances available for their upkeep as our primary function would be caring for and providing for them. The apartment is just where Mom and Dad go and stay when they are not at home. Pretty smart of an 11 year old. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Of course, if you were a SAHM then there is the problem of finances and supporting the children without the full benefit of a hundred preent child support. I know I've looked at it here and if our custody was changed to 50/50 theer would be a substantial decrease in what I give to the former for child support. Unless of course the difference in salaries were were huge. Of course the Courts always hae the final say and it could still turn out in one or the others favor.

At 2:00 AM that's about all I can think of right now. I am sure that we can carry the discussion a lot futher and deeper as more questions and comments arise.

God bless you. You and the children (husband too) are still in my prayers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(( [color:"blue"]Trusting [/color] )) (( [color:"green"] Wallace [/color] )) It’s so great to see you both able to post here! Now all we need is to hear from Petvet and Relady and we’ll be back to business as usual. And maybe some new people will see we're Tough Love and post too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Mx8 [/color] - You got some great advice from Wallace. I agree, you do definitely need to separate yourself further by going into the “no contact” mode. Do not think of excuses/reasons to call your H. Let the kids call him if they need something, because they’re old enough to do that. Have you read everything on this site about Plan A & Plan B? I suggest reading it again, because Plan B (Tough Love) is where you need to be.

[color:"red"]Wallace [/color] - I hope you can update everyone soon on the current drama in your life.

[color:"red"]Trusting [/color] - It was so sad to hear about your son’s illness, but I’m glad the doctors caught it. How do you feel about your oldest daughter’s desire to live with you? Do you think your former will let her do that?

[color:"red"] Leah [/color]- Can you update the board too?

[color:"red"]Me [/color] - It is spring here, and I’m really enjoying how beautiful my yard is. And you know what? It’s all mine!

[color:"purple"] Suggestion [/color] - if anyone is still having problems staying logged in, type your post in a word processing program (MS Word or Word Perfect) and then cut & paste into MB.

Quote

Avondale said: How do you feel about your oldest daughter’s desire to live with you? Do you think your former will let her do that?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I feel great about it. There is a part of me that hurts when I think about the children being split up or seperated and it makes me question if it is the best thing for them or her.

Well the former let her? As she will be 14 it has reached a point where it does not matter if she allows it or not. the only question will be how pleasent she will be during the transition.

The oldest daughter and Mom have already had one talk about it and while the former expressed her dislike, her thoughts that it was not in her best intrest, and even to the point at one time of telling her that she would have to change schools I think she has finally begun to realize that this is what our daughter wants and she knows that at this point she's just about pushed Daddy to the limit of his niceness.

Hello All,

Where to begin... It's been a very tough week. Such a sad time. I'm afraid I'm battling discouragement as never before. I guess I always had hoped that a miracle would take place and we would end up living happily ever after. It's so hard to accept that it is not to be so.

But God is still in control and I will trust Him with all that I don't understand right now. He is faithful and I'm holding on to that. Right now there are "only one pair of footsteps in the sand" He has to carry me.

As far as negotiations towards divorce... YUCK! I can't stand it. My heart litterly hurts right now. So many awful, negative things were said today by H. He even said I didn't take responsibility for my actions and that I was a liar in front of our girls. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Ouch, Ouch Ouch.

I'm so hurt and yet I need to be stronger than ever now. I need your perspective folks. I'm willing to have joint custody with H even though this arrangement would break my heart. As it is now, I'm with them all the time as a SAHM. H spends what time he can but is gone most of the time with his business. They are use to being with me all the time. I think it would be tough on them.

Here's where I need your opinion. Although I'm willing to split custody even as much as 50/50, I don't want to write it up as OPEN CUSTODY. I feel with husband's erratic,spontaneous nature, I would forever be in the midst of negotiating time with him.

As it is, I'm not much of a negotiator. My H is powerful, strong and convincing. He always wins. My friends say he could give any Manhatten lawyer a run for their money. So...open custody to me spells continued stress and frustration.

I feel I'm being generous with my offer of shared custody, but my H is FURIOUS with me. He says I'm being completely unreasonable. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> He said if I don't agree to his terms, he's not going anywhere. He was hateful and scarry to me today. If I don't agree with what he wants, my life is about to become even more horrible than it is now.

Yet, I think it would be unwise to agree to his terms. I even said he could keep the business(Which is where the huge majority of our assets lie) if he could give me enough each month so I could save toward the future. We had been planning on using the sale of the business to retire eventually. Anyhow, it seems it will be impossible to come to any agreement. I'm really trying to meet with as many of his terms as I can, yet it's just too much of a stretch.

Please give me your input. I want to be kind and decent yet I don't want to be foolish. Oh you all, is there really any peace to be found on the other side? This is really not fun.

Sorry, I'm so down. I'm so worn out tonite from dealing with all of H's anger. Tomorrow will be a better day...Right? Thanks for listening.

Peace is where you find it, weather on this side of divorce or on the other side really depends on you. But I can assure you that peace does not come from you husband, your children or yourself but only in a right relationship with God. But you already know that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> , but like me we just forget sometimes where our strenght lies.

Open Custody? I am not familiar with that and when doing a quick search in Google all I got was a bunch of stuff about offenders and law breakers, nothing on child custody.

If, it means that you are at the whim of your husband either picking up or dropping off the children at his desire the I would say ABSOUTELY NOT. It sounds to me as if he wants to have his cake and eat it to.

Know that I'm praying for the best for you and the girls.

[color:"blue"] (( [/color] [color:"red"] Leah [/color] [color:"blue"] )) [/color] I know this is the roughest part! In all your posts, both private and here, I never recall hearing if you’ve contacted a lawyer. Have you done that? I think you might be at that point, where you need legal counsel and possibly legal intervention here. I didn’t have the children’s custody issue that you have, and that’s a big thing!

Yes, it does get better, this negotiating part is as bad as it gets. You are definitely RIGHT in not going with open custody (if it’s what it sounds like). You want terms that are pretty much set in stone so you won’t have to go through this negotiating ever again. Can (and will) your family help you financially if you need to get a lawyer? I would hope a judge would acknowledge it’s in the kids’ best interest for shared custody due to your circumstances.

I hope today is a better day for you. I know that its possible to go to bed with a heavy heart, and wake up the next day the same way during this mess. Try to not give in to that (easier said than done). I'm praying for you.

Hey All,

I'm at work, and I was able to log in... which is a first since the board change.

[color:"green"]Leah... [/color]

I'm sorry to hear that your going through all of this. I do remember all the heart ache it brought... pryaers for you, and let the Lord lead you and give you strength through all of this.

In my State I have never heard of a Open Custody arrangement.

I'll give you my 02 cents on this.

In most States... you can come up with whatever agreements you want to... but if the Judge does not think it's fair or in the best interests of the children... he will divide up everything the way he sees fit.

Your "H" doesn't have much negotiating room as far as who gets the children... unless he can prove your an unfit Mother. Usually it's 50/50, with the Mother being the Custodial parent, unless she relinquishes that right such as my exW did.

That's my opinion on it... each State differs. What's your Attorney say?

[color:"green"]avondale... [/color]

It's good to be back ((((( avondale))))) right back at you!

Sounds like thing s are going well for you.

No nice yard for me yet... we got 12" of snow yesterday, and I still have a lot of shoveling to do. It will green up here after the snow melts though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"green"]Me... [/color]

G/F and I are doing well after a major blow out over getting "M".

We broke up for about 2 days, and then decided we are going to wait until about 3 years from now... when the Kids are all out of both houses, and then decide if we still want to tie the knot.

We are still engaged, it's just going to be a very long engagement.

Theres more... but I have to go back to work now.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hello Friends,

Well, after trying to log on five times, I wrote a nice, long posts complete with colors and <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> then went to post it and poof, it was gone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> So frustrating...

I don't have time to retype everything and I'm afraid to lose it, so I'll give you all the condensed version. I went to the lawyer yesterday. He feels I am entitled to almost double the monthly support H is offering.

I am seriously considering agreeing with H's terms so that I can be at peace. He will only leave if I agree to his terms. I can make it on what he will give me. It will just be tight. Also, the peace factor is worth its weight in gold to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, H will come out faaar ahead of me. But, I'm okay with that because I know my needs will be met and God can take care of the rest.

Hope all of you are doing well. My prayers and thoughts are with you.

WALLACE,
If you give me your e-mail address, I can write you when I write others on this thread. I'm not having very much luck getting things written here.

[color:"red"] Leah, [/color]
I remember all too well what you're feeling. What I ended up doing was this: I figured out what [color:"blue"] I [/color] thought was fair for alimony (monthly amount and duration), and division of property (assets and house stuff). This was about 35% less in alimony than what my lawyer said was "the usual settlement" given our circumstances. Because I was so stressed, I gave my H a range of figures (starting at the amount I thought was fair (low) to the amount my lawyer thought was usual (high). Then I gave H that range. I felt doing this accomplished the purpose of letting him feel in control because he got to choose, and because it was a range from my own personal "thoughts" on settlement to what my lawyer said (which I quoted to H as just that), I knew it was something I could live with. If you haven't already done so, you might want to consider giving him a range of figures and just say "this is it, I will not negotiate beyond these figures. You realize they are more than fair, and you can choose any amount within this range."

What has happened regarding custody?

[color:"purple"] PS...when posting you may want to write in a word processing program, then cut and paste here. You won't get logged out cuz it's shorter time on MB site. [/color]

Avondale,

Thanks so much for the advice. I love that idea! I will do exactly that. The negotiations continue. It's so hard not knowing truth. I want to believe and trust my H with his facts and figures but... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

As far as the child custody situation, I believe we have that worked out. He's agreed that I would be the custodial parent and I've agreed to "liberal and something? visitation"

I will post this as is so I don't lose it. I'm going to have to learn how to write on windows and cut and paste as you've recommended. Thanks again![color:"blue"] [/color]

Leah
I should have added this to my "advice" for negotiating:
I still sometimes have regrets about not playing "hard ball" and going after the amount my lawyer had suggested. However, they are few and far between, and my needs are definitely being met. I think these times of regret are more likely attacks of the enemy to get me discouraged. The amount I gave when talking to H was fair to both of us, it just wasn't exhorbitant. Greed is not a trait we want, is it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

I had some problems logging in again until now... so I will be short and brief and see if this post goes through.

[color:"green"]Leah... [/color]

I can understand how your feeling, and I know that you just want it over (we all felt that way), and avondale has given you some good advice.

I just want to add... that if you go through with this... you want to make sure you have everything out on the table.

You will not be doing yourself or your kids any favors by just rushing through this, by trying to make it less stressful on you and the kids. I can understand your feelings as we have all been there. If you don't dot all the i's and cross all the t's when the "D" is all said and done with... it will eventually come back and bite you.

I'm speaking from first hand experience and with a very good Attorney. I went about it in the same mind set as you IMHO, and it was a huge mistake, which I'm still to this day dealing with as I write this, and it will be almost 2-1/2 years and counting down the road from my final "D" decree.

There are many things that need to be considered, CS, who pays the medical?

Who carries all the insurance, medical and life insurance in case something happens to one of you?

Who pays any outstanding debt... including the Taxes if you file a joint return this year?

Hospitalization and Dental for the kids?

The list goes on... and on... and on.

Hopefully you get my drift on how important all of this is.

Please don't walk in there with I just want to get this over with mentality... because it cause you a lot of time and expense in the long run.

I would make a list of everything you can possibly think of and write it down, and if you haven't got a good answer for it... I would give it some careful thought.

I don't want to see you have to go through what many of us on these boards have gone through... you have been through enough already. It's time to make the correct decisions on this... if in fact your going to have to follow through with it.

We care for you Leah, and we only want the best for you and your children.

Hope everyone else is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"red"]Leah [/color] ,
Wallace made some great points - especially with regards to the kids' needs (which I didn't have to deal with). You don't want to have to re-work anything down the road. Make sure you've thought through with everything that might come up (think Murphy's law - everything that can go wrong, will).
I am sending you an email with my work number.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - it's April 15 - how ya doin'?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

It seems I can now log in here at home, but I can't log in while I'm at work.

Leah...

My email address is:

williamwallace1953@comcast.net

I forgot to add that in my last post.

Well I have a "HOT" date with my G/F tonight... j/k

We are going out for dinner and I have a very busy weekend with a ton of things to take care of.

Hope everyone is doing well, and I hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

I do believe that [color:"red"] Petvet [/color] and [color:"red"] Relady [/color] have been casualties of the war with UBB...I hope y'all can (and will) post soon!

[color:"red"]Momma [/color] (aka "Left with 8 kids")....I know you've been able to post after the big board war, but haven't seen you in a while. How are things going for you?

[color:"red"] Leah [/color] - has anything more been settled with H?

[color:"red"]Wallace [/color] - so your relationship is on again, huh? I would be an emotional wreck with all that drama!

[color:"red"] Trusting [/color] - Congrats on your tax situation! Any more news on your daughter coming to live with you? Does that mean you'll have to go to court to change custody or financial arrangements?

[color:"red"] Me [/color] - I'm at the beach <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Everyone,

I have to laugh... everytime I go to post now I feel like I'm playing "beat the clock". I hurridly write my thoughts with the fear it will disappear when I try to post it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> So if things sound strange,please understand I'm writing as if this is a timed test.

[color:"purple"] [/color] Avondale,
Things are pretty much settled between us. I'm hoping that this agreement can be followed through without too much hoopla. I didn't know you were going to the beach. How wonderful for you. How long are you there? Hope you have a fantastic time.

[color:"blue"] [/color] Wallace,
Thanks for your advice concerning lawyers and settlement. I've thought long and hard about all of it. You are very correct about it involving so many things. All the things you mentioned were great. I've listed all those things as part of what I need to have taken care of.

I will be taking our agreement back to my lawyer and he will review it to see if we've covered everything. H feels I am getting a wonderful deal. I feel he's making out very well. So hopefully, we've struck the right balance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Who knows... it's all so subjective as he has his own business and makes a lot of money but an ever changing amount.

Hope things continue to go well with your g/f. I hope your "hot" date was fun. Take care.

[color:"red"] [/color] Trusting Him,
I hope you are doing well. I'll have to e-mail you and the others with more details as I tend to lose everything here.

[color:"green"] [/color] Petvet,
I can totally relate to the frustration of this board. I really haven't been able to get into it since they've changed the format. If you want to be part of the e-mails, just give me your address and I'll write you that way too.

Hope you survived tax season allright. How are you and Buddy doing?

[color:"purple"] [/color] Hope everyone has a great week. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers as I enter this new phase of life. So many emotions.... Its funny how I thought most of the tears were behind me. They're not. I will keep placing my hope in God and moving forward... Thanks for all your help in this journey!

[color:"red"] Leah [/color]
You said:

Quote

H feels I am getting a wonderful deal. I feel he's making out very well. So hopefully, we've struck the right balance

That's the way they say it's *supposed* to feel...if one of you felt it was great, then that person probably took advantage of the other. In real negotiations, both parties should feel a little bit "put out". So it is quite probable that you have done well! And don't forget, your emotional well-being counts for a WHOLE lot too.

I had to laugh at your first statement about "beating the clock". You must have done well in school, LOL.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /><--rosy from the sun, not embarrassment! If they had a fat face, I'd post it too, cuz I've been eating fudge all day!

Hey All,

'I was lost and now I'm found" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

This new forum has been a pain to get into without much work!

I couldn't sign in and I called and called until someone called me back and it was to do my password in all caps!!

Are there 2 tough love 2? Ok I'll be back later now that I somewhat know what I'm doing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

relady

Hey All,

Sometimes I can get in here, and most times I can't... but I'm working on it. I'm at work and I can never get in from here... but it must be my lucky day today.

[color:"red"]relady... [/color]

Glad to see you finally have made it back into MBers.

LOL... I know there are 2 each "Tough Love" Topics... and my guess is... is that Petvet did that probably because he couldn't find any other way to post on the board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just a guess though... but I'll bet I'm not to far off on that one.

[color:"red"]avondale... [/color]

Sitting on the beach eating fudge huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Enjoy! but don't eat too much fudge. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]Leah... [/color]

I agree with what avondale posted.

If your both comfortable with what has been worked out... then that makes things much easier for both of you.

When you stated that your "H" is happy with the arrangement though... I would take a closer look at it... I don't think anyone should be "Happy" with any arrangements worked out. Satisfied maybe... but "happy", that gives me cause for pause when I hear that.

Don't rush into this to quick... take your time, and make sure that you have looked at every avenue possible that could possibly cause you problems on down the road.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I've seen people regret many of the decisions they made, after it was all said and done with.

[color:"red"]Petvet, Trusting Him and everyone else... [/color]

I know it's been a real work out to try to get in here and post for some of us... don't give up, keep trying... we will be here when you finally are able to post.

Hope everyone has a very good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Leah--

I feel like such a trespasser on this thread because I'm a stranger here. I was hoping to hear from you but since I didn't, I looked for you and found you here in "divorcing". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> So I'm just dropping in to say hi and that I'm still praying for you and your situation. It looks like you're getting some good support and advice here.

There was one thing that I was concerned about when reading about your agreement with your H. I see that custody has been a sticky issue but have you put anything in there about your H not having any "honeys" staying overnight when your girls are there? I know that if my H and I had split, this would be huge with me. Perhaps the folks here may have some advice about that?

And about your H thinking that you're getting a "great deal" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> grrrr. Maybe I still have too much anger about what could have happened to me, but what a sorry thing for him to say. The two of you entered into marriage and structured your lives around being a team--which included you not being in the workforce so that your could raise your kids--and now it leaves you with no livlihood and still with 2 kids to raise. Nobody gets a "great deal" here--financially or otherwise. Maybe he's just saying that to be manipulative and attempt to convince you of that. I really hope that you and your lawyer will be able to get out of this what you need.

Hugs to you, Leah. May God grant you peace through this awful time. I'm really hoping for the best for you and your girls.

Quote

Congrats on your tax situation! Any more news on your daughter coming to live with you? Does that mean you'll have to go to court to change custody or financial arrangements?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Let's just say the conversation about daughter coming to stay with me went south. I pray that I am sane enough to rationaly say what is on my mind.

I went to the house today as it is the son's birthday. I was to take him shopping for his Birthday gift and out to supper. He made an early trip to the lake to fish and was not at the house when I got there.

Daughter comes out to the car as I'm preparing to leave and begins to talk to me.

Mom says that that she does not want me to come and stay with you. She told me that I needed to be here for my brother and sister.

Did Mom give you an opportunity to explain why you wanted to stay with me. "Not really. She just said that she did not want me to go."

What do you want to do? "I want to stay with you Daddy."

She tells me that I listen to her. That it was either me or my sister who explains things to her about her body, how's she's growing, why she's growing and waht nots.

I tell her that I am falttered taht she want to stay with me but unless Mom agrees it could become a heated battle. Are you prepared to talk to a Judge if necesary? She replies tht she would rather not if she does not have too.

Well, I would like to think that your mother and I could discuss it as mature adults and work something out for you.

I go in and ask the former if we can talk. After a few minutes she cmes out and it goes downhill from there. She tells me that I must be forcing this on daughter because she never tells me anything about this (Duh! and you think she would. Her biggest complaint to me is tht Mommy never listens to her) She goes on to tell me that I am stupid for even allowing this to happen and that I should be encouraging her to stay at home where she belongs.

I maintained my composure the best I could and explained to her exactly the time frame and responses from our daughter. Former wants to hear them from daughter and not me. I explain that it would be better if we could agree without having to amake daughter feel as if she is choosing between one or the other. That we as adults need to understand that the divorce has put our children in a position where this could happen. It has nothing to do with either me or you being a better or wore parent but simply our children expressing their desires. She then tells me that in Alabama the age of decision is 18 and that when daughter turns 18 she can go and stay whereever she wants. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Inside we go and I softy and polietly lay out some ground rules for our daughter, explaining that neither Mom nor I will be upset and that she is free to speak the truth. Mom ask her, rather demands why she wants to stay with me.

Daughter's first response is an example of where she had asked Mom to help her with some curtains and sewing. She told Mom that all she ever got from her was "I'm busy" "Can't you see I'm on the phone". I asked if I could use the sewing machine nd all you told me was that you did not have time, I would tear it up and the you would get right back on the phone.

Mom then justified or explained why she said or did what she did. In a loud voice and poor daughter just brust out in tears. The words "Daughter, you can speak the truth without fear of eaither of us geting angry" never entered into the formers mind I guess.

Needless to say it went south from there. I was told I should be ashamed for runing son's birthday. (Son and I still went shopping, went out to eat and then fishing. We had a good time doing all three and that was exactly what we had planned to do). I was told that I was stupid and that she was sick and tired of me forcing these things on the children. If they were that concerned then they would be telling her the same things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> If daughter wants to stay with you she can come when she turns 18.

Daughter was laying her head in my lap and crying during all of that. Yes, she did get up and go to her mother when son and I left which I thought was good of and for her.

Needless to say, this was not waht I wanted but it was exactly what I expected.

TRUSTING HIM,

Sorry things went the way they did. What will you do now? Is it true that they have to wait till their `18 in Alabama?

I think it is very sad that your daughter has been put in this position by your former. I hope and pray things improve. I saw your other thread. I'll have to read that too. God bless you and your family.

DAMSELFLY,

Thanks so much for writing. Please don't worry about being an intruder. It was very kind of you to check up on me.

I have thought about the girlfriend factor and will ask that that be part of our agreement. If you've read here on this thread, you'd see that some of the folks here have had to deal with that very issue. It's good to be prepared for that. The idea of that is so sad to me, as is all this divorce stuff.

I've thought about giving a update on the recovery thread but haven't known whether people I've written to in the past are even there anymore. With the change of boards, I'm not always successful getting my thoughts posted.

Anyhow, I'm hanging in there. I'm still looking to the Lord for guidance and direction. He is my Hope!

HI RELADY, PETVET, WAllACE, and AVONDALE,
Between e-mails and different forums, I sometimes forget what I write where, so please forgive me if I'm redundent.
Husband is suppose to move out sometime by the beginning of summer. He wants to purchase a new home. If it must come to a divorce, I am hoping that he will follow through with our agreement.

Sometimes, I think it is a bit too easy for him to continue living here. He likes this set-up, a housekeeper, laundress,cook and total freedom. I think he has always enjoyed the practical side of the marriage arrangements. He just doesn't wish to be committed to the other aspects of marriage. Anyhow, I'll continue writing here for encouragement and advice.

I dare not write more for fear of the "Poof" factor. Smile.

Leah,
You wrote:

Quote

Sometimes, I think it is a bit too easy for him to continue living here. He likes this set-up, a housekeeper, laundress,cook and total freedom. I think he has always enjoyed the practical side of the marriage arrangements

Why make it so easy? I wonder, once the papers are done, do you HAVE to do his laundry and cook for him? Is doing so keeping up a pretense for the kids (or yourselves)? Is that good or harmful? Are y'all sleeping in the same room? I hope you're not picking up after him if he's already sleeping in another room.

Hey All,

Just thought I would drop in and say hi, while I'm doing yard work.

[color:"red"]Leah... [/color]

As always... I agree with what avondale posted.

If he doesn't straighten out... let his G/F do everything for him, or let him fend for himself. Let her have a taste what what's awaiting her.

[color:"red"]Tusting Him... [/color]

Your former appears to be a controller IMHO based on what I got out of your post.

18 is the Age of Imancipation (sp?) in most States. I don't know the laws in your State... but I would look them up. I many States I believe the child can decide on their own where they want to live by age 14. I'm not an attorney, but I would look that one up, if yourdaughter truly wants to live with you.

[color:"red"]Petvet... [/color]

I see your struggling like I am to get in here... but it is getting easier for me when I am at home.

Read what Tempest posted... use all caps on your password, and hopefully that might help.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Quote

18 is the Age of Imancipation (sp?) in most States. I don't know the laws in your State... but I would look them up. I many States I believe the child can decide on their own where they want to live by age 14. I

Very true. My former I have learned more so in the last two years IS a Controller, to the n'th degree. She uses statements like that when it is in her favor.

What does the law really say. !8 is correct BUT at age 14 a HUGE weight is given to the person asking to change homes. Unless the former and I can agree to a custody change then we have to go to court. During that court session our daughter would talk to the Judge and base his decision on what she tells him. I would have hoped that she and I could have done this uncontested, it appears not.

Funny thing is, Thursday is my normal day to get the children that week. The former had checked our daughter out of school early and took her shopping. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> In the two years I've been out of the house this has never happened. Our daughters biggest complaint was that Mommy never had any time for her.

So...the good thing from this may be that Mommy see just how important time with our daughter is.

Now, the mean sidde of me wants to tell her "The law says that any children under the age of 13 will not be left alone at home." Or just go ahead and go back to court and see about custody of all three.

Hi Everyone,

Avondale,

The agreement is that after the papers are officially drawn up, he will leave. I had intended to continue to cook, clean, and do his laundry up to that point. I feel to try to do differently, at this time, would only cause more difficulty. The girls would think I was being mean to their dad. H would be angry and most likely retailitory in his actions.

But, I do need to LET Go emotionally. That is the part I'm really working on now. This is a huge thing for me to do. H's presence is very powerful, whether that presence is positive or negative. He is very influential to everyone around him. He isn't easily ignored and he hates to be ignored. So I try to remain respectful yet removed, a tricky balance at times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

He definitely keeps sending me mixed signals as to whether or not he is going to pursue this divorce.
For example, he left on a trip this morning and has called twice just to chat. Everything in me wants to really talk to him, yet I guess I should try to keep my coments brief. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

HI WALLACE,PETVET, TRUSTING HIM and RELADY,
Hope all of you are enjoying a happy weekend! [color:"blue"] [/color]

[color:"red"]Leah [/color] -Given what you've said, I think you're on the right course. There's no need to rock the boat at this point. But if he doesn't move any more towards having the papers drawn up, that will put you in yet ANOTHER awkward position of what to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]Me [/color] - I have a family reunion this weekend out of state which I need to go to (haven't gone in 5-6 years and a few of the older relatives are in poor health). I am NOT looking forward to this because I am the only one living out of state (so they see each other a little more frequently) but mainly I don't want to have to explain where H is and the whole D situation. This is one time when I hope the gossips have been working in advance of my arrival so perhaps I won't have to explain so often. Kids are going which I hope will help. Still, I woke this morning with this kind of "dread".

How is everyone else doing? [color:"red"] Petvet [/color] , I sure hope you see this thread and can post!

I'm really beginning to wonder if he'll move. Last night when we were talking on the phone, he said he didn't have time to go to the lawyer or time to look for a new place. He laughingly said "I guess we'll have to stay married by default" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

So... if he doesn't move, that puts me right back to square one. I feel a big part of the equation is whether or not there is anything going on between him and his assistant. If he really is innocent, I'm willing to stay. If not, I obviously need for him to leave.

I don't know if I've just been paranoid about the whole thing. I'm really questioning my judgement about the situation. Have I just read into an innocent relationship that is truly just a working relationship? After trust has been destroyed, it is so hard to discern truth. I need prayers to be able to do that.

Thanks for any words of wisdom about this. Hope you all have a good week.

Hi All.

Well YD's B-day was yesterday... and it's been pretty busy as usual.

[color:"red"]Leah... [/color]

I've seen this all before... but if you don't want to rock the boat... then go along with it and see how it plays out. Hopefully it will have a happier ending than all of the other people I've known go through this... including myself.

[color:"red"]avondale... [/color]

Family reunion huh?

I don't envy you on that one... but hopefully you will have a good time while your there. I'm suppose to go to one this summer... but I haven't decided if I'm going yet or not.

[color:"blue"]Me... [/color]

Well things are getting interesting over here.

My OD is now engaged to be "M". She is currently living with this guy (dated for four), and has been for the past 2 years.

They plan on getting "M" next May or June of next year... and she asked me if I would come. I haven't committed to anything as of yet. The main reason being... is I don't want to be in the same building, room, or anything thereof with her Mother there. I haven't seen nor spoken to her Mother in over 3 years now... and I would just as soon keep it that way.

She told me that she was not inviting her Mother to the wedding... but I'm not so sure of that.

So my question is... Do you think I should by-pass going to their wedding?

The reason I ask this... is that if her Mother shows up there... I would not be happy about it... and I would immediately leave... regardless of what may be going on.

Nothing will change my mind about what I just stated... as I'm not in the mood for any type of having the whole family get together... that ended when I divorced my eXW. I vowed I would never have anything to do with myexW ever again.

I have not forgiven my exW, for all she has done... mainly because I'm still dealing with a lot of what she left me stuck with. I may never forgive her for it... I've tried... but it just keeps coming. I would list some of the stuff I'm dealing with right now from her... but it would be a very long post.

[color:"red"]Petvet... [/color]

Keep trying... your getting it.

You will be back here in no time.

Hope every has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"red"] Leah [/color]
I think you're right, my fear is that you'll be back where you started. And in order to find out if anything is going on with his assistant, you're probably going to have to take specific action (i.e.,snoop) to confirm your suspicions. Are you ready to do that?

Bottom line: You are NOT paranoid. Your H is disrespectful of basic marital courtesy <--just coined that phrase! Your judgment IS sound. Have you thought of hiring a P.I.? Is there an update to your situation since you last posted?

Hi all! I hope I am in the right place. Lord knows I have been trying.

Avondale: Thanks for your post to get me in the right place. At least, I hope I am in the right place. At your family reunion, I would not volunteer any info about your D. Just play dumb!

Wallace: Interesting about your OD's birthday, my birthday was on Sunday. I cannot blame you for not wanting to be in the same room as your former, but I think you don't want to go to the wedding because of your OD living situation. You don't approve of it, and you may not want to give it any legitimacy. You may have to swallow you gut if you want to ever see your grand kids. Not showing up at the wedding is a big deal that will send a big message. Don't let your former get an even more upper hand on you with the OD.

Trusting: What are the "papers" referring to? D papers?

Hi Leah!

Me: Tax season over! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Got annulment! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />Looking to future! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Later!

Yippee!!! [color:"red"] Petvet [/color] is here!!! What's in your future? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Wallace [/color] - You and I cross-posted. I think Petvet is right, how much of your reluctance has to do with your ExW and how much has to do with your OD's living with the guy after you told her you disapproved? Now I'm sure you are familiar with the parable of the Prodigal Son...and since you and I both have older kids, I'm probably not saying anything new here. But my personal take is this:
You should go to the wedding even if your ExW is there. I know it will be difficult. You are the one who has EVERY reason to hold your head high and let HER be the uncomfortable one. [color:"purple"] But the wedding isn't about you (and your feelings), it's about your OD's big day. [/color] If you don't go, that very fact is what your OD and your other kids will remember. Also, isn't it better that she's getting married than living with the guy? After all, they have lived together for 2 years. Maybe the marriage WILL work after all. But I really think you should go, regardless of whether your ExW is there or not. If you don't go, there is no way to undo that after the wedding date is passed.

[color:"red"] Trusting [/color] - You said:

Quote

So...the good thing from this may be that Mommy see just how important time with our daughter is.

It takes an unselfish man to recognize that. Good for you!

Amen to what PetVet and Avondale said. If you don't go you can be rest assured that it will be remembered for a very long time.

