hi there new member here.
After 12 years together, married for 7 my wife wants to separate.
We have had our ups and downs over the years but the last 12 months have been bad.
I have my own business and work from home, my wife has been a house wife for the last 3 years. We have 3 children ages 3,5,8.
She started the gym around 18 months ago, this was great to see my wife getting out and doing this rather than being stuck in with me.
During the last few months we have been arguing a lot about stuff and I have said a lot of hurtful things. Trouble is I could feel her pushing me away and affection was none.
I feel that me working from home and being in each other's pockets all day has killed our marriage.
She wants to separate and has totally disconnected from me. For the last few months she sleeps on the couch then comes to bed early hours.
Now she sleeps on the couch all night and has nothing to do with me.
We are just going to get through Xmas before breaking it to the kids.
I don't want it to end and now she has said she wants to separate,I took it badly and it hurt me.
I don't know how to leave. What about my kids I can't bare not being in our family home it's so heart breaking.
We never had many fiends or social life. I worked 12-14 hour days to give us money to pay bills and holidays and stuff so I neglected my marriage in the process.
I have made mistakes lately and realised she was slipping away and tried to get us close again by showing lots of love and affection but the damage was already done and she left me in her head months ago it would seem.
I tried the 180 on her, I started boxing yesterday then went to the cinema straight after. I had 11 missed calls and numerous texts asking where I was, I ignored them, when I returned home she was really chatty and nice to me.
Now today she is back to her distant sell and horrible attitude and tone to me.
It blew up again earlier with some blaming in each other so we have taken 10 steps back again.
I love her so much but she don't want it anymore.
I guess I will just have to move out.
mab,
Sounds very strongly that your W is a WW and she is in at least an emotional affair.
Has your W ever said "I love you but am not in love with you"
I would suspect it is someone at the gym, does she have a "trainer" ?
Although it seems like the fights start with you the dynamic here is that your W stopped giving you affection which lead to resentment on your part which then lead to your fighting with her.
God Bless
Gamma
Yes exactly that I love you but not in love with you,
She attends the gym every night with the same trainer for body pump and spin class.
He is married with 2 kids.
I suspected this but never found any proof.
Let's say that the sex at home increased.
I had a gut feeling something was going on and made her aware I knew something but I think I just pushed her away more.
I agree with Gamma, this story sounds all too familiar. You need to start snooping and see if she's having an affair.
Also, do not leave your home. She can ask you all she wants but it is an unreasonable request. And none of us are going to advise you to continue the 180, so I would suggest reading up on Plan A in the MB articles.
Also, do not accuse her of this or reveal your snooping while you're doing it. Lots of great resources on here that can help you find out. But if she finds out you are suspicious or onto her trail, she will take the affair underground or may even leave your house, as my wife did.
Be discreet.
Get proof of an affair and then come back here and we'll tell you what to do from there.
Well she keeps her phone always on her.
I went out in the car earlier and she came out of the house fast to get her bag which had her phone in it.
I said why you so protective of your phone she said she has convos of her friends on there she does not want me to read.
A. You need to snoop and find out who your wife has made a connection with. The gym is the obvious candidate as the 1st place to investigate.
Oh, but your wife would never cheat?
Baloney!!! Once they get emotionally and then physically invested in a new partner, you can do no right.
If you doubt me, then read through a dozen threads here, specifically looking for how Husbands are completely blindsided. It happens every time. Who is her new or reacquainted male gym friend?
But, you HAVE TO eliminate ALL Love Busters from your side of the street, no matter what she slings at or about you.
Has she become attached to her cell phone yet? If not, then when you have the 1st opportunity, install a Spyware software on it to see all texts, e-mails, photos and her contact list.
E-Blaster by Spectorsoft is one such software that is commonly referred.
You can very quickly check the cell phone itemized bill and look for patterns of frequent contact.
THEN..... And this is CRUCIAL. Do NOT let on to her about anything that you might find.
