I have come to really distrust and dislike the phrase

"moved on"

when used in context with discussion of the days, weeks, months, yes even years following infidelity

infidelity is grieved like a DEATH

the world is so knocked off it's axis when infidelity does it's damage that there is no such thing as "moving on" - you cannot "move on" - the Earth has stopped spinning
gravity ceases to exist

Maybe it's just me, but when I see "move on" or "moving on" in this context I want to

Do we tell our good friends to "move on" when his/her spouse dies?

I sure as heck don't.

Yes, we do need to continue living our lives - however there is a grief process and a destruction of foundation here that cannot be brushed aside as if we were moving furniture to a different location ....

it's just a rant

you can add your rant after mine - subject of your choice

Pep

I don't much care for the moving on statements either.

But here's my rant (if a FWS is permitted to have a rant) ....

I just want to scream NO, NO, NO every time I open a BS's thread and seeing that they've let their WS's come home without ever raising the bar. They settle for mere crumbs, and they deserve so much better than that.

Just like my wife did a year ago. She accepted my crumbs. Next time around, she raised the bar so high I had to take jumping lessons and wear a parachute to even get a shot at coming home.

tst:

given the nature of your rant, would you please check out VL22's thread??

A rant thread? Stand aside! I'm coming in!!

The word I hate to hear is

HAPPY .

As in 'The important thing is that she's happy'.

Or 'They weren't happy together'.

Or "You've got a right to be happy."

...where what's meant by 'happy' is... temporarily buoyed up by a mixture of external stimuli and fantasy , or freed from uncomfortable stress.

No concept of 'happiness' as something subtle and profound, arising as a by-product of coping with stress, using the troubles of life to grow yourself as a human being, the steady increase of confidence and self-worth.

It makes me want to bite bricks.

TA

Actually, I think 'get over it' is the more inappropriate phrase that people often use. As in: "Well, if he can't get over it, then it's his own fault"

Like you said, would people ever say that to someone who lost a child or family member?

How about,

"Get over it, will you, and move on!"

Always spoken by the betrayer of course.

kirk

IRL people saying "He doesnt want you anymore, get the message"
and "there's plenty more fish in the sea."



IRL people have less care for my M than complete strangers on the other side of the world.

MBers'

hope that whole 'moving on' thingy doesn't apply to us BS's who are totally done and ready to move on. I'm ready to MOVE FORWARD--okay, maybe moving forward is a better descriptive.

I've grieved a great deal. I'm sure there's more to be done. I'm just not interested in giving any more of myself to a half-witted wayward husband.

So, maybe I'm movin on UP...

Like someone else said "get over it" really pisses me off. How do you just "get over" the worst, most painful betrayal you could ever endure? How do you just get over having your world turned upside down, inside out, and being forever changed (read: scarred) by the experience? You never look at life or relationships the same way again. You never trust people like you did before. There's no "getting over" that.

Ok, my rant.
I know of a young woman who has cheated on her H multiple times.
Her MySpace page currently lists a couple of her favorite quotes. such as:

"The greatest challenge in life is to find someone who knows all your flaws, differences, and mistakes, and yet still sees the best in you!"


and

Life is too short to wake up in the morning with regrets. so love the people who treat you right, forget about the ones who don't, and believe that everything happens for a reason

ugh

You are healing .... a very good thing indeed.

Originally I could not think of one but I just did...
We're just FRIENDS!!!!!



I mean, come on....do you need to be knocked on the head with reality? You're not supposed to be FRIENDS with the trash you work with!!!!

sorry...got a bit off topic there.

I hear ya.

Another one is "well things could be worse" Well no [censored] but that doesn't mean the situation doesn't suck balls without adding more crap to it. Would you tell a rape victim, "well it could be worse...you could be dead.?" Like those are comforting words. :RollieEyes:

Another one is "your marriage can be better than ever." No it can't. It is scarred forever. While there can still be a good and happy marriage, it will never be what it could have been.

sarcastic rant of the day :

"HELP ME - I'm desperate!
I'm married almost 2 years and BEEN TOGETHER 8 years.
We have a total of 5 children. His are 12yrs and 9yrs, from 2 previous relationships, they don't live with us full time. Mine,from a previous marriage, is 7yrs and lives with my EX half the time . Together we have twins, 2yrs.

He's been cheating on me from day one.
We cannot afford counseling because he's been out of work 6 months.
I love him with all my heart, but he has a history of treating me bad, not too bad, just yelling & name calling & once he slammed me against the wall.
He's a really good father and husband when he's sober.
He tells me he's changed.
How can I trust him? "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

off rant

TRANSLATION ~~~> I have done everything wrong and now I am asking total strangers to "fix" my life which I have hopelessly screwed up

I hate it when people say to me(bw)
DON'T YOU DARE TAKE HIM BACK!!!! or

YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY WANT HIM BACK?

My WH has given me the "I'M HAPPY NOW' speech could have fooled me that he was unhappy???

WH's latest is IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO COME BACK,ITS BEEN NEARLY 2 YEARS....MAYBE IN A MONTH OR TWO WE CAN GET TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT IT. WTF??I was dumbfounded...I just kept quiet and walked away.

People that I really like, who say they are in mourning, and then don't tell me (or us) what's going on.

People who probably ought to ask, but don't. (Didn't)

I'm asking now......

SS

Being as I lost a spouse to death...yes, they do say that, all of the time! Most people who lose a spouse to death, also lose their friends.

Okay, here's mine...
"It's not that big a deal"

Wow! That's relative...it may not be "that big a deal" to the WS, but it sure is "that big a deal" to the BS!

The other is...
"She didn't mean anything to me"
Right. That's why he lived with her for two months. That's why he told her about his childhood. That's why he took he for a ride on our Harley and let her use MY helmet. That's why he spent all his time with HER instead of ME.

That one is like a double edge sword. While on one hand the BS doesn't want the OP to mean anything to the WS, for the WS to say this is basically saying "I was willing to [censored] up our whole life for someone who means/meant absolutely nothing to me"....Nice.

I don't know which one is worse...???

stupid endless political bickering

I am in Plan B, so N/C with WS:

When are you going to start talking to WS? (as if it's a given I will )
For the sake of the kids, you should try and be 'friends'...(and if I am not?)
...that WS has 'financial issues' because of separation....(so what do you want me do to about it? :crosseyedcrazy:)

PEP....I like this thread... I will be back with some more ... to SHARE!

In the beginning he used to talk about her all the time. Like I want to hear about her? Are WS stupid, or what!

He told me she was kind of ugly...then later he referred to her as a "hot chick". Which was it? Well my guess is she was good looking and he didn't want to say it, but in his stupidity, he let it slip.

Another was he told me how "smart" she was. Right, that's why she's a gang member, has a son in prison, and has to scr_w another woman's husband. That's why she doesn't hold a job and is into drugs. Yep, real smart, I see that one!

It's amazing to me how fogged up WS can get...and the further they are away from the A and the OP, the more they return to normal. Truly amazing.

A non-infidelity rant - (or is it? I feel cheated! )

I am trying to imagine the unforseen consequences of all these government bail outs .... my brain hurts :crosseyedcrazy: :twobyfour:

I DON'T want my $ to buy any part of the "big 3"
I DON'T want my $ to buy poorly written home loans

This feels like giving support for bad decisions - And I do mean CHRONIC bad decision making

I don't want to finance failure - but I'm going to be financing failure - against my will

I worked for Pan Am at one time. They failed - the country was not ruined. Other airlines, smaller and more efficiently run were born from Pan Am's ashes.

Unforseen consequences of bail outs? Anyone?

That's satan's favorite word SELF

Here is my rant (courtesy of the following quote from my xWW):

"Please understand that I am in a new life now...I love my new life I have created--my new home, my new family, my new friends, my new pets, etc."


Your new life is neither "new" nor is it "yours". It is the OLD life of OM's xBW. You did NOT "create" it, you STOLE it! It did not belong to you, it does not belong to you, and you did not EARN it. You slept your way into it.

Along the lines of "happy", this is my favorite rant on the following variation of that theme from my "Christian" xWW...
"God wants me to be happy" (w/ married OM)

Please, xWW, cite me one Biblical reference from the Word of God in which He states that:

"Happiness" is His primary goal for you.
"Happiness" is promised you in the absence of OBEDIENCE.
Adultery and divorce are legitimate and Godly means of pursuing "happiness".

JUST SHOW ME ONE!!!

My rant is folks who are in affair marriages that come here and complain that the cheater they married......has cheated on them. huh? What in the world did they expect? IMO, they forfeited the right to complain when they volunteered to marry a cheater. They married a dog and the dog barked. I am not inclined to help someone who signed on for it.

My next favorite is the "I just want him to be happy" stupidity when applied to folks who are being bad. I wonder if serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer's parents said the same thing to him? I suspect that line is little more than a justification to avoid risking a confrontation with a loved one who is being bad. When I hear it, I know I am talking to a person who does not CARE one whit about the person in question but wants to be perceived as such by saying "I only want him to be happy."

I don't tell my son "I just want you to be happy." I say "I want you to be GOOD." Happiness is the result of being GOOD, after all, not a result of being BAD.

My WH and I were together 27 yrs ...he tells me OW UNDERSTANDS him???...like I don't??

What if the bail outs don't work??? What if the Banks and corporations that are getting bailed out go under anyway?

Governments can go bankrupt too... And that would be really really bad....

I'm sure our advasaries would just love to see the U.S. Government fail. They would even help it happen via ecconomic means if they could.

On another note.....

A few weeks ago the pastor at my church gave a sermon on change. One of the things he said was "Go one week without watching the news or reading the newspaper or any other form of news media and see how much better you feel."


I was already disgusted with the news media so I did it...I turned the news off and went out of my way not to watch it for a while. And I can say that I do feel much better when I'm not focused on all the bad news day in and day out.

I'm not hiding my head in the sand... but all the bad news gets old.

Know what I mean?

Amazin.

Isn't it great? I've been doing that for a few months now. I had to make an allowance when the big hurricane came through but after that it was back to NO NEWS!!

Some stuff filters through via MB or friends & family but other than that, nada.

It's great not to have all of that negative crap spinning around in your head. Another bonus is not having to listen to the constant barrage of advertising.

I have a friend that would benefit from this. She ALWAYS has some awful negative story that she heard--I always tell her that I don't want to hear it. That's why I don't watch TV!!

I can't help but think that's contributing to a lot of negative stuff that's happening in her life right now.

Charlotte

I am a Grand Master (I'd say "Mistress", to correctly go with my gender, but that just seems like a BAD idea on this site!:MrEEk: ) of time wasting, my skills honed to perfection by 5 decades of practice...but in my expert frittering-away-the-day opinion, talking politics is the biggest time waster of them all. I'd rather crawl naked on my hands and knees--from California to the Atlantic seaboard--be nibbled to death by ducks at the far shore, than to get myself bogged down in "stupid endless political bickering.

tl

Rant about thread jacking!

If you have not read the book being discussed - your opinion about the contents of that book is not relevant.

If you have not seen the movie being discussed - your opinion about the contents of that movie is not relevant.

If you have no desire to discuss the original poster's chosen topic, (content of a book or a movie) and instead wish to discuss a different topic - start your own thread.

AMEN.....

not2fun

My cute little You Tube video got pulled for music licensing reasons - AS IF FRANK SINATRA WOULD MIND

WMG

you






S U C K

Pepperband like your rant page.

Rant about "Many people get divorced these days what is the big deal" (it is a big deal that it is our M we are talking about)

"Our daughter will be mad for a little while but then she will be fine" (ready for therapy with anger issues)

"This was my choice" (pretty sucky one)

"I did not leave you because of the affair I was just not happy" (yeah right)

And my especially crazy rant..

H talking to older daughter and she says you destroyed our family and H says "You do not know OW, she is a really good person"
D says "OW could put on a white dress but it doesn't change that she will always be a pig"

Oh good now thats AW off doing something like cleaning or whatever I get to use the PC because I'm not allowed to do too much or have any fun apparently ... doctors orders ... but who listens to them.

Now I know I am going to annoy a lot of people but am I the only one in the world who just can't get excited by Big Brother? There I was the other night, flicking through the TV magazine at 7.30 (so I could give myself half an hour to go through the 400 channels and see what crap I could watch at 8.00) when my son's fiancée screamed "Oh my God it's Franklin!!!". I looked up to see an awards program and a compare saying "give it up for Franklin" followed by whoops and screams from the audience. "Franklin" was going to introduce a few clips of TV soaps then open an envelope telling us who had won. A pretty well know person by her reaction.

me - So what does "Franklin" do?

she - She was on Big Brother UK, she's a celebrity now.

me - She? I admit he looks a BIT girly but I thought "Franklin" would be a mans name?

she - Well she was, but when he was a he. He was a transvestite so decided to have a sex change so he could be a she. She's amazing!

me - Ahhhhh, all so obvious really when you explain it like that. Anyway, what was it you said he, I mean she, did?

she - She's a celebrity. I think she's amazing!

me - Yes but what does she DO?! (Now I'm getting a bit irate)

she - All sorts, she was on Richard and Judy last week

me - Richard and Judy ?? Why am I paying for the women to watch UK shows? So I said Wow! Opening an envelope?!

she - Sorry?

me - Look, don't they have any normal people on Big Brother?

she - Errrrr, no! What would be the point?!

me - What would be the point?! I'll tell you what the bloody point would be! For a start ------

The conversation ended there as the misses came in, told me to shut up and ordered me to go and put the kettle on as I obviously just didn't get it . Don't you hate that condescending look the women give you? I got three, wife, daughter and DIL to be.

Now I must admit when the first Big Brother was on I flicked over once or twice. Only because I was interested in seeing a psychological experiment where people were contained in a controlled environment. (Yea ok, I really wanted to see who would be the first one to fart on TV)

NOW, things seem to have changed, from what I can see you have to be of dubious sexual origins, dress in funny clothes, have the intelligence of a stick or generally be a complete [censored] to be allowed on Big Brother anywhere. As this seems to be the qualification for making interesting TV programs these days I was wondering if it could be improved. I mean this isn't really an interesting program, I watched it one evening to see. A vague lot of individuals wandering about in a weird studio and an annoying commentary. "Priscilla and Jaz are in the kitchen - Jade is in the Big Brother garden - Theo and Marcelle are in the Bedroom - Stephanie is in the toilet having a p......"

Nooooooooo!! Enough - we don't need this info?!! It's not a radio program, it's TV, we can SEE what they are doing (apart from Stephanie, thank God) and it's NOT interesting.

I actually changed channels before going to bed one night at 1.30am and bugger me if Big Brother was filming them in bed, sleeping! What's more this was actually MORE interesting than the daytime section!!

I'm sure this program would have more viewers if it was more interesting.

As an example, I think the voting could be spiced up a lot, we are missing some serious potential for good money making television here. What I had in mind was a merger with the Rolf Harris vet program.

I can hear Rolf now........ "we don't like to see these cute little fella's suffering in pain, do we?"

So, at the end of each week watchers could vote on which housemate they wanted to have put down. You know the idea.........