She's still your daughter and she needs/wants you there for her BIG day.

~~~~~~~~

[color:"blue"] Petvet[/color] I tried to remember about "papers" but could not recall. Was there a particular place where I can go and read again. (or just bury my head in the sand <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )

Hi All,

[color:"red"]Petvet... [/color]

I'm glad to see you made it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was wondering about the "Tough Love" thread scenario when I saw two of them there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thank goodness [color:"red"]avondale [/color] dialed into what I was starting to suspect... that you couldn't find the real thread.

Well glad your back and thanks for the advice on my OD.

In fact thank you all for your great advice.

I'm pretty stubborn once my mind is made up... but with your responses... I decided to change it... I'm going to go.

You are all correct... I shouldn't feel the way that I do.

I'm going to tell my OD that I will go... but I really do not want to see her Mother there.

She said that she is not inviting her Mother (I hope she doesn't... because I think it will ruin everyone's spirits), and if she does... I don't think I can sit in the same room with her and her new "H". It will take everything I have to just sit there and not make my presents known.

I have eaten a lot of dirt because of those two people.

As I have stated... I'm not in any big hurry for any family get togethers that would include their Mother.

Well I hope everyone is having a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"red"] Wallace [/color] - I'm glad you changed your mind. I didn't realize (or forgot) your ExW had remarried. I'm guessing you will be able to bring a date; would it help you by having your G/F there too (or would that be too much to deal with)?

A lot can (and will) happen with your OD during the next year of their engagement, and all this worry might be for nothing. They could break up, elope, etc...You just need to decide how much (if any) $$ you want to help her with for the wedding. Perhaps her mother would like to share the cost or something?? Or maybe your daughter wants to have a simple ceremony. Either way, your involvement to some degree is the right thing to do.

Hi avondale,

Yep, my exW got remarried about (and I'm guessing) about a year ago. She married the Clown she was having an "A" with.

They have been living in a one bedroom apartment in Southeast Denver for at least a year now and counting. She "M" a real loser IMO, I heard through the grapevine that he was suppose to go to Jail, for embezzlement, but the woman he was with at the time decided to drop the charges, if he would stay with her. She dropped the charges, and my exW took off with him.
They will feed off each other before it's all said and done with... they both in fact deserve each other.

Your right... a lot can happen in one year! I was suppose to get "M" back in September of last year... but as you can see... I'm still single.

We are going to wait until all the kids are out of the house before we decide to take the plunge.

I'll probably take my G/F to the wedding if and when it happens. So hopefully you can see the picture that I'm trying to paint here. It has ugly written all over it... me with my G/F, and my exW there with her new "H", at my OD's wedding, who by her own admission can't stand her Mother.

It's not a very pretty sight... if your folloing me on this.

My exW on the other hand... would come...even if she was not invited, just to stir things up.

I'll probably get together with my OD, and her wedding plans, when they come up with an actual date.

How are you making out avondale?

Anything new on your family reunion?

Petvet gave you some good advice when you go... carry on like it's another day, and try not to even discuss what happened with anyone. That's easier said than done. lol

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone,

Hey, We're gaining... PETVET is back. Congratulations on all the happy news. Annulment done, tax season over and the future is looking bright! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Will there be wedding bells chiming soon? Keep us posted.

WALLACE,

I am so happy you are going to your daughters wedding. I think that is a very wise choice! It will only prove to be a positive move for you in your future. Not going would have left you open to negative speculation.

I would just determine NOT to let your ex-w spoil your daughter's big day. A lot of how you feel at that wedding will have to do with your perspective on things. You are a bigger person than your ex and all her rotton choices. Your daughter will be so glad to have you be a part of her day.

Just resolve that you will make it a good day whether or not ex-w shows up. I know that is easier said than done. But you can do it. We'll all be here to pray you through that situation. And as Avondale said, a lot can happen between now and then.

AVONDALE,

I'll be thinking of you and praying for you at this weekend's reunion. If anyone can handle the situation, you can. Again, keep the right thoughts and perspective and determine to make it a good day. (I'm continually having to give myself the same speach- so I know, easier said than done) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

ME,

Things at home have been pretty rough. Lots of tears, anger, frustration and hurt floating around. I guess that is all part of divorce. I keep working hard on letting go. I'm trying not to be influenced a lot by what H says positively or negatively. Once again, much easier said than done. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

H is still all over the place. Sometimes I feel sure he's going to leave then other times I feel the opposite. I am currently praying about whether I should be the one to take our agreement to the lawyer and have it written up.

There's a big part of me that wants it to be H that takes that step, seeings how it is his choice to end this marriage. But then, I guess that might just be a technicality. I know I don't want the misery to continue. I'm concerned that it might continue if H doesn't decide to take the papers to the lawyer.

Obviously, what I really want is a restored marriage but that doesn't look like it is going to happen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> So, it's just a matter of time before one of us makes a move. I just don't know whether I should be the one.

Hi TRUSTING HIM and RELADY,
Miss hearing from both of you. Hope you're doing okay.

Hope all of you enjoy a wonderful weekend!

This post of your's scares me a bit

I know that from our positions we sometimes feel that we are looking at out spouses through rose colored glasses but as I read more a lot of things seemed to pop out.

I have for a few years now felt that my former was co-dependant but could never really put a solid feeling to that. How related is co-dependency and narcissism?

Things like:

Things like them not being able to take personal responsibility for wrong doing.
They tend to twist and turn and manipulate every situation until it becomes your problem.
A Narcissist is not going to ever admit fault.
The more you talk with him, he will be able to convince you that everything is really your fault.
He is never wrong and will never admit that his actions were anywhere near as bad as yours.
The narcissist has a seriously and permanently impaired view of self and the rest of the world.
The narcissist is either very spoiled or very abused as a child.
The narcissist has no feelings of his/her own and no empathy for the feelings of others.
The narcissist cannot get enough positive attention for without it they cease to exist.

I may have mentioned it before but I remember once when I dropped off a huge load of clothes to a local shelter. On the form you had to fill out there was a place to check if you wanted a Thank You letter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I remember asking myself "Why would I want/need a Thank You letter for giving away stuff that I no longer needed or used."

It was then I remembered all the letters my former had gotten from the same shelter. Just a short form letter that said "Thank You" for your contribution.

Just rambling thoughts........

Hi Trusting Him,

I am not surprised to find you seeing narcissitic tendencise in your former. Many of the things you have mentioned about her sound way too familiar.

You ask about co-dependency and narcisisim. I'm not so sure you would typically find these two tendencies going together. In fact these traits tend to be quite different from each other. There are many people who would label me as co-dependent and my H as narcicisstic.

I think co-dependent individuals often can find themselves with narcicisstic people. The former tends to want to accomodate and please while the later tends to be very self-centered. The combination can be very unhealthy,as it has been in our marriage.

I have read much about my areas of weakness. In fact, I've been re-reading a book about boundaries in marriage. I've also read books on co-dependency and other such materials. I'm trying not to go on too great a guilt trip. I guess I tend to still wish I could have found some magical key to turn things around.

I need to just accept what has happened and look for ways to learn and grow through the process of this difficult time. It's very stretching.

I hope you are doing well Trusting Him. How are things at home? Is your son doing okay? How is your daughter with the whole custody issue? Have you made any decisions in regard to that? Hope you have a good weekend!

Hi y'all,
I survived the family reunion fine. It helped that daughter went so I didn't feel like I had a big "L" on my forehead (for loser!). I'm glad I went and it wasn't awkward (I think they already knew about our D since no one asked, thanks to my aunt.) So it was a good, but busy, weekend.

[color:"red"] Trusting [/color] - I get those notes from clothes donations simply for tax donation purposes. Perhaps that's why your former collected them?

[color:"red"] Leah [/color] - You have done a lot of research, I can tell. What's going on at your house now? Are you playing the waiting game? Have you ever considered making your H's life so miserable he'd go ahead and leave?

[color:"red"] Wallace [/color] - Anything more new with the OD wedding plans? Are you still with your GF?

[color:"red"] Petvet [/color] - You didn't answer the question about your plans - is there anything like a wedding in YOUR future? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Relady [/color] - How's the online store going? We miss your posts!

[color:"red"] Everyone else [/color] - Hope you have a great week.

Hi Avondale,

I'm so glad you enjoyed your weekend! I thought of you several times and prayed for you. It's nice to know there are happy family times even after divorce.

You ask how things are at home.... ever changing. Sometimes things are very good. If someone would ever drop in they'd think we're a perfectly happy family, sitting around having dinner together and playing games. But then things can dramatically change the next day. Things become very tense and sad for everyone.

Thursday, I ended up speaking to H and his assistant together. I went to the office after hours not knowing who I'd find. Well, they were sitting in his truck together talking. Apparently they just returned from another day trip. Long story short, lets just say it did not go well. It was a hurtful yet clarifying moment.

They were both highly defensive and cold regarding my feelings about their relationship. The last thing H said was, "This is no concern of yours anymore as I'm divorcing you."

Since then, he went to see a lawyer and we have once again been working on detailing our agreeement. I have an apointment to see my lawyer with our written agreement. H will be moving out in the beginning of June.

Wow, talk about a range of emotion. Such sadness and regret that it has come to this. Yet, I prayed for resolution this year. God has answered my prayers, just not in the way I had hoped. I need to let go and give it all to God.

I'm still struggling with acceptance of this. I'm so sad to think I'll only see my girls half the time. It's so difficult to accept our marriage is over. Yet, I must. Please keep praying for me to be able to do this. Thanks again for your friendship!

HI AND THANK YOU TO ALL MY OTHER FRIENDS ON THE TOUGH LOVE THREAD. Its encouraging to see you all surviving divorce and going on to find happiness. God bless you all with a good week!

Leah,

I'm sad to hear this sad turn of events. I'd like to reiterate to you that you need a forensic accountant to go through the finances.....your husband has kept your finances from you for so long that you'll have no way of knowing what is fair or is not. Please do not sell yourself short. Make sure that money for training/education is part of the spousal support so that you can get back into the work force by the time you need to support yourself.

hugs!!!

[color:"red"] Leah [/color] ,
It will take a while to accept this, and knowing you and your background, you may have that "Divine commitment" feeling for a very long time (as I still do). Star*fish made an excellent point. If your H has a problem with a forensic accountant going through his books, make sure he knows it's something your lawyer mandated and not you. What is your current understanding of your possible custody arrangements?

Hi All,

Sorry I haven't posted in awhile... I got a lot going on at least for the next two weeks.

[color:"red"]avondale... [/color]

Glad to hear that your family reunion went well.

I had to chuckle about you having a Big L stamped on your forehead... that was a good one. I can relate to that feeling... even though we in fact came out just fine. Well, I might be exaggerating that a t bit... we are doing O.K..

[color:"red"]Leah... [/color]

After what you just posted... I would have my lawyers drawing up papers so fast... and considering all that he has put you through.

I've become very hardcore since going through my "D". I promised myself that I would never put up with what I put up with my exW, or with anyone else for that matter ever again.

Don't get me wrong... I'm very much Pro-Marriage, but I'm not for a one sided marriage where one person is living married, and the other is living single.

As sorry as I am to say this... you need to call it a day with your "H".

As [color:"red"]Star*fish and avondale [/color] stated...
get a forensic accountant, and have both he and your lawyer go through everything.

it's rough going through what you have been going through... and it's probably going to get somewhat worse for awhile while your going through all of this... but as many have stated... including myself... it does get better in time.

It will never be the same though... and yes... there is a huge adjustment to make. After awhile... the dust does settle... and you pick the pieces up of what use to be... and you carry on with your life from there.

It was the toughest thing I ever had to do in my life time... nothing will probably come close except something happening to my kids... but I don't want to even go there.

IMHO, I think it would be best for you and the rest of the family... to call it a day.

My prayers are with you Leah, and we will stand behind you no matter what you decide.

[color:"red"]Petvet,Trusting Him, relady, and all that I have missed... [/color]

Hope your all doing well... and relady... let us know how your making out when you get time.

[color:"blue"]Me... [/color]

My G/F and I are doing well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I know... I'm finding it hard to believe as well... but we are doing just fine for the time being.

OD went to Cancun for a week with her B/F, and my YD got a B-day card from her Mother after 3 years of no contact whatsoever a few day ago... that was a surprise.

Well I hope everyone has agreat day and a good week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all! I was able to make it again.

Avondale: I'm glad the family reunion went well. As you adjust to your new life; you will not be so embarrass to admit that you are single again. Normally that happens after you have a new beau which will not be too far in the distant future.

Leah: Forensic Accountant? Is someone hiding dough? Did you and you H file joint tax returns? Do you have his W2s or 1099s? I hate to say this, but if he is able to hide dough from you, you guys have been really living separate lives lately. If he is thinking mine and yours already, you guys' marriage is in deep trouble.

Wallace: Why is your OD scheduling a wedding so far ahead? Does she have a ring? One year ahead is kinda suspect. It sounds like someone was pressured. What do you think?

Trusting: I gladly take those thank you forms with the amount of donations. Tax deductions!!!!! I'm amaze how many people donate things and don't keep record of it. It's all about the paperwork.

Me: Just a cruising. Date? Like in wedding date? Possible. Someone recently told me that the ball is in my court. Hmmmmmm. I tried to hit the ball back, but the ball hit a wall and came back. Time will tell. Question? Why do we have to go on a link to get to this thread? I'm a little baffle.

Later.

HI EVERYONE,

Hope you all had a good week and are looking forward to a nice weekend. I'm happy its Friday. My oldest daughter and I are going to go out for dinner and a movie tonite. I'm treasuring each moment with them as I know things are soon to change. I can already see where having them so much less will make the time with them so much more precious.

My appointment with the lawyer is in a couple of weeks. He's a busy man, so appointments with him don't come easy. I guess that's a good sign. We will review the agreement that H and I have come up with. If there are no major discrepancies then, we'll sign it and H will move out.

It still doesn't seem quite possible that it has come to this. I asked my H if he could believe that we were getting a divorce. He jokingly said, "If you could keep being nice there wouldn't be a need for divorce" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The problem is that it's only half a joke in his mind. Unfortunately, his definition of "nice" is to accept whatever he does without question, basically to live with zero expectations and if I have any I should be able to live without expressing them. This is obviously something I havent had much success doing. Oh well.... life goes on.

In the words of PETVET's priest, "It is what it is" I'm doing better about accepting what is. I'm trying to look on the positive side of everything around me. That makes a huge difference.

About the finances, I am content with what we have come up with, even if it's not the maximum amount I could get if we were to go to court. The girls will be well taken care of and my needs will be met. I am not interested in a big battle with foresic accountants, lawyers, court and all. The peace factor is too valuable to me. I much rather have less monetarily and have more peace in my life and heart.

Hope you all enjoy a great weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Can anyone join this thread? Or just for insiders?

My "credentials" are I am transitioning from married to divorced AND more importantly (since there are so many dog people here) I'm a dog owner/trainer/exhibitor/agility judge.

I have been reading this thread, and can't say I know what it's about. But, that's what makes it appealing! Sometimes it's fun to just kick back and not take things so seriously.

Anyone can join and sorry to hear about the transition from married to divorce. It's a trip I wish no one had to take.

There is a read only version of "Tough Love" that somehow got corrupted so the true meaning of it is probably lost in there somewhere. The original concept or thread was based on James Dobson's book "Love Must Be Tough" and it's principals. To a degree it still attempts to follow those principals, we just tend to get side-tracked at times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So.....Welcome to "Tough Love 2" the reincarnation of Tough Love.

Quote

"If you could keep being nice there wouldn't be a need for divorce"

And you answered it yourself, talk about self-awareness! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Quote

Unfortunately, his definition of "nice" is to accept whatever he does without question, basically to live with zero expectations and if I have any I should be able to live without expressing them.

That my dear is NOT a marraige. It sure sounds as if we married the same type people.

Thanks - sounds like I have some reading to do!

Hey All,

Well I have been out of commision for a while.

Gotta broken ankle, and a broken index finger... so it's a little awkward to type for the time being. I had a freak accident with my lawn mower of all things. I never realized the amount of damage they can inflict... and I didn't have my hand under the lawn mower... it wasn't even running at the time.

So this is going to be a short post.

Leah...

Has your husband seen a Doctor, because he sure sounds like he's Bi-Polar based on your last post.

Deja Vue...

This thread is open to anyone who wants to participate in it.

We like to stick with MBer's type topics, and/or "Tough Love" situations where they pertain.

Petvet...

In regards to my OD and why they are waiting until next year? I can't answer that one.

I saw a wedding ring on her finger when she was over here last. She said he paid $5,000.00 plus for it, but that's about all I can tell you.

They went to Cancun during this past week, and are still there until Monday... aside from that... I really don't pay much attention... I try to ignore it, because I don't approve of the way they have gone about this whole deal.

In regards to you however... it sounds like you might be going down the aisle yourself... correct me if I'm wrong.

Trusting Him...

I have to say... that after awhile... all WS's start sounding and acting alike.

That's scary when you think about it.

I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Welcome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The original thread is here: Tough Love . Petvet started it 3 1/2 years ago. If you want to read, start there with the first few days' worth of posts, and then read the last month or so (to get caught up with who is currently still posting here). The Tough Love philosophy is similar to Dr. Harley's "Plan A & B" here. What is your history/background? I've seen some of your posts but can't recall your specific story.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I am so sorry! This must lawn mower accident have been a freak thing! I'm glad the lawnmower wasn't running, it could have been much worse with long-lasting injuries.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - Thanks for the update. You are right; only do what you can handle emotionally. It sounds like your H still wants some type of joint custody situation. Is that right?

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - How are you doing? Anything new with your custody situation? What happens in the summer with your kids?

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - We have great weather forecasted and I'm out the door to begin some serious yardwork. Have a great weekend.

hi [color:"blue"] Petvet, Relady, and anyone else. [/color]

Here's my story:

Married almost 20 years. No kids. Several dogs and shared hobby/business in training and showing dogs. Both of us went back to school and finished degrees; both of us have had ups and downs with careers, but are basically in the same profession and both work in the public sector.

Last fall my H decided he didn't want a future with me, that I wasn't meeting his needs, and it was not open to discussion. Needs he could not really articulate to either me or any of our close friends. His life was not turning out the way he wanted it to, and our relationship was not turning out to be the one he wanted. He wanted to start over and didn't want me to be part of that.

This was the second D-Day - the first one I thought we had weathered and were working things out. I was wrong. Our MC and my IC both saw that he was not participating in working things out, but that he had decided it was all my fault and the effort had to be all mine. I had to prove something to him before he would engage. I thought they were wrong, and just didn't see it at the time.

H later informed me I had duped him during the supposed working things out period, and he should have left me the first time. And that he wouldn't fall for it again. I could see the setup coming - that even if he changed his mind and agreed to work on it again, I would be blamed for anything that went wrong (in his mind). So I decided not to fight it. I realized I could not afford or maintain the house we were living in, plus it was a long way from where I work, so I bought myself a house and moved out. We have since divided up everything - $$, property, etc. Not filed the D yet, but he is pushing me now to get that paperwork done.

Quite frankly I was totally worn out from almost 20 years of feeling like everything was about him. Early in the M, we spent most weekends in incredibly stressful situations dealing with his dysfunctional family. Also his drugs and alcohol use, his unemployment, his (unending) needs, and me paying all the bills for the first few years, yada yada yada. I simply had/have no will or means to continue and want nothing now but peace. He was truly a high maintenance spouse. He also took no responsibilitiy for anything for quite some time, not financially, not fixing things in the home and certainly not paying for any repairs. He would break down in tears when he messed up his finances and I had to bail him out. (This was in the first year of our M.) He was very angry anytime I would bring up this stressful subject and made my life miserable when I did. I was supposed to bail him out and cover for him, but not ever confront him because it hurt his feelings. His family had always told him he was irresponsible, and I was supposed to understand that he was sensitive to this and not pour salt into those old wounds. So instead I was supposed to let him be irresponsible at my expense so he wouldn't have to face it. What a mistake I made in buying into that.

For many years I felt like I had an adult child instead of a husband - but I couldn't bring this up either because anything that sounded like I was calling him irresponsible was NOT OK. Even now, he still assumes everything I say is about him, or is an attack on him. He takes things personally that have nothing to do with him - I don't even LIVE with him or interact with him except to deal with legal or financial details.

Even this fall - as we were trying to split up our assets, he tried to dump HIS refinancing paperwork on me - saying how he couldn't find this info or that info, to which I said, "gee that's too bad. Call the accountant and get copies."

Another example - though he promised to do it, he couldn't get the taxes together back in Jan when I started begging him to do so (all the paperwork had been mailed to his house and I had no paperwork). Irresponsible again - never doing what he said he'd do, getting mad at me when he felt overcommitted, and even madder if I went ahead and did things myself that he failed to follow up on. When he finally got the tax stuff to me - on April 11 - it was far from complete, full of gaps, and I had to spend an entire day trying to complete what was supposed to have been done. Then when he ended up owing several thousand $$ he was mad at me for not sharing that cost with him. Duh! Maybe if he'd gotten it done sooner we could have had the accountant try some different ways of calculating the returns, but NOT with only 4 days to go for filing.

Back when he finally decided he wanted to be a participant in the financial end of our M, he was mad that I didn't pick up on this and accept that he had changed. He wanted me to combine my assets with his - but there was no way I trusted him to make good financial decisions or even keep track of what he owed, what he was spending, etc. For my comfort levels, he had not changed. I didn't trust him then and still wouldn't now based on anything I've seen about his ability to plan or manage $$. It was always my job to take care of finances, mortgage applications, taxes, you name it. Just because he wanted to be responsible didn't make it realistic.

He also thought all my assets should become marital property and resented anything I spent on myself over the years. However, we had a prenup, as I had $$ from a personal injury settlement that was supposed to pay for future surgery and living expenses (well, guess what happened to most of that $$?) He now says I got more out of the house than he ever will - well DUH! As I should - the downpayment was MY money, all the household furnishings bought during the first 5+ years of our M were totally from my savings and insurance money. I left the M with my original downpayment, my bills paid, and $15K to buy furniture and set up a new household from scratch. And a house worth less than half what his is worth, with less possibility of appreciation. Before I met him, I had $$ and was a homeowner - and he had nothing, and I mean NOTHING. Now, almost all of my $$ is gone - spent on our relationship and/or home, but he still thinks all the "joint" property should belong half to him. In his mind, he contributed 50% or more to the M, and in my opinion that was only true for the last 2-3 years of our almost 20 year marriage.

All this sounds like I'm without fault, and I'm sure that's not the case. However, from what close mutual friends have told me - he had expectations that I was going to save him from the life he had. Initially that worked - his life improved. He got away from his familiy, and married into $$ to some extent. He finished his college degree, and moved up the corporate ladder (from being a bus driver when I met him). Then, from what his friends have said, when things were still not right in his life, he began to blame me because I was supposed to have fixed his life. He grew to resent me for what I still had that he had not been able to achieve. He wanted me to think of him as a husband when in fact he was still treating me like I was his mother.

This feedback comes from the assessment of close mutual friends (who talked to both of us, with both of our knowledge that these discussions were happening). The feedback was without me saying a SINGLE word about what happened between us. And it actually makes more sense than anything else I could come up with. It explains why he said I wasn't the kind of person who could meet his needs, but he couldn't explain what they were or why I couldn't meet them. I now think he's right - I can't, and won't, try any longer to meet his needs as I understand them.

I'm now working on fixing me - figuring out where his boundaries crossed mine and muddied the waters for me. Why I couldn't see clearly, and therefore couldn't make good decisions. How I could have (or could I have?) done anything to deal with the imbalance in responsibility in our M. My feeling now is that I probably should have left the M in the first couple of years. I no longer think that, with his insecurities and emotional needs, he is mature or emotionally strong enough for what I need in a spouse. My mistakes may have been sticking my head in the sand, avoiding conflicts and avoiding the truth, and redoubling my efforts when all hope was lost. (e.g., the definition of a fanatic!). During the last 2+ years, he frequently talked about not wanting to live, and being severely depressed. He was also angry and had a violent temper (since before we were married) - yet though I was afraid of his temper and so were our dogs, he never hit or hurt any of us. He did, however, smash holes in walls and break things. I think I was once again afraid to confront his demons - afraid they were about me or directed at me (probably my intuition told me this). So I conflict avoided.

On the plus side, H has a good side. There is a person inside trying to get out - the person he thinks he is and wants to be. And deep down admitted not being sure if that person is real, or if he made him up. I saw him today at the show and we talked briefly. He said some nice things to me, and showed some warmth towards me that I haven't felt in a while. I could easily cry over this again - I can't totally stop loving him, even though I don't WANT to love him anymore. So, I know I have to detach and move on, I know he's really bad for me - and I'm probably bad for him too. Still it's hard!

Sorry this is so long!

Hey All,

[color:"red"]avondale... [/color]

Where did you find the original "Tough Love" thread?

Glad to hear that your able to do yard work.

I wish I was able to at least mow my lawn... I have the worse looking yard in the neigborhood, because my mower is still down, and so am I. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm going to have to hire a lawn service to come in I think.

[color:"red"]Deja Vue... [/color]

Thanks for getting us up to speed on your sitch... and Welcome to the "Tough Love" thread.

Quote

by Deja Vue:

It explains why he said I wasn't the kind of person who could meet his needs, but he couldn't explain what they were or why I couldn't meet them. I now think he's right

By reading your post... it sounds to me like you were doing quite well in meeting his needs.

I have found in the past, and based on my last "M". When a "M" has gone south for whatever reason... you can never do enough to meet their needs, no matter how hard you try.

Well I hope everyone is doing well today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace -- thanks for the uplift!
Avondale -- thanks for the link to the old stuff, which I read parts of.

I also read some reviews of Love Must be Tough. Sounds like it is about how to be strong and maintain dignity in the face of relationship difficulties. It actually sounds similar to the Plan B approach. But that's just from reading a few reviews, and not the whole book.

Wallace -- I am in the same boat re: lawn mowing. We have a local "company" called Amazing Husband Handyman. I hired them before to just come out and fix a bunch of things while I was moving in and totally overwhelmed. I'm now trying to get them out to set up my lawnmower, show me how it works, and do the first mowing of the season for me. Now, if it would just stop raining long enough to actually mow the lawn!

Hi Everyone,

DEJA VU,

Hi and welcome to the Tough Love thread. Sorry about the difficulties in your marriage. It sounds as if you are working at the same thing I am... trying to let go and detach. Right now it is especially challenging because my H is still living with me.

I hope it soon stops raining and you can get outside and enjoy the sunshine and get your lawn mowed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WALLACE,

So sorry about your accident. How long will your recovery time be? Lawn mowers can be a dangerous piece of machinery. I hope you are healing well.

You ask about H being bi-polar. He hasn't been officially diagnosed but he certainly exhibits tendencies in that direction. His counselor told me he felt that was certainly a possibility. After I shared this info with H, he stopped going to see him. He absolutely refuses to be "labeled" and is very resistent to the idea of any meds.

I'm glad to hear you and GF are doing well. Hope the good times continue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

AVONDALE,

Hope you are doing well. It sounds like you've been busy working outside. I have done some of the same. I still have a long way to go. Keep looking up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You ask about custody... We will have joint custody. H will have them nearly half the time. But everything will be dependent on his work schedule. If he's gone, I'll be able to have them. So that is good.

TRUSTING HIM,

Yes, I think we did marry very similar people. How are things with you? Have you been seeing your children a lot? Are things with your former on a pretty even keel? Hope you are doing well. God bless!

HI PETVET and RELADY,

Hope things are going well for both of you. We'd love an update RELADY.

ME,

I'm hanging in there. Things are faily peaceful right now. Just waiting to get things all official with the lawyer. It still doesn't seem possible that it's really over. I don't think it will truly hit until H is gone.

Overall, I feel I have a peace about my life and what is happening. I'm trusting God with all of it. He will see me through.

Leah2B - it is really tough to be in the same house when you know it is over. My H and I did that from late Sept until mid Dec. I couldn't get out of there quick enough!

Hang in there - I'll be rooting for you!

Hi all!

Wallace: Ouch! Be careful with those lawnmowers. You may have to hire a lawn company in the interim to perform your yard duties until you get better physically.

Avondale: How are things with you? Give me an update?

Relady: Where are youuuuu?

Leah: Excuse the expression, but your H sounds like a smart -----. What kind of comment was he making with the "you are not nice"? His attitude sounds sounds like someone I use to be married to; my way or no way! Please make sure you get what you are due for you and the kids. The reason why I say this is later is too late. Make sure things are right now on the front end. Why are you concern about peace at this point? Why does it matter? If he is going to be out of your life except for the kids, why do you care whether if you guys are lovby dubby? Think are it!

Trusting: You are correct. Tough Love comes from the Dobson book.

Deja Vu: Yes, you have to work on yourself now after years of spouse tearing you down mentally and physically.

Me: I intend to get back into the groove of posting regularly. I have been busy with things. Life is going smooth.

Later.

Petvet - Good to hear from you - I thought you were a groovy guy already <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wallace - Don't think of yourself as being broken down! Don't you have a son who can mow the grass?

Deja Vu - Thanks for the history. Where are you (and your H) about filing for D? Will you wait for him to? It sounds like you have begun getting your act together as far as your living situation, etc. Not everyone is fortunate to be able to move out that easily. I know it's hard when you see your spouse in a public place, but fortunately I haven't had to deal with it yet. It's just a matter of time for me, I'm sure, since we live near each other.

Leah - I know you feel like a weight is hanging over you. It is so difficult living there with H knowing that he's going to leave. I had to do that for 3 months too. Have you said anything to the kids or are you waiting for school to end? How are they taking things?

Trusting - Haven't heard much from you. What's new? Any change in the custody situation?

Me - Nothing new, except I have mice in my linen closet. They kept me awake all night!

Avondale - here in MN you can fill out some forms and file them yourself. Apparently you don't even have to go to court. That's the route we're taking. H wanted me to drop everything and fill out my part, but I have other priorities that come first. Anyway, I'll get to it soon (it's really stressful, you know?) - we'll file the papers, and then some day it will be all over. As over as it can be.

Hi all!

Deja Vu: It is very stressful living with a spouse who you know does not want to be married to you anymore. The worst thing about a marriage that failing is the stress and disappointment.

Avondale: Mice? Even though I love animals, the little critters have to go. It's exterminator time.

Me: I am doing fine. I love the spring and summer.

Later.

Hey All!

I tried posting the other night, but for some reason it would just clear itself out, when I hit the back button.

Well I'm rolling again... in fact I got my lawn mowed (did it myself), and I have been working a good size side job (Plumbing) putting in an $80,000.00 plus bathroom for a friend of mine... you should see this bathroom. Not to shabby for a side job, if I must say so myself. I'll be done with it this weekened.

Update on my end:

G/F is back full tilt on the marriage thing again... she is looking at homes again. In fact she made an offer on one... but someone beat her to the punch and it already was under contract <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I thought that might slower her down a little... but it didn't, she's back at it again (looking for homes).

You know... it kinda turns me off when they are in such a hurry to get married. The more she pushes this whole thing... the more I pull away.

I think, I'm happy right where I am... and I need time, more time to get over all the wonderfulness I went through in my first marriage. I still haven't recovered from all that as of yet.

Well anyway... it's been pretty hectic for me these last several weeks.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Wallace: I'm glad you are back in the fix again. I did not know you were a plumber. You should ask your GF why is she looking for a house after there was an agreement to get married at a future date. You should tell her this turns you off.

Later.

Everyone is so quiet lately. I'm not sure if it's because the weather has gotten us out of our houses or what.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] , I agree with [color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] . Surely by now you've asked her point-blank why she's looking for a house after you both agreed to not do that. What is her response to that?
I knew you were a plumber, but an $80k (side cost) bathroom? Geez, what do they have that I don't have? Sauna? I cannot imagine that!

[color:"blue"]Leah [/color] - How are you doing? Call me this weekend if you want/need to <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - How are you doing?
[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - How are you doing?
[color:"blue"]Relady [/color] - How are you doing?

Hi All,

Petvet...

I have asked my G/F countless times, "Why are you looking for a house?" She states, because her house is to small, and she wants to get a bigger home. I asked her why? If her kids according to her are all going to be gone from the house within 2 years, what would be the logic behind buying a bigger home?

Personally I think she thinks that if she buys a big home, that I will want to get "M" and move in. I have already told her that it's not happening, I already have a decent size house.

We both agreed, that nothing is going to happen until all the kids are out on their own. She agrees with it, and then flips to the other direction after about 2 weeks, and wants to change everything back up again, and proceed to get "M".

I've told her, it's not happening from my end... which makes her very frustrated.

She say's " I don't think you ever want to get married again... and you know? She just might be right.

avondale...

This bathroom has everything you could possibly imagine in it. About the only thing that's not in it is a swimming pool, and it's almost big enough to put one of those into it as well.

The big cost of this whole thing (aside from what I'm charging for my time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) is the fixtures and the vanities and the sinks, tubs, whirlpools and how many they have and the quality of all of it. It is definitely high end goods. Just to give you an idea... one faucet cost a little over $3,000.00, that's just for one. They have four faucets for two double sink vanities.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Let us know how you are all making out when you get time.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hey Avondale, thanks for asking. Not the best week for me - lots of things going wrong that I can easily blame my X for. That's probably why I'm experiencing so much anger right now. Though I do not really blame him for the two weeks of solid rain!

On the upside, I hired someone to set up my new lawnmower and mow the lawn. While I was gritting my teeth about the cost, he came back to the house and said he'd broken my lawnmower and would have to get it fixed for me. All I can think now is what would I have done if it had broken when I was using it?

I know the answer! MELT DOWN....

Wallace - maybe your G/F would like to mow your lawn??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Deja said:

Quote

...and said he'd broken my lawnmower and would have to get it fixed for me. All I can think now is what would I have done if it had broken when I was using it?

[color:"blue"] Another scenario: It's quite possible that if YOU were mowing the grass, it wouldn't have broken!
But I'm enjoying having someone do all my lawn mowing too, with their mower so I don't have any headaches! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope everyone has a great weekend![/color]

Hi Everyone,

AVONDALE,

I've thought about you a lot this week and wanted to give you a call. So, I might just do that if I can connect with you when my girls and H aren't here.

It's been really difficult lately. I keep praying for brighter days ahead. You ask about the girls. They know what is happening, at least the older two do. I mentioned it to all three girls back quite awhile ago. YD was so upset that I haven't brought it up again. The older two seemed to understand and have asked questions and have talked about it some.

I'll be helping YD get through this later when H actually starts moving out. I thought I should let her finish school as peaceably as possible. She's been taking SOL tests all week- I don't want to rock her world till I have too. It makes me incredibly sad that she and the other girls will have to suffer through this mess too.

I hope you are doing well. I'll try to give you a buzz later. Hope you have a great weekend!

WALLACE,

Glad to hear you're up and about again. That's interesting to learn you're a plummer. I need one in two of my bathrooms, one leaky faucet and broken jets in the jacuzzi. But that all seems way down there on the priority list right now... Such tough times this divorcing stuff produces.

I don't blame you for being hesitant to get married again. I can see where one could use time to just heal and be free after going through the pain and heartache of divorce. I hope your g/f can let go of the push of marriage. She would probably have the opportunity of M much quicker if she didn't push it. Oh well, sometimes letting go can be a tough challenge- How well I can relate to that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

PETVET,

Thanks for the concern about getting what I need for the girls and I. I am still working to do that. I meet with the lawyer Tuesday. I am trying to find the balance of being wise yet not greedy. I feel I have a pretty workable plan at this point. We'll see if the lawyer agrees. It would be great to not go to court with this.

TRUSTING HIM, RELADY, AND DEJAVUE,

Hope all of you are doing well. Hope you have a great weekend! Please write when you can. God bless!

Quote

I mentioned it to all three girls back quite awhile ago. YD was so upset that I haven't brought it up again. The older two seemed to understand and have asked questions and have talked about it some.

I'll be helping YD get through this later when H actually starts moving out. I thought I should let her finish school as peaceably as possible. She's been taking SOL tests all week- I don't want to rock her world till I have too. It makes me incredibly sad that she and the other girls will have to suffer through this mess too.

Leah

Each child will react differently and also learn to handle or adapt in their own manner. Our youngest was 7 when we moved out. She was a huge asset to me as she acutally helped me move and unpack and arrange everything in my new place.

But she is more of a reader/writer than a talkative person. Her and I actually communicate better through letters and notes to each other. It seems that a letter from Daddy or a letter from her telling me about what hurts and makes her sad is much easier for her than trying to express it in actual words.

Our son? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> We are (at least I am) still trying to figure him out. He is very quite and reserved when it comes to anything that apppears to be confrontational. He clams up and crawls into his shell. It is only after I spend several (4 to 5) hours with him alone that he begins to open up and talk about little things. When you have three it is sometimes hard to give that one child that amount of time alone. Although I do try as often as possible. (Tomorrow I'm taking him fishing and we will be out ALL day).

The oldest daughter. For whatever reason she seems to have adapted quite well.

Just wanted to encourage and share what had worked with us/me. Please let them talk and express themselves as often as possible. It's a lot better than having then internalize it all and suffer later.

God Bless and still praying or those brighter days!

Hello All............

Just passing through and wanted to drop a line hello. Looks like everyone is doing well..I'll post a little later on how things been going...

Hey All,

This thread seems a little busy today... good to see everyone posting.

Dejavue...

lol, I don't think I would have much luck getting my G/F to mow my lawn... she doesn't even mow her own... she has an outside lawn service do hers.

That was nice of your X to tell you that he broke the lawn mower... I'll bet you were gritting your teeth after that.

They will do that to you at times... I know from first hand experience as well.

Leah...

((((( leah)))))

I know what your going through with the kids and how they each in fact handle it all differently.

Trusting Him is right... each one has their own way of dealing with what's going on.

This is a very important time, they need all the reassurance of what I call the safety factor in spite of all that is going on. They want to know that everything will turn ouut O.K., and that they will O.K. as well. Show them and give them all the love and attention that you can while going throough all this. IMHO, it will lessen the impact of it all to a degree, but it won't take away all the pain.

Trusting Him...

My kids all handled the "D" differently such as what it sounds like yours have done or are doing.

It is very hard to take a shattered family and try making them feel whole again. It takes time, and a lot of time IMHO, and it appears your taking that kinda of time.

Have fun fishing... I'm going up right after the Memorial Day holidays... get into a little quiet time.

Hey EC...

Good to hear from you... it's been awhile.

When you get time, let us know how your making out.

avondale...

There is no doubt in my mind that your yard probably looks great.

I may need to get some gardening tips from you if I ever get the time.

Petvet...

How are you and buddy making out these days?

Well I hope everyone has a great weekend... I have a side job to finish tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]EC [/color] - you are a booger, doing a "hit and run" type of post like that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> We've missed you a lot! Get back here and tell us what you've been up to!

Leah,

I feel for anyone who has to make sense of this stuff for their kids. Especially when there is no sense. It's too bad when kids have to learn about this nonsensical world so early in their lives.

I don't have kids, but after watching my dogs experiencing so much stress I can only imagine what it's like for kids. My 3 dogs hung on me for weeks. They were upset when new people came over, and it took them almost a month before they'd go out in the yard without me.

Quote

That was nice of your X to tell you that he broke the lawn mower... I'll bet you were gritting your teeth after that.

I think I misled - it wasn't my X who broke the lawnmower. It was a hired handyman.

My H doesn't even know where I moved, much less being invited to show up here.

So, I hope the "sounds of silence" are due to everyone here being busy having a life and enjoying the weekend.

We had sun here today. It made the newspaper, actually. Now it is supposed to rain again. UGH! I think we are going on 3 weeks of rain now.

I took all 3 dogs for a walk so I could check out a park in my new neighborhood. They had to step in EVERY water puddle along the way. I guess they don't know how to function when they're not wet!

So, Avondale, Petvet, Wallace, Leah, EC - how's your weekend going?

Hi all
I heard from [color:"blue"] Relady [/color] - she has been having log-in problems and that's why we haven't seen her around. Hopefully some of the tips I gave her will help.

[color:"blue"] DejaVu [/color] - You asked about my weekend...the reviews are mixed. I did more yardwork Saturday than I should have (clearing out an area for flower beds) which included lifting some river rocks that were heavy...all that after I walked/ran for an hour. (I'm not as young as I used to be, LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) Then that evening I had both kids and a few of their friends over for dinner. It was a full day but as we sat around the dinner table, it made me think about the "way things should have been" (with H there). In fact, he should have been here helping me with this flower bed! Will these feelings ever lessen? I'm glad I'll get to go to church today, the encouragement I get there will help.

It's so nice to hear from everyone.

EC,

Great to see you post. Please write later. We'd love to hear what's happening.

TRUSTING HIM,

You are right about each child handling divorce differently. I have been writing to my two oldest girls. They are both more comfortable with that form of communication. In fact, I started writing to them in a journal so we could keep it all together. They have both written the sweetest things, very encouraging.

My YD hates change and she's a real homebody. She also loves to be with Mommy. These are just some of the reasons I think the divorce might be the hardest for her to accept. I just can't quite picture her only being with me half the time... it makes me so sad for her.

But I know it will be good for her to spend time with her Dad even if she might not always be excited about it. He can give her things I can't in the way of fatherly love and influence. She also is very strong willed so she needs a very firm hand, something he is better at than me.

I hope you had a wonderful time fishing with your son. That sounds like a lot of fun. I was just trying to pursuade my girls to go hiking in the mountains. It is beautiful out today, perfect sunny weather! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WALLACE,

Thanks for the cyber hug. It's been much needed during these past few weeks and months. I am so looking forward to having this part of negotiations behind me. It is difficult to accept H's anger and rejection. I hope that it will be easier once he moves out.

DEJA VUE,

Hi! I'm sorry it's so rainy where you are. That can get depressing. Talking about your dogs and the effects of separation... I'm wondering how that will work with my two dogs. The kids really will miss having their dogs with them. I'm hoping that some of the time the dogs can go with H and the kids when he has them. I guess we'll see how it all works out in time.

AVONDALE,

Sounds as if you've been a busy lady. I've been working outside too. My OD and I planted some flowers and tried to work on some other outside projects. It's been kind of slow going as I'm pretty little and not exactly super strong when trying to move dirt and such around. Anyhow, a little at a time.

I often think the "way it should be" thoughts too. I wonder if they eventually go away or if they are always a part of us. I hope you enjoyed the service at church this morning. Sometimes the Word can be just what we need to hear. Take care.

Quote

[color:"blue"]Avondale said:[/color] It was a full day but as we sat around the dinner table, it made me think about the "way things should have been" (with H there). In fact, he should have been here helping me with this flower bed! Will these feelings ever lessen?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> So you ask yourself those same questions? [color:"purple"]Will these feelings ever lessen? [/color] I can only speak from where I sit and next month will be two years since I moved out of thier home. No! Thoses feelings have not lessened but what I do with the thought and emotions associated with those feelings or thoughts have.

Out divorced/widowed group started a new study Friday using Single, Married, Seperated, Life After Divorce by Myles Munroe. One of the new people is a man who has been divorced a little over two years now and during the discussion a comment was made about former spouses. the comment was one of a darkened shade and directed toward me. I told him that I was sorry that he felt the way he did but that my former wife was still an attractive lady and that under the circumstances she was dong the best that she could. He felt that I should find her unattactive and mean spirited. I explained that I did find her actions as unattractive and mean spirited but not her as an individual.

So now when those thoughts do come up I can reflect upon the positive times we had together. Trust me, there were more positive than negative in our 17 years of marriage. The truly negative ones only appeared during the last two years of our marriage.

[color:"blue"] Leah[/color] We has a [color:"green"] wonderful[/color] time fishing. We arrived at the river around noon, was in the water by 12:30 and canoed/fished until almost 8:00 PM. Just the two of us. On our way home we stopped at a samll local diner in that area and had a HUGE wonderfulsteak dinner (this place is known for their steaks) and had him home to Mom by 10:30 last night. Of course both of us were tired and almost sun-burnt.

P.S. The sermon topic today was "Divorce and Remarriage". The Pastor (under the guideance of the Holy Spirit) delivered a wonderful message on what could be a hotbed of disucssion on a very touchy subject.

Yes, I am curious if anything he spoke of even touched the hearts or minds of my former in-laws.

Hi Everyone....

What have I been up to ...hmmmm???

Well for startes I've taken this time to try and heal from all the mess... I feel pretty good these days. Things were like a scab constantly afflicted prior and now what happened with d-day and dv fades far into never, never land.

I'm past the pain of it all and thought I would never get there, but it's possible. Great joy without sorrow does come in time without blame of who's fault it was, you find it better to move on.

Currently I'm doing my business ventures and studyng for my Bachelors in Theology.

All I can say is that there is a side of life in you that has not been discovered yet. The (lowlife) person your WS thought they left behind in there eyes was nothing, wait until you get over your grief, it's going to blow your mind of whats waiting for you!! Never give up on you, you are priceless.

Take Care!!

yyyyyaaaaaahhhhhhoooooooooo

I'm back finally, Thank you to Tempest, you're awesome!

Hello all,

Still reading and still catching up. All is well with me.

I couldn't find my way back, and no one came to look for me, booohoooo! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'll be back once I catch up. I'm trying to find 'regular reply' instead of 'quick reply' YIKES!

EC, You are soooo right!

relady

Avondale,

I almost forgot, thank you too.

relady

Leah--

How are you holding up? I still check in here from time to time to see how everything is going with you. I wish we were still chatting in recovery but it looks like you're moving on to a new chapter in your life. I'm still praying for the best for you and your girls.

I noticed that you mentioned that your daughter was taking the SOL's--does this mean that you're my neighbor here in VA? Or do some other states do that? Or, perhaps it has a totally different meaning that I'm missing--I've never been very good with all the abbreviations <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you feel up to it, I think it would be good to post an update in recovery. Too many times folks drift away and we're left wondering what happened. Even if alot of those who knew you are gone, others may read it and it may help them. Success stories are great but I bet there are hurting spouses out there who may need to realize that, unfortunately, not all marriages can be salvaged. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If you get a chance, send a note my way. What you're dealing with now must be akin to dealing with d-day. Hang in there, leah.

HI DAMSELFLY AND OTHERS,

Thanks for checking up on me. Yes, I am your neighbor in Virginia. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will try to post an update in Recovery later today. I had written there last year regarding the idea that all individuals can be recovered, even if their marriage can't be. I am now having to remind myself of that once again.

It's quite something that you should check in yesterday. Unfortunately, it was another D-Day of sorts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> For some strange reasons, my teary guy won't post. Anyhow, I went to the attorney's office and I also went to H's office. Guess what? The blinds were closed, the door was shut and LOCKED, with he and assistant behind them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It was not a happy revelation.... H moved out last night. To say the least, it was a sad, difficult night. We were all in tears and my stomach is in knots.

Somehow, I know we will get through this. But, it sure is difficult right now. God is faithful and He will see us through.

Thank you all for your prayers and concern. I will try to post more later. I am suppose to lead a small group Bible study tonight for the youth in our church. Right now, I'm sitting here with a lack of sleep and lots of tears. But, things will get better... At least that's what I keep telling myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]((((( [/color] [color:"red"] Leah[/color] [color:"blue"] ))))) [/color]
When I saw that you had posted on this thread in the wee hours of the morning, I figured it probably wouldn't be good news. I'm so sorry for what you had to go through. In retrospect, it did answer your question, though, didn't it? And that was one of our prayers, that there wouldn't be any doubts. The fact that your H moved out ahead of the expected time just took everything out of your hands (even though I know you had put it in God's hands). I'll try to call you later. Remember, you are loved by us and by an almighty knowing Father. I pray you continue to have that extraordinary grace to walk through this next phase of your life.

Hi all!

Relady & EC: I'm glad you folks are back. Relady, I was wondering what happened to you. I was lost in space for a while myself until Avondale threw me a life jacket.

DeJaVu: The transition period is the worst because your feelings play tricks on you as to whether you are doing the right thing. Many years ago, I knew a vet who was going threw a D. He gave me a poem that basically said that during these times one has to build his own garden from scatch. Rebuilding is hard. Some folks are forever rebuilding.

Leah: It's a good thing that this is occurring right before the summer. Spend time with the kids, the transition time for kids can be very stressful.

Wallace: You need to be honest with yourself. How long have you been with your GF? After two or three years, she would be justified in wanting to get married. When will the last kid be out of the house? You need to put a plan in place, and ask her if it is acceptable to her. If it is not, then you need to give her the option of swimming to another pond. Do you understand what I am saying? Women are bonding types who don't want to be in a permanent boyfriend/girlfriend arrangement.

Avondale: You are lonely. Work on your mind and body and doors will open.

Me: Life is good. Even when it's not, things could always be worst.

Later.

Oh Leah, that's so awful. But now you know for certain--you won't have to look back with any doubts. You know the road he's chosen and you don't have to feel any obligation to going further with him. The trauma of this must be terrible but, probably in the long run, it is best that you know.

You're in my thoughts and prayers. If you need a real-live shoulder to cry on, maybe we're closer than we know.

I hope you do get a chance to post in recovery. I'll look for you there too.

Take care of yourself--you can get through this.

Aw Leah,

I'm so sorry. What a drag. Tried to put an icon in here for you, but it wouldn't work. So, please just know I'm thinking of you.

Hi All,

Thanks for your sympathies. Today was without a doubt the worst day of my life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I have hit rock bottom in a huge way. God has revealed truth about more very ugly, horrible things. Because this is a public forum I am unable to discuss what has taken place. Very scarry stuff.

I've been up since four A.M. I've had enough drama today to last a life time. It can only get better now. The course has been set and I must be very strong. I need prayers like never before. Thank you all for being my friends and supporting me through this. I will write and call when I am able to. With love and appreciation from me to you.

((((((Leah))))))

Please be safe!

Hey All,

Leah...

Wow!!! I'm sorry to hear that you had to find out that way.

When you come across it, and it's confirmed... it's like your soul has been torn right out of you. It's a horrible feeling, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

The Lord usually reveals it in his own time and in his own way so there is no doubt left in your mind as to what is truly happening.

How are you and you kids holding up?

Prayers for you and your children!

It's a tough road at this point... but with the Lord at your side, you and your children will make it through this ordeal. You will need to stay focused, which I found was one of the most toughest parts for me to do, but as time goes on... it gets better and easier.

Does your Church have a Divorce group, or a support group?

Try to find one... IMHO, it takes the edge off, and you don't feel like your in a boat with no oars out in the middle of the ocean.

EC...

Glad to hear your doing well. You sound like you have come a long way from the last time we saw you post.

I assume that your troubles with your exW and all of her baggage have settled down.

Stay in touch, and let us know how your making out when you get time.

relady...

Glad to see you made it back!

This new BB was and sometimes still tough to get through.

Hows Biz?

Trusting Him...

I think it was you as well as Dejavu who hit on still thinking about your former even still (I don't dare hit the back button to see who brought it up, I usually lose the whole post when I do that).

Well anyway, I think that's a pretty good subject, as I find myself thinking about my exW from time to time even still. I always wonder what life would be like if none of this ever happened, and how our lives would be now.

Petvet...

Glad to hear that your doing well.

You and Buddy still going strong?

In regards to your post to me about my G/F... your correct in your statement. For the record... she was in fact the one who put the brakes on us getting married. She didn't want to mix the families, and she explained her reasons... which I fully agreed with.

Now however, she is finding that I'm getting more comfortable being single, and that is making her nervous. So she brings up getting married about every two weeks.

We rehash the same things over again as to why we haven't, and why we should wait... she agrees with my reasoning (which was her's to begin with), and we move on to another subject.

She is free to go at anytime, and she is keenly aware of that. I vowed to myself that I would never let myself get caught in a position of being vulnerable ever again. I guess the "D" hardened my feelings... I'm not the same person I was three years ago... which maybe a good thing or a bad thing... I'm not sure.

All I know, is no one will ever break my heart again... I won't let it happen. I know that's hardcore... but I can't seem to break myself from that mind set.

avondale...

How's your yard work coming?

Well I hope everyone is doing well... and I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hello all,

Ok, I had no problem getting in this time. Oops, maybe I shouldn't say that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Leah

you may not be able to see this just yet, but you were given a 'blessing in disguise'. There is no way you would have been able to sustain your situation as it was.

God truly knows how much we can bare. And, He doesn't always answer our prayers in the way we think He will. But, you have to know that He has your best interest at heart. As long as you remember that, you'll get through it.

It's been almost three years for me and I have never felt better. During this time, keep yourself occupied and do the things you haven't done for yourself in the last few years, something your husband wouldn't do with you, that you gave up. Think hard, there's something.

Wallace

Still hanging in there with your GF? When's the wedding? Hurry up, we need our dresses! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Avondale

Hope all is well with you.

Petvet

Things seem well with you.

All those I missed, new and old, have a great weekend.

relady

Petvet, EC, and DejaVu
I have something to share which can't be posted here. If you want to send me your email address, I will update you. If you're not comfortable with that, it's OK. My addy is ***************** I have already sent it to the others who post on this thread.

Relady - you have mail

I would just like to make a suggestion concerning anyone that believes that they might possibly have spyware or adware in their computer and are being tracked.

May I suggest a program put out by Lavasoft.

It will catch most of the trackers you may have in your computer.

You can get a free download from www.lavasoft.com

let me know if you find anything after you have used it.

You will be surprised at how many trackers are on your computer... use it at least once a week.

Your probably wondering why I went way off topic with this post. Email avondale, and it will all become clear.

relady...

Glad to hear that your doing well, and welcome back!
As far as marriage, my G/F and I have it scheduled as of this writing, to happen within two years. That's as close of a time frame that I can give... only time will tell.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace,
I sent the E-Mail to avondale right away.

Just curious about the spyware software - there are several that are free, including SpyBot that I have at work, and one from Microsoft that I have at home. Is Lavasoft better, or am I ok with the ones I have?

I have my one at home set to monitor everything I'm doing, plus run EVERY night. Most of the time I get nothing, but there was one day that I got 180 spyware downloads in about 1/2 hour - just blasting my computer. I know, because the software was monitoring it as it happened. Scary stuff.

Hi Deja Vu,

I've used both, and you should be just fine with what you have.

In the situation that we have going here... and you will get the full picture after avondale emails you as to what is going on... I prefer the one (which I use as well), that I recommended.

It's possibly a little more involved... but with what we have going here with one of our posters... I believe it will most likely prove beneficial.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Well, looks like we go into the holiday weekend on a somber note, worrying about one of our own. I hope the tables are turned - and that it happens sooner rather than later.

For the rest of us, I hope it's a good weekend for all. Chins up everyone. If you happen to get sunshine, enjoy it. We've had one day of sun this week, otherwise have had 3 weeks of rain, and are expecting more this weekend.

UGH! The only good thing about it is I can delay mowing the lawn again. The bad thing is the lawn needs mowing about every 3 days now.

Cheers everyone!

We'll have a mixed-bag of weather this weekend, but I have plans/dates (no, not with a guy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />- just graduation parties and stuff to keep me busy!) so I'll be fine. I plan on calling our mutual friend over the holiday to pass on your comments, thoughts, and prayers.

[color:"blue"]DejaVu [/color] - What state are you located in? I thought NC was the ony state that grass needed mowing twice a week, LOL.

Avondale - I'm in Minnesota. I am pleased to report there is CURRENTLY sun shining. Or maybe I'm deluded - but there is this yellow thing in the sky.

Horrible day today. I went to the dog show where H and I have always gone together, and this time he showed up with a new G/F. This, after telling me he wanted to expedite the paperwork because he has windows to repair and needs to get closure on the finances. Now I wonder how long he has lied about her.

My friends thought he was flaunting her in my face - and that's how I felt too. So, the D isn't filed yet - mainly because he has tried to dump it on me to do (and I'm refusing to do it). But, now I'm going to revisit the property settlement and I'm NOT going to be generous as he wanted me to. SCREW THAT.

Anyway, she is much younger, has nice pretty long hair, and much thinner than me. It was clear he brought her there with him.

Why do I care? Can SOMEONE tell me why do I care? I do not want him back, but he hurt me and I think he should hurt in return. I'm furious with him, and sick to my stomach. I don't see how I can continue to function in the same circles, as he is doing his best to work his way in and me out. Other people have commented that he is trying to show off big time - laughing too loud, being over dramatic when he is showing his dog.

I want to just pack up and get the h**** out of here. I do NOT want to be here. D**** him anyway. How dare he throw me out and then reap all the benefits of his new single life at my expense. The one thing I told him back when he asked (and seemed to care) what would make this easier for me, was to not be bringing new G/F's into the settings where we both interact. He had agreed this was reasonable.

WHAT A LIAR AND DISHONEST MAN HE IS! I am steaming mad...

What do I do? One of my friends came up to me and said "if it was me I'd kill him - Bobbitt had the right idea" - that's how it looks to other people too. I do not feel like I can hold my head up anymore. He is trying to humiliate me. I just want to crawl in a hole and be gone for good.

Do I deserve this? Why is he trying to hurt me? It was only about 3 weeks ago that we ran into each other and he made a point of saying he'd always love me and wanted us to be friends. What kind of a hypocrit is this? What kind of a cheating lying scum is this?

I'm very sorry to be going off on all of you here - I realized as I drove home today that the only friends I have that I can share with (other than on this board) are people who are mutual friends in the same community. I can't talk to any of them because they are all his friends too. I feel SO lost and alone right now.

[color:"red"]((( [/color] [color:"blue"]Deja [/color] [color:"red"] ))) [/color] - I am so sorry! I know that must have been a tough afternoon to get through. Your H is still in the fog - it's all about him, and not about you. Don't forget that. Be strong; don't let him know that he "got" to you. Vent all you need to in this place, and don't lose control when you next interact with him. He probably wanted to see your reaction, for whatever reason. Don't give him the satisfaction.

When you think you can do it without creating a scene, do you want to ask him (either through email, phone, or in person)why he didn't honor your agreement about bringing a G/F to the show? My guess is he is just trying to show off (more than dogs, evidently!) and get you riled up. Don't let him know it worked!

This really HURTS! I'm feeling almost worse now than I was at D'Day - at least then we were physically together and I could talk to him - even vent rage at him. But now, nothing.

It was REALLY upsetting when I realized I have many friends, but not a one I can talk to about this without putting them in the middle of two friendships. I did end up blowing up last night at an instructor meeting for the dog club - there were 6 of us, probably the people I'm closest too, and all were at the dog show yesterday. Then I felt guilty for airing the dirty laundry and maybe turning them against H. Why I should care about making him look bad after what he did, I don't know. Guess I wanted to take the high road, but now if I continue to do that, I'll be hiking alone - and it will be an uphill climb.

An interesting observation by a friend yesterday was that he had his new G/F walking behind him and pulling his cart full of stuff, while he strutted out in front several paces walking the dog. My friend's comment was "pathetic - both of them!"

I don't know WHAT to do. I thought about confronting him - wish I'd been able to do it yesterday. What I should have done was walked up and said, "Gee, aren't you going to introduce your new girlfriend to your WIFE?" Probably wouldn't have had the nerve, and didn't think of it in time anyway.

Backwards, turn backwards oh time in thy flight, I've just thought of the wisecrack I needed last night! (I forgot the original source of this quote but I really like it!)

What I do feel like doing is hiring a lawyer and taking him to the cleaners. Make him sell the house - to hell with it. Why should I try to make his life easier for him, when he certainly isn't doing that for me. I had been willing to try to be considerate of his sitch - even though he created it for both of us. But I sure don't feel like that anymore.

I know this anger is just masking the intense hurt, pain, humiliation, grief, disappointment, all those things. I'm once again having the same very unique physical symptoms I had for about a month, beginning with D-Day last September. I thought I was past that - obviously not.

I also thought about getting revenge by bringing my own date to the dog shows. But it's too much work and not fair to the person I would be "using". My normal tendency is not fight, but flight. I'm finding myself thinking about moving out of state... things like that.

Goes to show what I've gradually been realizing - that everything has always been about him. The only time he ever considered my feelings was when it was no skin off his back to do so - or when he bottled up resentments as a result. I should have been the one to leave, and I should have done if in the first year of our marriage. Nothing has really changed since then - he's just got a more respectable facade now.

(((DejaVue))) I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this hurtful situation. Such raw emotions can be difficult to handle. Please feel free to vent away here. It is important to have a safe place to do so. We are here for you and I'll be sure to pray for you.

EVERYONE,

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. There is much I would like to write but no longer feel the freedom to do so. This situation has brought about emotions and reactions similar to D-Day#1, six years ago.

The first couple of days I kept shaking and crying off and on through out the day and night. I slept two hours or less both nights. It was pretty rough to say the least.

Thankfully, I am doing better now. I am eating and sleeping some. I am also much in prayer and reading a lot from the Psalms. Friends have been wonderfully supportive. They have called and have been here to help in whatever way they can. I am very blessed!

I continue to remind myself to trust God with all of this because He can bring truth to light and He will fight the battle for me. I am also entrusting myself to a very good attorney.

Like you Deja Vue, I was going to try to go about this in a very diplomatic, kind way. I was bending over backwards to try to come up with an agreement that H could be pleased with. I realize I can no longer take that route. I have been forced to another road. One that I have done my best to avoid for six years now.

But it is time for change and that change will begin within me. I will be strong in the Lord and life will get better. I will not give in to fear and all the confusion around me. I am determined that there will be a happier future for the girls and I and I'm trusting God to get us there. Everything is going to be okay!

Thanks again for your thoughts, prayers and suggestions. You are a wonderful group of people! Hope each of you is enjoying a great Memorial Day weekend! God bless!

Leah - seems like a fitting "Memorial" time for both of us, huh? I suppose I will always remember this weekend because of its milestone event for me.

I'm SO glad to see you posting here, and have been worried about you. Sounds like you are going to make it, stronger, and for the better, in the end. GOOD FOR YOU!

Fixing the title of this thread - I have no idea how I managed to change it to 'Q' - must be because I have so many questions right now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Leah....I was reading this morning with my children and this is where we ended up. It seemed to awaken a huge desire in them and in me as well. Because of that I thought I would pass it along to you. Regardless of our current circumstances we can always have [color:"blue"]hope! [/color]

1Co 13:13 Right now three things remain: faith, [color:"blue"]hope[/color], and love. But the greatest of these is love.

[color:"blue"]Hope[/color] is one of the three elements of true Christian character. [color:"blue"]Hope[/color] is joined with faith and love and is not seeing or possessing.

Rom 8:24 For we were saved with this [color:"blue"]hope [/color] in mind. Now [color:"blue"]hope[/color] that is seen is not really [color:"blue"]hope[/color], for who [color:"blue"]hopes [/color] for what can be seen?

What is [color:"blue"]hope[/color]? [color:"blue"]Hope[/color] is essential in the Christian life, a fundamental element much like faith and love that designates the essence of Christianity. What is the object of our [color:"blue"]hope[/color]? Christ! How is it described?

1Ti 1:1 From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and Christ Jesus our [color:"blue"]hope[/color]
Col 1:27 to whom God wanted to make known the glorious riches of this secret among the gentiles-which is Christ in you, the [color:"blue"]hope [/color] of glory.
Tit 2:13 as we wait for the blessed [color:"blue"]hope [/color] and the glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

It is a living [color:"blue"]hope[/color]. It is a [color:"blue"]hope[/color] that is not frail! It is a [color:"blue"]hope [/color] that is not persihable. It is a [color:"blue"]hope [/color] that has life!

I pray that you find as much peace in this as I and the children did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

I just spoke to Avondale and she shared with me your letters. THANK YOU!!! Those thoughts were so kind and supportive. I appreciate you all so much! As soon as I'm able, I hope to write to each of you and give you an update.

TRUSTING HIM,

Thanks for the encouraging thoughts and verses about HOPE. Yes, our hope is found in Christ. He is where all my focus and hope rests right now. He will see us through!

I am trusting Him to reveal truth and to give me continued strength and hope Thanks again for some uplifting truths.

Everyone is soooo quiet! I hope it's just the busy-ness of the summer! Nothing new to report for me. I hope all of you have a great weekend.
(I just couldn't stand for this thread to be stuck on page two of the forum!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi everyone!

Sorry I have been so absent from the board, but I've been busy, busy, busy.

I finally cleared the deck of all but one thing, and that's my G/F. I decided after much thought and deliberation, that I'm probably going to break up with her. We have been going in two different directions for quite some time, and I don't see it getting any better... so after almost 3 years... I'm going to take a break, and call it a day.

Deja Vu...

Sorry to hear about your sitch with you "H".

Luckily I haven't seen nor spoken to my exW for over three years, so I can't suggest much to you in regards to your "H".

I don't know if you would gain anything by taking another guy to the shows with you... it might hurt you more than help you. You should surround yourself with some of your good friends and carry on like it was just aother day and enjoy yourself, and just completely ignore your "H" if you can.

I know that feeling about just moving to another State and getting away from all the garbage. I've thought about it a number of times myself.

Leah...

Hope your taking care of business... as you really need to take care of business.

Hang in there... if I can get through what I went through... anyone can get through it.

Prayers for you Leah.

avondale...

It must be the time of year that this thread is so quiet.

How's your yard looking?

Petvet, relady, Trusting Him, EC, and anyone else that I probably missed...

Hope your day is going well.

Well everyone, have a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - You've said numerous times that you're breaking up with your G/F. What makes this time different? Does this mean you're available? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (I need one of those smileys that yahoo has, with the eyelashes batting, LOL)

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - How are you doing? Have you spoken to your H yet about bringing someone, or did you decide not to?

Avondale, you asked:

Quote

How are you doing? Have you spoken to your H yet about bringing someone, or did you decide not to?

About 10 minutes ago I got an E-Mail from H. He wants to talk and says he's feeling really bad about how things are going. I have NOT said anything to him about his G/F, but he has obviously guessed based on what happened last weekend, because he wrote "You may think that I am starting a new life but I remain faithful to you and intend to as long as we are still married. I have too many loose ends to be available for a relationship." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

How to take this? Did I overreact? Is he telling the truth? I don't know. He's out of town this weekend, so no need to do anything this second. Probably doesn't matter whether he is telling the truth or not... he seems to care what I think about it though.

I have, however, contacted my attorney and am waiting for his feedback.

So, [color:"red"]Avondale [/color] - how goes it with you?

[color:"red"]Wallace: [/color] How are you feeling about breaking up? Are you OK?

I'm having construction work done this weekend... should be a blast! (NOT!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hey All,

Deja Vu...

I'm going to give you my opinion on this... but keep in mind, I'm running with a real negative attitude at the moment due to my current circumstances.

Concerning your "H"... I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I would take what he had to say with a grain of salt.

He needs to do a lot more work than just that... I've seen this all before. A WS IMHO will say anything and do anything so as not to rock the boat... that is until they have enough guts in their spineless spine that they feel confident enough to make their move. You can take that one to the bank and bank it.

While your involved in this... trust no one... and I mean no one on this Planet, just go with your gut feel and let it play out for whatever it may or may not be worth.

As far as me breaking up with my G/F, and how do I feel?

I'm starting to develop a mindset, where I'm starting to believe that for me... long term relationships with anyone is a waste of time.

At this point... I'm thinking about going out and just playing the field... no commitments to anyone... I don't want any. Personally I think my last marriage put me into that type of a mindset. I'm personally scared to death of commitment at this point in time. I just like to come and go as I please.

I guess that's what 3 years of being single again will get you.

avondale...

To answer you question... I'm in theory available, but in my mind, I just need to break away from it all for awhile.

I don't want to commit to anyone... and it seems like when you meet someone... they want that commitment. I just want to take them out to eat or have some fun... I don't want to have to commit to any long term relationships.

I don't get it... why can't I take someone out for the night, without them wanting to get married right here and now?

Anyway... to answer your question... I have broke it off with her, and I can't remember how many times this makes it.

I'm finding myself loving her, but I'm not in love with her... are you following me on this one.

I'm at the point now, where I can probably walk away from darn near anything. (I'm thanking my exW for that mode of thinking).

Hey, my yards looking pretty good... we are getting a lot of rain... even though these Clowns we have for City Officials state we are in a drought, even though we are over 106% over capacity.

Politicians are like used car salesman.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I have to agree with Avondale, tht statement has been made quite often. Are you sure about this. I do know tht even in the midst of the last three years and the GF that you have made mention of the fact that you thought your former was, for a lack of a better description, the first and the last.

During the last few weeks we have started a new Study or Group Discussion on [color:"green"] [/color] Single, MARRIED, Seperated, Life After Divorce by Myles Munroe. You might want to give it a read. I think I've decided to hang with the single thing for quite some time.

Not to mention that only in the last few weeks our OD has verbally expressed " Daddy, please do not get a girlfriend." Where did that statement come from? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I have no idea as it is not a subject that she and I have discussed in the last 12 months or so. But considering that she was the one who at one time stated that she did not care one way or the other if I did or did not I would assume something is up in her life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> More on that later.

Oh! The yard is looking great since that is exactly what I have just finished. Until it began to rain again.

[color:"blue"]Leah [/color]

Praying that all is well with you and the girls. All of you have come to mind quite often in prayers and just want you to know that all of you are being remembered.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color]

I am so sorry about you weekend. As for your husband's email

Quote

You may think that I am starting a new life but I remain faithful to you and intend to as long as we are still married. I have too many loose ends to be available for a relationship

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Does his actions match up with his words?

I know! It's a very confusing time where your emotions swing from one extrem to another. One day you have a thought a feel that you love him and could get through anything and the next thought makes you so angry you'd rather throw them over the edge of the Grand Canyon. I can say that two years from moving out my own thought have stabilized greatly. Unless of course I allow myself to dwell to much on What could have been.

[color:"blue"] Avondale [/color]

I tried to steal an icon from Yahoo but it got confused when it realized that Mozilla was my browser of choice. Sorry....

So how are things up your way? It's rained here every day since last Sunday and has just started again. But as i mentioned earlier, I did manage to get at least the front yard cut before it dropped.

[color:"blue"]So where hae I been? [/color]

Busy with work and the children. Which brings along with it an entire range of emotions and things to deal with.

First...

The former is still dating this new guy. Bad news is that our OD has a crush on his son. That in itself is not to bad but the former thinks it is cute and it also validates where she is. Since OD and son all get along with BF's kids it one big happy family.

So happy that the former thinks it is OK to have BF's son spend the night at her house. Me? Who is he spending the night with? Our son is better friends with the younger son, not the oldest. Surely not our daughter! But, needless to say he did spend the night and the entire next day (which allowed BF's son, OD and OD's best friend to be home alone) Gasp!

Why the gasp? I know what kind of trouble I got into alone with young girls, or at least tried to get into. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But based on several comments I heard from DS and YD the OD and I had to have a brief talk later that evening. It appears that OD's crush was making out (No, not as bad as the first thought that comes to mind) with OD's best friend while Mom was away. Of course that gave me the oppportunity to express my concern about this boy. OD had already grasped that concept and said he was "Gutter Garbage" since he knew that she liked him and he still made out with her best friend. In her bedroom no less.

As the conversation continued she later admitted that she also made out with him. I guess when she had mentioned the earlier version with best friend she might have been testing the waters to see how Daddy would react. Conversation went well when she discovered that while Daddy was disappointed she could speak honestly about what had happened and how she felt. I have to be honest...it was a struggle...but we managed.

So I have a Mother who is blind to what is going on in her daughters life, a daughter who has now had her first Kiss but is aware of the fact that it is her who sets the standard for how boys treat her. She spent the entire next week with me because she did not want to be around Mom's BF or BF's son.

And I took all three of them to Six Flags and White Water last weekend. It was a TOTAL suprise to the children and we had a wonderful weekend. Which of course brings us up to today. While at Six Flagsthe children and I had one of those Civil War photos taked. If I say so myself we make an awesome picture. The girls were beautiful and us men were quite handsome.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Today the former camm by to pick the children up. The picture is framed and hanging on the wall in my living room. Of course she noticed it but I was taked back abit by her actions. If at anytime during the last three years I felt she was even trying to be friends it might not have been as wierd but when she saw it she walked across the living room, took the picture off the wall to look at, upon finsihing returned it to its place and then looked at the other wall where the children and I had hung new pictures from the last year or so in several different frames.

I do not feel that we are friends, parents yes but no where close to friends. And I can assure you that I woud not walk into her house and just take stuff off the walls there. So? What's up with this. How many of you all would walk into your formers house and take stuff off the walls to look at?

Other that all that "Life has been GREAT!"

Hey Trusting Him,

I think you may have hit on something there. I'm going to give that a read... sounds like it might be right up my alley. there is something amiss here... and I think I might be the one throwing it off.

I think my exW was my one and only, as I really have no desire to start all over again. I'm enjoying being single, and I don't want any commitment.

After reading your post... what direction are you going to give your daughter, since her Mom is not to concerned?

Your former does appear to want it to be one big happy family... but I'm in agreement with your attitude... not like this!

Are you going to have a heart to heart about it all with your daughter, or is that all ready water under the bridge.

To answer your last question... ahhh, no... I wouldn't walk into someones house and pull pictures off the wall.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Geez,
I go out to dinner and when I get back there are multiple posts!

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I’m glad [color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] admitted he was in a negative frame of mind. Here’s my take on your H’s email...No, you didn’t overreact. But like Wallace said, you need to take everything H says with a grain of salt. That doesn’t mean you need to be rude, or mean. But it also doesn’t mean to believe EVERYTHING he says, either. Remember, you can never go wrong by taking the high road - listen to what he has to say, and whatever it is - you don’t HAVE to respond immediately. You can always say “I’ll take that under consideration and let you know.” I do think you have every reason to ask him about introducing someone else into your mutual circle of friends, though, after him saying he wouldn’t. At the very least, that is simply inconsiderate.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color]- you said:

Quote

I don't get it... why can't I take someone out for the night, without them wanting to get married right here and now?

It must be your considerable charm! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I hope you get that book [color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] suggested. Give us a book review!

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - I was wondering where you were. Sounds like you’ve had your hands full. When I started to read about the former’s BF’s son (this is sounding like a soap opera!) and your daughter, I had a sinking feeling. I’m glad it wasn’t as bad as it could have been since her mother is obviously not paying attention, and I’m thankful you have an open door of communication with your daughter. One additional comment - it isn’t just her that sets the standard for how boys treat her. She also gets her standard from examples (you are the main positive one, probably) and other people of character (hopefully) she knows or reads about. So continue to pour into her all the positive things you can...I guarantee (and Wallace can back me up on this) there will probably be a day when there could no longer be a door for that kind of openness.
I think your former looked at the photo because it had HER children in it. And she saw that y’all had fun. And she wasn’t included. I hope it provokes her to think on what she’s lost!

OK, I’m getting cynical now, time for bed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]Relady, Leah, EC, and anyone else [/color] let us hear from you!

Hey gang,

Thanks to everyone for their input on my H. Some of you may be more cynical than others, but all are skeptical. I guess I should be too - you know, I don't want him back. BUT it's the first time in a very long time he showed (or expressed) any consideration for my feelings, or an interest in having any integrity.

