I will break down the details for you as best I can. I am lost, confused, hurt, angry - you name it, I got it. And I know if you're on this board, I can only imagine you have been here, too.

I've read HNHN, numerous other articles on this site, and have just started trying to get through as many message board posts as I can to learn and understand.

I am the cheater. I am the wife. We have two children. We have been married for 15 years. The OM is a divorcee. We met via a contract work position last year and essentially were introduced via my hairstylist who is also his DD. The introduction started off as friendly conversation and led to an EA that lasted 7 months or so. PA happened and only lasted two months.

D-Day was 12/09/11. Husband called me at work and demanded my email password. He had suspicions because I had previously told him I was feeling very lost and empty. He knew of the OM but did not at the time know it had turned to a PA. He found an email that exposed the EA.

The PA had ended two weeks prior to D-Day because I wanted to put an end to the pain of it all.

I never intended to do this to my DH. I honestly never even thought I was capable of doing this. I know that probably sounds wrong since I did do it, but I am a very down to earth person with very strong morale beliefs and convictions. This event has rocked me to the core and I pretty much hate my self what I have done and what I have caused.

DH went on a rage on D-day which led me to a panic attack and ended up in the ER. He smashed his company vehicle windshield with his fist. He broke his cell phone. He punched walls at the hospital. He took my cell phone and texted almost everyone in my contact list including co-workers, friends, family. He logged in to my Facebook account and put extremely nasty status updates on there which ultimately led to the cops showing up at our house because he said he threatened my life and a concerned friend called 911.

That evening, I left the home with our 2 children for safety reasons. He was uncontrollable. He went on a drunk rage and damaged things in our home. He took everything out of our closet that was mine and threw it across the bedroom. Jewelry, makeup, etc. You name it. If it was mine, it was on the floor. Even my wedding dress. He admitted to wanting to cut that up but he didn't.

All I could keep saying was that I was sorry for what I did. But he kept raging. And the verbal abuse continued. And here we are 6 months later and it has settled a little, but every day he has questioned me to the point I am numb.

The marriage counseling only lasted 4 sessions. It was with a LMFT and we felt we were not making any progress so we quit. That was probably our first mistake. We should have looked for a better counselor.

5 months after D-day I read HNHN and found this website.

Last week, I had slip up. I re-contacted the OM via email because I had seen him on the freeway the night before. It was an email that simply stated "hope the traffic is better tonight than it was last night" - his response was "hope so, motorcycles like to go fast". And after that, I had no more contact because I felt absolutely ashamed of my breech of No Contact.

I did not mention to to DH because I did not want to bring back his anger and I knew in my heart I would not contact again based on how horrible I felt for doing so.

DH ended up getting a "gut" feeling and went and sat outside the OM's house. He was confronted by OM's male roommate who asked him to get off the property. DH contacted OM via cell phone & email. I do not know all the details of that contact.

DH posed as that OM and sent me an email. I responded knowing the email address was different than OM's and figured it was DH. This sparked DH to ask for my work email password. I could not provide that due to company policy but we started going through them together. And then I got nervous because I knew I had sent that one email a week prior and not told DH about it. I told DH about it and he was upset all over again. Rightfully so.

But his anger has caused AO's, DJ's and extremely hurtful words to be said on his part (and in front of our youngest son) and for 3 days now, I have been the one to just sit here and take it. Until he told me to get out. At which point, I took our youngest with me (oldest was at a camp for the weekend). I went to a safe place because I was scared. I have been out of the home for the past 2 nights.

He's demanding I come back home. He claims he loves me. But, he has posted Craigslist ads seeking "companionship". He has answered ads and even had a date set up for this past weekend. He goes to strip clubs. He wanted to have a 3-some or more and took me to a "big O" event. Then blamed it all on me. He has told me several times that he is done and wants a divorce. He tells me he can't live with such a cold person. He has told me I should be begging for his forgiveness and I should want to make it up to him for the rest of my life.

He wants me to show him love, affection, sex, etc. and yet, I am so hurt not only by what I did, but also by what he has done that I am just not even open to all of that. I want to heal from all of this, but it's like he keeps picking the scabs off just as they are starting to form.

I am in a position today where I feel like I cannot get past the verbal abuse or the emptiness I have inside me. And he is demanding answers and promises again or he "will proceed with a divorce".

How do you know if after all of the hurt and pain caused to both that you can rebuild? In 6 months I have not even felt it was possible. And today I'm not even sure if I want to continue to try. The pain is that deep.

I should also mention that I did switch jobs immediately after D-day.

I also have had weight loss surgery and not sure if any of you have dealt with that before, but there is a whole other set of emotions and chemical reasons for some of what I have been dealing with.

UPDATE: DH just sent me an email telling me that all he's ever wanted from me was closeness and that he's tired of the lies and deceit and that we need to be done and end this.
How do you know what is the right thing to do at this point?

You need to put down the shovel crzy8. Your BH's reactions are not acceptable but they are understandable. BH is not picking scabs...the wounds are still open and bleeding. You are rubbing salt into them too.

Welcome to MB.

You are still cheating. And lying about it.

Your husband is doing these things to hurt you, because he does not know how to manage his hurt and anger. He wants to inflict the same damage on you.

This thread is entirely about your pain and not the pain you have caused your family. Contact was a week ago, a pointless contact that was friendly banter and could easily be seen as an attempt to re-enter OM's life.

Are you actually serious about this? If so we can help but your words say otherwise.

I am absolutely astonished at the abject cruelty in your post. You drive your husband almost crazy with your affair and what do you do? You contact the OM again! are you serious? You are the rapist who complains that your rape victim is screaming too loud while you rape him over and over and over again. And you have the NERVE to come here and tell us you are the victim?

Ma'am. If you want your victim to stop lashing out, THEN STOP RAPING HIM. He is responsible for his outbursts but you are responsible for your cruel, abusive behavior. The fact that you told us about your affair and then commenced to cite a long list of his bad behavior is a reflection of someone who is not remorseful.

You have to FIRST stop the affair. STOP deceiving him. Open up your life in a way that is is impossible to contact that filthy PIG again.

I would go to your husband with hat in hand with a sincere no contact letter and an appointment with a polygraph tester and ask him to give you another chance. You sure as hell do t deserve it, but it is worth a try.

Has,your affair been exposed to your families and your children?

Also, I don't believe your recent contact with the OM was the only contact. That is bullsh**. That just happens to be the one contact your husband caught you at. I suspect what has driven your husband so crazy is that he suspects you are still in contact.

Frankly, if you were my spouse, I would kick you to the curb. No one is worth this much aggravation. After he took you back and gave you another chance, what do you do? You continue your affair! Unbelievable!

How sad that you would do that to your husband and your children.

Put down the shovel?
Okay. I guess when hurting, people do things they would not rather admit to. But I came here to clean up. Thank you for the welcome.

The saying goes, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.

MelodyLane - your words are harsh but I am trying to swallow them the best I can. I know via messageboarding, that is isn't always easy to explain everything that has transpired. But I shared what I could get out and I wanted to try to portray both sides. I guess I did not do a very good job and I will sit and re-read the thread so I can come to an understanding and accept responsibility for my own actions let alone what my BS is doing and saying. I guess because I have always had a bad self image and bad self esteem for being morbidly obese most of my life, I will just sit here and take his verbal abuse so I can sink into an even deeper depression. I have tried to be loving with him but when he sticks his male member in my face and says "suck his [censored]" - is that loving? You have no idea! But, yes, I am absolutely sorry for what I did and like a drug, I had a slip up and chose to be done and come clean. Part of me coming and posting to the MB site is my way of getting clean.

Yes, our 8 & 10 year old are aware because BS made comments in front of them. The 10 yr. old is in counseling because he's been on the receiving end of his Dad's anger.

Yes, both families are aware. All friends are aware. All co-workers are aware. I have no friends left. I have been overloaded at work because of this. Trust me, I am carrying my load and then some. And I'm still supposed to have a great loving attitude? Wow.

And I have told my BS to leave me because I do not deserve him. I hate putting him through this. But he also has offered no hope of rebuilding by his actions and words either. Because one day he can say it and the next five are a whole other story.

I will remain here and I will try my hardest because I do care. TYVM.

crzy8s, what did you come here for exactly?

Do you want to learn how to recover your marriage? If so, we can help you, but it isn't going to be easy. We are gonna call you on the bullsh, and we aren't going to be easy on you. Are you willing to do the work? It's your choice, but I would like to know upfront, so I don't waste time on someone who isn't serious. What will that choice be?

Yes, please. I will do my best.

This post is all about you and how bad you feel. You are the cheater; your husband is the one who has been kicked in the face by you. Imagining �you have been here, too.� shows that you are comparing your pain to the pain of the betrayed, a group that includes your husband. You have also created damage for your children. There is NO comparison. Your pain does not equate to his pain, and you are the one who caused all of it.

You need to wake up and realize how much you are focusing on yourself. THen you can start to fix things. We'll try to help you open your eyes. It won't be fun.


1. �The introduction started off as friendly conversation and led to an EA that lasted 7 months or so. PA happened and only lasted two months.�

Things �led to an EA� and the �PA happened�. This passive voice attempts to deflect the responsibility you have for the choices you have made.

2. �The PA had ended two weeks prior to D-Day because I wanted to put an end to the pain of it all.�

You could mean that you wanted to stop hurting your husband, but it sounds like you mean you wanted to stop your own anguish. Besides, you couldn�t stop hurting your husband by keeping all of this secret from him. He has a right to know how his life is running, and that includes a right to know what his wife is doing so that he can then decide for himself if he wants to save this marriage with you, or get rid of you.