When you discover patterns and identify tbe perpetrator invading your marriage, then come back here and follow the stepd on how to expose it properly to crush it before it gets even more entrenched.
B. If you move out now, you might as well just give up on your marriage.
Dr. Harley has a very good article about, "Men, Don't Leave Your Home", which you should read.
Now, read through all of the Basic Concepts on this site and tbe free articles and learn how to properly prioritize your marriage.
Have Faith and follow the steps precisely.
LTL
I hear what your saying or could it just be that we have grown apart over the years and stopped caring about our marriage and then started hating each other causing the arguments v
Well she keeps her phone always on her.
I went out in the car earlier and she came out of the house fast to get her bag which had her phone in it.
I said why you so protective of your phone she said she has convos of her friends on there she does not want me to read.
You answered this while I was posting.
STOP asking questions or acting suspicious.
You need to let her feel she can put her guard down.
It's more than likely her trainer. They are Very Common Players, in a highly susceptible environment specifically geared towards admiring and providing your WW's (Wayward Wife's) needs.
LTL
I hear what your saying or could it just be that we have grown apart over the years and stopped caring about our marriage and then started hating each other causing the arguments v
Do you hate your wife? I'm going to guess you don't because you're here trying to save your marriage.
I've been in your shoes, thinking my wife's sudden urge to get a divorce was my fault and I somehow made her so angry that she couldn't tolerate me.
But it wasn't true. And she would have gone to court and divorced me already without saying a word about her affair if I hadn't uncovered it myself. She had no intention of telling me, most WWs don't.
You HAVE to at least snoop to find out if there's an affair. And do so discreetly. If you come back empty handed and it's really about you and not some other man, then we can help you with that too.
But none of the medicine for winning her back if she's "just angry" at you will work if she's having an affair. It's like getting a biopsy to figure out if it's cancer or just a cyst. One problem is much more serious than the other. Gotta find out if it's an affair first.
I said why you so protective of your phone she said she has convos of her friends on there she does not want me to read.
Like LTL just said, don't say anything more like this. Get the info in a discreet fashion.
I have been tracking her with find my iPhone app and she is always where she says she is. I don't believe she is meeting anyone.
Unless it's happening in the gym but surely there are other people around.
I hear what your saying or could it just be that we have grown apart over the years and stopped caring about our marriage and then started hating each other causing the arguments v
NO.
If people feel like they are growing apart, they attempt to rengage, unless someone else is in the picture.
Uncloud your thinking.
Seriously, you know the least about affairs and how they begin and how the WS, (Wayward Spouse), acts while being involved.
Just accept everyones accurate observations as truth.
Also, the BullSheet 180 Plan does more to Distance the couple than to rengage them. It has some valid points, but the concept is completely flawed when it comes to affairs.
If you are trying to pick points from 2 different programs and combine them, then it will be a surefire path to marital destruction.
Oh..... By the way. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME!!!
LTL
I have been tracking her with find my iPhone app and she is always where she says she is. I don't believe she is meeting anyone.
Unless it's happening in the gym but surely there are other people around.
Duh!!!
Doesn't she meet her trainer EVERY SINGLE TIME AT THE GYM?
I told you that you are the blindest voice on there is topic.
Each of those other guys pisting have recently gone through near identical situations with their WW's.
This is not our 1st rodeo. Anyone who reads these marriage/infidelity forums can spot an affair in a few acute observation that you won't allow yourself to recognize due to Denial and other Rationalizations.
LTL
She says she is fed up with me taking to her like crap and making comments about her.
I know this but I feel I have been pushed away and left with insecurities from her behaviour also, which led to arguments more and accusations being made.
The gym buddies are going out at the end of January for a night out. I said she couldn't go as we need to save for our trip to America in May we have purchased. I get the feeling she wants to be able to do what she wants without anyone saying differently.
If there is not an affair yet I believe that with be the night they come together.
Once you accept the reality of the situation, click the "Notify" button at the bottom of the posting box to contact a Forum Moderator who should be asked to move your topic thread into the SAA, (Surviving An Affair), subforum.