To give Franklin the injection:

Phone 08700100100 for "Franklin"

or text "zap Franklin"

Now seriously, that is something I would switch on and watch.

To be honest if "Franklin" was a nominee I would even make the effort and learn how to text so I could vote all day long!!! or maybe we could vote on zapping the producers as well?

Aussie

I hate this word:

CLOSURE

WH says he needs closure. So instead of ending the affair and getting closure with OW, he's filed for divorce to get closure from BS, kids, dog, parents, siblings, in-laws, friends, neighbors, etc., etc.

How does ending all these relationships, not just the M, bring about "closure"?

HH, can we change the word "closure", to be careful when the door starts to "close" that it doesn't hit you in the [censored].

Aussie, all I have to say is......

I concur

I hate the word:

ENTITLED

And I hate it almost as much as I hate the word paradigm.

I got yer entitled paradigm right here... (where is the smiley dropping trou?)

You know that woman of mine forgets to sign off all the time - opportunity knocks again !!

Well I can honestly state that I have MOVED ON from big brother and I also have CLOSURE from Franklin and further more -

I'm ENTITLED to call a show crap when its crap


however I don't see any reason to discuss that with my daughter or DIL to be - let alone the missus.

I can remember when spousal support meant something. Like when we were having our first kid and the missus made me - I mean invited me - to join in the Lamazy thingy you know the excercise thing women need.

well the class was in full swing. The instructor, Army nurse Captain, was teaching the women how to breathe properly, I asked the missus why she didn't just breath in and out, but apparently my input wasn't welcomed, along with informing the men how to give the necessary assurances at this stage of the plan. Not that the instructor got it right, when it happened she called me so many names I didn't even know she knew. I still have the scars from her nails.

Anyway the teacher then announced, "Ladies, exercise is good for you. Walking is especially beneficial. And, gentlemen, it wouldn't hurt you to take the time to go walking with your partner!"

The room got really quiet.

I raised my hand cause it felt like school, ok the instructor scared the sh1t out of me. "Yes," replied the teacher. "I asked if it was alright if she carried a golf bag while we walked?"

Women can be SO unreasonable ya know?

Wot???? I thought you said I could rant

Anyway if you don't dob me in to the missus neither will I

I did not say a word!

WOT you talkin'bout Willis?

"But" when used "innocently" to say something just the opposite.

"I'm not judging anyone here, but..."

"I apologize, but..."

"That dress looks great on you, but..."

This is mine too. If you're really friends with someone and nothing more, then you shouldn't have to put JUST in front of that.

If you do, then you know you're doing something wrong and betraying your marriage and you're trying to justify it

Pep,

I like your rant, and I also hate to see how insensitive and dismissive some people are about the recovery process following infidelity. Far too often (and too soon) the grief of BSs is disrespected and misunderstood.


It's always the WS that has already "moved on" and the BS who's expected to "catch up", "get on the learning curve" and left to clean up the ashes and "mop up". It's a bunch of carp. It's a useless phrase to face the work of recovery.


This is such an important statement because I don't think that most people (especially fogged up WSs) understand that recovery from infidelity is a long (amazing long), arduous, and debilitating process. It's not "like" death....it IS "a death". It's a death of innocence and trust. It's the death of dreams and promise. It's a death of enormous proportion that creates the same massive upheaval as an earthquake. The ground shakes, the foundation cracks and the buildings fall. Recovery is built (or falls to ruin) amidst the rubble of that event. And yes, it requires the same grieving stages and process as any other mass casualty incident....only the destruction, is often invisible. When there is a physical death, or plane crash, a flood, a hurricane, a war....everyone expects the recovery to be long and painful. But victims of infidelity are asked to "get over it", "move on", or "accept" the UNacceptable. PTSD is not just for returning soldiers. Many many BSs suffer from PTSD....that's how traumatic it is.


Yes. Hopefully, it doesn't stay that way....but I know of no one who's initial reaction wasn't temporarily paralyzing and painful.

But, thankfully, that's not the end of the story, and the other message (the balance for this one) is so important too. Because we CAN ultimately "move on" with...or without...our WS. Marriages can survive this earthquake. That is the primary message of this site....that there is HOPE and that something that seems fatal to marriages, is in fact be SURVIVABLE....even when the beginning of the process seems so hopeless. The book is called "Surviving an Affair" and above all else....THAT is the message that makes MB so very attractive and useful to so many people. What brought me to this site, was the firm belief of it's founders, that infidelity was not as fatal as I believed it was when I was overcome with my initial grief.

There are two parts of me that react to the phrase "moving on". One part is completely peeved to hear the phrase....yeeeech! Like you, I'm angry at anyone who has the audacity to tell a betrayed spouse to "move on" or "get over" their pain. Excuse me? It infuriates me. It's cruel.

There is another part of me that sees those messages as healthy, and ultimately (down the road at the end of the grief process) as reasonable and desirable goals no matter the outcome. Who doesn't want to eventually "move on"? We all do....we just don't want anybody else deciding WHEN we need to do it!

I want this MB process (along with the grief process) to empower people....help them overcome their fear (both in facing the WS AND in developing enough confidence and strength to reject false recoveries and unrepentant WSs, rebuild their lives, and safeguard their marriages and their futures.

Just like "moving on" bugs me....so does overemphasis on the hopelessness and destruction. In our quest to understand the true tragedy of infidelity, we compare it to other great losses....divorce, death, rape, etc. And I worry about placing so much emphasis on how insurmountable and tragic it is, as much as I worry about dismissing it's devastation or trying to push people too fast.

Sometimes, I read the posts of BSs and think "This creep doesn't DESERVE your tears!" I see so many faithful and willing BSs who are so fearful of losing unrepentant waywards, that they are paralyzed from using the strategies that will save their marriages...afraid they will anger the WS.

No matter how hopeless it feels in the beginning....I want my message to be "FIGHT! It's NOT hopeless. Don't give up on your marriage. Don't give up on the recovery of your marriage. You can be happy again."

And no matter how hopeless it feels in the end....I want my message to be "Fight! It''s NOT hopeless. Don't give up on your own resiliency! Don't underestimate your ability for self-recovery. You can be happy again".

It's hard for me to find the right balance of advice, and both recognize the agony and grief of infidelity and still empower people to use the tools in spite of their grief. There are times to say not "move on"....but GET UP and DON'T GIVE UP because even though this is horrible.....there is still hope! And even if the marriage fails because of this....do everything you can, do it the right way, have no regrets....and THEN if nothing helps, in time, as you need to, as you, yourself are ready to.....move on...then do it....because you must.

"For everything there is a season" I guess, and a time to "move on". I hope I know the right timing for that advice so that it is empowering rather than disrespectful. But I do honestly believe that my marriage is better now than it was before the infidelity. Not BECAUSE of the infidelity, but IN SPITE of it. Something was lost. Something died. There's no help for that. I can never have that back. I can never have back my "prettiest" dreams.

But something was born too. I have greater personal strength and believe in my own ability to survive happily in my life. My dreams for the future are really beautiful. My family is so connected and intact in a way that seems more sustainable and real now that it's survived the ultimate test. It's not a test I think is necessary....but it happened...and we made it. I hope I face the rest of my trials (and there will be many) with as much tenacity. I like my marriage now....and honestly, I really like it better than my old marriage....and didn't believe I EVER would. I also have the comfort of knowing that my image of my husband is less important to me than my love for him. What I mean is that I forgave him....I really did forgive him in the deepest sense. I "forged on" rather than "moved on"...and now I'm really in a good place.

So don't "move on"....FORGE ON! because marriage and life are worth the effort.

Star* - seriously girl - you need to work on you rant skills -

Where are the F bombs?

The multiple !!! exclamation !!! marks?

The BOLDED CAP words?

The sized up words?

The multiple emotional faces?

The colorful words?

The line of ?????? dancing question marks?

We're going to have to coach you on proper ranting technique.

STEP ONE - No more rational thoughts - emotions only.
Let me know when you have mastered the first step and we'll proceed slowly from there.

and





.






.



.

RANT ON

People who ride your bumper.

Seriously, what is the DEAL with these bonehead maniacs? And worse yet, the ones that do it on the FREEWAY going 55 - 75 MPH.

Me? I try to follow the car in front of me by using the rule: 1 car length for every 10 MPH I'm traveling

Thanks for reading.

RANT OFF

wax on.....





wax off.....




wax on.....





wax off.....


not2fun

:twobyfour: CLUEBAT!!! :twobyfour:

If folkses are riding your bumper if might be a CLUE that you need to DRIVE a little FASTER!! If you would drive a little faster, we wouldn't ride your silly bumper! Can you not get a move on, people?? Cars are for DRIVING FAST, not for meandering along yakking on your cell phones! Let's move it, people! :RollieEyes:

ondelay! ondelay!!

RANT

All these new drugs advertised on TV where the drug's side affects are worse than the illness. Do they think we're stupid? Where is the FDA in all this?

Example:

FIXALL-ADENE

A new drug to make your gray hair turn back to it's natural color.

DRUG WARNING:

FIXALL-ADENE may cause balding, heart attack, cancer, blindness, paralysis, hearing loss, cataracts, brain tumors, shortness of breathe, loose stools, scabs over 98% of your body, genital disappearance, rickets, constipation, dry and itchy skin, dementia-related psychosis, piojitos, permanent limb numbness, liver disease, kidney failure or a runny nose.

RANT OFF

Yeap. And you got the tickets and photos to prove it, Missy.

Pio will be very upset to hear that Jo

Bwahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! Jo, you are hilarious!!!

Mrs. W

WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THIS CENSOR????????

Can ANYONE tell my why [censored]-n-span would be censored????.....honestly, does anything in life get any cleaner than that????

And how is it that skew gets censored but not anal?????....

I personally I am not censored very often, but me thinks the censor is a little too "sensitive".....

not2fun

Not, I think the censor eliminated a word that has racist meanings that have nothing to do with cleaning products.
It's just a dumb robot....

You forgot the mother of all side effects

ANAL LEAKAGE

Theatre of the obvious:

I am cheating with my X boyfriend - what should I do?

My spouse is dating someone at work - should I expose the affair?

My WS is still seeing the OP behind my back - should I say anything to him/her?

Nagging Nana's and over protective mothers are driving me up the wall.

LEAVE ME ALONE I CAN MESS UP MY LIFE WITHOUT ANY MORE ADVICE THANK YOU

Oh that didn't come out exactly as I wanted it to.

well you know what I mean. :RollieEyes:


Pep if you have all those 'terrible' issues then maybe you should post it all here, get advice, ignore it and do nothing!!!

Myself, I'd use a blunt scalpel.

ED commercials being aired prior to 9:00PM.

DS1 was watching "How it's Made" on Discovery Channel at 7:00PM during a weeknight and here comes an Extenze commercial. If you haven't seen it, it's a very looooong drawn out commercial about "business" enlargement. Yes, puns were intended. In any case, DS and I are exchanging glances in a very awkward moment while I race for the remote the change the channel.

Besides that, if a man doesn't think has a problem with size or endurance, he will by the end of any given night between the Cialis, Viagra, Enzite and Extenze commercials. Give the fellas a break!!

"BUT"

I fume everytime I hear that damn word

I blew another guy "but"

I love you "but"

I had an affair "but"

We could have been happy "but"

My all time favourite right up there with 'we're just friends',


There was no SEX

while looking you straight in the eye, thinking that liars can't look you in the face and tell truths.

I just beat the [censored] out of OM even though there's an order against me. :twobyfour:

My latest rant.....

The phrase "CLEAN SLATE".

After 2 1/2 years of struggling in a half azzed recovery with a wayward spouse who refused to meet my needs for amends (transparency w/out resentment, openess and honesty, extraordinary precautions, etc), I finally decided it was in my best interest to "forgive" him for his multiple infidelities and to let go of some of my lingering anger.

After all, on occasion, I thought maybe he did feel bad for his multiple infidelities, cuz he said so, and he did apologize. (Where's the rolley eyes icon?)

RANT: Now mind you, I had already told him I forgave him for the first affair that I had found out about. That took 5 months after the first d-day. I had a trickle truth WH. It took a year of teeth pulling with his constant lies and a polygraph to find out about the others.

RANT: So last week, all sincere and teary eyed, I told my H that I forgave him for what he had done to me. It was a BIG moment for me. He gave me a hug and then went on and changed the subject. I was dumbfounded that he apparently wasn't grateful for that, but I said nothing about it until the next day.

RANT:So the next day I asked him, "Didn't my forgiveness mean anything to you?" All he said was "I had already forgiven myself a long time ago". (Oh rolley eyes where are you?.....)

RANT: Then yesterday, during a brief conversation about his visit with his INDIVIDUAL counselor that day, he let me know that he now has a "CLEAN SLATE", which apparently he discussed with his counselor. (Insert DJ)


RANT: I've heard similiar stuff from my H. And we've paid thousands of dollars for him to get there to boot!!! Yay!!!! (rolley eyes) RANT: I sometimes feel like I don't give him enough credit.

Edited to add another rant: Ok, I'm trying to see the best in him, there are some good traits in him. He's willing to go to church, BUT chooses which parts of the bible "HE believes is true".

RANT: He's willing to find out WHY he did what he did to me/us/him by seeing a individual counselor, but he's become even more selfish in my book since he's been going to her.

Another rant......I don't see the little yellow guy that faints, to add as a visual to this post,of how I felt when I heard him say these things to me.

RANT: I too HATE the phrase "get over it". I heard that one several times from my "don't want to make amends that are uncomfortable to me". (deleted something here that wasn't helpful)

Another rant......BSs like me who take FOREVER to "move on".

I have another one, and it's the mother of all rants to me.......

A WH who claims he's sorry, then lies about the details, then says straight to your face, "there's nothing else to tell". Then tells lots more before a polygraph MONTHS later.

Even worse......getting angry and telling the WH to his face that he's a lying SOB, among other choice TRUE adjectives(because I was hurt from the lying and the new affairs)and then him telling me he couldn't tell me the truth because "I didn't make it SAFE FOR HIM?!

Even worse than that........people here agreeing that I didn't make it safe for HIM to tell the truth. Even his counselor, after talking to me, suggested to my H that he let me vent on a timer (rolley eyes) but he refused to "take that kind of abuse" and chose which advice he was going to take from her as well.

Yeah, I was angry when I found out he left me for another women that he met online, but never had even met her IRL. But I mostly just cried. Because of that anger, I didn't make it safe for him to tell me the truth about everything for almost a year.

:RollieEyes:

Err.....found em. :RollieEyes:

The great abyss :crosseyedcrazy:

My rant'o'day .... March 21 2009

I hate it when ...

When asked: "Why did you choose adultery over fidelity" ... the Adulterous Spouse (AS) goes into a long-winded and over-detailed tapestry of childhood hurts mixed in with complaints about the Faithful Betrayed Spouse's pre-adultery behaviors.

Here are some fresh ideas ....

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE ADULTERY?
Because it felt good.
Because fidelity to my spouse meant less to me than feeling good.
Because I am careless.
Because I am selfish.
Because I am impulsive.
Because I did not care.
Because I am angry.
Because I like cheating.
Because I don't give a damn about my marriage.

wow. that's just mean.