I'm reading Safe People (again) - this book is SO powerful for me. The first time I read it I was thinking of how unsafe my H is; this time I'm looking at MY behaviors, and how they got that way. I'm realizing that my H was always an unsafe person, and I changed in many ways to compensate. I too became unsafe because I held back of myself in response to not being able to trust him. Now can I figure out how to use this in the future and only pick safe people? Maybe, maybe I'll pick no one, like Wallace!

[color:"red"]Wallace: [/color] I'm with you. I would LOVE to find people with your attitude to go out with and have fun, without commitments. That kind of "dating" I'm ready for. I do think you're a bit too cynical - but then, it takes one to know one! Hah!

BTW - as far as I know my H has not had any A's while we were together. He did say before we split that he was not going to ever cheat on me and wouldn't get involved with someone anytime soon. But I figured that only meant while we were together.

[color:"red"]Avondale: [/color] Your advice is wise and sensible. My H comes across as quite demanding and controlling at times - when I call him on it and refuse to drop everything to respond, he gets apologetic and backs away. Seems like I have to assert myself in so many words in order to be treated nicely.

Where are you at these days? What's going on with you? Seems like you're busy and you sound content.

[color:"red"] Trusting Him: [/color] That's a shame about the former, her BF and his sons. I almost wonder if your X isn't encouraging this - even subconsciously - to bring the kids more into her new life, or to make the point of excluding you from it. I just wonder. It's the cynic in me.

[color:"red"] Everyone [/color] - have a great weekend!

I'm having a patio put in today - so the area under my dog kennel won't be all mud and crud anymore. The guy who is going to put it in just called and is on his way. Unfortunately (or fortunately, I don't know which) I find him quite attractive and he's also a dog person! But, wrong place, wrong time.... probably not available anyway. It's kind of nice to have these thoughts again, even though I know I won't do anything about it. In fact, if he suggested anything, I'd run the other way.

Eeee Haw!

Major milestone for me - I got my lawnmower running and mowed the whole lawn. All 80 x 200 feet of it. I have been so stressed over this - I had actually hired someone 3 weeks ago to set up my lawn mower and mow the lawn. He broke it within an hour. He had decided to not put in all the oil - DUH! even I wouldn't have done that. Destroyed the thing - couldn't be fixed. So, he had to buy me a brand new lawnmower.

Anyway the new one sat there for days... while I was intimidated by the thing. Sat morning I finally plugged in the charger. Thankfully it required 24 hours to charge. So, I bought some more procrastination time. Today, with the last day of the weekend upon me and more rain in the forecast, I decided to just go for it. I did it quick, while the patio guy was still here in case I couldn't figure it out. But - piece of cake. I didn't need any help at all.

The morning started out early (would you believe 7:00 AM?) with someone coming by from the local electronics place to get my TV and sound system working together. Nothing was installed right on the original system in the first place - I've been living with it not working right for 5 months. Now I have a great system, with terrific sound from the TV, the DVD, and the stereo system too.

Oh yes, and the patio is finally done and in place too - and it looks great.

Ah, life is good!

Then H calls from his cell phone while on the road driving home from WI. I didn't answer it.

Ah... life is still good.

Hi Gang...

Just passing through and catching up.

Wallace - A breakup with your g/f??... I know what you mean when you say having the freedom to come and go without being committed or able to go out without - wanting to get married.

Marriage is a huge step especially after what you went through, however you must get free from your past hurt..
I recently found myself having hesitations of wanting to call people on there cellphone and preferred there home phone..(why?) because when exww was creeping, she always accused me of tracking her, when before d-day we always talked 3-4 times during the day.......So recently I found myself hindered from a stigma from almost 5 years ago. Soooo...some things you go through from the d-day period can affect your present lifestyle but you most break free.

Me - Just living life and having fun.

Hello - Avondale, Petvet, TH, Relady, Leah, Deja V, and anyone else I missed...you know who you are.

[color:"blue"] [color:"red"] EC [/color] [color:"blue"] - I'm glad you're back!

[color:"blue"] [color:"red"] Petvet [/color] [/color] - You haven't posted in a while. Have you been on vacation?

[color:"blue"] [color:"red"]Leah [/color] [/color] - What's new with you? I'm still praying for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] [color:"red"] Deja Vu [/color] [/color] - I know exactly how you feel - accomplishing just a little bit is exhilarating. It's nice to have things go the "way they are supposed to" after other things NOT going that way.

[color:"blue"] [color:"red"] Relady [/color] [/color] - How's business? Anything new to report?

[color:"blue"] [color:"red"] Wallace [/color] [/color] - I guess by now you're back with your G/F. Right or wrong?

[color:"blue"] [color:"red"]Trusting [/color] [/color] - What are your summer plans?

Hey All,

I'm at work so I'll have to make this quick.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu... [/color]

Glad to hear that you got your lawn mower rolling and you got your lawn mowed. Simple little things like that can make your day. I was going to mow my lawn this weekend... but it rained all weekend long, so I'll probably get it tonight after work.

[color:"blue"]EC... [/color]

It's amazing some of the things that stick with us after D-Day, and then the "D".

I'm still carrying a lot of baggage with me still. I'm shaking most of it off as time goes on. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever shake it all off.

[color:"blue"]Leah... [/color]

How are you making out?

Let us know when you get a chance.

[color:"blue"]avondale... [/color]

I didn't break up with my G/F yet. We are still in the talking stages at the moment. I'm going up to the mountains this weekened for about 3 days just to clear my head... and then I'm going to probably go up to Seattle to visit my Parents fo about a week.

Maybe while I'm gone we can both sort out what we truly want out of this relationship.

As soon as I can get a little time... I'm going to get that book that Trusting Him recommended, and I'll let you you know what I think about it. I have a feeling that there is going to be quite a bit in there that will pertain to me.

Hope everyone is having a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all! I have been absent a little while.

Avondale: How are you doing? It looks like you are settling in quite well.

DeJaVu: Believe it or not, I am a dog show person as well. As you well know, the dog show business has one of the highest divorce rates around. I'm not surprise that your H showcased his G/F in front of you. Many of the male handlers do it all the time. Many of them chase after the young girls. Your business is going to be all over the show grounds if you don't watch it. You may want to enter shows in other areas to avoid running into him. The problem is your show friends will be giving you a weekly update regardless of where you show. The main thing is to take care of yourself. There is no crime in reconsidering the D details. If you deserve and need more, go for it.

Leah: Stay strong. If you need to cry, cry your heart out. Concentrate on yourself then your kids. You must take care of yourself in order to take care of your kids.

Trusting: Hope, where there's no hope, there is no future, but at some point, hope must meet reality.

Wallace: Breaking up after three years? Are you sure? As Avondale said, what makes this time different?

Me: I'm, living.

Later.

Hey Petvet - I'm not in the conformation circles - I do performance events (several of them actually). Sounds like you do conformation? It is quite the different crowd (used to do that, don't do it anymore).

Wallace - got that lawn mowed yet? If I hadn't done mine on Sunday it still wouldn't be done. We had a steamy day yesterday, in between dowpours - it has rained Sunday night, Monday morning, and last night all night long (and still going this AM). Thunderstorms, tornados... the only thing we haven't seen yet is a tsunami! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey all - have a good week!

Hey All,

Well I'm going into the vacation brain mode... even though I'm only going to be gone for three days... I'm still winding down from it all.

[color:"blue"]Petvet... [/color]

I haven't broke it off with my G/F as of yet... in fact she is being so nice, I can't believe it. No talk about "M", nothing!

So we will see if she can maintain this posture, and if so... then I'll stick with it I guess. So I guess it's possibly no different than all the other times. But it's still not over with yet... so we will see.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu... [/color]

I got my lawn mowed yesterday... so it's all done for this week. I haven't planted any flowers though. In fact I haven't planted flowers since my "D". I must be procrastinating... or something. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - Why not plant flowers with your kids? Yes, I know they aren't "little" anymore, but if you give a hint that it might be a fun activity together (discreet bonding, so to speak) then maybe they'll do it for Father's Day! That's what I got for Mother's Day and really enjoyed it - purposeful planting with extra sets of hands. Enjoy your weekend - did you say you're camping?

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - We are having our typical southern afternoon showers these days, and if I don't get any yard stuff done before work (yes, I've been known to be digging up things at 6am!) then I probably won't be able to. The humidity is killer right now!

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I haven't been able to write sooner. These past two weeks have been the most difficult of my life. I still am in shock over some of it. The emotions have run deeper than even the first D-Day. The betrayal was so much worse this time with all the horrific circumstances that came with the questionable discovery.

I know God does not make mistakes and even in this He is Sovereign. So I continue to trust Him with all that I don't understand. I am praying for truth to be revealed to all parties involved. This has been my greatest test of faith yet. God is still at work. He's never late and He's seldom early. His timing is perfect and I need to hold on to that truth.

I can't help feel that one of the reasons He's allowed what happened to happen was for the emotional ties to H to be broken in a way that they never have been. His true character (Or lack thereof) was most certainly revealed. His obvious lack of love for me was pronounced in an undeniable fashion. I needed this as he's always been able to make me think he still loves me by his words.

A wise counselor friend has said, "Watch my life. Don't listen to my words" That was brought home to me on a whole new level. H is so very convincing. He's always had the ability to challenge my thinking to the point where he can have me questioning my own name. So, he knew just what to say to cause me to question my judgement of him and his lack of love towards me. That can no longer happen. I now know. It's a sad reality to face but there is no denying it any longer. He does not care.

But the good news is that the realization of that will help me to LET GO. Totally.... I have given this marriage completely over to the Lord. I am moving forward. There will be a happier future for the girls and I. I am anxious for all the present happenings to be done and to truly be free of all the bondage of this relationship.

Thank you all for being faithful friends. I've been keeping up with all your stories. I just haven't been able to respond personally to all of you yet. Hopefully, in time things will stabilize to the point where there is more time and clarity to do that. My love to you all.

Leah,

It's REALLY good to hear from you, and to see that there is something upbeat that can come out of this for you. You are a very strong woman and are doing a great job of coping with this.

We know you are here with us in spirit and I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say, you are in my thoughts!

Leah - great to hear from you. And you're right, this is one way that there is NO DOUBT, and you can LET GO like you were not able to do before. It is painful, I'm sure, but you have a big God with you. We love you!

Hey all, I'm new. My wife asked for a divorce about a month ago and has been having an affair. She is spending the weekend at the other guy's house now and I am home alone with our daughter. Don't know weather or not to call and tell her I love her or leave her alone. I want to save this marrige at almost any cost.

Hey everyone, I'm new and kinda' computer illiterate but in desperate need of someone to talk to about this. Would someone please reply so I know I'm getting through?

Missmybee....I can't really give advice but go to the General questions board because there are ususally more people there who give great advice.

Hey there - I'm stopping in and out tonight. You'll find not many people here on the weekend. You might want to stop in to the General Questions section where there are more people, and they are all dealing with infidelity.

That being said, you're welcome here too - and I'm sorry you have to be here. I don't know what I can offer you as I've not personally dealt with infidelity. I can suggest you read the things on the main MB site - including the things about Plan A and B - but my advice wouldn't be from personal experience.

I do know there are people who have worked things out; people who have given up the affair partner and returned to their spouse. It is possible. Keep asking - and someone with the right background will show up and jump in, I'm sure,.

[color:"blue"]Missmybee [/color] - Yes, you got through! But I also agree that you probably shouldn't start here in the Divorced forum. Usually those who post here are much farther along in the D (Divorce) process which is NOT where you want to be.

If you go to the GQII (General Questions II) forum, you might want to post a little of your story (your marriage history, what might have led to your wife's A (affair), age of children, etc.). Hint: Separate your post into paragraphs to make it easier to read and you'll get more responses.

Usually affairs start because of unmet needs. As [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] said, read up on all the info on this site. There are also some good books (sold on this site or at www.amazon.com) which you'd benefit from reading, including "Surviving An Affair". You are welcome to post here on this thread too. But as was already said, there isn't a lot of activity over the weekend. Do you have family nearby who can support you through this?

Quote

Deja Vu...

Concerning your "H"... I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I would take what he had to say with a grain of salt.

He needs to do a lot more work than just that... I've seen this all before. A WS IMHO will say anything and do anything so as not to rock the boat... that is until they have enough guts in their spineless spine that they feel confident enough to make their move. You can take that one to the bank and bank it.

Wallace - you are right on. If you recall - he had sent me an E-Mail denying everything (though his denial was out of the blue, as I had not said anything about it - he initiated the subject!).

Well, last night I found out that he had introducted the bimbo as his G/F to people at the show that weekend. So, even while he's writing that he would NOT cheat on me and did not have time for another relationship, he has introduced her as his G/F.

He either thinks I'm blind, stupid or both. Clearly has no integrity and no respect for me. Good to know this, huh? Because it cements my resolve that I'm BETTER OFF without him, and will ALWAYS be better off without him. And am not backing down on taking what I'm legally entitled to from the house. Too bad if he is broke - that is not my problem, and I'm not giving up my equity because of his poor planning.

Have you heard the story of the lawyer whose client was on trial for murdering his parents? The attorney approached the court to request leniency for his client, on the grounds that he was an orphan!

Like my H's logic - he wanted the D, it cost him more than he expected because he failed to check things out properly, and now I should share the costs of his incompetence for the D that HE wanted.

You can see how this kind of stuff can make a person crazy - the "logic" is so warped that it's hard to even figure out how to debate it. Note to self: do not try to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man!

Deja Vu said:

Quote

Well, last night I found out that he had introducted the bimbo as his G/F to people at the show that weekend. So, even while he's writing that he would NOT cheat on me and did not have time for another relationship, he has introduced her as his G/F.

I'm confused...is this the SAME show (a few weeks ago) or another one that he brought her to? Either way, you definitely need to point out this inconsistancy to your H!

Yes, it is the same show I mentioned a couple of weeks ago - I found out from a couple of people just this week that he had introduced her that way, and apparently these people didn't know it was a surprise to me!

Oh, I fully intend to address it. I'm waiting until my lawyer gets back to me (H doesn't know I hired a lawyer and didn't want any lawyers involved). At this point, I'm optimistic that with my lawyer's legal opinion to back me up, H will go along with what I want and we can get the legalities over with. Right now I don't want to instigate any further conflict because I think it is in my best interest to ignore it until I get the resolutions I want. Furthermore, I have a point of argument if he gets nasty about things.

Knowing him, he's probably wondering why I totally ignored that part of his E-Mail. I decided to address another point so he'd know I got the E-Mail, but deliberately ignore his lies. He needs me to say I believe him. Ain't gonna happen!

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - Sounds like your plan is good, if you're sure you want a "D". Sometimes even the mention of a lawyer will be enough to make a wayward husband be fair, especially if they didn't want lawyers involved.

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - How was your camping? See any bears? I bet it was cold (I always associate camping with mountains!). Hope you had a good time and were able to get your brain cleared to think about things.

Yup - I want the D. I was pretty sure before. But, now that I know I'm dealing with someone who doesn't honor his promises, is inconsiderate of my feelings even while claiming to be so righteous and caring, lies about important things, and could well be a narcisist - hmmmm - let me think about it... YES! (I want a D).

The sooner the better. I learned from my lawyer that H has legal claims on all my property, including my new house, until the D is final. That's scary - my lawyer thought I needed to think about this carefully, and move quickly if I was sure I wanted the D.

So, how's everyone else? What's up with the rest of you?

Hey All!

I'm back, and I'm playing catch-up on work and all my household duties.

avondale...

Camping was o.k. for the most part.

It was cold, and it rained, and the wind blew with up to about 80 mph plus wind gusts. Aside from that... I cleared my brain for the tree days I was up there, and now I'm buried in work that piled up on my desk for the one and only day I took a vacation day from work on. I'm getting through it though.

How are you making out?

Deja Vu...

It sounds like you have a good game plan going... I would stick with it.

Well gotta run... gotta go back to work.

Hope everyone is well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hey Leah,

Are you still around? How are you doing? I think about your sitch from time to time and wonder if anything is looking up for you yet?

Stop in and say 'hi' if you can.

HI ALL,

[color:"blue"] [/color] Happy Father's Day to all the Wonderful Dad's on this thread. Hope you're having a great day! [color:"blue"] [/color]

Deja Vu,

Yes, I'm still here. I've been reading here but haven't had a lot of time to post. Things are still very challenging here at home. My girls are with their dad today for Father's Day, so this is a good time to write.

I'm sorry for what you are dealing with in regards to your H. I know how very much the betrayal can hurt. You are wise to be cautious of what you allow yourself to believe when it comes to listening to your H's words of reassurance. This is familiar territory for me.

As I've written before, I have learned the hard way to believe someone's actions rather than their words. Some people are very adept at promising you the sun, moon and stars but their actions can fall WAY short of that. It sounds as if we both might be married to those types of people.

I wish you the best in your situation. It sounds as if you are keeping your head on straight through all of it. Keep looking up!

Avondale,

I'm going to try to call you today so I can give you an update about everything. Hope you are doing well.

Wallace,

I'm glad you had the chance to go camping. It's always good to get away for a few days. I think I could really use that right now.

So how are you and your G/F doing? Are things still running smoothly between you both? Has she made peace with the idea of waiting for marriage?

Thanks for your encouragement to stay strong. I often think of your closing line in the midst of ongoing struggles here. I'm trying to stay strong with God's help. Hope you're doing well too!

TRUSTING HIM,

How are things going for you and your family? How is your daughter doing with the situation with her mom and boyfriend? That would be such a tricky situation. As always, it sounds as if you are dealing with the situation with much thought and wisdom.

Thank you for always being an encouragement with the things you write. I really appreciate your thoughts and prayers. I am very much looking forward to having this situation resolved but it looks as if it might not be any time too soon. I'm trusting God with the timing. He knows best! I hope you are doing well!

Hi E.C., Petvet, Relady and Anyone else I might have missed,

I always enjoy hearing updates from each of you. I hope you are all doing well and enjoying life. God bless you!

Leah2be

It is so good to hear from you. And from the sounds of your posting it seems that you have a good handle on your thoughts and emotions. Praise God! You and the girls have been in my prayers.

Custody questions from your other post. Today, from my prespective on divorce 50/50 would be in the best intrest on all involved. The schedules of a standard visitation or parenting schedule are just as hetic on the children as the 50/50. But it will take 2 parents working together to ensure that it works.

Do husbands/fathers change? Looking at myself I would have to say yes. I too spent much time at work, traveling and working overtime. I was attempting to provide for a family and doing what I thought was best for us. Since our divorce I see and understand just how much of an impact a father does have on his children's lives and have adjusted my priorities because of that.

So even my former wife could say that at times before our divorce I seemed unintrested in the day to day lives and activities of our children where now I make it a point to show them through my time that I do love them and care about them. I have learned that with children LOVE is spelled TIME.

From what I hear from you it seems that you fear is that while your husband is asking for 50/50 you feel that because of his schedule you may still end up with the girls most of the time. That could be true and one of the other posters touched on the subject of child-support and the differences paid in standard visitation vs. the 50/50 approach. You will need to keep that in mind as you approach this subject with him and your lawyer.

That is something that only you can answer. But know that I will keep you in my prayers.

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color]

You said:

Quote

I think you may have hit on something there. I'm going to give that a read... sounds like it might be right up my alley. there is something amiss here... and I think I might be the one throwing it off.

and I will just quote from one of the chapters:

You men who are not married, please take heed to this revelation. If you are unmarried, be quick to hear and slow to speak. Do not lead women on and play games with their emotions. Mkae up your mind not to make a move unless you are ready to die for that commitment.

In other words, do not join the army until you are prepared to die and never defect.

you.....must decide, "Is she chasable to the grave?"

As for the daughter, I can only pray that I pointed her in the right direction. Yes, we had a heart to heart talk and she knows that it is my desire for her to remain a virgin until she marries. Yes, we dicussed the making out thing and even talked about how our minds may say one thing but out emotions and feelings are saying the exact opposite. So she knows that it is best to not put ourselves in a position where those emotions may have the chance to take control.

She has managed to keep her distance from this boy since then, enough distance that it was noticed by her Mother and she asked me if I might know why OD was being non-chalant (sp) around him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I just smiled and Thanked God.

[color:"blue"]Avondale [/color]

Soap Opera? [color:"#666666"]The Day's of Our Lives[/color] and [color:"#666666"]All My Children[/color] with a bit of [color:"purple"] Ryan's Hope[/color] all wrapped up in one.

No, I agree that her Mother is not paying attention, or she's paying attention to the wrong things. OD did say that Mom thought it was cute that she had a crush on BF's son. To me that is a huge red flag. But prayer and God has managed to damper those feelings.

You are right and I should have mentioned that too. It is not only OD that sets the standard but also how she sees me treat other people, particulary women and even her. So...please keep her amd me in your paryers.

OD did attend a "Souled Out" summer camp in Panama City. Her Youth Group left in clicks and returned as a unified group, all united through Christ. Before leaving OD may have been able to tell you 10 names of the people in her group. Upon returning she can list 50! Thye had an Awesome trip and they all returned Fired Up for Christ. Now I'll just encourage her to keep that flame burning.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color]

I think you hit it square on the head. I feel a good portion of it is consciously, at least in the direction of attempting to create this "family unit" with her and the other children.

It's OK to be a cynic at times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I pray that all is well with you. It is amazing what our spouses and former spouses can and will do to get things their way.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color]

It was good to see your name back on the boards again. And I can surely vouch for the feeling of being "hindered from a stigma from almost 5 years ago."

Living life and having fun sounds good!

[color:"blue"] PetVet[/color]

Quote

Trusting: Hope, where there's no hope, there is no future, but at some point, hope must meet reality.

Reality? Reality is living life from one day to the next, "give me this day my daily bread" is the best that I can hope and pray for.

My faith and the encouragement and support from you all here has carried me to where I am today. I wonder where Peter's hope was when he stepped out of the boat. I can promise you it was not in the water he stepped into. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Everyone [/color] -
Leah posted a new thread, and I think those of you who have kids and custody arrangements might offer her some insight there. Click on this link Leah's Custody Questions

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - thanks for the post on the "netiquette". I'm seeing too many newbies either not get responses or just jump in without reading any of the articles here, so it seemed time for a little reminder.

Hi all! I have had alot to review in order to catch up.

Leah: I'm happy to hear from you. Normally, the WS will reveal themselves. They will show their real beings. Now the light shines right through. Follow the light. While I was going through my trials, I use to always say to myself that weather the storm and someday the light will shine through. Things cannot stay bad forever. Hang tough. During this time, go into serious thpught about yourself, where you have been and where you are going.

Missmybee: I would like to offer a differing opinion on this thread from what you have been told. I don't think that this thread is for doomed M. I think we offer advice and recommendations to help folks save their M; however, if the BS find that D is an option, then we try to help them through that process as well.

DeJaVu: I think your H is disrespecting you big time. Is you H still living with you? He must be held accountable.

Avondale: How are you doing? Any trips plan.

Wallace: Camping! Hmmm. I may be camping some time this summer.

Me: I am doing fine. I have been lagging with my posts lately, but I am going to improve.

Later.

Hi All,

I started posting yesterday, but got caught up in work, and had a bunch to take care of when I got home, so I figured I would try to post now.

I would just like to say that I hope all the Dad's had a "Happy Father's Day", I had personally had an execellent time with all of my kids. It was just family only... and we all had a great time.

[color:"blue"]Leah... [/color]

It's good to hear from you, and thank you for the well wish on Father's day... it is greatly appreciated.

I read your post about custudy yesterday and was going to respond... as I am back in the midst of CS issues again myself... but ran out of time. I'll give it a read again, and see if I can add anything worthwhile.

How are you making out and holding up?

You do need to Stay Strong! while going through all the wonderfullness. It will indeed push you to the farthest edges, and you will need to walk with the Lord the whole way through it in order to maintain any kind of sense of being.

Keep us updated as things progress.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu... [/color]

How are you holding up since everything came to light?

Maake sure that while your going through all of this, that you cover every base. Cross all your T's and dot all your i's. Otherwise you will where I am heading three years later... going back to Court. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]avondale... [/color]

Yep... I had to add to your thread, as I agreed with it all.

Thanks for taking the time to post it.

[color:"blue"]Trusting Him... [/color]

Thanks for the excerpt from the book. It looks like a great read... and I'm sure it will answer a lot of questions for me.

Glad to hear that you had the talk with your OD, and everything is going in the direction that appears to be positive.

Keep up the good work!

[color:"blue"]Petvet... [/color]

The camping trip was pretty good aside from the weather. It cleared the head for the time being... but now I'm back to the big City again, and the clearing of the head was short lived.

How's things going on your end.

[color:"blue"]Me... [/color]

Well my G/F and I are doing O.K..

She kicked back in on the "M" thing again, and I flat out told her, that I wasn't going to think about "M", until all the kids were out on their own, and that was my last word on it.

The more she brings it up... the farther she pushes me away.

She has CS issues that she has to deal with, because her exH is a deadbeat, and she has to go back to Court. I also have to do the same thing. It just never ends... I'm real sick of it all personally.

[color:"blue"]relady, EC, and anyone else that I missed... [/color]

Hope your all doing well.

Well have a nice day all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Quote

DeJaVu: I think your H is disrespecting you big time. Is you H still living with you? He must be held accountable.

No, I moved out last December. Read on - he never lets himself be accountable for anything.

Interesting the insight I had the other day - something that was a problem in our M for almost all of the 20 years. It is this: He has a different perception than I do of his behavior - always has, probably always will. He thinks he IS being respectful. He simply disavows any knowledge for how other people perceive his communications and that is the end of it. Out of his mind and on he goes. For instance, he simply cannot understand why anyone would assume this woman he brought to the dog show was his G/F. Even though people swear he introduced her that way, he says they're all mistaken and that he wouldn't have introduced her that way. He says the problem is everyone else jumping to conclusions and not his behavior.

What's hard is while you are in the situation, listening to him or reading his E-Mails, it sounds so rational. I end up thinking, maybe I'm the crazy one, maybe I'm at fault for not trusting his good intentions, and therefore twisting what he says. Maybe I should assume the best instead of the worst - which is of course what he wants everyone to do. Maybe if I trusted him in the first place, I would believe him - because according to him, all his motives are pure and all his actions commendable.

Someone should write a book on how people explain away all their behaviors by placing responsibility on others around them for perceiving things wrong. This is an interesting strategy: "you misunderstood me, and all errors in understanding are your fault - they have to be, because my intentions are so pure." He has always told me that how I react and feel as a result of his actions is 100% up to me, and has nothing to do with him.

I remember he broke something of mine 20 years ago, and simply said, "gee I didn't mean to" - and that somehow absolved him of any guilt OR responsibility. He never offered to fix it or replace it - his good intentions absolved him. Funny, I still remember this incident. Why didn't I realize this was a red flag? I must have known or why else would I remember it as clearly as if it were today? I even kept the broken item all these years - even moved it with me when I left. Why would I do that?

Over the years he has messed up several things that cost me lots of $$, and failed to follow through on really important matters, leaving me to do it myself or suffer the consequences. Not his concern.

And you know what? This behavior is SO insideous. It isn't until it has happened over and over again, until a pattern emerges, that you see it for what it is. And those moments are fleeting glimpses. The next time something that fits that pattern happens, you have to be able to relate it back to the pattern. If it doesn't exactly fit, it's hard to decide what to do. You don't want to make a big deal out of a little thing if there really isn't a pattern there. It isn't always easy to see when a little thing is just one more part of a BIG thing.

We can't both be sane, can we?

Deja Vu,

Wow, you could have been writing about my H! He does the same type of thing. Have you ever read any books dealing with narcissism? About five years ago we went to a counselor who gave my H a personality test. He ended up being highly narcicisstic.

The more I've read and learned about this sad personality disorder, the more I've understood how impossible it is to have a relationship with this type of personality. You might find some interesting reading if you look this up.

I've also read a couple of books dealing with this disorder. One is called "Why is it Always All About You" by Sandy Hotchkiss. This is a very informative and interesting read.

Hang in there with your situation. I just noticed your other thread. I'll try to read there and respond tonite.

Trusting Him,

Thanks for writing. It sounds as if you've made some positive changes since your divorce. You are a very different person than my H and I'm concerned that my H's motives are not as pure as yours. I believe you truly have your children's best interest at heart. I don't believe the same of my H. He has done several things of late that have continued to confirm this belief.

I think he is good to the girls as long as it suits his purposes. I believe that although he loves the girls, it is a selfish love as he is still #1. I would like to think better of him but I'm afraid his actions confirm my sad suspicions.

The girls have been having a difficult time with the back and forth between our homes. They have seemed sad and they are missing being here. I don't know if that will change as they get use to this arrangement or if it only will get worse once school starts up. I am concerned with them keeping up with everything being back and forth between two homes.

Because of this, I'm just not sure about the 50/50 thing. I truly want what is best for them. I will just have to continue to pray and seek God's wisdom about it.

Thank you so much for your prayers. It is wonderful to know so many are praying right now. That is what will see me through these difficult days. Take care.

Wallace,

Thanks for responding here and on my other thread. I am so looking forward to talking to the attorney about all of this. I hope to get some answers on Friday. Even now, things have been tough with the girls the way H is wanting to divide the time. He's very insistent on doing everything his way. I'm interested in knowing if anything can be done now to change our current custody arrangements.

Hope your situation with child support or custody gets resolved quickly. I can't believe you're still dealing with it now. Hang in there and God bless.

Avondale,

Good talking to you the other night. Thanks for writing about my other thread. You always take such good care of all of us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Have a good day!

Hi Petvet, EC, Relady !

Leah - thanks for your input! You are not the only one here to suggest narcissism for my H. I did some brief reading on the Internet, and it certainly sounded plausible. Now I see Amazon has this, and another book someone here recommended, in used versions for right around $5 each - so I went ahead and ordered both of them.

There was another book on Amazon about narcissistic families. From reading the reviews, it sure sounds like H's family background is much like described in that book. (This book is $37 - I'm passing on this one.)

Hi Gang............

I don't know how many saw the "Run Away Bride" interview lastnight, but for me it brought back so many emotions after I had a chance to talk to my exww after the 1st d-day in 2001. I remembered as we talked and hugged I asked why the AF, why is she moving? etc...All she could do was cry in my arms from shame, guilt and confusion, but then said she was running and knew she was but didn't know why? She said she must run because that's all she knows to do.....

I said what are you running from? She had no answer...

Maybe I could be wrong but I feel a part of Jennifer W problem,just like my exw, is the DV Jen's parents had when she was 4 yrs old. Just when a commitment to a person enters her life, she runs, false perfectionist condems herself......hmmm?

Anyway as they sat there lastnight being interviewed I thought I was looking at a mirror of me and my exw..........

I only thought even more of how many BS's are living in false guilt that the DV and Af's are about them? Her (soon to be) husband was totally innocent, I wondered how he would have felt after they had said (I do)and she would had run, would he still feel innocent or at fault? Just trying to look at things from a before and after view...

Anyway she's a nice woman I wish them all the best...

Hello to everyone........

EC

It's so good to see and hear you back again. You;ve been missed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're not the ony one who had thought along that line. As I was listening I was rushed back in time to a comment my former made when news of OM was first made public between me and her.

All I want to do is just run. I just feel like running away from everything.

Quote

false perfectionist condems herself......

And she is still looking today for that perfect relationship, perfect family and perfect image.

Hi All

[color:"blue"]EC... [/color]

I did not see the interview that your speaking of, but I do undrstand the "I need to run away" atttude.

My exW never said anything about wanting to "D", or leave, but she had downloaded a bunch of music on her computer that was all about that... which I later listened to after she had left. Quite an interesting listen if I must say so myself.

I can only imagine what you felt while watching it.

IMHO, most WS's feel like they need to run away.

I wonder why?

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu... [/color]

for some reason I can't go back and grap quotes without losing the whole post... so I'll just wing it.

Most WS's do exactly what your "H" does and is doing. They are never wrong, ever, about anything. You can catch them red handed in the midst of commiting whatever... and they will always have an excuse... always!

Your not seeing shadows on the wall, and your not going nuts... even though they will make you feel like you are. Your dealing with reality, and sometimes, it will drive you crazy, especially if you know your within your senses.

It's an old trick that all of the WS's do in most cases.

Go with your gut feel, and don't let his excuses lead you in any other direction.

[color:"blue"]leah... [/color]

As you can see... you, and your children are already feeling the effects of a 50/50 proposition.

I'm not kidding... 50/50 is a bad deal, and no one will ever change my mind on that. It's not good for the kids, and there is no viable studies out there to indicate anything otherwise. In fact there are many studies that indicate that it's not good for the children.

You need to stabilize their enviroment... let them know, that this is there safe place, (your home) and they can count on this being a stable enviroment.

Children need this more than ever when this type of situation is going on.

I fought for this for my children.

Do you know what the odds are of a Father getting sole custody of his children over their mother? They are not good, but I did it.

Yes... I hired the best attorney money could buy in this City, but I scrimped and saved, after being financially ruined at the time by my exW.

It was a fight... no... I'll take that back... it was a war... and my attorney told me not to look at it as anything less than a war... so I didn't.

It's still a war, as I'm heading back to Court, over what I never even thought of during the time that this was all going down. I posted what it was in your thread.

Cross all the T's and dot all the i's, I don't know how much I can stress this.

[color:"blue"]Trusting Him... [/color]

I haven't had a chance to order that book yet.. do you have any other excerpts from it.

Hope everyone is well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone,

Trusting Him,

You and Wallace have such different perspectives on this custody issue. I respect both of your opinions. Did you read my last post to you about it? I'm wondering how you think this might play out given the differences in your parenting style and my H's. Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Wallace,

Thanks for all your input regarding custody. I asked you a couple of questions on the other thread. I go to the attorney tomorrow, so I'm hoping to have some questions answered then. Meanwhile, I'm thinking and praying much about what my take on all this should be. I truly want what is best for the girls. Sometimes it's hard to determine what that is.

DEJA VU,

I'll try to write you on your other thread today.

HOPE EVERYONE IS HAVING A GREAT DAY!!

Hey All,

[color:"blue"]leah... [/color]

I think when we walk into Court... we all want what is best for our kids.

You can do what I did if you want to...

Write a list of Pros and Cons on what it's going to be like shuffling your kids back and forth between two seperate households until they reach legal age, and see what you come up with.

Going for "Sole Custody" is a major undertaking, and the likelyhood of you getting it the first time out the gate is slim at best.

There are ways to do it... it's all in how your Attorney presents the evidence, and if there is a sufficient amount of evidence to warrant you obtaining sole custody.

Everyone's situation is different when a "M" falls apart. There is different dynamics in play from one persons situation to the others.

You and the children are already having problems dealing with the 50/50 situation, and your just starting to deal with it. What do you think it will be like... say in five years?

Will it be better, or will it be a real horror show?

Say a long prayer, and have the Lord lead your way on this, as this is a very important and long lasting part of your lives that really need to be taken into consideration.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - I seem to recall (maybe incorrectly) that after your exW left, she never contacted you or the kids. Basically you knew going into this final stage of Divorce (after several false recovery attempts and a long period of time) that she didn't want to be responsible for the kids. Right? Had she given any indication she'd fight you for custody of any sort?

This is different from [color:"blue"] Leah [/color] , whose H is saying he wants to be involved with their little ones(at this time, anyway) and wants some partial custody. And don't forget the extenuating circumstances surrounding Leah's other situation, which may very well come into play with a court decision about custody. I'm not sure she can be as assertive as you were able to be, because of that.

I didn't want to stir anything up, just remind everyone that Leah's situation has that extra unique element from several weeks ago...and to be thinking/praying for her tomorrow when she sees her lawyer.

Hi All,

[color:"blue"]leah... [/color]

Good luck at the attorney's office today!

Hope everything goes well under the circumstances.

[color:"blue"]avondale... [/color]

I'm going to clarify some of my suggestions to leah so maybe all will understand.

Quote

quote by avondale:

I seem to recall (maybe incorrectly) that after your exW left, she never contacted you or the kids. Basically you knew going into this final stage of Divorce (after several false recovery attempts and a long period of time) that she didn't want to be responsible for the kids. Right?

One part is correct... in fact the only communication from my exW came this past April in the form of a B-day Card on my YD's B-day.

To recap... I was legally seperated from my W at that time for almost a year with divorce proceeding in process, which were initiated by me.

Yes there were false recoveries... all told over 23 years... about 17 of them.

In the divorce papers, I requested "Sole Custody" of my children. I had gathered many years of info on my exW to utilize it against her.

She originally was asking for "Sole Custody" on her behalf during the "D" process, but gave up due to the fact that the kids wanted nothing to do with her life style, and eventually her... so she dropped it completely, gave up, and the rest is history.

Thanks for smacking me in the head though... I think I did indicate that everyone's dynamics are different, but I did however forget about the other circumstance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Now that my memory has been jogged... it does make for a tough situation... I forgot all about that.

[color:"blue"]leah, you need to try to get that cleared up as soon as possible... you don't want that hanging over your head during this D proceeding. [/color]

50/50 is still a bad idea IMHO, but under the circumstances, it may be the best option for leah at the moment.

You can always go back to Court later on down the road and try to change it, like so many people caught in this wonderfulness have to do.

Well I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace - I would never *smack* you in the head! Well, maybe Relady and I did once or twice cuz of your GF doings <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />... But I just wanted to remind EVERYONE about that other THING that's going on in Leah's life. Hopefully that can be concluded soon, so it can't become a "bargaining tool" her H can use to try hold over her.

avondale...

You can go ahead and smack me anyway... because I still have G/F problems.

Again, thanks for the reminder, and I couldn't agree more about leah clearing that up. Hoepfully it won't become an issue.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Leah: I would to comment on the child custody issue. I agree with Wallace when it comes to the 50/50. It will be a pain in the ----. Heed my words. I have heard nothing but horror stories about this type of setup. Kids need stability and going back and forth will be a nightmare for you. 50/50 is a guilt trip arrangement by one of the parents to convey to the kids that things have not changed, but things have changed. What happens when one of the parents wants to move on with their life, are they still going to want to do a 50/50? Is 50/50 a way of getting out of or reducing child support? You need to think about this very carefully because after this is put in place, it will be hard to remove.

Dejavu: Putting the blame on others is the classic behavior of a WS. That's what they do. Their heads are in the clouds. They don't want to see reality because they are not living in reality.

Wallace: I cannot believe you are still dealing with CS issues. When is your OD wedding?

Avondale: What are you doing for the holidays?

EC: Nice to hear from you again.

Me: I've been very busy to the point of exhaustion. Trying to help friend who has not filed business return for five years. The IRS is trying to eat him alive.

Later.

Petvet,

Thanks for your input. I am considering all that you've written. I can see where this arrangement could be a pain to everyone involved. I'm doing what I can to get things in the best possible position for the girls and I.

Wallace,

Thanks again for all your thoughts. Yes, I do need to get this other wonderful thingy dealt with. I'm hoping and working toward the best outcome in that situation. In fact, I changed lawyers due to my last lawyers attitude toward the situation. I'm much happier with this lawyer.

I feel she is going to protect and fight for my rights in this situation. Hopefully, the situation we're speaking of will not have any bearing on the custody situation once it is resolved. This is funny... I feel like I'm talking in code. Hopefully, you can all follow my "spy speak" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Avondale,

Thanks for listening the other night. As I told Wallace, the appointment with the attorney went well. I feel much better working with this lady. Hope you have a nice weekend! Mine is quiet as the girls are gone with their dad. Hopefully, they're having fun going through the rapids together.

DejaVu,

Hi there. Thanks for your thoughts and well wishes through all of this. We will keep encouraging each other to be strong and to be careful of what we listen to and believe. How has it been going? Have you been able to stay away from the "shmooze"? That's what I call all my H's "sweet talk". I keep watching the actions and being very careful of the words. Keep looking up Deja Vu.

Hi Trusting Him, E.C. , Relady and Everyone Else

Hope all of you are enjoying a great weekend!

Hey y'all!
It isn't often that [color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] posts on the weekend. Are you still seeing your "Buddy" ?

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I'm glad your appointment went well. I guess that's confirmation that changing lawyers was a good move. I had to laugh when I read your comment about "spy speak". That's exactly what we're doing, LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - Has anything more happened with you? What was the "fallout" after that email you sent your H ?

Hope [color:"blue"] everyone [/color] has a good weekend.

Quote

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - Has anything more happened with you? What was the "fallout" after that email you sent your H ?

Well, I forwarded the stuff to H from my attorney on Thursday - it showed that he owes me 6 figures from the house! I was expecting an explosion. Instead, I got a phone call (message left while I was gone) and an E-Mail saying to call him (this of course he wants to do this over the phone or in person, because that's what he always wants to do). He was very cordial. He thanked me for forwarding this to him. He said he didn't really understand the figures but it didn't matter - at this point he just wants to know what I'm expecting from him. Sounds like he's resigned to whatever I say at this point.

So, I'm debating - my attorney may be right about what I'm "entitled" to, but it sounds too high to me, and I know he can't come up with that, even if he sells the house. I really don't want to force him to sell the house. That seems too harsh. So, I'm inclined to come up with a number I think might be more doable, and then give him 2 or 3 years to come up with it. That way he could get the place fixed up (like fix the holes he punched in the walls, etc.) - and do some financial planning over the next couple of years. I believe if I give him 3 years, my chances will be better of actually getting the $$. With that and other $$ I should be getting around that same time, I might even be able to semi-retire. Or at least have a decent nest egg to build - something I had thought was history now with this divorce.

I really don't want to talk to him in person. But I'm not sure what the harm would be. Tomorrow I will address this one way or another.

Hey everyone - Petvet, Leah, Wallace, Avondale, Trusting Him, E.C., and anyone else I missed - how are you all? Having a good weekend, I hope!

I have some other news - I met someone today! Though I know it's going nowhere, I don't care because it was a real turning point for me. I'll write more about this later...

Update - the latest (Monday night) is H is debating the $$ my attorney came up with and is trying to manipulate me into accepting less than 1/5 of what my attorney says he owes me. When I don't agree to that, he says, "I thought you didn't want to go the lawyer fight route... it's so sad that it has come to this..." And he's threatening to sell the house so I can see what the real numbers look like. I'm thinking... go ahead. Who suffers if he has to sell the house? Not me. Maybe I won't get my $$, but he's throwing the baby out with the bath water. He'll have nothing either - all to prove a point to me at his own expense. Is that stupid or what?

I think it's idle threats, trying to make me see it his way. (I had told him I'd give him 3 years to get me my $$ - that's lots of time for him to evaluate his strategies.) The amount he wants me to accept is less than 1/2 the equity after paying off the mortgages - and doesn't even take into account that I should first get my initial downpayment back - money that was mine before I ever knew him. He seems to think I should split that with him too.

I don't care if he thinks its sad. I think its sad he had to throw me away, and sad that he thinks he should be able to do that without having to pay any price for it. Sad that he thinks he should get more than I do from the house because he's broke. As if that was the criteria. Sad that he thinks I should give up the assets I had before I met him - even though he signed then away in the prenup (assets I need for future medical needs, which is why they were in the prenup to begin with).

He had insisted we talk on the phone, and I opted for E-Mail instead. He's trying to find every way he can to wear me down and give in.

Hi all!

Avondale: Yes, I posted on the weekend. As I have said before, I need to get back into the swing of things with this thread. Oh! yes Buddy & I are still an item. We are cruising right along. Thanks for asking. What are you doing for the 4th?

Leah & Dejavu: You guys need to hold your WS to their responsibilities. Be fair but don't be foolish. It takes alot of money to take care of a house and kids. Kids can eat like hogs you know. Since your WS want their freedom, let them pay for it. Freedom comes at a price. Don't let them guilt trip you.

Wallace: What are your plans for the 4th?

Me: I am going to the Big Easy for the 4th. I have a question for everyone. What is the opinion about prenups? Honestly, are they a good thing?

Later.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Did you tell your H that you would settle for less than what the lawyer said in an effort to compromise? If so, and he's still balking (and offering 1/5 of that even with your generous 2-3 year time frame) then it would appear that your lawyer may have to step in. Remember, even though you are paying for them, one of their purposes is to be the intermediary when you and H can't agree.(I know you know that!) How can your H sell the house without your approval? Doesn't your name need to be on the listing contract or something?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - My opinion on prenups is this: When I was 20 years old I had no assets and therefore didn't need one when we got married. If I ever get married again (and I may not!) then I would definitely have one, simply cuz I now have assets (house, investments, etc.). Those of any age with assets should probably have a prenup, and if their fiancee really loves them, they would be cool with it. I think when one gets my age (45+) it's a lot more common than with people who are younger, especially with those who have been married before, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ARE YOU ASKING BECAUSE YOU'RE THINKING OF GETTING MARRIED SOON? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]Me [/color] - For July 4th my son will be home that week, so we might do the cookout thing...then he'll probably go hear some band play and I'll recuperate from the whirlwind of activity that surrounds him, LOL

How's [color:"blue"]everyone else [/color] doing? What are your plans for July 4th?

Petvet,

Glad to hear you and Buddy are going strong. Prenup? Sounds like wedding bells might be in your future. I agree with Avondale about the wisdom of having a prenup. There's the silly, romantic side of me that would hate to have one but there is also the practical side that could certainly appreciate having one. Whether or not I would have one would probably depend on who I marry and what the circumstances are surrounding the marriage.

I'm still trying to follow your advice regarding not being foolish with giving too much away when it comes to a divorce. I'm trying to find the balance of being wise but not greedy. [color:"blue"] [/color] [color:"blue"] [/color]

[color:"purple"] [/color] Avondale,

Sounds like good plans for the fourth. I think I'll be heading to the beach to see my sister. I hope you have a good holiday.
[color:"purple"] [/color]

[color:"red"] [/color] Deja VU,

Your husband reminds me so much of mine. He is using some of the same lines. I'm trying to not be intimidated by his threats. Like you, I've been trying to negotiate things with husband but am finding I probably need to turn things over to my lawyer. It's hard isn't it? Hang in there and have a good day. [color:"red"] [/color]

[color:"blue"] [/color] Hi Everyone else - Hope you're all doing well! [color:"blue"] [/color]

Hi... Just wanted to ask how do you get colors? I keep trying to use the colors but it doesn't take. I click on the color and it comes up on the screen as saying blue or whatever but then when I post it's still all black and white. What am I forgetting? Thanks from your incompetent computer friend.

[color:"#ff1123"]Leah [/color] - (my computer friend)
In these bulletin boards, every color has a "hex" number code. There are thousands available, many more than just the eleven shown here at MB. There are two methods (that I know of) to add [color:"green"] colors [/color] .

Option #1) Make sure you reply to a specific post (using the reply button on the banner of that post)instead of the handy "open window" at the bottom of the page, [color:"brown"] OR
[/color]
Option #2) If you use the "open window" at the bottom of the page, make sure you check [color:"660077"]"preview my post". [/color]

[color:"147CB5"] THEN[/color] , (either way) you are in the window that has the smileys, UBB codes, and font colors. If you chose option #1, you will type the text in the preview window and can add color as you go [color : blue] [color:"blue"] THE TEXT NEEDS TO BE BETWEEN THESE CODES [/color] [/ color] to be color. (I fixed the codes so you can see what I'm talking about - normally they're computer [color:"aa555"]magic [/color] and aren't visible once the page is posted).

If you choose [color:"880044"]option #2 [/color] , and your text is already typed but you're previewing it, you can still add color by highlighting the text you want to be colored, hit [color:"666633"]"CTRL key and letter C" [/color] at same time (this is "copy" shortcut) and then hit the color button. This will erase the word you wanted to be color, but if you then position your cursor between the codes (as outlined above) and choose [color:"992244"]"CTRL key and letter V " [/color] at the same time (this is paste shortcut) then the word you highlighted will be color. [color:"orange"] You can always preview this again to confirm you did it right [/color] .

[color:"red"] Avondale [/color] - I have forwarded everything to my attorney and asked H to call him. The latest - today - is two E-mails saying basically the attorney doesn't know about the contributions H made so therefore isn't considering everything. So, I wonder, why doesn't he call him then?

And saying how he misjudged my "character" - thinking I would be a fair person.

I got to tell you - his E-Mails are making me feel terrible. I am really confused. I don't want to destroy him like he says I am trying to do. But he also selectively forgets his awful role the first 5 years of our M. And the fact this WAS his idea - but he didn't count on things working out this way. The thing is, he really thinks I'm destroying him and I'm sure will tell everyone that. We do travel in the same circles.

[color:"red"] Petvet [/color] I had a prenup. Ask me when this is over with, if it did me any good or not.

Hi everyone,

Well, I guess where do I start since I have my war face on with my CS issues going on as we speak. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]leah... [/color]

You can just call me Bond... James Bond.

That was funny... spy speak... LOL, if that's what we have to do, then so be it. (I'm going to qualify this for all... this has nothing to do with anyone on this thread or on this board for those of you that may not be informed).

Anyway... it sounds like you made a good move by getting rid of one attorney in favor for one that will fight for you.

This is for both you and [color:"red"]Deja Vu [/color], and as much as I hate to say it... you both are in a war with your spouses... and it's a take no prisoner type of war.

leah... keep us informed as things progress here, as I believe you made a wise decision, and get that other little thing taken care of before you head in to "D" Court. You really need to get that reduced or dismissed if at all possible... preferably dismissed.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color]

Glad to hear that you had a prenup, and I'm sure you have pulled it by now. If you haven't... then pull it out now!

IMHO, and I'm kinda like this... My exW and I use to run around the same circles... but I decided I didn't like these people, so I went for the take no prisoners approach... and I said goodbye to all those phony people... and made all new friends at Church, and at other variuos meeting places.

Your being more than nice with your "H", and I would just say, "this is it my friend"... take or leave it! I guess he should of thought about that while he was out there playing the fool.

It sounds to me... like he is trying to take advantage of you by playing the sympathy card. I wouldn't let him get away with it.

[color:"blue"]Petvet... [/color]

A Prenup?

Never leave home without it!

I've already told my G/F that there will be prenups. At first, she didn't like it... I wouldn't consider anything less my friend. avondale hit the nail right on the head as always.

I'm just going to hang out in Denver for the 4th.

Go out to a baseball game with G/F and Kids... watch the Rockies lose, and enjoy the fireworks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]avondale... [/color]

Sounds like your going to have nice 4th.

Are you excited about your Son being there?

I know how you both got along some time ago... hopefully it's doing better now.

Well all... I have to go move furniture for my G/F that I already moved once already... I'm really starting to dislike this HGTV channel.

Hope everyone else is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

DeJavu: It's kinda funny. We have all heard the old "you are trying to destroy me ploy" given by the WS. You are correct when you said that you are hearing the same thing from your H that Leah is hearing from her H. Most WS are all the same. They play the same games. When I made the comment about being foolish, I was not calling you foolish, but I was warning you to be wise to not give up too much that you may need later.

Avondale: I did not know you had a son. Did you bring up his existence before? I may have just forgotten. Does he have any contact with his Father?

Wallace: Your GF is a spend thrift huh? I hope she has has a large basement and garage because she will be using them.

Me: My reason for asking about the prenup is Christians types like pastors or the like are against them. I am told it is a power play. I guess it depends on how it is worded. I think Avondale's comment about if someone really loves a person they would agree to a prenup is not necessarily a fair accessment. For some reason, I think the wording is important.

Later.

I'm about to head off for the weekend and won't be back until next Tuesday. Hope you all have a great 4th weekend!

Petvet - I'm having a hard time dealing with his demands and control efforts. I am also about to get a restraining order against the phone calls and E-Mails. He continues to bombard me - now, after asking what I wanted so he could figure out how to get it, he's making me his "final offer" which is nowhere even close to ANY calculations for half the equity. I have no idea where he's getting the number, but he seems confident he can get it. My attorney is going to cost me a fortune now - and says I won't even be able to make H pay the fees.

I am steaming mad. I can't tell you how mad I am.

For someone as broke as he is, I'm wondering how HE is affording the attorney fees.

[color:"red"] Guess I'd better say "Happy 4th" too. I've got a few social things cooking (literally and figuratively) and don't want to miss anyone else who might be going out of town. [/color]

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I sympathize with your situation! Have you considered asking your H where he DID get those numbers? If they're so far off, can you account for the differences and it's due to your difference of opinions, or is it possible you've overlooked something? (you don't seem like the type to overlook, but just a thought) I guess your H is just carrying his "fogspeak" into his paperwork. Sorry. You were going to write about "meeting someone" too...don't forget!

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Yes, I have an 25 yr old son who is a long-distance truck driver. He is home every 5-6 weeks or so for about a week of R&R. Ironically, H and I had to "tough love" him together while I was doing "tough love" towards my H. Talk about stress, LOL

More on Prenups - I am a Bible-believing, God-fearing Christian. I would definitely have a prenup if I were to get married. It just makes sense, and protects my assets (meager as they are) for my kids. I think one can be wise (with prenups) and in love at the same time. In fact, you could say it's a loving thing to be wise with a prenup!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - Did we lose you with the color posting?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I had to laugh at your dislike of HGTV. I bet lots of guys would agree!

[color:"blue"] EC, Relady [/color] , anyone else I missed - Happy Independence Day

[color:"blue"] [/color] Avondale, [color:"blue"] [/color]

Thank you so much for educating your little friend. I thought that was what I was doing. I'm so curious to see if this works. You are always so helpful in everything from computer help to wisdom in dealing with heartache. Thanks for being a good friend.

[color:"purple"] [/color] Deja Vu [color:"purple"] [/color]

I'm not sure if you saw my last post to you in regard to our husbands using the same tactics. I can't tell you how many times my H has made me feel like I'm being unreasonable and greedy. All this while I'm being told by lawyer that I'm entitled to so much more than what he's offering.

If you're H is like mine, he is so very convincing. The resullt of such conversations leave you feeling confused and undeserving of anything you think is reasonable. I have to be so careful what I take in when it comes to such conversations Stay strong to all the verbage.

You're in a situation where you can more easily cut yourself off from such communication. With sharing our three girls and constant back and forth, it necessitates a certain amount of communication. Please be careful and hold on to truth. You're going to get through this and we're here to help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] [/color] Wallace [color:"red"] [/color]

Thanks for all your input with your special spy language. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That's nice of you to help g/f with furniture moving. I'm sure you are a big support to her in so many ways. No wonder she keeps wanting you to get married soon. She knows a good thing when she sees it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

PETVET,

Hope you and Buddy enjoy a happy weekend! Have you ever mentioned a prenup to her? Do you think she would be accepting of it?
As I wrote before, having been here, I could certainly appreciate the wisdom of having one. Has Buddy been through a divorce? If so she most likely would be understanding of having one.

[color:"red"] [/color] Happy Fourth of July to all my Tough Love Friends!! Hope you have a great weekend! [color:red [color:"red"]

Petvet , I keep trying to make your name bold back where my message is to you but it keeps putting me back at the bottom <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I'm so not a computer person....

Avondale,

It didn't work- so sad... I guess it's not meant for me to write in color <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the lesson. I'll try option 2 next time. Maybe that will work better. I followed option 1 as I have in the past, but alas, it didn't take. I guess I shall remain a black and white person. Hope you're having a nice weekend with your son. I'll try to give you a buzz before too long.

That is so funny.... How did that happen? I got color this time when I wasn't trying. I had formerly tried to put names in color and wish everyone a Happy Fourth in red. When I first posted there was no color. When I edited it to give AVONDALE and PETVET a message, it turned red. One never knows what might happen on this happy forum. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Avondale [/color]

Quote

- I sympathize with your situation! Have you considered asking your H where he DID get those numbers? If they're so far off, can you account for the differences and it's due to your difference of opinions, or is it possible you've overlooked something? (you don't seem like the type to overlook, but just a thought)

I know where he's getting his numbers - he's using creative accounting. He took $$ from his IRA to pay me part of what I had coming - and then wanted me to share his IRS penalties, which effectively reduced the amount I got. Since he wouldn't listen when I suggested he call the accountant first, he failed to learn how to prevent the penalties, and then wanted me to share in the results of his incompetence. He also forgets that he's in financial trouble now because of his choices, and there is still equity in the house even though he doesn't have access to it. So, he's not even counting that equity - just looking at his sitch and complaining about being broke. He thought he could end his M, move on to a happy single life, and keep his standard of living as it was. Hah! And since everything is about him, he only sees the disappointment HE is experiencing in the loss of HIS standard of living. He doesn't see - or even listen when I tell him - how significantly MY standard of living has also changed.

BTW - my attorney and I have BOTH come up with different numbers from H. I did not overlook anything, but H certainly did. Like my prenup, like the idea of SHARING equity...

Quote

You were going to write about "meeting someone" too...don't forget!

Yes! It was at my father's 80th BDay party. This guy is too young for me, but it was wonderful to feel attracted again, and wonderful to have someone flirting with me. It seemed genuine too. He is from the "old country" (where my dad is from, and that's how this guy knows my dad). Given that I'm a first gen American, and have traveled back a couple of times now, I know enough to know that values between his country and mine are quite different. In a good way, I think. More focused on family and values, and less on me me me and superficialities.

The disappointing part was that I realized something about myself I didn't like. Something that might be the problem with all my previous relationships though - so maybe a good thing to recognize. Part of my attraction to this guy was that he looked up to me and admired me for what I've accomplished in life. And I liked that. Maybe too much.

This could be OK if done in a healthy way - BUT my first 2 H's I believe used me as a stepping stone to what I had that they wanted. I think I was drawn to them because they would not challenge me, and I didn't want a man who would expect me to be second fiddle to his life. I think I subconsciously picked men who would be second fiddle to me. Instead of being an equal. Well, I got that - even though I would not have said I wanted that and did not recognize I was doing that. I guess all the self-scrutiny I've been doing lately is showing me a side of myself I don't like, but need to face.

I saw myself falling into that same pattern with this guy I met. Part of my attraction to him was his looking up to me. For that reason alone, though there are many other reasons as well, I would NOT go out with him.

[color:"blue"] Leah: [/color]

Quote

I'm not sure if you saw my last post to you in regard to our husbands using the same tactics. I can't tell you how many times my H has made me feel like I'm being unreasonable and greedy. All this while I'm being told by lawyer that I'm entitled to so much more than what he's offering.

If you're H is like mine, he is so very convincing. The resullt of such conversations leave you feeling confused and undeserving of anything you think is reasonable. I have to be so careful what I take in when it comes to such conversations Stay strong to all the verbage.

I thought I'd replied to everything before I left for the weekend - so, I'm sorry if I didn't reply to yours. Yes, I did see your post about this. You have exactly described how I'm feeling. Thankfully for attorneys - if nothing else, for validating that I'm not the one who is crazy. H didn't want attorneys involved - my attorney says this is because he knew he was taking me to the cleaners. I still have trouble believing that - I don't think he's competent or knowledgeable enough - but I am trusting my attorney on this.

Quote

You're in a situation where you can more easily cut yourself off from such communication.

My attorney said he was sending H an E-Mail telling him he should get his own attorney now - and to stop trying to discuss this with me any more. I got back from out of town last night, and there were NO E-Mails or phone calls from H. So... that's good. But unfortunately I will have to see him next weekend at the trials. Because I'm the one doing the trial paperwork, I won't have the option of leaving if it gets rough - so I'm hoping I can cope with his presence.

Well, too good to be true. I should have known. I have gotten 2 calls from H - last night and tonight. Didn't answer either one. The first one was in a snotty tone of voice and tried to prey on my wishes to not have conflict by telling me he really didn't want to "have to" discuss this over the weekend (where we will run into each other, and where I'm working all weekend - captive audience and lots of people around).

Meanwhile he got my attorney's E-Mail. So tonight's phone call reminded me that he really doesn't want to go this route, and he is giving me another chance to talk. As if my chances are his to give. And this is the last time he will call me about this. Good! My attorney says of course he doesn't want to go this route because then he can't screw me out of my share.

When I've fallen for this line and responded (by E-Mail) and told him what I want, he responded by manipulative tactics, making HIS offers to me (as if it was up to him to "give" me my share of the house) - and finally trying to guilt me into what he wants ("this is so sad..."). My attorney has read the correspondence and is disgusted. H keeps insisting "we" need to talk, which I believe means "you haven't given in to my demands yet..."

Nevertheless, I DO feel bad. Why? Why? My attorney believes he's been manipulating me forever and I've been trying to avoid his anger and letting him get his way all this time. Funny, I never thought this was the case... but now, I'm not so sure. Still, is this 20 years of habits or what? I am really questioning the whole thing, feeling like this man whom I loved and considered my friend ought to be someone I can talk to reasonably. I somehow am having thoughts that if I talk to him, the result will be different next time. (I know, I know - the definition of insanity - do the same thing and expect a different result.)

Just had to share this - get it off my chest - because I am NOT going to give in to this erroneous line of thinking. I know in my mind that H is trying to get me to think this way so I'll talk to him. I'm sure he thinks if we talk in person, he'll be able to convince me. He has consistently insisted we talk instead of E-Mail.

I am, however, tempted to write him an E-Mail letting hiim know that I see through him, and that he cannot be trusted to treat me fairly. Would there be any value in this? I don't know... make me feel better, maybe. Affirmation of my position, maybe.

I sure hope I can stay strong through the weekend. Wish I could quit thinking about this.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color]
Don't send him an email...it will only mean you are stooping to his level AND show him that he's getting to you. Ignore it, and ignore him as much as possible. I know this weekend will be tough for you but as Wallace says, "Be Strong!" Stick to email contact (if even that) only.

Is there any division of "property" involved in your weekend activities? Are the lines of what is yours/his pretty well defined?

[color:"blue"] [/color] Deja Vu [color:"blue"] [/color]

You can stay strong to him. We're all here rooting for you! It's so interesting when I read your posts, it helps me stay strong. Those two must be taking lessons from each other. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This past week my H asked me a question to which I replied, "I'd rather not share that info. with you" It was an attorney related question. He acted in shock and said, "You act as if you don't think I'm on YOUR side, as if I don't support you" I calmly replied that I didn't feel he was. He angrily said goodbye and hung up.

In the past when he acted this way, I would quickly say how I was wrong...how I misjudged him... that I'm sure he does care and so forth. I'm not letting myself go there anymore. Reality is now here. The fantasy is gone. I'm calling a spade a spade. H doesn't like it.

[color:"purple"] [/color] Hope all of the "Tough Love" gang is doing well. Enjoy your weekend and check in when you can! [color:"purple"] [/color]

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color]
Wow, I'm VERY impressed with you standing up to your H. Granted, it was on the phone but I think you could have said it in person, too. That is a big step for you to not back down. You rock! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]Leah:[/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Whoo hoo! Good for you. I know how hard it is to do what you did, and how easy to second guess and want to believe the best in someone else. Especially someone you thought you knew and loved.

[color:"red"]Avondale:[/color] I did not write or send any E-Mails. Still feeling the need to articulate and sort out the craziness from the reality; still feeling the need to cut through the BS. But, maybe I just need to do this for ME and not to send to him. I have always been able to win any battle of wits with him, and part of me wants to slap him upside the head with the harsh reality of the situation. Wanting to make him face the same reality I have had to, and stop the false pretenses he's using on me (not rational, huh?) How dare he - or Leah's H either - be able to dance their way through this as if they were planning a vacation instead of a divorce? And pretending they are kind people, so noble, considerate, and thoughtful - as if saying so makes it so. NOT!

[color:"red"]Leah:[/color] - does this resonate with you too?

[color:"red"]Wallace, Petvet, and everyone else who has been so quiet lately:[/color] - I hope you're all quiet because life is dishing out bowls full of cherries to you! Stop in and share...

Hi all! it sounds like everyone was busy over the 4th. I know I was.

Avondale: The colors thing is real cute. I think Buddy would ask me to sign a prenup. I would need to consult with an attorney to learn more about prenups. She is older than I am and has more assets. I don't want to take anything away from her child. My problem is I know my work longevity will be longer than hers; therefore, I will probably generate more assets post marriage since she will be retiring before I will. Do you understand what I am saying? I just want things to be fair and not one sided.

Dejavu: Why can't you go for attorney fees against your H? He was the one who commited adultery. I would stop communicating with H, and only go through your attorney. I would ask attorney whether you could pay her after the D settlement or rulng from your equity. You cannot do this thing on your own. You may have to get another attorney who is cheaper.

Leah: Stay strong.

Wallace: What's going on?

Me: Staying busy and getting ready to go on vacation.

Later.

Quote

Dejavu: Why can't you go for attorney fees against your H? He was the one who commited adultery.

Because in MN they usually rule that each spouse pays their own legal fees. Besides, I don't know that I want to fight that battle too, esp since I know there's no $$ there anyway.

BTW - there was no adultery.

Quote

I would stop communicating with H, and only go through your attorney. I would ask attorney whether you could pay her after the D settlement or rulng from your equity. You cannot do this thing on your own. You may have to get another attorney who is cheaper.

Have already stopped communicating with him directly. This weekend he was at the show... I ignored him and we didn't share even a single word.

I do not want to change attorneys. Old family friend, AND someone who DOES win and my H knows this.

[color:"red"]Anyone else have anything new to report from the weekend? How is everyone? [/color]

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I'm glad there were no "incidents" from the weekend. I thought of you on Saturday and hoped you'd be OK. Was this at a show? How did your dog(s) do?

As for [color:"blue"] me [/color] , nothing new to report. But after reading (and posting a little) on the After Divorce/Dating board, I feel confirmed in my belief that I'm not interested in dating. And I am soooo at peace with that, it's not even funny! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> If I die without ever being in another relationship, that's OK.

Quote

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I'm glad there were no "incidents" from the weekend. I thought of you on Saturday and hoped you'd be OK. Was this at a show? How did your dog(s) do?

How nice of you to think of me! Yes it was at a show. I had one dog entered, and he and I bombed all weekend. The previous weekend was 100% success; this weekend 100% failure. But, he is getting old now, so it will be this way from now on.

Hey All,

Took an impromptu vacation.

Didn't really go anywhere special... just took care of a few things, and then enjoyed my OS's B-day with all my kids for a good part of last week.

Finally got the CS issue out of the way... that one was really working me, I'm glad that's over with for now.

Spent some time with my G/F and we got a few things settled, for the moment anyway.

Glad to see everyone standing up for the right thing. It's good to hear Leah, and Deja Vu, that your both taking a stand a sticking with it. Don't let them push you around!

It's a new ball game your in, and you need to work hard in order to come out through this without any problems later on down the road. I know how draining it can be... but you both must stick with it.

[color:"blue"]Petvet... [/color]

If I didn't know better (and I do... lol), I would say that there is the sound of wedding bells coming your way.

Just think... everyone thought I was going to be the first one getting married again. If I do go through with getting married again, it will be at least one more year, but more than likely two years away.

[color:"blue"]avondale... [/color]

I know how you feel about the dating thing.

If my G/F and I don't work out... I'll probably take a very long break from dating. It's like I have always maintained... I like being single.

Well I hope everyone had a nice 4th of July... I had a great time.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Avondale: I am going to take your no dating attitude as a case of needing a break. I think your behavior will change in a couple of months.

Dejavu: Thanks for the clarification on the fee and attorney issue. You seem to be on the right track. I was thinking about your comment on winning one weekend and losing the next. That is the damnest thing about showing dogs. It's all about the judges. As you know, there are some exhibitors who chase certain judges around the country in order to get their dogs finished. Of course, you and I know about those judges who favor certain professional handlers regardless of the dogs at the end of the leash. You know something, you may want to consider having someone else show your dogs while you go through your family issues. You just put yourself through the cooker whenever you run into your h at the shows.

Wallace: Oh no, you are going to win the "first to get married" award. You have been designated the chosen one. We have to keep the spotlight on you. To be serious, I am going through indepth evaluations on many issues to make sure their are no surprises and that we know how to work through certian issues before "The Day" comes. Who knows,I may beat you!

Me: Going to Vegas tomorrow. My favorite city to visit.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color]
There's a discussion about pre-nups on the Divorced/Dating board. Here's the link: Pre-nup Thread

I'd have to agree with Avondale on the no dating thing. while there are groups of people and friends tht I go out with I have not crossed that line or reached that point in life where I feel I am ready to date. I actually enjoy being single. Granted I miss my children and some of the joys that come with a family and marriage but not enough to get into a serious dating reltionship with another person. At least not yet...

Quote

Dejavu: ...You know something, you may want to consider having someone else show your dogs while you go through your family issues. You just put yourself through the cooker whenever you run into your h at the shows.

Well, I show in agility so that's not really an option. At least he's competing at a different level than I am so we're not in the ring together.

[color:"red"]Wallace, PetVet - [/color]
Even if neither of you gets married, it's encouraging to think you're able to at least consider it again. I truly wish the best for you both.

I really doubt if I will ever be willing to consider it again. Or dating either. I'm with Avondale on this one. I feel like I should want it again. Did you guys go through that too?

Hi Deja Vu,

Thanks for wishing the best for both Petvet and myself. I personally wish the best for you as well Deja Vu.

To answer your question, about wanting it again? Hopefully I'm on the same page as you are... but did I want it again?

To answer your question... The only thing that I ever really wanted was my family to be as a whole, not fragmented, and not destroyed.

So what I wanted, never came to fruition.

After it was all said and done with... I never really wanted much of anything, aside from myself and my kids to attempt to become whole again... that was my main focus.

I think that I may have acheived that... but I will probably never really know that for sure.

As time goes on... I'm realizing, that it takes a lot more to make a relationship work, than what it use to in days gone by... and I'm not sure that I have really have anymore left to put forth to make a relationship work.

Soooo... do I really want it?

I guess the answer is no.

My dreams, my aspirations, and everything that I had put forth... was in fact destroyed. it was just a matter of picking up the pieces... kinda like "Humpty Dumpty".

For me... there are no more illusions... we have all been to the puppet show, and I think most of us have seen it all.

I don't know if I answered your question... but I gave it a hell of a try.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color]
Did you have some wine when you typed that post? It was very "down" and you sounded...well, kinda depressed. Is everything OK? I think you're right about it taking energy to continue a relationship and as we get older, we have other responsibilities that need/use our energy. But then I think - if the relationship is "love" then shouldn't it, in and of itself, be energizing?? Hmmm...just some ramblings from me (the one who is never going to get married again).

Hey All,

avondale...

After reading the post... it does sound like I'm depressed.

With everything going on right now... G/F, Lawyers, Court, and the continuous filing of all of these papers to the Courts... I think because of all the CS Court issues (which I though were over)... maybe it's starting to get to me.

I just take each day as it comes now... and to answer your question... I was drinking a glass of wine at the time I posted.

I'm all right though... I just wish I could move on with my life and put all of this back story stuff behind me. Aside from that... life is pretty good!

So your never getting married again?

Did I read that right since I can't flip back without losing everything?

I'm starting to have some seriuos second thoughts about getting married again... I'm not sure I can start over in a new marriage.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all! I made it back in one piece. Vegas was 113 degrees plus.

Avondale: Thanks for the reference.

Dejavu: I always knew that I wanted to get back into another relationship. I believe in the marriage institution. I chalk my experience as having made a bad choice. My main point was to learn from my mistakes and learn to become a better partner; however, with that all said, I am shell shocked. As Wallace indicated, my main point in my last marriage was to keep the family together at the very least. I figured what's good for the child is good for me, but my former did not share my opinion. I certainly don't want to fail again. It takes a whole lot of work to make a marriage work especially after you have baggage. Marraige works best when you have less baggage. I have to admit that I am rather shock that Avondale and some others are anti-relationships. It bothers me to be honest with you.We have to learn from our experiences and keep moving forward. As Wallace said, when one gets married the first time, one is bright eyed and bushy tailed. Now, after a D, one is war torn. We have to wear our war scars with pride and use them to help us make better judgements in the future.

Me: I'm doing good.

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[color:"blue"] Petvet said: [/color]
I am rather shock that Avondale and some others are anti-relationships.

Let me clarify - I am not anti-relationship. I am pro-marriage. However, I am quite at peace with myself, where I'm at spiritually and in every other way. I don't feel incomplete as I am now. Some people look for others to fill needs in their life (I'm not saying you are) and I'm not doing that. Does that make sense?

Hey Petvet - how much money did you win/lose in Vegas?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Interesting discussion - I'm not sure where I weigh in on the issue of relationships and marriage. At this point in my life, I'm not sure what the purpose would be for getting married again. I'd like to believe that a long term committed relationship can be better than going it alone. Right now, I'm not sure I believe that. I guess I really feel I need and want time to be alone, for awhile at least. I have some friends who have been a couple for several years now, but they each have their own houses and seem happy that way. I could see doing that.

For me I don't think it's about war scars. It's about the relief I feel when I go home at night to a peaceful home. It's about being able to say no to things I don't want to do. It's about having cheese and crackers for dinner and not having to apologize to anyone for it - and not having to eat my crackers at the appropriate "dinner time". I guess the last 20 years of marriage is all I can relate to now about how it really works, and I don't want to live that way anymore.

On another note, I'm getting concerned that my H suddenly has gone dark - from chomping at the bit to get things done to nothing at all, now that my attorney told him he's being unfair and that I've asked that he not contact me about it any longer. I'm worried about what he has up his sleeve.

It's very hard to maintain this silence and limbo. I don't know if I can explain it, but I feel this overwhelming need to make the conflict go away. To find a mutual solution. To separate the financial stuff from other stuff, and to ask how he's doing. Yet, I realize that's what I've always done. I've been the one to find solutions, and the one to suffer when we couldn't both get what we wanted.

Don't worry - for all of you who tell me to be strong - I'm not going to cave. I'm too angry to cave in.

I've been reading about narcissism ("Why is it Always About You?"). I realize that he isn't ever going to understand my views, as doing so would mean facing his own problems and he doesn't think he has any. Which is one of the traits of a narcissist. So, it's a double edged sword. I remember when I asked him (OK, it was sort of an ultimatum) to get help for himself several years ago. He went into counseling and would not talk about it to me - which was OK with me at the time. I later found out the entire time he spent trying to figure out how to get over being mad at his mother for how badly she'd treated him. Nothing at all about himself, his behavior, his attitudes... it was all about his mother and what she did to him. Then he decided he wasn't mad at her anymore, and therefore no longer needed counseling.

I am SO impatient to get on with things. Some days I can't stand this!

Hi all!

Dejavu: The reason why you fell you are in limbo is because you are in limbo. These types of situations don't go away quickly. It's like having a ton of bricks on your shoulder. It can wear on you emotionally. Question: This couple friends of yours, are they married or are they just a committed couple who live in separate households.

Avondale: I understand. I go back and forth as to whether I want to go it alone but companionship is nice at times. As far as what I won, I only gamble $3-$5 bucks. The casinos don't accept coins anymore. You have to put down a minimum of $1 (depending on the machine) on a card that can be used in the slot machines. I was told this method is much quieter, but the main reason is to keep as much money as possible from leaving the casinos.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color]
How are things progressing for you on the legal end of things? Are you waiting on your H or his lawyer to do/sign/instigate something? Everyone here knows all about being in limbo! It sucks, plain and simple. Just take it one day at a time, one step at a time.
I know you still (and perhaps always will) care about your H and ‘how he’s doing’. Remind yourself he’s a big boy and can (and SHOULD) handle things himself.

As for not hearing from your H....how concerning is this? Do you think he could do something ugly? Or maybe he’s doing a “Plan B” on you?

Where is everyone these days? [color:"purple"] Trusting? [/color] [color:"orange"] Relady? [/color] [color:"green"] Leah? [/color] [color:"red"] EC? [/color] And there's probably someone I've missed (but only cuz you haven't posted recently!)

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Dejavu: Question: This couple friends of yours, are they married or are they just a committed couple who live in separate households.

Not married. They each own their own homes. Seems like the best of both worlds (to me, right now, anyway.)

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As for not hearing from your H....how concerning is this? Do you think he could do something ugly? Or maybe he’s doing a “Plan B” on you?

I think he's trying to find some way to bleed more $$ out of me. My attorney mentioned at one point that if he lost his job he might go after me for support. H had mentioned he was about to be fired.

I also learned from my realtor who checked the county records that our old house is deeded to me alone. H was never on the deed! What a surprise. You can check these records on line, so I did that and confirmed it is true. SO, what if he stops making payments - they'll come after me for property taxes.