3. �I never intended to do this to my DH. I honestly never even thought I was capable of doing this. I know that probably sounds wrong since I did do it, but I am a very down to earth person with very strong morale beliefs and convictions. This event has rocked me to the core and I pretty much hate my self what I have done and what I have caused.�

This is self-defensive. It is an attempt to deflect from the horror by saying how down to earth, moral, and convicted you are. Fact is, you are none of these things. You have proved that, so you can�t claim these characteristics at this time. You thought you were those things, and you wanted to be those things, but when the challenge came you failed. You can become those things if you do the work. It is possible for you to grow into the person you�d like to become, but you have to let go of your self focus, open your heart, and listen to the experts here They will smack you around; it is for your own good and it is especially for the good of your husband and children.

4. �DH went on a rage on D-day which led me to a panic attack and ended up in the ER. He smashed his company vehicle windshield with his fist. He broke his cell phone. He punched walls at the hospital. He took my cell phone and texted almost everyone in my contact list including co-workers, friends, family. He logged in to my Facebook account and put extremely nasty status updates on there which ultimately led to the cops showing up at our house because he said he threatened my life and a concerned friend called 911.�

All about you again with your panic attack. Poor you ended up in the ER due to a panic attack and it was all his fault right? WRONG! Rages are scarey I agree, but consider this: HE DID NOT HIT YOU. If he was so angry that he was smashing things, and none of those things was your face, I�d say he is pretty safe. He has passed the test of �Is there anything that could make you hit your wife?� Apparently for him, the answer is �Absolutely Not.�

5. �That evening, I left the home with our 2 children for safety reasons. He was uncontrollable. He went on a drunk rage and damaged things in our home. He took everything out of our closet that was mine and threw it across the bedroom. Jewelry, makeup, etc. You name it. If it was mine, it was on the floor. Even my wedding dress. He admitted to wanting to cut that up but he didn't.�

Same as above about him being a danger to you or the children. He is apparently not a danger to living things; only to inanimate objects. I do agree on getting the children out of the house because rage and throwing things can cause accidental physical injury and definite emotional injury to children, but your post goes to the dramatic side regarding physical safety. It makes it look again like you think your husband has the largest blame for current circumstances despite the fact that you cheated.

6. �All I could keep saying was that I was sorry for what I did. But he kept raging. And the verbal abuse continued. And here we are 6 months later and it has settled a little, but every day he has questioned me to the point I am numb.�

I think you need to back off on this focus on his �verbal abuse� of you and his rage. He has questioned you and questioned you and questioned you because he has that right. With you in your �poor me� defensive mode, he�ll never be satisfied with your answer. You need to grovel and adopt the attitude that you know what you did to him was hideous. You need to know in your heart that you have destroyed his trust, broken his heart, and taken much away from his self esteem. You did this to him and you are the only one who can fix it. You can�t fix it until you stop worrying about yourself.

7. �Last week, I had slip up. I re-contacted the OM via email because I had seen him on the freeway the night before. It was an email that simply stated "hope the traffic is better tonight than it was last night" - his response was "hope so, motorcycles like to go fast". And after that, I had no more contact because I felt absolutely ashamed of my breech of No Contact.�

You made a choice; you did not have a slip up. No amount of professing the shame you feel lets you off the hook. You can�t fix your marriage or begin to help your husband heal until you commit to No Contact with this OM. No Contact is absolute. Your husband and having an intact family for your children must become more important to you than contacting the OM for any reason. At this point in time, your husband and an intact family rank behind sending an email to the OM; the email was the most important thing.

8. �I did not mention to to DH because I did not want to bring back his anger and I knew in my heart I would not contact again based on how horrible I felt for doing so.�

Once again you want to talk about how horrible you feel for your choices rather than focusing on what you can do to help your husband and family heal.

9. �DH ended up getting a "gut" feeling and went and sat outside the OM's house. He was confronted by OM's male roommate who asked him to get off the property. DH contacted OM via cell phone & email. I do not know all the details of that contact.�

He is having to play like a spy because you refuse to put all of your cards on the table. He might still play like a spy even if you do, but in the long run trust can be regained. You will never regain trust as long as you continue to lie, even by omission.

10. �DH posed as that OM and sent me an email. I responded knowing the email address was different than OM's and figured it was DH.�

I don�t understand why you did this. Can you explain?

11. �I told DH about it and he was upset all over again. Rightfully so.�

Good.

12. �But his anger has caused AO's, DJ's and extremely hurtful words to be said on his part (and in front of our youngest son) and for 3 days now, I have been the one to just sit here and take it.�

This statement is so bad and self centered that I hope you get it with me going for nasty sarcasm:
�Well then. You should just kick his sorry butt out of the house and divorce him. How dare he use hurtful words against you when all you did was cheat, lie, cheat, lie. Your husband must be some kind of monster. And good on you for being such a martyr that you can tell us how you sat there and took it. I�d say you have paid your dues so it�s all OK now. I suppose if his words were that you are a cheater, a liar, an excuse maker, a truth deflector, and one who has no clue how to step up to the plate - - we�ll, he might have been right about you, but he shouldn�t say it out loud and be so offensive. Really! I never heard of such an awful man in all my born days!�

13. �I went to a safe place because I was scared. I have been out of the home for the past 2 nights.�

Deflecting Drama Queen Style eh? You know that you have done the worst thing you could do to him, and he didn�t hit you. Pretending to yourself that you are scared of physical violence, and trying to get us to pretend along with you, does nothing to help this situation.

14. �He's demanding I come back home. He claims he loves me. But, he has posted Craigslist ads seeking "companionship". He has answered ads and even had a date set up for this past weekend. He goes to strip clubs. He wanted to have a 3-some or more and took me to a "big O" event. Then blamed it all on me. He has told me several times that he is done and wants a divorce. He tells me he can't live with such a cold person.�

This is where the pros on this board can help you. He has done wrong, but his wrongs don�t make your wrongs right.

15. �He has told me I should be begging for his forgiveness and I should want to make it up to him for the rest of my life.�

He says these things because you are not doing what must be done to right the horrible wrong you have done. Also, you post sounds like you disagree with him that you have a lot of work to do to gain forgiveness.

16. �He wants me to show him love, affection, sex, etc. and yet, I am so hurt not only by what I did, but also by what he has done that I am just not even open to all of that. I want to heal from all of this, but it's like he keeps picking the scabs off just as they are starting to form.�

He is telling you how to start to fix this, if it can be fixed. You follow that up with a �but� and point the finger at him. You came here to ask for help, so start helping yourself by stopping with your reports of how bad he is doing in this marriage. The people here can�t help him if he isn�t here asking for help; they can only help you.

I do get how difficult it might be to show affection and have sex. I vote you �Fake it to make it.� It will be hard at first, but if you get honest with yourself and him, and if you seriously commit to the marriage vows you took, the affection and enjoyment of sex will become genuine.

17. �I am in a position today where I feel like I cannot get past the verbal abuse or the emptiness I have inside me. And he is demanding answers and promises again or he "will proceed with a divorce". How do you know if after all of the hurt and pain caused to both that you can rebuild? In 6 months I have not even felt it was possible. And today I'm not even sure if I want to continue to try. The pain is that deep.�

You came here to cry for sympathy. You will not get that here, and really you shouldn�t get it anywhere. That kind of sympathy is a teaching path towards entitled bratt-dom. Buck up and stop your tears. You caused a mess and you need to clean up that mess, period. Even if you end up divorced, you can become a better person by doing the work you will be required to do by the marriage builders plan and by all the experts that post here on the forum.

I wish you well.

You can't just do your BEST. You need to do EVERYTHING that is asked of you. And no running away, calling us all meanies, and horribly bitter BSs. There is A LOT of help within this site, and you would do well to acknowledge everyone who posts to you.

First, you are going to have to read through this site, and learn how to recover from your affair. And the first step in that is going to be No Contact for LIFE with OM. You will do this by writing a NC Letter, based on the one in SAA, which your BH approves of, and then mails. Then, you are going to change your email addresses, phone numbers, and any other way OM can contact you. You will give your BH all of your passwords, etc, and will allow him to do whatever needed to keep an eye on you.

Read through the site, and post any questions you may have. Also, be sure to answer the questions of the posters who take the time to post to you. Pay particular attention to the posts that anger you, they are most likely the ones that will help you most.

I will, thank you.

I will be going through your response more thoroughly and responding more adequately when time allows (I'm at work right now). Thank you.

I'm not one of the experts and am mostly a lurker. I just could really see your "fog" and want you to have that light bulb come on that makes you wake up and look outside of yourself. You are fortunate to have experts already here; for example, Melody Lane and Scotland. Keep improving and they'll stick with you. Keep a head in the sand and they'll eventually give up on you because they'll have better things to do with their time.

Absolutely. I understand. Thank you.

There�s a lot of tough medicine here, crazy, but you seriously need to listen and take the criticism to heart. We champion FWW�es on this board and applaud recovery when it happens.

I understand your H�s pain. I�ve been there. You say and do things when you�re in that kind of pain which you normally would never do at all. You do this out of anger. You do it because you feel lost and out of control.

Yes, some of his behavior is not ok, but you need to focus on YOU right now and fixing the things that are wrong.

This starts with writing a no contact letter, approved by and mailed by your H. There needs to be a full confession with all the details of the affair. You have to be willing to give up all passwords, accounts, and phones.

I recommend he come here and open his own thread so he can get support from others who have been in his shoes.

t/j GUH, Don't cut yourself short. Your post was excellent. It showed a great understanding of Wayward fog, and you took the time to post. GREAT JOB. end t/j

Well, you haven't been "loving" with your affair and your continued contact and your endless trickle truth games. You have been abusive. Nothing he has done here reaches the level of abuse you have inflicted on him. What he did was wrong, but so is what you have done. So lets please cut the finger pointing, Madam.

