HI MB Folks

I have set up a new thread, I was previously on Dating and Relationships, with the log on name Reasonswhy. I decided to move off there as BF mentioned about me doing 'online chats' and I am concerned that he may check up on the site. So I know I am in the wrong section but thought I would move off there for the time being. All those that have been helping me SugarCane, LivingWell, BrainHurts, Goody2shoes, Melody_Lane and any other posters, please continue to support me I really need it.

HI MB peeps - I hope you all had a good weekend.

So I am going to give myself a huge pat on the back for 2 weeks in Plan B, with no contact of BF. I survived pretty well a major milestone of BF moving into his new house and the kids staying over on Sat night. I am also feeling pretty sane and have not fallen apart. I feel like I have gained some self esteem back instead of clinging on to a humiliating situation.

I am quite amazed at how strong I have been and I guess what is getting me through is the support of this site and how poorly he treated me when we were together. I have focused on that when I have a weak moment. Although

So the only thing I am doing which is not good is;

1. Checking his instagram to see what he has been upto
2. Snooping with the kids to find out about house and gain any insight into what he is thinking.

From the last post BrainHurts said I need to come off the Whatsapp group which I have now done.

I found out from the kids that when they stayed overnight that he asked about what Mummy was doing tonight and where was she going and who with. Does that show that there is still something there? Is there any hope?

I also found out that he has told the lead football coach that we had separated and was also honest about why!!! That he had made a very silly mistake with another woman and that we were separated.

I think he might be accepting this whole thing is over and has really moved on. I need to do the same. In someway I think this site is giving me false hope. I am not quite prepared to face that. I guess I am looking for signs that he is still wants to sort things out, by his ways of finding constant contact and asking the kids what I am doing.

I need to send over a long term visit schedule this week. That is the next thing.

I still cant bring myself to write a PLan B letter - to me that is more humiliation.

I have emailed Joyce Harley to see if I can get another session on the radio. As last advice was to separate with the intention of dating and falling back in love. The problem is, BF is insisting there is no other woman and he is telling the kids that he will never do that again, so doubtful as how to move through this next stage.

I hope you find me all of you!!!


Thank you

I hope you guys find me on here! This is my new thread that was previously in dating section under Reasonswhy.

The anger and shock has now passed through to a full full ache of missing the old him. I am not breaking down in tears just missing him.

Is this normal?

I have heard nothing. Thinking was I that awful that he would give up me, his kids and his home?

Have a good day guys.

Just had message from IM from BF

Hi, can someone let me know how DD is please? Ive heard 2nd hand through the school that she was ill yesterday. If I could be told it will be nice thank you".

I didnt let him know and now feel bad.

IM should have responded without letting you know. Spam-filter, firewall. In her own words, no more copy-paste BF messages. And only relevant messages.

This is not NC. That's why you feel bad.

Thanks Good2shoes - should I have informed him DD was off sick? Thanks

We have moved this thread back to the Dating/Relationship forum since it doesn't belong in the Surviving an Affair forum. If you feel the threads need to removed because they have been detected, let me know and we discuss options. Thank you.

Thank you Denali. I hope previous MB posters pick up on my new thread!

Best to start with plan B.

Read the 'how to plan B' topic.

Write the letter, state your boundaries, under what circumstances are you willing to reconcile (if you are not willing to reconcile, tell him that). Let him know why you are doing this and what the rules are.

Protect yourself legally.

Did you send your sister the IM link? Send it again, because she is not following the instructions.

Another good day thanks to all your help.

Feel a bit low and then get better as the day goes on. Been exchanging emails with Dr Harley and he has given me advice for PLan B letter. So thats all ready to go.

Does it feel bad to say that I am starting to get a bit bored and want to now start going out more having a life. IS that right or ok?

Hey MelodyLane and Living Well

I am here!! This is my new thread

Will you post your Plan B letter here, so we can provide feedback?

Fantastic, each day you will feel a little better. Did Dr Harley suggest you keep the door open to a possible recovery and marriage or has he changed his advice on that?

For now, get a dog, pick up a sport, find a hobby, volunteer, do fun things with your children. They are heavily dependent on you and are watching you carefully. Stay away from dating!