These boards may not be heavily populated for the next few days due to tge Christmas Holiday and the upcoming weekend, but be patient. Some posters will respond.
LTL
She says she is fed up with me taking to her like crap and making comments about her.
I know this but I feel I have been pushed away and left with insecurities from her behaviour also, which led to arguments more and accusations being made.
The gym buddies are going out at the end of January for a night out. I said she couldn't go as we need to save for our trip to America in May we have purchased. I get the feeling she wants to be able to do what she wants without anyone saying differently.
If there is not an affair yet I believe that with be the night they come together.
Rule # 1:
Don't believe ANYTHING a Wayward says.
Don't bother with ANY Relationship discussions AT ALL. They will just push her farther away and force her hand in digging in her heels more firy against you.
You are the ENEMY of her Affair and her Fantasy envisioned new life.
ALSO. Read the article about Love Busters..... NOW!!!
You must STOP ALL ARGUMENTS. NOW. THIS MINUTE.
After you read and relate to the Love Busters information on this site, then order the 2 Books, Surviving An Affair and Love Busters.
Don't even bother about what she is going to be planning to do a Month from now. You are not dealing with the present.
LTL
Also, if SHE wants to separate, then Man Up and Stand Your Ground.
The children STAY in THEIR Family Home.
If SHE wants to leave, that will make the affair more difficult due to her self imposed consequences.
Do not argue. Do not debate. Just say, No, we can work together to build our marriage better than it ever has been. Then, ask her if she wants a sandwich or a cup of hot chocolate.
NEVER get drawn into an arguement. That stops yesterday!!!
LTL
So I should stop the going out and disappearing act of the 180 then and just speak to her nicely and help out ?
So I should stop the going out and disappearing act of the 180 then and just speak to her nicely and help out ?
How can you show and implement changes if you are not there?
The 180 you referred to wants you to look like you can get along without her, and while you should remain upbeat, strong and desireable, that can better be displayed in front of her. You do NOT want to appear weak and on the pity pot and if you get struck by the Infidelity Diet and stop eating, start losing sleep and get all depressed, you will absolutely Not look as an attractive option.
You need to READ the information on this site and order those 2 books. It will cut down your learning curve immensely.
LTL
To learn how to change your behavior from an Act to Actu as l changes, you need to read up on as plan A.
In the SAA subforum, the top Sticky Post says, Read This First. Do that. Read about the Carrot and Stick of Plan A thread link.
Plan A does Not mean becoming a Doormat or allowing the Affair to go unchallenged. It also does not require meanness or revenge.
Read and learn.
Put in your spying techniques.
Get the Truth and Answers before she hides things too deep.
LTL
I told her earlier I am going nowhere I that if she wants out she should leave and file for divorce she said she going nowhere and that she not thought that far ahead yet.
mab,
You wrote, Unless it's happening in the gym but surely there are other people around.
My experience with "trainers" is that they are often untrained egotists who believe their own healthy physique somehow qualifies them to train others. They work for fly by night companies which come and go and often appear to constantly be on the make for new female recruits.
I would also suspect you are dealing with a serial cheater here who uses his profession to go from one woman to the next so he is well practiced and knows how to avoid detection.
Do not let on to anyone, especially your wife, that you are gathering data. They will try to spin a story that you are a crazy jealous husband. If you get evidence present it to OMW, other mans wife, before you confront OM. Do you have access to the cell phone bill?
Put a voice activated recorder in her car, hire a PI to observe their interactions at the gym, if you have a friend who goes to the gym perhaps he can spy for you.
God Bless
Gamma
You don't discuss divorcen
Waywards are lazy. They threaten, but don't follow through.
Good for you claiming your homestead, but don't get pulled into a Divorce discussion again.
Bring up something different and fun. Yes, she will say you are ignoring it, but just tell her you are willing to give her the marriage you both deserve. If she presses on about divorce, just politely smile and tell her lawyers can talk about that. You are very willing to discuss improving the marriage.