Being obese does not entitle you to abuse others. And of course you have low esteem, you have been lying and cheating. Not much to esteem with that!


He has also been on the recieving end of the conflict and abuse you brought into his family. You have greatly threatened that child's security so stop blaming others for your handiwork.


How about you stop abusing him?

]
You offer no hope of rebuilding with your continued contact with your stinky OM. Lying and adultery both make a marriage very hopeless. You did that, Madam.

If you are serious, then you should stop blameshifting and start taking some accountability for your crimes against your family. If you will do that, we can work with your husband. But you have to first stop the abuse.

I second that

NC is in progress. I am drafting the letter for DH to review today.

I reached out to my DH last evening by just standing closer to him during a kids extracurricular activity we were at. That was a step in the right direction. I understand it wasn't the kissing and hand holding he is craving right now, but it was a pretty giant leap on my part and more than I have done in the past 6 months. I sobbed earlier in the evening and told him what a horrible person I have been and just to allow me the moment to cry it out and get my hurt and disappointment of what I have done out. I needed to release some of that in tears or it would have come out in words which I choose not to do to him.

I have put my shovel down. I have cried out for help by coming here. This is tough, but I am willing to continue on the path to restoring what is right.

ML - I did not mean to incite that I blame having previously been MO on this or that it gives me the right to abuse anyone. Quite the contrary. Due to that piece of my life, I choose to take everyone else's negativity on as my own. I have always ingested it and kept it inside. I won't even try to explain my thought process surrounding that because you told me I was an abuser and I need to process that information. I did not view myself that way and so I am learning to listen to you and the others on this board and accept responsibility for what you see because I understand those of you who's responses make me feel extreme sadness or bring me to tears are the one's I should be listening to the most.

What is the next step?

A no contact letter is a good start. It should be approved by him and sent together. I will post a template below.

Additionally, all of the truth has to be put out on the table once and for all. No more cat and mouse trickle truth games where you screw with his head. If he just caught you in ONE LIE about one contact, I know there are more. And so does he. If you don't get it all out there now, it will drive him crazy because he will sense it and dog you to the gates of hell. He HAS sensed it all along.

I IMPLORE you to dump it once and for all and get it out there. Get it out there so you can move on. Otherwise, you two will be playing prosecuting attorney and hostile defense witness for the next 50 years. And every little drib he drags out of you will put you both back to day 1 of recovery. So do yourself a favor and do a big doc dump. Go through just ONE MORE explosion so you can put this to rest.

Don't tell him in person. Write it all out on a piece of paper and tell him you are done with this affair and are done with trickle truth. You want to get it all out on the table and are deeply sorry for what you have done.

The next thing you should give him is your fail proof plan of transparency. Somehow, you have to set up your life so you can't see or speak to the OM again. One suggestion would be to MOVE out of that area since you say you saw the OM and were triggered. Start thinking on ways you can affair proof your life so your husband is protected from you.

Coming clean and taking some accountability for your crimes will help your self esteem. Behaving with honor and dignity and integrity is how you build self esteem. This is the first step.

I would also ask your husband to join this board so we can help him get through this. It is obvious he has some serious anger issues and if he doesn't get those under control, you would be wise to leave him. We can help him overcome that and we can help you both create a safe, romantic marriage.

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

I just read the Recovery Guide for WWs by Dorry on this site. Are there more like this on here by chance? Some of the links I clicked on in that thread did not work.

Read the two replies from Melody on your thread and that will be better than any other thread.

Thank you ML.

I think one of my hang ups is that from day one of meeting my DH, I knew that he fell madly in love with me. And I didn't have those same feelings. I have always felt very inadequate for him. I met him just as I was ending my first serious relationship (I was 21 at the time) and within 2 months, he proposed. My father was dying of cancer at the time and I was exceptionally numb. I asked him if we could just be friends for a while so we could get to know eachother. He was not okay with that. It was marriage or nothing. My thought process was that he was one of the nicest guys and seemed to have a good family and really, wasn't that what was most important for a good marriage? He seemed to have a good head on his shoulders, I knew he could manage money well, he had a FT steady job, etc. and ultimately I said yes to the proposal. We were married 6 months later during which time my focus was really on my Dad who was on his last breath in the hospital during my wedding and died while we were on our honeymoon 3 days later. I came home from our honeymoon to attend his funeral. It was a time that should have been pure joy in my life and instead, the entire time was pure grief and sadness.

And for the past 3 - 4 years, I found myself focusing solely on our children because I was feeling very unfulfilled in our marriage. I dreaded spending one on one time with him. But yet, I plodded through never telling him how I was feeling or that my EN's weren't being met. I didn't recognize what was happening until the A. I always did my best to meet DH's EN's and he even stated after all of this that I did a great job, but one thing he has always known about me is that I'm a more reserved/private person with my thoughts and that I don't love him as deeply as he loves me.

I feel like I never fell in love with him. Does that make sense?

Perhaps this is part of the fog I have seen spoken of on here?

But I still wonder about the feeling of love and being in love. I know I'm a confused heap of human right now. I'm sorry. I'm working through it all.

Thank you for your time. Overall, with all of your replies and suggestions and honesty, I am truly feeling hopeful about working through this and my fears are lessening with each post.

We know you are not in love with him. But this program can turn that around. Part of the problem is that you didn't tell him how to meet your needs. This can be changed with this program. BUT, the first step has to be to get rid of that POSOM.

This is part of your fog thinking you never loved him.

Part of the fog is that your OM doesn't come with chores, kids up sick all night, arguments over finances, etc.

Save the Disney tales for the Disney movies, they are sold to little girls who don't know better.

Your marriage can be wonderful but real marriage is hard work and your OM will still clip his toenails into the sink and leave it, fart in the bed, and have grumpy old man moments. You just can't see that right now because you are in fantasy land.

Do you believe the OM loves you?

Good to know. You are right.

And no, I do not believe OM loves me. He professed it at one point but he had a GF the entire time and he told me to go back to my marriage. He is a womanizer and I have come to realize that the more I think about information he shared about other women. The fog is lifting, trust me, and it's shameful the stuff I believed. It feels like I was a complete outsider of my body and brain the more the fog lifts. I can't even describe how that feels right now.

I did write the NC letter and signed it. It is ready for DH to review.

I wrote DH an email apologizing again for my errors and hurt caused to him. I explained I am working with the MB site and it's going to be a long, hard road, but I am choosing him and our family and I am working through it.

He knows of the site because I was reading HNHN and he read some of the newsletters on the site.

I will encourage him to post on his own as well.

I told him that I am willing to change jobs even further than I have already done if it will help him to feel more secure. I told him that I am willing to sell our house and move since we live within 10 mi. of OM. I explained how triggers happen and how I can find ways to deal with the triggers (come to MB and post vs. re-contacting OM, call him, call a family member, etc.).

We'll see what he says.

We can help him if he comes here. He doesn't realize it yet, but he's lucky in some ways to have a WW that is willing to acknowledge the errors and save the marriage.

Here are some more good threads.
Requirements for Recovery From an Affair
Don't know if I should Divorce after my own infidelity
Extraordinary Precautions

I will encourage him to do so. He could definitely use assistance with his feelings.

Thank you for providing those links. I will read them several times.

What are your BH top EN?

You say he has an anger problem? Has he been physically or verbally abusive to you or the kids?

Do you have the book Lovebusters?

I offered to look for a new job. I offered to move. I am trying to make the necessary changes to help DH feel more secure.

My exact words were: "I am working with the MB website and I will be following their advice as you and I agree upon. I will present information to you that they suggest and if you agree it will help you feel more secure in our relationship again, we will implement it. The first step is to write a NC letter which I draft, you review, and you mail if approved."

I went on to explain that some have found new jobs if the current job still presented contact opportunities. I stated that some have moved towns or states. I stated some have sold vehicles. Etc. I stated that I would be willing to do any or all of these if it would help him to feel more secure.

His response was that it's all about me again and what I want and that I am trying to run from the problem. He said maybe this website advice is wrong.

I don't think you're wrong. I want to stay the course with you all. But by doing so, does that violate the POJA? (not that we've established POJA yet)

I want to move to step 2. I don't want to be in a reactive mode. Please help me understand what I said wrong to him that would make him feel this is all about me and what I want and that I'm trying to run away from the problem. I truly don't understand.

We need to do the EN questionnaire. I honestly do not know the answer to that.

He has been verbally abusive during this time. Never physical.

He has had other AO's from time to time as long as I've known him. It impacted his work and social life at times as well. He went to 2 IC sessions and she said "what are you angry about?" "My wife cheated on me". And he felt she couldn't help him with that and that the anger is justified.

I try to be understanding of the anger and hurt and pain. I feel that one has to somehow find other ways to deal with it though. He just has not found that way other than to tell me that he needs love and sex. I guess I just don't feel that is the answer. And the days I have tried that, I felt resentment and bitterness in me. I need to let that go as well and try to be more loving. I understand that. It's just a horrible cycle we are in right now.

He has been VA to the kids, mainly when they push his buttons and he's on his last nerve. We've all been there. Yelled when we would rather not yell. He feels extreme remorse the next day and then cries and apologizes.

At one point, our oldest son was having an anxiety attack because of DH's yelling (the look on his face during AO's are very scary - it is a look in his eye that just makes you want to run and hide, even though it has never been physical. I am just trying to explain how he appears during an AO.) Son was crying uncontrollably and clinging to me saying "please take me out of here, I don't feel safe". And I stayed and kept him in that environment because I felt that both boys need to understand life is tough and you have to work through it, but I still wonder if that did more damage than good that night. He still remembers that he asked me to take him elsewhere and I didn't. This is one of the things we are dealing with in his counseling sessions.