H has already suggested he is entitled to half the equity in this house, which means I'll have to trace all the $$ that went into it so far to prove the equity belongs to me. But the longer this drags on the worse it could get if my house appreciates.

He also thinks he supported us and should be entitled to more of the equity than I am. It is only in the past 4 years that he made more than I did, plus initially I had $$ and he had nothing. This was in the prenup that I was entitled to my original $$. Trouble is I'd have to figure out how to trace 20 years worth of records, and you know you only need to keep records for 7 years. So I don't know what I kept and what I didn't - or what is with the house records that he kept.

So, I'm wracking my brain to see what he might dream up. Tomorrow I will ask my attorney if there is something we can do immediately to protect me and freeze things at a point in time.

Wow [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] that bites! Can you confirm, perhaps online, that he's making the payments on the house? It seems if the title is in only your name, that might work FOR you, not against you, in settlement. Do you have a timeline for things (either thru your atty or in your own mind) or are you willing to take it slowly? Or maybe you're still putting your H in the driver's seat...?

Just talked to my ISP... have bought a new domain and changed my E-Mail as I found everything I write - or have forwarded to me from here - is accessible to H. That's stopping RIGHT NOW.

I also talked to my attorney. We are going on the offense now. My timeline is YESTERDAY.

As soon as I know the E-Mail thing is resolved, I'll feel more free to talk about this.

Hope all is well with the rest of you!

Update: My attorney has now contacted H again. This time he asked him if he has an attorney, and to have him/her contact my attorney. Or if he doesn't have one, to let my attorney know that too - because if we don't hear from him soon we are going to proceed to initiate the paperwork ourselves. He also left the door open for something short of that to happen. If H wants to agree on what we are going to do next, we can still file a simpler set of paperwork ourselves.

Another update: last night I was teaching at the dog club, and one of my former students came up to me and said she and her new pup had run into my H over the weekend. Her pup was terrified of him - the first and only person the pup has reacted to like that. Nothing H did, including getting down on the ground with the pup, worked. The pup was having no part of him. (I have met the pup and thought he was very outgoing and friendly).

Two of my own dogs had a similar reaction when we ran into H a couple months after I moved out. They were in the car when H came over to give me some things. Neither of them would greet him, and the young one acted afraid. I thought it odd at that time, as both had been raised with him. But H had/has a terrible temper, and many times I would have a room full of dogs, running to me for protection. I have always trusted the instinct of my dogs about people. Oddly enough, when I met H over 20 years ago, he had the opposite effect on the dogs I had then, including one that was very unaccepting of strangers and actually liked my H.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I think your atty did the right thing - all the bases were covered and it still allowed your H to have some sort of "control" (in his own mind) of the situation. It's all about perception, isn't it?

What kind of dogs do you show? I can't remember if you said that before.

I show dogs in performance events - not for appearance, and I do not breed dogs. Right now I have spaniels and a border collie.

Hey All,

Well I think I've gotten through my CS issues for about the fourth time... so hopefully it's settled.

Deja Vu...

Just a word of caution concerning your house. Since it's only in your name, and your name only... I would keep very close tabs on whether your "H" is making the payments, and making them timely.

Through personal experience that I've been through... it would be a good idea to really follow up on that and make sure the payments are being made.

Petvet, avondale, leah, Trusting Him, Deja Vu, relady, and EC, I hope your all doing well.

I myself have been real busy... lot of things going on, but it looks as if I might be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel finally... after 3 plus years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope everyone has a great day and a great week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Dejavu: A couple of things: 1. As far as I know, it does not matter who makes more money when it comes to spliting equity or money that went into the house especially if both of you work. 2. I agree with Wallace that you need to check whether mortgage payments are being made on your home especially if he may be losing his job. 3. I agree with you that you need to get this thing done soon because if he loses his job, it may impact negatively on the issue. 4. Does he know that you are on this web site? If so, I would STOP discussing your D with us. You don't need to give him anymore clue to your intentions.

Wallace: CS issue? Are you sure it's dead now? It seems to come back to life off and on.

Avondale: I hope all is well.

Me: Question for everyone? Could you be involve in a committed relationship long term (many years or forever) without being married? Keep in mind that your mate or yourself could cut the cord at anytime and make a clean break w/o reprecussion after the investment of time, emotion, etc. Let me know your feelings on the matter. I am doing some serious soul searching. Avondale, Wallace, others: shoot it to me straight.

Later.

Hi all,

Petvet...

I've been doing some soul searching myself as far as my current relationship with my G/F.

To answer your question... yes I believe I could go through a committed relationship long term. In fact according to my G/F I already am, and she doesn't think I will take the plunge (and she may very well be right).

If your considering just staying as a committed couple without marriage... I know a few people that are not living together, and they are doing just that... and they seem to be doing fine.

Of course, you both have to have the same mind set about this type of relationship, which is where I am running into problems.

She wants to get married right now... and I'm perfectly happy where our relationship is situated for the time being.

Have you talked about this with your buddy?

If not, you need to have a talk.

Me...

Do I think my CS issues are over? Probably not, but I think for the moment... everything is pretty well settled as best as it can be.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

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Me: Question for everyone? Could you be involve in a committed relationship long term (many years or forever) without being married? Keep in mind that your mate or yourself could cut the cord at anytime and make a clean break w/o reprecussion after the investment of time, emotion, etc. Let me know your feelings on the matter. I am doing some serious soul searching. Avondale, Wallace, others: shoot it to me straight.

Later.

[color:"blue"]I am seeing a guy that had a serious 4 year relationship after his divorce. It was a couple of years after the divorce, so he did have some time to recover and date. She moved in with her children for six months during the third year and then she moved back out. I think that in line with what Harley says - he didn't want to have to make any adjustments to accommodate her living there, and because she had children and his lifestyle does not accommodate children, it was quickly apparent that it would not work out with them living together. They still limped on for another 1 1/2 years.

Fast forward to the now - three years later. We've been seeing each other for over a year and I am struggling with the same issue as you pet. Do I want to see a guy for the next ten years once or twice a week?

I know in my heart that the answer is no.

I actually cruise dating sites and have even gone on a few dates without him knowing about it. For me, there is no committment outside of marriage that precludes other relationships from being a possibility.

Don't get me wrong - I would never want to have a serious dating relationship or physical relationship with two men at the same time. I can not close the door on "looking" though. When I was married I never looked - I don't know why I don't feel the same except for the fact that I am NOT married.

Neither of us have the "right" to draw a line in the sand without the vows. Either of us could just take a walk at any time, so why bother working really really hard at the relationship or even caring if the relationship continues? There are ten other guys out there that would love it if I were available.

I want someone who wants to be with me so badly that they will commit their life to me. I will not let go of my reserve until I get that. If he won't commit, then I'll find someone else who will.

I haven't found anyone that I like as much as I like him, but that doesn't mean that I won't find someone else someday.

You might look at this way: if you were my boyfriend, thinking that I would stick around for 10 years waiting for a committment would be a big mistake.

I've thought about telling my boyfriend how I feel about this, but it seems like an ultimatum. Who wants to marry someone that doesn't want to get married? Who wants to have children and be with someone that can't accommodate their lifestyle to children?

V.[/color]

Petvet,
I will respond after I think on it a little while <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi all!

Sunnyva39: I could not have said it better myelf. You and I are of the same mindset. Your words hit a cord with me. There is a difference between being married and just being a committed couple. Each of us could jump ship very easily w/o the life long commitment. I am still thinking but I am focused in my thought process. Thanks.

Avondale: I can't wait to hear your comment.

Wallace: What do you think about Sunny's comment?

Later.

Hi All,

Sunny...

Thank you for your response to Petvet's question.

I can't agree more with what you stated... who would want to be with someone long term, that is not ready to commit?

The question in my mind is... when does it become time to commit, or not commit?

In my situation... I've reached a cross roads in my relationship with my G/F. Do I want to go through with getting married, or do I just want to break it off with her entirely, as she feels about the same way you do.

Do I want to date her for ten years or longer? The answer to that question would be a resounding no. Do I want to enter into a marriage with issues still on the table... again the answer is no.

For me... I'm not in any real hurry to get married again. If and when I decide to a life long commitment of marriage.

Well, gotta go back to work, hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color]
You come up with the most thought-provoking questions!

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Question for everyone? Could you be involve in a committed relationship long term (many years or forever) without being married? Keep in mind that your mate or yourself could cut the cord at anytime and make a clean break w/o reprecussion after the investment of time, emotion, etc. Let me know your feelings on the matter.

OK...first, let’s define “committed long-term relationship”. There are many different thoughts on what that could be
1) Dating exclusively (with or without sex)
2) Living together
3) Marriage
4) Making the vows (and maybe even exchanging some sort of “token of affection”) without benefit of a legal ceremony
5) probably others but I’m at work and can’t think of them

Obviously we all chose #3 yet our cords were cut with our mates. Having the wedding in front of witnesses didn’t deter our spouses. That being said, a relationship doesn’t become “long term” until after “the term” (time) has passed. Can you say at the onset of a relationship that it will be long-term? No, not any more than we could have said our marriages would have been forever.

What about definition #1? If you’re dating exclusively, does it mean you’ve talked about marriage? If one isn’t having sex (perhaps due to religious/moral beliefs) then that might be a reason for marriage. But it’s doubtful one would want to go for 20+ years in the celibacy boat!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Definition #2 - After living together for some time, marriage would be the likely next step. However, why marry? For the commitment? There are plenty of people around who have co-habited for years w/o marriage and are happy. I guess they are mutually agreeable to their situation, and they have a mutual trust in the other person. You can buy property together, etc. I TOTALLY agree with [color:"blue"] Sunny’s [/color] comments when applied to this scenario. But then [color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] said:

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The question in my mind is... when does it become time to commit, or not commit?

Very good question! Hopefully it will be real clear to both people! But living together muddies the waters, IMHO.

Definition #4 is what my Dad has done with the wonderful lady he's with. At their age (and with all the financial ramifications) they have drawn up papers protecting their own individual assets and are living together. I have copies of all the documents. He knows I don't think this is "God's best", but hey, it's my dad and I love him regardless, what can I say?

For me personally, I would say the answer to Petvet’s original question is “no” before it even goes anywhere. If the relationship became committed, I would want all cards laid on the table, and to know how things stand...and set the date for marriage! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"green"] Other questions [/color] - How does commitment (or lack thereof) affect your son? Or Buddy’s daughter? What examples do you want to be to them?

Sorry this is rambling...but that question is so wide open, it's hard to nail down a specific answer. But if I were your sister, I'd say "if she can't sign a prenup then don't marry her. And don't settle for second best, don't live with her either. Find someone else." And one last thing - I think somewhere at this point the "Policy for Radical Honesty" that Dr. Harley writes about should come into play.

Hi everyone,

I do not think my identity here is compromised, but I need a break from talking about the sitch anyway.

I'm having very weird and sad feelings, dreams, etc. Feeling alone and without friends mostly. I don't know what brought this on. Last night I dreamt I was at a buffet type banquet and there were several groups of people from various parts of my past and present life there. Each group had a table staked out - and there was no room for anyone else to join any of them. They seemed to know I was there, and they were not snubbing me - just indifferent to me. (H was not in any of these dreams, BTW). I ended up leaving the banquet without sitting down and without eating. I awoke extremely sad and can't remember the last time I felt so alone.

Yesterday I found out the IC I'd been seeing last winter was gone - just gone. Left in June. They won't tell me where she went. Maybe this precipitated the dream, but it's not the first dream with a similar theme.

On another note - I've been following the threads about commitment and marriage. Not that I'm the best person to listen to, but I do have some thoughts to share.

I think it's ok to have a long term relationship without the "commitment of marriage" if that works for both people. I know a couple that is doing it now, and seems happy though I don't know their reasons. But, I also knew another couple that did it for years. The man was married to someone else who would not give him a divorce (in those days, that was an option for a spouse to refuse a divorce). He had been separated for many years before meeting the OW. They never lived together, but were a very committed couple for as long as I knew them (10+ years).

For those who are not content with this arrangement, but are reluctant to move forward towards marriage, I'd suggest either you are not ready for the commitment, or you are not with the right person yet.

What's the solution? If you could just think faster, maybe you could change your mindset quicker? No - there are things you can't rush - and mental readiness and healing time are two of them. For those of you who are strugging with this question, I think you're not ready for marriage, for whatever reason. Maybe you'll never be ready - but that's not the question on the table now. That doesn't need to be answered now. And I don't think you need to part ways and move on either, unless one party or another feels the need to.

I know that as of now I am not interested in marrying again. I also know I could change my mind, but I don't know what would cause that. If any part of me was holding back, I'd hold the rest of me back too - until I'd resolved it one way or the other. People sit on fences for reasons that should not be ignored, IMO.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color]
You may be interested to know that Dr. Phil will discuss 'the perils of prenuptual agreements' on his show today. Set your VCR if you haven't already left for work, I'm sure he'll have some facts to consider.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - That is interesting about your counselor leaving without a forwarding address. I guess they don't want some of the more needy (or disgruntled) clients bothering her (?). Where does that leave you - did they recommend someone else (or did the IC turn her notes over to another counselor)? Sometimes dreams do affect us, and have an effect on the way we react to things. I hope you're doing OK.

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That is interesting about your counselor leaving without a forwarding address.

Today I learned she retired! The person I was originally talking to was from an appointment desk and not even at that same location. So, no wonder I didn't get good info. I did learn that nobody else at that location does EMDR which is one of the things I'm interested in. I have located another IC in the same network - different clinic - who does EMDR and I have to wait a month to get in.

Hey, has anyone here heard from Leah lately? Leah, are you there? How are you doing?

Seems like there are several people we haven't heard from lately. WHERE is everyone???? HOW is everyone????

I spoke to [color:"blue"] Leah [/color] about a week ago, and she asked about each person on this thread. I am hoping that she will be able to post her own update here in general terms. Not sure where [color:"blue"] EC [/color] or [color:"blue"] Relady [/color] have been, they are certainly missed... [color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] is still around and I wish he'd post more often! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] , what's on your mind about your "buddy" and marriage (or not marriage)?? Did you broach the prenup subject and get a reaction? Or have you even asked her about it? The Dr. Phil show about prenups was interesting and I hope you caught it! It pointed out certain "flaws" in the way one goes about discussing it with the other person. One example - don't bring it up AFTER you've popped the question. One lady had her fiancee say "prenup or no wedding" only 30 days from the wedding day (they were in their 50's) and they had already sent out invitations, made reservations for reception, etc. Also make sure that it is fair and protective to both parties. One lady had lost everything she had (house, any financial security at that point) in first marriage and had to totally rebuild with two young kids. Her next BF would not sign prenup on the grounds "it's insulting and she doesn't trust me". All she wanted to do was protect the assets she had had to build TWICE (that she lost in 1st divorce and then again to where she was now). I thought of those on this thread AND also others here at MB with this one....

Here is the link with synopsis of that show. Anyone who has prenups on their mind should visit here: Dr. Phil Show on Prenups

Hi Everyone,

I'm sorry I haven't stayed in touch better. This summer has been very busy with my three girls. Right now I'm at the beach visiting my sister. Between negotiations with H and working through all the legal stuff with my attorney, the summer is quickly passing.

All in all, things are going as well as can be expected. It's an ugly process that brings out so many emotions. There are days I feel so angry, then days I'm so very sad at what is happening. I pretty much have put the whole thing in the attorney's hands. With all that's taking place, I'm in great need of her legal expertise.

Petvet,

You asked some interesting questions. For myself, I would not want a long term commited relationship without marriage. For me, a long-term commited relationship is synonymous (sp?) with marriage. But as Avondale pointed out that is, sadly, not always the case. I guess if I was with a man, I would want to know that he's as crazy about me as I am him. I would want to know that he's ready to take it to the ultimate level of commitment which is IMO marriage.

I do believe long term committed relationships can work without marriage IF both people are of the same mindset and share the same values. If both parties don't have the same thinking, then you end up with a scenario such as Wallace and G/F. One party will always feel disappointed with the situation because it lacks something they desire.

Anyhow, that is just my feelings about the matter.... What are Buddy's feelings about marriage? Is she ready for that or would she be content with what you have? I could be misinterpretting but it seems like you're the marrying kind. Smile.

Deja Vu

It seems both of us are getting stronger in this whole process. I think we were both attempting a "nice, friendly" divorce but that doesn't seem too posible with our given situations. I have come to feel differently about some things as time has gone along. H is choosing this divorce and by doing so, he is choosing the consequences that come with divorce. Life will no longer be on his terms.

I always read here and keep up with everyone's situation. I just don't always have the time to respond. I hope you are feeling better. I'm sorry for your sadness. Please know you have friends here who care about you and want to help any way they can. Please feel free to e-mail me and if you want, we can exchange phone numbers. I have unlimited long distance calling with the plan I have, so I can call you. Take care.

Wallace,

I hope your child support issues are resolved. Seeing all you've been through makes me very cautious in this process. I'm trying really hard to cover all my bases up front. There is much to consider.

I'm curious how your situation will play out with your G/F. It can be so difficult to be where you are. I'm sure you care enough about her that it would be really hard to end the relationship for good. Yet, you definitely don't seem ready for marriage. It's hard to be in the middle with your feelings.

I was once in a relationship with someone like that. I really cared about the guy but just couldn't bring myself to commit to marriage. It went back and forth for awhile but it did eventually end. I feel bad now for what I put him through. He was so in love and really wanted to get married. Now, I wonder if I didn't make a mistake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Oh well, too late now. He's happily married with three children. Nice, stable family man.

Take care Wallace. Thanks for all the input you always give. You've encouraged me to really think about a lot of things like custody. As I've told Deja Vu, I've really come to think differently on some issues, custody being one of them. I'll write more about that when I can. I'm still not sure how much of this might be read by my H, so I have to stay guarded about sharing too much.

Avondale,

It's always good to talk with you. I hope you are doing well. My last visit to the attorney went very well. Things are looking up! I'll have to give you a call later and give you an update. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Deja Vu
Please feel free to e-mail me and if you want, we can exchange phone numbers. I have unlimited long distance calling with the plan I have, so I can call you.

Well, I'd love to - but I'm MB Board-Challenged, and can never figure out how to do all these things. Is there a way to e-mail you through the board somehow?

Hi Gang..........

Just dropping a line to say hello. I havn't forgot about ya'll...I peep every now and then but havn't posted.

I just want to encourage those that are in the beginning process or just found out to hang in there and for those who are in the middle to believe you will heal and will have GREAT joy again and success..

You have a beautiful treasure inside you and just because a person has despised you don't mean you are worthless or useless. Your treasures are unspeakable..

Many people who get wounded by the WS many times become consumed, controlled and confined by the negative things the WS did or said or what others said about you, when in fact the person or people that said the things about you, there lives are the one's really out of control..hmmmm?

So how do you break this cycle???..You need a bigger dream than what you had before. You need a vision of a greater life with purpose.

Many are trying to decide on a new marriage. Is the new relationship helping you to grow into a better person and vision you have for yourself? Does the new person add or take away from you?

Here's a point. Some marriages fail because one spouse becomes discourage about something in life and lose sight of romance and the other becomes distracted and lured away. By this time all marriage maintenance had fallen apart.

In our day and time, what keeps a relationship strong is to have a communicated vision and life with purpose. Having two people committed to a united vision and life with purpose is the greatest love feeling ever. Singleness in heart.

Anyway I rambled enough........Have a blessed and overcoming day!!!!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - that's a great update, I'm glad you were able to post. I'll fix you and Deja Vu up with the other's email.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - It's great to hear from you. I think you should post more often! Your words are always an encouragement to me!

EC - very inspirational! I wish I could believe all you say, but I'm sure you'll understand why I'm not there yet.

I pray for the day I can write - from the heart - something like you wrote today.

Thanks!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I'm beginning to think everyone but me (and maybe Deja Vu) went on vacation! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I'm here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No vacations in my future until the D is over with. I don't dare spend the $$ right now.

Lots going on for me - I just received a PT teaching job offer for fall semester, and since I need $$ for legal fees, I accepted. Between that and all my other self-emloyment sidelines (that heat up in the fall), I am going to be a busy bee in the coming months.

I suppose now that it's a weekend, there will be even fewer people around here!

Hi All,

I'm back from vacation but I'm not at home. My parents were involved in a pretty bad car accident. Thankfully, they were not seriously injured. However, they were hurt and are needing some help at home. I'm just so grateful to the Lord for sparing their lives.

They could have been killed as they were hit from behind and the impact threw them into oncoming traffic in the opposite lane. So, they were hit from behind and then head-on. The car is totally gone but they're up and moving (Slowly and with some broken bones) I believe God knew that I couldn't take the devastation of losing my parents in addition to losing my marriage.

This week is going to be especially challenging as my girls are gone on vacation with their dad. He flew them all out to California. They will be doing all kinds of exciting things out on the West coast. I'm sure they'll have fun but I'm sure going to miss them.

It just hurts so much to not be together as a family as they experience this great adventure. I have to really focus on the right things or I can feel so down. It's LETTING GO and then LETTING GO some more.

So hard to do at times when your heart longs for all that you can no longer have. I think I better go read EC's encouraging post again. I need to believe it really can get better some day. Right now I feel so very sad. Sorry for the pity party.

Hope all of you are doing well. Thanks AVONDALE for DejaVu's e-mail. I'll try to write when I can sound a bit more up.
Thanks for being there. Take care.

Please excuse me everyone while I jump in and say hi to Leah.

Leah--

I just wanted to stop in and say hi. I'm always checking here to see how you're doing and what you need prayer for. I'm so sorry to hear about your parents accident but am so glad to hear that they are doing well. God is so merciful to us.

I noticed too in your other post your doubt about whether you married the right person or not. I just wanted to encourage you a little about that. I bet that most of us who come here with our ailing marriages have the same doubts--I know that I have had them often. I think back (hind sight is everything) and I can now see all the signs of trouble that I chose to ignore when we were dating. But you know that stupid saying about "if life hands you lemons, make lemonade"? Well, we know it's not always that easy. *But* if there's anyone who can make that lemonade it's our God. I know that sounds simplistic and rather lame but whether we make the "right" or "wrong" choice, when we put it in his hands, He will make something truly wonderful from it. From reading your posts here I think that He is working in your life and that He's working on *you*--making you the person that He's called you to be. Even if your last post was a little down (and very understandably so), overall you're sounding so much stronger. I'm so glad for that.

So it looks like you've given me alot to pray about <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> --your parents, you and your girls. Take care--it sounds like you're doing very well--really.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] ,
It's great to hear from you, no matter what! I'm sorry to hear about your parents, and am so thankful that they were not more seriously injured. I know how much it must hurt to not be doing the 'family vacation' thing...I think that every time there is a holiday, too. But isn't it a blessing (in a weird way) that you can occupy yourself with taking care of your parents while your kids are gone? I don't know how close you are to your folks, but this is a great opportunity to reconnect with them.

You will never need to apologize for the pity party. We all have them from time to time.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I'm glad you're still posting regularly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Petvet, Wallace [/color] , where ARE you guys?!?!?!?!? I'm beginning to think y'all might have eloped <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> (not with each other, with your respective GF)

Hey All,

How is everyone making out? I hope everyone is hanging in there.

This summer has really been busy for me with working late, working on my house again, and I have been out looking at new homes as well on the weekends.

Not much outside of go to work, sleep, and go back to work has been happening in my life.

G/F and I are doing O.K.. I think she is getting ready to buy another house. She ran out of HGTV projects in the house she is in, so she's getting ready to buy another one... and she will probably start her HGTV projects on that one. She doesn't do a half bad job if I must say so myself.

Well... since I'm at work, I should probably get back to it.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wow, Leah - I'm really sorry to hear about your parents, but am glad they are going to be OK. Please take care of yourself!

I'll post more later... got to run off to that place that supports all my habits.

Update: H has an attorney! My attorney likes her - says she's very reasonable and (no surprise) H didn't tell her about my non-marital property from before we were married, nor did he tell her about all the $$ he already took out of the house for himself. My attorney is also going to get her to do all the paperwork - thus saving me $$ and costing my H instead.

On the downside - the repeated delays by my mortgage banker on getting my refinancing done has cost me the opportunity. Now that I've had four figures in car repairs, the same in monthly attorney bills, and having to replace equipment used in my self-employment business (that I lost or was broken after I moved), now my credit is overextended. All looked good the beginning of June and she had assured me it would happen within a couple of weeks. I'm trying to not be mad at her for delaying, and for never responding to my calls. I should have "fired" her and gone somewhere else, but she was going to not charge me closing costs and appraisal fees again since she handled my original mortgage.

There is a never-ending litany of other irritating things as well - a week ago the phone company disconnected my phone. No reason, no explanation and no notice. They have admitted there was no reason for it, and they can't determine why it happened. It's finally back working again. Then the city condemmed a tree in my yard and has given me 8 days to come up with a few hundred $ to remove it. One of my CC companies is trying to double charge me for something because they messed up their records (from 6 months ago) - and has once again sent me a bill for a few hundred $$ they say I owe but can't produce records for... finding out H has been complaining to my friends about how I'm ripping him off... and the beat goes on.

So, still in limbo. Yesterday I sat here and stared at the walls all day - I felt so numb I couldn't do a thing. Thoughts going through my mind: time to "get out of Dodge"...

((( [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] ))) Sometimes when it rains, it pours, doesn't it? I have also had similar "problems upon problems" this weekend. I know God won't give me more than I can handle, and I'm glad He's there to help me. Don't beat yourself up about not bailing on the mortgage banker; are they moving forward now?

Remember, this is a new day, and a new week for us. Get out of the house, don't stare at the walls, and count your blessings, even the small ones! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi all! Sorry for being absent lately. I have been very busy. I have alot going on. I hate when I can't post regularly.

DejaVu: Home refinancings never go as plan. It's a joke. It seems as though your D is moving to a close. Stay strong.

Avondale: Hurry, if you want to take a vacation, the summer is coming to a close. How are you doing? Also, thanks for the comments on Prenups. Yes, I did see the Dr. Phil episode on Prenups. Buddy saw it as well. I have more on the Prenup issue later. You asked about the our kids. The kids are crazy about us. My child calls her mom which his mother hates.

EC: It was nice to hear from you.

Wallace: Are things going well with your GF?

Me: Except for being terribly busy, all is good except for the ex and behavioral issues with child due to going back and forth among households and different discipline methods.
While meeting with my attorney on some other issues, I asked her about prenups, and she did not like them. As a matter of fact, she said that the prenup would have to be a darn good agreement in order for her to recommend me signing one. I passed the info to Buddy. She was quiet with no response. After a while, she said that a prenup is not least of our worries. We remain positive.

Later.

Me: The p

[color:"blue"] Petvet, [/color] it was great to hear from you. Glad things continue to go fairly smooth for you!

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - Where have you been? I hope your summer has gone well.

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - you need to post!

[color:"blue"]Leah [/color] - How are your parents doing? I hope that caring for them is helping you also keep your mind off court-related things. Is there any update with that? If so, email me and I can share with the others non-publically.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - You should post more often, too. How often do you see your kids? Did either of them come to stay with you this summer?

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Are you feeling better now? I find that the weekends sometimes are more difficult, because I have more time to reflect since I'm not in the busy office environment.

Hello to anyone else who didn't get a personal mention. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi all,

Not much happening on my end.

Avondale - To answer your question. I've havn't seen the kids since grad 2004. I talk with YD about once a month, now that they are older, they have moved on with there own life. YD calls more often. OD will call if she needs money. OD is still in denial, she thinks exww never done one single thing and all this is my act and show. But as they say, oneday they will get curious and will want to know the facts and story on my end...

Other than that life is good!

Well I have something to share! I had suspected that H's affair with OW might have lessened. I had also suspected that he was involved with someone different. My fears were confirmed when I got an email from him. It went like this: "Out of courtesy to you, I thought you should know that I'm dating a person quite regularly. She's from around here so I didn't want you to be surprised if anyone said anything to you, or saw us out, and you weren't aware of it. If telling you was wrong, I apologize. But as I said, I thought you should know before the rest of town knows." Well, my internet work (I hate myself for doing this, and for still caring so much!) has led me to believe she's younger than our kids. Lord I hope I'm wrong on that account! Even though I had kind of figured he was "involved" with someone else, having him confirm it in writing kicked me in the gut again. Arrrgh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Avondale,Avondale...

Don't get worked up about this..(Why, you might ask?). Your exh is not telling you about her because he's proud, he's telling you about her because he's ashamed, seeking validation, as he (tarzan)swings from one woman to the next. A Ws, ex or not, if they left out of the marriage swinging to OW or OM, they will continue to swing. I bet you 100% he's cheating on this new chick with OW in the middle. He's not a faithful man.

You serve as his base for truth, security and validation, as he plays tarzan. Trust me, he does not feel good inside. He may appear, and sound strong like he's the gift to women but he's crying inside and messed up. He's trying to have a woman fill that empty void while he's sinking to the bottom, he probably will go through 10 women before he gets there.

******************************************

From a man's angle this is what he's really saying " Since I don't feel good about myself and rejected, pretty ugly inside and insecure, I have a new GF that's attending to my shame and wounds, first OW didn't hit the spot, and just in case you see us, remember how I ran away from home moma, this new GF is not better than you, but I want to make sure you know I'm not far away from home moma". I just want to make sure if you see us, I get your approval". sign..Johnny Lunchbucket...

***************************************************

So you might as well start shouting the victory and start living life. Those relationships aren't what they appear. It's like fast food, the wind hits it and it's all cold and dried up in 2 minutes.

Hang in there, the eye of the storm has already passed over you, and now you're just feeling the after winds. You have a great future and great things ahead that you never thought would ever come true.

Avondale,

So sorry... I know how it feels. Maybe our H's are friends, eh?

Here's what mine had to say about the GF he brought to the dog show a couple of months back:

"I don’t recall saying I wouldn’t share my agility life with a girlfriend by bringing her to a show but what actually happened was a friend from work wanted to see the show after hearing me talk about showing for the last few years and everyone, including you apparently, seemed to think she is my new girlfriend. I won’t deny that might work for me but I’m still faithfully married to you so that’s not really an option at this point...."

and then later, "I don’t know how folks got the impression that I was introducing her as my girlfriend because at that point I had only seen her several times outside of work and she would have been shocked if that had been my introduction. Funny how things can develop though and I have been spending more time with her but I don’t know that I would call her my girlfriend; she is a friend who happens to be a girl."

Sure made my day. Especially the "girl" part - from a guy who used to be very sensitive to women not liking to be called "girls". So either it was a slam of some sort, or she really is as young as she looks, and thus really is a "girl".

These guys don't really have to share this stuff. I think they want us to think they don't need us, and can easily find another woman. Well, go for it. One size fits all. We are all interchangeable, right? Well, depends on what you are looking for... confirming what I have been thinking lately anyway.

Avondale, we are better than that. Have you seen the commercial about the middle aged woman, speaking generically to men in general, "for all you men who left for ... (younger women?) ... WE DON'T MISS YOU"

Last night I had dinner with an old friend, who happens to be a guy. We talked and talked about getting old, what it means, what our lives mean, etc. It was great. I realized there are men out there who aren't like my H. However, like my friend, they may be spoken for. But still.. we don't have to settle for crap. Only crap has to settle for crap, and that's not us.

Avondale,

A big hug to you. I so understand when you say you wish you didn't care so much. It seems it would make it easier not to, doesn't it? But once you've committed yourself to someone for a lifetime, that love does not easily go away. I know how much it can hurt but just know that God will see you through all of this. You do have a hope and a future. Keep hanging on to truth. Speaking of truth... A quick update.

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to let you all know how things are. Things continue to be very challenging here at home. I can't go into a lot of details other than to say, I'm praying for TRUTH to be shown to all concerned.

My first day in court is this Wednesday at 1:30. I'd really appreciate your prayers on this. Some of you are aware of the issue that will be addressed. I'll give an update as soon as I can in regard to the outcome of that trial.

Although things are difficult, God is seeing me through. I feel a peace in the midst of the storm. My biggest concern is for the girls and all that they have been through and continue to go through. I hope in time they come to understand truth about all that is happening.

Hope you all are well. God bless you!

Anyone heard from Leah today? Wondering how things went...???

Hi gang.........

Not much happening on my end.

I saw something happen today and as I saw it, I saw a lesson.

A man owned a candy vending machine. The machine was in a place of business. I saw the him come and fill the machine 2 weeks prior with a smile. Then today I saw the man come again today and a employee of the company said, hey! we have a lot of customers complaining about getting jipped from this machine. She said people are putting money in, but only a little comes out. He said how long has this been? because nobody ever said a word about it and I never noticed. Then the employee said it's been happening for 2 months and people want this thing out of here.. He said it was never communicated to him, he was surprised?..

So as I saw this, I looked at that machine as the(BS). Many BS's are not aware that the (WS) was complaining. The WS tells everyone else the problem except the one who can fix the problem. In that the WS thinks they have communicated the issue to the BS when in fact the BS know's nothing about the unmet expectation.

So since the WS may feel jipped from the deposits they have given, they finally decide to make no more deposits in machine. By this time they decide to make there deposits to another machine (OM/OW).

So as I saw this, I thought, had many BS's known of there WS's unhappiness they would have fixed the issue sooner. After the man examined the machine the machine was fine, the problem was that if you didn't turn the knob all the way you only got half of what you were expecting.

So I saw this and realize many WS's never try hard enough to turn things around and get the fullness of what they put into the relationship and marriage. They give up not knowing they are part cause of the machines(BS)low output, yet the machine is full of what they need and want.

Anyway I thought that was interesting........

What a great story - thanks for sharing! Isn't it great how we are presented with lessons when we least expect it?

EC
That was an insightful story. I agree with Deja Vu, it is great how lessons are shown when we least expect them!

Hey?

Where's everybody at?

Nobody's home anymore...........

Well, I'll just talk to myself. I had this thought. After the BS of dv begins to move forward, move on and have successes. They may even have a new spouse or GF/BF. What do you think is the key element that sparks them to sink into a pit? Whether it be, failure, regret, sorrow,etc...

Now sometimes this is called baggage. At what point do you know that you have removed your baggage?

************

See, here's my definition of (Failure): Having success at something you attempted that had great purpose and meaning, but then it suddenly failed.

************

When you're doing an alone project, you can back track and see and learn your mistakes. In marriage you can do the same also. I also understand accountability and responsibility.

But,when a WS has there own selfish agenda, a seperate life outside the marriage with OP and you did't know it, in which they're pretty much into another marriage(called adultery by the way). Where is the line of failure drawn for the BS, after realizing that if the WS would come back, it's considered a great successful marriage again verses if they DV then its a failure.

IF this is the case, why should a BS be consumed with marriage failure if they knew what it took to succeed?.

So, would this mean that a BS has a sense of false failure about themselves? Are they carrying false baggage of failure? Can a WS determine your failure or success in a case like this? If a WS is in an affair that they're unwilling to leave how does the BS depart feeling confident?

In bible times, the paper of the bill of divorcement was always given to the woman, never to a man, this was so that when she was sent away from him in dv,(if innocent)she would have a sense of self-worth and confidence and not be treated as an outcast. The man could be wrong in his heart, but he was still obligated to give her the bill.

What's your thought about how much should the BS carry?

EC, Hi! I'm here - for a few moments before I head out...

Quote

At what point do you know that you have removed your baggage?

Dang good question. I don't believe we ever lose our baggage completely. But, maybe we learn to pack lighter and lighter over time, and maybe we even stow that extra bag in a storage locker from time to time.

Maybe when we get to the point that we no longer make decisions based on our baggage, and no longer assess other people based on it.

I've wondered about this - it's akin to the question, "how do I know if I've healed yet?" to which I also have no definitive answer. Maybe the answers come when we no longer feel a need to ask these kinds of questions.

Quote

Where is the line of failure drawn for the BS, after realizing that if the WS would come back, it's considered a great successful marriage again verses if they DV then its a failure.

IF this is the case, why should a BS be consumed with marriage failure if they knew what it took to succeed?.

So, would this mean that a BS has a sense of false failure about themselves? Are they carrying false baggage of failure? Can a WS determine your failure or success in a case like this?

Are you asking if BS are accepting responsibility for a failure that was not really theirs? I can see two angles to this - one is a tendency to accept blame beyond what is appropriately ours; the other is a tendency to blame others for the failures in our lives. What a fine line!

But, at some point we all need to feel good about ourselves again. Maybe that means shifting responsibility off of ourselves to appease our sense of guilt and/or feelings of failure, so we can move on. Probably we have no way to validate whether we are carrying baggage of real or false failures - so we have to pick one and go with it.

Hi Deja Vu

*****************

Quote:

Are you asking if BS are accepting responsibility for a failure that was not really theirs? I can see two angles to this - one is a tendency to accept blame beyond what is appropriately ours; the other is a tendency to blame others for the failures in our lives. What a fine line!
*******************

I'm coming from the angle that many BS's take accessive blame beyond what is really there's. When you begin to work on you, you start to see how you may have let your guard down, could have been better at this or that, and you work on you and improve. This is done to improve you and your relationship skills and to regain your spouse's attention.

Ok, so you did all the right things, if the WS had come back you are a success. If not, then are you a failure?.

So now, one has to look at, did I fail or did I succeed? now I'm beginning to wonder if people like myself, put what is a failure and what is a success in the wrong place of measurement. Meaning maybe the success or failure should not be determined whether or not the WS comes back, but that you made changes within yourself that would make them happy, you're happier and people take notice of you, that makes a positive impact in your environment. Then if the WS choose not to return to the marriage at least you know you made the effort of success.

So I think what I'm saying is, rather than placing the success or failure on the marriage, maybe the (success) should be placed on how a person improves themselves that makes them happier and attractive of course (without being selfish)and that (failure) in this case can be defined as [Failure]: " A choice a WS makes to no longer pursue there current spouse but chooses to pursue there new lover".

So, I don't know, just tossing around thoughts, anyone is welcome to give there 2 cents......

Hi all! It's nice to be back with you folks.

Avondale: Question? Do you have any feelings for your former husband? Your exh is playing games again. Why does he think you would care who he dates? Do you care? He is kinda screwed up in his head because he is ashame of what he is doing yet he continues doing it. I realize you are hurt, but you may want to count your blessings that you are no longer married to him. He is not your problem anymore. Let some other woman deal with his issues. Let him stress some other woman out with his issues. Don't be sad, be happy!

Later.

Hi Gang,

Hope you all are doing well. From what I can remember, none of you are close to where the hurricane hit, so hopefully everyone is fine.

Things have been just about as bad as they can be here. Lots of drama and craziness. I guess it's all an ugly by-product of divorce with an extremely controlling individual. So difficult at times, yet I will survive.

There are always blessings in the midst of all the strugles. I need to keep the right perspective and have a thankful heart for all the good in my life. I'm eager for things to settle down. I'm sure they will in time. Meanwhile, I must stay strong for my girls. They need as much stability as possible right now.

I will try to get an e-mail out to those of you who I have addresses for. Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers. Take care and keep looking up!

Hi All,

I'm still working on my remodel in my bathrooms... in fact I have a 3 day weekend with one of them this weekend, and most of it will be finished.

My computer at home died... I think my Vid card went out on it. As soon as I'm done with this one bathroom... I'll fix my computer... there is only so much time in a day.

G/f sitch is going pretty good... we decided no wedding bells for at least two years. That discussion is offically over... finally! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EC...

I really liked your insight as far as your posts went.

Speaking for myself only... I consider myself as a failure in regards to my past "M". Did I learn from my mistakes... yes I did... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't follow into my old patterns again. I took my "M" for granted, and that was my big mistake. I find myself constantly looking back at it all, knowing full well... that it didn't have to end the way that it did.

My exW didn't help things by any stretch... in fact if anything... she fanned the flames to expedite the end of the "M".

All in all... it's probably something that I will never, ever get past. I've tried, and I am moving forward in my life... but I now find myself looking at things in a whole different light.

Leah...

I know your kind of limited at this point to post how you made out... but I hope everything went in your favor on that particular day.

Deja Vu...

It apears to me that your having a real time of it with your exH as well.

How are you holding up? Has anything changed that may make things a little less stressful for you?

avondale...

Glad to hear that you have some good support from your friends from Church. I have found my best support from my friends at Church as well.

Petvet...

So what's happening on your end?

Are we going to hear wedding bells soon, or did the Prenup scenario skew that off the table?

Trusting Him...

Havent heard from you in awhile... when you get a chance, let us know how your making out.

relady...

We really haven't heard from you in awhile. Hopefully business is good, and that's keeping you busy.

Speaking of busy... I have been extremly busy here at work, and I have to get back to it.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace,

I can relate to what you wrote - about not ever getting totally past what has happened. And not being confident of being able to avoid the same patterns again. I go in and out of DEEP PITS of thought along these lines.

Re: your question about my sitch - my lawyer says his lawyer is finally getting to look at the paperwork. I have said that if we don't have an agreement by a week from tomorrow, I will remove my offer to give him extra time to get me my equity.

My new IC has studied the files from the past, including the times H and I were both in to see my former IC (who has since retired). The last thing she said to me when I left today is, "if you go back with him, you're going to need to find yourself a different therapist!" She does NOT like what she's been reading about him (from the previous IC's opinion of my H).

Leah - Glad to hear from you. Are you OK?

Avondale - how are you doing?

EC - any more great insights? You sure popped in at the right time - for me anyway!

Petvet, Trusting Him... and anyone else.... HELLO??

Hello All...

Wallace - I know what you mean by, will you make the same mistakes again. Sometime ago somebody asked me if I would ever get married again? I responded without realizing it and said, "No, I'm to afraid I'll cripple somebody again", in essense I'm running away from the trap of oneway relationships...For whatever reason, all I can think of is that I spoil a woman with love and service, then it cripples them to start taking and no longer give....I haven't figured out yet how to be good to a woman without crippling her, it's a boundry thing I know....I believe love has actions with it and you express yourself without limit, but I feel I did those acts and they failed. Example: Exww started out loving to cook. I was one of those H that shared the duty of cooking,etc...Just because I know how to cook and share it don't mean I'm saying I want to be the sole cook of the house, I had other responsibilites to do.

So there would be those times I left for work at 6:00a worked overtime to make extra money, get home at 9:00p. A long day. Teenage kids would say dad, we haven't ate dinner yet, I say where's your mother, why come she has not fed you guys?, oh she's waiting on you to get home to cook...Those times would fry my gizzard! I had to ask her to teach those girls to cook and also asked her to step up and do her part...... Exww didn't want to cook, neither did, YD and OD, so really I crippled 3 people. Soooo this is part of the resentment why they stay away from me and are distant, making them do something they didn't want to...

I remember the hurtful times before we were Dv'd that I call exww's house to speak to the girls and exww would brag as OM was in the background cooking them dinner...

So things like that make me evaluate things....Had I just left kitchen thing alone years ago and tried not to help cook everthing would have maybe been fine. But I like to cook also, so it was a fine line...

Deja Vu - In looking back going through my DV, If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn't go to court like I did. I found in court in dealing with DV there's two laws. Civil law and Moral law of man-kind. The courts could careless about moral law and what is fair and right. Your only chance to use anything moral is what you agree upon outside of court. So whatever you do let your moral and civil have it's right places. It's sad but a WS is immoral from the start and sometimes you have to treat them like the thief they are. Don't attempt to go to court with moral law. Only if the civil law breaks the moral law will it be of any affect.

On another note, I thought more about the failure and success thing. Some of it's part of the grieving process. Its just like when someone dies and you feel like you could have done more, then a false guilt and failure sets in sometimes. But it will lift in time...

Wallace:

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Did I learn from my mistakes... yes I did... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't follow into my old patterns again.

Maybe this will boost your spirits and confidence again. Today I had a long talk with a friend who has a PhD in Psych and quite a bit of knowledge about personality disorders. I learned some valuable things from him today, that might help you as well.

Personality disorders are classes of disorders that frame a person's basic personality, and they are constructed (not inborn). They include: sociopath, paranoia, narcissism, borderline personality disorder, and others. There are categories of disorders, based on certain characteristics that similar disorders share. Sociopath, narcisssist, and BPD are in the same category so they share many characteristics, but also have some that are distinct. A BPD has a theme of abandonment, a narcissist has a theme of personal importance, and the sociopath has a theme of being unable to empathize with others. All of them share the focus on themselves and to see events around them as being about them. (This is obviously an oversimplification).

People with "personality disorders" see things through a filter that is skewed, so their perspective is different than other people's. They affect (infect?) everyone with whom they have close relationships as a result of their skewed thinking.

The way they see the world defines the mindset with which they approach everything - and it is so much a part of what is normal to them that they are unable to see their problem (generally). In fact, they think other people's thinking is flawed, not theirs. They often succeed in getting other people to feel guilty, or take blame for what went wrong - when in fact the only thing that really went wrong was their OWN distorted thinking.

Their reality is skewed, yet familiar in many ways - like being in a house of mirrors where the images are familiar - yet distorted. This makes it hard for others to realize what is going on.

They can be extremely deceptive and subtle. And their disorder can escalate over time. So what may have been a mild tendency initially can become a full blown disorder over time. Usually these disorders will surface by the time people are in their late 20's to mid 30's.

People tend to see others the way they originally perceived them, and not necessarily see subtle changes that occur over time. So, if a person with a personality disorder gradually gets worse, the slow shifting of reality may be hard - or impossible - to detect by their spouses.

Even trained professionals often have difficulty diagnosing and recognizing personality disorders. Some subtle things can really only be diagnosed clinically and can be very elusive. In fact, the profession tries to shield new psychologists from people with personality disorders during their training because of this.

Here is the clincher - for me anyway. To NOT detect a personality disorder in a spouse or loved one is probably the norm. It is NOT a failure on the part of the other spouse for not being able to detect it. In fact my friend said he was very impressed that I was able to recognize what was happening.

I came away from the discussion no longer feeling like a failure. Yeah me!

Note to self: Stop hitting self over head. No longer necessary!

Note to self (and others): the future is not defined by the past. The past could be an anomoly - especially when dealing with people with distorted thinking.

Cheers everyone - enjoy the holiday weekend!

Hey y’all,
I’ve been on vacation, sorry I haven’t posted lately. I think I’ve read all the more recent posts now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]Petvet [/color] , to respond to you, yes, I do still have feelings for my H. I admit it. One cannot be married for 25 years, go through ALL the life experiences we did, and just turn off the feelings. It may take me years for these feelings to subside. They have lessened a little bit, but are definitely still here. I am not at the point where I count my blessings I’m not married to him (in that simple way) but I am counting other blessings. To me, it DOES matter that he’s dating, especially if she’s 22 years old. If this is correct, I feel I owe it to my kids to let them know so they won’t find out through some other way (including seeing them at the nearby store).
On another note, I know you are probably strongly feeling the gravity of the New Orleans situation, having gone there several times.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - Great to hear from you. Please e-mail when you have a chance.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - How many bathrooms are in your house? LOL You’ve been absent from MB for days! I know you’ll be glad when all the remodeling is done. I’ve been considering whether to get one of those “bath re-hab” places in for a quote. The bathroom I’m thinking of was built in 1941 and has the ugliest color of ceramic tile and a pretty sorry tub which I’d love to replace.

[color:"blue"]EC [/color] - I totally agree with you in this:

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So I think what I'm saying is, rather than placing the success or failure on the marriage, maybe the (success) should be placed on how a person improves themselves that makes them happier and attractive of course (without being selfish).

I’m glad you’re back posting on the boards. Your posts are always thoughtful.
[color:"blue"]
Deja Vu [/color] - It sounds like you had a very timely meeting with your friend. I imagine you already knew a lot of that (at least in your head), but it’s so reassuring to hear it from someone respected in the field - I hope this knowledge sinks deep into your heart so you truly don’t take on any more “failure” thinking.

[color:"blue"] Relady, Trusting [/color] , anyone else - Hope you're doing well! Post for us!

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Hey y’all,
I’ve been on vacation, sorry I haven’t posted lately. I think I’ve read all the more recent posts now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Yeah for you. Anywhere fun?

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One cannot be married for 25 years, go through ALL the life experiences we did, and just turn off the feelings.

Are you sure? I do not believe I have any love left for my H anymore - and am unaware of having any positive feelings towards him at all. Maybe this isn't normal on my end!

How 'bout the rest of you? What have your experiences been? At what point do/did you turn off the feelings? Would any of you take your former (or STBX) spouses back?

Hi Avondale welcome back. I know you still feel love for your H and that's natural. The longer married the more time it takes to detach. While he may have somebody younger, it don't mean he's happy or she's better. Some younger women like older guys because some are just gold diggers. It's about financial security. A older guy or gal is flattered by younger attraction because for whatever reason, it validates that they still got it!

I know guys that married older women 15-20 years diff, 10 years go by, then oneday they wake up and want a DV, I say why? and they say because they thought they were in bed with there grandmother.

I know girls who left the older man because they are young and were ready to run the town while the man is trying to stay home, relax and retire. The man runs with the girl at first because he feels " Alive" energetic, makes him feel young again, maybe 22 (until reality sets in)then he with- draws when she starts going around the younger crowd and everybody's trying to figure out who's dad that is....

So don't worry if she's young or older. He'll never have someone like you, people don't realize they are a special cut to do a special purpose in life.

Hi all! I hope everyone is having a good holiday.

Wallace: I guess all of us are wounded souls when it comes to our past M. I try to view the past m as on the jb experience. I hate that my son has to be involve. Happy remodeling.

Avondale: I hope you had a good vacation. As far as you ex is concern, he is all out there. He is dating an innocent 22 year old. He must be going to through a serious mid life crisis.

DaJavu: Yes, when you are dealing with a D, you can expext anything. As I have said before, hold on for the roller coaster ride of your life.

Me: Buddy is from Louisiana, and her family owns quite a bit of property in New Orleans. Many folks from my parish are from Louisiana, and I know alot of folks from New Orleans. Many native New Orleanians are very sad and depressed to see their people suffer and the obvious disconnect and non caring from their federal government. The bitterness and utter distain for the federal government is very high. They know that they will never see the New Orleans of old. Regardless of who did not do this or that, no one in the US should have to wait four or five days in dispair to receive HELP.

Later.

Petvet,

So sorry to hear you have ties to people who are suffering in the south... it is such a devastatig thing. Makes many of our problems seem trivial. I totally agree that it is inexcusable to let people suffer like our government(s) have allowed.

Cheers to everyone else as this Labor Day weekend comes to an end. Back to work, back to school, back to life as we know it - and winter is just around the corner.

[color:"blue"]Petvet [/color] - I didn't know that visiting Buddy's family was the reason you went to N.O. last year! Aha, now the real reason comes out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> How did her family and their properties fare? Or is it too early to tell? My heart goes out to all those affected.

[color:"blue"]DejaVu [/color] - Don't remind me that winter is just around the corner! I have been reading the thread you have going on in the Divorced/Dating forum. It is very enlightening.

Boy this thread sure is quiet. Too quiet. So I'll shake it up a little bit with an annoucement:

I have met someone and I think I'm in love. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

OK, so that is really not true at all, I was just getting your attention. Actually, I do have something to post. I know that [color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] and [color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] will probably be shocked to read it.

This entire time, of 3 years of separation and 8 months of divorce, I have worn my wedding and engagement rings. Mostly because I was making "a stand" for my marriage, and partially because I just couldn't bear to take them off, because of what that would mean. My rationalization was that just because one was divorced did NOT mean I HAD TO remove them. After all, they were jewelry, people wear rings on all fingers now, so it's not like I was breaking the law! But this weekend, after a lot of prayer, I have decided to remove them. To me, this does NOT mean I am giving up hope that someday my H will "see the light". However, after a week of struggle with the fact he's "dating" (living with, actually) a new OW, I think I need to face the fact that he has a whole other life. By the way, this OW is closer to his age than I thought, which in my mind makes it more serious (and less like a MLC). So I need to take a baby step in moving on, and taking off my rings is that step. My finger feels bare, and I have phantom pains of needing to twist the imaginary rings on my finger, LOL. I still remain steadfast in my faith and knowledge that God can do all things, including capturing H's heart, mind, and soul, but whether or not that is in His plan, I don't know. Comments, y'all?

lol avondale... you had me going there for a moment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll let you in on a little secret of mine...

I got married about 6 months ago!!!

Not really... but I do wear a wedding band that she bought me, and my G/F wears a wedding band that I bought here about a year ago. In fact in another 4 weeks... we will have been dating for three years... and yes she is getting jumpy about me not getting married to her as of this date... she thinks I'll never get "M" again.

That's a big step avondale, taking off your wedding band. I know how that naked feeling on your finger feels... that's why I don't mind wearing the wedding band my G/F bought me.

It's also a positive move IMHO, that your moving forward like you are... which is a very difficult thing to do. You just don't wash away twenty plus years of "M", and the associated memory's associated with it... it's just not that easy. It takes time... "a lot of time", for most people... myself included.

So you got my attention!

My computer at home is still down, and yes... I'm still working on my Master bathroom, and one of the kid's bathrooms. I'm getting close to finishing, and then I am going to take a break for awhile on remodeling my house.

I'm doing all right, and I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Stopping in to say hi... I'm off soon for several days out of town. I'll check in when I get back.

Avondale - your finger will heal faster than your heart!

Wallace - what do the rings symbolize for you and your G/F?

Anyone else? Petvet - how's Buddy's family doing? Leah? We never did hear from you...

Ah well, fall comes, and everyone is pretty busy I guess.

Hi All,

Thought I would drop in and say hi.

Deja VU...

Concerning the wedding rings that myself and my G/F wear and does it symbolize anything?

I think it says that we are both commited to the relationship for the long term, and that we are not interested in seeking out any other relationships... in other words we are taken. Which by todays standards doesn't mean a whole lot anyway... but I think you get the idea.

EC...

I'm with you in conjunction with your post about not wanting to cripple another person in a relationship. I think I feel about the same way.

Hope everyone has a great day and a great week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

OK - I'm back. Over the past 4 days, I got to spend 13+ hours in my own company with nothing but the road ahead of me to distract my thoughts. I did have a stack of CD's along - but found most of them pretty sad - remembrances of times long since gone. Finally I'm having regrets - I thought I was beyond all this.

Seems everything is stalled out - I'm getting nowhere fast. The D, refi on my house... slipping deeper into oblivion and nothing happening. My life is too complicated. I want to rest. I'm tired of the rat race. And I'm now finding myself wanting to make a total break with my current life. Find a job in another place - maybe even the other side of the country. Just leave and not look back. Untangle from all the commitments I have here, that are becoming too much to keep up with, with all the other stuff going on.

Part of the deal is I'm having some physical problems with my back, hip and one leg - I'm barely walking and am really scared about what is happening to me. The chiro is helping a bit - but this does NOT feel like the same old same old. How am I going to live alone if I can't even walk? It's bad enough trying to cope with this house alone when I have all my abilities intact.

Has anyone else had the urge to run away from home? Has anyone actually done it?

So... where is everyone else?

Hi all! It's been busy for my lately.

Avondale: You had me going for a while about your new love interest. All BS go through the issue of when to take off the ring. It's real personal, but once the ring comes off, alot of pressure and release goes with it. I will bet you that your former H will be with another woman soon so you better get use to him moving around from woman to woman.

Dejavu: Under the circumstances, you need a break from the rat race. It will be resolve soon, but no issues are created after the D, so it really does not go away because of the kids, but it is a different pressure of having to deal with your former H.

Wallace: How are you doing?

Me: Buddy's family owns quite a bit of property in New Orleans including a business where they stand to possibly lose thousands and thousands of dollars. The house where we stayed last July was reportedly in ten foot of water. Now, the water level has gone down to four foot. That house had just been renovated with nice wooden floors and top of the line appliances. GONE! I've just taken on a new accounting client which is taking quite a bit of my time until I can get things in order and get a system down. I have not forgotten about you guys.

Later.

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I have met someone and I think I'm in love. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

No way! You have [color:"blue"]NOT [/color] met me yet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry...I just could not resist.

Somewhere way back there Avondale posted something about still having feelings for her former spouse. And I have to agree with her. Even after being divorced for two years now there are times that some of the old memories and feelings creep back into my mind. But I do believe that there is a part of me that will always have some type of feelings for her. It would scare me to think that after 17 years of being married they all disappeared.

I wish I could find that article I read a few years ago about "Holes in your Soul" becaause it refered to people who described themselves as having "no feelings" for those who had hurt them and related it to those holes that needed to be healed.

EC

Is is good to see and read your posts again. You somehow always manage to put things into a prespective that makes it easy to understand. There were several things that you have written in the last few weeks (OK, months, I know I've been bad for staying away for so long) that really hit home.

Wallace

And I see that you are still working on those bathrooms! Remind me never to call you if I need abthroom redone. I'll end up with another [color:"purple"] Taj Mahal [/color] in my house.

It is good to hear that you and your girlfriend have agreed to hold off on the marriage and marriage talk for a few years. Is that still holding true? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

DejaVu

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Has anyone else had the urge to run away from home? Has anyone actually done it?

Have the urge? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> I will not even attempt to tell you the times that I've felt like just running away. And just recently my friend from New York felt the same way. He called late (early) one night (morning) having those same thoughts. He has had so much trouble in dealing with his former and his "parenting time" with the children that he too was ready to just throw the towel in. After several hours of conversation he was calm enough to get back to sleep.

I think we all have it at times but it is probably best to not follow through with those feelings. Hang in there and work on taking care of yourself and things are bound to get better.

And to everyone else:

I pray that each of you are doing well this year. I have dropped in and read but work and children have kept me pretty much tied up the last several months.

Hi all!

Trusting: It's interesting that you bring up the feelings for a former love. Every now and then, I think about when things were good between me and ex; most likely during dating and early part of marriage, or how things could have gone, BUT then I think about what she did to me, and my good feelings evaporate. I am not good at rebuilding burnt bridges.

Wallace: How long will it take you to complete your project "Contruction Guy"? I wish I was good mechanically.

Avondale: "EHarmony"!!!!!! What do you think about it?

Later.

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - If I had known it would take some sort of major announcement on my part to get you to post, I would have done it a long time ago! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> You have a lot to contribute and should post more often!

[color:"blue"] ((Deja Vu)) [/color] - I’m sorry you’re having physical problems again. I know it is scarey thinking of being “alone” and having to deal with them. You don’t have kids - but what about other family and friends? Or are your friends more “mutual” with your H ?

I often think about moving to the beach (my little fantasy!) and starting over. I have even gone so far as to ask my CFP if it is do-able. Not yet, unfortunately. So I continue working...

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - That’s too bad about Buddy’s family’s property. I hope they had insurance. And as for Eharmony, well....on the other Divorced/Dating forum, it was discussed pretty heavily. It seems the general consensus is that Eharmony is a rip off. I’m not that desperate (yet!). Like I said before, if I don’t ever get married again, that’s OK. I had a WONDERFUL marriage for over 23 years and it would be very difficult for someone else to meet that high of a standard.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I think the “commitment” rings are nice. Since you kind of SPRUNG that on us, give more details <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Did you get down on one knee and make some sort of speech? Somewhere between setting the toilet seal and installing fixtures? Maybe you can have your honeymoon in the Taj Mahal bathroom?

[color:"blue"]EC [/color] - I agree, you should post more often. It has been good to read your posts on other boards, too. So what do YOU think about dating??

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I know you lurk, even if you can’t post. Hope you’re doing well. Post when you can!

Hi everyone……

I haven’t posted much of late, sometimes I feel I’m talking much but saying little, anyway..........

Avondale: As far as the dating scene…I haven’t been on any dates. I’ve gone out to lunch with a female friend recently that’s about it, just a distant friend. So from that experience I knew I’m still too beat up for any relationship even though she’s just sister friend. I can’t do the big lunch or dinner things yet.

Hey isn’t Wallace a professional plumber? Surely this guy knows how to redo his bathroom! Maybe he’s really caught in pipe cage like Larry, Moe and Curly Joe when doing construction work, maybe pipes and water are everywhere.….ok, just joking having some fun, I’m sure Wallace is the best.

Ok, on another note: One thing I’ve come to remember that people must do in life is break ungodly soul ties. A soul tie is something connected to you through association that keeps you under its control and negative influence. There are good soul ties and bad soul ties. Good soul ties are kids, family, etc…good soul ties always connect you with people of influence that empower you to become all that you were created to be. It has no idolatry with it (Idolatry: exalting someone or something higher than the voice of true authority God placed in you). Idolatry is also to live the vision of another in which you are not empowered to become but are controlled to fulfill their selfish purpose and you’re never fulfilled and left empty and void.

In divorce, breaking soul ties is part of the virginity restoration process.

This is also one of the main struggles for a WS also is breaking free spiritually from an ungodly relationship. They draw back to it because they haven’t prayed and broken free. We as ex spouses must do the same. While the ex is/was your best friend and mate, then comes the time to break free from there emotional control. When couples are married they have a secret place only they know the path to where the place is and the place where they can be intimate, reconcile, talk and dream. What happens during the breaking of the soul ties in divorce is that the secret place is boarded up, shut and closed and the path is erased. When the work is completed that person no longer knows the way to your heart or feelings anymore. They become as a stranger approaching you, and do you give sex to strangers?

When couples have a spat and they draw people in the middle and it seems they are about to split, then all of sudden that couple draws back together in a supernatural way and it’s that secret place they have made together. When people divorce the secret place is one of the last things to close. The BS usually stands in the door somehow waiting for the WS to return to that place, sometimes it happens, sometimes it don’t. The WS moves on to find a new secret place, the only problem is that it’s a den, pit and trap only to find themselves naked and ashamed. The WS finds themselves breaking the soul tie as from a spider web and shackle; the BS breaks free as walking in the peace, freedom and liberty they have been granted.

Many times after divorce people find old school mates, some just happen to run into someone they totally forgotten about, and some had others on there mind for years during marriage (That’s old soul ties that were never broken).

Take Care...

EC... as always, you are the voice of wisdom. Your post made me wonder if my desire to "run away from home" and go start over someplace else is because I cannot find a way to break the soul ties and stay here at the same time.

Re: old friends - I have found myself checking the dates for my next HS reunion. Hmmmm - wonder what that means?

Hi DV....

It's natural to want to connect with your past HS buddies. In fact after moving back to my state I have seen several but it's all just a surface friendly hi and bye stuff...I'm in another place in life and trying to relive an era with them just don't fit.

Even when I moved 1,200 mi away the pain still followed me. So it's a healing process of time. A soul tie is not so much a distant thing in many cases because it's a inside job issue. Therefore it has no distant because the thing is attached to you where ever you go.

Yes, your environment can trigger certain emotions but thats natural after the ending of a relationship. New scenary does help. Moving does help, but when it's all said and done, life is what you make it no matter where you live.

This week I had to go to my old neighborhood I grew up in. I moved from that area when I got married and never associated with anyone in over 22 years. I remembered some painful moments and never wanted to return. But I had to go in that environment and face old friends, but I went like John the Baptist eating "Locust and Wild Honey".

Locust: I took the things that used to eat me up there and I took those painful experience's and they have become my food of wisdom and thoughts.

Wild Honey: I found the "sweetness" in the bitter and painful experiences that once emotionally stung me and subdued the wild passions of it.

**************************

Here's a thought for the (abused) " Never spend or waste your time trying to fix or repair a relationship from your past with someone who cares nothing about your present or future.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color]said:

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I want to rest. I'm tired of the rat race. And I'm now finding myself wanting to make a total break with my current life. Find a job in another place - maybe even the other side of the country. Just leave and not look back. Untangle from all the commitments I have here, that are becoming too much to keep up with, with all the other stuff going on.

Has anyone else had the urge to run away from home? Has anyone actually done it?

I was reading this morning and you came to mind with this Psalm. David himself is described as having that feeling or desire to state ""Who will give me wings," I ask-- "wings like a dove?" Get me out of here on dove wings; " in the midst of his troubles.

A David psalm. Open your ears, God, to my prayer; don't pretend you don't hear me knocking. Come close and whisper your answer. I really need you. I shudder at the mean voice, quail before the evil eye, As they pile on the guilt, stockpile angry slander. My insides are turned inside out; specters of death have me down. I shake with fear, I shudder from head to foot. "Who will give me wings," I ask-- "wings like a dove?" Get me out of here on dove wings; I want some peace and quiet. I want a walk in the country, I want a cabin in the woods. I'm desperate for a change from rage and stormy weather.
(Psa 55:1-8 MSG)

And then he goes on to explain why he feels this way. He was not talking about someone at work who had offended him not the day to day confrontations we all come across with other individuals in out life.

He was talking about a friend, a companion, someone who we had shared time with, a person whom we had invested time and intimacy into developing a relationship.

This isn't the neighborhood bully mocking me--I could take that. This isn't a foreign devil spitting invective--I could tune that out. It's you! We grew up together! You! My best friend! Those long hours of leisure as we walked arm in arm, God a third party to our conversation.
(Psa 55:12-14 MSG)

So even the Big Guys struggled with the feeling or idea of running. Hang in there girl...there is a hope for a future and a plan for your life (all of ours here) and we will one day be over those urges to flee.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I had one of those moments last night. It seems that the formers BF was at her house last night and somehow managed to accidently hit the redial on the telephone. Of course I first thought it was one of the children calling but quickly discovered otherwise.

I answered, said hello several times but apparently the phone was laying around somewhere because I could here them talking as if they had no idea they had called me.

But just the thought of this other person being at the home of my children and being intimate with the woman I was once married to brought to surface again those feelings of running.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Ever had one of those [color:"red"]LIGHT BULB [/color] moments <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Our son was with me today as he stayed home from school sick. I just dropped him off with his mother (which always causes me to reminisce)and as I was driving back home I was dwelling on the thought patterns of this woman and our children.

From the very first day that she mentioned divorce she had always said "whatever the children want" when it came to custody or living arrangments. Of course that was over 2 years ago and I felt the children were not mature enough to make that decision. Nor did I think that they should be put into the position of having to choose between Mom or Dad.

Fast forward 2 years and we have a daughter who turned 14 (legal age) who wants to live with Daddy. I think most will remember that the discussion that ensued from that was not a positive or fruitful one. That is what I was dwelling on as I drove home whem I remembered their Mom's greatest fear.

Losing her children

So now I ask for advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Knowing that this is her greatest fear how is she going to react when any of the children express this desire? How far will she go into using guilt tatics or even expressions like "I am concerned about the relationship you have with your daughter" or "I am concerned about the time you spend alone with your daughter to ensure this fear never comes to pass.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And that's how I pretty much felt, [color:"purple"]*confused* [/color] about her attitude and reactions. After this drive home it all began to make a little more sense.

Am I attempting to read between the lines or can I be pretty sure that until she learns to deal with that fear that any sence of a normal attitude will ever be exhibted from her on this subject?

Tough Love,

Just curious - how do you know this is her greatest fear? Has she said so? Maybe you covered it in previous discussions - I'm sorry, I don't recall the details of those.

How has your X reacted to your daughter's wish? So what if she is concerned about the time you spend with your daughter? What's the implication of this, and do you really have to consider this concern? Are you afraid she's going to accuse you of child abuse?

I don't have any advice other than forewarned is forearmed - take the precautions you need to, but try to not to be held hostage by her fears.

How do I know?

Almost a year after our divorce I arrived to pick the children up. On the counter was a stack of junk mail that belonged to me. There beside it was some paperwork from the same company that I was attending for counseling.

My first thought was "Why are they sending my mail over here. They have the correct mailing address for me. After picking it up I relaized it was not mine but hers. Apparently she had started counseling again and it was a questionaire she had filled out. One of the questions on the first page was " My greatest fear is" (fill in the blank)"losing my children."

How has she reacted to our daughter's wishes? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

FW: (calm tone) A daughter needs to be with her mother.
DD: (calm) Then DS needs to be with his Daddy.
FW: (slightly angry) Your brother and sister need you to be here for them.
DD: (calm)My brother and sister need their Daddy to be here for them too.
FW: (angry) The law says that the age of emancipation is 18. Until you are 18 you will not leave this house.
DD: (calm) I would like to think that you and Daddy could come to an agreement on this. But the law also says that at age 14 my opinion plays a huge role if I'm willing to talk to a Judge.
FW: (screaming) So you're saying I'm a bad mother.
DD: (crying) No, I am saying that I want to live with Daddy.
FW: (screaming) You're not going anywhere until you are 18 if I have anything to do with it.
DD: (crying) But I really want to live with Daddy.
FW: (screaming) You ought to be ashamed for even thinking such a thing. Look at all that I do for you.
DD: (crying) But you never listen to me.
FW: (screaming) I listen and I've told you that you're not going.
DD: (crying) But Daddy was there when my period started. And he's the one that explained what was going on. You've never told me what was happening to me.
FW: (slightly scremaing) I thought Grandma or Aunt X explained that to you.
FW: (screaming at me) You should be ashamed of yourself, coming over here and ruining your son's birthday. (Son was not even at home, he was at the lake fishing) How dare you make my daughter tell me I'm a bad mother.

Me: (clamly) I had nothing to do with this. When I got our of the car DD came to me and said that she had talked with you about this last night and that you told her no. She then asked if I would talk to you about it. I explained to her that I had hoped you and I could agree as mature adults to honor our daughter's wish's as you've always told them "Whatever the children want".
(shortened version)

And not much more was said. During the entire conversation DD was sitting on the couch next to me crying. FW was on the other side of the living room. DS and I left shortly after that to celebrate his birthday. (I had to drive to the lake to pick him up)

Child Abuse? *chuckles* It's a far cry from child abuse. The only reason I did not contest the divorce was because she had shown me how far she may be willing to go. The rest of the sentence was more along the lines of "Since I am not meeting your needs for sex I am concerned about the time you spend alone with your daughter." At that time I quitely bowed out as I did not think the children needed to experience a long drawn out custody battle. And our DD did not need to be questioned about the ethics of her Daddy.

While I had nothing to fear I do know what that simple statement and the courts can do. Not in the same sense but look where Leah2be is today. And I did not want or desire any seeds of doubt to be placed in our daughter's mind.

What's the implication of this, and do you really have to consider this concern?

Consider it? Not at all. If there was any truth to her fears of me and my daughter I would assume that I would not have unsupervised visitation (parenting) time with her. I truly believe that it was only a hole card she played to get exactly what she wanted.

But it was a "thought" as I said before. I was actually thinking along the lines of a wounded bear and someone trying to take her cubs from her. She would do anything to protect them and I was curious of because of her preceived fear of losing the children that she too may do anything to ensure that she keeps them.

HI EVERYONE,

I'm so sorry I haven't been able to write much lately. I've been keeping up with all of you by reading here whenever I get a chance. Things are still very difficult with my H.

He is taking the girls against their will and mine. We've had some very bad scenes. I try so hard to be at peace with him but he's making it quite impossible. My heart goes out to the girls through all of this. They have been put through so much.

We have two upcoming court days in October. Both dates are dealing with custody issues. We also are going to attempt mediation before those dates. I would love to think this thing could be dealt with outside of court but based on our last attempt, I'm doubtful.

Last time we met with our attorneys and it was a very ugly mess. The attorneys just heated up the whole situation. They were going after each other and nothing was resolved, not even a temporary visitation schedule. So for now, my H is calling all the shots. I let him know I disagree with what is happening but then he precedes to do as he wishes. My attorney said it would just be anarchy until we get to court.

I do not have much faith in the justice system anymore after the devastation of my last court date. I believe I read it on this thread... The justice system may be legal but it sure isn't moral. That I absolutely agree with!

Although, the girls are gone a lot with their dad, I've been staying very busy with a lot of other things in life. My brother and his family are staying with me while their home is being built. It's almost done. So... I'm doing some extra cooking, cleaning, chauferring and all those other "Mommy" tasks. They're my substitute children for awhile.

It's good to have something different to think about and do. I've also resumed all my volunteer work with the schools and church.

Overall, I'm doing well. I am grateful for God's grace and strength through this whole process. I'm finally letting go of a very unhealthy, abusive relationship. I'm starting to feel a new freedom after seven years of intense emotional pain and suffering.
It's like a door is just beginning to open up for me. There is a hope and a future out there. God will see me through.

TRUSTING HIM, E.C.,

Its great to hear from you both. It's been a long time. I'm glad to know you are both doing well. Trusting, will your daughter be coming to live with you this year? Will this issue have to go back to court before she can come and live with you?

AVONDALE,

I understand about the ring. It took me seven years before I could take mine off. I kept wanting to hold out for that miracle. Unfortunately, it took some pretty severe "whacks" to the head, before I realized I needed to LET GO.

I'd love to learn you've "fallen in love" for real! That would be exciting! But I also think it would be wonderful for you to be reunited with your former husband. It seems you have so much more positive to look back on than I ever did. It's great that you can say that you had a wonderful marriage. I'm afraid I could never use that adjective. Keep looking up Avondale and thanks for your prayers.

DEJA VU,

Yes, I've felt those same emotions of wanting to just "run from it all" My thirteen year old just asked me that the other day. She said, "Mom, don't you think it would be nice to move someplace new where no one knows us and to be able to start off fresh and new?" There's a part of me that could really appeal to.

I hope you are feeling better both physically and emotionally. I will keep you in my prayers. Take care.

HI TO PETVET, WALLACE, AND ANYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD,

I hope you all are doing well. Wallace, I hope you've been able to emerge from the bathroom and take a breather. That is sweet about your commitment rings. I hope you and G/F are doing well still.

Take care everyone and I will try to write more often in between all the drama. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> God bless each of you!

[color:"blue"]Trusting [/color] - I think we've talked about your former's obsessiveness before. What are the reasons she fears losing the kids? Appearance? She wants to be needed? Lack of other things to fill her life? She has a mean streak and just wants to "win"? What's your opinion?