Did you Read the topics that were suggested yet?
It's Your Marriage.
LTL
I thought of joining her gym. She starts a job on Monday so I will have all day without her.
This guy does some daytime classes, maybe him seeing me there and knowing who I am might have an affect ?
Tbh I don't think this guy is after her as such I believe it's just my wife has a wide on for him
mab,
At this point assume nothing, this OM may just be a smooth operator, make no assumptions and do your spying.
There is no point in confronting this OM until you have the goods on him. When you do put the OM on cheaterville, expose him to everyone in his life, get him fired from the gym etc.
The one thing you do not want to do is drive the relationship deep underground where it can smoulder for years.
God Bless
Gamma
I have found the program teensafe which looks a good spying program
Hi mab, welcome to Marriage Builders. WE can help you save your marriage if you have the ability to follow a plan. If you can follow the plan, you have a great chance at saving your marriage.
Your wife is having an affair and if you can kill it, you will have a chance at saving your marriage.
You do have some bad ideas about marriage in general and I can address those too, but the most concerning thing you have said is that you are using the "180 plan." This plan is a disaster because FURTHERS the emotional detachment in your marriage. Your marriage is almost dead because of detachment. MORE detachment will not be the solution. She needs to see you as the most attractive option. Being detached does not make you attractive.
I hear what your saying or could it just be that we have grown apart over the years and stopped caring about our marriage and then started hating each other causing the arguments v
Women don't separate for these reasons, though. They stay and try to fix the marriage. And they don't say "I love you but am not in love with you" unless they have a new point of comparison.
Your wife is having an affair. I am sorry.
I have been tracking her with find my iPhone app and she is always where she says she is. I don't believe she is meeting anyone.
Unless it's happening in the gym but surely there are other people around.
Lots of people have affairs at gyms. And at the office. Even the dumbest wayward knows how to hide an affair.
I have found the program teensafe which looks a good spying program
It's a good spyware, but I can't state if it operates in Stealth Mode.
You do not want your WW to know you are spying, otherwise she will find alternative means of contact.
LTL
voice activated digital voice recorder velcro tapped under the driver's seat in her car. You'll catch her cell phone conversations with OM and/or her girlfriends and get all the info you need.
Do not let on that you are spying or even suspicious.
Do not confront her immediately with the tiniest bit of confirmation you achieve with the recorder.
The wall of denial you are attempting to climb is high. Just one piece of evidence, isn't always enough to surmount it. She will claim she KNEW she was being spied on and was testing you or something stupid like that. She knows what she is doing but getting enough evidence means you can convince her that YOU know exactly what she is up to, who is involved and who is enabling her (which friends you'll need to cut out) and trying to sneak around won't work.
Oh...and if you are posting on another forum. STOP.
The 180 plan is a trick plan designed to make your eventually divorce less emotionally taxing on you because you start detaching right away. It will only save your marriage by accident, if ever and merely serves to confirm for your wayward wife that you don't really care all that much about her. Not to mention it is an abandonment of your vows to love, honor, cherish and protect your wife.
Your wife is in a dangerous situation and predicament. She needs you to stop fearing her reactions and making her angry and start standing up for your marriage and family. This isn't going to be easy but the courage is found in the doing.
You will make it.
Mr. W
My wife was extremely protective of her phone after her affair started. I look back on it now as obvious evidence of the affair. I continually made the mistake of trusting her for no good reason other than that she was my wife.
The 2 books that were recommended to you will be incredibly helpful.
well i installed teensafe and downloaded all the data of calls messages deleted messages and there is nothing there at all.
maybe we just did grow apart over the years and with my abuse at her she has just had enough.
my sex drive as always been higher than hers and my needs have always been more.
I made it very clear I am going to make this marriage better she wants no part of it and that I should do the right thing and leave.
I'm going no where I work from home my business is established here if she wants out she needs to go, I'm staying and will fight this.