I'm a BH. One thing I really needed from my WW is for her to (1) understand what the requirements for recovery were, and (2) take action.

In other words, it sounds like you have an idea of what needs to be done, but you're asking your BH to make the decisions for you, rather than taking action. Why not take this approach - look for a new job, start the process of moving, and advise your BH accordingly.

"His response was that it's all about me again and what I want and that I am trying to run from the problem. He said maybe this website advice is wrong."

If he has been to a crapwit counselor who didn't understand why he was angry over an affair, then it is understandable why he wouldn't trust us. Wll he come here and and talk to us?

Also, if he wont stop his verbal abuse, this really is hopeless. You have to make it clear to him that abuse is a deal breaker. Don't tolerate that anymore, ok? If he wants to stay married to you, that has to stop.

Thank you for sharing from your perspective as a BH. I really appreciate that feedback.

I am downright nervous to look for a new job. This company took me back after a 7 year hiatus from here and they have always kept the door open to me because they are confident in my skills and personal work ethic. My DH did say he does not want me to look for another job. And I guess in some ways, I feel like this is "home" so to speak in the work world for me. This company has provided me with training, great pay, great benefits, etc. and they offered me assistance after D-day in the form of taking time as needed to deal with family stuff, got me out of the contract position I was in with our client so that I did not have to have contact/see OM, numbers for resources (EAP), etc. In some way, I feel I owe it to them to show them I am still a very good employee despite my actions. I do not have to travel for them and I have a work schedule that best fits my family's needs.

However, I will continue to consider the change.

Selling our home and purchasing a new one would require my DH's agreement. And currently, he is saying that he is not willing to move and that is a selfish gesture on my part.

Did you tell your WW that you needed her to take action on these things, and did she?

I will ask him to come here ML.
The psychologist he saw actually specializes in marriage counseling, affairs, and divorce. I never went to her personally so I do not have a read on her myself, but he quit after only 2 sessions with her. She encouraged him to keep coming. She did state that I went off the deep end "as many weight loss surgery patients do". I hate when people say that because a lot gets blamed on our post op mental state because many gain a self-confidence they never had previously and others that knew them as a insecure person and such have a hard time adjusting to the new self-confident person. Right or wrong, there are many changes that occur when one is MO and becomes socially size acceptable. That is unfortunate in our society. But I digress. Sorry.

So, if he has an AO and is VA, I should go to Plan B?
Do I tell him this will happen if he becomes VA again so there is no surprise?

Whether you hate it or not, having a dramatic change from being MO to socially acceptable does play a dynamic and many have gone down the road of betrayal afterwards.
Many do not, but are you saying that you losing the weight didn't play a part in why you strayed?

My FWW and I had a difficult recovery, and even now our M has some issues. There are number of things I asked her to do (I don't think she ever offered to do anything), and she chose not to do them.

If your A was with a coworker or client, then I see no other option - it's time to find another job. In my case, pur M's recovery was significantly impacted because my FWW chose to continue working (albeit for only six months) and never exposed to her boss why she was leaving (in fact, the OM ended up getting her managerial position, rather than getting fired).

I agree with Melody his Verbal abuse has to stop. If your oldest son is having panic attacks because of his father's anger this is very bad.

Read and listen and have your BH listen and he can hear for himself how awesome Dr. Harley is. Please have your BH come here so we can help.
Anger Mgmt 101

What are your BH's top EN? The Most Important Emotional Needs

Thank you for your honesty. It is helpful.

I never thought that question through until you posed it. In some ways, I suppose the weight loss did attribute to it in some way. I am minus 170 pounds, I was working out and feeling healthy, men noticed, and the OM went a step beyond noticing. He was very complimentary and it boosted my self-esteem even more. That's where I went wrong. I let that get into my head.

DH told me last night that he has a meeting with a lawyer scheduled and if he in the interim found someone better, he'd be out of here. Then asked me if I wanted to read an email exchange between him and some online female in which he had a date set up this past weekend with but claims they never actually met up. He wanted to show me the email to prove it. I did not choose to look at the email. I do not want to read flowery words between the two and feel jealousy. That is his intention I'm sure and I do not want to play that game.

He does not feel my efforts of coming here and wanting to work through this is enough. Last night he brought up the A, the contact made two weeks ago, things I said in the past, etc.

That is the part that I wonder if it ever goes away. Even if you rebuild successfully, does that question or pain ever truly go away.

Hearing him say he has a meeting scheduled with the lawyer made me crawl back into my shell and want to pack up my stuff to be honest.

He said his #1 EN right now is affection. #2 is sexual fulfillment.

Fake it 'til you make it isn't going to cut it for me. I have done that previously and it makes me feel resentment and bitterness.

How can I provide these two EN's right now under the circumstances?

Oh I thought you wanted to save your marriage AFTER your affair? I'm sorry I thought you wanted to earn your ( F)WW?

Maybe he wants to use his "get out of marriage" free card?

I guess put salt on his wounds. Didn't you just contact your OM two weeks ago? That resets his Dday clock to day 1.

Actions are what he needs to see from you. He's hurting.

So you don't want to be with him? Maybe that's why he is on the verge of having a RA?

Now who's brain hurts? Just kidding.
Okay. I'm trying to decipher what you wrote.

I feel I am physically unable to connect with him due to the EA statements he has made to me during the past 6 months. When your BS says "you have the body of a 60 year old and I'm sick of it and I'm going to find someone better", that pretty much leaves you feeling even worse than you did before. And I am trying to take those comments and toss 'em out along with all the other negative comments because he is hurting. It is difficult.

I came here to understand how I lost it and how to gain it back (meaning my M).

So, I will take action and be affectionate tonight and I will let you know how that goes tomorrow.

Have I deciphered correctly?

Your way of dealing with your hurt/pain was (is?) to become a liar/cheat/adulteress.
Your BH's way of dealing with his hurt/pain is acting out instead of crying.
Which of you holds the knowledge of the better way to deal with hurt/pain? Neither of you.
Your comment/observation about your BH's reaction sounds as if you think you have some sort of superior knowledge of how to behave. Can't you see how ridiculous you sound when you criticize BH's pain?
You "try to be understanding" reeks of a lack of empathy.
ALL waywards/infidels/adulterers have little to no empathy towards their betrayed spouses feelings. You are no exception.




Look up EMPATHY in your dictionary.
Write down the definition on a piece of paper and tape it to your bathroom mirror.
When your BH asks you what it's all about, you tell him it is all about YOUR LACK OF EMPATHY, not his. Tell him you have been faithless/heartless/cruel and neglectful of his feelings.
You tell him you are taking 100% responsibility for your lack of empathy, and you want him to tell you when you are showing him a lack of empathy, so you can change for the better.

He is guilty of DJ's and AO and he needs to change that.

But you're here and he isn't and so you need to clean up your side of the street. If you find yourself at a truly FWW and he is still being a bunghole then you may have to go to Plan B.

For now you need to change/fix you. We can only control ourselves.

Have you figured out the ways to tell him you don't like it when he says those things to you?

I bow down to Queen Pep she said it much better than me.

Crzy8s you need to take heed and listen with your listening ears to her.

It's " difficult" because YOU lack empathy.

"BH, I can understand where you are coming from. I have hurt you in the worst way possible. I find you physically attractive and I'd love to make love with you,nwhenever you want.Tell me, is there anything I can do for you today?".

Your lack of empathy is the major stumbling block in your recovery.
The very second you find yourself making judgments about how BH is dealing with his hurt/pain .... Put yourself in a 'time out' in the bathroom, and read aloud the definition of empathy. Then, go to BH and apologize for not showing him you care for him.

YOU must aggressively be the one to show empathy .... Consistently for several months.
Unless you do this, the marriage will never improve.

Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happily married?
Just because you think or feel a certain way does not make you correct.
Right now you are incorrect in many ways.
The most damaging way is lack of empathy which is why I am hammering you about this.
Until you change your bad habit in this regard, you are hurting your marriage/spouse/family' your very life .... I'm as serious as a heart attack.

When my BS says "you have the body of a 60 year old" .... I feel HAPPY .... Because I'm 62.

Love Busters

The love you and your spouse have for each other is directly affected by almost all of your behavior. This is a point that I will repeat in most of my remaining concepts and Q&A columns. Until now, I have focused attention on behavior that will meet each other's most important emotional needs. When you behave that way, you are caring for each other. But the resulting Love Bank deposits will not do your marriage much good if other behavior leads to Love Bank withdrawals. So to help you gain control over your behavior so that you can learn to avoid making Love Bank withdrawals, I will introduce you to my next basic concept, Love Busters.

Why would any of us hurt the one we promised to love and cherish?

Lack of empathy is at the core of the problem. I was struck with what we are all up against while watching a Star Trek episode. Spock had volunteered to be possessed by an alien presence so that it could communicate with Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise.

As soon as it entered Spock's body, its first reaction was, "Oh, how lonely you must all feel."

You see, in the alien world, they were all connected to each other through telepathy so that each one could feel what everyone else felt. They were all emotionally bonded to each other. But as soon as the alien possessed Spock's body, it realized that we humans are all cut off from each other emotionally. And it viewed our state as incredibly isolated and lonely.

One of the most important consequences of our emotional isolation is that we cannot feel the way we affect others. And that creates the temptation to hurt others because in doing so we don't feel the pain we cause. If we were connected emotionally to others as the aliens were, we would be far less tempted to do anything thoughtless, gaining at someone else's expense. That's because in so doing, we would be hurting ourselves as well.