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - what other support system is there for you? Do you have extended family anywhere nearby? Do you have insurance that might assist with home care for a while during recovery from surgery? I know sometimes things seem hopeless; I'm sorry you're having to go through all that.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - Are you still taking classes? For some reason I thought you went back to school. I'm glad you're back posting on this thread (and elsewhere).

Quote

You said: Moving does help, but when it's all said and done, life is what you make it no matter where you live.

That's so true. But sometimes we like to live our little fantasies of the grass being greener elsewhere!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - It's great to hear from you. I'm so sorry you're having such a difficult time with your H. Do you feel better about your lawyer these days? Keep your head on straight - your kids are old enough to know who's "stable" and who's not....and they'll remember your actions when they get older and can really make their own decisions about how much interaction to have with their dad.

[color:"blue"]Wallace, Petvet [/color] - Hey y'all!

Hi all.........

Avondale - Yes, I am still in school at the associate level for now....I'm doing the distant learning thing, therefore I can go at my own pace.

Me: Yesterday, I went to the bookstore and had a blast! Since I've been on my own I have just fallen in love with reading even more. I have so many books, but not enough time to read them. I saw some books yesterday I wanted but then thought, I can't get to them until next year. I even saw this one book on "Desperate House Wives" believe or not. It had scripts, scenes, shots, etc. I think it will become a collectors item Im sure.....Anyway, I saw 10-15 more books I wanted but walked out with one. My two oldest books I have are dated 1854 and 1893. What's interesting about the 1893 book is that it's talking about the concern of the "ozone", yep in 1893!.

Ok, so now, at that time, we have no cars invented, no space station, no satelites, no rockets, etc....Hmmmm? So the ozone issue was noticed and recorded 120 years ago. So today I have a hard time with the current day global warming theories. I find it humerous how they say it's because of cars, cows, new inventions, etc...

So the ozone issue has been out there for 100 years. There are so many old problems we deal with today and we call them new issues or crisis.

On another note: Oil - To date man don't know where oil came from " They tell everyone from dead dinosaurs". They give a theory, not facts. Dead dinosaurs did not sink to the earths core under 40 miles of water and become petroleum. The DNA from dinosaurs should resemble that of Oil if that were true, but it don't. The Oil came with the creation of earth. If oil came from dead dinosaurs then allegators should be ozzing out the ying yang with some related substance filling our gas tanks, instead all they do is bite and swallow people and good for a pair of shoes and purses, oh and some do eat them.

Anyway I just marvel how we can swallow such lies and false theories. Since DNA has come on the scene, you notice that the theory man came from monkey took a back seat? The DNA design from the creation of mankind has never changed, hmmm?

Anyway I like old books, it messes with things in the present day when we think we have advanced but are really living the past....Example: Adultery, the bible has countless stories of the emotional injury of it, yet a WS has found something new and secret.

The newest thing a person could discover is the life God has prepared for them. Nobody could ever do what God has given you to do because nobody has been created to do it but you. You might find someone of a like nature, but they can't do it like you. God does not clone, he creates.

See ya!

Well, Trusting Him, Leah2... your issues with children make my hip look like nothing. I guess I've got it pretty good after all. My thoughts are with you both.

EC - I'm with you - I LOVE books! If there is an addictive bone in my body, it's to buying books. My new house has more BR's than I need, so I turned one into a library - something I've always wanted - and I'm LOVIN' it.

Hi all!

Avondale: Thanks for your enlightened comments about EHarmony and also thanks for your comments about Buddy's family property in New Orleans. They have insurance on all the property even though a few of the insurance companies are giving them a hard time. I'm happy you can say that you had a good marriage; where did it go wrong?

Leah: I hate to see you you go through all the pain of divorce and the legal mess. Stay strong.

EC: I know of someone who could not let go of an old bond from years ago, and recently got her feelings hurt because the old bond still has not changed from his bad ways.

Trusting: That is one of my fears is that my son will choose to be with his mom when he gets older.

Me: All is well.

Later.

Hi Leah - I'm sorry to see you go through this DV ordeal, but as you said there's something greater on the other side. I was the one that said the court system does not acknowledge moral law in DV cases. They could careless what is morally right, they abide only what the law says. Therefore if the law is corrupt and against what is right and immoral you have judges who rule according to that system. Just remember WS's who do crooked stuff in court have a hidden long term plan, they aren't dealing with the moment but setting up there future. Remember they disconnected maybe years ago. They have already lived this out and what they would do. We as the BS are trying to deal with the moment and are caught off gaurd with there actions. So the courts treat you as if you are strangers, they careless what kind of moral bond you have or had.

DV law use to be against those who did wrong and favored the injured person. It has now turned more for those who do crooked and evil things that they now have the upper hand. As I always say, they still have one more eternal judge to face and it ain't going to be pretty.

Anyway keep strong, you're going to make it through this. Just remember that things work together for the good and no matter what happens you are going to walk in victory.

Tr Him - I remember going through the emotional battle of the custody issue with my girls. Because of the age of my kids I let them make the choice who they wanted to be with. I knew it was best they be with me and knew they would suffer with her but I had to let them make that choice. My OD wanted mom. YD wanted both. I then decided I would not war over that issue eventhough I knew what was best, besides I didn't have the attorney money anyway.

It was painful times they suffered while I paid the CS more than enough. Utilities were always off. Since we have been DV she has moved many times.

I think it was 2004 after my YD had grad from HS, YD told me that during HS days YD and OD went to Sam's Club bought boxes of candy bars, turned and sold them for profit to supply there lunch money and laundry money during HS.

I heard that and my heart broke and I was fumming. I was fumming because all the CS I was paying and exww was spending the money on OM. But then I said to myself but this what you guys wanted, so I had to let it go. To date they blame me for all what they went through because exww told them I never paid anything and we're apart because I left her to be a single mother. To date OD denies any serial affairs happened, so they're still under the brainwash. I have never shared what happened in detail, in the past when I tried they told me I was a liar, yet I have names, conversations, addresses, documents, witnesses,etc...

So our relationship has been strained since and never repaired. They only call unless they need money, then they fade away again. It's not fair, but all you can do is wait for the day when they want to restore the relationship. I look back and just marvel because my daughters were my everything. My every living moment surrounded them, then poof! they're taken from you by deception. So cherish every moment you have with them.

A lot of my healing has come in helping young teenagers achive and being involved in what they do. They think I'm the best thing since sliced bread. I just tell them, listen just because all that has happened I'm not going to stop being a father, I need to help somebody's kid and in return they're like yeah and I need a father figure in my life, so it's an even exchange.

Deja Vu - Despite your phy injuries I know that you will come through this in a way you never thought possible. Many times as our lives shift, we think it's the ending when it's just a rearrangement of the greater thing, but however old pattens we know want take us to that greater thing. So as we walk through life in places and positions we have never been in we can't figure it out, but have to walk by faith and learn and grab the treasures during the journey.

Petvet - I know what you mean about people that hold the "Old bond". Thinking that old bond holds some type of vaule from your past. You hear the story all the time, well after I dv'd I found my old HS sweetheart, then tragedy strikes when the once used to be nice little Johnny boy from HS 20 years ago has developed a stealing problem and has robbed 3 other wives leaving them bankrupt and moves to the next victim, oh from HS.

I was recently warned from a HS friend to stay away from a certain woman because she robs men, I said noway!! I said she was the nicest girl during HS, she was the poster girl. He said oh no, she gets you to marry her, have a baby, take your money, then dump you for CS. He said why do you think she lives there and drives that and never worked? and has all those kids? Men are drawn to her because she appears successful, of course he was one of the victims that had the OLD Bond from 15 years ago, never moved on with life from his past thinking back about her who only took him for a wild ride.

Take Care.........

HI ALL,

Thank you for all your prayers, well wishes and support. It means a lot.

EC

The whole idea of wrong being rewarded in court is very disconcerting. That was part of the problem last time. It was H and OW's LIES against my truth and their LIES won out. That was the most difficult thing to accept!! I still have to keep reminding myself that God knows the truth. He is the ultimate judge. I'm trying to trust Him with all of this.

Everyone... A Huge Concern

Any input on this would be appreciated. As most of you know my H has filed for custody of the girls. He has basically been absent for nearly 14 years of their life BUT has totally changed in the past four months since he has decided he wanted a divorce.

I've been a stay at home mom and have been the constant factor in their lives as he has been busy building his business and pursuing other woman. Both activities necessitated many evenings and weekends away from home. He travelled much of the time.

Now he is showering them with gifts and time. Obviously, they have been starved for his affection and attention so that feels good. But, I truly believe this too will change in time. H loves the thrill of the chase and the challenge but doesn't know what to do when he gets what he wants. It suddenly becomes non-interesting to him.

That's what happened in our relationship. He chased and pursued because I was a challenge. Once I committed myself to him in marriage all the excitement was gone for him. He lost interest and began looking for new relationships that could supply him with the all time high of falling in love.

Also, I thought I was suppose to be submissive and compliant, that H was the head of the household. Unfortunately I learned too late that I had a distorted view of things. My H is extremely strong and a master manipulator. He is very convincing. He is working hard to convince the girls to be with him.

Because I was always compliant and often gave into my H to have peace in the household, the girls have seen that behavior modeled their whole lives. It was a way of life...trying to keep dad happy.

So, I am very concerned that they will go against what they REALLY want, to live with me and visit him, just to keep peace. They have articulated as much to me. They tell me they want to be with me but Dad is going to be so mad if they don't spend at least half their time with him. They hate the back and forth thing but are willing to sacrifice their happiness for him.

Any suggestions of what I can do to help them understand it's okay for them to disappoint him if that is what they truly want? This is such a HUGE decision that will affect the rest of their lives. He is pressuring them so much right now.

As it is they won't have to go to court, as they will have a court appointed advocate. But that, too, is scarry to them. They are quiet, shy girls who are very private with their feelings. HELP?!?!

Hi Leah...

I'm just curious, why come if you had custody, your girls feel they can't see there Dad? Do they know that if you have custody they still can see him?

Even after I moved out of state, I agreed that my kids would visit me anytime if it didn't conflict with there school days.

One thing I wrestled with during the custody issue was, I knew they would suffer with her, but if they knew I knew that, would they come back later and say, if you loved us why come you didn't fight for us? If they were young and in danger I would have found a way despite what they wanted. Your H may be fighting to avoid paying CS, his motive may not be to be a father but a CS issue.

I don't know what State you live in but in some states if the woman was a stay home wife, she is entitled to 50% of the H's income as spousal support + CS. Also she is entitled to recieve something like a educational income since she stayed home for many years....

As I said excersize all your rights according to the law, don't be intimidated, kick those eggshell shoes to the side, make sure your attorney understands what you want. Search the laws yourself also to make sure your attorney doesn't miss anything you need.

Hey All!

Leah...

EC made some very good points concerning your custody situation... I agree with EC as well... concerning your "H's"motivation for wanting custody.
If I were you, I would fight to the bitter end to get the Judge to allow you to be the "Custodial Parent".

You may need to have your daughters tell the Advocate in their own words just what you posted here. I'm sure the Judge might find that to be a very interesting reason on why your girls would want to live with your "H" instead of you.

I also agree with EC about how unfair the Justice System is.

All it has become now... is a system that just herds you in, and herds you right back out again. They could care less about dispensing Justice... if they cared... there wouldn't be any "No-Fault" divorces... someone instead would have to pay and pay dearly for their dirty deeds. If you could submit to the Judge all the garbage the wayward spouse did, and use it as evidence of violating their contract of marriage... because that's all the States see it as... the WS wouldn't stand a chance.

I beat the odds and got Custody of all of my kids in spite of the way the Courts handle the divorce situations. It wasn't easy, but it was well worth it.

Your "H" may be a manipulator, but your going to need to stand up to him, and take this bull by the horns and get with your attorney and your girls, and lay it out the way it truly is. Your only really going to get one shot at it... make it your best shot.

Deja Vu...

There has been many times that I wanted to just get up and walk away from everything... and it's perfectly normal to feel that way... just don't do it.

There is nothing easy about what you are going through... and IMHO it is one of the most difficult things you may ever have to deal with.

You will get through it though... and it will take a lot of time to heal from it all... but as time goes on the pain of it all lessens.

avondale...

I'm with you about the moving thing. The grass is not always greener on the other side... especially if you have kids involved in it.

Petvet...

What's with the Eharmony interest?

Are you and buddy still together, or did the Prenup situation end all of that?

Trusting Him...

It's good to see you posting... you have a way of putting things into perpective, as well as being able to take the "high road" on many of these issues that can just drive you crazy.

EC...

It's good to see you posting as well...

I can understand you heartache concerning your daughters. I'm not sure I could of made it through all the nonsense if I didn't have God and my kids in my life.

And if anyone is wondering if I'm still working on my bathrooms... the answer is yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm just about done... and after my bathrooms are complete, I'm going to take a break away from remodeling for a bit.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]Leah [/color] ,
The fact that you posted so many details shows how dire you feel your situation has become. I don't know anything about custody, but I do know a little bit about people. We all agree your H is a manipulator and "taker". It sounds like the guys here think you should go for broke (pardon the pun!). So, for that result, have you considered reminding the girls that:

1. Their dad was never around before the custody issue started
2. Their dad has the money to buy things for their affection
3. Their dad has not been faithful to you
4. They don't NEED to keep Daddy happy
5. They need to keep you happy (ok, so maybe that's a little biased, but you know what I mean <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />!)

I know they're at different ages so you could scale how much you tell them towards their age & understanding.

OR you could take the totally high road and risk losing everything and wonder "what if". I honestly think you can be a little more assertive without getting too bound up in a wrong way.
How is the other court thing going? Any update there?

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - I think you must have a million dollar bathroom. So how does the rest of your house compare?!

[color:"blue"]Trusting & EC [/color] - It's good to hear from you!

Hi Everyone.....

I saw a documentary on TV the other day and it featured "Bob Dylan". I have never been a "Bob Dylan" fan but I like him as a person.

One thing that caught my attention as they told his story of his beginning days in the 60's was his "Courage" during the different aspects of the peace and civil rights movement. One thing he said " You got to put your body in the meat grinder and break the system".

As I thought about that comment I thought "Whatever happen to the people of today that would lay down and sacrifice their everything for the good and advancement of mankind" as in those days putting your life on the line".

Well I think we have seen another wave birthed by the 2 hurricanes. People stepped out beyond there comfort zone, moved by great compassion. One thing I can say about America is that our love is bigger than the storm. In that your love is bigger than your storm.

Americans put there bodies in the system once again with there love and outreach and broke the system from saying God is not needed, churches are not needed, more churches and people reached out more than any Federal Gov't program. We did what the Gov't could not do "Love and Care for people".

Anyway I admire Bob Dylan for what he stood for, he said he was not looking to be a star, but that he was just an ordinary guy doing an exordinary thing with his music that he wanted no part of anyone's click, left or right wing group. People were moved, not wanting to be star but just wanted help from the great love of there hearts.

It goes to prove that if some great desire burns within you, you'll do whatever it takes to make it happen. we are seeing a lot of great lessons before our eyes today on "Whatever it takes" I'll do it.

See ya!

Quote

Also, I thought I was suppose to be submissive and compliant, that H was the head of the household.

Because I was always compliant and often gave into my H to have peace in the household, the girls have seen that behavior modeled their whole lives.

They tell me they want to be with me but Dad is going to be so mad if they don't spend at least half their time with him. They hate the back and forth thing but are willing to sacrifice their happiness for him.

What goes around comes around.... or "the sins of the father..." or something like that. Seems to me it is time to break the mold, though it is the kids who will have to be the ones to do it. I'm sure they've learned not only to keep the peace, but some fear of their father's anger as well. Perhaps since he left you, they fear he will abandon them too, if they displease him. To be rejected by a parent is the ultimate destruction of trust. I truly feel for your kids in this - there is no way they can win, or even break even, is there?

So, I don't think I have any wisdom to share - other than to find some way to give them the strength they need. To be there, and let them know they have YOUR unconditional love. Because it doesn't sound like their father is capable of that. I surely hope if he gets custody he doesn't lose interest in them once he's "won" them - and they end up feeling the rejection anyway.

(((((((((((Leah)))))))))))

Deja Vu,

I read your post before you deleted it and I had just responded to it when I discovered it was deleted. They would not post my post because yours was being deleted at the same time. So... are you okay?? I'm very concerned for you and have been over here praying and typing as fast as I can. I wrote previously for you to please e-mail me with your phone number and I would call you if you'd like.

Please know we all care and you are not alone. God is with us even when we can't always feel it. He wants to be your Peace and comfort. We want to help too. Hugs and prayers to you!!

Avondale, E.C. and Wallace,

I'm trying to remember all that I just finished writing which got lost. Thank you all for your comments and helpful suggestions.

Yes, money is part of H's motivating factor. He already threatened that before. He said he would only have to pay me half the CS if he gets 50% of the custody. Also, CONTROL is a huge motivating factor. H has always called the shots. The thought of me having more influence or say in family matters would be enough to throw him into a major tailspin.

I like your list of considerations, AVONDALE. As always you think of some good points. I'm trying to find the balance of trying to influence their thinking without presuring them and or putting them in the middle.

I desparately want what is best for these girls. Which puts me in a tough position as what I feel is best is so different than H, which leads to total strife, which is not best for the girls either.

As E.C. commented, about giving up with the idea of sparing them the huge conflict, it reminded me of the story in the Bible about the two mothers fighting about a baby they both claimed as theirs. When Soloman offered a possible solution, the real mother gave up her rights to save the baby, and by doing so, she gained her baby. Are you familiar with the story?

Also, E.C., you asked if the girls realized they could visit their dad if they lived with me. They do know they could see him often. They fear what DEJA VU commented on... they fear his rejection and anger. They know he wants a minimum of 50/50 time. Therefore anything less than this is going to upset him.

AVONDALE, I will give you a call to update you on the other court thing. Not much going on there because I've had to focus so much on the custody battle.

Well folks, that is the very condensed version of what I posted originally. THANKS to all of you for being such a terrific bunch. I appreciate your encouragement so much!! Hope you all have a great weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by EverlastingCompassion

I'm sorry about that post that I deleted. I felt stupid this morning and hoped I got it deleted before anyone saw it. I don't usually bare my soul that much, atleast not when it's that raw - and lately when I have, it has seemed like the WRONG thing to do.

EC - your thoughts are appreciated. I will reread them when I'm not in such a dark place, when they will make more sense to me.

Leah - you've got mail!

Hi Everyone...

Happy October - Time to pull out the cider and dried corn stalks. I love fall, especially about the 3 week in Oct. The tree's turn all kind of brillant colors. There's no fall scene like the "Blue Ridge Mountains" on the east coast. I pulled out picture I took some years ago of the mountains and I thought it was a post card. I remember when I lived in the mountains I remember this lady that always sat on her porch smoking a pipe.

Wallace - Glad to hear from you. I guess you must have a killer bathroom with all the work you've done. How are things with your OD? Is she still distant? It's good you have your YD, she will thank you in years to come. I miss mine greatly, but I can't chase them either. There practicing manipulation right now "Draw you in when they want something, then cut you loose once they got it". So I have to just back off as hard as it is. I don't want them to grow up to think this is how you treat men as there mother has. If they got married, they would only reflect to there H, well this is how I treated my father, so you do the same, he gave me what I wanted. So since they haven't come to visit period, I've cut all funding to anything, not another dime until they come.

Deja Vu - I deleted my response to your earlier post because if you thought you said to much of your raw inner expressions I felt it best to remove what I posted since it listed quotes of those things. Just trying to make you feel at peace.

Avondale - So what are you up to these days?

Have a blessed and overcoming day!!

Hi Leah

I forgot to answer your question regard...
******
Quote: As E.C. commented, about giving up with the idea of sparing them the huge conflict, it reminded me of the story in the Bible about the two mothers fighting about a baby they both claimed as theirs. When Soloman offered a possible solution, the real mother gave up her rights to save the baby, and by doing so, she gained her baby. Are you familiar with the story?
********

I'm familiar with that story. In that story you notice that the woman that had the real true love cried and wailed the loudest, but if it would spare the childs life then she gave it to the pretender, however the pretender is just that (Acting a part as a parent but really doesn't care) In that story it shows the true heart of a wh*** type of person (They have a counterfeit lying emotion to seduce and mislead). If this were in todays times, the lying woman only wanted to claim the child as hers so she could collect child support, I'm sure she killed her child emotionally before she did it physically.

************

I also apply that same story as if the wh*** killed her Husband, her (child), then she took her friends husband (her child) and try to say it was her H(OM). If Solomon had saw this he would have said ,women, let me deal with this man and see whose H this is, ok Sir, lay down here and let me put your lights out, this is your end, be quite as I do this. The real wife would scream in agony and say no! spare him because it would hurt me too bad to see him hurt (true love). The wh*** would walk away and say, oh well, whatever, slice him!

This is exactly how these counterfeit affair relationships are today. Ask a WS to come to the place of mental truth, they say no!. Ask a WS spouse to bury there new lover that died that they just met, they'll take off running and say, it's not my problem, bury that joker in a cardboard box for all I care....He's not mine.

A wisdom nugget in this:

Sometimes you have to let your WS go to OM/OW in order so that the counterfeit lover can reject them when hard times and personal life issues arise. The counterfiet lover has no true commitment, it's all about seducion and living a lying moment. It's not about duties and serving. The WS will judge and see who really cares about there life and well being in time as they begin to die inside feeling unloved and rejected by the counterfeit lover.

Take Care

Quote

Deja Vu - I deleted my response to your earlier post because if you thought you said to much of your raw inner expressions I felt it best to remove what I posted since it listed quotes of those things. Just trying to make you feel at peace.

Thank you. I did copy your response to my hard drive because I really do want to read it - later. I talked to Leah on the phone today for quite awhile, and it really helped. Then I went over to a friends and spent the afternoon sitting outside in the fresh air and talking, letting our dogs play together.

Thanks for everyone's concern - it really means alot to me that you all care.

Hi All….

This is just a little thought I put together for those that might need it. It’s about tools you can use to restore your life and to make your life better.

The repairing of a broken life. Many have gone and going through life issues that have left you devastated and broken. Some have not suffered as much as others, and every story is different. But this is for the hungry. As you work on your “Plan A or Plan B” this will also help too. Maybe DV has already happened this will help you also <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Four things you can use for inner personal restoration:

Time – time to plan and mediate how to work out and resolve the issues in phases (1,2,3,4)

Money – money to support yourself/family and to invest in the phases that you have planned.

Prayer – prayer empowers you to perform the task. Prayer moves, changes things beyond your ability and strength. Prayer also changes the outcome of a difficult circumstance. And most of all prayer keeps you in communication with God to give you peace in the mist of the storm.

Friends – You need good friends, family that love, support, empower and agree with you to arise and overcome your obstacles. Don’t surround yourself with people who are incapable of helping you and bring you into bondage. Sometimes in life’s broken issues of where life lands you, you might find yourself pecking the ground like a chicken as those around you. One day you’ll be pecking like those around you until you realize that you’re an eagle and not a chicken <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />. Your nature is to grab the feedbag and fly high with it and provide for yourself and others. You don’t fit the mold of handouts as thrown to the ground and then have to go chase it, always pecking the ground. An eagle will rise above the storms of life’s issues. An eagle arises to the air and see’s the big picture beyond its environment. The chicken always has it head stooped and bowed down pecking the ground asking why? why? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Rather than ask why?why? Tell why, thank you for the opportunity of new beginnings <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Equipping yourself for the new beginning on the outer restoration.

Proverbs 24:27 - Prepare your outside work, Make it fit for yourself in the field; And afterward build your house.

Ok, let’s look at this: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If you want to harvest the fruit, you will need to till the soil, plant the right seeds, take care of the plants, and stick with it until harvest time.

If you carefully prepare the ground, then plant the correct seeds for the climate, and then faithfully tend the young plants as they mature, you will eventually reap the rewards.

When you begin to prepare and exercise your dream and determining how much you are willing to give and invest into your dream will determine your reward and fruits of your labor. The principal outcome is for you to have something you never had and expand something you’re already doing. Planting the right seeds at the right time can also relate to the abundant joy of a relationship.

Listed below are different principle routes a person may go to get to there dream (Are you ready?).

1.Find the thing you like to do, work on that thing, reap the reward of that thing.

2. Get a business idea, work and prepare the plan, build the business (Build you business, then afterwards build your house)

3. Figure out the new job or field, find the good employer, establish your home.

4. Go to school, graduate in the field you choose, afterward build your house

So now you have an idea of new beginnings and building a greater future. You can get started today if you have: A willing heart, spend time for planning, put in some hard work, and commitment. Most of all pray.

If God gives you dream, he will also give you the plan. If you trust him through it, he will also help you reap the rewards of it in due time.

Hey All!

Do I have Million Dollar bathrooms? Ahhhhhhh... no, but they are starting to take shape and are starting to look pretty good.

How does my bathrooms compare with the rest of the house?
They are all fitting in quite well. I have my HGTV GF/fiance to help guide me along. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EC...

I like what you have been posting... but I have a question for you.

I have reached all the goals that I set up for myself through the years. I'm looking at retiring probably in the next few years, and my kids for the most part are all grown. I don't feel like starting all over again, as I have been there and done that with the Corporate game, and I'm really not interested in anymore of that type of situation.

It's kinda like Humpty Dumpty for me I think... all the King's horses, and all the King's men... couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

I'm back on my feet again... but I'll never be the same person that I was... I miss the person that I was.

So my question is... where do you go from here? I know that is a broad based question... but when you center your whole life around your family, and it's torn to shreds... what do you do to compensate for that?

I'm sorry to hear that your daughters have been so distant. When your made out to be the bad guy... IMHO, only time and understanding from your daughters will bring this to the point it should be.

Leah...

My prayers are with you, and I know your in a very tough situation. You and Deja Vu are really being put through the ringer. Both of you really need to dig deep within yourselves... and not let your "H's" bully you around. We know the angst that you both are going through... just try to get through it all, and come out of it as a whole person after it's all said and done with... that's the important thing.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Lots of posting going on. I have been reading them daily but haven't had much to post myself.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - Your posts are so thought-provoking I need to "chew" on them a while. I echo Wallace's thoughts about sadness that your daughters still are distant. You, however, seem to have done well for yourself in many aspects. Your positive outlook is contagious, and I know posters on other threads appreciate it, too!

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - How are you doing physically? Any more thoughts on moving? What about your surgery?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I know what you mean about feeling "discombobulated". Once we've accepted that our families will never be the same, where do we go from there? I am already dreading Christmas this year. I've even looked into traveling somewhere by myself for vacation but most places I want to go to are booked up.

Hello to everyone else <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - How are you doing physically? Any more thoughts on moving? What about your surgery?

well, I just spent the entire day at the hospital, with the DR, getting fit for a cane, getting drugs, getting my disability parking sticker. Surgery will happen the week before X-mas, assuming I can survive that long. I'm keeping my house, dang it. Lots I still don't know, but the DR is doing a less invasive surgery than the standard one my dad had a few years ago. I should recover faster. However, because I'm "young" (at least in terms of hip replacements), I will probably have to have the surgery again in about 20-30 more years. It's still scary though. I still don't know how I will manage alone here, how I will get my driveway shoveled this winter, etc.

But not as scary as before I saw the surgeon.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - You said:

Quote

But not as scary as before I saw the surgeon.

You're right, sometimes the "not knowing" is worse. Our imaginations can go haywire, can't they? I find I have to get control of my thoughts sometimes and focus on 'what is true, honest, and just' or else they'd carry me away to the looney bin, LOL.

Why not go ahead and set up your snow shoveling brigade? I'm going to ask the guy who mows my yard if this is something he can do for me. Another option is to call a couple of landscaping companies - they do snow work in the "off" season, and usually welcome new potential customers.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - I would like to share something with you. If you're OK with it, would you send me an email? If not, I'll understand, and no problem. My address has been removed to protect the innocent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]Petvet [/color] - How are you doing these days? Are you still "an item" with Buddy? Whatever happened with the prenup questions?

Hi Everyone,

Wallace - I read your message and had to ponder it a little "Where do you go from here after all has been torn to shreds? How do you compensate for that?

That is a tough question, but I'll speak to you as a brother in the Lord. I feel just because a spouse leaves does not end or detour what God had/has planned for you. I believe if what you were seeking required two people H and W and one left, he will modify the blessing, but will not be hindered or stopped by any person. If you have the faith to believe for it, God has the ok to get it to you.

What I have found is that because of my exww leaving my blessings have gotten bigger despite her decision. So that's been my compensation, God will give you double for your trouble. I'm not talking about just money, but peace, joy, wisdom, etc.....

The biggest obstacle for me has been "Fear". The uncertainty to venture out in the unknown of my comfort zone. But once I made a break through, life hasn't been the same. I still have area's to work on, but I'm learning as I go.

When Peter saw Jesus walking on the water, Peter wanted to walk on the water(The unfamiliar) so bad. Jesus saw him and said "Come". Peter got out of the boat and started walking on the water, but then he began to sink when he begin to fear and started to look around and see the splashing waves and the howling wind (People laughing, mocking,lies and surrounding troubles) he then begin to sink back to what was familiar, he took his eyes off Jesus. What happened to him and what he saw became a stronger voice than the voice of truth and promises that was before him. Peter sank within and then sank without. So there, Peter struggled and was caught between what was familiar and unfamiliar.

So, you may have been tried through this process but I think you'll find the old you and the new you as you begin to step out on faith and remember the promises that he has for you and your life. At some point as you pray and stepout, the tragedy that happened in the boat will begin to fade with time.

When Jesus healed someone in the NT, during the healing process, he reminded them that they were a son or daughter of Abraham, a heir of the promises. This is still true for us today as spiritual sons and daughters. He reminded them that they had blessings in store for them that if they asked they would recieve.

I don't know if this helps, but all is not lost.

Avondale - I saw your message.

Take Care

EC

As usuall your words of wisdom and encouragement are greatly appreciated. I, too, am wrestling with the fear of the unknown right now. I need prayers to keep my focus and eyes on Jesus.

To Everyone,

I'm reminded of the passage in II Chronicles 20... King Jehosophat says, "We do not know what to do but our eyes are on You" The passage then goes on to detail how the victory is won by God's power. It's His battle. And this, too, is his battle.

Our first court date is Monday, at 9:30. I'd really appreciate all your prayers. We've tried to negotiate a deal out of court several times, but in the end we strongly disagree. H is now fighting for full custody. I do not see how he could get it apart from some MAJOR deceit and lies. He is really pressuring me now and making it so difficult in ways that I can't detail on-line.

I need prayers to stay strong and to keep trusting God through all of it. It is such an ugly mess. Divorce has to be one of the worst possible things in life to go through. I'm glad to know that most of you have made it to the other side. I can't wait for all of this to be behind me.

Thanks again to all of you for your encouragement and prayers. I'll let you know as soon as I can about the outcome of the 17th.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - It's good to hear from you. None of us want your custody situation to be made worse. I've circled your date on my calendar so I'll be thinking of you then. Please call or email me if you feel you cannot post an update here at that time.

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - I bet you have snow. I hope you haven't lost your electricity too!
[color:"blue"]
Deja Vu [/color] - How are things going? Is anything new with your supposed "D"? Has your H expounded on that? Any change in your health?

Hello to everyone else! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi all! There has been alot of postings going on lately. That's good.

EC: I agree with Wallace. You are spilling out some good comments. I see you are well verse in many things. Keep it going.

Wallace: How large is this restroom? Marble floors? How are things with you and your GF?

Avondale: Hope you are doing well.

Leah: I would be leery with your H trying to gain favors with the kids. Things are getting dirty I see. Kids loves folks who give them plenty of stuff.

Me: Buddy and I are doing well. The prenup issue has not come up again because I told her that my attorney has already told me that she would not advise me to sign one.
The EHarmony issue came up because Buddy said that if she was not with me, she would give EHarmony a try plus she has recommended it to several of her female friends. Things are going well. We are no longer in the enchantment stage anymore. She is a good lady.

Hey All,

avondale...

You hit the nail right on the head... we lost our electricity for two days. Had to clean up snapped tree branches from all the rain and then snow.

I took a break from the Tahj Mahal(sp) this week. Just decided to relax, and then we got hit with this snow storm. Couldn't lite my fireplaces up... the flue stacks were covered with tree limbs... and it did get cold.

EC...

Thanks for the insightful response.

There are times when things are going well, and I'm feeling really good about everything, and then all of a sudden, a trigger will come out of no where, and then "wham", I'm feeling like I'm lost out in the wilderness alone with no one. I do a lot of praying at that stage, and that feeling soon ends... but boy, it's a real ugly feeling when it hits.

Deju Vu...

A big ((((Dej Vu)))) for you.

It sounds like you need some in person support from a few friends, or family after your surgery. It sounds like you could use some now as well. Do you have anyone that can help you while all of this is going on? If not, find a good Church support group... there are plenty of good people out there, who would be willing to share your thought and help you through this difficult time.

Prayers for you Deja Vu... and hang in there, it will get better.

Leah...

How did you make out?

I'm in full agreement with Petvet concerning your "H". In addition to that... is your "H" willing to give up his play time to raise your children? Raising kids is a full time job, with not much room for free time. Is he up to that kind of situation?

Petvet...

Glad to hear that you and Budddy are still together.

I had to laugh when you said that you and Buddy are not in the enchantment stage anymore. If your both not in that stage, then what stage are you in? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My G/F and I are not in the enchantment stage anymore either... in fact I'm not sure what stage we are in. With her work load and all that I have going on... we are lucky if we see each other about once a week.

Marble floors for my restrooms will be coming soon. I'm still working on the diamond studded shower tiles at the moment. lol

Hello to Trusting Him, let us know how you are doing, and anyone else I may have missed.

Hope everyone has a good week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone...

Wallace - I know what you mean by things are going great then out of nowhere old feelings of d-day pops up. Glad to hear your bathroom work is going great. The day is coming that when I get my house I'm going to install me a wall mounted urinal in the bathroom. Since I'm single why not? No more aiming for me. Women seem to can't handle the thought of that, it goes against there nature <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
They can't standup and face the challenge on that one, we got em <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I might even plaster the walls with a forest scene so I can feel like I'm outside in the woods <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Thats a good way to make sure the grass is greener on the other side <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'll just pretend I'm in OM's yard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Petvet - Glad to hear from you. Thought maybe you eloped or something. Can't tell what you lover boys will do from week to week <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Leah - I'll be praying for you on your court date. Just remember no matter what happens stay encouraged and don't give up.

Me: Not much happening on my end.

Take Care - Hello TH, Avondale, Deja VU and anyone I missed!!

Hi everyone, I'm back. I had a judging assignment last weekend and have two more coming up before my surgery. They are about killing me.

I've sent several notes to my attorney that I want this thing DONE before my surgery. Nothing so far.

I've met with the surgeon, and today the occupational therapist. Do you know what it feels like to not be able to put your socks on? or trim your toenails? today they gave me some equipment to help with this. I've been looking into services to help me out - big things like snow removal and small things like how to get laundry down the steps while on crutches.

[color:"red"]Leah[/color] - THANKS FOR EVERYTHING. Today I got mail...more later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]EC[/color] - re: your forest and urinal story - you have so much wisdom for the rest of us, that it seemed like you must have everything under control. I guess it's never really over, is it? Or maybe ... someday.

[color:"red"]Wallace:[/color] I'm replacing my non-studded toilet with a rust-free, crud-free model - soon, very soon, before I need to retrofit it for my post-op recovery. That's as close as I'm getting to bathroom remodeling.

[color:"red"]To everyone else:[/color] How's everyone else doing? I've been stopping by to read, but this is the first time in about a week that I've had time to write.

[color:"blue"]EC [/color] - I about spit out my drink when I read your urinal story! I can't believe you'd do that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> That's not going to endear you to any women who might happen to be in your house! But if peeing on the OM's yard makes you happy...

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Good to hear from you; I was wondering how things were going. What do you make of not hearing from your attorney? Is he(she) busy with too many clients?

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I'm glad we talked. I think we should get together soon in person. We're not THAT far away, ya know!

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - If you see your GF only once a week, is that enough for her? I thought she wanted to see you more often. As for what stage you're at in your relationship - it used to be that you and your GF were at different stages, LOL. Are you on the same one now?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - It's good to hear you're not in that enchantment stage anymore yet you still like her. Tell me something - is she the first lady you dated post-divorce? Have you heard of the statistics of post-D relationships falling apart? They're pretty high, but you seem to have conquered that. Good for you and Buddy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - WHERE ARE YOU?!?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Well, I now have two lawyers. Both are pretty big hitters. They also found my pre-nup in their files - good thing, as I couldn't find my copy. I told them today - get this thing over with before I have my surgery.

I'm trying real hard to be patient, but there are days I want to explode and this is one of them. I'm sorry but I'm not feeling much like talking right now. I'll stop back later.

Hi everyone...

Just passing through to say hello...

Deja Vu - Glad things are moving for you

Avondale - Regarding my bathroom idea, I would make sure I had a wall petition so it would look nice and all. I guess I like to be different. Another thing I would definatly have in my yard is a 6-8ft round large gold fish pond with a pump. I'm getting to the point where I can dream again about crazy things I want and attempt them rather than dream about it but then put it on the back burner consumed with the pain and say oh well one day. It's been a progression through the pain but things do get better with time.

Take Care

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Two lawyers! Hopefully that will ensure having all your i's dotted and t's crossed. I know this is draining on you, especially with the surgery date looming overhead. You are in my thoughts!

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - You have always been a dreamer since I've seen you here. It's so good that you are at a place where you can actually bring some of those dreams to fruition! But if you put a pump in the goldfish pond, wouldn't it suck out the fish? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> LOL

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I haven't forgotten...Monday is your day. I have little "Leah notes" in several places of my house so I won't forget to pray for you.

[color:"blue"]Wallace and Petvet [/color] - Check out this thread in the Divorced/Dating forum
[color:"red"]What is a Date? [/color]

Hi everyone...

Leah - Hope everything went ok today...

Avondale - The pump is more for a waterfall but it also puts oxygen in the water. So the fish would be safe.

Me: I got the biggest laugh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> today when I was searching the dictionary and found out the word "Yahoo" means (stupid person) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I wonder if they knew that before they called themselves that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />?

Anyway have a great day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - how about an update? Let us know how things went.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - I bet David Filo and Jerry Yang, the guys who created Yahoo.com, are laughing all the way to their banks. Those two "yahoos" are worth about 3 billion each, according to a recent Forbes magazine article I read.

[color:"blue"] EverlastingCompassion [/color]

I loved the story about Peter and it does relate to what Wallace was asking, [color:"purple"] ... but when you center your whole life around your family, and it's torn to shreds... [/color]

I guess that's why I love the class that I've been helping with for the last few years.Onf of the first things we talk about is "What is at the center of your life?"

Husband or wife
Job
Children
Finances
Parents
Beliefs
Friends

These are the things we tend to orbit around. But the ad thing is that most of those things in our lives can disappear and it sends us into this huge emotional tumble.

And in the end the only permanet thing we can have is our relationship with God. So I;ve spent the last three years trying to re-establish my orbit around him and much like you said:

Quote

So that's been my compensation, God will give you double for your trouble....money, but peace, joy, wisdom, etc....

and that peace, joy and wisdom have played a huge role in getting stable again.

But...back to Peter. Did you notice that he said "Master, if it's really you, call me to come to you on the water." And when the Master called Peter went. If only he had kept his eyes on Him instead of those crashing waves. So in that we know that the Master is calling to us, to let Him be the center of our lives.

As usual, your words of wisdom are always appreciated and help to keep me centered where I need to be. Thanks!

P.S. I loved the bathroom idea. There's just something about looking at the forest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]Leah2be [/color]

I've offered up a late prayer as I was away all last week camping with the children. I am so sorry to hear about your turn of events. I truly pray that things begin to turn in your favor. I find it hard to believe that he would do this unless of course he's just trying to get at you for some reason or another.

You are right, it is His battle and He is still in control but at times even that knowledge brings little relief or pleasure into our lifes when dealing with people like our former spouses. I often wonder exactly what goes on in their heads and minds with some of their ideas.

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color]

Taj Mahal, Marble Floors, Diamond Studded Shower Tiles

What exactly are you doing out there? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I think I somewhat replied to yur question in EC's area. I do agree with you that we may never be the same again but that does not keep us from becoming something better. I hear in your writings a person who has come far and faced many obstacles to get where you are today. Just keep heading in that direction. We can't change the past nor predict the future but we can sure make the most of each day that we have.

Sorry to hear about the no electricity and plugged flues. Ouch! Hopefully things have eased up a bit and you can get some heat back.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color]

It is so good to hear that your spirits are better than before. Oh! We all have those days where we wonder if we can even survive another one yet we wake up and somehow manage to get through it all.

I am glad to hear that your sugery will not be as bad as first expected. Will you share your disability parking sticker with me. There are times that one of those would come in handy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Avondale got it right with her comment of : Our imaginations can go haywire, can't they? and when we begin to look back we often wonder how or why we made it out to be as bad. But that's the trick, learning to control where our mind goes and what it dwells on. No matter the circumstances we can always find a glimmer of good on most days. Find that glimmer and hold onto it.

Quote

Do you know what it feels like to not be able to put your socks on? or trim your toenails?

Sorry, I had to add something here. Yes! I do! Or at least for the last few days anyway. The children and I were camping last week and being the foolish man that I am I attempted to be a young one again. One of the boys who went camping with us brought hsi bike and was riding wheelies around the campsite.

Of course him being 15 and me slightly older I was getting ragged about being an old man. Now in the early years I could pretty much ride bikes, skateboards and most anything else with wheels. So of course I jumped on his (which of course was 4 sizes to small) and began riding. After a few rounds that feeling began to return and I got a little to agressive in my adventures.

Needless to say I ws the camp laughing stock for a few days as many saw me tumble headfirst over the handlebars into a gravel paved access road. Ouch! Yes, I layed on the ground for a few minutes trying to make sure that everything still worked and eventually managed to get up and walk.

But with brusied ribs, strawberries on my arms and shoulders and a HUGE bruise on my shin I could barely move the next morning.

But it did get better and you will too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Avondale [/color]

Quote

My address has been removed to protect the innocent.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> That takes all the fun out of it.

It is good to see you still here and encouraging everyone. At least we know what your gift is and it is appreciated here. Thanks for hanging around us folks who keep trying to get their lives straightened out.

I'm jealous that I wasn't asked to go look at "What is a Date? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Petvet, Relady and others [/color]

Hello and hope that everything is going well in your lives.

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - It is beyond great to hear from you! You have my email address, so you're not missing anything. As for the "What is a Date" thread, the reason I didn't mention you is cuz I didn't think you were dating (and [color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] and [color:"blue"]Petvet [/color] are). But if you're dating, go look at it. And of course, you need to tell us on this thread aaaaallllllllll about your dates! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Don't hold anything back!

Hi Everyone,

To each of you... thank you so much for your thoughts and prayers for my day in court yesterday. I really, really appreciate it!! Thank God,things went well. The judge decided to give jurisdiction to the circuit court, which is where my attorney wanted our trial to be.

So now the big date is October 31st - Halloween. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The forces of good and evil... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Anyhow, this is the big one,custody, visitation, child support and possession of the home will be established. I'm just trying to trust God with all of it.

Meanwhile, I need lots of prayers to stay strong. H is really putting the pressure on me from all angles to settle out of court. He's been VERY nice then equally angry and hateful, trying to manipulate me to sign his agreement.

One day last week, he came into the house and ate some stew I had made. He started commenting on how he missed my cooking and many other things about me. He said he had many regrets that he hadn't demonstrated his love to me in a way that I could know it's real. He said he still loved me. All this was said with tears in his eyes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

He then went on to say wouldn't it be great to always get along so well. I answered, "H, I have always wanted so much more than just getting along with you. I've wanted to be your wife and your partner" He then said, "If you sign the agreement that could be just the beginning for us. We could end the fight and then we could start rebuilding our relationship." Tempting words for this thick headed, marriage loving fool. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

But, thankfully, I'm not quite THAT stupid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> When I didn't agree to his terms, he turned equally hateful the next day. I expect to experience more of the same between now and our next court date.

Thank you again for all your words of encouragement and advice. I'm trying to STAY STRONG through all of this.

Trusting Him,

So glad to hear from you at last. Please keep writing. I'm sorry about your fall-ouch. I hope you mend quickly.
Thank you for praying for me. That is what is getting me through.

Wallace,

Too bad you couldn't post some pictures of your great masterpieces. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure they must be something with all the time and effort you have spent of them.

Petvet,

I had to smile at the "enchantment" stage being over. It's nice that you're still calling her a good lady even though that stage is done. So what's the next stage for you?

E.C.

You really do sound so good! It seems you have such a positive outlook and are really moving on in life. That is wonderful! Thanks for your prayers and encouragement.

Avondale,

Thanks to you too! Always good talking to you.

Deja Vu,

I'll be trying to e-mail you soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi all...

Leah - Glad things went better for you, keep the faith!!

TrustH - I guess you're not the spring chicken you used to be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I had a funny experience today that caught me off guard.

A teenager was walking by me as I was standing in a doorway <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, and as he was walking toward me looking very respectful, he said excuse me "OG". I said oh, sure. As he went by, I looked <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> and scratched my head and said to myself, who's OG? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Now in my life time I've been called, LG (little guy)...BG(big guy), but never OG!....So as I meditated on it for a while, I figured out OG means ("Old guy!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I said, ok that's new <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

So I guess I'm out of date with the latest slang. The guy was young enough to be my son. He was just a young whippersnapper <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So that was my youthful experience of the day. I guess that's better than the pain of being twisted in some handle bars <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Take Care

Hey All!

Well it's the time of the year that's coming up that I dread the most. That's right! "The Holiday Season!"

EC... I had a really good laugh when I read about you wanting to install a Urinal in your bathroom. I never gave it much thought until you brought it up. You may be onto something there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

avondale...

Great question about, "is seeing my G/F once a week enough for me? Well I would like to see her more, but her work schedule with her business has doubled, as she took on anothe Major Client, so I'm pretty adaptable and I'll work with the hand that is given me.
She on the other hand was doing pretty good with her schedule up until yesterday... now she wants to get married as soon as possible, and see me more. She say's that she is getting the feeling that I will never make the move ever again to marry. I told her to just work with me and give some more time, and it will all come together.

I glanced at the link you posted in the dating forum... I still need to go back and read it, and see what, if anything I can say.

Leah...

Well it sounds like things are moving forward, and I have faith the the Lord will bless you when you have your Final hearing. Your "H", is a real manipulator all right. You would think he could of come up with a better line than the one you posted about signing the agreement. WS's... sometimes they think they are so smart... when in fact you can see right through them after they have been exposed for their true worth.

Stay the course... your doing good by the sounds of it.

Deja Vu...

I like your idea of bathroom upgrades... a new toilet and that's all. This bathroom remodeling just kind of took off and kept growing, and growing. The sad part is... it really wasn't in bad shape to start with... I just decided it needed some updating, as well as my other bathroom, kitchen... and the list goes on.

Trusting Him...

Ouch!!! That sounds like something I would of done as well.

I rode on one of my kids skateboards not to long ago, and I about killed myself trying to do a trick with it. Needless to say... I'm all done with skateboards.

Petvet...

Glad to hear that you find your buddy, "a very good lady".

So what stage are you in now?

I'm in the... "I'm scared to ever get married again stage!"

Not sure when it all started... but all I know is it did. I'm not sure if I really want to go down that road again.

Me...

Well my YD pulled a good one on me the other night.

She pulled out a family photo album. It contained pictures of when we were still a family and we were all at DisneyWorld. She had me look at this one picture of all us standing there together as you first walk into Epcot Center.
I could only look at the one picture for a few seconds, and the I asked her why she pulled it out? She said, "no particular reason. That was eight years ago! Seems like only yesterday.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone...

Wallace - The Urinal idea is not that I want to be selfish in any way. But if you're going to have a bathroom why not have it accomidate both male and female. They're not expensive or to hard to install. Another idea I have is to have a car lift in the floor of my garage decorated with a 1950's look.

These are not far fetched or expensive things. But usually when you have a house men seem to do what makes there wife happy, which is good, but what about the shared compromise that it makes you happy to see her happy and it makes her happy to see you happy? So this time I'll be happy whether a woman is there or not. Soooo.. you don't have to be rich to do an extraordinary thing, you just need an extraordinary dream.

As it is said, money and things don't bring you happiness, but money backed with a purpose in life will bring you great joy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

***
TrustH - That was a good point you mentioned about Peter. He said "Master" if its you call me to come.

It's funny, but when Jesus calls us to step out of the boat and walk on the water we're so afraid. Even once we're out of the boat we get afraid and try to run back. One of the biggest things he's trying to get us to do is "To walk over the things that once walked on us"

As time goes on and as you begin to stepout in new areas of your life God has for you, you begin to find OM/OW soon under your feet.

In our walk with the Lord, I found this interesting. Jesus said we are the salt of the earth and a light to the world.

Water freezes at 32 deg and below. If salt is added, it won't freeze until at 0(zero)deg. Oil in a vessel will burn bright as the oil is maintained.

So, when the cold winds of life blow, we have been blessed with salt to weather the cold times. When the fiery hot trials come, our lifes burn even brighter, for we have the Oil of gladness and joy in our vessels.

Life issues will never get too cold or too hot, more than you can bear, as you trust him. The Coldest love can't stop you, neither the hottest trials of words or afflictions.

Take Care

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - How are you doing? Is everything proceding the way you want? Can you post an update?

I hope everyone has a great weekend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi all,

I'm in Chicago and there's wireless in my hotel so I was able to log on tonight. Have a big day tomorrow so I'm going to bed soon.

Basically nothing very new to report this week, other than I've learned of a new type of surgery that would be way better for me. I've been looking into it this week, hoping to find a way to make it work. It has a much faster recovery and I'd be able to return to all former activity which the normal surgery wouldn't allow. Major quality of life issue! So what's wrong with it? Not FDA approved and therefore no insurance. The estimate for surgery in this country is $38,000 - if I feel like flying to India I can do it for $6,000.

I'll check in when I'm back home on Monday again.

Enjoy the weekend everyone! It's supposed to rain here in Chicago.

Hi Everyone.....

Just passing through to say hello..

Stay encouraged the best days are before you.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Have you ever had this strange feeling your ex is reading your post from all these years? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Petvet,Wallace,Avondale,Leah,Deju Vu,TrustH and anyone else I missed.

Take Care

I would be very glad if my ex read my posts. I don't think I've said anything that was untrue, and if he was reading this it might mean he's reconsidering some of his previous actions! Maybe there would be hope...

How's everyone doing? We're actually having a freeze warning tonight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hey All!

EC...

I don't think I have to worry about my exW reading anything on here that I post. She doesn't know about MBers, plus she isn't really interested in what might make a marriage work. She's only interested in what happiness she can get for today... for herself... she doesn't care about what might make someone else happy.

avondale...

I'll trade places with you... we have been down in the 30's at night over here... but the days have been just wonderful.

Me...

Well my relationship with my G/F may be numbered.

We are starting to go in different directions... so I would say, after 3 years... we may be calling it a day in the not to distant future. I know all of you have heard this before... but there is something different that is taking place here. Not really sure what it is, or how to stop it... I just know that we are moving farther and farther apart.

Hope everyone is doing well!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all:

I am sort of new, and I've been reading and reading all this concept of tough love, I guess I really don't know how to take this thing that has happened to me.

I believe in not having hope anymore, I believe that there's a reality that we must face but I also wish I could run away from it all.

I wonder why love becomes hate, I wonder when will my time come to feel indiference towards this man. I wonder if I will ever love and be loved again?

I'm only 31 and was left with my dreams thrown out the window, was left with a very low selfesteem and having to live life for the first time alone. I was underestimated and it was all my fault, I wanted to make him feel important and that he was all that. I played god and gave a scorpion wings.

------------------
Age: 31
Status: D in process
State of mind: different every day

Hi Everyone....

Avondale - Yes, I agree that what a peeping ex reads here would be good for them. What's more interesting is that spouses who are currently cheating read these post but are to coward to admit there adultery and bring it out in the open to get relief of the guilt and shame. They may never register or post, but they still peep and watch practicing there dirty nasty cruel deeds on there mate.

Wallace - Ok Wallace, yes we have heard the g/f crash and burn story before. However you guys seem to pull it together and move on. If you're growing farther apart is it only because you both are busy? If you both become unbusy maybe you will grow back together, only time will tell. So whats brewing thats different this time?

Hopetexas - Welcome....I'm sure lot's people have said a lot of things already and mine is nothing new, but I would like to add that what a person or spouse does, do not stop the dream you have in you. They may cause it to detour another way and direction but nobody has that much power over you. The gifts and things that God has placed in you will never die. Ok, so you helped him excel...Only a person who flys and rises above issues can give another person wings to fly also, therefore your value as a person is not anything less, but as you said, you gave wings to a scorpion. Jesus said I give you power to tread(walk)over scorpions.

You can give wings to a pig, but if that pig is not interested in learning what they are for, but insist on rolling in the pigpen, there's nothing you can do. So is it your fault that you try to help people excel beyond who they see themselves as? No!....Everybody needs somebody in there lives that can speak and encourage that person to be all they can be. The problem: Some lose themselves in the process, therefore balance is needed.

I am convinced of this one fact that, just because a person has been cheated on, has nothing to do with you or whether you loved them fully or whether you can be loved again. We put too much blame on us for there actions. The BS beats themselves up too much over these things. Sure we could have done things differently, but even in that, if that person is corrupt and has an evil lustful heart, there's nothing anyone can do to make them happy.

When they cheat on there next victim om/ow, they turn on the charm just long enough to bring them into there bitter snare of bondage and shame. While they may appear happy they are tormented.

So my thing is work on you, start living again, correct where you went wrong, be good to you, be nice to your spouse, if they come back great, if they don't, at least you got your life again and will make a strong impact on the lives of others and generations to come.

Hi all! Passing through.

Dejavu: Two attorneys and surgery. I guess I have missed something. Is your ailment serious? Do you think two attorneys will get the job done any better or sooner than one attorney? Just Asking.

Avondale: Are you planning some renovations to your restroom? Buddy has been doing alot of renovations to her home including private quarters, nice bathroom along with hottub, etc. Are you ready to hit the dating scene?

EC: Always putting forth good comments. As I have said before, you should try writing a book. SERIOUSLY!

Leah: Is you case just about over?

Wallace: OK! What's going on now? The honeymoon stage is over; Now, it's time to get down to the meat and potatoes. Stay with the lady until she takes herself out of the picture. Face it, you are not getting married anytime soon. Maybe you guys need to take a break from eachother for a while.

Me: I have had a bad couple of weeks. A good coworker and friend died of a braintumor after surgery. She just found out she it the tumor six weeks earlier. I found out about it at the last minute. Also, I lost my favorite show dog two weeks ago. One week after the funeral of my friend. Everyone seems to be surprise that I called Buddy a "GoodLady". She really is. She's the best woman I have ever dated in my life. What's the next step? Well, there is only one place to go and that's marriage as far as I am concern.

Later.

Quote

Dejavu: Two attorneys and surgery. I guess I have missed something. Is your ailment serious? Do you think two attorneys will get the job done any better or sooner than one attorney?

I don't know - my attorney brought his partner into the case to help with some areas of legalities (like the prenup), and because he has more experience with filing in the county where STBX lives.

I'm having my hip either replaced or resurfaced, depending on whether I can get insurance coverage for resurfacing. This issue has actually risen to the forefront, overshadowing even the D at this point, believe it or not. Yeah, it's a big deal as I live alone and there are many things I will not be able to manage, especially in the winter in MN. For a full hip replacement, it will be 2-3 monhts of no driving; several weeks on crutches and without being able to take care of myself, the house, or the dogs for awhile. Not sure how long before my dogs can come home - they're being farmed out with varous people. But, the resurfacing would only be about 6 weeks of no driving, and the dogs and I could both come home after about a week. Full recovery without limitations that I would have from the full hip.

Oddly enough one of my major concerns is I want the D done before I go under the knife. If anything would happen to me, my H would get all my property, including my house - and that would kill me (not to be redundant or anything!)

I think Monday is Leah's next court date, right? Praying for you, Leah!

Wallace: Sounds like you are at a crossroads - go with your gut, I say.

Avondale: how's things with you?

Petvet: Sorry to hear about your run of deaths lately. It's hard to lose good friends, and it's hard to lose our special dogs too. How old was your friend? Your dog? You have Mals, right?

You're in my prayers Leah2be. Know that we are all thinking about and praying for a positive outcome.

Hey All,

How is everyone?

I've been trying to post and have been unsuccessful, I'll try one more time. This new board lost me sometime ago!
I'll be more careful this time. One wrong move and my entire post just disappears. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Avondale: How are you? Have you settled into your new life yet? Don't wait too long, the world is waiting.

EC: It was just as I said, you CANNOT forget this 'tough love' board, regardless of how hard you try. Great to see you posting again.

Leah: I've kept you in my prayers constantly, hope all will soon be well.

Wallace: I wish I could find a 'spinning head' face!! Are you sure you didn't get married already and just afraid to mention it?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Petvet: When's the wedding?

Me: a quick update: I'm still in school, hopefully only one year left...I opened my own real estate company...Still have not seen or heard from X or anyone associated with him...could care less...not dating, only networking!

Hello to anyone I might have missed. I'll be checking in regularly.

relady

Hopetexas,

You express sentiments I think most of us can relate to - many of your feelings are ones I'm still having even though I moved out many months ago now and it has almost been a year since I left.

Hang in there. You're among friends!

Hi Everyone,

Great news!!! For any I don't have e-mail addresses for, a quick report. Today's day in court went well. I'm so thankful and relieved. The judge awarded primary custody to me. The girls will see their dad every other weekend and every Thursday night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll try to get back some time this week and write more. I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for your thoughts and prayers!!! Your friendship and support mean so much to me.

AVONDALE, I'm sorry I had to get off the phone so quick today. I'll try to give you a buzz later this week. I had family and friends here who were waiting to eat- We were having a little celebration of praise to God! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - We are all sooooo happy for you! God is good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Relady [/color] - HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You have been sooooo missed, and it's great to have you posting again. Don't disappear like that!

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I laughed at Relady's "spinning head" icon, it's so true. Do you feel you're just drifting apart (somewhat naturally, because you aren't "keeping up" the relationship) or is there something specific that's happened? The holidays tend to make people more intentional towards relationships, do you think that would help or hurt the one with your GF?

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - How long do you have to decide which surgery you want to choose? Is it solely in your hands or will the doctor ultimately decide which method?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Have you and Buddy discussed a timetable for marriage? If so, let us in on it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]EC [/color] - Hope you're doing well. You are in my thoughts!

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - Good to hear from you too (even though it was only directed to Leah!). What's new with you on the "relationship" front?

[color:"blue"] Hope [/color] - Welcome to Tough Love...this thread started with the philosophy of "Love Must be Tough" book, as written by Dr. James Dobson. We don't focus on that, obviously. Are you familiar with the book and the principles in it?

Leah2be
That is so good to hear! As Avondale said... God is GOOD!.

Avondale

Relationship front! *chuckles* As you know the former wife has threatened to go back to Court for additional money. In the midst of that I'm till trying to figure a way to get a very specific point across but it sure seems foolish whne dealing with an anrgy an irate woman.

Life with me

But on that note I did see an attorney yesterday. It turned out to be an enlightening meeting. After discussing the reason that my former wants more money she chuckled and said that in the state of Alabama circumstances, ie. dollar amounts, have to change by at least 10% before most attorneys will even file a CS Modification. In out case my $ definately has not changed by 10% as I've received no raise sonce the divorce.

In the former's case she has received a raise and failed to report her part time job when we originally filed for Divorce. In the Attorney's words Failure to disclose all sources of income is a contempt issue. In other words, if the former does file for a modification odds are that what she receives from me would actually decrease.

Several of the issues tht were mentioned during our meeting brought concern or raised concern for the welfare of our children. She was a very profesional lady but did say she has seen people come back with smalled issues than what we discussed and a custody changed was awarded.

She felt that with the issues we discussed that should I be served papers from the formers attorney to just provide her name as the repreenting attorney and she would handel it from there. Her "gut" was that with what we discussed would be more than enough for her to convience that a court battle or midification was not necessary.

She also "gleaned" that I'm not relly intrested in a huge, ugly drawn out custody battle but simply want whats best for the children. But should it come to that she feels that I have a HUGE chance in winning given the conservative nature of the Judge in the county the former resides in.

Remember our conversation?

The attorney's last words as I walked out of her office, " Have you told your former how you feel about her?"

I really need to quit hearing that from these people! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Avondale:
No I haven'tm read the book or know the concept, but now that you mentioned it, I went to B&N page and read about it.I see that the book helps you save your marriage, but mine can no longer be saved. I was the one trying hard everyday to save our marriage and he seemed indiferent to every attempt eventhough he messed up many times, but he had this wonderful capacity or call it "talent"of turning things against me and make me feel like I was to blame for HIS mistakes.

I believe that when the other part no longer wants,shows or gives any hope to save your marriage there's nothing you can do. Let me tell you what I did that let me know he no longer cared for me: After two days of being asked for the divorce; one night it came to my mind that if I "faked" to faint he would show his real feelings, it was 2 am and the only thing that came to mind was to prentend I was going to the bathroom and "pull" the covers slightly while falling and saying his name in a very low voice (gosh, I can't believe I did this!!!!), so I did and he got up and just looked at me from the edge of the bed and just called my name like three times, then after a puff, he "had" to get up and just tried to roll me over while calling my name in a very calm way,he then grabbed me from the side of my arms and slightly moved me, at that point I wanted to cry so hard because I had realized that he did not care at all, I pretended to be in shock and then opened my eyes like if I were dizzy, he asked me -you ok?- I said -yes, I think so- he then, put me back to bed and wnet back to sleep .. the man started snorring!!!!!!. How humiliating can that be???, yeah, both reactions where humiliating but I remembered how in the movies you would tell if the person cared for you by his reactions while the spouse was unconscious, so I did what I had to do, although I now laugh about it, it also hurts.

He is determined to finish this marriage and wants it to be over with by February, I guess he wants a birthday gift. He says it's because of the taxes but I know we can file seperate next year and that's it. I want to take my time and he does not respect that.

The way I see it is that if I make any attempt he will reject me in horrible ways, like he has at the beginning of the separation. He has becomed so cold hearted.

I guess it's not up to me anymore, it's all in Gods hand.

DejaVu:

Thanks for your words, I'm really trying to hang in there. But I also want to leave this behind, but he left me a message of "hope" when he asked me to watch the movie THE NOTEBOOK, It's ridiculous to have done this a week before our break up. If you want to come back don't treat your spouse like dirt and insult her with your teenager behaviour and make parties and tell her friends -I'M AFRAID I MIGHT FIND HER IN A NIGHT CLUB OR A JAZZ BAR, SHE MIGHT MAKE A SCENE IF SHE SEES ME-, my friend obviously told him "chill out Jigolo", you should know her better like to be hanging out in the same places as you and to be looking for a person in night clubs, she's better than that.

I mean the man is confussed and is using the words I used to use when we started having problems to convince him that we were good together and he would calm down and realize that it was no biggy, but I guess with his son coming to our life's and him not handling things to ease my responsabilities as a step mom and not knowing how to be a dad killed our relationship, of course like I mentioned before, he knew how to blame me for his mistakes and I let him.

He recognizes his mistakes but his last words always are: WELL, BUT SHE SAID GOODBYE TOO MANY TIMES.

Gee! How can you compete with such dumb arguement??!!

Hope
Everyone on this thread tried with everything in their power to save their marriages, and it didn't work for any of us. So you're in the right place with a great group of people, IMHO.

Regarding your previous "theatrical performance" and movie, "The Notebook": In some cases I think movies and books create unrealistic expectations. Take, for example, those romance novels - most of that is from the author's imaginations and when asked (I know one of them), they will tell you they've never personally had a relationship with the amount of sex, chemistry, etc. that their novels portray. They are writing what people (esp. women, who gravitate to the more emotional aspect) want to read.

This (above) may not apply to you personally but I think sometimes it's real easy for us to glamourize (or hyper-spiritualize) our relationships and compare to what we *think* is normal - but what we think is normal, really is not normal at all.

Well, he really did it for me last night. My best friend told him SHE NEEDS TIME, he got upset and told her I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE'S HOLDING ON TO, IT'S OVER, she looked at him and told him SHE IS NOT HOLDING ON TO YOU, BUDDY, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK?!!, SHE NO LONGER HAS ANY HOPES OF HER COMING BACK TO YOU, THAT'S THE LAST THING ON HER LIST OF PRIORITIES- he didn't say a single word, but then he told her that I had no criteria, that everybody had to tell me what to do and what I'm doing is only because my parents and family have told me what to do!! so she told him in a very calm way -SHE IS NOT AS STUPID AS YOU THINK SHE IS, DON'T UNDERSTIMATE HER, SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE IS DOING, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, BUT IF I WERE YOU I WOULD NOT THINK OF HER THAT WAY IF I WERE YOU- he one again did not say a word.

So, he called my best friend last night again, threatning that HE wanted to do things in a FRIENDLY way, that WE had agreed that we were going to do things right, but if I wanted to play dirty that I should then face the consequences. He hangs up and calls my friend again saying that he had spoken with his lawyer and that we were going to take this in court and that when the judge would ask about the house that he was going to TELL the judge that I was going to keep it and that I had to deal with it, that his lawyer and him were going to give me a week to sign those papers, otherwise we were going to court and that he was going to sue me, because since everything is half and half that I was going to pay half his taxes (the guy had to pay 10 thou in taxes last year). He really thinks I'm that dumb.

But just in case, I called my lawyer (I didn't want to take things this far) and a friend and she told me, he is just bluffing, he should not be saying these things. My friend will help me to pay the lawyer.

I loved this man so much, I can not believe we had to come this far. He is a monster, and he deserves no mercy from me. He is way to intellingent so I have decided to fight a bully with another bully ... MY LAWYER!!

He'll hear from me ... her today! and then we'll see if his lawyer is so tough to help him come out of this one clean. I have too much information against him, he has nothing against me!! yeiiiiiiiiiiii.

Well, not really happy, but I was forced to take this step. MB's knows I didn't want this for us or for me or for him.

Veronica.

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[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - How long do you have to decide which surgery you want to choose? Is it solely in your hands or will the doctor ultimately decide which method?

The latest as of today is I have been approved for the new and improved surgery - that will be simpler for recovery and better for my long term ability to do things. Now, the insurance hurdle still has to be climbed as I can't afford to pay without insurance coverage.

Meanwhile, I couldn't wait to have surgery apparently, so last night I managed to get a trip to the ER in the middle of the night to sew up my forehead. I tripped and fell in the dark and gashed my head open. Kind of scary as I couldn't stop the bleeding and found myself not really prepared to cope with an emergency alone. Fortunately it worked out, as well as it could, and I'm home and alive!

Hi Everyone...

Relady - Glad to hear from you. Happy to see things are going great for you. You are always inspiring. Keep posting we need you.

Deja Vu - Sorry to here of your accident. Glad you are recovering.

Leah - Hurray! Happy outcome!

Petvet - I considered doing a book before, maybe one day, who knows?

Avondale - You gave some good advice on another thread about not giving up early. That seems to be the trend these days, giving up. Somehow people think divorce is the quick solution in workable cases. Many are following the illusion that they'll be happier if they divorced when in fact they never discovered what marriage is about. Sure, dv happens but the best thing a person could do is read, research material and make sure they're doing there part. I'm seeing a lot of wanting out because of visions are no longer united, no communication and grown apart.

Take Care.........

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - Thanks for the kind words.

[color:"red"] EVERYONE [/color] - Please tell me what you think of this...I can't figure out what MY problem is with this situation:

Exhubby is not staying at his house (which is near mine and I pass it often). I imagine he's probably living with his new GF but not sure; he hasn't been there for several months now. This is not what bothers me.

What bothers me is that our daughter won't believe me when I tell her that he's not living there. I know she wants to believe the best in him, after all he's her dad. She realizes what he's done is wrong, she's hurt by his actions, etc. She sees him every week or two for a class (which allows them to talk without getting into anything personal or potentially hurtful) which I think is a good thing.

Why does it bother ME that she won't believe he's not living in that house? I have a feeling it's MY issue and I can't figure it out. Is it just that I want her to believe me more than him? It seems like a bigger deal than that. Any insight would be very welcome!

Avondale - Your D sounds so much like mine. My D to date lives in denial. My exww lived a double life, one in front of them and another in secret. My D refuses to think anything diff because it would shatter her childhood image of her mom, so she chooses to hold on to the old secure memory rather than accept the reality of what is actually happening. When they do see the truth, they dismiss it with another denial thought to secure the old memory, it becomes a cycle of denial to protect a safe memory of how it used to be.

One day they'll see everything and put 2 and 2 together. The focus then turns from which parent lied but who's still living the lie deceiving them as well. Thats the bigger injury.

I hear painful stories from kids these days of all ages saying that there dad was a playboy and that they always was forced to respect the tramp he paraded in front of them.

Anyway I think because you still love your ex and he was your best friend, you are still concerned, thats normal. You can't forget someone quickly after 20+ years together it takes time, besides, he's your neighbor. When your D gets curious enough, she'll search it out, remember, she's not a baby but a young lady now that knows guys behavior.

See ya!

Everlasting:

I think the same way as you. My marriage is one of those cases, where the exit was the easiest way. Of course he would some times tell me -You think I sometimes don't want to run out that door and never come back?, but I stay because I won't give up- and after 4 years and 5 months later he sure gave up too soon and all because he just didn't see a future for us and because he has said -If I have to do this 100 times I'll do it until I get it right-

That statement proves that people no longer know what love is all about. Problem is, how lucky can you get to find a person that believes that love can do it all and on top of that to actually have enough love from both sides to continue THRU GOOD AND BAD TIMES just as promised when you got married??!

Why do they forget?

Hi all!

Avondale: I think deep inside you are very bitter at your former, but you don't want to admit it. You want others to see how creepy he really is especially your kids. I would not worry about it because your D will find out the truth sooner or later. Let her find out on her own. If she does not find out anytime soon, just keep on keeping on. Conduct your life as though you could care less and move on.If your former wants to date ten young woman at a time, that's his right. If I were you I would not consider going back to him because he is chasing after younger woman. You don't need that in your life.

Hope: You may want to stop communicating with your H directly. You should go through an attorney. It just creates more stress than you already need.

Relady: I'm happy to hear that everythings OK in your life. How is the website?

Wallace: What the update on your GF? Is she still an item?

EC: What's going to be the title of your book? "Wandering Spouses from ******, The EC Prospective" or "Do You Drop Kick Them to the Curb or Just Kick Them by Dr. EC "The Lovebrainchild"

For those in the mest of Divorces proceedings, hang tough. Get what you deserve and need for your families.

Me: Life is good. Marriage? Hmmmmmmm. We'll see.

Later.

Hi Gang!

Just passing through....

Petvet - I think trying to title a book would be a hard thing to do...You got to have that catchy phrase and cover..

Me: I was watching Jay Leno lastnight and saw Terrence Howard on the show. Jay asked Terrence about a marriage restoration he experienced 1 month ago. He said he and his wife were previously married for 8 years, then divorced for 6 years until recently, at the beginning of the divorce she had a restraining order on him for 18 months, then last month after 6 years apart, they're at a gathering and she kisses him and they marry again 1 month ago.

Is that wild or what? Jay asked him, well who caused the breakup in the first place you or your wife?, Terrence said "life did", So here they are married all over again... I guess anything is possible when two hearts walk in forgiveness and see there own faults......

See Ya!

Hi All,

Deja Vu,

I'm so glad to hear the good report about insurance covering the new and improved surgery. That's great news! So is your surgery scheduled now? I'm sorry to hear about your late night visit to the ER. Hope you are all recovered from that. I'm praying for you.

Petvet,

It sounds as if you're getting closer to that big step... That will be some exciting news. It's great to see you moving on in life and happy once again.

You ask if the last court date was it. It actually was the one to establish temporary custody and support. I guess it's not finalized for another year. This divorce thing can sure be a long, drawn out process. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Relady,

I was so happy to see your post. Please stay in touch. We are always glad to have your encouraging, positive feedback. It sounds as if you're staying as busy as ever. I'm glad you're doing well. Thanks so much for your prayers.

Trusting Him,

How are all your children doing? Are they spending any more time with you or are you still following the old schedule? That was an interesting conversation that you had with your attorney. It sounds like you're in a good place with everything. God bless!

Wallace,

How are things going for you? Any new developments with your G/F? Are you okay with things? How about your bathrooms? Are you almost done? Thanks for your encouragement to stay strong through this process.

I'm finding that is an ongoing requirement thru this mess. H is still pushing the boundaries. I'm trying to find the balance between being reasonable and being a push-over. He continually ask for more time with the girls and wants to rearrange the schedule. I'm so use to giving in to him, so I really am asking God for wisdom with this whole situation.

E.C.

Writing a book would be quite the accomplishment. I've been told I ought to do that to with all that's transpired in my life. People have commented my life would make for a great movie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I'm hoping to have a little less drama from this point on... I've been writing to some on the thread that I have e-mail addresses for. I'd be glad to include you if you want to give me your address. There have been some on-going things that I haven't wanted to publically discuss. But again, I'm hoping that the worse of that is behind me.

Avondale,