Wow - that's what rants are for !

Yeah, I am sooooooooooo mean !
In light of recent events, this is even funnier than the first time I read it.

Note to all waitresses: I am not your "Honey," "Sweetie," "Baby," "Babe," or "Stud."

Having met my wife when she was a waitress, I understand the need to rely on making tips. I understand that lonely drivers who have not been home in 30 or 45 days might be willing to leave a little bigger tip if you can make them think you're interested, but I am almost 57 and you are like, what, 18 or 19?

Your DADDY is younger than I am...

Mark

Oh Mark!

I vurped! That would pi$$ me off to no end.

Note to the help at Home Depot - I know where everything is, and I don't need a big ol'man to tell me how to use it correctly!

Note to Borders - your "Home Improvement" aisle looks like a disaster hit it, and when it was kindly told to the cashier this customer was told, "It's because of the economy and we are understaffed."

This customer thinks that is a half arsed excuse, and if'n you want to be able to someday afford to hire more help, you'll teach your waitstaff to say "yes, ma'am, we'll get right on that," and back it up by some action. People aren't going to spend 5 hours looking for "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" at your messy store when they can waltz in to Barnes and Nobles and snag it in 5 minutes!

Fartknockers!

Fartknockers!

I never noticed this rant thread. MY WH way of apologising to me right after Dday when i was completely falling apart:

I never meant to fall in love

He said this so may times it was unbelievable. I just want to know what did you mean to happen:

to just sc*** her brains out behind my back!!
to keep doing it until I found out!!
to be friends with her!
to use her until you were done with her!
to have me find out then for me to say "oh thats okay I dont mind if you Sc*** around on me"

And if you tell me one more time that you LOVE HER I am going to scream. :twobyfour:

I can't rant enough about

"MOVE ON"

.... which often translates into

Date while still married ....

Can I rant about something NOT MB-related?

Be my guest !

Ok, here goes:

Back in Sept, S15 was at a team dinner prior to a football game. The boys went to a pizza joint.

One of the kids working at the pizza place (a senior) and one of the kids on the team (freshman) apparently had some bad blood between them and there was some taunting going on...senior to freshman and freshman giving it back to senior.

Remember, the senior wasn't part of the team and he worked in the kitchen of the pizza place.

Dinner over, boys who could drive were leaving. Other boys waiting for rides.

Senior boy comes out, taunts freshman boy and then goes back into kitchen and comes back out. Starts shoving freshman boy. Freshman boy shoves back. More shouting and shoving going on in parking lot. Parents are there (not son's dad..running late as usual...LOL) waiting to pick up and they are all sitting there WATCHING this happen.

Senior starts to shake freshman. My son decides :: to get involved and pulls senior off of freshman. Pulls him off with enough force to launch him into parked car of waiting parent.

Makes a big dent.

New car.

Ugh.

I don't remember exactly what ensued after that except that conversations ensued between parents of two fighting boys, my husband and the grandfather in the parked car waiting to pick up his grandson.

The agreement was that the three boys would split the cost of the grandfather's insurance deductible ($500) and the guy could take his car to the body shop.

At the time I wasn't nuts about this. I felt as though my son did the right thing. Senior boy went back into kitchen and came back out. Son is thinking...knives in kitchen..this could get ugly and no one is doing anything. Yeah, he could have/should have gotten a parent involved (at least that's what the folks on the 101 board beat me up about), but he just acted first and thought later. So like I said, I wasn't nuts about him coming up with $166 for this deductible. But we went along and made sure he learned something out of the deal.

So that was that.

I got a letter from a law firm the other day wanting collection on a debt of $1700 from an insurance company. This means that: A) the insurance company thought they had some sort of money owed to them by us and b) they never contacted us about it but instead went straight to collections? Or a lawyer?

I haven't yet talked to the person handling this case. We've exchanged voice mails and emails. So I don't know WHY this insurance company thinks we owe them $1700 on a debt that according to this letter, we agreed to pay?

On top of that, they got my son's name wrong.

That's my rant.

BTW, any lawyers on this site want to chime in? Now that I've spoken with the law firm.

This $$$ is the INSURANCE company coming after us for what they had to shell out to pay for the damage. Subrogation.

And even though I argued against it to my husband and anyone else who would listen last September that I did *not* want to have our son pay 1/3 of the deductible...well now there's precedent, isn't there?

And oh, how nice. The other two families have gone on record stating OUR SON started the fight. After we were nice enough to force him to pay 1/3.

No police report, it's heresay.

They're fishing.

Tell them to eff off.

OH,

Start a callout thread for Mr. W and I'll give him a heads up...He is an attorney, though his specialty is tax law...Not sure if he can help or not...Worth a shot I guess...

Mrs. W

ETA: 6yearsleft, Zelmo and BritsBrat are also attorneys...

Zelmo will know more than me...as he's been a litigator. But, in absence of experience, I'd tell them to shove off too. If they keep calling you and being persistent at all hours of the day and night, then you'll need a lawyer (a family friend who you don't have to pay would be nice).

I've had friends ask me about collection calls and I tell them to get the companies fax number so I can fax them a quick letter indicating they are "represented". At that point, they can no longer call you or otherwise harass you at home. Without exception, they drop the matter. Although this has involved matters less than $1,700, I'd guess $1,700 isn't worth their time to go about hiring a law firm to undertake suing you for this money (they could have in-house attorney's which would make it easier for them to actually sue you). However, my guess is they will most likely write it off.

They are just hoping to get lucky and get you to pay up.

If they DO actually sue you...you can THEN either fight it or settle for substantially less than $1,700.00. Dealing with the lawyers and settling the matter with them is much easier than dealing with the collections department.

Mr. Wondering

Speaking of rants...

I have wanted to say this for awhile.

Friendship is a two-way street and the posters indicating on MB that they'd never have even a fully repentent wayward spouses as their friends in real life...

are most likely doing any such repentent waywards a HUGE favor.

Mr. Wondering

I get exactly where the insurance company is coming from actually. By the three boys paying the deductible, they have admitted liability and the insurance company will pursue it's losses. It also comes down to what the guy said on the claim form which is probably that your son caused the damage by throwing te senior onto the car.

ITA!!!

I looked up their website and they are basically a collection agency with a few lawyers on staff.

What gets me is that this apparently went into "collections" from the insurance company without even a prior contact or bill being sent to us FROM the insurance company.

I also think they are blowing a lot of smoke. We're not going to do anything until we talk to the other two families to see if they said what the collection agency says they said. (they said the other two have paid their 1/3rd and that our son started the fight!)

But...


I worry about this, too. I was against paying our 1/3rd of the deductible from the beginning because of the principle of the thing. I remember posting about it on the 101 forum because I was ticked that H reached this decision with the other families without consulting me and I got soundly 2x4'd for my attitude. We did have our son pay the 1/3rd. And we did talk to him about trying to find an adult, etc. (regardless of the fact that there were at least 5 of them sitting there in their cars watching the entire thing...)

So precedent has now been set. But I told H that hell will freeze over before I will agree to ponying up $500+ for this. And speaking of that, is it NORMAL for the insurance company to come after its money like this? Isn't that why you pay premiums? Grandpa had a $500 deductible which three families gave to him. How did the insurance company find out about all of us? As someone mentioned above, there was no police report.

No police report but when you make a claim you say what happened.

Yes it is normal.

Rant:

Who the *^&$%#@!~ does Pat Robertson think he is??????

You're gonna tell the families of 100,000 dead people that they deserve the earthquake because of some supposed deal with the devil? Sheesh! No wonder some people roll their eyes over religion!

TEENAGE DRAMA QUEENS!!!!!......

(Especially the female ones!!!!)

Yeah I agree.

ITA also.
"Show me someone who has never made a mistake and I will show you someone who has never learned anything"

Luri, Pat Robertson has done more to hurt organized religion this week than any man I know. What an idiot. Hope there is a hell so he can burn in it.

OH- If they have your son's name wrong, next time they contact you, tell them there is no such person at this address or number and there never has been.

I have an email identifying my son as XYZ, which happens to be my husband's middle name. Weird. How the heck they got all this information is beyond me. Well, I guess it's not beyond me, since this stuff is so accessible these days.

I gave H the letter that the law firm/collection agency sent us and forwarded the email (which contains the incorrect version of my son's name). He is going to call the lawfirm/collection agency and tell them to pound sand, basically. I agreed to call the other two families here in town to see if they'd been contacted by this outfit and what they agreed to, if anything, though I'm not divulging my plans to them.

I need to check to see if the stories match.

Bottom line is that we paid the deductible. (against my better judgement and H is regretting his decision too...he said he thought it was the "right thing to do at the time" and I guess I can see that...). If the insurance company wants to go after someone to recover what they spent on the claim, they will have to find someone else to do it. It's going to be a huge PITA when it gets on our credit record and will necessitate letter writing to credit monitoring companies, etc.

I wish I knew a lawyer here who could fax in a letter per Mr. Wondering's suggestion. I know lots of lawyers...just not one I'm comfortable enough asking for that kind of favor.

Rant-o-day

"Help me end my wife's affair."

The crowd roars "EXPOSE !!!"

"No, I can't do that."

"Help me end my wife's affair."

And we wonder why people get frustrated on this board. Good one Pep.

this came from thread title.....

PIEHOLE!!!!

I LOATHE that word.....

I cringe when I hear it on TV or the movies....

I go BALLISTIC when my H feels inclinded to say it.....

EVERYONE runs for the hills when it comes out of my kids mouth (oh and believe-you-me...it has).....

I HATE HATE HATE that word and the saying.....

I'm just saying...

not2fun

So, Not, how do you really feel about it?

EXCELLENT RANT

Omigosh...ME, TOO!!! I don't know what it is about that word, but it ALWAYS makes me cringe, no matter what context it's used in. *shudder*

It's VULGAR!!!!!......

And unlady like....

Reminds of another word I HATE, but I can't say that I haven't used it to describe a certain OW....

I don't any more though....

the other word.....has NEVER come out of my mouth......

yep, my biggie rant....


not2fun

ps...Thanks Pep....I figure if I can't get a notable post, at least I got an "EXCELLANT RANT"!!!....

Oh <~~~ poor baby Not2

I KNOW......the INJUSTICE of it all.....

Poor wittle ol' me......(pass me a hankie, will ya???.... :()



not2fun

Today, I rant about

Munchausen by internet

I'm jus saying .... don't automatically take everything written on a forum as straight-up-truth.

Remember the "dustkitty" ... and use common sense and a discriminating mind.

Pep, I'm right with you. Munchausen by internet fits the case exactly. Some serious help needed, I think.

Ahh.

Troll.

RANT ON !!!!!!!!!!

OK Mouseketeers ... this right here .... is why we get so IN YOUR FACE if you come to MB as a betrayed spouse
(who married your adultery partner)
and are now "housebroken" that your spouse is *gasp* CHEATING ON YOU !!!

AKA an affairage-affair.

suddenly, the shoe is on the other foot, and you're so broken hearted

"Whaaa-whaaaa" your affairage has been "ruined" by *GASP*

A D U L T E R Y

Trust me, if MyMissy's WH is so stupid as to marry the OW, and either one of them cheats ... I don't give a damn.

It's a bit fat....

SO WHAT?

I am so glad pep introduced me to this thead.

Now I have a plcace to rant about...
feeling like sometimes I am

when BS's want to solve their problems but are unwilling to make the hard choices that might help lead them there.
Having been a BS I know its scary to take the leap and see where it leads but I for one refuse to let fear paralyse me.
I wish the "ITs the Fear BS" post was required reading for all new BS's in hopes that it would help them get over it sooner while there still is time for R.

Recovery is not for the weak. Your gonna have to pull out that inner strenght and put it to use to you there.

[/end Rant]

Lil rant..

I do NOT understand why now I am 2 years past d-day, someone who held me and told me how strong I was in plan A while I was howling would say to me after I said I had no sympathy about a certain WH losing everything because of his A, "You shouldnt judge, you dont know what goes on behind closed doors"

So there are JUSTIFICATIONS for an affair????
I think not! and then when I said "no matter what's going on, an affair is NEVER right", I am now the 'narrow minded' person

Angry, angry, angry I am.

Rant,

Watching bills not being paid that XH is responsible for and agreed for in HIS D and now he is "just not paying" because "HE HAS NO MONEY" but he is in Las Vegas with PP spending all the money he does not have.

end of rant.
see you in court

For these "buts" we need a smiley icon dropping real trou.

perfic!

My H told me he is going to be selfish, and that was O.K. Jeasus said that it was O.K. to be selfish (apparently it is in the bible, dontchaknow?)

Rant on:

It really bothers me to hear the OW/OM referred to as the "lover" in some MB books and materials. I prefer the use of the words affair partner.

rant off. Not a very good rant, I guess.

AM- I agreeeeeeeeee. I HATE that. I also hate saying that they have a RELATIONSHIP. I feel like it lessens the hurt to the BS by calling what they have a RELATIONSHIP.

Also a pathetic rant but I feel better

I'm with you there armymama.

Everytime I see the affair partner refered to as 'the lover' it makes my stomach churn. It's like another twist of the knife in my heart.

Lover my @$$...dirty rotten filthy skanky family destroying POS more like it!

This makes me want to scream and rant and gag and puke!!!!!!!

God's Blessings,

Say

And, YET again.

Bait the regular posters, and call them names ... and you've created a fun thread full of insults and

"Look-at-poor-little-old-me ... I'm all alone in the big mean MB world, and no one understands me."

"Everyone is just soooooooooo mean to me."

"This place sucks!
This place sucks HARD.
Let me tell you the 100 ways this place sucks."

WE KNOW WE SUCK. YOU'VE ALREADY TOLD US !

"I don't know why I ever came here."

I know what ! ... Here's my BIG IDEA ! I will throw out more fish chum and hurl some more manure.
And, continue to post in the big mean hard-sucking MB forum.
Because, everyone likes to get advice where they insult others.
EVERYONE goes to a forum, insults people, and then wonders "why" they are not getting advice

for rice-crispy-sakes ... It's getting old and repetitive.

Seeing the truth is sometimes just a matter of perspective.
Look at the picture, tilt your head to the left, and then to the right until you see the word.
Beware of the liar.

Theres your side, then thier side and then the truth.. So many hide from the truth as they try to live life in a fantasy land and blame others for why thier marriages fail. The answers are so simply laid out here thru MB but by the time they get here they are in such an emotional state that they need

.... first to know is we care about them and thier marrige.

then after some time and they have read the material and we want to help them reveal lovebusters, DJs, AOs we can ask questions and maybe even challenge them if we have to.


The practice of critisizing or hammering ppl as soon as they reveal a major mistake is totally selfish and only shows how childish we can be. I too have been caught up in it occasionnally but I try to be understanding of those who come here seeking advice and where they might be in thier life or mindset so in the end we help them.

The marriage vows are to me not some tricky set of rules that are allmost impossible to keep because I want to feel loved by someone else. They are more of a tool that helps me grow and know how to love someone. In that way those rules are a gift from God so I can have healthy relationships and retain the ability to love.