And that's what I always seem to be battling when I try to encourage one spouse to avoid doing anything that would hurt the other spouse. I cannot seem to trigger empathy. Each spouse complains about how thoughtless the other spouse is, without much awareness of his or her own thoughtlessness.

Lack of empathy helps makes thoughtlessness possible. Since we don't feel what other's feel, we tend to minimize the negative effects we have on others, and consider our thoughtlessness to be benign. An angry outburst is regarded by some as a creative expression. Disrespect is viewed as helping the other spouse gain proper perspective. And a demand is nothing more than encouraging a spouse to do what he or she should have done all along. None of these is seen as one spouse gaining at the other's expense, because the spouse who is inflicting the pain does not feel the pain. But whenever one spouse is the cause of the other's unhappiness, one thing's for sure -- Love Bank withdrawals are taking place.

I call all the ways that spouses are inconsiderate of each other's feelings Love Busters because that what they do -- they destroy the love that a husband and wife have for each other.

I've found that the most common Love Busters in marriage fall into six categories: Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, Angry Outbursts, Annoying Habits, Independent Behavior and Dishonesty

The first three of these Love Busters are instinctive, yet thoughtless, ways to try to get what you want from each other. When a request doesn't work, a spouse will often revert to a demand ("I don't care how you feel -- do it or else!"). If that doesn't get the job done, a spouse will try disrespectful judgments ("If you had any sense, and were not so lazy and selfish, you would do it"). And then, when all of that fails, an angry outburst often represents the last ditch effort ("I'll see to it that you regret not having done it").

Of course, demands, disrespect and anger don't really get the job done. You generally don't do things for your spouse because of these Love Busters, you do them out of care and consideration. If your spouse is demanding, disrespectful and angry, you tend to be less caring and considerate, leading you to do less for your spouse. Instead of giving your spouse what he or she needs, demands, disrespect and anger cause you to resist. I want you to have what you need in your marriage, but demands, disrespect and anger will not get it for you. They will prevent you from having what you want if you revert to these destructive instincts.

But when you indulge in these three Love Busters, you do more than fail to get what you need -- you also destroy the love your spouse has for you. All of these instincts, and the habits they help create, cause your spouse to be unhappy, and that causes Love Bank withdrawals.

The fourth Love Buster, Annoying Habits, is behavior that is repeated without much thought that bothers your spouse. Marriage is a partnership of incredibly close quarters, where just about anything you or your spouse does is almost sure to affect the other. If you want to stay in love with each other, your habits, even the innocent ones, should make Love Bank deposits, not withdrawals.

The fifth Love Buster is Independent Behavior, the conduct of one spouse that ignores the feelings and interests of the other spouse. If your decisions are made as if your spouse doesn't even exist, you will find yourself running roughshod over your spouse's feelings and your Love Bank account. Since it's usually scheduled and requires some thought to execute, the simplest way to overcome it is to take it off your schedule. And if you follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, Independent Behavior will never find itself on your schedule in the first place.

Finally, the sixth Love Buster, Dishonesty, causes massive Love Bank withdrawals whenever it's discovered. And spouses usually discover each other's dishonesty because of their emotional closeness to each other. If you or your spouse have a tendency to lie or distort the truth, chase that bad habit out of your marriage before it ruins everything.

If you would like to identify Love Busters that are responsible for Love Bank withdrawals in your relationship, first read a summary of each by clicking their names listed below, and then click this name, the Love Busters Questionnaire , and print two copies of the form, one for you and one for your spouse. After you have completed this form, the priorities you give each Love Buster will show you where to begin in sweeping these rascals out of your lives.


Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty
If you have a few extra minutes, The Parable of the Net will help show you how Love Busters destroy marriage.

The sixth Love Buster, Dishonesty, is so important to overcome in marriage that I have given it a basic concept of it's own. After you have had a chance to read it, I think you will agree with me that it deserve special attention.

Do NOT underestimate your own cruelty.

[video:youtube][/video]

Infidelity: What every couple should know.


What every MB forum poster should watch.

I've seen your flight attendant's picture and you're the cat's meow.

Not anymore.
Thanks for the kiss.

I'm only 37...

Lack of empathy. Ok. I've got work to do. *goes to dictionary*
*tapes to mirror* Read. Repeat. Read. Repeat.

I'm still on board.

Ok let us know how it goes tonight.

Shhhhhush ..... this is a secret. Tell so one.
Men are simple creatures.
Men thrive on admiration and attention.
It's pretty easy to get a man to become adoring.
Flatter him. Multiple times daily. Flatter/compliment/pay attention to the simplest things he does right.
I promise you, his behavior towards you will alter dramatically once he starts to trust your changes.

Earlier in our marriage of 31 years (jeeze) I was sort of a shrew. I would criticize more often than I would praise. Mr Pep made the conclusion that no matter what he did, it was not enough, I was not going to like what he did .... So what happened when a OW paid him compliments? You know damn well what happened. OW made love bank deposits in the areas where I was careless ... And he fell in love with her.

Think of your H as a walking-talking love bank. Challenge yourself to fill that bank to overflowing as soon as possible. Stop making love withdrawals. Your adultery/lies/deceit have left your BH's bank almost bone dry. Make this fun for yourself. Try to discover new ways to please him, to surprise him. So what if he does not reciprocate at first (he won't) .... Eventually the love deposits will turn him into an adoring husband.

After 31 years, I finally have Mr Pep exactly where I want him. He is devoted to me in ways that are almost magical. Why? Because I adore him. I stopped being overly critical of every little annoyance. When I do have an important issue regarding his behavior that I need to discuss, I do it thoughtfully and NEVER in anger.

Every day, Mr Pep brings me fresh coffee. Why? Because I tell him how delicious his coffee is ( no lie ) and I do not take this gesture of his for granted.

If your angry BH does not bring you coffee, LOOK FOR the things he does and make a BIG DEAL out of them. Even if it is going to work. Tell him how much his working hard means to you.

Remember, this begins with you shoving your needs aside for awhile.
Do not forget, men are simple creatures and they WANT to know when they do things to please us.

Make that walking-man- lovebank husband of yours so happy he will do anything to make you happy .... The way my husband treats me.

Remember, I AM over 60 years old, and he STILL finds me attractive because of my ATTITUDE towards him.

Get busy planting the seeds of admiration and be sure to water them daily .... They will grow to bear fruit you just can't imagine in your current mess of a marriage.

Take care.

PS:

I forgot to add this.
Praise your H to everyone.
NEVER make disparaging remarks about your H to others.

"You'll never guess what Joe did. He was reading to one of the kids and it was so endearing. I just love it when Joe is being a great Dad. It makes me so happy and proud."

When you compliment your H to others, he will hear about it. So do this wisely.

"My husband looks so sexy in his new jeans. He knocks my socks off."

You get the idea, right?

For others reading along:
If you are married to an abusive beast, get the hell out. This sort of advice is for the sort of husband who shows promise.

Thank you Mrs. Pep.

Yesterday, I did call BS before I left work and once I got home. I thought this would help him feel comfortable about my whereabouts once I left work (since my encounters with OM occurred during this time period). He did not acknowledge it. Maybe in time it will help him though. I'm going to continue doing that.

Last night, we focused on our 10 y.o. son and let him choose a restaurant to eat dinner at. He desperately needed our attention without his little brother around. During dinner, he ran off a couple of times to check things out in the restaurant. BS and I had conversation. At times, it was quiet and a bit uncomfortable. We made it through. We were not negative to eachother.

Once home we dealt with some kid issues and put them to bed a little early.

I laid there and relaxed, had some tears thinking about the next task at hand, but I did not let him know. I just kept rubbing his back. I continued to break through my own barriers and gave him what he was telling me he needed (his EN#2, sf).

I will take responsibility for my own actions to say that I did have to keep positive self-talk in my own brain going during this time and afterwards, I probably ditched the bed a little too quickly. I was going to cry, though, and I didn't want him to see that. I took about 10 minutes to get myself together, went back, and kissed him goodnight.

I also had a friend of mine (female) read this site. She has asked how she can help me and mostly, it's just been listening. She's been objective and she's the only one that did not ditch me during all of this. She was honest with me this morning and I realized I have also hurt one of the most amazing friends I've ever had in my life. Again, I reminded myself about empathy.

I apologized to her and I am going to implement some things into her friend bank account as well.

After the past 48 hours, though, I do feel I may need to go back on an AD. I fought so hard to get off them, but I am seeing some mood swings exhibiting from all of the trauma and I need to take action against those.

How am I doing? Did I fail in any part last night?

As an enhancement to Pep's recent post, I would add:










No, I guess she about covered it all. (I'd urge you to keep the "simple creatures" concept well hidden however.)

I feel I have been working on the compliments to others already. And if not a compliment, at least watching my words so as not to deflect my own.

Thank you for stressing that to me.

Progress, not perfection.
Failure is when you fail to try.

Be encouraged by your tears.
Think of tears as droplets of your humanity.
Only people with a a beautiful soul quietly cry when they feel emotionally vulnerable.

I strongly sense that vulnerability is an issue with you.
Something to discuss, LATER.

Be well.

LOL .... A MAN read my secret!



That's why I said its a S.E.C.R.E.T.

Shhhhhhushhhhhhhhhh

Lest anyone misunderstand this ....

.

Men are simple in the sense that men are not complicated creatures, like we women.
My comment should not be taken as meaning men are simple minded, or less clever, or less deserving.
Men are, for the most part, easier to please than most women.

Men are like an abacus. Slide the beads along the rod, and soon you'll have results. Simple. Straightforward.

Women are like a rubik's cube. Tricky. Things must be in just the right order and performed in the correct sequence. Complicated.

Abacus? Rubik's cube? Sounds like engineer-speak to me, Ms. Band.