You might put a voice activated recorder in her car and think of other ways to spy on her. She is having an affair and the longer you take to bring it out, the more entrenched it will become.
I don't think she is though. She never just goes out anywhere and I have tracked her. She only goes the gym and town centre I track her with the app.
Gym has finished until after Xmas and she has no plans to go out either.
If she was having an affair she would be making excuses to get out
I don't think she is though. She never just goes out anywhere and I have tracked her. She only goes the gym and town centre I track her with the app.
Gym has finished until after Xmas and she has no plans to go out either.
If she was having an affair she would be making excuses to get out
I disagree. For all you know, her boyfriend is out of town with his family for Christmas. Her behavior indicates an affair and there are many reasons she wouldn't be making excuses to get out. You need to stay on this and do a better job of snooping.
"maybe we just did grow apart over the years and with my abuse at her she has just had enough.
my sex drive as always been higher than hers and my needs have always been more."
Women don't separate over this. They do separate over an affair, though.
WW and OM are doing it in a car at the gym, some out of the way private area in the gym.
OM is traveling for now.
Get that VAR for her car now.
Well there is nothing going on with Her phone so If it is happening its all through convos in the gym.
Any ideas?
It could be an affair phone(bought by OM or her), that happens all the time.
Well there is nothing going on with Her phone so If it is happening its all through convos in the gym.
Any ideas?
Has it occurred to you that she has may have an affair phone? It is a very common thing for people to do. That's why you need a VAR.
Defo no other phone absolutely certain
Defo no other phone absolutely certain
How can you be so sure? You can go to Walmart, buy a preloaded phone with no contract for less than $20, and you are up and running. I doubt you would ever know.
Defo no other phone absolutely certain
Your major Denial is going to severely hurt any chances you have for recovering your marriage.
It is only the Betrayed Spouses who ACT and follow up that are successful.
My goodnes, wouldn't You be able to buy a $20.00 Trac Phone and keep it hidden if you wanted?
Even without using a cell phone, they see each other How Often on a regulations basis at the gym???
Take off your blinders. This happens every day.
LTL
Ouch, this sounds like what happened to me. After 5 months of hell, she is just recently willing to try again. I found nothing so far, but still suspect an EA did and may still be going on. I am no expert, and I am not out of the woods yet, but I did manage to bring her back to the point of trying again.
This is what helped turn the tide initially, along with coaching (which I think is also very important, I could not follow the instructions faithfully without it). **EDIT**
Defo no other phone absolutely certain
Can you afford a PI?
It's over guys regardless of what I do she has moved on.
We met when she was 17 , had kids and married quickly. I have only been her only sexual partner in all her life. She out grew me a long time ago I think. I like s lot of affection and it's something she has never give in all her time with me. It's not an affair it's just a too young too soon relationship. I like a touchy feel relationship holding hands hugs and kisses she has never been like this. I deserve more and she has told me lots of times , she will always be shallow I think regardless if future boyfriends. She is absolutely stunning though and j don't think I will ever meet anyone so perfect in looks and body in my life, but I would sacrifice that for someone who loves and shares that affection back to me.
It's over guys regardless of what I do she has moved on.
We met when she was 17 , had kids and married quickly. I have only been her only sexual partner in all her life. She out grew me a long time ago I think. I like s lot of affection and it's something she has never give in all her time with me. It's not an affair it's just a too young too soon relationship. I like a touchy feel relationship holding hands hugs and kisses she has never been like this. I deserve more and she has told me lots of times , she will always be shallow I think regardless if future boyfriends. She is absolutely stunning though and j don't think I will ever meet anyone so perfect in looks and body in my life, but I would sacrifice that for someone who loves and shares that affection back to me.
That's a load of sh*t. Where in your wedding vows did it say "or until you get tired of each other"? If you really think that she has just "moved on" you are still just giving up on your family and your marriage. For your kids sake, how can you not try and make a better life? Marriages survive affairs all the time, yours can survive whatever your wife's problem is. It takes effort and you can't just throw in the towel when its too hard.