Hey BrainHurts and Living Well

So pleased you found my thread

OK here goes my letter reviewed and approved by Dr Harley;;


Dear BF

Your affair has made living with you the most painful experience of my life. I could also not tolerate your drinking or your anger, and all of those things together was the reason I wanted us to separate.

I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. My sister will agree to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through her.

If you can prove your affair is over, have stopped drinking and are in some anger management program, then we could see start dating again. If you wanted to live with me again then you would have to marry me first.

I loved our life together, I have never felt so contented. You were everything to me successful, fun, father of our children and I never so much looked at another man. All I ever wanted for the future was for all four of us to be together and have a wonderful life. I remember once you said 'i hope we are buried together' and thats how I saw it too.

I loved you since I first met you and still do now, but cannot go back to how it was.

Love CoolB

Hi Living Well

Yes Dr Harley suggested keep the door open but doesn't sound very optimistic in regards to recovery!!!

Dr Harleys advice;

The problem you face is that he never had legally committed himself to you. Living together without being married is a very precarious situation for women because they have no legal agreement for support for their future. Men who live with women without being married are characteristically unfaithful, and much more violent than men who are married (90% of all cases of domestic violence are with unmarried men who live with their partners). He does what he pleases because there is very little recourse for you when you object. While this relationship may end, you should not return to him under the conditions that you left because things would only get worse for you in the future. You should definitely see an attorney about child support and custody arrangements.

He may react to your letter with anger, but you should not second guess yourself. You have done the most reasonable thing to do for anyone in your situation. He may want to see you to discuss the situation face-to-face, to try to talk you out of your plan, but you should decline until your conditions are met. Surround yourself with people who support you in what you are doing.

Thanks for sharing the letter. Have you sent it to him yet?

What do you think about Dr. Harley’s advice? The letter?

Thank you BrainHurts

Yes I agree with Dr Harleys advice and will stick to the plan.

I haven't sent the letter and I don't want to give it to him until he attempts to try and talk about anything. At the moment its been 2.5 weeks and he hasn't made any attempts. I dont want the humiliation of sending him anything yet.

My son came home from football last night saying - Daddy keeps talking about how much he loves you and how much he loves his family

Without sending the letter you are in limbo. When you send it, you lay out the rules and what your boundaries are. It is not like you are begging him to take you back.

Ok thank you goody2shoes

I agree. Send him the letter.

Also, him trying to send messages through your son about "loving you" and "missing his family" is his way of trying to break Plan B. With the letter it states exactly what you expect.

Coolbeginnings, you really should send the letter. What could possibly be humiliating since you are not in contact with him? It is up to you to make sure he can't get through by closing those holes.

I have also recommended many times that you get legal protection. Not doing so leaves you in a very vulnerable position. Just send the letter!

Did you tell your son to stop giving you these messages as I suggested above?

Disaster strikes.

Came home from work in a good mood looking forward to spending time with the kids tonight and them for day off school tomorrow.

Get message from my IM from BF requesting regular phone calls with the kids every other day. Also saying that he is not seeing DD until Sunday and that could he take them home from skool tomorrow'. It was a really long message.

My IM is proving rubbish. She clearly doesnt want to do it and thinks I should be dealing with him. She sends me a cut and paste of whatever he sends. Also whatever comes through to my sister IM, goes round the family - further embarassment/gossip fodder.

Now considering dealing direct with BF in regards to child arrangements.

My mother also phoned tonight annoyed with me that she wasn't informed the kids were off skool tomorrow and that I am not keeping her in the loop? I spoke to her 2 days ago and feel that she was out of order putting extra pressure on me right now, its like my family are making this into a massive drama and i am actually doing ok in my little bubble.

The broke down in tears hating BF for putting me through this. One thing that has always been important to me is loyalty and security as I never really have had that in my life and he broke that too. Feel like I never want someone like that back in my life.

Night peeps

Yes but I quite enjoy hearing them if I am completely honest. I was feeling quite strong aswell. Do you think he is trying to break the PLan B? In your experience is this a good sign?

Thanks for coming back and posting on my thread Melody.

Sorry guys i am really trying to go Plan B DARK. Its having the right support around me to do this.

He is contacting me indirectly through every avenue - am i imagining things or is this his way of keeping me on the farm as Melody once said?