I would have expected a life-science professional such as yourself to utilize an explanation such as:



(Apologies for the embedded advertisement. I could not locate a copy without it.)

PEP,

You are on fire lately! You just reminded me to text my H and thank him for helping me out today. I also threw in a sexy little additional statement.

C8,

I know it is hard right now especially since there is so much resentment on both sides of the fence. Pep is right though, a little goes a long way and can really start to change the way you feel about your spouse.

I read your entire thread last night from beginning to end and I do see hope for both you and your H. No matter what, do what you need to do to help yourself. I promise you that making your spouse feel safe through your actions will calm him down and hopefully he will start showing you respect and getting rid of his AO.

Someone on here said you have to fake it to make it and you responded that you could not do that. I felt the same way at first because I carried a lot of sexual resentment towards my H way before my A.

Right after my A my H wanted sex and affection more than anything, he said it was is security blanket and the only way that he could deal with the A at the time. Then he just stopped having sex with me and turned cold.

It was this action along with my actions that made me really look at our SR and how important sex was to him and how even before the A he felt rejected every time I said no. Add an A to that mix and his insecurity doubled.

So I decided that no matter what I would enthusiastically make love to my H whenever he wanted it. Not only is our sex life better now than it ever has been, it truly has brought us closer.

Believe me C8 sometimes I do feel that overwhelming sensation of my needs and my wants and I want so bad to point out my H's faults and scream at him that LB's are bad but MB is good. I want to point my finger at him and shift blame.

But right now, it all boils down to that fact that no matter what your H's faults were, you were the one who chose to be weak. It sucks, I know but it is something that you can never take back. What you can do however is take back your life and make it better through your actions.

One last thought, it does really bother me that your H is intentionally trying to make you jealous and speaking of having RA's. This is not right, this is not healthy, this will not take his pain away. If there is any way you can discuss this with him and get him on this board to talk about it, you need to.

Progress not perfection. Love that. Thank you for sharing!

I often wonder how I allowed sexual resentment to enter my life. I had one relationship before I met my now husband and that guy cheated on me left and right. He also could not have sex with me unless an adult video was playing in the background. He was also an alcoholic. And the only reason that mattered is because it's why I ultimately ended our relationship. Instead, it should have ended the first time I found out he was cheating. But I thought we were madly in love and he would come around and be faithful again I suppose.

My H was different, but expressed interest in many things throughout our marriage. Webcam sex, chat rooms, adult videos, Big O events, etc. So, instead of feeling admired and loved, I felt I was being compared to model perfect porn stars. All the flowery words from him no matter how sincere they sounded wouldn't change that for me. I guess I participated because I thought "this will please him". And it left me feeling unloved, cold, bitter, and resentful. I grew to hate having sex.

But just like you said, because I could show that affection to someone else and had a PA with someone else, it's almost like that is my BS's security blanket now. At first I felt like he was just trying to mark his territory. Reading your post, I don't feel so alone in my WW foggy thinking now. I'm coming to understand it. Wrong as it is/was. Understanding goes a long way, though.

Daily the fog continues to lift. I try instead of fail to try.

I do still question why I felt so incredibly empty for 3 years prior to my A. Am trying not to focus on that as much though and just hope that through the rebuilding process and restoration that goes away.

I still feel absolutely alone. Like I now have a black mark on my forehead for all to see. I try to tell myself that I am still a valuable human being on this ball of mud we call earth, but today is just one of those days that the sadness has hit over the mess I've made. Remembering all the helpful advice I've received thus far on MB. I'm so thankful to all of you that have taken the time to help me out. You've dedicated your valuable time to come here and try to help. I'll always be grateful.

Time to go send my BS a nice text.

Have you sent your BH a heart felt apology letter?

Not one blaming him for not meeting your EN. A letter of you taking 100% responsibility?

If not, I would and post it here for feedback.

I knew what you meant, Pep

CR8,

Try not to fall into the Pity Pit...believe me I know it is hard not to do. I have stepped in it quite a few times the past few months. I would strongly suggest getting back on AD medicine. It has done wonders for me.

How well do you and your H communicate? Do you feel comfortable communicating with him sexually? Exploring and encouraging him to do things that you might like?

I have always been somewhat shy and leery about a lot of things but recently I have been much more honest and open with him as far as what I like, what I don't and why I resented him sexually. If you begin to do it slowing and honestly without harsh or hurtful words, it might make a difference.

I hope this helps, and hang in there.

Apology letter? Probably not. I've written him many notes trying to explain my thought process and feelings during the days/weeks/months after D-day and they've all had an apology in them. I suppose that is not the same though.

I will work on this. Thank you for asking.

I did write that NC letter. BH is still hanging on to it after a week. Is that normal? For him not to mail it?

When neither of us is feeling hurt and angry, we actually communicate pretty well. Always have to be honest. Except I suppose you could say that I am not a good communicator, though, because I would rather not communicate my needs. I back down very easily when he challenges me, questions my thought process, disagrees with my feelings, etc.. My IC tried to work through this with me for 7 months. We got no where.

I feel like I've got no fight left in me this morning. No fight to save it. No fight to end it. That's a sucky place to be. He so desperately needs to here I'm all in this fight.

He is working today and left with these parting words "I don't want to get hurt again but I have no control over that." I understand what he is saying. I could have immediately said "I've been hurt, too" but I didn't. I am trying to continue cleaning up my side of the street as BrainHurts said to me. Then I felt bad that I didn't say anything. But he left within a second of saying it, I didn't have the chance. Is there anything appropriate to say after those types of comments? I'm at a loss for words.

No, I do not feel comfortable discussing my SN's. Never have. I always felt it was taboo. It makes me feel all sorts of dirty.

I don't even feel like I have the right to discuss it now. I allowed my body to please OM. I now feel like I should never allow my body to please anyone. Not my BH, not me, nobody. Big hurdle to overcome.

This might help.
How to Overcome Sexual Aversion

As posted to you earlier ... it is no longer about you. When thoughts like this go through your mind ... trigger yourself to understand ... you murdered your betrayed husband. You are still equating having an affair to your lack of needs met in the marriage.

You are putting your adultery in that same category, and it isn't something you can compare.

Repeat...Repeat...Repeat

Your adultery is one of the most painful experiences he will feel until the day he dies. He will learn to move through it ... he will learn to not get angry over it ... he will never learn to not feel it.

You both failed miserably to meet each other's emotional needs in your marriage. You both had lovebusters that destroyed your love in your marriage.

He chose to be faithful

You chose to cheat .... here in lies the problem.

As you begin to heal him ... he will reciprocate to heal you ... as he begins to build trust he will become more vulnerable. This is where your hard work comes into play. You have to buck up and accept you no longer have the luxury of using the "You didn't meet my needs" game ... instead you have to drop all of your anger and resentment that was in you before your adultery ... you have to drop all bitterness and expectations.

You simply have to walk an action ... each and every minute ... walk your action ... meet his needs and discuss how you need your needs met as well.

Work POJA and PORH daily ... work it minute by minute ...

As this marathon gets going ... you are only at mile marker 0.5 ... you will begin to feel the pain ... it will burn just like your legs do when you hit mile marker 13.0 .... but once you cross that marker ... your body has finally adjusted to the pain ... you have conditioned yourself to make it ... you will no longer feel the pain. In the end at mile marker 26.0 you will feel love ... true genuine love

"I am deeply sorry to have caused you pain." <~~~ good

"I'm sorry you got hurt." <~~~ not so good

"I'm sorry you feel that way." <~~~ crappy

"I'm sorry, but I'm hurt too." <~~~

At least you kept yourself from going "there".

PROGRESS, NOT PERFECTION

Soothe your "taker" in some ways (self care) in order to refill your energy tank and keep your "giver" in charge of your choices. At least for now, OK?

Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint!

SF in adultery is just that dirty, slimmy, sleazy, putrid

SF in a loving committed relationship is a HIGH beyond a HIGH

You have to put your mind over matter because you are still foggy and selfish. The goal is to get vulnerable ... the goal is to move towards love.

SF will be an ecstasy HIGH when you and your BH make it past this anger and this resentment. When he can trust you again.

The goal is to work your top ENs for 25+ hours/week. This will trigger your brain chemicals to want to then top off these emotions with SF ... it will be great.

Please start to understand that SF is not great in Adultery ... SF is BEYOND HEAVEN in a relationship with a spouse that you love.

Work it from that angle. You have missed out ... you are correct ... your Pre-A marriage and your adultery didn't even hit the mark as to what is coming.

When you work the program .... work towards true genuine love without any lovebusters ... your SF will be so incredible you haven't seen anything like it yet.

If you have Netflix, try watching the 1992 English film, Enchanted April .
It's about 4 women who travel to Italy on a holiday.
They all have problems with relationships, each in their own way.
Pay special attention to the character Lottie Wilkins.
Especially when she arrives at her ephihony about "measuring" and "fairness" in her marriage. Then, pay attention to what happens when she plan A's her husband, and makes love bank deposits.
Lottie is not a WW, but the life lesson is still really good.
It's a total chick flick, but I love it.
Not to mention, the acting is superb! (well, it is British, after all)

I'm glad I came here this morning instead of holding it in. Thank you for helping me through. I am going to continue to work towards progress and not allowing his comments over the past 24 hours set me back.

I've also had Shirley Valentine recommended to me. Any reviews on that?

She has an affair.
I think it's a bad choice right now.

Crosses off my list. TY!

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1508780

This link to an old MB thread of mine was written as I was reading one of Dr Harley's less popular books. It helped deepen my understanding of the GIVER and the TAKER, and the importance of reverence for both in the marriage.