How are you my friend? I totally understand the feelings you have in regard to your D's disbelief of the situation. It would bug me to. I find myself feeling the same way with my daughters in regard to their dad's behavior. You want to hear validation from them about truth but I'm learning it's just too difficult for them to express anything negative re: their dad. They would view it as being disloyal even though it might be the truth. So I try to accept that there are certain things they are never going to acknowledge even though they know the truth on some level. It's too painful for them to go there.

HopeTexas,

I'm sorry if I'm messing up your name. I don't dare go back as I would probably lose all I've written. I've done that a time or two. I understand much of what you're feeling. It's so very painful to experience the rejection of someone you thought would love you forever. Just know you are very loved by God and that you are very special to Him. Things will get better. Keep looking up and posting here. We've all been there and can totally relate to where you are. Take care.

Me,

I think I'm just starting to realize there could be a new beginning for me. I was so overwhelmed the past five months, I couldn't go further in my thoughts than the present. It was just survival. Now, the bars are starting to lift... I still have much to learn but I'm not living with constant rejection and fear.

As I wrote WALLACE, I am trying to find the right balance in things. I want to be kind yet wise. H is SO ANGRY right now. I'm trying to learn to turn a deaf ear to all his hurtful,accusing words. He still wants to make it all my fault. Maybe someday, he'll see things differently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Meanwhile, I must let go.... and be strong.

Thanks for the encouragement to continue to show "Tough Love". I think that is exactly where I need to continue to be. H wants me to make an out of court offer but I'm still in the dark financially. I think I've pretty much decided, I'm going to wait for the financial disclosures to be finished, then make some type of intelligent offer based on knowledge rather than nothing. Does that sound good?

Question about vacation and shared time,

To those who have ex- spouses involved in their childrens life, how do you divide holidays? The judge said that we could work that out. I was thinking of taking the number of days they were out of school and splitting them 50/50. But H is not agreeable to this. Any suggestions?

Hope you all have a great weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Actually that's not a done deal yet - the surgeon is more optimistic than I am, but it still remains to be approved. I'm x-ing my fingers...

Thank you Leah2be, I appreciate your words. God has showed me in so many ways that he is with me. I need to believe what I read not long ago: "No matter how deep burried love is; or how desperate the scenario is, nor how big the mistake, or how tangled the problem is. If you can love you will be the most powerfull and happy human being in the world" - (Metaphysics 4 in 1 book)

Everytime I open this book it tells me something to ease my pain, it's like it talks to me. And all it's about is about how to work the power within us, it's about KHARMA.

I once had my palm read to me and the lady told me I was going to marry twice, but she also described my first husband and it was so precise and exact that it now scares me, so when I met my husband I thought THE LADY IS CRAZY, THIS IS JUST LIFE, but I started believing in it little by little as problems arose, and I even told my husband SOME DAY YOU'LL LEAVE ME and he would hug me and tell me NEVER, UNLESS YOU WANT TO LEAVE ME-

I now think that I brought this upon myself, if I would've believed and forgotten about so much crap. So now I must trust in God and think in positive things and stop thinking about what could go wrong and if I don't deserve something I DO want, I want it and I will ask God for all good things.

I will ask and god shall give.

I feel violated. I'm so screaming mad - I can't even put in print the things I've been thinking these past couple of days.

We had another dog show this past weekend and I was very pleased that H had not entered. Finally I'd get some peace. But no. He showed up both days to "watch" (something that rarely happens - everyone was saying that it was really odd and manipulative that he did this). On Saturday he set himself up in conspicuous spots so that I couldn't even go to the bathroom without passing him, and made a point to sit right behind the scoring table where I was working. It looked to me like he was scoping out my new computer equipment (for devious purposes - more on this later). Then he left for a little while and returned with his new GF and her daughter. They hung out ALL day. It was SO in my face. Other people were uncomfortable about it too.

Then if that wasn't bad enough, they were back - all 3 of them - again on Sunday. This time they sat on the floor at the ring exit - within 2 feet of where the dogs exited. I'm sure he didn't know I wasn't running my own dog and intended to be in my face when I finished my run. Instead I had a junior handler showing my dog - and H managed to block their exit from the ring and make a big show of greeting my dog. I was steaming mad!

He has lied to people in this community, telling people we are divorced when the papers still aren't filed.

He is also trying to force me to incur high legal bills and is still trying to keep me from getting half the house equity. My lawyers tell me he can do any manipulative thing he wants and there is nothing in the laws to prevent him from making all kinds of frivilous arguments and stalling this as long as he wishes.

He is demanding that I "disclose" all kinds of personal information that has nothing to do with the real estate claim (which is the only point of contention that I know of.) But now I'm wondering what else he is planning to pull. He pretends he is dumb and incompetent but I now believe my attorney that the whole thing has been a con from day one. He married me for my money and intends to leave with it as well. If I stand up for my rights he's going to do everything in his power to screw me over. I can't even move forward on my surgery until this is resolved because of the financial implications. So, I limp and will continue to barely be able to walk - much less take care of this house - while he plays God.

The envelope from my lawyer that contains the disclosure request is an inch thick. It came Saturday and I have not opened it.

I already know he is asking for documents HE has in his possession and I can't produce. So, he'll say he doesn't have them either - and therefore I can't prove what was spent on the house. Of course I left the records for the house WITH the house, thinking that was the right thing to do.

Meanwhile - attorney fees are mounting. It's either that or give up a large amount of equity. Which H is trying to force me to do - with his lies and deceit, and borderline stalking behavior, I feel SO trapped. I am SO SO ready to give up. I don't even want to go on with this life anymore. I see no point to any of it anymore. I wish he was DEAD. I wish something awful would happen to him. I wish the people in this community who are my friends and who are appalled at his behavior would stand up and do something about it - ostracize him so he can't continue moving about at my expense and demanding his "rights" to do as he pleases no matter the cost to anyone else.

And I don't know how much longer I can tolerate this 24/7 hip pain - and the growing resentment that it is HIS fault that I have to live in this pain for God knows how much longer. I CAN'T STAND THIS ANYMORE.

Hi Everyone...

Deja Vu - I'm sure that must have been tough. More than anything you're still able to see a new day and experience greater blessings. One of the sad things that happen during DV is one partner tries to bankrupt the other, whether trying to take more than there share or by stalling with loophole schemes, driving the other parties attorney fees up so that they have nothing in the end. Hang in there, all is not lost.

Leah - Glad everything is looking up for you.

Hello - Avondale, Wallace, Petvet, TrustH, Relady, Hopetexas, Newcomers, Old times and anyone else I missed.

[color:"red"] (( [/color] [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] [color:"orange"] ))
[/color] That sounds pretty rotten of your H for acting that way. He's trying to shake you up, and it sounds like he's succeeding! Please don't let his behavior get under your skin any more than it already has. I know that's easier said than done. As for the house receipts - are any of them on records such as credit card receipts, equity loan, or LOCs, etc. that you could get past copies from the banking institution? That might be an option.

I'm so sorry you're having so much physical pain on top of the emotional pain that we've all experienced. What do you know about his GF? Maybe you should tell her you're still married - perhaps that would force him to show proof of the divorce to her, and since he can't do that, maybe he'll give up some of his stall tactics. Keep posting and vent here. We all understand.

Deja Vu,

I am so sorry for both the emotional and physical pain in your life. You really are being hit with a double whammy. I am praying for you. Look to God and He will give you the strength you need to get through this.

I wish there was a way for you to get the surgery done soon, so at least you wouldn't be in physical pain. I'm sure that is going to make all of life seem better. It's very hard to have any type of positive outlook when you're in so much pain. I almost wonder if it's worth the potential financial loss. I would be willing to pay a lot of money to not be in pain and to be on the road to recovery.

I'm wishing the best for you. Hang in there and feel free to call if you need a listening ear. A big hug to you.

Hi To Everyone,

You all have been pretty quiet. I hope everyone is doing okay. Things here seem to be settling down somewhat. My H was SO VERY angry but seems to be doing better about accepting things. We've been communicating via e-mail which helps cut down the potential negativity. I do hope we get to the point where we can work together and have as decent a relationship as possible. Right now, emotions are just too high.

Hope you all have a happy weekend!

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I agree with Leah. If you were able to remove the physical pain, it would be a lot easier to have a positive outlook about everything else (or at least make it easier to deal with). I know you said that was a somewhat long process (getting approval for surgery, etc.). How is that working out? I hope this week has been better for you.

[color:"blue"] Wallace, Petvet, Trusting, Relady [/color] - Where have y'all been hiding? If you don't post we're going to start guessing and will make outrageous statements about what's going on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - It's good to see you posting on other threads. You have lots of encouragement and wisdom to share!

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[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] I know you said that was a somewhat long process (getting approval for surgery, etc.). How is that working out? I hope this week has been better for you.

Not good. Today I got a letter from the insurance company rejecting my claim. I can appeal it. Or I can have the surgery they want me to have, that will end my chances to return to my former activities.

Having a very hard time seeing anything positive in this, and an equally hard time believing God is anywhere in this picture at all. One of these days I'll have to open the stuff from my attorney and deal with all my H's threats and demands too... still waiting for all this strength I'm supposed to be getting to deal with it all. NOT!

Nobody is posting much here, and I'm not sure why...maybe we're just all busy with the holidays, or just kind of drifting away from this board. Where is everyone???

[color:"blue"] DejaVu, [/color] you still have an unresolved situation. I'm still around, reading MB, so keep updating as things change for you. Hopefully the others are reading, but just not posting.

Everyone - don't forget, you have been through so much, and because of that, you have a lot to give. I really feel for some of the new posters on MB, they don't seem to have much patience (something we ALL have here!) and some don't even have the desire to work on their marriages. They are ready to give up the second something bad happens. I hope more of us "old timers" can share our experiences and help them through theirs.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Hello Everyone...........

Avondale - I hope all is going well with you. I appreciate what you post, you always have an encouraging message. I had a chance to look back at some old post of mine not realizing how much time has gone by. Where did the years go?

In looking back I noticed that you have prayed for so many here during the time of trial and adversity. In many times the Lord answered and moved in the circumstance. Isn't it still neat today to know that you can pray and the Lord will answer and do what you can't do in your own strength in an impossible situation?

I think what people have forgot these days is that, anyone can pray but God also has these special people who can pray for others and he will answer these request. So this thread is not just about what problems we have or had but how we made or make it through them (Prayer).

I have noticed a lot of new MB posters in the place we once were. I noticed that a lot of them are still in the same house with there spouse (which is a great position to be in based on the circumstances) or separated or once had an affair themselves. My heart goes out them all. They are such precious people full of great possibilities and new things. What I don't see in many cases that concerns me is that whether a BS or in a bad marriage is the willing to soul search themselves and correct maybe the area where they went wrong in the relationship. Many encounter the problem and go looking for the next relationship. Correcting where you went wrong is not saying you're a bad person, but it helps you from repeating the same mistakes to have a healthy and happy relationship.

I'm seeing this coldness in relationships as the years go by. I ponder and ask....Where is the element, my spouse is my best friend? Where is the united vision for purpose in life? Where is our love will never die? Where is the I want to be with you and no other? Where is, my attention is given to you only? We’re in this for life? These are key elements to a long lasting relationship but many are void of these seeking them in someone else.

The greatest joy in life is to serve someone and to be served. Life takes on another meaning when that happens. The core of a relationship is give and take. The illusion you find in affairs is they give the appearance as serving or giving because it feels like you're receiving something, but in reality you have two takers in operation. An affair is like a slot machine. You play the game, its exciting, it feels good, you keep putting more into it than you're getting out and in the end you'll be emotionally bankrupt.

A slot machine or stripper is running a business. They both want your money and they both use one arm to get it.. In return one gives you an false external vision you'll be rich, the other gives you an false internal vision you can have personal lustful happiness. One robs you from obtaining and maintaining external wealth. The other robs you from possessing internal moral character. Where you stare is where you go, what you give your mind to is what you become.

You find many times in an affair people don't have them to go into marriage but it's for another purpose other than what true relationships were made for. In the end comes heartache and brokenness. So many people are lost from there purpose and foundation in life in who they really are.

So where is the place of healing? Where is the lifting of the burden of pain? Where is the stopping or easing of how could this have happened to me?

I find my healing in the Lord Jesus Christ. In Luke 4:18 He said " The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to poor, he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captive, and recovering sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

In all that you find love and care, healing, recovery, restoration, and letting go. The Lord understands exactly where we are. He feels our pain. We forget that he suffered with all of what we feel before we did....

So I know that the Lord wants to heal us and remove the pain, but I also know that he wants to bless us with more of what we lacked so it doesn't happen to us again. When Jesus healed somebody he always told them to be made whole. If he said it then, he is still saying it today. In his word is the fullness of joy and healing!

Take Care

Amen!

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Where you stare is where you go, what you give your mind to is what you become.

I was reading the other day and came across a statement that reflected the same thought, "Where the heart goes the feet will follow." And I guess that there is good and bad there depending upon the choices we make.

We all have the ability to focus, stare follow after something that leads to that destruction or life of emptiness but becuase we have put our full heart into it we somehow convince ourselves that it must be right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I guess there are many who will never know.

I had the opportuinty to be flattered (or prehaps disappointed) the other evening. I received a call from my old neighbor. Her and her husband divorced not long after my former and I. Anyway...after an hour or so of conversation she finally got around to the jest of her call.

(hope everyone is sitting down)

Trusting, would you like to come over to my house and just have sex as friends? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

At first I was flattered and then disappointed as I felt that I must have somehow conveyed to her that this would be acceptable. Either way, I had to say no and explained that my faith and belief system does not allow for casual sex outside of marriage. Geez....how am I suppose to teach my children this if I can's stand behind my own words and values.

She sounded as if she was a bit disappointed but did go on to say that she had to admire and respect me for standing for my beliefs, that were were not many in this day and age who would do that. The conversation turned to why she felt that she needed that feeling of closeness with a member of the opposite sex, why she had lost her faith and into why she was angry at God.

The end result was me trying to explain that if she would approach the throne of God with the same boldness that she had approached me she may be suprised at how good God is at meeting those needs.

So, in a long drawn out way I get back to the same point as EC. There is healing and it is found in God's Word.

Quote

When Jesus healed somebody he always told them to be made whole.

I'll just share what another friend and I were talking about here...

Quote

Luke 17:11 Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy[a]met him. They stood at a distance 13 and called out in a loud voice, "Jesus, Master, have pity on us!"
14 When he saw them, he said, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And as they went, they were cleansed.

15 One of them, when he saw he was healed, came back, praising God in a loud voice. 16 He threw himself at Jesus' feet and thanked him—and he was a Samaritan.

17 Jesus asked, "Were not all ten cleansed? Where are the other nine? 18 Was no one found to return and give praise to God except this foreigner?" 19 Then he said to him, "Rise and go; your faith has made you well."

What happened to the other nine? One was made well, which in the Greek translates to "Whole." The other nine were not it leads us to believe. Did leprosy return to their life later? It says that the ONE was made whole and the others were cleansed. I beleive that the "one" that it mentions was restored in his home and his community, as well as his flesh, while the others were simply healed for a season. All that you can receive from God is tied to your thanks for the little things that you have! We are entering the season of thanks, are you?

God bless you

We are entering into a season of Thanks and I pray that each of us will find a way to be thankful and express our thankfulness to not only Him but to others also.

God Bless
Trusting

Hi Trusting Him

Thats pretty good about the lepers. I guess another way to look at it is. The Lord wants to heal the thing thats eating at you.

That's pretty wild that your old neighbor wants to jump your bones <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I guess she wanted to take you to the old country, dust off the antiques, see the old relics, jump the trampoline <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You kept your dignity thats whats important. Can you imagine what a circus that would bring into your life?

Stay strong the right one will come.

At this time of Thanksgiving, I'm glad to see some uplifting posts here.

I also have to say things have taken another turn for the worst here. My H has gone off the deep end (at the moment I'm not even his main target) and several people including me are afraid of what he will do next. He has taken aim (verbal so far) at several other people both here and in other parts of the country and has been kicked off at least one Internet list as a result. I don't recall if I posted his latest antics with respect to me. But, this is not a rational situation, and I'm not alone in thinking he's either mentally unbalanced or way over the edge of personality disorders at this point.

I'm pleading with my lawyers to do something and soon - I've taken a couple of days off work hoping to be able to devote the time to addressing this (and also my surgery options). Apparently H's attorney is on vacation now - I surely hope this doesn't mean we have to sit around doing nothing in the meantime. I am very concerned that he is racking up bills that will be ruled marital debts, and that he could bankrupt me at this point. To give you an idea of his state of mind, his current byline says that "Champions believe in their dreams when they have only a dream to hang on to, even in the face of criticism and superior achievements by others."

My surgery options are also up in the air, but looking promising. There is a new insurance option that looks like it might work out, but I won't know until I'm on their plan and that will be too late to pursue anything else. So... hanging on by a wing and a prayer, I'm still in waiting mode on most everything.

I have decided to not comply with H's requests for information. He was willing to stall for 5 months (from June until now), and now I have other time commitments of my own. He doesn't have a court order, so I'm not going to deal with it until he does.

Hi Everyone...

I guess everybody jumped ship for the holidays. Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.

Deja Vu - Glad things are starting to move forward for you. Nothing like being stuck in limbo. Stay encouraged good things are ahead.

Me: Lots of good things going on that I can't post but I asure you that when you hang on and believe that you'll make it through the storm, it's just amazing the greater things that come as a blessing that you were not expecting despite all your pain and suffering. You'll look back and say " If I had known that was in my future I wouldn't have cried so much during that time".

Only if we could rejoice when things go wrong, easy to say, hard to do. Only if we could remember that prayer changes the facts and outcome of a circumstance that seems impossible to us.

Keep the Faith!!

Keep the Faith!

So in the proess of keeping the faith and rejoicing when things go wrong...

How many times does one need to see that their children are being neglected before moving forward to storonger tatics to make changes?

I took the children home last night and stopped at the neoghbor's house to say Hi since he was out in the yard. He's as angry as I am at the neglect he sees the children face. In his words..."Your children are being neglected and I do want them to experience the same as my children. In just the last two weeks three different neighbors have stopped here as asked me if those children are always home alone."

So...it's not just me (a disgruntled and angry spouse) that see the actions and effects in the children's lives but the people who actually live there are asking questions.

And the only thing that I feel that stands between my decision to seek custody is that I refuse to admit to myself that their mother has become a person who would choose another man and his children over the intrest of her own. I can say it, write, it down, but when it comes to actually admitting it to myself and doing something to make the necessary changes I find it so hard to move forward in that direction.

A Belated Happy Thanksgiving to Each of You

Trusting Him

I can so understand your heart struggles. Going to court and fighting for my girls was the hardest thing to do but I am so very thankful that I did. I came very close to making a deal with husband out of court. I now see it would not have been in their best interest. God was overseeing the whole situation.

Just keep seeking Him and asking for the wisdom you need to make the best decision re: the children's custody. Only you can make that decision and God knows your heart and what you desire. It seems you truly want what's best for them and only God knows what that is. He will reveal that to you as you seek Him for wisdom and direction. I will pray specifically for you to have God's insight in this situation.

Deja Vu,

I hope to hear good things about your upcoming surgery. That would be wonderful if your new insurance would cover your expenses. I also hope things move in the direction you need them to in regards to your divorce. It can be such an ugly process. I'm right there with you. It seems I get different correspondence from my attorney each day in regards to attempting to get info. from husband. I so much wish this thing could hurry up and be resolved out of court. I hate the process but am trying to be patient. I've been praying for you and will continue to do so.

E.C.

I'm happy that things are going so well for you. You have me wondering if there is someone special in your life....
We'd all love to hear about that if that is the case. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's wonderful to see someone come out on the other side of divorce and seem so content and positive about things!

Avondale,Wallace, Petvet and Relady,

Hope all of you had a wonderful Thanksgiving!

ME

I'm doing well. The girls returned from their trip away with their dad last night. It is great to have them back home.

I'm praying about seeing if H and I can work on an out of court settlement. I'd love to do that but want to act wisely in regard to the finances. I'm not sure it's possible to do that with him and the lack of info. that I currently have. I'm trying to determine if I should settle on what might be less than fair but is adequate just to avoid the current ongoing struggle. Any thoughts?

Hey All,

Sorry it's been so long since I last posted... Myself and my kids just got back in from Seattle to see my Parents, brother, and other family members. Plus, we have been running real short handed at work, so it's been a real whirlwind for the last month.

Wanted to drop in and say Hi to everyone, and hope everyone is doing well.

G/F and I are doing well, and my bathrooms are doing well too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Haven't had a chance to read all the posts... but I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.

I'll be in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Avondale: Yes, you are correct. I have not been posting as much the last couple of months. My computer time is not as great as it use to be. I will make a poin to post more often because I am missing out on some stuff.

Leah: On November 11th, you asked about visitation or vacations, holidays, etc. Normally, each parent get the kids everyother year unless you work out something mutually agreeable. The problem comes when one parent does not hold up to the agreement like mine. The custodial parent cannot force someone to sapend time with their child.

Hopetexas: I recommend reading the Tough Love book initially and moving from there.

Dejavu: You may want to consider stop doing dog shows for a while until your situation and health permits. Look! If your health is declining where you need medical attention, do what you need to do get the health issues resolved. Talk to your attorney. If you can prove your health issues are serious, I don't think any judge would prevent you from using equity from the house or whatever to get your health issues resolved. Another thing. No one, and I mean no one goes through a divorce without being damaged financially and emotionally. That's the reasons we hard tried to save our marriages. It's a b----.

Wallace: Good to hear that you and GF are still kicking.

Me: Well, I think I have a large purchase to make for Christmas.

Later.

Good to everyone posting.

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - I about choked on my oatmeal when I read your pre-Thanksgiving post! I’ve heard about “friends with benefits” and I understand your struggle with “what kind of impression am I giving to people” vs. “where has society gone these days”. It sounds like you handled it VERY well, and in an understanding manner which could bear fruit later!

However, it sounds like you’re not handling your custody situation as well. When we read your posts or hear you voice what’s going on, it’s obviously one-sided. But you have other friends, in addition to this neighbor, who have said similar things (if I recall correctly).

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Trusting said: when it comes to actually admitting it to myself and doing something to make the necessary changes I find it so hard to move forward in that direction.

Perhaps it’s time for you to step out of your shell (yes, that’s what you’re in when it comes to this issue) and either talk to your former to change things, or an attorney. Your kids are not getting younger. Your oldest daughter is at a VERY precarious age, and to be honest, I’m concerned for her on several levels. And I don’t even know her! It’s been over a year ago that you were troubled about her mother’s example - has her mother settled down since then?

[color:"blue"] DejaVu [/color] - If you didn’t live in such a cold climate, I would come visit you in a heartbeat! If you want to consider having your surgery in Hawaii, I will be glad to travel with you and be your hands/feet for a month <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> for free

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I wondered if you got caught in the big Thanksgiving blizzard. You have been missed!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - Please clarify in case someone doesn’t understand. The “settlement” you’re referring to is the financial settlement, not custody settlement, correct? The custody thing was already settled, to your benefit. God is good. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving, my sister-friend.

[color:"blue"] EC[/color] - It’s true - you have such a great gift - to see the positive in what could be discouraging situations. We all go through emotional roller coasters of depression and doubt, but your posts always keep me on track.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - You need to elaborate on this “big gift”! Do you mean big, as in size, or big, as in cost? Do tell us alllllllll about it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Relady [/color] - Are you still here? How’s the online store going? How are YOU doing? Please post an update!

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - I am not looking forward to this holiday. Not sure why exactly. I think the fact that H is with someone here locally has given some minor discouragement. Add to that my kids will be gone for the actual Christmas Eve/Day dates...anyway, I can't seem to get in the spirit of things (yet). I am forcing myself to get some decorations up this week - as a way of not giving in to negativity.

Happy Thanksgiving to everybody!

Yes, I will read the TOUGH LOVE book. I am currently reading YOUR BEST LIFE NOW, it's a very nice book. I read it every night with my mom and it inspires me to believe in restoration and in life is great!

I had not posted for a few days, but all of a sudden things have changed. I really don't know how much they have changed but I have this happy feeling in my heart that husband is "trying". He is very confussed and has been crying and telling everybody that he misses me, misses the love making, misses my perfume, misses misses and misses.

He called me on thanksgiving day wishing me well, and told me he wanted us to talk, I told him it was not worth it, he said IT IS, IT IS, THINGS DID NOT END UP WELL, IT'S BEEN THREE MONTHS SINCE I LAST SAW AND TALKED TO YOU- so I told him ISN'T THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED? - he said NO and told me once again, please let's just talk, please consider it - But don't feel pitty for him, it might sound that he was begging but he wasn't, he just sounded very sad and kind of desperate but with a very firm voice, so any ways I said - I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, FORGET IT, IT'S NOT WORTH IT - so he once again asked and at this point in the conversation I was crying because I could not believe my ears, I was cought cold on his request and his call, so I took a deep breathe and thought (God, you know I want this, it's now or never) so I said - I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT, OK? he said, OK THANK YOU - and I said OK, BYE and so did he in a very sad low voice.

I didn't call. Friday, Saturday, Sunday and finally Monday evening he sends me an e-mail (after asking a mutual friend SHOULD I WRITE, SHOULD I CALL HER? and she just tol him MANNY, I WON'T TELL YOU WHAT TO DO, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT AND IF YOU WANT TO CALL HER CALL HER, I DON'T WANT TO BE BLAMED FOR YOUR DECISIONS- of course he got upset and said OK,FINE THANKS-). So he wrote an e-mail. A very empty one for my taste, it was all about him him him and how confussed he was. You can read it in a seperate post I posted yesterday Nov 28, 2005. Where I say HUSBAND E-MAIL, NEED HELP ON ANSWERING -

I suppose after thinking thru and reading the e-amil I really don't have anything to say, he is not asking or pouring out his feelings, he is just saying what he thinks of this and of his problems. How funny, he has told everybody nice things about me but doesn't say them to me!!!

So I've resolved to not answer what has not been asked. If he really loves me he'll find his way thru.

I tell God what I want and he has provided, it's now my shinning light that shall lead the way back to me.

If someone has any input I would appreciate any behavior that I should have to make him see me dessirable yet I WANT HER. I am already doing the things I want I just want to not make him think I don't want this when I really do, but I don't want to give myself in to quick or too late or not at all.

What do you all think. Any good quotes?

Hopetexas,

I'm excited for you and the turn your husband seems to be making. However, I do caution you to be very careful. I experienced this same type of thing. Later, I would find out that things had gone bad between he and his girlfriend.
He would seem remorseful and like he wanted things back but then he would change again depending on what was taking place between he and the OW.

I think you are wise to not jump to any conclusions. Be open to the idea of restoration but be guarded until you see concrete evidence that he truly wants to reconcile. In hindsight, I wish I was more careful and that I gave the whole situation more time. I was always ready to forgive and jump back into things when I really should have waited. The forgive part is always good to do, it's the actions that follow that need great consideration.

I hope things end happily for you and your husband. That would be wonderful news!!

Avondale,

Thank you for the reminder of the need for clarification. I'm speaking about a financial settlement, not custody. At present time, I have primary physical custody. This is temporary until our final court date. I would not make any financial offer unless H would agree that I would retain primary physical custody, which is most likely to take place in court.

I totally can understand your lack of enthusiasm over the holidays. We have to keep remembering all that we have to be thankful for rather than what we wish was. It can be quite the challenge. It's good you keep fighting the negativity. A positive attitude can make all the difference.

Wallace,

Glad to hear from you. Sounds like life is going well. You and your G/F always seem to bounce back after a close "goodbye".

Petvet,

A big purchase... Wow! Sounds like wedding bells are in the near future. You'll have to let us in on all the great details.

My attorney said Christmas and Easter are usually divided. Do you do that with your son? Both of our families are in town, so I think we might attempt something like that. He would have half the vacation and I'd have half.

Trusting Him,

I've been praying for you and your decision about custody. Avondale's right about the time passing quickly. They do grow up way too fast. Take care.

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[color:"blue"] DejaVu [/color] - If you didn’t live in such a cold climate, I would come visit you in a heartbeat! If you want to consider having your surgery in Hawaii, I will be glad to travel with you and be your hands/feet for a month <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> for free

What a concept! Too bad there aren't more surgeons who do this surgery or that might be an option!

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[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - I am not looking forward to this holiday. Not sure why exactly. I think the fact that H is with someone here locally has given some minor discouragement. Add to that my kids will be gone for the actual Christmas Eve/Day dates...anyway, I can't seem to get in the spirit of things (yet). I am forcing myself to get some decorations up this week - as a way of not giving in to negativity.

I'm sure there are many many people here who feel this way. at least you're decorating anyway. I'm not decorating this year - can't bear to go through the box of X-mas stuff that H "gave" me - not sure I want to see what he thought I should be entitled to.

It's funny - B4 I met him I was really big on X-mas, but in the last 5+ years I hated it.

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Dejavu: You may want to consider stop doing dog shows for a while until your situation and health permits.

That's gonna happen anyway as there aren't any shows now that I'll be at for a few months. I can't run my own dogs right now, and I'm not in charge of any of the trials during the winter.

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If you can prove your health issues are serious, I don't think any judge would prevent you from using equity from the house or whatever to get your health issues resolved.

Proving it is no problem. My lawyer and I spent 4 hours working on this stuff yesterday. He's writing a letter, and we think H and his attorney should be scared, very scared, about the implications right now. And I am scared too - but of what he will do when backed further into his corner. He's burned so many bridges lately (I'm not even the main target right now) that there are none left for him to cross. And you know what they say about cornered animals.

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No one, and I mean no one goes through a divorce without being damaged financially and emotionally.

Except for H. Just ask him. He is incensed that he should have to give up anything - he was supposed to walk away with no change in his lifestyle, except for getting rid of me. He also thinks he's entitled to MY assets that were protected in the prenup, the ones he signed off on 20 years ago, that he agreed he would have no rights to. BTW, the prenup even protects my assets in the case of my death (YEAH TO MY SMART LAWYERS 20 YEARS AGO) - so my house, car and much of what's in the house will NOT go to him even if I die before we are divorced. BTW, my current lawyers are the same ones who did my prenup 20 years ago.

I'm feeling better about my chances now. But still impatient.

I also must apologize to everyone here for not participating like I should be. I'm afraid I'm terribly preoccupied on the one hand, and exhausted physically and mentally the rest of the time.

[color:"blue"] Hope [/color]
I want to caution you a little bit. What you are doing is bordering on being manipulative. You don't want to play so "hard to get" that you are burning bridges behind you that you will need to get across later. At some point, if things continue like you describe, I can guarantee your H will get tired of you being distant and will give up.

I suggest that you tell him you will talk to him but only about what you can both do to improve your marriage. Don't talk about past - but talk about how to build for the future. You need to let him know you are available for talking about this subject (your marriage & future) or he will assume you don't want to talk at all...and leave you in the dust.

Dear Leah2be and Avondale and all the others:

I thank you for your reply and I completely agree with both. Although I am not aware of OW being in the picture, somebody told me it doesn't necessary need to be a Physical relationship but more of a mental one.Before I left I asked and he denied that there was or ever was OW and says that there ISN'T OW in his mind, but if some of you might remember; he treated me like I never thought some one could've had. I was basically thrown and removed out of everything I knew was my life and from his heart quicker than the wink of an eye. Later he used every possible excuse that he could ever think of and so on and so on and so on to justify his behavior.

Now he cries. But as I analyze all his moves it's just to feel "accepted" again. Everybody turned their backs on him and have told him how dumb he is and how abusive he's been with my heart. Now he feels bad. The "OW" was his sister, ok, wait, don't misunderstand me, this means that as soon as his sister arrived he felt strong, then his second sister arrived and they partied like crazy, but everything has an end and his came when his two sisters left after 3 months of vacations. He is now feeling, then remembering and now listening to people. In other words, he feels lonely and bad because of the things he did, but he DOESN'T LOVE ME!!! - he says it clearly with all it's words, he does admit to miss me but nothing else.

So his letter is just saying "I regret .. , I need ..., I want .. , but I can't .., I don't know ... " . There is no SORRY, I MISS YOU or LET'S TALK ABOUT YOU AND ME. I can not hold on to that, I can not allow myself to fall for that. I understand that recovery is gradual but I also know that I don't want to fall for his manipulative ways anymore and this letter is just that: THIS IS ALL I CAN GIVE YOU WHICH IS REALLY NOTHING BUT THAT'S WHO I AM -

Do I want this?? NO
Did I give "JUST THAT"? NO
Do I have more to say? NO
Will I give a second chance" YES
Do I think in revenge? NO!

He needs to improve his acts of appreciation towards this relationship. I am willing to talk to him but not talk thee "friendship talk". A month ago I swollowed my pride and called him to ask him for the last time ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT THIS? LET'S TRY AGAIN, PLEASE, DON'T THROW THIS AWAY - and with the coldest heart he answered -YES, I WANT THIS, IT'S WHAT I WANT - Since that day I decided I could no longer do this to myselve and it was time to let go. What was my surprise??? a week after he starts calling my sister demanding my calls and then he starts crying and then he starts going to my friend's and sobs and says how much he misses me but .. BUT DOESN'T LOVE ME.

I would never finish if I continue but you can not ask and expect a quick reaction after "two" very skinny attempts. I don't want to go running as soon as he snaps his fingers while he's saying I DON'T LOVE HER.

I've said it all, he has a very clear idea of what I want, there is no need for me to tell him what I want after all I've said and DONE (pouring your heart out over and over and over and being rejected and rejected and rejected).

He knows my feelings. My friend told him 12 days ago; SHE DOES NOT WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND, SHE WANTS TO BE YOUR WIFE IF DON'T LOVE HER SHE DOESN'T WANT YOU OR TALK TO YOU.

How hard can this be??????????????? He knows about Marriage Builders but he is so narrow minded that he only believes in him and only him.When one of the Harley's called him for a Monday appointment he called and told me - I DON'T THINK AN HOUR OVER THE PHONE WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING, IT'S TOO MUCH MONEY, IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA, I'LL LOOK ON MY OWN" - he never did, he asked for definite divorce on Wednesday night.

So, now ... what do you think? I think he needs to really think things thru and come back when he is ready to offer a YOU AND ME WORK IT OUT PLAN. It's in his hands if I become DUST or HAPPILY EVER AFTER.

I want to see him standing outside my work place, I want to see flowers I want to see a I'M SORRY FOR WHAT I'VE DONE, LET'S WORK THIS OUT SLOWLY, I WANT TO DATE YOU, I WANT TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE .. BUT AS HUSBAND AND WIFE (not the bullcrap of I want to talk about the future but I need to think things over before I start a new relationship) - Now, that kind of DEMANDS I do want!!! That's spells love to me!!!!

What do you all think?

[color:"blue"] Hope [/color] ,
I had forgotton some of the things you mentioned - so it's good you repeated them. Let me make sure I understand these things about your husband:
1) He is saying he "misses you" but hasn't done ANYTHING specific to work on getting back together
2) He is now saying he will file for divorce

If that's correct, then here's my two cents' worth. You need to continually reinforce to him, with specific words, that you want to work on the marriage, and desire to go to counseling. Say this EVERY time he mentions filing for divorce. Say it in every chat you have with friends and family (especially if he's not talking directly to you). This is making it clear to him what your "first line" of expectations are (restoration of marriage AND counseling). Maybe you are already doing this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now to get personal... You have certain expectations of him, if he wants to get back together (i.e., your last paragraph about flowers, etc.). I think that it is unrealistic to have these expectations AT THIS POINT. Later, yes! But right now, no. Concentrate on the first part and these things (apology, flowers) will come. He could truly be repentant, and not do flowers - does that mean you won't take him back? See what I mean? So don't put him in a box about expected behaviors right off the bat.

As long as your husband is still in the fog (which he is) and eating cake (he misses you but won't work on marriage) then the "courting things" won't occur. And I don't know if he would jump from no contact to flowers/work apology in a single day.

Hi Everybody...

I'm glad to see everyone posting again. Its great to hear from you Petvet.

Wallace - I guess you're in a blizzard

Leah - I'm not dating, so that's not my joy I'm referring to. Just some other things

Deja Vu - The holidays can be a drag at first. I remember wanting to just bury my head in the ground and let it all pass into the new year.

I had to be determined I was going to celebrate Christmas regardless what happened.It was hard at first. For New Years I buy me some shrimp, a bottle of sparkling cider, chill it and look forward to the great new year ahead.

Avondale - I think you keep all of us in line as well. So since everyone is going to be gone, what are your plans?

Hello to everyone!

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] -

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You said: I'm not dating, so that's not my joy I'm referring to. Just some other things

Care to elaborate? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It's OK to brag, too!

Hi all!

Hopetexas: You need to be careful. When you do the tough love, you do not punish positive acts, but bad ones. If your H wants to talk, we do you have to loose? Tough love is designed to bring the WS their senses.

Avondale: You may need to go away for the holidays. I'm serious. Don't spend the holidays by yourself. Check on a cruise or go to Vegas or something.

Dejavu: Get your medical situation cleared up.

Wallace: Blizzard, what blizzard? Do allow that cold weather to shift to the east coast.

Leah: Yes, I have done the goodole half day stuff for Christmas and Thanksgiving. If both of you agree, the courts don't care.

Me: The gift can be small in appearance but large in price especially if you can see through it like glass.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - OK, we get the hint! You're getting engaged over Christmas. That's great! When you set a date, let us know. The girls will want to buy new dresses and of course, we all need to arrange plane tickets to get to the big event! Do you have a plan on "how" to present the ring? Put it in a glass of champagne? Have a waiter serve it to her? Will you get down on one knee? What's your plan?!?!

I guess you will beat [color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] to the altar <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Where is everybody these days? I'll do Christmas colors to get everyone in the mood...

[color:"green"] Wallace [/color]- I am sure you are snowed in somewhere! Are you going to get a "big gift" that "shines" this year for your GF?

[color:"red"]Deja Vu [/color] - Is there any update on your situation? I know going into the holidays having "junk" hang over you is not fun. You are very much in my thoughts.

[color:"green"] Leah [/color] - What is your time arrangement for Christmas with your kids and their dad? I hope there are no conflicts with that.

[color:"red"] EC [/color] - How are you? Any chance of seeing your kids during the holidays? I hope I didn't scare you off with my last post <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"green"] Trusting [/color] - Have you heard any more from the lady who wanted "friends with benefits"?

[color:"red"] Hope [/color] - What's new in your situation?

[color:"green"] Relady [/color] - Are you still reading here? If so, please post!

Hello Everyone!

Avondale - I spoke to my D's. They will not be here for Christmas, but most likely in the summer. I don't know when they'll come, but they have missed out on a lot. I haven't had much time to post lately but will try to do more.

Here lately I've felt I have been in a season of prayer, prayer that moves lifes impossible situations. All I can say is, never give up and judge your future by present circumstances. The blessings of the Lord are great and full of mercy and joy. The kind of joy that springs up within and makes sunshine when the sun is not shinning.

I look back at my storms and even when I didn't want to DV, I had to "Stand Up and Face the Challenge". Many BS's are forced to fight at a time when you just wanted to let it all blow over on its own. The good character built during the standing up makes you a better person.

So my thoughts - Never become bitter at what happened to you, write yourself a mission statement,and keep praying.

Take Care

Hi All!

Just thought I would drop in for a moment.

Thinking about all of you and as soon as my life slows down a bit here... both work and personal... I'll be able to post again. Hopefully it will be soon.

avondale...

I like those Christmas colors!

Hope everyone is doing well... I'll be in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Avondale: I think I am going to pop the question on Saturday night. How? Your guess is better than mine. I thought about poping the question during Midnight Mass,but she would never forgive me. As a matter of fact, I probably would not forgive myself. What are you doing for the holidays? Remember, don't stay home alone.

Wallace: Are you planning any surprises during the holidays?

EC: Are you suppose to get holiday visitation with your kids?

Me: I think about you guys often and be intending on posting, but I have limited computer time, but I have to do better.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Tell us how it went, we're rooting for you! My advice: pop the question prior to a gathering with other people; that way, she can show it off and it will increase her excitement, with others "ooohing and ahhhing" over it. And will certainly make you look good too (although I'm sure you are fine)!

[color:"green"] Merry Christmas to everyone here on the TL thread. May God richly bless you all with his grace and mercy in 2006. [/color]

Hi Everyone!

Well, I'm at work, and I just have a moment, but I wanted to wish everyone a very "Merry Christmas" and a "Happy New Year to all the people on the TL thread, and all the people in MBers!

Sorry I haven't been able to post much... but that should change after the first of the year (I hope).

I haven't had a chance to read any posts... except Petvets! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Petvet...

So your going to go for it?

Glad to hear that you and Buddy are going to take the big step. avondale gave you some good advice... I do think it would be a good idea, to do it, just exactly as she stated.

Well... I hope the Lord blesses everyone during this Holiday season... and I pray that all of your dreams come true.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Wallace

ps: I would have ended with my usual "Stay strong!", but I thought this would be better.

I'll be in touch!

Hello Everyone........

Just dropping a line hello. Not much going on right now besides passing through Christmas.

Petvet - Oh boy, you're going to pop the question! Best wishes in your relationship. It must be nice to be with someone you love. As far as my YD and OD visitation, they're 20 and 22 now, we're past the visitation issue. They can come and go when they want.

Me: I recently spoke with exw on the phone after I spoke with my kids. She was telling me about her brother being cheated on by his wife 3 times in 3 years. She said she advised her brother, (get this), ok if she does it once, try to work it out. If she does it twice, leave her because she's not stopping. My mouth dropped on the phone because she was giving him the advise of what I went through with her. In essence she told me I did the right thing by leaving her after #3-5.

Anyway our conversation was peaceful, we're two worlds apart now. She would mention OM sometimes if she went here or there. At times I felt something rising up in me to blast her about him when she mentioned him, but then I had to remember she's cheating on him also, why bother. I just blessed her and wished her a happy day. There relationship has dwindled.

What I'm learning after dv...You can talk to your ex all you want and even be civil friends, but if they don't think they did much damage to you, you'll only get injured all over again. They may know they hurt you, but not how much. You have to set boundries with them in your conversations, as with any person. They can't have the access to your heart as they once did. You may have a love for them, but it's a past love of how things used to be. They're not there anymore. So don't live in the past and let life go zipping by. There's somebody out there that will love you greatly when the time comes.

While many WS's get restored from the affairs, there's many that don't. While many WS's recover and get back to a peaceful life, many have a warped sense of purity in relationships. A restored marriage is great when the WS seeks to be restored as a person, then the marriage, otherwise don't waste your time.

Thats all folks! See ya

Merry Christmas to all. May your day be full of joy and happiness.

Stay encouraged!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi all! I hope everyone had a nice Christmas.

Avondale: Oh NOOOOOOOO! You don't know me very well. When it comes to crowds, I hide under rocks and closets. I would never pull a marriage proposal stunt in public. Case in point, a week a half ago, son and I were eating in a Olive Garden Restaurant, there was this couple setting across from us, I noticed that the guy kept getting up and leaving. At first, I thought the guy may have drank too much tea or something. Each time he returned, he would bring back a small gift. Well, after one of his departures, he gets on one of his knees beside the table and presents a ring to the lady. She was floored. I could never pull that stunt off wothout having a nervous breakdown. I'll tell you my story later. I hope you are on some island somewhere enjoying yourself.

Wallace: We all need to stay strong when it comes to our relationships.

EC: You are correct with your assessment of the WS. The reason your ex gave the advice is she knows the in result of cheating. She knew it while she wasc doing it herself, but it does not matter when everything centers around yourself. I agree with your statement concerning interacting with ex's. You do have to treat them with a grain of salt (if that!)

Me: I asked Buddy to marry me Christmas morning. She was shocked. Oh, she did say yes. I thought about doing it during midnight mass, but I would not be so bold. Besides, I would have looked like a donkey if she said no. Funny thing though, my parents are not happy. My mom flat out said that she does not think I should be getting married. I will say that this was not a surprise to me and Buddy. We have to move forward regardless. PS. Father has never met Buddy. Yet, he does not think we should be an item.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Congratulations! But I didn't mean pop the question in front of people, I meant ask her in private, but do it prior to a group gathering. Then she can show it off to everyone!

What are the reasons your mom gives for not wanting you to get married? Are they reasons that any mother would give their son/daughter? Do you think she was talking to your dad, and that's how he formed his opinion without meeting Buddy? Aren't adult parents fickled?

How was everyone else's Christmas?

Hi everyone,

Petvet - Congratulations! I'm glad to hear you and Buddy are moving forward. Sorry about your parents... don't let them rain on your parade!

Sorry I haven't been around much. Things have been rough here, and busy as well.

I leave in a week for my surgery - out of state. Finally got the insurance approval so I'm set. I don't know how long I'll be out of touch but for at least 2 more weeks after the surgery, I'm guessing. I will recoup at my folks for a few days before coming home.

My lawyer presumably is telling my H's lawyer that since they couldn't get their act together all fall, they're out of luck now. I'm not available and will not be addressing their demands for additional paperwork. Too bad, so sad, he can either settle things without it, or wait for 3-4 more months. Oh yes, and pay spousal maintenance while I recoup.

I'm trying real hard to keep my chin up and not let the long confined winter get me down.

I'm thinking good thoughts for all of you too - and I'll check back in when I'm home again.

Take care everyone!

Petvet,

Congratulations!! It's so great to see how much your life has improved since I first started reading your thread years ago. You were busily consulting with REM - Do you remember her? I'm so happy for you and encouraged to see your happy ending or beginning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Belated Merry Christmas Wishes to Everyone,

I'm still reading here even though I don't post much. I hope each of you enjoyed a wonderful Christmas. I'm hanging in there.

Much continues to happen. Unfortunately, the battle is not finished. My husband has appealed the judges decision and we're headed back to court. He will not let this go easily. It can be so very exhausting.

I'm trying to remain positive and strong in the Lord. He knows all and I'm going to keep trusting Him with all that I don't understand.

Deja Vu,

I wrote you an e-mail last week. I will be praying for you and your upcoming surgery. I hope all goes well.

Avondale,

How did your Christmas go? Did you stay home or go away? Thanks again for your Christmas gift giving advise. It was helpful.

E.C,

I always enjoy reading your posts. You post some thought provoking things. Thanks for sharing and encouraging.

Wallace,

How did Christmas go with your G/F? Was she hoping for the same gift as Buddy? I hope you enjoyed your time with your family.

Relady and Trusting Him ,

I'm not sure if you're still reading here. If so, I hope you are both doing well. I miss hearing from you. Please post when you can.

Happy New Year to you All - Wishing each of you God's peace, joy and love!!

Hi all!

Avondale: I understand now. What did you do for Christmas? I know you have great plans for this evening. At least, I hope you do.

DeJavu: I hope your surgery goes well. Don't even think about the D. You need to take care of yourself.

Leah: I know things are tough. You must hang tough.

DeJavu and Leah: REMEMBER, this dark cloud will pass. Hunker down for the rough ride. During this time, do alot of reflection and self evaluation. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Tough times don't last but tough people do.

Me: Mom has been soo negative about my engagement. I know my marriage will be stressed by the outside forces: namely baby's momma and others, but I have to stay positive and remain spiritually strong with Buddy.

Everyone, have a happy and joyous New Year!

Later!

Petvet,

Thanks for the encouraging words. Sorry your mom is having a difficult time with the engagement. Does she give you any reasons for being against your marriage? I know how much this hurts. My mom was against my marriage to H. In fact I didn't know if she would even come to our wedding. She did and was very supportive after the fact but she sure made it difficult right up to the day.

How did your mom feel about your first marriage? I hope and pray you can gain her support soon. I'm sure that would mean a lot to both Buddy and you. Hang in there.

Hi All!

I hope everyone had a very nice "New Year", and Petvet you started out the year with a bang.

So when is the wedding day?

DejaVu...

Hope your surgery and your recovery goes well. As weas stated, there is light at the end of the tunnel. But why does the tunnel have to be so long? It gets better as time goes on, I know it's been said many times on these boards... but it truly does.

Leah...

Hang in there... it's been a long road that you have been on.

How much longer do you think you will have to keep coming and going on this custody issue?

avondale...

Well I guess your next to get engaged! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How have you been doing?

Did you have an enjoyable Christmas and New Year?

EC...

How did you make out as well during the Holidays?

Did you get to see your kids, or did you hear from them?

I had to laugh at your comment about your ex-wife.

Me...

I had a very nice Christmas and New Year.

Speaking of getting married... the axe dropped on my end. It's either I get married to my G/F by the end of the year or it's over.

So... it's going to get interesting, as we both agreed to not getting married until all the kids were out of both houses, which they are not.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hey All,

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and New Year. I don't get to post much any more, so when I'm thinking about it, I have to do it at that moment! Need to increase my dosage of 'kinko.' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Petvet Congratulations, so when is the date? I haven't even started dating yet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Avondale : How are you? Is your 'X' still living near you and do you run into him much?

Wallace : If you are both waiting for the children to leave, and hey are still there, why does it keep coming up?

Leah2be : Hang in there, it will all soon be behind you soon. We've all been there.

Hope everyone else is well. I'm going to make an appointment with myself to post more.

relady

I'm still reading here every day, but with people posting less frequently there doesn't seem to be much going on.

[color:"blue"] Relady [/color] - it's GREAT to hear from you. I'm also not in the dating pool...and don't plan to be anytime soon. Maybe never. I'm very OK with my life right now, although I will admit sometimes it gets a little bit lonely. I need to be more proactive with calling up my friends.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - It's good to hear from you, too. Is anything new with you? Has your ExH made any more progress on getting his financial things together? Where does all that stand?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - Relady is right, we've all heard that before! So will you be caving into your GF's wishes? We'd love to visit Colorado in the summer time for your wedding! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Do you have a date set? Have things settled down with your parents? What are their objections? Are they comparing Buddy with your ExW?

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - Where have you been? Are you still taking classes?

[color:"blue"]Trusting [/color] - I'm glad you got to have your kids more than expected over the holidays. How are things going with your oldest daughter? I ask about her because of the age she is - I'm sure life is interesting for you!

UPDATE on [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - She wrote that her surgery generally went well, although there were a few post-surgical complications (such as fever) that kept her in the hospital longer than expected. She hopes to move back to her house sometime this week. She is still on strong medication which blurs her vision and makes her queasy, so please keep her in your prayers for a full and speedy recovery.

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - Not much new. Hubby called daughter over Christmas to tell her he's getting married to someone he's dated for less than 6 months. Took me totally by surprise, but I'm OK about it. What can ya do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Hi All,

relady...

Good to hear from you.

I don't know about you, but it seems like there is no time for hardly anything anymore. My time is always filled up with something to to... and there is no end in sight.

Business must be good,, as it appears you don't have anytime either.

Good to hear from you, and I'm like you... I need to post more often, it helps keep me grounded.

avondale...

Thanks for the update on DejaVu, hopefully she will come through it with out any further complications. Pryaers for her... she has had a tough time here lately.

As far as my wedding date... I think we need to make plans for Petvet's wedding date, as I think he will probably beat me to the alter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So your exH is getting "M"?

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all,

It seems alot of folks have down time today.

Relady: It was nice to hear from you. Stay in touch with us more often.

Leah: I hope all is going well under the circumstances. Stay strong.

Wallace: Oh no! You will beat me to the altar. I will explain later.

Avondale: I like how you eased into the annoucement about your ex by saying "Not much new". I know you must have fallen out all over the floor laughing after you heard the news about your ex, or knowing you, you probably just shook your head in pity for his new bride to be. Whatever happened to the the "Song Queen" he was dating while you were married? He is still searching for something; unfortunately, he has to look in the mirror at himself before he finds happiness anywhere else.

Me: No date has been set. Buddy unloaded a bomb on me by telling me that she cannot get "m" until she gets a certain age because she will loose retirement benefits from her deceased husband's company. In addition, she unloaded two more bombs on me after the first. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper. I know you are asking the same question I asked. After three years of dating, why am I just hearing about these secrets? Two of the secrets should have been told to me, but the third I can understand why she kept it confidential. So back to Wallace's asertion that I will beat him to the altar. We will see. She hits the magical age next year, so we will see what happens.

Later.

Hey All,

Petvet...

All I can say is, "Ouch"!

I have to agree with you... holding onto secrets after three years, and dropping them on you like that. That would send a red flag up for me.

I look at it like this... I don't see what the hurry is from my end. I'm perfectly fine just as everything is.

Hopefully that's the case for you as well, but if not, I would begin looking at everthing very carefully, as I'm sure you don't want to end up back in the soup again.

I'm really taking a hard look at my relationship, and I'm not sure if I'm going to follow through with the whole marriage thing again. Plus, I don't like to be pressured to do anything when it comes to relationships. I grew out of that from my last marriage.

avondale...

I noticed that the WS, usually is the first one to get "M" again.

Not sure why that is... maybe they are insecure with themsleves and need that positive reinforcement to confirm their actions.

Nothing the WS does surprises me any longer.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Petvet[/color] - I think keeping secrets of THAT nature (age of marriage/retirement benefits) are more than just red flags! That's a VERY serious thing. Are any of those bombs reasons why your parents expressed concern for the marriage? Maybe they have a point; we all know how easy it is to see red flags when you're not the one in that situation. Keep us posted!

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - To explain a bit further...this woman that ExH says he will marry is NOT the OW he knows through his music studies. I don't know how they met; he wrote me an email in the fall saying he was 'dating someone seriously' (i.e., he moved into her house). Plus, he dropped this M bomb by telling our daughter on the phone. She has met his wife-to-be one time, even though we all live in the same town. It has been difficult for our kids, and I noticed that over the holidays even my somewhat-hardened son was much more caring of me (because I realized that he met her at H's parent's Christmas party, which I no longer attend -obviously!)

Anyway, this was all a dose of reality for me, and did seem to make things a little more final. I know you all (especially Petvet) have been thinking I'm holding on too much. Well, this helped with a little more emotional separation. I'm OK with it.

avondale...

I'm sure that was a pretty big blow to everyone.

My kids, are not that youg anymore, and when they found out their Mom went out a got married less than a year of the "D", it pretty much sealed the whole thing shut for all that was concerned.

It does catch you off guard, when you first hear about it make no mistake about that.

I remeber that there wasn't a day that didn't go by that I didn't think about my exW.

I still think about her from time to time... not that I'm pining for her or anything. I just wonder how her life really turned out, and was it all really worth all the devestation she left in her wake.

Hopefully for her sake it was all worth it, as I know as time goes on... she will eventually end up an lonely, lonely person.

IMO... when you lose your family... you lose it all!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi All..........

Avondale [color:"brown"] [/color] - My Heart goes out to you. I know it's heart breaking. Despite you may be divorced the emotional feeling of all the years spent together don't disappear that easily. It still feels like a slap in the face. Don't feel down though because in time it's gonna all blow over.

In Psalms 23 it say "He restoreth my soul". That means if we allow the Lord to work out the pain and heartache, you will recover all that has been lost. He will continually pour in the healing oil of his love and remove all the bruises. [color:"green"] [/color]

I'm still doing the school thing. I'm getting ready to start the Bachelors level. One thing I've learned that has really touched me is that the Lord loves us so much and when we hurt, he hurts. He constantly holds us in his arms, embracing us with his unchanging love.

Wallace [color:"brown"] [/color] - My kids didn't come this year. I havn't spoke with them lately. They come and go. I feel like a yo yo at times, they reel me in, then reel me out. Other than that I stand with open arms. The end of 2005 was down time emotionally. In 2004 I was on the mountain top. I think it happened because I had to give a company my old DV papers and had look at everything in the box. That emotionally drained me as I had to relive it all. I wanted to burn the box after that. What a mess that was.

Hope everybody is doing ok..Relady, Petvet, Leah, TRH, Deja Vu and anyone I missed.

"Special People "gathered for a "Special Purpose "and enjoying the love and care at a "Special Moment" [color:"blue"] [/color]

Petvet,

Three secrets... that had to be a shocker! Please be careful. We want you to be happy. Truth is such a huge issue with all of us. I hope you and Buddy can work things out.

Could you read my scenario below. With your accountant background, I would love your input.

Wallace,

Hi there! It will be interesting to see how the saga ends. Will he or won't he??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Well, I guess you have almost a year to decide.

Avondale,

I'm glad to know you're handling the news of your ex-H okay. I'm sure that would take awhile to work through. I know it would for me. I'm glad your kids are there for you.

Deja Vu,

Glad to hear you got through surgery okay. I've been praying for you. I hope this year is one that will bring hope and healing for you.

Relady,

So great to hear from you!! You sound as perky as always. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hope business and personal life are going well for you. Please drop in more often. We always love hearing from you!

E.C. and Trusting,

Hope both of you are doing well. Drop us a line when you can.

Me,

The battle continues. I'm SO ready for this to be over but it doesn't look like it's ending any time soon. H has appealed the judges decision and that was just the pende lente hearing.

As far as revealing any of his financial info, we have a long way to go. Attorney sent him a twenty one page financial disclosure and has not received a response yet. He was suppose to return the info. within three weeks. That has been over three months ago. He did give her his tax forms but that is all.

I keep wondering how necessary is all of this? Does one really have to have all the cards on the table to successfully divorce? I'm so exhausted with the process that I'm half ready to just settle for whatever BUT I guess I shouldn't do that yet. I just so desparately want peace in my life but if I did settle, would the fight end??? Any thoughts?? Thanks for any input. Take care.

Hi All,

EC...

Sorry to hear that your kids have been in and out of your life.

Do you think your exW is playing a part still in having you look like the bad guy in all this?

Hopefully in time, as they grow older... you can have a nice long heart to heart with them, and lay all the cards out on the table for them to set the record straight.

I know how depressing it can be with having to dredge up all the old "D" papers. I had to do that as well when I had to deal with the IRS over her not reporting all her income in the last year of our marriage... not a happy time to say the least.

Hopefully the 2006 year will be a better year for you. I'm sure there will be bumps along the way... but hopefully the will start smoothing out over time.

Leah...

During my "D", my exW submitted nothing, so we moved forward with the divorce without any of her information, and I just submitted past pay stubs and other associated items to my attorney and moved forward with the "D".

I didn't want anything from my exW but the divorce, but I wasn't going to give my exW anymore than I already had.

You might ask your attorney about moving forward without the info, if you feel you don't need it, or you can supply it from your end.

I know in my State that if you don't meet the deadlines imposed by the Courts... the Courts will move forward and it sometimes goes against them in some Court cases... and the Judge has to rely on the info you submit.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]PetVet [/color]

Much like Wallace...Ouch! And this after three years of dating. I guess the bright side is that the age is only a year away.

I would be on the cautious side...but that's just me. I think with the next one (if there is ever a next) I would hate to be blind-sided like that after dating so long. But I've learned that secrets are not good for relationships. At least not in mine anyway.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color]

A good question was posed earlier...if the two of you had already agreed tht there would be no marriage until all the children were out...why does this thing about marriage keep coming up?

[color:"blue"] Leah2be [/color]

Does it ever end? I sometimes wonder...me and the former have been divorced for over..Hmmmmm...Wow...almost 2 1/2 years now. Gosh, does time fly. She is as angry today as she was during the divorce. There have been several conversations about what I would deem critical i the children's lives and she is always defensive. Hears only what she wants to hear and does only what she wants to do.

The sad part of that is that although the children love her as a Mother when you really listen to them you can detect an underlying resentment and anger toward her. But tht is only something that she can change...and if she chooses not to...only she will suffer the effects of that.

[color:"blue"] Avondale [/color]

Marraige? Already? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Well, as much as I hate to admit it I think my former is trying her best to arrange hers. Only problem being that it appears that the boyfriend is not quite as hip on that idea as she is.

My heart goes out to you as I know how I would feel (even knowing in advance that it quite likely will happen) whne that news is broken to me. Heck...I know how I felt when the YD first mentioned that she might have a step-daddy. A huge sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and heart.

But, like EC says, The Lord restores our souls and leads us into the paths of righteousness. Let Him lead and we will all be OK.

[color:"blue"] Me [/color]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I had a GREAT Christmas and New Years. The YD and I threw a New Years Eve party and had a wonderful time preparing for it. Funny thing was that no men showed up (I guess they all had other plans) so YD and I entertained a large group of songle women all evening.

On a different subject, I was stopped by a neighbor in the former wife's neighborhood. He was concerned about the amount of time that the children were home alone. In a nutshell he just said that the former wife was never there in the evenings. I pretty much knew that as the children have said the same thing for many months now.

Anyway, I very cautiously approached the subject with the former wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Can you say that was the wrong thing to do. She was livid, angry, screaming, shouting. Long story short, it resolved nothing, well, I have to take that back as she has been spending more time at home since that conversation so I guess it did have some affect.

But...four days later I became unemployed. Ouch! But I was suprised at her reaction to that. My concern was the insurance coverage for the children. I explained that I had enough in savings to live for about four months and continue to pay the current child support if she could pick the children up on her insurance. SHOCKED! As she agreed and actually expressed a little compassion about the matter.The first in a very long, long time.

So, here I am looking for a job.

Oh! Avondale...you asked about the OD. She's had her first real boyfriend this year. But they parted ways just last Saturday. He said it was a temporary thing as he had to study for his exit exams for graduation this year. Funny thing was at school Monday he was wlaking down the hall holding hands with another girl. Poor daughter was all upset and called me to see if I would come and pick her up. Which I promtly did. Oh! And she caled me Sunday morning wanting to know if I would come and get her too, wanted to get away from her house.

So...I would venture to say that she and I have a pretty good relationship. We cried together most of the day Sunday as she told me about her breakup and I just listened to her and held her. Mom? At the boyfriend's house.

Hi Trusting,

It's so good to hear from you. I will be keeping you in my prayers in regards to your employment. Was that totally unexpected or did you know that was coming? It's glad you have enough money saved up for the next few months. Hopefully, you'll have a new job by then.

It sounds as if you and your daughter have such a close relationship. That is wonderful that she can look to you that way! That is a huge blessing.

I'm curious... Are you and your former very flexible about your custody-visitation agreement? Please read on and I'll explain why I ask. I'd love your input. God bless.

Hi Avondale, Petvet, Wallace, Deja Vu, EC, Relady and Everyone Else,

Hope you are all doing fine. My current dilema... I try to be flexible with giving H extra time with girls and swaping days and such. But in response to that he is often disrespectful and demeaning of me in front of the girls.
He will put them in the middle with request in front of them and then become negative if things don't go his way.

Does this sound reasonable?.... I'm thinking of telling him that if he continues this type of behavior, we are just going to go with the judges order. Anyone have any experience with this or sugestions of how to help get the girls out of the middle? H will often tell him of his fun plans before asking me for extra time, then I become the "bad guy" if I say no.

Hope you all have a good rest of the week. Thanks in advance for any sugestions.

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - Wow, you've gone through a lot since your last post! I'm very very thankful that your former was cooperative about insurance. I hope you find a job soon, and will keep that in my prayers.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - Your H is being uncivil....which is NOT reasonable. He's continuing to control you because you allow it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know you feel you're walking a fine line with him, though. Are you making notes of the days/times and substance of his comments? That would certainly be another thing to help substantiate his behavior if need be. Start by reminding him that you're allowing him flexibility. Tell him if he can't be nice (especially in front of the girls) then you will only adhere to the court order, and there will be NO more warnings. Tough Love, Leah!

Hi everyone, I'm back!

I have missed most of the discussions over the past several weeks so am a bit behind on what is happening with all of you.

ME: My surgery went well - in fact the dr's head nurse called me the other day, and said I seemed to be about 2 weeks ahead of schedule and I could start driving! Yikes! I'm only 4 weeks post-op today... and my right leg is not strong enough to have to hit the brakes suddenly, so I'm going to pass on that for now.

I stayed with my folks for almost 2 weeks - a week longer than planned. My dad drove me down to IL where I had my surgery and stayed there with me, plus all my folks did for me - it was the least I could do to stay until my dad could get his new high speed Internet and wireless network installed. He hasn't a clue about this stuff, and there isn't much I can do for them. Actually it was good that I did this, as once I came home I was strong enough to deal with my dogs, up and down 2 flights of stairs 5x a day, and even able to shower alone without fear of falling.

I have not been online much. The many drugs I'm on have affected my ability to stay awake as well as causing blurred vision and dizziness. Up until very recently I was sleeping 12-15 hours a day, and just vegging out on the couch watching TV (reading was too hard on my eyes). But, I'm now able to get up by 9:00 AM or so, and stay awake all day until bedtime. This is a big improvement.

I've sent an e-mail to my lawyer to tell him I'm back. Haven't heard back yet. I've had lots of time to think about this, and am going to ask some tough questions of him now. I'm not sure what I've been paying all the big $$ for, quite frankly.

There have been changes in my H's life that I learned about in the last couple of days. It appears he's severing ties with a few more things and am not sure if that's good or bad. I have to admit to mixed feelings as the realization hits me that he's really going to be out of my life. I know I couldn't go back, but somehow I'm guessing that I haven't dealt with some aspects of this yet.

I started back on AD's yesterday, I'm sure hoping to get my own attitude re-adjusted soon! Hard to be a shut in, still am vascillating between boredom, loneliness, and the desire to be alone and left alone!

Anyway, I hope this finds the rest of you in good spirits -- I'll gradually try to get caught up on what's been going on with all of you.

Hi all! I'm sorry for not getting back sooner.

Leah: I would ask your H for 2005 tax return. If he has not completed his return, I would asked for W-2's and 1099's. I would compare those items to the past three years returns. Many times when folks know they might have to payout funds for child support etc., they try to reduce their income and sell assets like stocks etc. Instead of filing his tax return timely, your H just might file an extension which would push his deadline to August. Also, have your attorney to make a motion to the judge or have your attorney to send a letter to his attorney requesting that all negative comments from H to your kids about you stop immediately, but more than likely the comments will continue behind your back, but at least you will have something in writing.

Wallace: Yeah, I guess one has to be careful about the marriage thing.

Avondale: I'm not surprise that you former is getting M, WS are always looking for love in the wrong places. Regardless of how many women he decides to be involve with, he still has to work on himself. WS don't think they have any problems.

Trusting: One option for you is to see whether you can become self employed. Look at your strengths to decide whether you have skills that can earn you money independently.

DeJaVu: I'm glad you are doing better. Coincedence, I am doing a dog show this weekend. You are not missing much; it's the same ol' politics.

Me: Thanks for your comments on the secrets. Yes, the secrets concern me. She knows that she was wrong. She told me that if she had known that I was going to ask her to marry me, she would have told me one of the secrets. She said that she was caught totally off guard by my proposal. I've told her that there was NO EXCUSE for the age secret. When we first started dating, she was very conscious about the age difference (she is older than I am). She told me that she never expected to fall in love with me. She thought we would go out one or two times and that would be it, but one thing led to another and here we are. She just became comfortable with our age difference within the past year or so. The age difference never bothered me, but I guess I'm not a women, so I figured women are sensitive about age. I grant you that she does not look her age. I have to say that she did forwarn me that she had something to tell me about her family that she would tell me after we were engaged. Only a couple of folks knew this secret. After she told me about the family secret several months ago, I pretty much had figured out what it was. She apologized greatly for the secrets, and I forgave her, but until recenlt, I was pretty HOT about the matter and kept beating her over the head about it. I decided to let it go because I did forgive her, but my antenna is working overtime now. I am looking and watching for similar things from her. My eyes are wide open. I AM NOT BLINDED. My parents issue has something to do with they don't want me to be with anyone because no one is good enough for me. Buddy offered to return my ring to me because she felt she had damage my trust in her. I told her that if I accepted her offer, I would not ask her again, so we are cruising along. We even set a date. I'll let you know later.

Later.

Hey All!

Petvet...

So you have a date set?

Drum roll please... and the date "IS"?

Glad to hear that you were able to get past that... and I'm also glad to hear that your keeping your eyes open.

Has anyone read, Finding the Perfect Mate?

Friend of mine let me borrow it the other day, and I got through the first chapter, and it seems to be a pretty good read.

Deja VU...

Glad to hear that your back and doing better.
Thankfully you had your Parents with you through the whole process... I'm sure that helped you a great deal.

How long do you have to go, until your pretty well recovered from the whole ordeal?

I may have to go in for surgery next month... but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I have to much going on to stop and spend time in the hospital.

Your attorney sounds like my G/F's attorney that she used during her "D". Her attorney was not good, and she is still trying to wrap up all the issues that were not dealt with at the time of the "D".

If you feel your attorney isn't working for you in your best interests... then they probably are not. You may want to dump your attorney and get yourself a good one.

avondale...

Anything else new in regards to your exH and his getting remarried?

I wouldn't let it work you to much... it's not worth the time.

Leah...

Petvet and avondale came up with some good advice.

"Tough Love" for him if he doesn't straighten out.

In regards to you husbands non-compliance in regards to submitting his records to the Court in a timely manner.

You should be able to pull up Joint returns on you own, and submit those to the Courts, or have your attorney file a motion to the Judge for contempt.

Trusting Him...

As avondale stated you have had a lot transpire since your last posts.

I'm sorry to hear that your looking for a new job. Hopefully you will land something that is even better than before.

To answer the question concerning why does the marriage issue between myself and my G/F keep coming up after we agreed that we would wait until all the kids were out of the house is as follows.

We have been engaged for almost 3 years now.

We originally had agreed on getting married 2 years ago on September the 12th.

Approximately one month prior to that agreed upon date, she decided to hold off and not mix the two families.

After a lot of long discussions with her on this issue... I agreed that it would be best to wait until all the kids were out of both households.

Since then... she has tried numerous times to find a way around it. I'm still standing on the no kids aspect of it, and I'm probably not going to budge, which is making her upset at certain points in time.

She has recently stated, that we have been engaged for long enough, and if we don't get married soon, then she is going to break up with me.

My stance is... if she wants to break up with me... then she can. But I'm not going to mix the two families... and that is where it stands as I write this.

EC... and relady...

Hope you two and anyone else that I have missed are doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Well All!

The time has come to say goodbye to the "Tough Love" thread.

It has been almost what, four years since I first posted on this thread?

Thanks to all of you for being there, I will not forget any of you.

I hope everyone's dreams and wishes come true for all of you.

Stay Strong and may God bless you all !

Wallace

I have been sensing the same thing...maybe it's time to close this thread. But I've felt bad about suggesting it since [color:"blue"] Leah [/color] and [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] are still in the middle of their "wonderfulness" (<--a [color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] term). I guess everyone just has other things going on, which is certainly understandable. I certainly don't want to keep this thread going if there isn't group interest. And lately nothing much is going on.

Everyone has my email address, and I would welcome any correspondence or updates that way, for anyone who is interested. [color:"red"] I can't thank you all enough for the strength and encouragement you've been to me over the last 4 years. [/color]

Wallace, you'd better send me an invite to your wedding! You too, [color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] !

Hello everyone! Its been a year since I have been on this thread and now that I found it again, the thread is closing =( Well hopefully you will come one last time before you go.

When I came on this board a year ago I was lost and desperately trying to work on my failing marriage. My XH ran off with OW he met on the internet. I was left behind with our 2 kids and tried to pretend it didn't happen that he was coming home to stay. I read the marriage building books and came to this board for support. I was needy and you all were there to help every step of the way.

It was the worst time of my life. I didn't have many family or friends around to turn to, so I came here. You guys did not leave me for one second. You listened and offered advice. I read all your posts about your own situations and felt the familiarity of how we all felt.

I just wanted to say thanks. Thank you to all the wonderful people on this thread. The questions, advice and concerns helped me so much through my healing process. Expecially Wallace and Avondale25.

Now a year later, I am doing just fine. Even though I did not reconcile with my XH, I feel the marriage building books, steps, plan A & B, NC ect. are the way to go. They lead you through a healthy recovery.

I am happy to report, that the kids and I moved closer to my family. They are recovering nicely and doing better in school. They have chosen NC with XH (but I have strongly urged them to keep an open mind for the future) As for me, after starting dating again 6 months ago, I have met someone very special. We have been seeing each other exclusively for 3 months now and have just introduced each other to our kids 2 weeks ago.(he is D 3 years and has 2 kids) Its very exciting and I cant wait to see what the future holds!!

Thanks again to all on this thread and your wonderful support!

Hi all!

After I started this thread four years ago, I thought the thread would be a place for folks to go to discuss their marital issues even after I was not around. I do not want to leave some folks just hanging out there without anyway to communicate. I grant you that I have not posted as much as I should, but my time is limited as a single parent, and I do not dare post on my job or clients site, so I do not have the flexibility as I once had, but that does not mean that other folks cannot use the thread if they so desire. To Avondale, Wallace, TC, DejaVu, and the many other folks who have shared their lives with this thread, God bless you.

PS, Wedding is September 2007.

Later.

Hi All,

There's part of me that wants to yell, "Come back, come back, please don't leave." But I understand that it's been a long time for some of you. You all are rebuilding your lives and moving forward as you should.

Can we make it a "see you" or "later"? (In the words of our thread originator) Even if you're not able to post often, it would be great if you could check in two or three times a year. I'd love to know how all your stories end, or rather continue...

Anyhow, to all of you who are leaving, THANK YOU a thousand times over. You have been wonderful and I will miss you greatly.

The process continues. But, I am growing into a much stronger lady through the process. I've learned so much and am thankful for the person I'm becoming. It's been a long, tough road but I am trusting God for a happier future. THANK YOU again for all your help along the way. This "Tough Love" thread was just what I needed.

God bless each of you with all that is found in Him... His peace, joy and love!!

[color:"blue"] Stacy [/color] - It's great to hear from you, and I'm glad that you've continued to grow as a single parent. Your kind words were very much appreciated.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - September 2007, huh? That's a long time from now (it seems). Was this timeline your idea or Buddy's? Is it based on other things (ie, job, kids ages, etc.)? Have your parents softened any to this? I hope so. You've been very stoic since you've began this thread. I wish you the best!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I like your idea of "see you later". I didn't mean to imply I was not going to be here, I still check this thread almost every day. But if no one is posting, I didn't want everyone to think I wasn't interested in being a support to them...this is why I posted my email. I hope you and anyone else will continue to keep in touch with me online or by phone whenever you want, even if this thread doesn't see a lot of activity.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] - How is your recovery coming along? Are you walking unaided yet? And is there anything new with your "D"?

[color:"red"] Who else is still lurking here? [/color] Hello to you, too!

Hi all!

Leah: I will still lurk around if you need to vent. With my son and everything, I cannot post as much as I would like. Going through this process does make you stronger. As I have said before, you have to weather the storm and learn from the past because one's past and what we learn from that past affects our future. Once the storm has past, you can begin to see sunlight. Stay strong.

Avondale: Well, I'm not sure I told you, but Buddy is a widow., and she receives benefits as a result. In order to continue receiving those benefits for a lifetime, she has to wait to get to a certain age before remarrying or she will lose the benefits. She is just a year and a half off, so I don't want to mess her up financially when she has come so far and is so close. I'm want to be a team player. What are your plans going forward? Don't tell me it's going to be status quo.