For the first time ever nearly abandoned Plan B tonight and text him direct

Is there another person who can be your IM? A person who RESPECTS YOUR WISHES and would protect you from this nonsense? The job is really very simple. All the IM has to do is screen out insignificant communication and pass on pertinent messages in her own words. I think you need to cut your family out of this because clearly, THEY DON'T GET IT!

Do you have a friend, male or female, who has some balls?

It is a very bad sign when you are not taking this as seriously as you should. It is critically important that you put aside your emotions and follow the advice.

The advice is:

1. find a suitable IM ASAP [you can give her my email address and i will help her/him]

2. send the Plan B letter

3. shut down ALL avenues of contact

4. get legal protection

I want to emphasize that it is your job to make sure he doesn't get through. If your family gives you a message from him, cut them off. Tell them they are to never do that. The same with your son.

Hi Melody Lane

Yes I have a BFF who would be great and has also offered to do it.

She will follow all the instructions.

Will get her to take over.

This whole thing is awful and if he offered to come back now as he was before I would probably say yes

OK thank you. I guess I am still worried about upsetting BF and trying to keep the peace.

This was one of my biggest problems when I was separated from my husband. I was so passionate about it that I even considered starting an "intermediary business" just so I could help others in this same situation.

Well, I would decide now if you are just going to take him back unconditionally. If so, there is no need to go forward.

It really can be difficult to find a good person! But when you find the right person, everything goes so smoothly.

No I am not taking him back unconditionally. Terrible dreams last night living with him but being split up - horrendous. Yesterday took me right back to where we started on D Day.

I think the honest truth is he has no intention of breaking Plan B. That he has accepted that its over and moving on and I am sat here wallowing waiting for something to happen.

I am devastated.

OK I am back in the room! I think I am suffering with PMT which is making 'my senses' go a little off track!

I think BF attempts at contact different ways have worked and got to me....

Ok here is the action plan

1. My BFF has agreed to act as IM so yes that would be great Melody if she can converse with you, I will also send the list / guidance for IMs

2. Plan B letter written will give to him on Sunday at handover

3. Shut down all avenues of contact

4. Arrange to see lawyer next week.

ADDED ONE 5 - long term kids visit schedule minimising contact.

Back in control.

re the kids visit schedule how long should I do it for?

Hey,

I don't know if this would be helpful to you, but I found this:

https://www.ourfamilywizard.com/blog/parenting-intermediary

It's supposed to let parents schedule their time with kids in a hands off way.

That is what all this contact does. Plan B protects you from that.

Good girl! How will you give him the letter so there is no direct contact?

Does your IM understand that the job is only to be a spam filter? Some IM's get confused about their roles and try to play mediator like your sister did. **EDIT**. Please let me know when you have read this so I can remove it.

Hi Melody

I will give DS the letter on Sunday when I drop him off at football, DS can give to BF.

Thank you for sending me your email - got it! So kind of you to offer to help, I need to dig out the IM post. Will send to my 'new improved IM"!!!

Finding it hard to come off football group whatsapp messages. BF is posting at least 2 x daily. Will do it tonight. Another football mum has agreed to send me fixtures information, so no need for me to be on it.

Child visit schedule.

Every Tuesday night - pick up from school drop off at home
Every other weekend - pick up from school on Friday night, drop off at Mothers midday Sunday (No contact)

Still some issues

1. training Weds - think I will need to take him now, previous BF use to pick up and drop but this way I can drop son at training and sit in the cafe and wait (no contact)
2. football on the weekends that I have the children. This is the biggest one not going to watch my son play football. Football is a nightmare as every weekend he will be involved.

This is the next biggest hurdle for me when the kids go off on a Friday and i don't see them until Sunday. My worst nightmare come true. At most I have gone away for one weekend per year.

Thanks all, CoolB

Can't you just delete the app? That takes 2 seconds.


Why would you need to take him now? Sitting in the car watching your husband coach is a breach of Plan B. Find another way!! Don;'t set yourself up this way. Do it right from the start and you won't have to go back and make corrections.

Hi Peeps

I have deleted the whatsapp.

Also agreed with football Mum to drop son at hers to take to training and then BF will have to drop DS at home. It will be one contact per week he comes to the house this way.

The kids facetimed him last night from home, one of his requests via the IM. I went to the other room but had to come in and heard him saying i am going back to the temporary house tonight, I am staying in on my own cooking dinner. The DD told him we were off to the pub which is our local, and was one of BF favourite things to do on a Friday with the family. Hope that annoyed him!