One concept that will probably be new to you is how long term sacrificing is detrimental, and creates an incompatible lifestyle. Read the thread understanding that for now, we are asking you to suspend your needs (for awhile) as a strategy of drawing your BH back to you (Plan A) ..... But that "plan A for life" is really stupid. People used to post that, which is why I started the thread ....

I must compliment you. The reason I am spending so much time with you is because you are very open to learning. Not every WW is as receptive as you .... As foggy as you still are, you show promise. I KNOW there is a shining star inside .... We are drawing her out, little by little.

Keep your chin up.

PrayIncessantly wrote a brilliant post.
Read it many, many times when you feel you are running out of steam.

You are essentially in Plan A ... And part of Plan A is self care, to keep your TAKER happy.

Don't fail to do self care.
It's so important we will remind you frequently.
We are especially partial to the mani/pedi .

I have felt many times this is going to be me...Plan A for life. With nothing in return and that I cannot expect anything in return. Thank you for sharing.

I did have some pampering yesterday. When I started the A, I changed my haircolor to one I knew OM liked. Then I ended up really liking it and even my H seemed to like it.

I thought that one way I could make a positive change and not be reminded of OM when I looked in the mirror each day to do my hair, was to change the color back to my natural brown. Found a new stylist that I knew through Cub Scouting and she did a wonderful job yesterday. (And for half the price I was previously paying! Score!)

When I came home, my oldest son was like "I love that!" and it seemed everyone had the same reaction. For them, it's the "old" me - even though it's just hair color, it still had a big impact on going back to my natural roots so to say.

I'm leary of self care because BS has made me feel very selfish every time I've indulged in self care. It could have been as simple as going to the library and enjoying a latte with a couple of magazines. It could have been elaborate as facial and makeup lesson. I have come to understand that most self care for mer personally does involve spending a little cash. I try to limit that because it puts stress on him and I have found nature walks to be very soothing for my soul. In the here and now, with no trust, he is not okay with that. I continue to find ways.

Also, thank you for saying that I show promise. That made me cry. To feel some hope through all of this is huge. And that another human that doesn't even know me, half way across the world, is willing to invest time and energy into me...it just means more than gold right now. TY!

I cry frequently.
DD22 is an esthatician.
Yesterday she was waxing my chin so I no longer resemble a hairy boar's butt.
She had put hard wax on both sides of my mouth. I looked at myself in the mirror and tried to smile. The resulting grimace was so funny, we could not stop laughing. I laughed all the way to tears. The mascara suffered greatly, but the tears were entirely worth the release.

I like it when people cry.
It gives everyone an opportunity to ((( hug ))) someone.

BH asked me what my EN's are. I have been trying to fill out the questionnaire to help me answer. I am coming up completely blank. Why am I having such a tough time with the questionnaire? I feel like I don't know how to express them or what's most important to me. What does this mean? I feel stuck.

It is based on a number scale. Go through the questionnaire and rank the questions by numbers.

Keep repeating if you aren't sure.

At first just do it without thinking to see what you get.

It takes time to tailor ... so you will continue to repeat this process until you feel you have them tailored correctly.

Tough~

I think part of my problem is that I've felt empty for so many years, I can't even recognize what my EN's are. Not having a pity party...just trying to put it in perspective.

CR8,

My EN's have changed several times since the first time my H and I filled it out. The first time we filled it out was right after we got the book SAA. We both just quickly filled it out without really understanding the point. Now that we really understand EN's especially our own, both of us have changed our lists a few times.

It's okay to be unsure, just start to understand EN's and yourself and you will figure it out. Make sure you let your H know as you discover what you want and need out of your marriage.

If I were you, I would start by trying to identify just what exactly the OM (purposely or not) did to get you to the point of taking this tragic leap. You're all over the place right now emotionally, and understandably so, so try and keep it simple. Figure out what needs HE met that your BH didn't. That might give you a clue and a starting point, then you can build from there.

Just a thought

You don't need to re-invent the wheel here.
Dr Harley has provided a list for you.


Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

Pick ONE as a priority, for now.
My guess is, you will pick affection.
Let me know what you decide as a priority.
If you can't decide because you honestly have no intimate ENs, let me know.

Question:
Do you frequently feel life has not been fair to you, but other people have had an easier life? A better life? A luckier life?

It's okay to be unsure, just start to understand EN's and yourself and you will figure it out. Make sure you let your H know as you discover what you want and need out of your marriage. [/quote]

We talked through it last night and then this morning, he took my questionnaire and read through it. And he got upset with me and told me there is nothing I like about him. I didn't even have a chance to explain any of my responses to the questionnaire. Now I just feel lost all over again.

No, actually not affection...I picked Family Commitment.

Life has absolutely been fair to me, beyond my imagination. No, I do not feel others have a better life or been given more opportunity or are luckier. Why do you ask?

I read in your signature you were a WW. The easiest way in your case to recognize your emotional needs is to recognize what needs the OM met. Those have a proven track record of causing you to fall in love. They are your emotional needs. You might be in the state of withdrawal, which would explain why you don't feel the needs right now; withdrawal means you are not open to having your needs met, and you may perceive them differently (e.g., sex drive may go down, a person whose real top needs might be sex and affection might instead identify "domestic support" and "financial support" as top needs). That will change as love bank deposits start being made.

What bothers you? What complaints do you have in your marriage? Those are your ENs.

Of course, it's all a moot point. Recognizing that reluctant spouses are often in withdrawal and will identify minor ENs as their top emotional needs, and recognizing that the four intimate emotional needs make the biggest love bank deposits, Dr. Harley's approach when he counsels couples is to tell ALL couples, regardless of what emotional needs they identify, to concentrate on meeting the four intimate emotional needs. His plan is to schedule 15 hours a week (25-30 hours if the marriage is bad) with husband and wife meeting all four intimate emotional needs.

The intimate emotional needs are:
recreational companionship
intimate conversation
affection
sexual fulfillment

Schedule 25 hours over the next seven days to do all four of those with your husband in a way you both enjoy. Repeat for a couple of weeks, and you will notice a difference.

There's no need to spend too much time on looking for insight into yourself or whatever to figure out your emotional needs. Just follow Dr. Harley's program.

You and your husband should definitely spend fifteen hours together a week with your children, then. Spend the time as quality time with your children, following the policy of joint agreement and imparting your values to your children as you enjoy life with them. i.e., teach your children thoughtfulness toward other people.

When you do this, you will notice a change. Your husband will be making love bank deposits, and you will begin to move from Withdrawal to Conflict. You will become more interested in having the four intimate emotional needs met.

However, do this AND what I suggested in my other post. In addition to your fifteen hours of family commitment time, schedule twenty-five hours of alone time with your husband in which the two of you will meet the four intimate emotional needs. Do this for a couple of weeks, while also meeting the FC need, and you will be amazed at the change in how you feel!!!!!

If this is this traumatic, you are on your way to creating an aversion to SF.

You need your husband to start meeting the other emotional needs so that you will feel more open to SF. Give him every opportunity.

You might also work through Dr. Harley's plan for eliminating a sexual aversion.

One typical problem with the first time through ENQs is that the things we write down may be worded as demands or disrespectful judgments. Steve Harley has some great rules for reading ENQs to each other (a poster here named CWMI has done a great job writing up those rules several times on the board, if you can find them) to try to avoid this, and that can help make the situation safer.

And a typical husband reaction is to feel that it would be easier if his wife just didn't feel the need she feels! i.e., I don't need to do a better job, I need better PR on the job I do. A typical man feels a strong need for admiration and anything that suggests he isn't doing as well as he could can come off wrong.

BUT

one fundamental Marriage Builders principle is that it is easier to change behavior than to change our feelings about behavior. i.e., it is easier for us to change our behavior that affects our spouse than it is for our spouse to just try to not feel that way. So it is absolutely important that complaints be heard, respectfully.

Does your husband post here on this board?

I already have an aversion. No question about that.

I will re-read his plan. The first time I read it, I'm not sure I found it to be a very clear plan. Maybe it was my fogged up brain. I will re-read.

Edited to add: I should say that his plan was all about relaxing. It seems as thought it should really be that simple. Working through the aversion, though, does not seem that simple. Continue trying, that's my motto.

Here How To Overcome Sexual Aversion

He does not post here that I am aware of. He has visited the site many times and ready articles. I have told him of the forums. He may be lurking. Not sure. Should I ask him directly?

Brain - you are so good at linking the pertinent articles/information. TYVM!

What sections of this website have you read? The Basic Concepts section explains what causes emptiness in a marriage, and what causes the opposite.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? Have you read it, cover to cover?

Absolutely. Please ask him to come here so we can help support him.

Here is an article from Dr. Harley that I believe can help you:

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage?

Take special note of this part:

Because I am very sneaky

what about his ENs worksheets? did he fill them in? did you discuss them? sorry if i missed that.

CR8,

You have some amazing people on your forum today helping you out. I just wanted to thank Markos especially. You have posted a lot of things that hopefully helped CR8 but also helped me Thank you!!

I did read the BC section. I will re-read.
Just checked out LB and SAA from the library today. Will get lots of reading done this weekend.

I did ask him about the website and he did not respond to me. Hasn't actually talked to me for 24 hours now because he's still upset at my answers to the ENQ.

His work shift is a bit later than the normal 8 - 5 so scheduling 4 hours of UA time is a little difficult with two school agers. In trying to think of a way to achieve this, and knowing that FC is my top need, I offered that we could perhaps do 2 hours of Conversation and Recreational Activity together as a family. We could play a family game or go to the park and after an hour, we could then sit it out and talk for an hour. Then head home, put kiddos to bed, and the other 2 hours, focus on the other two needs.

If anyone has suggestions on how they work 4 hours 4 times a week into their schedule, I'd love some feedback.