The rules in MB do the same thing and I doubt Dr H wants us to get into arguments using them to beat each other up in some "King of the Hill" battle of who is smarter.

I see what your sayin Pep may we all

SSO, if that is what you consider to be a "RANT", it certainly needs some hot sauce.

Yeah figures huh? Well you know me Pep, Sometimes I think I come across as beating around the Bush.

OK..

Now that should qualify...

Yeppers.

Pep,

Now THIS is HOT SAUCE...

Hear Hear!!!!!

To me a pepperocini is grounds for a glass of milk and tacobell hotsauce can sometimes be too much.

Everybody thinks its hilariuos at my house.

I second that hear hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a few choice words for the OP myself that are definitely NOT appropriate for here, and lover is NOT one of them!!!!!!

This rant is off topic but I gotta rant somewhere.

When did the fashion memo comeout making itokay to wear leggings as pants. grown women...everywhere...whereing stuff ment to be wore UNDER clothing...as pants.

My DS11 went WOW mommy you can see her butt...like all of it...shes kinda naked. the other day

Note - if an 11 year old notices...ALLL men notice...

And these are grown women...wearing them as pants with heels and an oversized shirt...to WORK...

they are stockings without feet people...not pants.

If you can tell the shape of your err.........knee cap...then you shouldnt wear it as pants. Its like they painted their skin and said - there...i dont need pants...

Does this mean I am old? when you look at pants and ask seriously - could those be tighter. I wear low rise old navy jeans. They are pretty tight...but at least their is fabric...thickness to them. You cant see my freckles and any dimples i may have through them. If there is a mole on these girls legs you can TELL...

Looks like nail polish.

Hey Sistereed, I with ya on that.

When I see girls dressed like that I think of going to the hardware store and getting some "No-pest Strips"

Its nowhere near as attractive to me as the character of a woman who is confidant and gregariuos with good sense, dresses well and can laugh. If they take care of themselves and you can count on them being no pushover then thats someone worth the time to talk to.

The girls with everything hanging out are just so pathetic and desparate to be noticed or dumb if they don't know what they are doing. Im so glad that I am to old now for them to notice me anymore. lol.

it looks like this

skin tight leggings
t shirt
boots

everywhere
in the last three weeks...you can see there neither region with way to much detail. And its not skanky women persay but lots and lots of women. Its the new fashion thing. And not GIRLS...WOMEN...30 to 40 year old women. with kids with them.

We had a special faculty meeting this winter because teachers were wearing sweaters with these leggings. Even when I was skinny, I knew pants were pants. This is what happens when people start wearing white shoes after Labor Day....chaos ensues.

white shoes after labor day...but Clinton and stacey said its okay!

Well Clinton and Stacey best steer clear of the area below the Mason Dixon line!:)

Ok I see but, wait no butt.. seriuosly its just more than I want to see when I am trying to have a convo with a woman.
I mean I have when I was being a wise guy before asked kids with the pants falling off if they wanted my belt. I told em I had enough Butt to hold my pants up.

Whats also strange is if you tell an attractive young woman with revealing clothes to have mercy on you they act like they are tottally unaware of how it can effect guys. "its the style".

Its dangerous for men to think if a girl is wearing revealing clothing that they are looking for a lover or have loose morals but when it gets outrageous its easy to think that.

I just ignore it for the most part and keep my eyes above the waist while I search for some braincells behind the eyes in whatever conversations I might be having with them.

Usually its the young ones I worry about when they follow trends and the wolves gather around them.

Just wanna dip a toe in at this end of the pool.

What the heck is with the idea of 'Soulmates'? Seriously are we all dreamy-eyed 15 year old girls? Soulmates is just a ridiculous idea created to make us all feel entitled to some passionate romantic love we don't have to do ANYTHING for. Sorry what a bunch of poop- it's just an excuse for bad behavior. If I hear one other person go of about how someone is their 'soulmate' again I'm gonna scream.

You know when I'll find out if DH is my soulmate - when we're dead! If we can make it through this life happy and in love - then our souls will have MATED... you don't get to call it before the end of the game.

Oh and another thing.... why bother to get married if you're just gonna sit around and expect a happy marriage to fall in your lap.. then when things don't work out - rather than fight for your family and kids, you just roll over and take it. It gets a little hard so you throw a little pity party about how you're going to be alone.

And then, rather than look at yourself and figure out what it is you did that make both your wife AND your kids happier without you - instead you talk about finding new friends, buying a bike, getting a hobby, doing some yoga...

arrrrghhhhh!!!!!

Ok that really wasn't a toe - more like my head with a bull horn - but I'm glad I got that off my chest

AMEN. If you were a preacher I'd send you an offering. here's my take...

Soulmates = I have spent way to much time watching Lifetime and reading the Twilight series.

Sitting around waiting for a happy marriage = Oh, sorry, I din't realize it would actually take work. Why don't you just help pay the bills, laugh at my jokes, and fix dinner?

Looking at myself = I'd be happy to IF I acutally ever did anything wrong. Oh, wait, I did once, but it was somebody else's fault. Or one time Mommy forgot to say I Love You. Or I never had a pony

Do not get married if:
1. You do not love someone
2. You do not want to have regular sex
3. You do not want to include someone else in your decisions
4. You do not want any relationships that take work

Okay, I'm not really done, but I'll stop

Preach it sistah, Preach it! Amen, AMEN!

I never had a pony as a kid - what do I get? waaaahhhhh!!!!

I never had a pony either. I had long skinny legs, big nose, glasses, and crooked teeth...and a really pesky little brother. No wonder I'm so weird!!

What kills me are the posters that spend half their post-time referring to "this" persons post or "that" persons post as not being good advice and then proceed to give their version of the correct advice.

If you don't agree, you don't agree...but leave it up to the thread owner to distinguish. Or say you don't agree...no one needs a diatribe of why it is bad advice (according to you). It just starts a back and forth about who's advice is better and an argument and focus off the situation.

If you have a problem with a poster or their advice, START A NEW THREAD...

I don't agree.

Just kidding. I am a little off today...okay a little more off than usual, so my coping mechanism is silliness.

StillHere - proof read - who has time for that...i am lucky if I remember to put spaces between my words!

Pony - i wanted a horse as a girl - a paint mustang - i wanted to ride it bare back like an indian girl...hair blowing in the wind

the whole - i want a soul mate i want it to be easy - goes back to what Mark was talking about - about entitlement...

Rant for today - Thin Mints are SOOOO good ...i think they might have some sort of drug in them.

Ok.....we have ANOTHER poster who is gonna try the whole "Plan-B-while-the-WS-is-still-living-at-home" thing.....

Did they NOT read up on PLAN B????

Did they misunderstand what EXACTLY Dr. H says when it comes to Plan B????

Is Plan B REALLY that hard to grasp?????

I have been here for 2 1/2 yrs now.....and there have been quite a few people that have tried this....

AND IT FAILED....

EVERY

SINGLE

TIME!!!!!

The marriage ended up in DIVORCE....

The very OPPOSITE thing that the BS had wanted to happen.....

(and as a side note.....9 times out of 10, the ones who try this fool-hearty insanity were MEN!!!!!.....is this just another example of how men DON'T FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS??..... ...I truly don't mean to get all male-bashing here, but jeez....)

I just don't get this.....

I feel like I am butting my head against the wall every time I read about this.....

.....

I may have to start a new thread about this....(and the DANGERS of this insane Plan.....)....

GOOD GRIEF people....READ THE INSTRUCTION MANUAL!!!!

So what exactly are you saying Not2fun?

Since I'm here I've had this rant for awhile ........

I wish posters would tag on a sig line of their sitch!!!!!

Would make it sooooo much easier to keep posters sitch's straight. (if only in my head)

Ahhhh, rant over.

women want a H to provide security - paycheck - be there for issues.
Most Wives think their H ignores them anyway.

SOOOO they plan b their wives - dont interact - hide in their man cave...how is this different from before the plan? Your THERE...you provide a paycheck...you kill spiders and change lightbulbs...she is gonna get what she needs from you and her affection from someone else...DUMMMMMMM.

further example of how men dont get what women really need.


Oh no - my husband is ignoring me - but i can keep seeing my sleezeoid boyfriend and my husband will be in the house paying for stuff...hes not talking to me but thats okay cause scum bucket will talk to me...woo hoo I am a princess who gets to eat cake and ice cream at same time.

DUMMY - she needs to be alone - depending on scumbucket for EVERYHTING. He needs to see how needy she is so he can drop her like shes hot and RUN for the hills...THEN..if she comes to her senses and realizes what a user she was...then you let her come home.

Seriously men dont get women if they think plan b at home will work.

Plan B at home only works if you kick her butt out!!!

a good plan b example is in a way in the Diary of a mad black women.

Crack hoe wife = kicked out...living on streets.
BH loves her but wont talk to her or help her
She gets act straight
she comes home
he loves her...but only once she is straight



Real quick - today is loretta lynns 73rd birthday i believe...She was a BW who kicked butt and took names and kept her man

Not arguing but just want to point out that the beginning of the forums says this:

"Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts. "

I was going to post on here my own rant about 'entitlement' (WW has me fired up about that) but then this subject popped up again. Sorry if this is the wrong place but.....

Plan B under same roof

OK, I get it and I understand. I have read about as much as I can on the subject and I agree that it can't be done.

What the heck are you supposed to do in a situation like mine?

I have received TONS of outstanding help here all strongly recommending that I DO NOT LEAVE the marital home on account of my children- they need me in their life now more than ever and possible future custody fight.

Additionally I have also received some more outstanding help recommending that I need to move towards a Plan B.

Both recomendations that I completely agree with.

Now, in my situation, my WW refuses to leave the marital home. I have even offered to buy her a one-way ticket to Australia. I also refuse to leave the home, but really should go to a dark Plan B. If I pack her up and change the locks, she knows she can come back in and I know she would.

Something has got to give as they are diametricly opposed to each other. Naturaly, I (and others in similar boat) try in vain to figure out a way to do a Plan B under the same roof.

The next best thing that I have found was that 180 plan, which is not a MB concept.

I wrestle with the thought of forgoing the care and welfare of my boys vs. my own personal sanity. No contest- the boys win. But then the M loses.

I'm sure this has come up in other situations in the past, but I can't find any. What if anything can be done here?

Wife filled - you have two sons - man i am so sorry - really sorry...as a WW - i dont understand how she could look her sons in the face - explain that mommy doesnt love daddy any more and is leaving them. How can she handle the fear and pain on their face and not give a crap!!!

I am sorry this makes me angry as a mother.

Are you in california....i would drive over there and rip her a new one. Its bad enough to do this to your H...but your sons...

who you gave birth to
and nurse
and fed

I get angry I tell you...a mother who will not sacrfice everything for her children should have ovaries removed...seriously time to deply the FWW ATEAM!!!...rubber hoses - where is luri when i need her...

I understand - believe me.

I am the WS here but my BH has long suffered from anger issues. He has physically assulted me twice (once before and once after my ONS)...after DDAY - he has spent the last 10 months reminded me daily of what I did to him and us. I have been on the edge of driving my car into a wall the guilt hurt so bad. He is not a BH who has embrassed the MB plan. Its been tough. But I do it because 1) I do love my BH with all my heart but 2) I saw the look of fear in DS11s face the night I told him what I had dont to daddy and that daddy might not be able to forgive me...that daddy and I might be getting a divorce. The fear and sadness on my sons face for the months afterwards...the unsureness of my DS9...the confusion of DS6...What I did I did in ignorance. I believed my own lies that what I was doing would not harm my family. I believed the lies that if I was happy - my H would be happy and my sons would be happy. But once I saw the proof in my children...saw the proof of the damage my actions caused on BHS face = how the hell can you continue this behavior once you look into your childs face and see the fear...damn I am angry.

SisterReed- I loved to read your post. To see a woman so pationate about protecting her children and family from the devestation that divorce causes.

My ww filed too. She has decided that the man she met online is where her happiness resides. Our kids are falling behind in school, and she refuses to even return calls to the teachers.

I have my kids in therapy. D10, S7, and D5 in therapy. So sad. this is the time of life they should be in dance classes, and soccer, and scouts. Instead they get to talk with a Doctor about how the destruction of their family is affecting them.

How can you decide that your "soul mate" and the possibility of life with him, outweighs all of the people in your life?

It is.

This is for RANTS

easy - society today says stupid stuff like - if your happy your kids will understand. They use phrases like "in an airplane you should first put the O2 mask on yourself before your child..that means to be a good mom you need to take care of your needs first.

WRONG

by virtue of the fact that your a parent you must care for your children first...the 15 hours of UA between a spouse is okay BECAUSE child benefit from parents being deeply in love.

my BH doesnt believe me - but if at the end of the road he chooses to divorce me - i will accept his decision...and devote myself to my children. I came to the conclusion that attention take from my children and given to any other man besides THEIR FATHER - is time stolen from my boys.

UA time between husband and wife - dr. harley proves in the His Needs Her Needs for parents book (which is great btw)...benefits the children. Children are happier and better adjusted when parents are deeply in love. They are secure and assured.

What are these little boys learning from their mother - someday she may stop loving them....she stopped loving daddy...why not them? Thats what kids learn from divorce - the one place that should be safe....isnt. the people who should love them can stop. My DS9 asked me if he could do something so naughty that daddy would stop loving him to. I asked him why - he said - he stopped loving you when you cheated on him...you asked him to forgive you...he couldnt...if he cant forigve you..maybe he cant forgive me...

thats what divorce and adultry teaches a child...a lesson they should NEVER have to learn..

WS - what are you teaching your children when you choose an OP over them

BS - if your WS is repentant and you cant forgive and let go of anger - so to...what are you teaching your children.

this whole thing is sin blown up big and set up on a stage large enough for the world to see every putred detail. the ripple affects go on and on....


seriously luri - FWS ATEAM time...if I could....i would.

RANT RANT RANT.

PEPPERBAND gave me a great idea and it is taking me to the POOR house. Drop your loonie in the pickle jar and move on. Argh. HEHEHEHE Okay I was J/K

My rant is this

WAYTURDS SUCK AZZ.

also, it makes me CRAZY when people won't do the basic things on this board like READ all of the FREE info. I mean have you ever tried to go to another site about anything? Usually it is a bunch of reproduced HOOIE that really isn't anything and if you want to know, you only have to pay a SMALL fee. You CAN get A LOT of FREE info on here. All it is going to cost you is TIME. If you can't even spend the TIME to read some things for FREE, then how are you going to take time to do anything that is going to help your M?

I also agree, PLease put something in your sig that will let us all know where you are at and your basic info. I don't have a great memory for names and sometimes I don't have enough time to reread a 100 pages thread to figure out where you are at.

Thanx, that felt better.

WW's with GINORMOUS sense of entitlement.

Who the he!! made her empress? Some preconceived notion of being God's gift to humanity and now everyone in the world owes you everything? You 'deserve' all the 'cake' you can cram down your vile spewing orifice just by blessing the world with your presence.