The two of you can learn to meet each other's emotional needs and recreate the compatibility you have given up on. You can make a better marriage and that creates a better family.
I would and want too but she having none of it.
People do outgrow people it's not all about affairs.
I believe she may be wandering in her head about a better life better lover but nothing going on as yet.
I hear what your saying but let's just say she is sick of the abuse and arguments and has moved on in her head, how do I get her back from that ?
I'm telling you she is way over me
I still have my money on an affair.
Did she ever approach you about abuse and arguments in the past?
Your abusive actions are habits that you can overcome. You should read the book "Love Busters" by Dr.Harley.
It's over guys regardless of what I do she has moved on.
We met when she was 17 , had kids and married quickly. I have only been her only sexual partner in all her life. She out grew me a long time ago I think. I like s lot of affection and it's something she has never give in all her time with me. It's not an affair it's just a too young too soon relationship. I like a touchy feel relationship holding hands hugs and kisses she has never been like this. I deserve more and she has told me lots of times , she will always be shallow I think regardless if future boyfriends. She is absolutely stunning though and j don't think I will ever meet anyone so perfect in looks and body in my life, but I would sacrifice that for someone who loves and shares that affection back to me.
DO NOT give up mab. There is so much more you can do to change this thing around. Whether there is an affair or not (I think there probably is, if only in her mind), there is a lot you can do to improve and maybe change things. The sucky part is it isn't easy. It will beat you up and take a lot of self discipline, but you will know you went to the wall for your marriage, your wife, your love.
Don't quit. Listen to the good folks on this board and you and your wife will be better for it no matter what happens.
Merry Christmas and I pray the grace of the Lord is your refuge in this storm.
People do outgrow people it's not all about affairs.
You need to stop getting your relationship concepts from the popular media.
Good marriages are built. They don't just happen. People don't outgrow each other. Rather, they fail to meet each other's needs, often opening the door to having those needs met by others.
Even in the unlikely case that your wife is not having an affair, she is still in withdrawal. You need to Plan A her out of withdrawal.
My wife said that too, it was absolutely for sure over, now she is trying again.... It can be done.. It is hard and it takes time and discipline.
All love busters have to stop immediately. All interactions need to be positive and build love. She needs to be feel good about talking to you. This is the hard part because she is rejecting right now and trying too hard or pushing too hard will push her away... Research ***EDIT***
Marriage Builders has the best plan I have ever seen to give one the best chance at reconciliation. So what does he need to research?
Hey, I'm not an expert, just trying to say what worked for me.
***EDIT***
Her love bank is closed and needs to be opened. I believe that is key and the most difficult part. I needed more specific help and a plan on how to do this, which was hard to find and I haven't seen anyone mention...
Hey, I'm not an expert, just trying to say what worked for me.
***EDIT***
Her love bank is closed and needs to be opened. I believe that is key and the most difficult part. I needed more specific help and a plan on how to do this, which was hard to find and I haven't seen anyone mention...
Well, Marriage Builders does have a plan and it is very bad form to come on Dr Harley's free forum and refer people to resources that he doesn't recommend.
Pole, I want to point out that you are not in a recovered marriage. Just because your wife said she "wants to work on the marriage" does not mean your problems are solved. Our goal on Marriage Builders is to RECOVER the love in the marriage. MB has a plan to achieve that goal. Dr. Harley didn't set up and provide a free forum to discuss personal philosophies and programs that he doesn't endorse.
Hey, I'm not an expert, just trying to say what worked for me.
***EDIT***
Her love bank is closed and needs to be opened. I believe that is key and the most difficult part. I needed more specific help and a plan on how to do this, which was hard to find and I haven't seen anyone mention...
Anyone mention? Dr. Harley has loads of free advice on his website on the plans. Why would you come and tell a new poster to "research" when you're on Dr. Harley's free forum with loads of free advice on his plans?
Do you listen to MBradio (which is also free)?
What actions has your wife done to work on your marriage?