Me: Trying to enjoy life.

Later.

Hi Avondale and Petvet,

Glad to know you both are going to still read here. Avondale,I will keep in touch through e-mail and phone calls too. Lots of times I can't really go into things here because of not knowing if H reads here.

The last step along the way has been for my attorney to send his attorney a letter requesting answers to the interrogatories that she sent back in October. We're still working on getting all the cards on the table, as he's not wanting to pay the needed support. He's saying he can't afford what the judge has ordered, so it seems our only recourse right now is to find out what he does have. The only way of truly knowing is to have him answer questions under oath. It sure is a long process.

PETVET, it sounds as if you're doing the right thing with Buddy. It will be good for her to have the security of having her finances together. I'm glad things are proceding on. Take care.

Hi all!

I'm just checking to see whether there's anyone still lurking.

Take care.

Hi there,

I'm still around - sort of. I'm recovering from hip surgery - hip is doing fine, but muscle rebuilding is slow.

My D is on hold while I was recovering, but will soon heat up again. I can't begin to describe the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach whenever I think of it. Or of my H. Or of seeing him again. I just found his ad on Yahoo Personals and it is filled with lies. Yet, as I read it, I can't help feeling deeply sad. With mixed feelings, missing the person I thought he was, reminding myself it was all smoke and mirrors.

Can't help feeling awful that he is advertising himself as being divorced (which he is not), and is out hunting for women. And makes a big point of advertising for someone who is into fitness (something he was never into, BTW) - and during the past few years with my failing hip, I wasn't very into either. And a big point of setting the age range limit he is interested in at just one year younger than I am. He is now into several things that he poo-pooed for years, like reading, being a news junkie, cooking, HAH! I could have fallen right off my crutches laughing, if it wasn't for the tears that were flowing instead.

Ah well, I suppose these mixed feelings are normal. I thought after a year it was all behind me. And, now I'm thinking I never really grieved. So, how does one grieve? What do you do to grieve? I guess I have no idea. But I better figure it out soon!

Well, off I go to lurk elsewhere. Hope everyone is doing well! I miss you all!

Hey Y'all,
I'm here, too. Deja Vu, I'm sorry your situation is getting messier. Remember, you cannot control your H and his Personal Ad lies...they will come back to bite him at some point, but you may never find out about them. Just keep focusing on your PT and getting stronger, one day at a time.

I miss you all, and hope everyone is doing OK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Post when you can!

I went in to work this morning for a meeting. I started trying to get back into a part time arrangement with doing some work at home for the next couple of weeks, and then ease back into full time.

I had offered to attend a meeting tomorrow when I talked to my boss last week. Now, today, he clearly doesn't want me there, and I'm feeling paranoid. Maybe instead of missing me, they decided they don't really need me after all!

There is lots of reorganization going on, and I'm not feeling real optimistic.

Last week one of my dogs had a grand mal seizure. Took him to the vet. Thankfully it didn't happen two weeks ago when I wasn't driving yet. Or on Monday or Thursday when we got dumped on, and I was snowbound until my plow came (still not able to shovel the driveway yet). But still, I'm worried about him and what might happen when I go back to work FT.

How's everyone else? Anyone else stopping by?

Hi all who are around!

DeJaVu: I'm sorry to hear about the negative stuff your H is doing, but please be reminded that the WS tries to move on with their life as though you don't even exist. As I have told others, hunker down because it will probably get tougher before it gets easier. Your job probably does have the out of sight out of mind attitude. Legally, they cannot get rid of you; however, they can move you to another job. If you want to become self employed, try using your grooming skills or become a vet tech part time to bring in extra money. Just a suggestion.

Avondale: I hope all is well with you.

Me: I'm busy busy busy with taxes and other stuff.

Later.

Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd drop by for a quick hello and see if anyone is still stopping by. I'm glad to see some of you are.

AVONDALE and DEJA VU,

I'll have to give you both a call so we can catch up.

PETVET,

Hope you and Buddy are doing well. Any wedding dates set now? I guess this is your busy season with taxes.

ME,

We still have our court date in April. I truly hate all of this but have to keep perspective that in the great scheme of things, it's not that much longer. I'm so ready to be done with lawyers, court and all. I long for freedom from all the junk. I'm not sure if you are ever really "free" when you share custody of children. But, at least free from the constant threat of court and the unknown of the judge's decision. Looking forward to brighter days ahead. I miss hearing from you all. Hope the rest of you are enjoying the "brighter days" already! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi all,

Leah & Avondale - I recently sent you both e-mails. Did you get them?

Petvet - I'm thinking of teaching private agility lessons. If the D is ever settled so I can buy the rest of the equipment I'd need for this.

Hanging in there...

Hey y'all,
Great to hear from everyone.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] , I hope you can see the light at the end of things, the completion of this process in April. I would love to hear how things have been going for you, so call or email as you are able.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - I know you're busy with taxes! How are things going with Buddy? Are your parents more accepting? You definitely have a "tricky" (as far as legal aspects) situation going on. I am sure you'll handle things with great consideration.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I did get your email last week (mainly dealing with mediation). I think it's another one of your H's zany tactics. How are you doing emotionally and physically? Are you still doing Physical Therapy? I know that getting all those bills is very discouraging. Did you have your surgery at a 'teaching hospital' where they can write off some of the cost for you?

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - I've had a tough week. My FIL (don't quite consider him an exFIL) has been diagnosed with leukemia. At his age I'm not sure what the treatment options are. Due to this, I've had a little more interaction with some of the in-laws, and even got an email from my exH encouraging me to visit FIL in hospital. I did (and I'm glad I did) but it still continues to point out to me that his whole family is still in a fog, and with his upcoming marriage (I still don't know the date) it makes things awkward even talking to my kids about it.

I really would like to know some things (just to settle my imagination) but (I think) it creates a strain my relationship with my daughter if I ask. I feel like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I have heard through a mutual friend, however, that my son-in-law will not go to the wedding because he feels that I am H's wife in the eyes of God. But I think my daughter will go. How strange is that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Avondale:

No, I didn't have my surgery at a teaching hospital. My insurance should pay for it... but I AM holding my breath. The up side is that at this point, it IS a bargaining chip re: my D. I can't count on it until it's paid. There are reasons it might not be paid - reasons my original insurance rejected it and why I changed insurance. I went forward with only a verbal approval...

Sorry to hear about your FIL's illness, and your XH's upcoming marriage. It's got to be tough, really tough, even if it's for sure over. As long as there are memories and recollections of lost dreams, I imagine it will never be 100% over for any of us. Just like we burn a tiny candle in our hearts for those who've passed on ahead of us, I suspect our (dead) marriages are in that same category.

Happy Easter

Hello friends! Hope you have all had a wonderful Easter. This was my first Easter without my girls but it was okay. I went to church this morning and had lunch with friends. Then, I came home and painted this evening. I'm trying to surprise my daughter with a new color for her bedroom before she returns.

AVONDALE and DEJA VU,

I've thought about calling both of you but seem to think of it at the wrong times. I almost called you today but then thought you'd probably be busy with family. So, I thought I'd post instead.

ME

This last trial was not my final trial. That is yet to come. So at the moment, I'm still legally married. We were able to settle the issues out of court this past week, which was a blessing.

H is still putting a lot of pressure on me to give in to his demands but I am still hanging in there. I've come this far so I guess it would be pretty silly to cave now.

Hope you are all doing well. Post when you can.

Hey All!

Just thought I would drop in and say hi.

Today is my 4th year anniversay of the day my now ex-wife walked out the door... and we have still not heard a peep out of her.

avondale...

Sorry to hear about your FIL. How is he doing overall and what is the prognosis for the long term?

It is strange that your D will go to your ex's wedding, but your SIL, refuses. Usually it's the other way around.

My children would not have gone to my exW's wedding. In fact... as I write this... they still don't want anything to do with their mother.

Deja Vu...

Hope your feeling better... and recovering well. I may have to go in for surgery next month... not looking forward to that.

Leah...

Glad to hear your finally making some head way. It has been a long road for you. Hopefully it will come to a conclusion sometime soon. It never ever goes away... it just comes to a conclusion.

Petvet, EC, Trusting Him and anyone else I missed...

Hope you are all doing well!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all! Yes, I was busy with taxes and my regular customers.

Avondale: I must have missed something which was easy for me. Your ex is getting remarried!!!! I thought he just starting dating someone. It's hard when one has to interact with folks from a prior life because it brings back memories. It is sad. I recommend that you try to support your FIL as best you can. Try to take the high road and don't pay any attention to your ex's foolishness.

Wallace: Yeah, I'm like you. Unconsciously, I remember the anniversary of my divorce. I have been divorce for three years and former left me five years ago. I'm glad you are doing well.

Me: I'm doing fine. I celebrate my birthday on Monday.

I really miss you guys.

Later.

Hey Petvet,

Well "Happy Birthday" to you!

Your B-day is on the same day as my Mom's B-day, and my YD's B-day is the day after that.

I got B-days coming and going all month long this month and next month.

I miss you guys too!

I've been so busy... but I'm going to try to make an effort to stay connected to MBer's boards... it's hard to stay away from these boards. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If I go in for surgery next month... after I get out... I'll have about a weeks worth of down time.

I'll try and stay in touch more often.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]Petvet [/color] - Happy (belated) birthday! I am glad to see you survived another tax season. What's new with you and Buddy?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - always great to hear from you, and see your posts elsewhere. I think you and everyone here has a lot of wisdom and insight to share, which can help others coping through this D mess.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - How are things going for you? Take Wallace's byline, and "Stay Strong". I need to take some of my own advice, I think <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - How are you? Have you had your mediation yet? If so, how did it go? I don't remember if you gave the date or not.

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - Well, my ex-father-in-law died last night. I have all along planned to go to the funeral. My daughter called a little while ago and told me the plans (ex-FIL last wishes) are for my Ex-Hubby to speak and play a piece on piano.

Now I'm not so sure I want to go to the funeral. On one hand, I want to go to show I "got over it" and have moved past the hurt, also to see the "GF" that Ex-H has. (I admit it!) On the other hand, I will have to see the "GF" being pals with my kids when the family is seated up front, and also witness the hypocriticalness of my Ex-H speaking from the pulpit in a church. I feel sick in my gut, haven't felt this bad emotionally since I found out about the A four years ago. Any advice? Will I regret not going in later years, or will that look bad to the family? (I continue to be on good terms with ex-MIL and other in-laws, btw.) Should I just swallow my pride and go, but not linger? Please help me sort this out before Friday morning!

Hi avondale,

I didn't see this until just now... and I know Friday has come and gone.

I am so sorry to hear about your ex-FIL. Hopefully you did decide to go (as hard as it must of been). You were in a very touchy situation... but sometimes you just have to be the bigger person... pay your respects... not linger around... and leave.

What did you finally decide to do?

My prayers are with you and your family, as it always is a very traumatic experience when a close family member passes.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Update on me: [/color]
Yes, I decided to go to the funeral. I had two good friends with me, which helped. That morning, my BIL called and said the family (I actually think he said my H) would like me to sit with them if I wanted to. Because it was kind of last minute, I declined since there would have been some seating details to further work out (didn't want to sit next to H's future wife!). I also found out through my son that H's wedding is in 3 weeks. Bummer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

That did help me, though, with realizing a little bit of "where I am" with the family. Also, after the funeral, all my neices and nephews (they're all in their 20's) came up to me individually and said they missed me! So a little validation went a long way. Thanks for asking!

[color:"red"] How is everyone...maybe we should do a once-a-month check in or something, even if nothing specific is going on...? [/color]

I thought I might check back in to see how you made out.

I'm glad you went... as you are in fact the better person, with no reason to feel guilt or anything negative about yourself amongst the people that you have known and cared for.

I don't blame you for not sitting next to your exH. That would of been a little much IMO.

So your exH is getting M in 3 weeks?

You really have to wonder what runs through their heads, when you hear about things like that.

When my exW remarried... it brought some sort of closure to what our situation had been. Hopefully it will do the same for you as well avondale.

A once a month check in sounds good to me... count me in.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] [/color] Wallace, [color:"blue"] [/color]

Hi! Great to see you posting again. I hope your surgergy goes well this month. How are you and your girlfriend doing? Are you still together? Will she be helping you in your recovery process after surgery?

[color:"blue"] [/color] Avondale, [color:"blue"] [/color]

I've been thinking of you and praying for you in regards to the upcoming wedding. Just as you were able to go to the funeral and show yourself to be a strong and forgiving person, I know you will get through this as well. God will give you the strength and grace to accept this and move forward in life. I'm sure He has something special for you!

[color:"blue"] [/color] Deja Vu, [color:"blue"] [/color]

I've been thinking of you too as you recover from surgery and deal with the on-going divorce issues. I know how draining the whole process can be. You, too, are a survivor and you're going to be okay. How did your mediation appt. go? Are you going to be able to settle things out of court?

[color:"blue"] [/color] Petvet, [color:"blue"] [/color]

Have things slowed down for you at work or are you still busy in May? How are you and Buddy doing? I hope well.

[color:"blue"] [/color] Me, [color:"blue"] [/color]

I'm trying to "Stay Strong". My husband, his attorney, my attorney and I are all going to meet on Wed., the 10th. I'm praying for a miracle! I'd love to get this thing resolved out of court - If we came up with an agreement, we could actually be divorced this month, as it will be a year since he moved out.

I so much long to have peace with him but I don't know if that will be possible. Anyhow, we're going to try. Please stay in touch. I'm always glad to hear from all of you!

Hi All,

I hope all is well with everyone.

Avondale: I'm sorry to hear about your former FIL. One of the bad things about ending a marriage is that many times the relationaship one had with the inlaws ends as well. It's especially hard if one had a good relationship with them. I would not have sat next to your former hsuband either.

Wallace: I'm glad you are still checking in. How is everything with your GF.

Leah: Are things winding down with the D?

Me: I'm still plugging along. Buddy and I are doing well.

Later.

Great to hear from you, Petvet.

Well I am at a new stage of "wonderfulness". My ExH got married last weekend. To my surprise, I haven't obsessed about it at all. I didn't fantasize about crashing the party, or even ask my kids (who went) what they thought. I guess I've finally realized "it is what it is". Took me long enough, didn't it? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

How is everyone else doing these days?

Hi all! I hope have a good holiday. Not only remember the died, but the wounded as well.

Avondale: It's best to try to put the ex out of your mind and move on. You have to take of yourself now. Find your happiness. You are on your way.

Wallace: Hope all is well!

Everyone else: Keep in touch with us.

Me: I am doing fine. I am headed to Jamaica for the first time this weekend for a family vacation. It will be my kid's first plane ride. I hope he doesn't go crazy.

Take care.

Hi all!

I'm just passing through. Hope all is well with everyone.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - If you're still reading this, did your GF wear you down and put a ring on your finger?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Good to see you're still around, albeit with "drive by" posts!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I know you're still in the throes of settlement. Were you able to get the data you needed? Email or call me when you can!

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I haven't heard from you in weeks! How are things going? Have you been able to finalize things yet?

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - Hope you're doing well. What are your summer plans?

[color:"blue"] Relady [/color] - I don't know if you're reading this, but you're in my thoughts!

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - I'm taking my grandmother's ring (it's obviously an antique, art deco style that doesn't look like it's marriage-related) and having it sized to fit my now naked fourth finger on my left hand. I still have an indentation from my wedding rings even after 3-4 weeks. But I am at peace...hey, I have to be - it's certainly out of MY control!

Hey All!

Thought I would check in after a very busy 4 weeks.

Update on myself:

Went to the doctor a couple weeks ago, and I have to go back July the 11th. I'll probably know more after that... but at the moment it's not looking real good.

G/F went out and bought a brand new house which is about 26 miles Northeast of Denver. Needless to say... I am not very happy about it, nor am I very happy with her. I wasn't consulted about it at all, and she expected me to marry her and move in to her new house. Not happy with her at all!

I highly doubt that her and I will get married. With what she just did... it really made me take about five steps back, and really look at the whole situation. Needless to say... that's not looking real good either.

avondale...

How are you making out since your exH remarried.

Don't take it to hard... it won't change a thing, and you need to start looking after you.

Petvet...

Hope you had a good vacation in Jamaica man. lol

Leah...

How are you making out with your settlement with your former? That's been going on for a long time now... are you getting close th finalizing the whole thing yet?

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

I'll be in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi everyone,

Just dropping by for a few minutes... I apologize for having gone dark for so long, but my life has been so hectic I'm barely surviving the hassles.

Wallace - sorry to hear about your G/F, but I too see red flags a'flyin' - what's up with your health? I hope you will be OK.

Leah, Avondale - long time no hear. I hope things are going OK with you. Avondale - sorry about your XH's remarriage. I did know about that, and followed your story about that wedding. Leah - haven't heard from you lately...

Petvet - guess I missed the note about your vacation. I'm jealous!

Me: too much going on and too many tears in my beer. Finally finished and mailed my taxes to the accountant today. My insurance is still denying my $45K in claims; my D is still going on, and I think will continue until one of us dies.

I'm still recovering from the surgery, not able to get down on the floor yet, or able to mow my lawn (at least not the part that goes uphill.)

H is now claiming the house has depreciated by $125K and therefore no $$ left for me. And that he, of course, can't sell it now as he owes more than it's worth. My position? So sorry, so sad - he took money out for his debts that were supposed to go to ME FIRST to pay back my pre-nup money. So, he's going to have a lot of $$ to pay back. I can just see me with my 6 figures gone and nothing left but legal bills. Geez - how can this stuff happen? It just blows my mind.

This just never ends, and my attorney is too conservative, and is not wanting to make waves, it seems. We'll see what happens at the next mediation - there is a pre-trial scheduled as well as a final trial. Hopefully we won't have to go that far, but I no longer have much faith in anything.

One more thing going on - my job is not real secure right now. There are consultants in trying to decide what to do with my department, and several people have already quit. Not sure there's enough folks left to still be useful. So we'll see... I've sort of started an informal job search. But don't really want to do this until the D is final.

I'm thinking of all of you often - and will try to stop by more often now that a few things are off my plate.

Hi All,

It's good to read updates from each of you.

WALLACE- I'm sorry to hear you're having health problems. I hope things are okay. Please let us know how your Dr. appt. goes on the 11th. I'll be praying for you.

Also, that's too bad about your girlfriend. It seems there have been a number of question marks for quite awhile. Are you still seeing her? Maybe, the house thing was a good warning flag. Of course, if you're like me, you need to have about a hundred of those flags waving in your face before you get a clue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I just always want to think the best. Take care of yourself and stay in touch.

DEJA VU - I can so identify with where you are. It can seem like such a never ending process with the only benefactors being the attorneys. Yikes!! I'm so sick of it. I hope either your job holds steady or something even better opens up for you. Hang in there with your recovery. It sounds as if you are slowly getting back on your feet. I'm sure it's hard to be patient with the whole process. Keep looking up!

PETVET- It's always good to hear from you, even if it comes in a drive through fashion. Smile. Hope you had a great time away. Sounds wonderful! How did your son like flying?

AVONDALE- I was thinking about giving you a call tonite. Then I thought I'd check in here first. I'll try to call sometime in the next few weeks as the girls are gone right now. Hope you're doing well.

RELADY, EC and Trusting Him - Hi to all of you. Hope you can stop by and drop us a line sometime. We always enjoy hearing from you.

ME- We weren't able to come up with an agreement last negotiation. I'm now busy filling out pages of interogatories. Such silliness...in that H knows every penny I've received over the past eighteen years of marriage. But I guess it's all part of the lovely process.

I'm bone weary of this divorce. I keep hoping we can come up with an agreement that would make court unnecessary. But, at this point H will not agree to the necessary amount. Sometimes, I'm ready to take anything to have it over but then sanity prevails.

I'm not even looking to having equal or fair distribution of assets. I just want enough to comfortably raise the girls and have enough to start a retirement fund. He can have the majority of the assets. But, if he can not give at least that much I will have no choice but to go to court.

I've also had a difficult time with my in-laws. They use to be so supportive but now have totally turned on me. They have pressured me with phone calls, letters and e-mails. They are trying to get me to give into their boy's demands. They are not wanting him to experience the consequences of his choices. It's such a sad situation.

Yet, I'm not giving up. Life will get better someday. I'm still trusting God with all that I don't understand. I believe He has a hope and future for all of us. It just might not happen in our time but His.

My thoughts and prayers are with you all.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - It’s good to hear from you, even though the news of your possible medical problem is sobering. I hope the fact that you don’t go back to the doctor until several weeks after the previous visit is a good sign. Please keep us updated about that. I’m kind of blown away that your GF went ahead with the house purchase. Where do things stand with you two now?

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I’m so glad you posted, but saddened to hear your situation is still dragging on. The job uncertainty has got to make your stress level go over the edge. Try to stay calm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I think you’re wise to not get into any formal job searches until the D is final, or at least farther along.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - So glad you posted, too. I have been thinking of you, and wondering how those interrogatories were going. Just play his game a little bit and do them, get them over with, and move one step closer, I suppose. It’s sad to hear your in-laws are creating havoc, too. Just let their comments go in one ear, and out the other. Don’t take on any of their baggage. They are very deceived about their son, which is so easy for parents to do. They possibly feel like if they have to lose one child (you or him) it will be you, and they want to cement their relationship with him. Did your pastor ever meet with them again about your situation?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Tell us about your trip, eh, mannn. Did your son get de uppy-chucky on de plane? Did anyone else go on the trip? So you go an order nother round of margas and sit back, relax and remember now dat you be hom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - Not much new here. I went to the bank last week and stood next to someone I hadn’t seen in a long time, and didn’t recognize him. It was my ex-husband! He looked VERY different, imagine clean cut (formerly) to Grizzly Adams (current look). I must have stood there for 5 minutes before I realized it was him. Then he looked at me (glad I put on lipstick before I went in!) and we said “hello” very civilly. And that was it. Very strange feeling, but I feel I handled it well. Just a surprise at the way he looks.

<bump> anyone around?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] ,
I know today was your doctor visit - please let us know how you're doing. I will send you an email, too...just in case you don't check back here soon enough to suit me!

Hey All!

Well went through all the tests with my Doctor yesterday, and I'm happy to say I flew through it all with flying colors.

I was surprised... as it appeared I was going in the direction of needing heart surgery.

I'm happy to say... that is not the case... my heart is in good shape.

In regards to my girlfriend and I... we are still together.

I had to laugh Leah about having a bunch of red flags waving at you before it all sets in. I think I run the same way.

G/F is moved in to her new house and is now nesting. She likes her new place a lot, so I guess all the headaches she had going were worth it for her at least.

She did place a ring on my finger avondale, and now wants me to marry her and move into her new house with her. I told her, that wouldn't happen until next June at the earliest, as my YD is still going to College.

avondale...

That is pretty wild, running into your H at the bank and not
realize it was him. My exW probably wouldn't know me either, as I have let my hair grow out as well. It's not real long... but long enough. My girlfriend hates it... but that's life. She buys a new house, and I let my hair grow out.

Leah...

I'm sorry to hear that you are still going through all the motions of the divorce with no end in sight. This has been going on for what seems like forever. No mediators to step in and help out?

DejaVu...

Hope your making a good recovery after your surgery. Do you have anyone to help you with any of the day to day chores.
That has to be pretty tough on you to try to do it all by yourself.

Prayers for you DejaVu.

Petvet...

How's things going for you?

You and Buddy get a firm date on when you two are going to take the big plunge? Just the thought of marrigage scares me to death at this point.

EC, relady, Trusting Him, and anyone else I that I might have left out...

I hope your all doing well and give us a shout when you get time.

I'll be in touch.

Stay Storng!

Wallace

Hi all!

Avondale: I can imagine how you felt running into your ex. After the closeness both had at one time, it was like you guys never knew eachother. I'm proud of you how you handled everything. I told you that your ex is in another world.

Dejavu: Your situation cannot go on forever. It has to come to an end sooner or later. Once again, stay strong and pray.

Wallace: I'm happy your health is good. Time is on your side when it comes to marriage. Let her wait until you feel the time is right.

Me: Getting ready to head to Hilton Head next week for vacation II. I did not like Jamaica.

Later.

Hi all!

Just checking in. I see no one has been here in a while. I will continue to check in.

Take care.

Hi Everyone,

WALLACE,

So happy to hear everything checked out okay at the doctors. What a relief that must be. I'm glad to know your G/F is happy with her new house.

So when it comes to marriage, is it going to be a go when your youngest is done with college? I'm sure your girlfriend will be more than ready for it by then and you'll have run out of excuses. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You asked about mediators. Actually, we've been to see two of them. We've also had three "Four-Ways" ( Meeting with his attorney, my attorney and us ) We've met with two counselors. We've met with the pastor of the church. We've been to court twice. And the list go on.

All this and we're still no closer to a solution. He's still fighting for custody and a reduction in child support. We're also headed back to court Sept. 15th.
So, I appreciate the prayers to "Stay Strong". I need them.

HI TO PETVET, AVONDALE, TRUSTING HIM, DEJA VU AND ANYONE ELSE I MIGHT HAVE MISSED.

Hope you are all doing well and enjoying life. I'm hoping DEJA VU and I will be enjoying life more once all this yuck is done. Take care everyone!

Hi everyone,

Stopping by... missing this thread actually!

Leah, I'm with you girl, SO with you! Mediation, court... same stuff. I have mediation tomorrow, then court on Thursday and who knows when we'll have the final hearing. Sounds like similar stuff for you. Are you staying strong? One of these days we should chat again... is there any end in sight for you? what will it take to end it?

On the good side, my sister is helping me with getting my documentation in order and is coming to the mediation sessions with me. Thankfully a sense of sanity when I'm not keeping it together, I don't know what I'd do without her.

My health is improving, and I've actually ended my PT now, in pretty good shape again, finally. Still get tired, and have hired lawn service to do the mowing this year. But I can see the end in sight, and am now able to run with my border collie, atleast somewhat!

Wallace, so glad to hear about your clean bill of health! Bet that's a load off your mind.

Petvet, how was Hilton Head? What's wrong with Jamaica? Not that it's on my short list... but one of these days, I want to take a warm vacation!

Avondale? Long time no hear... how are you doing? Hope that XH stuff is behind you now.

Anyone else I missed?

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - It's GREAT to hear from you! I am so glad things are winding down for you (the drama, not your marriage). And that's wonderful news that you don't need PT anymore. Congratulations! I know this has been a long summer for you with both impending D and PT.

Things with me are the same...no dating (which is OK), no traveling (OK since latest terror scare), but I have done some things around the house by myself, which makes me proud.

How is everyone else?

Hi all!

Dejavu & Leah: Go luck in your mediation. I hated the mediation process. I considered it a waste of time. I wish you luck. If you can make it work, it can save you alot of money in attorney fees.

Avondale: I am glad you are OK with things in your life right now. Stay in touch.

Wallace: How are you doing?

Me: All is well.

Later.

OK - here's an update - finally! My last mediation was Monday. Presumably we now have a deal. It's not a great deal, might not even be a good deal - but it's one that is most likely to yield me SOME $$, get rid of the scum that used to be my H, and get my name off his house and his name off my house. In other words, set yourself free...!!

His attorney has managed to deliberatly screw up everything and back out of every agreement we've ever had, so neither I or my lawyer are confident she will do the right thing now either. But, he and the mediator have taken steps to make it difficult for her to pull anything more. So, God willing, we'll be done with this in a few more weeks.

On another note - last Thurs I was on vacation, trying to get the wiring fixed in my garage (because it was filling the garage with smoke!) getting my brakes fixed on my car, etc. when I got a call to come in to work. My boss was fired, the department reorganized and we were to meet with the new boss that afternoon. So, OK, I don't need job security - - -

Well, though it looked bleak and a bit scary at first, it is for the best. I've now met with my new boss, and feel quite optimistic. I may finally get a chance for a new position, doing something I'd rather do and thought I was hired to do in the first place. Then today I get a call from a former co-worker telling me about a new job he wants me to apply for in his new place. Yup, things is lookin' up!, Yup.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - That is GREAT news about your job! And I'm so glad that it appears your settlement is winding down. You've had more than your share of mess with this. I'm sure you will have a full "fresh start" when it's all behind you.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I haven't forgotten that your court date is tomorrow. I will be praying for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"]Petvet [/color] - I'm glad you still check in here. I do too, and sometimes post on other threads. But it's not the same as our old Tough Love group.

[color:"blue"] Wallace, EC, Trusting Him [/color] , and anybody else - give a lil post once in a while!

Leah, drop in and let us know how you are doing, OK? Thinking of you today!

Hi Everyone,

Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back here. Life has been extremely busy. All three girls are involved in sports. The younger two are playing soccer and the oldest is in JV volleyball. So, I'm on the run most days.

We didn't end up going to court on the 15th. We made a last minute deal with insurance and the guardian ad litum. She came for her first visit yesterday. Things seemed to go very well.

I am now past making offers with H. I've tried and tried and have reached a point where I'm going to let the judge decide. I don't think I could do any worse than all of the current offers that have gone back and forth. I don't want to give up any more time with the girls than will be necessary.

So, no more "Mr. Nice Guy" for me. H's put me through enough and will probably keep fighting me until the girls are gone. I think I'll need every penny the judge might award me. I have now reached the point where I'm going to let the consequences come for H. I've tried to protect him for too long. This is life and it's what "sowing and reaping" are all about.

Enough about me.... How are all the rest of you?

DEJA VU: I am thrilled to read your latest. It sounds as if things truly are turning around for you! Yeah! Is your divorce finalized now? If so, congratulations! Time to start a new life and move forward. I wish you all the best!

PETVET: How are things with your family? You certainly are in a far different place than you were years ago when you began this thread. Isn't it nice to have all that stuff behind you?

AVONDALE: Hi there! Hope you're enjoying a nice fall. It's been beautiful up here with the change of leaves and blue sky. I imagine the cooler weather is heading your way soon.

HI TO WALLACE, TRUSTING HIM, RELADY, EC AND ALL OTHERS!

Please write sometime and let us know how you are. We miss hearing from you!

He Lives!

What can I say? I really thought I could make it in life without Marriage Builders and Tough Love 2 but I guess not! :~P

Just kidding of course. But I sure have missed each and every one of you all here. Ive got TONS of reading to catch up on so I can't really say that I know what;s going on in each of your lives. But quite sure I will know real soon.

Leah2be - Briefly read a few and it sounds like you're still in the same boat. Prayers are still going up for you and the girls.

Avondale! - Man have I missed you! *throws tons of hugs toward Avondale* Opps! That's probably the closest I've come to flirting in almost - Hmmmmmmmm - Gosh! I've been divorced for three years now and still no dates <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Not really (the sad face). HAving a GREAT time where I am and spending loads of time with my son.

PetVet, Wallace adn everyone else. It sure is good to see some familiar names still around here. Maybe tomorrow I can catch up on the reading. Raining here in Atlanta which means I probably will not work tomorrow. (yes, change of jobs and now I'm working construction and LOVING it)

Untill later Folks!

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:~P

Hi all!

It's great to hear from you'll.

DeJaVu: I am happy to hear that things seem to be coming to an end. I'm surprise that mediation worked. Keep hope alive.

Leah2be: YOU MUST PROTECT YOURSELF. Let your H have it.Hang tough. Remember, he started all this because of his lack of commitment.

Avondale: I hope you are doing well. How is your social life?

Trusting: Glad to hear from you again.

Wallace: Where are you?

Me: I miss the old days. Sometimes, I wonder is it best that I stay alone.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Great to hear from you. The personal update you gave was a little cryptic. Did something happen between you and "Buddy"? When you say "old days" what were you referring to?

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - It was great to see your post, too. I am glad you're able to remain positive! What an example for us <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> As I said before, you were missed (along with everyone else, too!)

How's everyone else doing?

I just posted (in a separate post) about my divorce becoming final last week. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3122429

I didn't find out until just a couple of days ago... so it is sort of anticlimactic. It was final on my most special dog's 12th birthday, and 2 days after this dog earned his tracking dog title. Not sure what that means, but it is kind of cool because this dog has always been there for me, and as we all know, XH has not.

I wonder when it will hit me? In some ways it doesn't feel any different, as I've been on my own now for almost 2 years. I suppose the main thing is lifting this fog, and not having to put decisions on hold anymore.

How is everyone else?

PetVet... what's up with you? deciding to stay single after all?

Trusting... I don't think you were around here much when I started posting, but I have read a couple of your posts.

Avondale...Leah2B... thanks to you both for your support over the past many months. Leah, I guess now I can say, someday there will be an end in sight for you too. I am surely rooting, and praying, for you.

Wallace... how R U?

Anyone else out there?

Hey All,

How is everyone doing?

Well it took me forever to log in, as I forgot about the password having to be in caps.

Well a few things have changed in my life.

My YD who was suppose to be going to College, decided to turn it into a big party for herself, so I decided to have her go out on her own, and see what life is really all about. So no more money for her tuition, and she had to get her own place as I could not sit back and watch her throw her life down the drain.

My G/F has given me a drop dead date of June the 1st of next year to either marry her, or she is going to break up with me.

Both of us are gearing up for the break up as I am still not sure if I want to commit to another marriage.

Aside from that, I'm doing pretty good all in all. I've been real busy with life... which seems to be a full time job all in of itself.

Deja Vu...

I'm glad to hear that you finally got through the legal process. I can't believe how long that took.

Petvet, avondale Leah, Trusting, EC, Relady and anyone else I might have missed ...

How are all of you doing?

Let us know when you get a chance

Well I thought I would drop by and say Hi to everyone, and check in.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi everyone,

Seems like a lot of cold feet around here. I can sure relate to that. There comes a point when re-marriage has a new set of risks for many of us.

Anyway, Wallace, it's good to hear from you.

Hope everyone else is well.

How are you making out Deja Vu?

What do you have planned for the Holidays, anything worthwhile?

I don't know about you... but I still dread the Holiday season.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

It's great to hear from both of you! I had just about given up on any Tough Love alumni returning to Marriage Builders!

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] , it sure sounds like your YD is following after her older sister. How is the OD doing these days? Better, I hope. When you say "drop dead date" for marriage, what makes this time different from other dates that have been set for that event?

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Have things gotten better at your job?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - I miss you - have YOU set a wedding date yet?

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - I hope you're doing well and enjoying God's grace!

[color:"blue"] Leah2Be [/color] - what's new with you?

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - I am also dreading the holidays. This Thanksgiving instead of the 20 in-laws I used to have, I am going to join some friends. You know, I'll be the person they all feel sorry for <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hello to [color:"blue"] EC, Relady [/color] , and everyone else!

Hi avondale,

Good to hear from you... and it appears that your feeling the same way about the Holidays as I am.

My OS and myself will be going to my G/F's new house for Thanksgiving. All of her kids and her mother will be there... so it should be a real experience. I would personally like to just stay at my own house... but that is not going to happen.

This drop dead date is not like the others. She has it set in her head that if I'm not married to her by June the 1st, then that's it... she is going to break up with me.

We have not been getting along very well here lately because of this threat hanging over my head. I don't work well with threats.

Anyway, I hope your doing well, and don't let your friends feel to sorry for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope the rest of the Tough Love Gang is doing well.

I'll be in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

While have time today, I want to wish everyone on the "Tough Love" thread and on MBers a "Happy Thanksgiving"!

I hope you all have and wonderful day and may God bless you all.

Stay Strong!

Wallce

I echo Wallace's thoughts. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Hey All!

Thought I would drop in and wish everyone a "Happy Holiday", a "Merry Christmas", and a "Happy New Year"!

I'm doing O.K., and I hope everyone else is doing good as well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone!

I've been thinking of all of you and wanted to drop in and wish you all a very Merry Christmas! It's always good to hear from all of you!

I now have a final court date. Yeah! I'm so ready for it to be over. The date is March 21. I'm still hoping and praying that it can be settled out of court but I don't know if there is much hope for that. I'm curious, did most of you settle out of court?

Avondale I was happy to hear from you by e-mail. I hope you are still doing well and are all ready for Christmas.

Wallace So often I think of your line, "Stay Strong" That is one of my main goals these days. I'm glad to say that has probably been my number one change these past few years. I'm a much tougher lady than before.

As far as you and your girlfriend, most of us don't work well with a threat hanging over our neck. I think it's understandable why you are not having much fun. Maybe she's really not for you. I think if she was you would know it by now. Just my opinion... I hope life gets happier for you!

Petvet Speaking of girlfriends, your last comment leaves us all guessing. Are things okay with you and Buddy?
I hope you are okay and that you and your son have a great Christmas together.

Deja Vu Congratulations! Wow, it must feel great to have the divorce behind you! I'm glad you are now free of that and wish you all the best in your future. Sounds as if your job situation is looking up as well! That's great!

Trusting Him It was good hearing from you. I'm so glad you're loving your new job! That is good to hear. Keep us posted.

Merry Christmas and God bless each of you with peace, joy and love!

Hi all!

I have been on the beach relatively speaking.

Wallace: The old drop dead date. It seems that your G/F is flexing her muscles again. Have we been here before? You better get out of the way before you get a black eye, or even worst. I was telling someone the other day that if my son does not go to college at eighteen, he has to find a job. I will start to drive this home to him when he turns eleven. Kids have to understand that their parents are not going to be around always to take care of them. They have to take care of themselves. Good job Wallace. Advice: If you don't see a future with G/F, let her go. Time and life are precious. Don't waste it. If you can go through a divorce and survive, you can end a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship.

Leah: Sweetie, you have come this far, so be patient and wait till March. Stand by your rights. Stay strong.

Avondale: How are you doing? Is your ex still making a butt of himself? Check this out, I know someone who is dating a girl over thirty years his junior. She's in her twenties, and he will turn sixty next month. It is time for you to fly.

Me: All is going ok. Buddy and I are getting married in September 2007. My ex has reared her ugly head again. I had to file a contempt order on her because she cancelled our son's health insurance among some other things. Needless to say, she and her family are out with me. I cannot continue to allow her to walk all over me. If one is not going to follow the court order, what's the point of having one. I wish everyone a happy Christmas and New Year.

Later.

Happy New Year everyone!

Wallace - your story reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day - the more things change, the more they stay the same. Hope this takes care of itself for you, sooner rather than later.

Petvet - some things never really go away, do they? Sorry your ex is still making problems.

Leah - I'm praying for you for March. Send me an e-mail or call if you feel like talking.

Avondale - how R U? Long time no hear!

To others I've missed - I hope this will be a better year for everyone!

Me - My XH contacted me to see if I'd remove the lien on the house so he could sell it for less than he owes on it. Huh? Says he'll still pay me my money, yeah right. The track record supports that, oh sure. So then he says if I don't do this, he will let the house go into foreclosure and I'll not get my money anyway. Then he suggested it would mess up my credit - NOT! my name isn't on the house OR his mortgage anymore, and we are not married either. It's interesting that he says I'll get my money if he sells the house without being able to pay my lien, but not if it goes into foreclosure - same deal as far as I can tell. He'll have to come up with the $$ either way. Or maybe he has another wrinkle up his sleeve.

On the upbeat side, I got a new puppy for Christmas! It's like starting out the new year without the ex, and WITH a new little spark of life instead.

Cheers to everyone!

Hey all!

Just thought I would drop by and see if anyone is still around.

Life is going all right for me... nothing really new to speak of.

YD is causing me problems, even though she has been out of the house for about 6 months... so I cut all contact with her off.

I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

I'm still around, although I don't check these boards daily like I used to. In fact, it's been a few weeks since I've been here.

I'm glad I saw your post, Wallace. I'm sorry to hear about your YD. I know that is hard to do, but love has to be tough, right? Are you still in contact with your OD?

Not much new with me at all. I may be having a job change soon and of course, I'm still fantacizing about retiring and living at the beach <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I sure hope other Tough Love alumni will check in periodically. It's always great to hear from y'all!

HI EVERYONE!

I had to stop by and let all my old friends know some important news. H and I met with a mediator and worked out an agreement! I took less than what I probably could have got if we went to court but I'm okay with it. My main concern was getting custody of the girls and that I have!

I feel comfortable with the financial agreement that we have and feel that the girls and I will be taken care of. I told H I was willing to take less money in our settlement if he could offer enough support so that I could work part time the next five years. My main priority was being able to be here for the girls as it won't be long and they'll be gone.

It just seems kind of unbelievable at this point... after eight years of trying to save this marriage, it's really ending. I've had a whole bag of mixed emotions over it. I'm sad to know it never did work out yet I am also relieved to have it finally resolved. It just took so long to get here. But God has been faithful and has taught me so much. I'm trusting Him to use it in my life as only He can. I'm ready to move forward to brighter days!

I hope each of you is doing well. Please drop in and give an update every now and then. I think of you and wonder how each of you is doing. God bless you!

Hi all,

I posted here recently after Wallace's post prior to his last, and I see it did not show up.

Wallace: I'm sorry you are having problems with your YD, but all you can do is raise the kids as best as you can. At some point, they have to make their own decisions.

Avondale: I'm glad you are happy and things are going well.

Leah: If you are please with everything in the settlement, I am happy for you. I know a load has been taken off your shoulders.

Me: I am doing well.

Later.

Hey all -
Leah, I know the relief you're feeling. You certainly hung in there and tried for a VERY long time! And I'm so glad it worked out with the mediator. I'm guessing that everything is now under a court's jurisdiction, it's set in stone?

Petvet - Great to hear from you also! Are you still with your buddy? Miss hearing from you, and I hope all is well.

Me - Not much new. Son moved to TX which is good for him. I'm VERY slowly clearing out 25 years' worth of accumulation at my house. Who knows, someday I might move. In the meantime, spring in the Carolinas is wonderful!

I hope the rest of the Tough Love gang can post here as they check back in periodically.

Hi All,

It's been awhile since I posted.

Leah...

Glad to hear that everything finally is settling down for you.
It's been quite a journey for you... but hopefully things will be getting better.

Avondale...

How are you making out?

Are you still in your same house or are you going to move to a new place.

Once the kids are all out of the house... it does get quite quiet.

Petvet...

So when are you getting married?

Go on any new vacation trips lately?

Deja Vu...

Have you sold your house yet?

How is your new Christmas puppy doing?

Me...

I'm doing pretty good all in all.

My drop dead date of June the 1st is coming up, and I don't think I'm going to make it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We will see what happens from there... I might be in for a few more changes in the not to distant future.

Hope everyone is well and doing good, and for all that I missed... I hope your all doing good as well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Wallace: I hope all is well. Does your June 1st drop dead date means that if g/f does not get it together that you are going to kick her to the curb?

Avondale: I think you have a major vacation in your near future. Only move things if you are ready.

Dejavu: What type of pup do you have?

Me: Yes, wedding in still on for September 15th.I am doing well.

Quote

Deja Vu...

Have you sold your house yet?

My XH has the house now - my name is off the deed and was never on the refinanced mortgage. BUT I have a lien on the house to protect my interest, and he is paying me a monthly amount against my equity. If he defaults on the payments, it converts to spousal maintenance and he has to pay legal fees to collect. So.. I don't have to deal with the sale of the house, and have about as much protection for my assets as is possible under the circumstances.

Quote

How is your new Christmas puppy doing?

"Trick" is doing great! He's a wonderful puppy - but at age 5 months is at a bratty age now. He's trying to push the older dogs around to see where he fits in the pack. But, really smart and clever - and athletic! He'll be a great agility dog!

Quote

Dejavu: What type of pup do you have?

He's an English Cocker! Blue roan. If I could figure out how to attach a picture to this list, I'd share it!

Quote

Me: Yes, wedding in still on for September 15th.I am doing well.

Well, cool for you. I'm glad to hear things are working out for you.

To everyone else... I am glad to hear a few folks are still stopping by to say hi. I've not been posting lately, because I've been busy and pretty much just trying to regroup my life. Kind of boring stuff really. But necessary. It's odd to spend 2 years under so much stress with constant conflict, and suddenly it's gone and you don't have to deal with it anymore. I keep thinking I'll wake up and it'll all still be going on. Thankfully that won't happen!

Quote

Oh Leah, I'm SO happy for you. You were so supportive to me, and I think of you often wondering how things turned out for you. Funny, because I thought I had set up to get e-mails when anyone posted here, and either missed some or the technology isn't reliable. So, I'm glad I stopped by and read a few of the posts.

Quote

I feel comfortable with the financial agreement that we have and feel that the girls and I will be taken care of. I told H I was willing to take less money in our settlement if he could offer enough support so that I could work part time the next five years. My main priority was being able to be here for the girls as it won't be long and they'll be gone.

Sounds like a good strategy. I'm sure you'll not regret it. I'm glad you got the girls.

Quote

It just seems kind of unbelievable at this point... after eight years of trying to save this marriage, it's really ending. I've had a whole bag of mixed emotions over it. I'm sad to know it never did work out yet I am also relieved to have it finally resolved. It just took so long to get here.

Boy, do I know that feeling!

Quote

But God has been faithful and has taught me so much. I'm trusting Him to use it in my life as only He can. I'm ready to move forward to brighter days!

I think about you often, and how your faith has held you together. I've often wished I could have had the strength you have. I've tried, really have, but it doesn't comes easy for some of us.

Anyway, I wish for all the best for you! Thanks for being there for me, and I hope in some small way I was able to do the same for you. Take care!

Hey y'all!
It's great to hear some updates.

Petvet - I guess I didn't realize (or had forgotten) that you actually had a WEDDING DATE. That's wonderful!

Wallace - I think by "drop dead date" means you're going to kill her if things don't straighten out? We'll all be checking here on June 1st for an update. Somehow I have a feeling what you'll say.

Deja Vu - Great to hear from you. I was pretty impressed with your settlement involving the house & lien. Very smart move - did your lawyer think of that?

Leah - I hope you're doing well. What are your plans for the summer?

Me - Nothing much new...doing some yard beautification projects <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

EC, Trusting , anyone else - post when you can!

Hey All,

Quick update:

My Son and oldest daughter were out having dinner along with my G/F and her three kids about two weeks ago.

My OD announced to everyone that my YD had been arrested about two weeks prior to that, for a DUI.

Well I learned this past Friday, that my YD is going to do a minimum of 7 days in Jail, lose her license for at least a year, Community service, plus probation, as well as having to attend alcohol rehabilitation.

Maybe this is what she needed to have happen, to hopefully straighten her out. She dropped out of College since I cut off all funding for her, and she is hanging around a very bad crowd of people... so she is not doing very well.

I kept her in line while she was living at home as long as I could, but it got to the point, where I couldn't stand watching her throw it all away any longer.

Regarding my June 1st deadline... I'm not going to make it.

I like being single now, and I'm not sure if I could go through another marriage again. The first one was so bad, I think I developed commitment issues over the whole thing.

Needless to say... I have a brand new house I could move into, already completely furnished and landscaped that my G/F went out and bought without any input from me... and all I have to do is marry her... sell or rent my house that I'm still living in. Life is so easy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She is a good person, and I do love her... just not enough to get married at this point. We will probably break up in July, once her and I come to terms that I can't go through with it.

Hope everyone is doing well... I'll be in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Quote

Deja Vu - Great to hear from you. I was pretty impressed with your settlement involving the house & lien. Very smart move - did your lawyer think of that?

My lawyer and the mediator came up with that. The latest is I got a snotty e-mail from XH telling me I should pay HIM lots of money because he got the short end of the deal. In the same sentence that he was asking me to give up some $$ to him, he was blasting me for being uncaring, insensitive, etc. Interesting way to treat someone from whom you want a favor.

The reason he wanted the favor is because he has sold the house. In December he insisted he couldn't sell without me giving up my lien, now miraculously he has somehow managed to pull it off without that, and so in theory I will be getting some $$ later this month. I will still not have gotten back my prenup investment, but I will never have reason to talk to him again and the whole drama will finally be done.

Quote

Well I learned this past Friday, that my YD is going to do a minimum of 7 days in Jail, lose her license for at least a year, Community service, plus probation, as well as having to attend alcohol rehabilitation

I kept her in line while she was living at home as long as I could, but it got to the point, where I couldn't stand watching her throw it all away any longer..

Tough deal. Good for you for staying strong about this and letting her own up to her responsibility. 'Cuz hard as it is, she has to learn for herself.

Quote

Regarding my June 1st deadline... I'm not going to make it.

I like being single now, and I'm not sure if I could go through another marriage again. The first one was so bad, I think I developed commitment issues over the whole thing.

I hear you and feel the same way. Maybe it gets better, maybe not. But, trust your instincts cuz they are usually right for you.

Quote

Needless to say... I have a brand new house I could move into, already completely furnished and landscaped that my G/F went out and bought without any input from me... and all I have to do is marry her... sell or rent my house that I'm still living in. Life is so easy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Everytime you write about this, I'm struck by your mentioning the lack of input from you on this house. This issue sticks with you big time. I really think this is huge for you -- that someone who wants to be your partner would not partner with you on such a major decision. Perhaps a red flag which is causing you to think it's based on your past experience, when maybe the current GF isn't right for you in an important way. FYI - I would feel the same way, and would also be uncomfortable moving into someone else's "perfect" house that was all their personality and none of my own.

Quote

She is a good person, and I do love her... just not enough to get married at this point. We will probably break up in July, once her and I come to terms that I can't go through with it.

Take care, Wallace. Whatever happens.

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - I'm sorry you're having to still go through stuff with your YD. Our jobs as parents never ends, does it? I'm guessing she's had other DUIs which contributed to this latest situation. Usually the court doesn't assign all those stipulations on the first arrest.

I TOTALLY agree with Deja Vu's assessment of your relationship and GF's home. Remember, this house is not the first time that no input was asked of you. Weren't there other things over the last few years? So why are you waiting until July to break up? Is there something special happening in the next 2 months?

I personally think it's OK to be single. It's not always fun (like, at Christmas) but I think I'm doing well. Of course, I could be deceiving myself too!

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I read an article in the paper last week about agility dog contests <--I know that's not the right word, but I'm sure it's what you do. I thought of you the entire time I read it. I hope you are doing well - is your ExH still doing agility dog work, too? Do you ever see him there?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Are your wedding plans going well? Will it be a big event or something smaller?

[color:"blue"] Leah2Be [/color] - Hope you're doing well. Are you making vacation plans? Will you have the girls most of the summer?

Hope [color:"blue"] everyone else [/color] is OK. Stop by sometime and check-in!

Hi all! Happy Mother's Day to the ladies of Tough Love.

Wallace: Darn Wallace! You are never going to get any peace.Your YD is in the clouds, and she will have to sleep in the bed she made. Your g/f is making your decision very easy.

Dejavu: I hate dealing with mediators. I think it's a waste of money especially if both parties have dug in. Hang tough.

Avondale: Where are you going for vacation? Have a large yard sale.

Me: All is going well. Buddy and I went to a remarriage workshop which reconfirm that remarraiges are tough, but we are determine to stick it out because we have to keep us as the priority. I guest the countdown has started to wedding day.

Later.

Hey All!

I thought I would give a quick update on my situation concerning my June 1st drop dead date.

As much as I have a bad feeling about all this... I'm going to move in with my G/F right after Father's Day on a trial basis and see how it goes.

This pretty much goes against everything that I know is right. She has been putting the pressure on me to the point where I really just want to get it over with. It will either work or it won't. So that's where I am at with this.

Any suggestions... is appreciated.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Quote

As much as I have a bad feeling about all this... I'm going to move in with my G/F right after Father's Day on a trial basis and see how it goes.

This pretty much goes against everything that I know is right. She has been putting the pressure on me to the point where I really just want to get it over with. It will either work or it won't. So that's where I am at with this.

Any suggestions... is appreciated.

Wallace,

While I'm not a regular on your thread,why would you go ahead with this after how you feel? It's like knowing there are a bunch of sharks in the water but you dive in anyway.Doesn't make any sense to me.Do you feel that by doing it anyway you might have a different outcome than what is in your mind?

quote: by American Beauty

While I'm not a regular on your thread,why would you go ahead with this after how you feel? It's like knowing there are a bunch of sharks in the water but you dive in anyway.Doesn't make any sense to me.Do you feel that by doing it anyway you might have a different outcome than what is in your mind? [/quote]

Hi American Beauty,

You are more than welcome to post on this thread as well as anyone else here at MBer's.

Thank you for your insight, and to answer your question...

After being with my G/F for almost five years, it's time for me to try to make a go of it.

I have issues with a full time commitment. This happened after my first marriage ended. My G/F has been well aware of my stance on this, but wants me to proceed with it anyway.

I am hoping for a different outcome than what I'm expecting, and so I either go through with it, or we will probably end the relationship.

I don't think I'm marriage material anymore. I probably wasn't marriage material in my first marriage, but I gave it the best shot that I could. I thought I was doing all the right things, but in the end, it showed me that I wasn't cut out for it.

So the fact of the matter is... I am looking for a different outcome from what I'm expecting.

Thanks for the insight and question.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi again,

Thanks for the welcome.Although I don't usually post on this thread,I have followed it a long time,on the sidelines you might say. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can sympathize with having doubts about committment.I went through my exwh's A and then the D and I can honestly say I really have no desire to marry again right now.I might not ever.I like,no, love,being on my own and I don't know if that will ever change.One day perhaps though I would love to spend time with another man one day maybe just not in marriage.

I also gave my marriage the best I could and I even thought that as I got older,I got much better at it.I also thought I chose right.But alas,things didn't work out so well but,I do know that there really wasn't much I could do to save the marriage anyway.When only one is in it,you can't keep it afloat.

Poor marriage takes a beating doesn't it? I have seen people around here and elsewhere blame the marriage on so many things when in reality it is us all along.We make or break it.

Well,despite your reservations,I do hope things work out for the best.I will be reading along to see how it goes.

Incidentally,I loved the movie Braveheart.I thought Mel Gibson did a good portrayal.

You stay strong too and good luck.

Quote by; American Beauty

Poor marriage takes a beating doesn't it? I have seen people around here and elsewhere blame the marriage on so many things when in reality it is us all along.We make or break it.

______________________________________________________________

I have to agree with that.

I also feel the same way about entering into another marriage again. Maybe someday, but I don't see it on the horizon for me... and that is where the problem arises.

I'm still sitting on the fence on this whole thing... the more she keeps putting the pressure on me over it... the further away I get on the whole thing.

Thanks for the input.

"Braveheart", is one of my favorite movies, and Mel Gibson did do a good job of bringing that story to the screen.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

WALLACE , WALLACE, WaLlaCe, wallace...
You said:

Quote

As much as I have a bad feeling about all this... I'm going to move in with my G/F right after Father's Day on a trial basis and see how it goes.

Reasons not to do this :

1) You have a bad feeling about it - so why go against your own feelings? You're already negative (emotionally) in one of the most important decisions you will make. You have been negative for over THREE years now! Nothing has changed! Why do you think living together will change things?

2) Is this the example you want to set for your kids? They have had problems since their mom left - do you think they need more emotional baggage from this? Even if they're older, it's still a bad example from many aspects:
A) Goes against Biblical principles
B) Gives an incorrect picture of female/male relationships due to your GF being so strong-willed and manipulative

3) Second marriages (even common-law ones) are statistically not successful . You know the numbers! Sixty-seven percent of second marriages end in divorce. If you BOTH aren't totally on board in EVERY WAY then you are increasing those statistics from the start. And we who know you, know you aren't committed enough to overcome those odds.

4) If you are "at the point where you just want to get this over with" (your quote) then why not just end the relationship? You are being preposterous with this (<--said in love). Please take a break from this woman, and do the MB "no contact" thing. She is controlling you just as if she was the OW in a marriage....you can't stay away from her and need to do the "no contact" route. I know your city is big enough to hold both of you without much awkwardness if you were to break it off. You have the backbone to do it - look how you survived after your W left. Do you just want to wallow in misery by being with her?

The above comments were my initial, gut reaction...typed quickly while at work. I could think of more reasons if I had more time. I am just dumbfounded that you would proceed into any type of further faux-commitment with her based on ALL the reservations and concerns you've had from the beginning. And you know you've had them from the beginning. Do I need to get [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] or [color:"blue"]Leah [/color] to help me go through the archives to find ALL your comments? Come on Wallace, brother - friend, please don't do this! I don't want to see you hurt any further :-(

[/quote]Do I need to get [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] or [color:"blue"]Leah [/color] to help me go through the archives to find ALL your comments? Come on Wallace, brother - friend, please don't do this! I don't want to see you hurt any further :-( [/quote]

OK, I'm rising to the challenge - Wallace, Avondale is right. I'll add that your bad feeling will only grow if things go wrong. It will be SO hard to move out once you've moved in.

"Getting it over with" isn't what people say when they are in love and want to spend their lives with someone. I honestly don't know why you stay in the relationship at all - I can't remember reading anything you've said positive about it. If there is, let's hear it. I challenge you. Tell us why we are [color:"red"]WRONG [/color] about this, and why you [color:"red"]SHOULD[/color] move in with her.

UPDATE from Deja Vu:

Two weeks ago I finally got $$ from the sale of my ex's house. Not alot, but all there is going to be. That same week I went to a class to write your own will, and all that's left now is to change a few of my beneficiaries.

And, I paid off my lawyer.

However, my elation vanished today, when I was told at work that my job is not being renewed (I have an annually renewable contract) - so I'm out of a job next winter. They thankfully gave me a long notice - but that might be more of a burden than a blessing. Anyway... so much for finally being able to get on with my life!

Hi Avondale and Deja Vu,

What a mess I have going here!

I have nobody really to blame but myself.

You and Deja Vu are right, and there are no exceptions to be taken, because you have all hit the nail right on the head.

It's not that I don't want to some day settle down with her. I just can't do it right now. I'm not mentally ready for a full time marriage or relationship. I haven't changed my stance on this.

She's a good person, and I care for her, but I'm just not ready to take the plunge at this time.

This situation has disaster written all over it. No one wants to be pressured to do something that there not ready for... but I damned if I don't do something, and I'm damned if I do.

It's my fault for letting it go on as long as it did... and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

What a mess!

Deja Vu...

I'm sorry to hear that your going to be out of a job. We are really slow where I work as well. I might be right with you if it keeps up.

I guess the economy isn't as good as the have been saying.

Do you have enough money put aside while your looking for a new job?

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Quote

This situation has disaster written all over it. No one wants to be pressured to do something that there not ready for... but I damned if I don't do something, and I'm damned if I do.

Wallace,

It's precisely this kind of situation,where you have 2 difficult options, that it's critical you not forgo your inner core beliefs,values and feelings to please someone else.

You CAN fix this although it may hurt your GF.BE HONEST ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS.You really aren't doing her any favor either by fooling yourself and making her think it's ok with you when it's not.

If nothing else,you would be living your life with honesty and integrity and no one can take that from you no matter how things transpire.You are a long time MB'er.You know what you need to do.

Hi American Beauty,

That's good advice you gave there, which I am going to go ahead and follow.

I have a call into her now... and when she returns my call, I'm going to tell her how I truly feel about this whole thing.

Thanks for the advice!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Quote

I'm sorry it's come to this for you Wallace. But, you are strong enough and wise enough to do what you need to do.

Quote

She's a good person, and I care for her, but I'm just not ready to take the plunge at this time.

I'm trying to remember if I've ever heard you say you LOVE her... you have said you "care for" her, but do you LOVE her? Maybe that's part of the problem.

Quote

This situation has disaster written all over it. No one wants to be pressured to do something that there not ready for... but I damned if I don't do something, and I'm damned if I do.

Maybe not - if she is the person you hope she is, she'll understand this. Even if she isn't willing to wait for you, she shouldn't "damn" you for it.

Quote

Deja Vu...

I'm sorry to hear that your going to be out of a job. We are really slow where I work as well. I might be right with you if it keeps up.

I guess the economy isn't as good as the have been saying.

Do you have enough money put aside while your looking for a new job?

I have only a small amount I got from the sale of the house - AFTER paying my lawyer. I have some time, and am pursuing all the financial avenues to see what I can do.

You know what the worst part is? I have spent 3 years in limbo, not knowing if I was going to get enough to pay my lawyer, not knowing if my $45K in medical bills would be paid. Then finally everything gets settled, and I finally get some $$. Not even 2 weeks later, I lose my job - and I'm really mad about it. I've been waiting all this time to be able to make some proactive plans for my life, and can I do that now? NO! Sure enough I'm back in limbo land again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] ,
I think [color:"blue"] AB [/color] and [color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] said it all - and I hope you will follow the advice all three of us gave to break up with your GF. Or at least tell her that you're not ready for that level of commitment. Have you spoken to her yet? Let us know how it goes.
[color:"blue"]
Deja Vu [/color] - I know how you feel about being in limbo! I'm so thankful, however, that your financial things got settled BEFORE you got the notification of your job ending. Your level of limboness is less than before! How is your health these days?
Maybe you should move south and start a dog training center. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Wallace,

How are you doing out there? Just wondering. Hope you're staying strong~

[color:"red"] Happy belated Father's Day to all the TL guys! [/color]

[color:"blue"] Wallace, [/color] how are things going with your GF?

Hey all!

Sorry it has taken me so long to post back. Work and my personal life have been real busy here lately.

My G/F and I are on the verge of breaking up at this point, because I have refused to move in. So that situation is way up in the air and ongoing.

I'm not sure how this is all going to shake out, but it won't be the first time I've broken up with someone.

Avondale...

TY for the belated Father's day. I had a very nice one. Nothing too exciting... it was just right.

Deja Vu...

Sorry to hear that your life is still up in Limbo.

I think mine has been up there for the past five years as well... I just didn't realize it. Just take it a day at a time, and deal with each issue as it comes. I've found that is the best way to approach these type of situations.

American Beauty...

I'm doing so-so as far as my personal life is concerned. It's been better of course. Right now, I'm in the process of unraveling this mess that I've created. I'm not sure how it is all going to lay out... but I'm sure I'll find out in due time.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Wallace,

I am glad you have stuck with your feelings on this one.I am sure it is hard and things are tough right now but honesty is the best deal.You are giving your GF all the info she needs to make informed decisions about *her life.

If you aren't honest with people,and in this case you just might have been giving her the impression you were more ready and involved than you really were,then they are making their own decisions based on false information and that can lead to disaster down the road.

You're doing the right thing as painful as it may be.

Keep us posted~

Hi all!

Welcome American Beauty. I'm glad you are here.

Wallace: If your better judgement tells you not to do something, don't do it. You are a seasoned professional as well as most of us in bad relationships. We learn from our experiences and others as to what works and what doesn't work.Don't lower your morals in order to accommodate someone else's vice's. If you have commitment issues, then just date folks casually and let it be known that you don't want anything serious. I would say that all of us on this site could throw in the towel and give up on marriage, but we have to take stock of our roles in the failures as well as our partners and learn from those mistakes and errors and move on, but we must maintain our integrity and morals.

Me: All is well. September 15th is coming fast.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] , it is GREAT to hear from you! Both [color:"red"] you [/color] and [color:"red"]AB [/color] gave Wallace some excellent advice. I'm glad things are going well for you. Are things falling into place for your wedding?

[color:"blue"] Wallace, [/color] how are things? Are you still "in process" of breaking up? Or did you change your mind again? I hope not. You are making it harder by not admitting your ambivilance to yourself and to GF. (And if you have told her, she's purposefully making it more difficult (i.e., DISRESPECTFUL {a MB term}) on YOU by not letting go either.)

Hey All,

Sorry it took me so long to post back... but I just got back from a much needed vacation.

Well to make a long story short concerning myself and my G/F... I broke up with her this morning.

After a lot of thought and what everyone was stating... I just couldn't go through with it, and rather than prolong the agony of the whole thing any longer... I decided to call it a day.

I'm going to take a break for a little while and just not date anyone else. I need to clear my head and just enjoy life.

The next time I start dating someone for any length of time... I'm going to make it abundantly clear... that I'm not interested in any serious relationships. If they can't deal with that... then I'll be moving on.

Petvet...

Congratulations!!!

At least your doing well by the sounds of everything... no drama to deal with, which is always a good thing.

Looks like you are able to commit to someone for the long term. I'm still having issues in that area.

Thanks everyone for the advice... it is appreciated. I'll keep everyone posted as to my next adventure, whenever I decide I want some drama back into my life.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Quote

Welcome American Beauty. I'm glad you are here.

Thank you Petvet.I still feel a bit like an intruder but I'm glad to be welcomed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

wallace,

I am sorry for what you are going through.I am sure it was difficult yet necessary based on how you were feeling.When you talk about agony,it really doesn't seem that it was a healthy situation.Getting married again is a serious step.

I don't think that I will ever remarry although never say never right? I feel like my marriage was supposed to be "it" for life.Right now I can't imagine sharing that with anyone again.But I also like my life as it is now.My heart is healthy and safe.If I meet someone again I will definitely proceed with caution,as they say.

Take good care of yourself.

Hi American Beauty,

Don't feel like your intruding, as you are most welcome to post in this thread, and I'm glad your here. In fact this thread is open for anyone to post in... as it is an open MBer
thread to all who would like to post here.

Quote by American Beauty:

I don't think that I will ever remarry although never say never right? I feel like my marriage was supposed to be "it" for life.Right now I can't imagine sharing that with anyone again.
____________________________________________________________

I couldn't agree more with what you posted. I gave it a try, and thought, just maybe I could do this. But as time went on... and many red flags later, which I chose to ignore at the time... it just became apparent, that this wasn't going to work out.

Add in the constant "let's get married or at least you could do is move in with me" and it started working me to the point that I just lost all interest in the relationship.

So, it's time to take a break and move on. When I do decide to date again, I'm going to be right up front that this is not intended to be a serious relationship. That way... there is no preconceived ideas that they may have.

I'm getting pretty good at shaking situations like this off, and chalking it up as just another experience in which to learn from.

Thanks for the input, and stay in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi, how is everyone doing?
[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - were you able to make the break?
[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - I hope you're staying cool. How are your wedding plans going?
[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Have you found another job, or are you making other plans for employment?
[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - I hope you're doing well. Post or call when you can.

[color:"blue"] Trusting,EC, American Beauty [/color] - I hope you're all enjoying a wonderful summer.

Hi All,

Finally had a moment to check in and see what's going on.

avondale...

I did make the break from my G/F. About a week went by... and she called me up, and decided that she would back off of the moving in/getting married arrangement.

Since we have got back together... everything seems to be o.k., but who really knows? I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and see what happens.

Well, I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Just popped in to say hi Wallace. You may not remember me as I have not been here since 2003 or early 2004. We emailed each other for a while. Anyway, I haven't been here for a long time and I was just surfing the net and decided to check and see if you were still around... and you were. Some other names look familiar also. Short update on my situation with Hubby. Things could not be better. Miracles do happen, we are proof! Even though when hubby found this site and read my posts he was very angry with me but little does he know this site and what I read on here was what convinced me to try again. I am so glad I did. He has changed and I have changed but we have the best relationship ever. It's been over five years and we have barely had so much as an argument. Life is GOOD!
Debbie~

Hello everyone!

Freeindeed.....Good news is ALWAYS good to here. Can't say that I remember that name but Wallace and the others here are great people. Glad to know that there are marriages that can continue.

Avondale, Wallace, PetVet, Leah....hope each of you are doing well.

The the others and the new ones, *waves*

Hey All!

Debbie...

Of course I remember! You helped me so much as well as everyone else on the Tough Love thread... how could I not remember.

I am so glad to hear that you and your husband are doing so well. You are truly a success story here at MBers. You should post to everyone when you get time, how you were able to save your marriage. It is a remarkable story.

Stay in touch when you have time, and keep us updated.

God truly blessed you, and I am so pleased to hear how well your doing.

Keep up the good work!

Trusting Him...

Good to hear from you!

How are you doing?

I hope things are going well for you.

Give us an update on how everything is going when you can.

Petvet, avondale, Leah, and anyone else who I know I missed...

Let us know how you are doing.

Me...

I'm doing well, and so is my family, as well as my G/F.

Nothing exciting really happening... so for me that's a good thing.

Hope everyone is well and doing good.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Wallace: I glad that everything is going well including with your g/f.

Avondale: How are you doing?

Everyone else I missed: hello!

Me: Well, I'm getting married this Saturday, September 15th. We are having a full fledge Catholic wedding mass with all the trimmings. The wedding is small but some how got out of control. We are expecting 75 folks to our reception. I never realized how much this wedding thing costed. I guest I would not know since I did not pay for the first one. Things are going good. I'm feeling good, but after going through all the stuff from the first one, there is this area of doubt in the back of your mind. I know how someone like Wallace can get discourage, but I believe in marriage. I will be in touch. I'm not going away. I want to thank everyone especially folks like Wallace, Avondale, and many other folks who have passed through since I opened this thread. Can anyone tell me how I can set up this thread to notify me by email when someone posts?

Take care.

Later.

Hey (((Petvet)))
I logged on cuz I knew it was close to your big WEDDING DAY. I'm so very happy for you! You deserve all the happiness that this day can and will bring. Learn from the past and look to the future.

I'm not sure if you can get notifications from this thread but maybe you can, since you're the original poster. (Or was it Trusting Him, who started this newer version of your original post?) Just check back every month or so. We all realize that we have a lot going on. Most everyone has my email and can get me directly - I can give it to you too if you want.

Meanwhile, enjoy your new WIFE. May the Lord bless you both! We'll be thinking of you Saturday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Avondale. Learning from the past has been very important to me. It's kinda scary, but I think I am doing the right thing. I'll stay in touch.

Hello to everyone else.

Later.

Hey All,

Petvet...

I knew you were getting married right about now, but wasn't real sure if it was this close.

WOW!!!

Your getting married tomorrow?

I'll bet you are a little nervous. I would be scared to death (that's because I've got commitment issues).

I'll have to start clanging the Glass and have a toast for the both of you.

I wish both you and your new Bride all the best... and may the Lord bless your marriage, and bless you both.

Congratulations Petvet!

I'm not sure if you can have your email flagged every time someone posts on this thread... that's a good question.

I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"red"] YES - [/color] you can have e-mails automatically sent to you from any thread.

Here's how:

1. Go to your profile (from "My Home" link at the top of this forum).

2. Select this feature - "Subscribe / Unsubscribe from receiving forum posts by email, change message notifications, etc." - there are several options within this feature. You can set the one to receive e-mail notifications to your favorite posts = "YES".

3. Next, go to the forum you want to get e-mails from and at the very bottom, where it says "Favorite topic! (toggle) you click on that to turn it into a favorite topic. [color:"red"] [/color] [color:"red"] [/color]

HI ALL,

PETVET, Congratulations!!!! I'm so happy and excited for you and your new wife. I pray that God will bless you with many wonderful years together!

WALLACE, I'm glad to hear that you and your G/F are doing well. I'm also glad you decided not to marry or move in with her. Based on where you've been, that seems to be a very wise choice.

DEJA VU, It's always good to hear from you and get the updates on what's taking place in your life. Thank you for the periodic e-mails. How has the search for a job been going? It's good you've had time to work on that. I hope you are doing well and enjoying peace and joy in your life. It's so good that the negotiations and hassels of divorce are behind you.

AVONDALE, I hope you too are doing well. I've missed hearing from you and have meant to get in touch. Have you got your whole house cleaned out and in order? That is something I really need to do also.

EVERYONE ELSE, I'm always happy to see others post. Welcome to American Beauty. Hi to TRUSTING HIM and anyone else I might have missed.

ME: The girls and I had a wonderful summer. We went on a "real" vacation to the beach just the four of us. That was a new experience because we've always visited with family prior to this summer. The girls are now back in school busy with their studies and sports.

The big news is that I've met someone very, very special. He is a wonderful Christian man that I met through e-harmony in July. It is currently a long distance relationship but we've been blessed to be able to see each other quite a bit. We've had hours and hours of conversation via the phone.

He and I have enjoyed a tremendous connection on so many levels. It just seems to be something that God has put together. He has truly been an instrument of God's love and grace in my life. We have grown very close in the time that we've known each other and I'm looking forward to all that God might have in our future.

It is so nice to be able to post something positive after so many years of sad posts... God has so blessed and is in the business of restoring and bringing joy back into our lives. That is my prayer and hope for each of you.

I'll try to do better about popping in every now and then to check in and keep updated. Take care everyone. God bless!

[color:"red"] Leah, [/color] I'm not too surprised at your new BF. I think you deserve a godly and perfect relationship which is something you may not have had (at least, not for very long). How are the kids doing with all the new adjustments?

[color:"red"] Deja Vu [/color] - thanks for the instructions! I tried it and I guess we'll know it works if I'm notified about this post.

[color:"red"] Petvet [/color] - How's marriage? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Trusting [/color] - I hope you're doing well.

[color:"red"]Wallace [/color] - no news is good news, ya know?

[color:"red"] Me [/color] - I got a cat - not for company, but for the chipmunks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Hello [/color] to everyone else

Hi all,

Well, I did it. Everything is going fine so far. I take things one day at a time.

Avondale: I hope all is well. I can believe you have hired an assassin to get rid of those cute little chipmunks.

Wallace: Keep doing what you do.

DeJaVu: I hope you can be happy and move forward. It takes time.

Leah: I'm glad you have found someone to make you happy.

Everyonr else: Take care.

Later. Happy Thanksgiving.

Hey everyone!

I thought I would drop in and wish everyone a "Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a Happy New Year".

It's been a busy year, and boy did it go by fast.

I'm still with my girlfriend, but that's a week by week thing.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi everyone, thought I'd drop by on Christmas to see how everyone is doing.

Wallace, Petvet, Avondale, Leah, Trusting, anyone else I missed -- I wish you all a wonderful holiday season, and a great new year.

Me: A few big things have happened:

* I received a non-renewal notice at work, so my current job ends March 31. I've been looking, got one offer that wasn't acceptable financially, and it's been rather slow during the holiday season. Sometimes I panic about being out of work, other times I feel like I'll find something really great and it will be fine.

* I lost one of my dogs at age 3-1/2, to severe epilepsy. I had to put him down when his seizures were no longer being controlled by meds and he has lost motor skills. It was quite the emotional roller coaster with seizures constantly, me not sleeping well and rarely through the whole night, and lots of medical issues to wrestle with. It's hard to put a young dog to sleep, and even harder to know when quality of life is gone.

* I got a replacement puppy in October - he's doing great, but with two puppies this year, neither of which were planned, I've got my hands full. I now have 4 dogs - one old, one blind, and the two puppies.

* I finally finished my home remodeling projects last week! It looks really nice in here now, but I must admit the endless construction activity has tired me of doing more remodeling. Even though I have more projects lined up that I hope I will be able to do in the next couple of years.

* I have finally decided to abandon my PhD program. I have a couple of incompletes to deal with, then my coursework is done. I'm going to file the official "plan" showing that my coursework was completed, but that's all. I just don't have the time, or quite frankly the interest, in doing all that work anymore.

I still have next to no interest in a new relationship. I have a few close friends, my family, my dogs, and am busy nearly every night of the week. I don't feel like I have room in my life, or my heart, for a romantic relationship. At least not now, and quite likely never.

I still have bouts with depression. Especially this time of year.

Cheers!

Hi Everyone,
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color] it is great to hear your update. I am sorry to hear about what you've had to go through with the dogs and your PhD. I hope those puppies will be around a long time. I know what you mean about "no interest in a new relationship". That's where I am at, also.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] , I'm glad you checked in too. So not much new in your relationship, either....how are your daughters doing?

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] , this is your first Christmas/New Years as a newly HAPPILY married man. I trust things are going well at your house - are the kids adjusting well?

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] , have you remarried? Somehow I would not be surprised. After not having a healthy marriage for so long, the possibility of having a good one probably appeals more to you than me. (Since my marriage was good for 20+ years!) How did the kids do this Christmas? Is your ex behaving himself these days?

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] , I hope you did OK this holiday also. How did you stay busy?

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - It was a different type of holiday and not one I care to do again. There is something about not acknowledging the actual day (we had our family events & dinners prior to the 25th) that kind of bummed me out. Of course I got invited other places but we all know how that isn't fun...