Never lived on your own- went from mamma & pappa's house to college w/3 roomates to providing husband (AKA sugar daddy). Never worked outside the home unless you wanted to as a cure for self-inflicted boredom.

Become SAHM, yet do almost zero domestic chores. "Somebody" will do that. Doesn't matter that 'somebody' is the guy who just worked 14 hours to pay for the 'things' that bring you comfort and joy. Oh, and when that 'somebody' leaves his family to serve his country, go ahead and delight in the fact that now you get all that extra combat pay so you can buy more happiness. Use that money to hire a cleaning service so you now have 'people' for that stuff.

Sit around and read or watch TV as the mood fits. Oblivious to the sacrifices made by those who care for and provide for your 'happiness'. Never realizing that happiness comes from the inside.

Decide you need more so in the never-ending quest for your own happiness above all, start an A. That makes you happy. You 'deserve' to be happy after all.

Nevermind the damage. That's not important and doesn't affect YOU. Continue to DEVOUR those around you that care- BH, kids, mom, dad, friends- gobbling up hearts and hope faster than a black hole in space.

Then expect- completely expect and demand- that the love and materiel you have grown accustomed to continue to be provided by all of the above even after being exposed. Well, you are YOU after all, and YOU deserve it!

Pout, scream, cry, demand, tattle to lawyer to GET what you are entitled to because that is what has worked in the past. How dare they deny you?

Why? Why are you so entitled to whatever you want without working for a darn thing? Why do you deserve to have everything in life served to you? Why?

OK. Done ranting. Thanks.

I have a rant about a totally different subject. Came home yesterday and the water was turned off. City put a lock on the meter. We've had the same account for 15 years. Never late on a payment. H makes payments electronically, so something must have gone wrong. Not even a warning note or a call. Oh, and H was out of town. He told me to get the bolt cutters and cut the lock, but I decided against that.
Funny thing is, we have a well on the property, and a year or so ago, H ran some lines from the well to the house so that if we had a hurricane and lost water pressure, we could still flush toilets, etc. Went in the garage, closed the valve to the city water, opened the line to the well, and voila! Flushing toilets again. I just wish I could live on well water, I'd tell the city to take a giant leap.

Yeah, I'm behind, but I'm here SR! I don't have any rubber hoses, but I have a really big rain stick in my classroom. That could do same damage. The FWW A-Team...I pity the fool who cheats on their spouse!

I can't comment on entitlement right now because too many curse words come to mind

Oh and since this is for rants...WHY DO GOOD FOODS HAVE CALORIES?!?!?!

Epic rant, SoL, just epic!

Makes my own WW and her sense of entitlement look like Mother Theresa.

... I just can't think of a rant. I am with you thought Luri- you guys are way ahead of us over that side of the pond - have you not invented calorie free chocolate yet?

Please can I join the A-Team and kick [censored] for the children?

OK PM, agreed, I just hate it when posters criticize MY posts, how's that.

Or the posters that begin with..."I've never had to deal with infidelity BUT......." well, I guess it's good for a disclaimer.

Honestly, I don't even read other people's posts on a thread, just the thread's author. So I give advice that is different, or the same as other posters. And unless someone is giving anti-MB advice, I just let it go... Some folks have to dissect every post that comes along, judging whether each post has good advice or bad advice, according to them...so be it...just MY pet peeve.

ST - of COURSE you can join the A-Team... I think I might be Mr. T of the group!

RANT about deadbeat dads...

As many of you know my daughter just got out of an abusive relationship and has filed for custody of her children. (They were never married.) There is a protective order in place and he has supervised visitation at a family violence center. The visitation hasn't started yet, even though it was ordered in Nov. 2009, because of delays by him and my daughter both. There has also been a social study ordered that hasn't been completed yet for the same reasons. He delayed paying for it and then things have come up.

Anyway, child support was also ordered in November 2009. He has not paid ONE SINGLE DIME. So, the trial was supposed to be Tuesday. My daughter will be awarded managing conservatorship because there is family violence and Texas says automatically, no way, no how, is he getting custody.

He shows up for the trial and tells the judge he's not ready because they haven't completed their social study. The Judge is a little ticked off but then decides this has gone on long enough and she will take whatever is completed at the time of the new trial date in about a month.

In the middle of this hearing he tells the Judge, "I would like a paternity test." Hello??? He's whining about visitation and getting a social study done and NOW he's wants to prove that the kids aren't his (so he can get out of paying child support!) They are his by the way, no doubt there.

The Judge who is basically scratching her head about his DNA request, says, okay, you can have your DNA test but you have to pay for it. It's $450 per child, that's $900!!! No problem you're honor, I'll pay for it. Huh?? He can pay for a DNA test but he can't pay child support?!?!

At the end of the hearing the Judge finally addresses the child support. Why haven't you paid BabyDaddy? Um, hem, ham, uh, I can't find a job. The Judge is like, really? Tell ya what Mr. BabyDaddy. When you come to court for the trial, I expect you to have every single penny of your child support paid. If you don't, here's what will happen-- I don't believe in putting parents in jail who don't pay child support -- I have a special arrangement with the Texas Highway Department. If you haven't paid the child support, the very next morning you will report to the Courthouse at 8:00 a.m.

You will go to work for the Texas Road Department every day from 8:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. and bring your own lunch. You will do this until the child support is paid. If you don't show up for work, I will immediately issue an arrest warrant and you will sit in jail until you can figure out how important child support is. Your children's shoes aren't free, their food is not free, their clothes are not free. Their mom is carrying 100% of the burden and that is just wrong. You are OBLIGATED to support your children.

Oh, and if you don't get the paternity test results back to me by the day of trial then I will make a ruling that you are the father of the children.

So he walks into the hearing that morning expecting to delay the trial because he knows he hasn't paid child support. He walks out now owing $950 for the paternity test and the full amount of the child support by the time he comes back.

Yesterday, he files a motion to modify temporary orders wanting to change his supervised visitation from the family violence center (which he has has to pay for every single visit) to his mother's house. This is the same mother who helped him hide my grandson from my daughter for three weeks when this all started. This is the same mother who was arrested for Family Violence against HIM several years ago. Yeah, that's in the best interest of my grandchildren. Ain't happening!

He is the definition of "Deadbeat Dad"!

Whatadumbass.

PS: I love this judge.

I know! I had to struggle not to smile. But would you believe as he and his mother were leaving the court room, his mother says to him, "That went well!" (she was serious). He says, "Oh yeah, now I can go party for my birthday." She says, "I gotcha."

It's like are you kidding me? Were you guys in the same courtroom as we were? They just don't get it and haven't a clue on what's coming down the pike.

{{{{shaking head}}}}

I second Pep's assessment on this man.

Their cluelessness goes beyond this situation, of that I am sure.

OMG! PM.

for your DD and what she is going thru with this waste of space. BTW LOVE the judge, can you clone him and send NZ a copy? We need judges like him.

Thanks Lil, that's what I was talking about on FB with my "pride before the fall and popcorn" post. Can't post it there, TMI, if you KWIM.

Ugh. ((PM)))

My rant for today.

SNOW in the forecast for this weekend.

'nuff said.

Divorce planning parties.

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/divorce_is_so_divine_K0pHi8Bc9dVM3vCGihRswN

Unbelieveable- the women in the article have children and were attending a party to find out out to destroy their families.

Disgusting, disgusting, disgusting.

I thought this little gem particularly worthy


Never a moment of introspection. Never a moment of 'how have I contributed?' Just ME ME ME. My needs, My wants... The entitlement is horrifying.

It's angering how society has decided to support and celebrate the destruction of families.... Yeah this is going to end well.

[emphasis mine]

I'm struggling with how to "RANT" about this in order to stay within the bounds of this thread, without "smacking" SisterReed too very hard...I see SisterReed as a GOOD EGG - She is learning and applying what she's learning very well, from my POV...I just think there is a bit of confusion here...

I suppose my "rant" is FWSs not owning ALL of the destruction that their adultery has wrought...

A FWS being repentant doesn't obligate the BS to remain married to them...

There is a difference between forgiveness and restoration of the relationship...

So while Christians ARE commanded to forgive a repentant person, they are NOT commanded to restore the relationship...

A BS absolutely can forgive a repentant FWS AND choose not to restore the relationship...That is their right...

It is a mistake to try and lay blame at the feet of the BS for any part of what adultery teaches children...The BS did not invite this destruction into their family...The WS did that - all on their own...

To qualify as a FWS, imo, you must own the whole kit and caboodle...

SisterReed, I think you are doing a great job for the most part, and I hope you take my "rant" in the spirit that it was intended...

Mrs. W

SisterReed-

Thank you for validating my feelings here. If you ever assemble your A-Team, let me know and I'll give you my address!



Unfortunately, I am not in California, I'm in Illinois.

My rant today -- counselors who flirt with their "clients"

What is their problem??? Someone comes to them and spills their guts. The counselor knows they are hurting in areas. So let's cross the line?!? I am a teacher - I have taught students from five years old to 50 years old. When you are in a posotion of "authority" or influence, you stay back. Then, on top of that, the person you "counsel" has to deal with your crap on top of their own now. Shame on them!!! I just cannot believe that after I got up the courage to GO to the counselor again...he flirts? I needed someone to tell me the truth, pray, give me tools face to face, and yes, reassure me that my struggles are normal. And I did feel guilty, but not now. I didn't do anything yesterday except sit down with a counselor and talk. SHEESH!

Okay, done. Yeah, it's random, but it felt good to get that out.

T/J.....(sorry no "rant" today)

SoL,

first off, howdy neighbor....(Missouri)...

Second, did you know Mark lives in Illinois?.....

You might want to grab him and see if he has any assistance for you, if he hasn't already, also, he runs a MB program through his church, so maybe if you ever get to Recovery and you live close enough, you and Pinky could attend......

Not2fun

T/J over....

Unbelieveable it may be, I would rather WXH had gone to something like this and then asked me for a divorce rather than lying to me for a year while he cheated behind my back, only to inform me as he was already packing his bags to leave.

luri, are you saying that your counsellor flirted with you?

Some counsellors will not have one-to-one sessions with a client of the opposite sex. Some priests won't either. They arrange for someone of the same sex to be at every session, because both they are the client are vulnerable to improper behaviour, despite stringent codes of conduct and years of training.

You should leave that counsellor and see a woman in future.

Is it something you would consider reporting to his professional body?

SC, yes, he was inappropriate. I told H today, and I will only be seeing a woman from now on. Sad thing is, I don't think he has a professional body. I did some searching around online and he and his dad have a ministry. He does have a counseling degree, but I don't think there is anyone to report to. It was verbal and just a couple of hand and knee "pats," so it's a gray area. But it was uncomfortable. So he's OUT.

I'm sorry you went through this, luri, and I'm glad to hear that he's out.

But Tabby, didnt you know that the marriage was already over ...and that the reason that our WH's left us had NOTHING to do with the OW

I mean my WH said he thought I already knew what was goin on...thats why he lied and snuck around for two years, you know to cover up the affair that I supposedly already knew about...

Stupid me, my mother told me to take that mindreading class in college ...Sorry, Tab, rant over.

OMG!!! This is awesome, stillhere!!! I've been told the same thing, that the issues we have have NOTHING to do with OW! Of course not, so why the f^$# were we maybe not fine but not to this point in our marriage vs after OW came into your life?!?! What suddenly changed.... oh wait. OW!!!

dang, I needed that mindreading class too... hrm, wonder if they still offer it...

RANT ABOUT POSTERS WHO PUT BEFORE THE MB FORUM ....

I have done everything wrong and now I am asking total strangers to "fix" my life which I have hopelessly screwed up

Uhhhhhhhhh, no thank you.
Tell us YOUR ideas first.
I'm not gonna do a lazy person's leg work for them.
Read "the stuff" on MB.
THINK about "the stuff" on MB.
Then, think of ways to use "the stuff" on MB.

Lazy people want others to do their fixing, instead of doing it themselves.
I'm tired of it.

/RANT

rant

I am tired of people who play chicken and then cry when they get hit by a car. Don't play chicken if you aren't man enough to deal with the consequences! /rant

RANT RANT RANT about the people who have an affair and marry a HORRIBLE person and then try to pass them off as a good person.... they just made one little mistake, again and again and again....


Seriously if you think an unrepentant serial adulterer is really a good person who just made 'a few mistakes' ..... ugh...

Rant with a capital R!

Daughter went to ER with double-her-over abdominal pain. She recently had an emergency appendectomy so we were concerned to say the least. Turns out she has a kidney infection that she let go too long. Doc prescribed antibiotics and pain meds.

She drops off her Rx and then calls the pharmacy to asks the cost of each med. Naturally, the pain med was the least expensive. Daughter doesn't get paid for a couple of days. She goes to the pharmacy and asks for the pain med explaining she will pick up the antibiotic when she gets paid.

The pharamcist calls the hospital and tells them that she is there and only wants the pain meds, doesn't WANT the antibiotic. They say no, can't get one without the other. She is appalled. She tells the pharmacist (who is surprised by her reaction) to call the hospital back and explain the TRUTH.

He made it sound like she only wanted the pain meds, period. He calls back the hospital and they understand and say sure, release the pain meds. She AGAIN explains to the pharmacist she only has enough for one Rx. He ends up paying for her antibiotic out of his own pocket (out of guilt?)

He told her he was questioning her only for her own good. She needed to treat the symtpom rather than mask it. Agreed... but since he is not a doctor she will rely on the doctor's advice to take both.

I understand that there probably are drug abusers out there who probably do go to the ER for the sole purpose of getting pain meds but to assume just because she's young that she is one of them is wrong! She was totally embarassed and humilated by what he did in front of other customers. I told her she should file a complaint.

he hadnled this VERY poorly. He could have dicreetly asked her why she only wanted to pain med and then discreetly checked with the hospital. The whole pharmacy didn't need to know!

My best friend is a pharmacist, and I will say that THEY get dragged through a lot of crap if they do let a drug seeker slip through the cracks. So I understand why he is careful, but he could do it in a non-embarassing way.

Exactly! And he could have worded it better to the hospital in the first place.

RANT!

Posters woh have been here longer than a few weeks, in fact who have been here months and are still staying on their own threads, refusing to look at the 1000's of great threads, articles and posts. Instead they sit there and ask us to come running to them.

When there are newbies who need real help
When they have been told how to find things


They don't really engage anyway. Just turn up every few days and yell help!



[/rant]

Saw two of my colleagues smooching in the car park this morning. He is married with three beautiful daughters. She is separated with four beautiful sons and her H works here too.

They thought they were being so careful and discreet. From my vantage point above I could see it all. I suspected something was going on for a while. Since my H�s A I can smell adulterers from a mile away (one of my new super powers that I just love � NOT!).

I wish I had never seen them. It�s been playing on my mind all day.

What a couple of DUMB A$$ selfish idiots. So many children�s lives they are just crapping all over.

I�m hacked off that they are doing it. I�m hacked off that I had to see it.

Hacked of BIG TIME! Dumb a$$ waywards!

Did you tell her BH? What about a call to his BW? I am sorry that you witnessed this, but there was a reason. You must do something with it.

Agreed. Scotland is right. You need to be a hero.