He did complete it.
We discussed his responses. Realistically, he's always been super at expressing his feelings/thoughts, so the answers were pretty much what I already knew. Nothing too revealing in his responses.

I have not read your thread .. but wanted to chime in what my wife and I do to at least get the 15 hrs minimum. Hard to get 20+ i know ..

Anyhow .. my wife and I usually get about 2 hours after the kids are in bed between 8:30 and 9pm the youngest one is asleep right away and my 14yo i just send her to her room. This is of course after all their martial arts they are BOTH involved in. Then we break out the crib board .. or the new game we got Citadels (amazing game btw) and start some general topics of conversation during game play. We often chit chat while we prepare lunches for the next day in the kitchen and share the chores .. and that makes great UA time too. If we dont like to do crib or citadels that particular night we catch up on some of our favorite shows that our PVR records and make out during commercials! (the new rule is only make out during commercials .. and soon as the show starts again we have to stop. Builds great anticipation!) We are often in bed by 11pm or so. Dr. Harleys rule about UA time is after 11pm doesnt count for UA but we dismiss that becasue we are often awake til midnight after heading to bed at 11 or so and chit chat some more .. or provide affection (back rubs etc).

Weekends is where our UA time shines. SInce we both work full time we get the best quality time in the mornings on saturday and sunday. We often dont leave our room til darn near 11am lol .. we wake about 8:00 or so. Our kids are old enough to fend for themselves and dont bug us so that is a plus.

Whats that add up to aprox?

10 hours during the week .. Give or take
6-8 hours in the mornings on weekends. (we value this time the most since during the week we are pretty run down from work etc.)

There is nothing wrong with setting up a movie for the kids and sneaking away for some UA time ... just put a lock on your bedroom door so they cant barge in! and have a radio playing in there so they cant hear your affection, conversation, or sexual fulfillment.

There was a funny episode of Modern family (they are all funny actually) were the kids barge in on the parents on fathers day? i think ... and after that they got a lock (the kids got it for dad as a late fathers day present). At the end of the show ... it showed the kids cringe every time they hear the door lock to the bedroom .. lol ..

MNG

He packed a suitcase, went to work this morning, did not say goodbye to me. Sends me an email that he wants all my passwords, access to phone, and if I can give him a commitment, he will come back home. (Let me say that even though this is a MB concept, due to issues with him having my p/w's early on, there is some serious PTSD surrounding it and my IC suggested a while back that to ease the pain on both sides, we share viewing emails, texts, phone logs, etc. together to help open communication back up along with build trust. I'm guessing you feel that is a bunch of BS, but it does really help the anxiety when we go through it together...)

Why does that feel like a SD even though I know what MB says about transparency and openness? Is it because he took a suitcase with him?

People say the pain of D is worse. Tell me that's true because right now, separation from all of this feels like it might be a healthy step to take. My body hurts, my skin is all broken out, I have a headache constantly, and all the while trying to keep my mental thoughts from going south.

And no, I am not still in contact with OM so please don't even go there. That is not what this is about anymore for me. I wrote the NC letter and I meant it. NC for life!

So, what type of commitment do I give my BH at this point that will settle his fears?

he's told you what kind of commitment he needs. he needs complete transparency.


requoted for emphasis. he will probably want more, but this is his get-started point for you to commit.

And is it acceptable to ask for the same in return?

Let's make this brutally plain:

The betrayed spouse drives the recovery bus, amiga. His fidelity is not in question here. Neither is your, btw, since it's a fact yours was faulty.

How DARE you conduct healing actions as a negotiation?

And take this off your epilogue - "working on the FWW status". Your attitude belies that statement.

The electronic stuff along with social media seems to be a HUGE and I mean HUGE trigger for your BH. It all needs to go (get rid of it all)... you share an email account with him from this day forward and you close down and cancel all social media.

For the phone have him get you a new number. He is the only one who knows it and it is only given to people he feels safe. He puts the password on it and it can only be used by you to call 911 for emergencies. For all other phone calls you use your home LAN line and you have all your friends and family call his number to talk to you.

It is the only way to build trust with him. If it is causing that much anxiety then get rid of it all. In some cases phones can be set up with emergency calling only. You may have to go that route. You have a phone ... he puts a password on it ... you can only use it for emergencies. He can check it only since he is the only one that knows the password.

That is the way it has to be until your trust is built.

For the love of Pete ... get out of your "me" mode... the selfishness and arrogance is maddening. If we can feel it from media that has no feelings then I can only imagine how your BH can feel it in real life. You are either all in or divorce him and let him be free of you. The fact you say separation feels like a healthy step means you are already a quitter. Either give him 100000% or get out and let the man be to heal from this horror.

so what are they and how are you meeting them?

Would asking your BH to do "the same in return" be a love bank deposit????
Methinks notsomuch.

Remember, you are essentially working Plan A - Your goal is to ease your H's pain while you demonstrate to him what a fantastic woman/wife you can be. Trustworthy. Thoughtful. Honest. Loving. Empathetic. Appreciative.

Make huge love bank deposits. Make no love buster/love bank withdrawals. <~~~ Your current goals.

If you feel like doing something outside those 2 simple goals, you better come here to ask.

So, how are you doing?

I cannot say your feelings are "wrong". Because feelings just "are".
You must appreciate that having a feeling of any sort is normal, transitional, not permanent, and does not always relate to reality/ethics/integrity/logic/or (again for emphasis) reality.

If you seriously never again want to feel physical pleasure, then eat dry bland unsalted foods. Drink only tap water. Use rough toilet paper. Buy cheap thin bed sheets and rough nubby towels. Purchase scratchy clothing. Take only cold showers. Use unpleasant smelling soap. Never shave your legs. All of these things could bring unwanted physical pleasure.

Wait awhile. Feelings change. They do.
Feelings are not facts.

Truth is, you'd said something earlier that made me wonder if you might be thinking you were a victim of life circumstances.
Your response (above) assures me you are not.
The "victims" are difficult for me to post to, because I expect MBers to take personal responsibility.

I think you are coming around & you are looking for answers. "Victims" are looking for sympathy.

Want to know where I got this list?
I'm going back into the hospital for another surgery in 8 days, and I am soooooo looking forward to experiencing this list ....... AGAIN.

So, I want to NAG you as much as I can, because soon you'll just have to make do without it.

.... at least I'll have some excellent drugs!

i have to admit, i've been worried about crzy8s being more concerned about what her BW needs to do to keep HER in the M, rather than what she needs to do to keep HIM!

pep, i hope your surgery isn't too awful. we have lovely hospitals here with real nurses and even tea ladies! almost better than home, because you can get "service" right away, lol. hope you feel better soon. we'll miss you!

Well put!
EGG ZAK LEE


Thanks, dear Letty. Last time, there was one afternoon with a harp player in the hallway. It's a great hospital, but it's a hospital not a Hilton.

I'm not sure what I wrote that made you believe I have all sorts of social media accounts. In fact, I closed Facebook down immediately the day he jumped on my account and updated my status with a "she will die" comment which sparked a concerned friend to call 911. Due to that, I contacted Facebook and they took my profile down. I have not re-created an account.

The only account I have is one email account for family, children's school, and scouting.

My friends call me if they need to reach me. I rarely text. I rarely make calls. And BH has always had account access to my cell phone because he is the account holder. It's not even in my name.

I gave him the p/w for my email account. All I did was come here and ask if the same should be reciprocated based on our circumstances. However, I will not come to this board and ask such questions given this response.

And no, I will NOT take working on "F"WW status out of my sig line because it is TRUE despite your accusations. TYVM! I'll figure it out on my own if I need to. Sorry I felt confusion and came here to help clear my WW thinking up. Obviously I misunderstood the purpose of this board. I'm learning to take the selfishness out of my posts and I work on this every day, even to the point my BH has noticed and given me praise for doing so. He has known me for 15 years and knows this isn't typical behavior for me...I got "sidetracked". I still believe anyone can recover from this with the proper support and guidance. I came here looking for that. Sorry it seemed otherwise to you. I'll figure it out.

I feel like I try to make deposits, but we start discussing our relationship on his queue and I end up making withdrawals. We both do in fact.

The good thing is though that we are both starting to recognize it a lot quicker and try to stop right then and there.

We are both reading SAA and I've also got the LB book going simultaneously.

Progress today was that he had the day off and I asked him if he'd come have lunch with me. He chose the restaurant and offered to pick me up. We survived. And we choose to build on that. It was a positive experience today. That's where I'm at. TY for asking, Pep!

I've never felt I was the victim. Quite the opposite. I'm glad you asked and didn't just assume. Sorry I led you to think that initially.

Make it your business to make no love busters.
Especially if he LBs himself. Do not tit-for-tat-LB.
If you think there is any justification for your love busters, you'd be mistaken.

OK?

Carry on ...... Eye on the prize.

I actually mentioned this to him. "You are in charge of this" and he is in disagreement with that. I said "this is all about how I can help you to build trust again and so forth" and he said "no, it's about you and your feelings, you are the one who went outside the marriage". And I have no response to that. Other than to choose to do better each day for him.

I accidentally replied to PraysIncessantly I think about the "working on FWW status". Please read that. It was actually meant for you.

Keep Calm and Carry On.
You got it.

Good advice. I think I'll take it.

Her "BW"...I'm the wife. So that should be BH, I'm guessing.
I'm quite clear that he's not doing anything to keep me other than telling me every day that he wants to keep this marriage in tact. I understand the work is mine to put in now. I think you are right, though, my posts do come across that way. I will consider that prior to posting next time. TY for pointing it out.

you're welcome! (and yes, i meant BH.) keep up the good work! remember, marathon, not sprint (so much easier to tell others than to do - voice of experience there).