~~~ [color:"red"] I hope 2008 brings many blessings to each and every one of the Tough Love gang! [/color] ~~~

Hello everyone,

Haven’t posted in a while. Glad to see everyone progressing along. Just want to wish everyone a Happy New Year! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi all! I intended on checking in right before the holidays but never got to it.

Wallace: I'm glad you are doing fine and taking things with the g/f day by day. Smart man.

Dejavu: Sorry to hear about your dog. Losing a dog or pet can be like losing a close love one from the human kind. Take your time getting back into a relationship. It will come in time. As far as the job is concern, just bust your butt looking under every rock. You may have to take something that you don't want i order to get what you want later. Keep on keeping on.

EC: It was good to hear from you again.

Avindale: Sweetheart, just do your own thing. Granted you cannot forget about the past but you can move forward. I have always told you that traveling may be your best friend for now. You may be better off getting away. Granted I know it cost money but getting away can be the next state over.

Me: Well, I'm still married after four months. Amazing ah! Is the kids are taking us for a loop. We are going to make it work. Wife and I knew what we were getting into.

Later.

hie guys, l hope u dont mind me joining here.l have read quite a lot on this thread and l have to say l like how u all support each other.here is my story/life
sorry a bit long. first time posting but have been reading around and think you guys might shed some light into this.l will try to be short.married 2004. a year later my husband suddenly had a change of heart and moves out.his reasons being lam not happy and l need time out, no argument or anything.
anyways, l talked him into working things out and he came back.all was peferct and well until dec 2005.
l had a miscarriage in october.lt was a hard time for us but l did notice when l was pregnant he wasnt that excited to begin with and it was his idea to start a familly.we seem to be supportin each other through all this.ln dec he asked me if we can go out and eat out.l was very relieved coz l was worried that he might not deal with it well.l guess l was completely wrong.
one note, we dated for 4 yrs b4 marriage and had ups and downs but he had never sat me down to tell me like this ''l dont feel anymore love for you and lam not sure l did. u dont make my heart jump when l see u but l like u and l cant help how l feel.'' he went on mentioning that he doesnt have the love like for example how his bro misses his wife and stuff.he feels that lf l walk away right now he wont feel any lose.l was shocked, beyond shocked l couldnt even say a word then.l left and had the day to myself and to think. l did not beg him this time, he also told me he wants to try but he thought l should know how he feels.
l wrote hime a letter telling him that this has been a shock to me but lam willing to give it a try also and see how we can get the love to survive in this marriage.fine so l thought! l suggested we take a trip and have time to relax since we both work a lot.the day b4 he bail out saying he couldnt get anybody to take his shift and that l shoul go and not waste the ticket and visit my sister.he encouraged me and drove me to the airport and kissed me goodbye and told me he will miss me.
l came back 2days later to a half empty house.apparently he moved out while l was gone.took evrything that belonged to him,clean the place and left the keys. he basically ran away.l was devasted and l have never been so heart broken in my life. so much pain.lt will be 1 yr next week and we have maintained some kind of friendship and l do depend on him for a ride to work from time to time.nothing beyond friendship though he has made advances without willing to be with me.lam afraid to ask were we are going from here, lam afraid of his answer. see, l am still in love with him.but if l let him come back, the cycle might just go around again.
l want him to be the one saying he wants to or not but so far he hasnt given me a clue.where do l go from here?should l just let him be.

Edited by babyblue (01/13/08 10:43 PM)

Hi babyblue
Welcome to Marriage Builders! This forum is a great place to find support, and I hope you are able to utilize it. You are welcome to post here on the Tough Love thread but to be honest, it is kind of retired. None of us check it regularly and we just post every once in a while.

I suggest that you post this in one of the other forums but make a few changes to get people's attention. When one is writing the first post it requires background details, just like you gave. But it's difficult to read when all the sentences run together and there aren't a lot of capital letters, paragraph spacing, etc. Otherwise, it gives the appearance of being overwhelming to the reader. If you were to make those slight updates to your post, and then re-post it again as it's own thread, I think you'd get some feedback, and I would be glad to post a response too. I just don't think you'd get much input if it stays on this thread since this isn't one that has much traffic.

You might also want to read the link below for pointers about posting. I look forward to seeing your new post!

Hey Everyone,

It's been awhile since I posted, and I thought about everyone and decided to see what if anything was happening on the "Tough Love" thread.

Deja Vu...

I'm sorry to hear about your Dog. Losing your pet like that is very difficult. They are just like one of the family as well, and when you take the steps that you had to... it becomes a very emotional time. It sounds like it was time, and you did the right thing.

I'm sorry to hear about your PhD. Hopefully you will be able to resume getting it after you recharge your batteries a bit. You have had quite a bit going on.

How are you making out now?

Are you still depressed?

Let us know how your making out, as it can become very lonely for you when your feeling the way you have been feeling.

Avondale...

I'm sorry to hear that your Christmas and Holiday were not up to expectations. I really struggle with the Holidays, even now, after almost what? Six years? Has it been that long?

I can understand you not wanting to get into another relationship. They can become more of a detriment, if your not ready for one. Sometimes I think I should have waited and allowed myself sometime to heal. But I'm hanging in there... and I'm still with my G/F. I'm hanging by my toes with our relationship, because I won't commit to marriage. I've come to find out that I have commitment issues. : )

Petvet came up with a good idea... do some traveling with some friends if you can. That gets the blood to flowing.

Hope your doing well, and it's always good to hear from you as well as everyone else.

EC...

My man!

Long time no post! How are you making out?

What have you been doing with yourself?

I would really like to hear from you, and to hear how you are making out. So if you get a chance let us all know.

Petvet...

How are you making out with? Is your marriage going well?

I hope you and your spouse are doing good.

How does it feel being married again? The reason why I ask, is I'm scared to death to try it again, so I need to hear some good positive things from you.

babyblue...

It has been awhile since you posted. I agree with what avondale has stated to you.

One bit of advice I would give you... is don't waste your time with this guy, he's going to be even more trouble for you if you hang around him.

You sound like your still young, so go out and find yourself a nice decent man out there. They are out there... you just have to look real hard for one and be patient. You will probably find someone when you least expect it.

Leah, Trusting him, and anyone else I might have missed out there. I hope your all doing well, and everything is going well for you. When you get time, let us know how your making out.

Me...

My birthday is this Friday, and my Brother and Father are coming into town to celebrate my birthday with me and my kids and G/F.

I'll be 38 this year! lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll let you all know if my Birthday wish comes true this year. Not sure what it is, but I'll think of something.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone, [color:"blue"] [/color]

It's always good to come back to this thread and catch up with old friends. I just wanted to share my happy news...I'm engaged and will be getting married on June 14. God has been so good in blessing me with this terrific guy!He's both strong and loving...a wonderful combination! It's been great being with someone who actually wants to be with me...wow, what a novel idea for a relationship! ;-) [color:"blue"] [/color]

Overall,the girls are doing well. The youngest child is having a bit of a challenging time in accepting things. She's always had me all to herself for all her life and doesn't accept change well. But, she's getting better with time. Between us both we have six children. Five of them will be in the wedding - Hopefully six if YD changes her mind. Future H kids are all grown and out of the house, so we won't be the Brady Bunch. [color:"blue"] [/color]

Hope all of you are doing well. God bless! [color:"blue"] [/color]

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] , congratulations! You deserve a wonderful marriage and I hope this fella will make that happen. I'm sure your YD will come around. Did your exH have any reaction to the news?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] , I can't believe that Leah beat you to the altar. Maybe all that birthday cake you ate slowed you down. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hello to [color:"blue"] everyone else [/color] - hope things are well for you all!

Hey All!

Long time no talk.

How is everyone doing?

Leah...

Congrats on getting married in June. That's not very far from now.

Are you getting nervous? I know I would be... that's why I'm still not married. Scares me to death.

First Petvet getting married, and now you.

I wish you nothing but blessings and best wishes.

Keep us informed as to how your wedding was.

Avondale...

How are you doing?

Are you planning on getting married too?

Hope everything is well with you.

Petvet...

So how are you and the Mrs. doing?

I figure if you and Leah can make marriage work again... I might think about getting married again someday.

Me...

I'm enjoying just being single. I'm still with my G/F, after 5-1/2 years and counting. So I'm doing O.K.. She still wants to get married, but she has stopped pressuring me on it. It's getting a little expensive with her in her new home, and me still in my house.

Well I have to cut it short, as I'm at work, and I still have a few things to wrap up for today.

Hope everyone is doing well that I might have missed.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all,

It's me again. Don't shoot me. I have not forgotten about you guys.

Me: Everything is going quite well. We knew that blending these the families would not be a walk in the park and it isn't, but I am glad that I chose to try this marriage thing again. I see that the Harley's have change the page again. I tried to get on last month and could not find my password.

Wallace: Hope all is well.

Avondale: What's up?

Leah: ?????

DID I READ THAT SOMEONE IS GETTING MARRIED????????????????????

Later.

*quietly sneaks into the forum to see what's going on*

Wow! You all are still here! Woot! And my name is still here being mentioned, imagine that. I assumed that being away so long I would have dribbled off the pages.

I have not had time to go back and really read but:

Leah2b - Congratulations on the new BF

PetVet - Congratulation on the marriage, you ARE MUCH braver than I

Wallace - Like you, I grown accustomed to being single. Unlike you there is no girlfriend in the picture. Ha! How could there be! The oldest daughter will be 17 in July and just last week her words to me were "Daddy, the only woman you need in your life is me!" And we all know what happens when we make a woman mad. I think I'll just stay single.

Only 38! I sure wish I could go back to 38. Maybe some of this gray hair would go away.

Deja Vu - I am so sorry to hear about your dog. I do know the feeling as just this past weekend I had to bury my Dad's best friend of 14 years. She had gotten really old and weak, to the point of not being able to get around. It was a sad moment.

EC - God to see your post. It sounds as if you've been away as long as me. Hope things are going well for you.

Avondale - What can I say. It appears that you are still the same. A HUGE encouragement to all the others here. I briefly saw where you asked about Christmas and I can say it went well. There are still a few times that a memory slips in but for the most part we have all settled into our routines pretty good.

I hope and pray tht all is well with you.

ME - What can I say. With each passing year I get a bit older, a bit wiser and a bit more comfortable with being single. As it stands right now I have no intentions of ever entering into another serious relationship. Not that I do not miss it, it just seems that life right now is much less complicated.

Except for when you have to deal with the formers.

The oldest daughter moved her Church Membership to another Church. This is good and she is now on fire and has been for well over a year now in her relationship with Christ. This has also caused problems between her and her Mother.

Case in point, just last week she approached her Mother about the sleeping and drinking habits of Mom's BF. Yes, Mom does spend weekends with him. Actually she spends the majority of her free time with him. She now progressed to the point of him staying at their house on occasion. (No, I do not agree with this but we are working om making changes).

Any who's, when the OD expressed her disappointment in Mom choice of BF and his drinking Mom replied "But your Daddy drinks when he does not have you all with him". /laughter We drank a bottle of wine between us on our honeymoon, we each had a glass of wine on out 10th anniversary and I think I drank 1 beer with our neighbor after we finished yard work one day. So the lat time I had something to drink was probably 8 yeas ago, maybe longer. Of course that was what OD told her Mom.

When she mentioned that she and her BF were setting a bad example for her and her sibblings by sleeping with her BF her reply was "Well, thee are a lot of things that yu do not know about your Daddy".

Both OD and Son asked that I speak to their Mom about this as our son says that is the primary reason he hurts so much on Monday mornings. He says he's all stressed out from watching his Mom and knowing what she is doing. (Yes he's still pretty sick, still has major digestive problems and has just been given a prescription for Lexapro)

Needless to say after a wonderful weekend with the children I returned them to her house Sunday Morning as requested so they could attend Church with her for Mother's Day, only to find her not there, BF in her bed and his kids in the children's room. I did call her that evening to discuss, not her habits with BF but why she feels it neessary to bash Daddy when asked questions by her daughter. Her only reply was that "She hit a nerve" and "She just pushed the wrong buttons".

OK, we've been divorced for 5 yeas. What is going on in this woman's life that after 5 years of me not being there, when "a nerve is hit" or "the wrong buttons are pushed" she lashes out at me? I did ask her if OD had in any way made a direct comparison between me and her BF and she said that I was never mentioned. Ack! That makes it even worse. I might be able to understand if OD had said "Daddy does nto do.....Daddy does not....." but there was none of that.

So after all that long rambling for being gone for so long....I am currently looking for a job back where they live since both OD and son have said that as soon as I get there they are coming to stay with me.

Hey All,

Trusting Him...

I didn't see you sneak in the forum but I thought I heard some noise coming from this thread.

Wow! Your Ex has really got a messed up situation going on there based on what you posted.

If your Ex is anything like mine,(and she sounds like she is) you will always be the bad guy in her mind. It doesn't matter what you have done or didn't do... they have this perception in their mind about us, and there is very little you can do to change it at this point. They made their mind up about us five plus years ago, and that's why they are where they are.

With what she has going on in the house with your kids there to see this kind of behavior... you are on the right track by taking the proper steps to have them come and live with you. I would do everything in my power to remove them from that situation A.S.A.P..

It 's good to hear from you again... I was hoping you chime in eventually.

I clicked on the link to the "Original Tough Love Thread", to kind of go over what was going on during what I think is one of the best threads around, and it's not working.

If you get time... see if you can some how get that URL working again.

Good to hear from you... and stay in touch. We all miss you.

Petvet...

Glad to hear from you, and things are working out.

I know the part about the mixing of the families. That was the major reason why my GF and I decided to hold up on getting married. We thought it would of been easier for the kids to just finish what they were doing, and then we would revisit it at a later date. Well the later date came, and I settled into just being single again and liking it.

How are you coping with two families coming together all in all. I hope it works itself out in a positive manner.

Avondale...

How are you doing? Hopefully your well... so post something and let us know.

Leah...

It's almost that time! Are you getting nervous? I would be out of my mind.

Well I have to go back to work now... so everyone that I missed I hope you are all doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Originally Posted by Wallace

I clicked on the link to the "Original Tough Love Thread", to kind of go over what was going on during what I think is one of the best threads around, and it's not working.

If you get time... see if you can some how get that URL working again.

I *think* I found it again, although thee may be problems with it ....when you actually search for the thread it appears in several different forums. It *may* continue to function correctly.

As for our Ex's being alike....I just stay confused. For the most part I have stayed out of her life, only say or bring things up when the effects of her action have a negative impact on the children and even then I weigh it very carefully before I say anything, if I say anything at all.

I think I mentioned it before but after changing jobs my salary dropped dramatically but because of the fringes of the company I work for I was able to continue paying the original CS with no question asked. Although at times I've managed to stay current with CS while making 25k less than with the original court ordered CS. Still cover the insurance for the children and only in rare instances do I miss a weekend that belongs to me. (When I do it's usually because of lack of funds, I work 3 1.2 days for insurance and CS and the other day and a half belong to me :P )

The good part of that...I'm down to 6 years left and then it's all over! Woot!

So yes, if no ex bashing is the norm for me why...why...why after 5 years does she feel it's necessary to bring up Daddy in a conversation where he was never mentioned. AS she often tells me "you just need to get over me and get on with your life" it almost seems that she's one one who "needs" to get over something and get on with a life that does not include daddy bashing.

Hey all!

Trusting Him..

Your the man... you got the "Original Tough Love" thread back in play when you click on it!

I'm going to go back through some of that thread... just to see where we came from and where we are today. There is some pretty good reading and good advice in that thread IMHO.

In regards to our ex's bashing us. I think they do it in order to make them feel better about themselves and to build up their self esteem. You got to go pretty low to do some of the things that our ex's did. Any sane and/or rational person would most likely have a conscience and realize what they have done to their family. But most of them are so self obsessed with their own happiness at any and at all cost that they ignore how it may affect someone.

It's all about them! It will always be all about them, and they know it... and don't dare call them on it, or everyone will pay dearly for it.

Well I'm rambling as usual... so I will shut-up now and let you go.

Hope your doing well, keep in touch, and let us us know how your making out.

Deja-Vu...

How are you doing? Haven't heard anything from you lately.

I hope your well. Let us know when you get a chance.

Leah...

That big day is coming for you. Your getting married next week right?

Petvet, Avondale, EC, and everyone else I hope you are all doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone...It's me Leah2be. I tried several times to sign in under my original name but I couldn't get it to work then decided it might be time for a new name anyhow.

Although not without it's challenges,married life is going very well. My husband is wonderful! He continues to be so kind and strong...such a help and support in everyway! The only time there are conflicts it is usually in regard to my ex. He is still very much around. Yes, WALLACE and TRUSTING HIM, I can relate! Those type of ex's just have some very big issues and seem to always make life a challenge. My H is very strong, stable and consistent. He often finds himself in the unenviable position of trying to help me maintain boundaries with this guy. I am getting stronger but change doesn't happen overnight.

The wedding went very well. In fact, if you'd like to see a video clip of it, you can just e-mail me with your address and I'll send it to you. My youngest did come around and eventually decided to be in the wedding! It was a very happy day! I'm just so thankful to God for bringing this great guy in my life. I will continue to hope and pray for the same happiness for each of you!

Hi Leah!

I must be psychic or something... as I just now for the first time had a chance to check this board, and I see that you just posted something today. Who would of thought.

I would like to see the video of your wedding! I'll bet there are a lot of challenges. You know how much marriage scares me after everything I went through. It's interesting to see how everyone adapts to their new marriage. Who knows... I may just change my mind one of these days, and decide to give it another try.

Good to hear from you... keep us updated on things as they progress.

Let God bless your marriage and I'm glad that everything is going well.

One last thing... when you log in, you need to put your password in all caps. Maybe that's why you were having trouble logging in under your original name.

Hope everyone is doing well. Chime in and let us know how your doing when you get a chance.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Well congratulations then! And I am so happy that your new husband is wonderful. It's always nice to have someone help you enforce those boundaries and I'm glad he is there for you.

Oh! I love the new name so just keep using it, no need to go back and drag up old stuff with the old name.

Just a brief update on the son as I think I posted years ago the he was diagnosed with Chron's. He recently had an operation to remove about 2 feet of his lower intestine as it was no longer functioning. He has recovered quite well according to the Doctor as he was off pain medication within 1 day of the operation and back on solid foods within 2 days. Both the former wife and I were there for him but it was one night that she made a comment to the nurse where I really wanted to just knock her in the head to help her see the reality of what she said.

Our son was having a hard time with some of his medication before the surgery and she had called late to see if I could come down to Hospital and help him take it. After arriving and encouraging him and also sampling the medication along with him (that stuff that makes you run to the bathroom to ensure that your digestive system is empty

) the nurse came in to check on us. She commented that our son seemed to be doing a lot better and the former replied "Yes, his Daddy is here now and he always feels better when he's around" :twobyfour: Duh! OK so she admitted that son always feels better when I am around, that's a little positive there.

Oh well, he is doing better though and the Doctor did say that he expected to see a marked improvement on his recovery.

"HAPPY THANKSGIVING"

I hope everyone has a nice day tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hello I started to read Tough Love and the great advice about not crying, pleading etc.. but just letting go and letting the spouse believe he can be free now. My H wants to separate and we still leave together. The separation will happen in July when our kid will go to college. Five months ago, H told me he wanted to separate and since then i can't even describe the pain i am going thru. he is completely withdrawn, very depressed and very unhappy. I do not address the separation issue, do not LB and try and meet his EN. I am familiar with the MB principles and apply them daily as I read the Harley books. I read some of Leah2be (sunrisen08)'s postings, and i think i am in a similar situation Leah was a few years ago before she recovered her M. but i could not find her original posting so i do not know what her problem with her H was and how she behaved to win him back. However I see that now they are happy again together. So Leah or whomever can, could you please point me to your original thread. I am trying to apply the advice of leaving H alone. It works for about a week and then when i see that if i do not hug him he never does, if i do not kiss him he never does and if i do not start a conversation he never does...then i become desperate and start clinging, hugging and being pesky. what do i do? i stil have a few months ahead of me and I could try to win him back.

Hi Atena!

I'm sorry to hear about the problems your having in your marriage.

Here is the link to the original "Tough Love" thread.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=715889&fpart=1

It's a very long thread with lots of good advice in there by many people.

Hopefully you will find some information in this thread that you can apply to your situation.

I want to wish everyone a very "Merry Christmas", "Happy Holidays" and "Happy New Year" to everyone.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi everyone! I'm back again... dropping in to say hi and finding that Leah has gotten married again! WOW! How wonderful for you, even if I'm a bit late in hearing the news.

Wallace, still not married? don't blame you! I don't think I could get remarried, and the more time that passes the more I think that's true.

Avondale, Trusting, et al - hope all's well with you.

I'll try to do some back reading to catch up on everyone!

Me: Been a rocky year, as I got laid off in June 2007 (with a 9 month notice that was actually NOT a blessing but a curse) and started a new job in April of 2008. It's OK, I don't dislike it... maybe I'm at a point in life where jobs are just jobs. But I did spend lots of time in grad school trying to establish a new career path, only to end up back in the same old same old.. but with less pay! LOL!

In this economy I'm thankful to have a job, though we are facing large budget cuts (I work for county government now) and I was the last hired, so... who knows?

I ended up having to drop out of the PhD program as I wasn't making enough progress fast enough. It was bittersweet, as I had been thinking about it for awhile anyway, and in some ways it was nice to have the decision made for me, since I couldn't seem to make it myself.

I now have 5 dogs... I got a replacement puppy for the one that died of epilepsy, and just recently I fostered a dog that had the most awful life up until now. I have decided to adopt him permanently now. It's a long story, but he was a throw away dog that nobody wanted, and he is the sweetest dog that didn't deserve this. Maybe having been a throw away person, I could really relate to him, but anyway he now has a forever home with me.

Got lots to do in these few days off work!

Wishing everyone the best and great holidays!

Hi Everyone,

Sorry it's been so long since writing...I just checked in again and realized that Wallace and Trusting Him had given me your addresses to post the wedding link. I'll try to write you all today with that info.

Deja Vu: Glad you have a new job and are enjoying your dogs...wow-5 dogs!!! How do you keep up with them all? I know they can add a lot of comfort and joy to your life. Hope you are doing well.

Avondale: Haven't heard from you in a long time. I hope life is going well for you too. I'll have to try sending an e-mail in case you're not checking in here.

God bless you all with a great Valentine's Weekend! "May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in Him..." Romans 15:13

Wow, it's been a year since I last checked in here and posted. They've changed the discussion boards, too. So much has happened yet things stay the same in some ways for all of us. Leah2be/Sunrise, congrats on your wedding!

In all honesty, I probably wouldn't have checked MB if I hadn't gotten that old email from Leah2be about her wedding. I guess some time went between posts and I just got out of the habit of "living" on this chat board. So now I've read your posts for the last 12 months or so. (Fortunately, there weren't too many!) It seems like everyone is moving on pretty well.

Petvet - I'm glad you are glad you decided to marry. We told you so! You are an inspiration to us

Leah2be - aka Sunrise

Congratulations, I loved the video. Thanks for sharing it. Your wedding looked beautiful! More in an email coming your way soon.

Wallace - So, have YOU changed? Are you still in the on again, off again relationship with your GF?

Trusting - I am so glad to hear your son's operation was successful. I hope your job remains secure in light of the industry you're in.

Deja Vu - I've thought of you and your dogs often. I guess it's been a while since your surgery - have you healed well? I'm sorry you're having the job situation but as you said, at least you have one these days.

EC - Has anyone heard from him? I hope he's doing well, too.

Me - Doing well. Nothing new. No grandkids yet - still hoping, though. We still haven't had any snow here in several years, and I'm pretty mad about it! I want one good snow that keeps me out of the office for a couple of days.

Hey all!

It's been awhile since I've posted on here, and I'm not sure if anyone is still around but here goes.

It's that time of year again when the Holidays roll around, and we are suppose to spread Holiday cheer. I want to wish everyone a very "Happy Thanksgiving", and I hope you all enjoy the day as well.

How is everyone doing? Hopefully every one is doing. I haven't seen any posts so I assume you are all coping and doing well.

I'm still engaged to my girlfriend, and we were doing well... but I had some very bad news given to me this past September. I have stage IV Cancer, and they have given me 6 months to as much as 2-1/2 years to live if I decide to take Chemotherapy. I thought I would inform all of you since we have laughed and cried together for a number of years.

For the record... this site, and all of you were my main source of getting through my D, and living life thereafter. I want to thank you all for being there for me. I will always appreciate all of your wisdom and thoughtfulness... you all were true Godsends.

May God bless and protect you all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

WALLACE...It's Leah. I just now checked in and saw your post. I am truly so saddened by your news. I will be praying for you and hope that you are at peace and not in any pain. I'll also pray for your girlfriend as this must be devastating for her as well. May God give you His grace and strength as you deal with this.

Thank you for being a good friend to all of us. You have always been kind and encouraging to us. Thanks too for your signature line..."Stay Strong". It was one I often thought of and needed during those difficult days in the past. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Take care!

Wallace,
I check back here periodically and I'm so sad to read of your diagnosis. We're all faced with the inevitability of death - you just have more knowledge about yours than we do. That can be a blessing in some ways, as one can prepare. But that does not make it any easier to walk through.

You are a gentleman who has faced many difficulties since I've "known" you here at MB and I'm sure you'll face this situation with the same dignity and grace, too. Thank you for all the support you've given me and countless others on this site. You and your family will be in my prayers.
Avondale25

Ouch! I am so sorry to hear the news Wallace. I can;t even begin to put myself in those shoes. Just know that my heart and prayers are with you in whatever you decide to do.

Yes, you, Leah, Avondale, PetVet and tons of others were a HUGE factor in each of our recoveries I believe. With that said you still know where to find us should you need another shoulder to lean on.

God Bless You

Trusting Him

Wallace, I'm SO sorry to hear this news. And, I hope my message reaches you. I don't know what to say - other than how sad this makes me and how much I'm appreciated your posts over the years.

I wish you whatever comfort is to be had now.

Originally Posted by Wallace

Oh my gosh.

I am saddened by your news.

God Bless Wallace