Too many people witness crimes and refuse to get involved. "It's not my problem."

Maybe if more people stood up for what's right, wrong wouldn't happen as often and without consequences.

Expose.

ITA

if your not comfortable, or believe you will be adversely affected by fall out, gather a bit of proof one way or another (snap a pic on your cell if you see it again, they WILL slip up again) and send it to the BW anonymously

I like the phone idea....and wouldn't it be a shame if that pic somehow got pasted on the break room wall or something. I guess you could get into trouble for that though. I called out a couple of posters on another forum (not MB, but a Christian one!!!) who kept flirting back and forth about a month ago. I think they blocked me. Oh well.

I am sorry you had to see that. I can't imagine what a terrible trigger it must have been.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH Why are the people in the world so AHHHHHHHHHHHHH?

I was at work. I was on cash. I had a lady talk to me about Tom Cruise. Then she says, "And what about Tiger Woods? Why can't they give him a break. So he had a little fun. He only lives once." I was SCREAMING on the inside, but since I was at work(and wanted to literally jump over the counter and throttle the woman), I just looked at her and said, "Have a nice day." DO NOT ENGAGE THE STUPID PEOPLE.

Then I was sitting on my break and there was a Hello mag and it had something about Tiger and Elin on the cover. I had it sitting in front of me(it doesn't really bother me to read it anymore). One of my co-workers whom is well aprised of my sitch says, "You know, although Tiger did something horrible, I think Elin is stupid for taking him back. I mean come on." I looked at her and said, "Is that what you think about me too?" Then the back pedaling started, "Well no, YOU are doing the right thing. You are doing it the right way. You are my friend and I would support you whichever way you choose to go." Hmmmmmm Me thinks I don't believe her. HEHEHEHEHE

It is good that I am strong in my convictions and beliefs in the MB way. I am so glad to be a part of this wonderful cult. OOPS. My turned into a lovefest of MB at the end, teeeheehehehe

Scotland, I applaud you for showing self control with that lady who made the "had a little fun" comment. I would have smiled really sweetly and then said something totally condescending and guilt-inducing, like "I know. I can't believe we expect him to be faithful to his wife and children as if he cares about them. How judgmental." I have noticed that the older I get, the less I tend to employ the bite-my-tongue method. But really, if people are going to be allowed to spew their twisted lack of morals all over the television, movies and radio, then I should be able to make a snarky remark every now and then.

I think part of the problem is that the media has made the declined morals of our society - OK.
What waywards do is not OK, not for the family, and definitely not for the kids - no matter what age. Breaking up a family is devastating for everyone.
Stupid, selfish waywards.
I agree - do not engage the stupid people.

Mymissy, that "lady" might as well as said "So what if Tiger Woods set off a bomb off on his family, he was just having a little fun, give him a break, I mean he didnt actually KILL his family, just maimed them."

I thought that we were supposed to stay on our on threads? I am confused by your rant.

I have a rant by the way.....I am feeling down once again....I think it's when one raises expectations even a tiny bit then something happens to shoot it down...you are on your face.

Spouse has been working 7days a week and long hours...but told me Sun he would leave around noon....and we would spend the rest of the day together...go shopping for each of our Mom's for Mother's day....I was excited and was up at 6:30am....did all his laundry and got things all set....by 1pm I realized he wasn't coming home....so I called him at work...no answer...waited until 1:30 called again....no answer....he called me back around 3pm and acted like he had never told me anything....I reminded him and he said "oh yeah, I got a problem here and well that's not gonna happen".....I feel like I have been stood up for a date....except it's all time for 20yrs...the same thing.

Feel like a fool....So I dont' even know if I was supposed to be upset or just feel nothing.....I wish I could cut out my feelings and throw them away.

Gemstone, you are free to read and post on threads...I think lil' is talking about reading other threads and reading the information on the MB website....There is a plethora of information to help newbies.

RANT I am so tired of the impatience and assumtions made about other posters.

Maybe the newbe is in shock from D day and can just hold it together enough to post a hello, and it's happening to them. Maybe it will be weeks before they are able to come forward and express what is happening to them.

There is so much pain and loss from this that they might not understand the articles, in the stater they find themselves in. Maybe they are in the anger stage of the grief and the desire to take out their frustrations on the OM/OW feels justifyed in their eyes. And if someone doesn't agree, then they don't understand where that person is.

I've read the material, and it took quite a while. I registered months before ever posting, so I could try to apply the principles before asking for help. My marriage is ending. Waywards do not always return, no matter how much you do.

I just wish , before we blast someone for their post we could step back and realize that everyone is in their own storm. Remember what it was like when you were in the worst part of your storm. You feel like no one else has ever felt this pain and loss.

Go back and look at the posts by people who are currently wayward, or the OM/OW. Many of them only post a few times, and then they never post again. I wonder what could have been said to help them come out of the fog? By posting here they were at least peeking out of it.

I just have to rant for a nanosecond about the fact that there is this thing called the First Ammendment. I wish people would wipe the chips off their shoulders and get a grip sometimes. There, that's all I've got to say about that.

"Go back and look at the posts by people who are currently wayward, or the OM/OW. Many of them only post a few times, and then they never post again. I wonder what could have been said to help them come out of the fog? By posting here they were at least peeking out of it."

So, did you do your part & post to the folks in the way you wish others would post?

- posted from my phone

Yay Pep!! Nice to see ya!

Go ahead and read the posts I have left others. I believe I have attempted to post in exactly that way. I do not say this to say I am any better than any of you. Some of you have a Doctorates equivalent in experience, while I am struggling in my freshman year.

I have not been in the fog, nor wayward, nor an OM/OW, Or a BW or Bkid, so my advice in those situations can only be from someone who is looking from the outside. Believe me, I despise OM/OW's. But if something could be given to them to bring them back to their family, thats what we need to give. Some of you made it out, and could very well be the reason another wayward returns.

But I have been a BH and so I can empathize and fully understand their feelings through this storm. I have felt much of the same through my situation. I know it's not the same for a BW or Bkids. Affairs destroy everyone, just in different ways.

I do not post a lot. I read many of the posts, but do not believe I have anything further to add to what was already posted by others. There is great advice given most of the time. But there are also occasions where responses become personal, and not intended to help.

Or the responder's become weary from telling someone the basically the same thing, because the post's originator remains stuck in the same place. For what ever reason, the post's originator has not taken the steps, that we all believe would help them. Maybe they are afraid of losing more, maybe they can't see how it applies to their specific situation. Telling them that they were already told what to do, is not very helpful.

However, the fact remains that the OM/OW's and waywards that drop in once in a while, those that are currently in that state. And maybe there is another approach to get them to stay and open up to Dr. Harley's principles.

What Stillhere said..in 3 sentances.. while I used up 3 times as many

I just meant that if a poster has been here for longer than I few weeks, I dont expect I need to spoon feed then anymore. They are capable of looking around the forums for themselves. I do find the odd person refuses to and it irks me.

Here's one.

It's the line of sweats and I guess you call it athletic wear for girls with the brand "Pink" written across the rear.

I personally feel that "pink" is a little suggestive, especially when it's written in bold across the azz of a pair of too short shorts.

Nothing like sending your 12-year old daughter out in public with a billboard that says "vagina" emblazened across the azz of inappropriately short shorts.

End rant.

I have a rant too .. my MIL told me a few days ago she cant wait to make my 12 yo a string bikini just to bug me. I was like .. I dont think so. Her response was "Its cute and its not like shes being permiscuous or becoming sexually active" and my response was ... that its not cute becasue she is starting to develope and dressing like that sends the wrong signals to the boys. I feel its inappropriate for my DD to dress as such but MIL seems to completely disagree and thinks its ok cause she is still young. I say ... make her a one piece bathing suit. NOT a string bikini. If she recieves it ... i think it may end up in the trash.

Grandma needs to get a clue!

OMG, this one is hysterical to me, only because i NEVER thought of that....I am a little slow though.

If I saw a girl with shorts on and the word 'pink' on the seat of it, my first thought would be the colour a butt goes after a spanking. I must be a parent

OH Lil.

They also make them that say cute, phat (which might be accurate - though misspelled), and juicy. UGH!

They make them for children as young as 5 years old. That is even more disgusting. It's hard to teach girls that they are more than just their bodies when the media and the world is telling them to sexify themselves. SICK SICK SICK.

1 step- As far as your rant, do you know how many times I want to rant, "I GET SO ANGRY WHEN SOME POSTERS DON'T FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF DrH and then COMPLAIN that it isn't working. Come on PEOPLE, JUST READ ALREADY."

It is hard when someone has been here for weeks or months and all they have done is posted to us and then argue when we gave them answers.

Waywards and AP are given a lot of 2x4's because that seems to be what wakes them up. Eventually if they really want to end their ways and move on, they will "get it." Just ask the FWSs who are regular posters. It isn't the hand holding and kid gloves that is going to help them. They need a wake up call.

As a BW, I came to these boards with the thought that my WH was in an EA. I was reluctant to follow through with all of the advice. I remember someone(I think it was catperson) tell me that I was in a fog of my own. I was MAD. How dare she? She was so right. I also remember the day that Pepperband told me that if I didn't want to do this the MB way, she would move on. Others posted that I should listen to Pep, she knew what she was talking about. THAT and THAT ALONE is what woke me up. If she had treated me with kindness, it wouldn't have worked.

There are posters on here who have been here for MONTHS and still don't know who OP is. How does that help them? There are even posters who do only parts of the plans. Some who throw 180 plan in. There is a PLAN written by DrH. We should try to follow it as best as we can with NO deviations. It would be best to call the counseling center, but not everyone will. We as posters, try to live as closely as we can to what DrH has stated in his books and on this site.

There, I think I am done.....for now.

What Scotland said and I hate that chocolate ice cream stains.

If someone gets angry about the truth, then the problems is theirs, not the person who told it. Now, I am all for tact, being southern and everything. But I didn't need someone to say "I know how you feel, it hurts to be wayward, you'll do the right thing when you're ready." The friend - and I use the term loosely - who dealt with me that way just enabled my me-ism. It was the friends who said, "You confessed to God? Not good enough. Tell your husband. I'll keep your kids over here so you can talk to him."

Is that because some of the ice cream ended up on your shirt instead of in your mouth? If so, I totally understand that rant....

Maybe you guys should use a spoon next time.

"like"

(wait, I thought I was on Facebook)

I couldn't agree more. The replys I have received tell more about the poster than me. If you have read my posts you see that I have stated that most of the advice is spot on.

My posts are about trying to find some middle ground between the "you'll do the right thing when you are ready" and the " you haven't done what I said, so I am done posting to you, you need to to grow up and be a man" type posts. I realized I might draw some Ire from my posts, but this information is too valuable. And when the "joey's" or the "Noromeos" show up here no amount of you need to grow up and stop being a child, will encourage them.

Are you telling me that when any wayward , who is in the heat of the storm, will listen to their spouse or a stranger who tells them they need to do x or else we won't help you any further? Would you have listened?

There are posts here where the originator has not responded in just 2 days, and the board decides he is not listening, and to move on. Life is not so perfect that everyone can post daily or even every other day. If you are tired of posting to an individual, because they appear to not be listening, then don't post.

Pepperband called Mrs. Wondering a jerk when she showed up here as a wayward, and Mrs. Wondering listened.

I think after awhile it gets easy to tell who really wants to do the right thing and who has cushioned their story with so much "background information" it's obvious they don't that it's their responsibility.

I understand your feelings, but you have to remember how confusing, and scared, and worried, and in pain you are when this happens to you. Expecially in the beginning when it seems like no one understands, because they haven't been through anything like this.

I understand the weeks and months become too long with no forward movement. But there are posts here, where the originator has been here less then a week, and it has been "decided" that he won't "call the OWH" because he is a child. Sorry that is not too long of a time, or giving good advice. He came here looking for help. I wish every wayward would. and we judge him in less than a week, that he is beyond help. Really?? He was being open with us, which shows some intent to turn his life around. He mentioned how open he was being with his wife. Good signs. Maybe just talk, but we have to go with what we have. He stated he started reading the articles posted here. Now he's gone....

As fogginess, I agree. There is so much happening, that everyone involved, falls into some fogginess. Was your 2x4 from Pepperband in less than a week from you coming to the board? Maybe a little more patience with the people who are going through the worst thing they have ever encountered.
I have not said that we need to go easy on waywards, but if we are too hard on them, then they leave, and that family loses. Again I say that there are many reasons that people only follow parts of the plans. Maybe they are afraid to contact the OWH? or maybe they feel like they have lost so much, that going NC will drive their wayward further away? Could they think their situation is so different, and that parts of the advice will not work for their wayward? I don't know why some people don't want to try whatever parts they decide to omit. I do know that this process takes time, and that is what they need.

When I came here I showed my wife the site, we did the questionairs. And found out some things we never really knew about each other. We even drew up a poja. My wife did not want to post our sitch, or attend counseling, so with the POJA, we didn't. I worked plan A till June. Then I was served divorce papers. She is living with her OM, today. I am raising our kids, she sees them only 4 days a month.

Every situation is different. Even waywards know what they are doing is wrong. I hate to see the opportunity to save their family lost because they "appear" to not be following the advice given.

wow i would love to see that thread....

.....OMG, sorry wrong thread.

If I was simlutaneously burning my hand on a hot stove AND stabbing someone else in the back, I would hope no one would wait until I felt like stopping. Cause affairs are just that serious. It's like when a bratty kids is screaming and kicking at the store. I can't stand seeing the mom stoop down and say, "Honey precious sweetie baby, Mommy would be so happy if you could use your indoor voice."

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. Sometimes you need a 2x4 upside the head. Sometimes you need gentle chiding. Some folks are better at the lumber, some at the coaxing.

I think we need both types here. Think of it as "Good Cop, Bad Cop." Getting people out of a WS mindset isn't cookie cutter.

Getting them out of that mindset, however, is the goal.

Whatever works.

Since I'm bipoplar I can be both cops

Where is everyone getting these smileys from? Some of them are outrageous!

So would I !!!

Not egg zak lee correct.

Only a jerk would make up a story like that HAHAHAHAHAHA

For smileys: http://www.freesmileys.org/

[quote=markos
Pepperband called Mrs. Wondering a jerk when she showed up here as a wayward, and Mrs. Wondering listened. [/quote]

It took me a little while to find the refrence. Here is what I found Mrs. Wondering came here 7/1/05. She was given supportive advice from everyone. It was not until 3 weeks later that the "Jerk" comment came up. While it was not directed at her, but at all people who have affairs, but she was offended

"I was truly upset by some of the posts left for me regarding this issue...I asked for and expected 2 X 4's, however, I was unaware that 2 X 4's took on the appearance of personal attacks. Never in any of my posts have I said that the OM was to blame for MY A, I do except full blame for what I did, I understand that only I can control MY actions. I never expected what amounts to name calling on this board and I can almost be certain that Dr. Harley wouldn't do that in counseling. I came here trying to understand and learn...knowing full well that I will make mistakes along the way." -Mrs Wondering 7/20/05

"�Pep...are you trying to give me clarity or are you simply trying to engage me? Is this just personal venting for you? I'm not trying to be mean to you, in fact I have read many of your posts to others and have learned some valuable stuff from them. Please forgive me if am just being over- sensitive as I am quite new in my recovery...�- Mrs Wondering 7/20/05

And she did state that she was offended by the personal attacks on the 20th, if this had been in less than a week, and she had been a little foggier, she may have left.

When you see such an opportunity, run with it.



Why not do this yourownself?

Expecting others to do what you won't do yourownself is ..... What?


[/quote]

If I had chosen not to do the right thing regarding my A because some strangers were mean to me, then I didn't really want help to begin with. It's just one more set of people for me to blame for my own actions.

Posting from a phone SUCKS

/rant

Active waywards are acting like jerks and sometimes they need a little to see that in order for them to move forward...I would love to see what Mrs.W thinks of this now, I am sure she believes it contributed to her coming out of the fog.

When my mother scolded me as a teen I hated her, but in the long run, looking back I am so glad she did....I am a better person for it.

I agree that affairs are serious, however, I have never stated that we need to treat the waywards with kid gloves, but deciding they are beyond help in less than a week is like "well we tried, oh well, good-bye" So then we walk away with them still burning their hands, and stabbing someone else in the back. Maybe it's because we see it here so many times, that we lose our patience with waywards. To a new wayward, this is new, and strange, and difficult.

If someone has been here for a while, they might be getting frustrated over all of the waywards doing the same thing. and don't give the new waywards a fair shake.

It's not the 2x4 use that I speak of, but the impatience shown to people who are suffering from their decisions. When we can decide that they have 1 week to do as we say, or we are done with them, then maybe we are not following the principles of MB ourselves.

[/quote]

Sorry I don't follow, I believe I have treated everyone here with respect. I am not able to post to ever situation, or every day. When I get a chance to reply, I do so. Sometimes there are days or a week between. But If you see a gap in my advice, or a personal attack from me, let me know. I am not perfect by any means.

I dont think people decided that they are done with them...if they dont post back, what can you say?....I take it more as a "If you want to do what you say you want to do, then get back here and take the heat so you can move forward." IDK, but thats how I take it. If they didnt care, they wouldnt say anything, heck if I was the one who "gave up" on a poster, I wouldnt post to their thread anymore, ya know? JMHO

Exactly. The mindset of a wayward is not that they will be shamed into doing the right thing. But if they reach out here, looking for advice, They are looking for help, and meaness is not help.

The wayward in question had not posted for a little over a day and a half..... when it was decided that he was gone. None of you take a break from posting, for real life issues? Expecially when your life is falling apart?

I agree , just don't post when you get tired of trying to help a peticular poster.

Reading Mrs wondering's posts was inspiring. She even noted "Thanks for allowing variation on the MB principles" when she had been given grace for not following the expectations given her.

Here's all I have:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...p;Words=jerk&Search=true#Post2370707

The issue with Joey is not that he quit posting for a little while. The issue is that he was actively saying that he wasn't going to do what needed to be done.

Anyhow, if there is a problem, there are moderators.

Its like a little kid who gets a bad grade on his report card...okay he knows hes wrong and he'll try harder next time...so his thinking is "well if I just change this grade to a good one, so my mom and dad dont know. Then I wont get in trouble and Ill just try harder next time."

Instead of taking the heat, taking his 2by4s so his mom and dad can nip it in the and hanker him down so he gets that better grade....Now, by changing the grade, if he doesnt do better whats he gonna do keep changing the grade or get caught with having changed the grade and compound the bad grade with LYING and a second bad grade....

Is it worth the gamble, well to a kid it might seem to be...but for a GROWN UP take your 2by4s and OWN up to your mistakes....and do what it takes to do what you need to do to fix it...or dont.

There is no way around the mountain....CLIMB OVER IT or you will keep goin in circles.

Almost five years after the event. Hindsight is 20/20.

But we are talking about people who are right in the midst of it. Like she was back in 2005. Go back and read the posts. She was offended at the time. And she chose to stay, Which I am sure was the best choice for her and her family. But others are not staying, and if we play any role in their leaving, then how are we practicing MB concepts?

I agree, the 2x4's do help them see reality, it is the giving up on a poster, because he hasn't done exactly what he was told, that This rant was about.

The other posters leave because they know what needs to be done and dont want to do it....so if they need help after they have made more of a mess they will be back....or they will just keep living in denial....JMHO

It seems to me that you are calling some people "mean." This could be construed as a personal attack.

If you do see persistent meanness from someone and talking to them about it doesn't fix it initially, it might be better to talk to the moderators about it rather than trying to control people with disrespectful judgments to get them to do what you believe they ought.

MB forums work because there is such a diversity of posters. If we ALL coddled and commiserated with new posters, then we wouldn't be any different from another marriage site that I'm thinking of, where everyone basically says, "there there now now, it'll be okay, I hear ya, that happened to me too," etc, and there is rarely any ADVICE or DIRECTION given to the original poster.

I have little patience for someone who comes here proclaiming to "want" help and then rejecting what they're told out of hand. The poster you're referring to, Joey?-- I suspect he posted his story just to stir things up -- that does happen you know. Regardless, people DID try to help him and then he quit posting-- probably realizing that we weren't biting.

Tell ya what. You post your way and I'll post mine, and as long as we're both offering MB advice, then that's what makes MB work.

/rant

BTW, do you know this Joey personally?

Apologies if I maligned you, Pep. I wasn't personally there to witness, and I was just going off of that one post by Mrs. W. I haven't had a chance to review the history, yet.

Oh, I am confused I thought you mentioned the "meanness" of some posters. sorry, my bad...

Hey, when you give up on someone, would it be best to just silently give up, or would it be best to make a last ditch attempt and say "I don't think this will work unless you do this ... you really have to do this ... what can I do to shake you up so that you will do this?"

[quote=markos
The issue with Joey is not that he quit posting for a little while. The issue is that he was actively saying that he wasn't going to do what needed to be done.

Anyhow, if there is a problem, there are moderators. [/quote]

So what was his real reason for not wanting to tell the OWH? Maybe he was really scared of the OWH? People generally affair down, and sad to say he was her choice, so maybe the OWH is someone to be afraid of..... Don't know, would've loved to see him turn his life around.

Some of you have so much more to offer to people in his position. And we let him go, because he was struggling to do one part of the advice. He was making changes, and doing other things to try and change his life. No more input into his life, from this forum, because of this one thing.

If these were the statement made, I agree that this is helpful. But the remarks became person, questioning whether he is a man or not. Calling him a child. Just about as different from your statement as could be. Your right he was stubborn. failed to do what he was told. But as long as he is interacting with someone, there is a chance to turn him around.

True, it's their choice to leave. but would you return to a place where you turned for help, and were belittled?

Probably, Once I put my tail between my legs, realized that I was acting stupidly and was ready to do the real work needed...but thats just me.

"This one thing" was an affair that he refused to put an end to ...

We "let him go"??? This is an online forum...we are just people behind computer screens...we do not have the ability to "hold onto" someone and keep them here. If they choose to leave, they do.

What changes did he make?? He "said" he was going NC with his AP but we all know that waywards lie. There is more going on behind the scenes here and I know for a fact that he is continuing to lie about this.

The "real reason" for him not wanting to tell the OWH is that he is hoping his AP will just leave her H for him and he won't have to deal with it.


One part?? One part??? This is the CRUCIAL part of his problem and if he did this all the other things (ending the A, NC in place) would all fall into line without any issue.

Sheesh.

Markos, if you read the post this reply was referring to, you will see that "meaness" was what they were discussing. I was mearly replying. I do not intend to place disrespectful judgements upon others. I do however, believe that a wayward who comes here looking for help should not be 1 week to do as they were told, or they are done.

I believe this was the place to "rant" about things and this was a rant that came up, when I read the way someone who came here for help, was helped.

I have tried to control no-one. I have repeatedly stated that the advice from this forum is very good most of the time. But can you tell me that the people who leave, feel that way?

I am sorry if I have angered member of the forum. It was not my intent. I hate to see an opportunity to help someone going through this, lost because of we have grown tired of seeing the same story time and again. To them this is brand new, to us it is more of the same, and we might not be giving them the same chance as we have afforded others.

Yes hindsight is 20/20 that is the point...a lot of people on this forum have the benefit of hindsight to help others, get it?

No he was working on that, he did not want to have to come clean to the OMH.

I dont know, I cant really tell what your rant was about...I guess I thought that this sentence meant something other than just abandoning a poster...maybe you need to read your rant.

I mean am I the only one confused by what the rant was about? If it is about giving up on a poster..then I think that has been addressed...That was not done. He gave up on himself.

I agree that people were trying to help him, I never said to coddle waywards or anyone for that matter. I also have not complained about the responses to this rant. You have to realize when you come to a forum, that your choices, opinions and posts, may not be received by others positivly.

I don't take it personally, I made the choice to bring this subject up. Everyone who has responded to me sees this situation their way. And maybe I am wrong about all of this. But the fact remains, that real families are being impacted by what happens here. We can no longer have a positive impact on those families, because they left.

I believe you either speak up and stand for what you believe, or remain silent and let others decide your life.

And no, I do not know Joey nor Noromeo, nor any other waywards other than my wife. My wife is just as stubborn and foggy as these waywards were, She would not listen any more than they did. I would hate to think if she were to ever come to a board for marriage building, that she would not be belittled or given up on, becasue she did not start out following the MB principles right away.

Yeah this one part is critical, and you and I see that. But He could not see that from where he was. He was peeking out of the fog, he was not fully out, but he was seeking help. Most waywards fully immersed, do not think they need any help.

Again I do not know him, so he could have been lying, If you know he was, then that would have been great information to know on his post. Exposure. I also am limited to what is posted.

True he was still wavering in his decision to go total NC with the OW. Not unlike every wayward's initial posts that I have read here. The afore mentioned Jerk statement that happened between two posters here was because of the same actions. The wayward had decided to talk with the OM one more time to clear the air. This behavior is not a surprise in waywards.

But unlike most waywards, he did come here posting for help. Telling the OWH is important, but no guaruntee that the Affair would stop, and that NC could be achieved.

[quote=stillhere8126
I dont know, I cant really tell what your rant was about...I guess I thought that this sentence meant something other than just abandoning a poster...maybe you need to read your rant. [/quote]

I can see what your saying, But when he was called a child for not adhearing to the advice of the forum, maybe, just maybe, that was not too helpful.

[quote=stillhere8126
Yes hindsight is 20/20 that is the point...a lot of people on this forum have the benefit of hindsight to help others, get it? [/quote]

I get it, how do you get people to the point of seeing what we know to be fact, if they leave?

We cant obviously, but the ones who stay and follow through, well that speaks for itself....

I can see what your saying, But when he was called a child for not adhearing to the advcice of the forum, maybe, just maybe, that was not too helpful. [/quote]

Okay, so are we back to the "meanness" again?..

You make my point. How do we get more waywards to stay long enough for the material to sink in?

If they are not gonna follow the advice givin by the people who have been there, then we really cannot help them...then the point of "getting them to stay" is moot.....If they truly are ready for change and to do what it takes, then they will stay...if not..they may leave, they may keep lurking on this website, they may wake up, they may not...we cannot control that.

Unless you want to beg them to stay and not follow the advice given? IDK, what do you think?

The responsibility for the wayward spouse who chooses not to make the right choice is on the wayward spouse. Just like AA is not to blame when someone keeps drinking, we are not the reason a wayward stays wayward. I will not claim that responsibility. This happens in our society a lot....we take on the responsibility of other people. And it never helps the person, it just makes them more entrenched. So if I am blunt and a wayward leaves, it is not I who put them or kept them in adultery. It is on THEM.

Actually, I had a therapist that I went to...and I kept goin and not following her advice and asking her what to do....It sounded like I was being logical at the time...

finally she said to me "why do you keep coming here and wasting your time, your not doing anything that I suggest." So I left.....

She was right and I am still dont have a handle on my depression, my fault not hers....but I needed to face the fact that I just wasnt ready to change yet....I am thinking of going back to her.

When I was in the hospital, after listening to me for a day, the therapist said, "So what are you going to DO? Don't you think it's time to start DOING?"

Of course, I did leave the hostpial three days later.......:)

You don't think this forum can influence their desicions? Then why post to anyone other than those who agree and already follow MB principles?

Agreed we are all responsable for our own actions.

We can only influence people to a certain extent...we are not magical. Well maybe Melodylane and Mrs and Mr W are...but the rest of us are just regular people trying to help others who will accept our help...thats all.

Wouldnt it be great if we could magically make all waywards who come on here see the error of their ways and change them...Hmmmmmm, Just a thought Dr. H.

My earlier post about "Good Cop, Bad Cop" wasn't in jest.

When I first started posting as a BH, I was dealing with my own type of fog. A few of the posters were really rough (bk comes to mind) but they opened my eyes to a few things and those who were a little more gentle were able to make some inroads. Then the next time those who were less diplomatic came around, I was actually able to listen to their points and things became more clear.

Style points can matter. Not everyone responds to 2x4's right away. Eventually, they get it.

Different methods get through to different people.

And this is when the forum is at its best, when regular people who have been through the same storms, are trying to help.

Fear overrides common sense in waywards and BS's. There are BS's that have also left or not followed advice from this forum, some return, some don't. But you don't see the same reaction to them, that you do the waywards. I understand the anger towards waywards, I do..more than you know. But the betrayed family, deserves our efforts, even if it has to come through the waywards.

I think the good cop method has been tried for the most part on these posters....then they have been talked to by the bad cop and it either wakes them up immediatly, wakes them up after a while(even if they are only lurking) or they just were not ready to do what it takes no matter what....

You just havent read enough posts to find them.

Maybe your right, I haven't been able to read every post. But even Mrs. Wondering's intial post was less adversarial than those recently posted.

I don't know what has happened in "Joey"'s situation. I was hoping to see if he would stay around long enough to persuade him to apply the MB principles.

And long enough to have his BW get some support and advice from the forum too.

Not magic, waywards have seen the error of their ways by this website and the forum. There are Former waywards who post here. What if every wayward that came here, turned their life around?

That's the goal to set.

That is a good goal...and one that it is ultimately up to the WAYWARDS to reach.

True, but we do have impact. Every post does make a difference in real lives.

IMHO that's a HORRIBLE goal to set as it requires something out of control: the actions of those coming here for advice. If even one doesn't turn around, are we failures?

I'm sorry but I can't spend my nights sleepless wondering, was that adjective in the wrong place? Should I have used another word? Was I too mean, too harsh, was I too nice? All I can do is the best I can with what I'm given and as long as I'm operating from the standpoint of Building Marriages, that's the best I can do.

We CANNOT control the actions of others. We can influence and persuade. Everyone has their own method of doing that. I think everyone here has the same goal: the building of marriages. But all we have is words.

The fact of the matter is we know almost nothing about the people that post here. For some honey may work, for some vinegar. If we all posted the exact same way, dripping in honey - how would we reach those who need vinegar? We need all sorts because there are all sorts reading. That's just the nature of the medium.

There may be some here with their axes to grind, but they are few and far between. The people you accuse of being 'too harsh' have the same goal as you: building marriages. Because their method of achieving that goal is different than yours, it's wrong?

I know many who don't like MelodyLane's (just as an example) approach, especially when first getting here, but you know what - she gets through to people.

I don't think you're going to convince people to post your way, and it's kind of arrogant to think your way is the only/ best way. You post your way, and let others post their way and somewhere in there the right words will be said.

However, I refuse to take responsibility for the marriages and lives of those who come here. You may argue around it, but that's what I'm hearing with your rant.

Excellent post Rissa!!

I have never said the advice that comes in the form of 2x4's is wrong. I have said that when someone hasn't done what was told to them, in the timeframe (one week) of someone on this board, that they should not be treated disrespecfully (i.e. name calling, or implying belittling statement to them) and that it does not mean they are not trying to work through things.

Don't take responsibility for anyones actions but your own. Said it before, still saying it.

Yes all we have is word. And words are very powerful. Words can be used to build up or tear down quickly.

I have tried not to bring any specific poster into my posts, as this is not directed towards any one person. I have accused nobody. I have pointed out that their seems to be very little patience with waywards when they post here recently.

"My way of posting" "your way of posting" This is not about 2x4's, or honey or vineger, it is about helping people re-build their marriages. Be-littling them is not vineger, not helpful either. When it becomes personal attacks, you are no longer trying to help anyone.

I have not criticised anyone for a wrong adjective nor wrong choice of words. I have brought out the point that MB principles do not include tearing people down with be-littling statements. My "arrogance" comes from the same MB principles you espouse.

I do not want to be mis-understood, so I will clairify I have never intended to vilify anyone on this thread or imply their replys to me are attacks. I realize there is a lot of passion for this forum, and this is just the expression of it. I take none of this personally. I hope none of you do either.

I only want you to take responsibility for your actions and words. Nothing more. With no goal you will never get where you want to get to.

What YOU want and what YOU get can be two different things when it comes to trying to reign in a whole community of posters to your way of doing things and probably as futile as trying to control where raindrops fall.

If you see personal attacks - you are free to report them.

True, but maybe the next wayward that approaches the forum, will fair better than the last few.

Depends on said wayward's own choices.

I agree, hence my statement, that I don't see this as attacks on me.

I have seen JustUss take over posts and close them when it did become too personal.

I detect a little "last word" syndrome here.

Not sure what you mean by this? Im not going anywhere that I know of.

I really don't hold any animosity towards any of you. I started reading Joey's post, and before I could get back in to post ( as I said it can be a week between my posts) it was decided he was a boy and would probably never do the right thing.

I plan on being here for a long time. I learn a lot every day that I can spend the time online. I have tried to reply to each post. If I missed a few I apologise. go ahead and keep posting. I will be off-line until tomorrow pretty soon, but you are always welcome to reply.

Oh nevermind... just making a funny.

Oo Oo...I want the last word...PM and Pep are magical too, sorry I forgot you guys...I am sure there more I forgot.

Oooo and I have a rant...I hate when I get suckered into a thread that goes around and around and around ..But I have no one to blame but myself, so there.

PM

haha I have last word!!! Waited for all the rants to die out on this! I am king of the hill.

Of the few waywards that make here that post, the ones who are TRULY seeking help and want to change, those are the ones who muddle through and end up staying and DO change. The ones who don't are one who aren't ready.....and no amount of 2x4's is going to change that.....

If you think board members are hard on waywards today, well
you should have seen it when I first got here.....those waywards had to deal with MEDC......

Lets get back to marriage building and leave the critiques of other posters to the moderators. If you have an issue with another poster, please notify the moderator rather than attempt to straighten them out yourself. That is our job, not yours!

Word.

We got in trouble...Sorry Fireproof.

Ahem...My ears have been burning slap dab OFF today - Now I know why...I'll say only this, as I see Fireproof has spoken...

Staying here was MY CHOICE, and mine alone...I wanted help, and I got it, even though some of the help I initially received I didn't recognize as help until later...I will forever be grateful for the help and advice of those who offered it to me - and I am grateful that *I chose* to listen and stay...

Anyway, now for a rant of my own...It breaks my heart to see MB applied in the wrong way...

1stepforward, you said:


My dear man, you negotiated with a TERRORIST, and sadly and predictably, you lost...POJA is a tool for RECOVERY! You never, ever, ever, ever, EVER use POJA with an active wayward - if you do, only one of you will play by the rules, and it sho nuff ain't gonna be the wayward - doing so puts you at an even greater disadvantage...I am very sorry for your situation, I hope you will learn the MB program IN IT'S ENTIRETY so that you are able to use it as intended from here on out...

Mrs. W

To support what MrsW said, read Dr Harley's comment about this:

Actually, I should rephrase exactly what I said about POJA - Saying it is a tool for recovery implies that it is only used in marriages recovering from infidelity, and that is not the case - It is a tool to be used in FUNCTIONING MARRIAGES with both spouses willingly and genuinely using it for the betterment of the marriage by practicing care, protection and honesty - So, what I meant to say is that you do not use it in infidelity situations until recovery is under way...

Thanks to Mel for posting Dr. Harley's quote! Much obliged!

Mrs. W

If anyone had treated me like the way WSs are treated now I would not be here and recovered. When the "new breed" had taken over when I reconnected with the OM all the 2x4s just sounded like a whole lot of blah blah. You spend all your time being defensive rather than listening because there's nothing to listen to. NONE of it is helpful, it just sounds like a lot of noise. So much time and care is taken with BSs but as soon as it's a WS, it becomes one insult after another. Then everyone says - ooooh, they couldn't take the truth - now they've gone when the reality is that nothing constructive is ever mooted. I would bet the farm that Dr H doesn't treat waywards like that.

I was EXCEPTIONALLY lucky to have JL on my case. EXCEPTIONALLY lucky.

...and that's my rant about...

Kiwi - you were treated that way. Very direct. And it was an MB friend who reached out and saved your marriage when you wouldn't.

You were humble enough to learn and grow and you had the courage to stick around.

But you were dusted up every bit as much as the waywards who cut and run at the first sign of direct honesty around here.

I guess time dulls pain for everyone and eases memories a bit.

The stinging stops when you recognize the love and caring behind the confrontations. And you did. It wasn't just JL who reached you.

I know you're ranting,,,,

But when I showed up on the forums some of the posts to me were attacks. It didn't cause me to cut and run. Some posts disappeared entirely from my thread because they were considered to harsh by the moderators. I still didn't cut and run....

Know why?

Because even the harsh personal attacks were true!

I needed the good, the bad and the ugly.....

I believe the different POV's can be helpful for all waywards that actually want to recover their marriage.

When I first posted in 2006, I was afraid to do the right thing. But I was told to do the right thing. Unfortunately my choice at that time was to lie like a dog. Three years later, I came back, and after a couple of weeks a copped to being here before because I felt bad about what I had done way back then. People were really nice. But one poster took quotes out from some of my 2006 crap and asked me how I was able to lie so so convincingly. She wanted to KNOW whether I was trustworthy again.

I had a choice. I could have pulled myself up into some indignant mess, or I could have respected the fact that she wasn't about to have MB people waste their time on someone who was going to just lie all over again. I stuck around and answered her questions. And she was right to question. When someone lies, they need to expect to have to prove themselves.

When families are hanging in the balance and someone is perpetrating the ultimate betrayal onto their spouses and children.....there isn't time for hearts and flowers. Now it isn't necessary for people to be out and out ugly, but I have almost never seen that - only when a WS won't stop blaming the victim or takes everyone for a ride. But blunt, urgent honesty is necessary. If my child runs into the street with a semi coming down the road, I am not going to say please, I am going to scream her name and get her out of that road if I have to drag her by her hair.

My rant is about unrecovered fogged out waywards who come here and cry victim when the truth is levelled on this forum. BUT, they only whine about the 2x4s levelled at WAYWARDS. STRANGELY, they say nothing about the 2x4s aimed at betrayed spouses, who receive many more 2x4s than anyone else.

Show me a wayward who whines about 2x4's and I will show you an UNRECOVERED WAYWARD. Being angry about 2x4s is a sign the person is not recovered. And for them, I have only this to say:

When you are sick enough, you don't care about the doctor's bedside manner. You just want to be healthy again. If you are sick enough of being wayward, you won't care how the truth is delivered, you just want to do what's right. People who get that they are wrong are rarely defensive.

See, when I was NEW here, betrayed spouses were routinely attacked by waywards when they said anything negative about adultery. Fogged out waywards had the run of the board and were never challenged, only BS's were challenged and chastised. As a newcomer, I was called out - BY NAME - in a call out thread by a WAYWARD WIFE and chastised for daring to compliment one of the FEW WS's who was actually recovered. [I was accused of making a "disrespectful judgement" to OTHER WS's by complimenting one of them] All the WS's here were hateful, hostile, entitled and full of excuses why they had affairs. It made me want to vomit. I used to leave this board enraged at the flagrant moral relativism.

WW's from gloryb used to come over here and troll the board by attacking the BS's. The BS were chastised all the time when they said anything negative about adultery or defended themselves from the gloryb sewer rats. They were shut down by telling them not to make "disrespectful judgments."

This was posted to me TWO WEEKS after I made my 1st post: call out thread to Melodylane

In my first post, I was told by a wayward wife that I should put all my energy into "rebuilding trust" instead of snooping. here

My, oh my, how things have changed. You bet your sweet [censored] things have changed.

AGREE. People who really want help cannot be driven off by WILD HORSES. I was as wayward as they come when I arrived in Alcoholics Anonymous 25 years ago. They told me to "take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth" because they didn't want to hear my crap. I was told "young lady, bull**** has a very short shelf life around here."

I realized VERY QUICKLY that if I wanted help I was going to have to get honest OR LEAVE because you can't bull**** a bull****er. I could not bs those people. It is the folks who don't want to get honest who run. Those who are sincere stay here and get honest.

THANK GOD THOSE PEOPLE CARED ENOUGH ABOUT ME TO TELL ME THAT!! If they had just told me what I wanted to hear, I wouldn't have made it. I remember those caring folks fondly. I don't give a crap about the cowards who just told me what I wanted to hear. They were not my friends. I didn't need slobbering, inappropriate sympathy, I needed a boot in my [censored].

Hey luri ......



nice to know that I'm in good company! haha!

need a rant don't I ...... I have cooked Kraft dinner and cleaned toilets all day so far with no thanks from my testosterone filled room-mates

Rant 'o' day
(from phone .... Excuse errors)

If whomever wants a certain flavor of messages sent to any WS or BS, please, lead by example. YOU be the light. YOU be the one. YOU blow the rest of us away with YOUR wisdom, generosity, and unrefutable advice to others.

If YOU know what we should do, but YOU will not do it yourownself, the poor defensless wayward ( as described by Mel ) is missing out on YOUR input, and aren't YOU then as "guilty" as the rest of us who are mean & harsh.

Have you ever seen how happy we are when the wayward gets "it" ?

Pepperband! Where yoo ben? On a second hunnymoon with your DH or somethin'?

Kiwi, just wanted to point out that you DIDN'T "recover." You hooked up with your OM a couple of years ago [after you had been here for years] and refused to tell your husband. *I* called your husband in New Zealand and told him myself. I wouldn't be holding myself up as a shining example of someone who "recovered" due to some mythical softer, gentler "old days" if I were you. Because you did not recover.

Even so, you are personally responsible for your own recovery and can't blame others if you refuse to follow this freely offered program. I still don't see any indication that anything has ever changed. You STILL identify with waywards by defending them, and don't seem to have the slightest understanding of this program.

Funny how those who do nothing to help are always so quick to criticize those that do help.

Where are you with your expertise as to how to deal with WS's? Why aren't you out there doing the heavy lifting, like so many others that spend HOURS a day holding hands & guiding? It's much easier to pop in once a month or two & judge.

Got news for you....as a BS I was discouraged from posting when I joined back in "those good ol' days." When I joined in 1998 I had already discovered my H's LTA, we had decided to recover but I was ANGRY. I was told by the "then vets" I had to "get over it", work on myself, & I must enjoy feeling angry or I'd do something about it. No helpful advice, no suggestions as to how I could accomplish this, no links to Dr Harley's articles. Just posts mocking me, telling me they could hear violins playing in the background & see tumbleweeds floating across the prairie while they read my posts. Unfortunately my original user name & these posts were lost in the MB crash of 1999. I didn't leave. I started reading,,and reading more.

Read back on your old posts. Yes, you were lucky,,,lucky to have SOOO MANY members, willing to carry the load, take you by the hand & deliver that dose of reality when needed. MANY members trying to help you, not just one.

Simply brilliant, luri!!

Sompin like dat.

Fixing up 2 houses at the same time.
Misplacing stuff. (My awesome computer glasses ??? Are where ???)
I can't see well without them while on the puter.
Losing my mind.
Forgot architect plans X2 when meeting with contractor.

My computer is packed away.
Using my H's laptop & my iPhone.

Tomorrow is our 29th anniversary.
Packing for a 2 day R & R.
But first, today I had to go to Macy's to buy panties, coz I can't remember where mine are packed.

We are happy.
We are busy.
We are crazy.


God bless you one and all.

Sounds like your havin a blast

Not to be pedantic but it was not a "couple of years ago" it was 2006, four years ago. I wouldn't call it "hooked up" and neither would my husband but you know best of course.




Well I would. You can say what you like. We have completely recovered. What happened in 2003, 2004 and 2006 is in the past for us.


I have followed the programme, my husband has followed the programme. ****edit**** I love my husband touching me at any time, day or night - he can grab whatever he likes - I LOVE that he finds me desirable, and I don't hide anything from him.

I have NEVER defended a wayward. Not once. I just see what works and what doesn't.

Jen, nothing that you said about my marriage is true, so I don't feel the need to defend it. But I do know that a self proclaimed "recovered" person does not hook up with her OM again as you did. A "recovered" person doesn't refuse to tell her husband about the contact, forcing people like myself to call your H and tell him. Hopefully you haven't rewritten history and are now denying it.

Arguing over whether it was 4 years or 2 years is just a distraction and does nothing to change my point. The point is that you had a resumption in your affair after your proclaimed "recovery."

A recovered person does not identify with and defend WAYWARDS.

You do all that.

Nor have I EVER seen any evidence that you have the slightest idea about the Marriage Builders program. You sure don't post about it. I doubt you know the difference between a POJA and baloney sandwich. The only posts I see from you are drive by posts in defense of waywards [characterizing them as "victims"] every few months and a few posts on chat threads.

You said that you wouldn't have recovered without JL's help when you arrived, yet you resumed your affair some years afterwards. So, your idea of "recovery" is very questionable in my view.

Well yes you did defend waywards. On this very thread. You not only defend them, you identify with them. You always do. You have never evolved beyond that FOGGED out wayward state.

Nor do you have any idea what "works." You are not recovered yourself so you wouldn't know. And you don't help others around here so you wouldn't have the slightest idea what "works."

******************edit******************

EDIT

We are locking this thread now.