DS had football this morning so arranged to meet friend nearby so she could take him. BF asked my friend where she had met me before and where she was meeting me after. Hmm.

Apart from that have been enjoying the rest of the weekend, it has been gorgeous sunshine today here in the UK so the kids and I met up with friends and hung out in the fresh air which does wonders for the soul.

I have so many friends and family around me that care and are here for me, that are continually checking in to see how I am. I am a very lucky girl!!

So blocked loads of holes, now to send the letter!

I'm glad to hear you're having a positive weekend, Coolbeginnings.

Thank you AHersheyKiss! Thank you also for your link you sent me earlier - it really helped! I hope you are having a great weekend too

Hi All

So this weekend has gone well.

Only downside was DS this morning got really upset. His friend came over yesterday and asked where is your Daddy, DS said he told him not here at the moment. DS was really upset and said he didnt want to tell anyone about our family business. He then asked me why cant we be a normal family? He then said that BF had said that we argue all the time. The DS said I am sorry that Daddy doesnt want to be with you Mummy. DS hugged me and cried. Its heartbreaking. I told him that I was upset with what happened with the OW. It is so difficult to know what to say to them now as time goes by. DD also had a dream that her Daddy died last night. I know the OW was a single mum and I bet she has convinced BF that the children will be fine and get use to the situation and be better off.

I may have broken Plan B a little?! I went to watch DS at football this morning he was playing an important match and i have missed going so mch - so this was the first time I set eyes on BF for 3 weeks since Plan B started. He was over the other side of the pitch as he is coach and it went fine. I did notice he tried to get eye contact a few times. I also noticed that everytime DS saved a goal BF looked at me. I watched from the side with DD, and left 5 minutes before the end. I did make sure I was looking good, laughing and mixing with the other parents.

I felt fine seeing him. I did look at him and could not imagine giving him the letter. I think he will laugh straight in my face if he reads it.

I am doing really well though, I am chuffed. I slept well last night and handled the football well. I spent the day having a spring clean and getting organised after working and looking after the children all week. I even sat down and watched 'Gone with the Wind'! I cooked myself a healthy dinner and had a glass of wine. I haven't done anything like that for ages.

I have also booked a girls weekend to Spain for June, normally when I was with BF i wouldn't do stuff like that. I need to think what I will do with the children, there is a week school holiday coming up. BF will want to have a couple of nights with them too . So will have to think of something fun to do!

What happens with the BF anger now he is on his own? He was always so angry with my at the slightest things, I was literally walking on egg shells. What happens to all that anger now?

My darling DS. They had a great day with Daddy today, then when I was putting DS to bed he started to get upset Mummy i dont want to say what Daddy said because it might upset you. Daddy said the he doesn't want to come home. I hugged him and said I am ok DS dont worry its going to be ok. He said I keep asking Daddy questions and he keeps walking out of the room and changes the subject. DS also said that Daddy told him he felt really sad yesterday. I am really struggling with DS his heart is breaking. I can so understand why I stayed as long as I did to avoid this situation. If it wasn't for the affair I would have carried on. DS also said that Daddy said we argued all the time and that is not a good environment for the children to grow up in.

It is obvious that BF has no intentions of coming back. That I am completely wasting my time and should just move on

Has the plan B letter been delivered?

I know how much that hurts, coolbeginnings. You must be gutted.

We're rooting for you though. Let us know when you send that letter.

Hi there - given my letter to a friend to give to B, she works in his office. He should get it in the next couple of days. eughhhh

Its embarassing

Why am I in such pain for someone who treated me so poorly?

CB, when you say you are wasting you time, what do you mean? Wasting your time doing what? I get the feeling that you think Plan B is a tool to get them back. It is not. The only purpose of Plan B is to protect you emotionally and physically. Sure, there is a slim possibility it may motivate the WS to change his behavior but that is a very long stretch here. My suggestion would be to plan to move on.

Good job for sending the letter out! I know that must have been hard.

As far as why you are in pain for someone who treated you so poorly, I think that's a natural response for many of us.

***EDIT***

When my terrier was walking with me on Sunday she suddenly decided she was not walking one more step. I tried explaining to her that she was too heavy to carry. She gave me a look that said 'not my problem, you work it out'. She was so right. You need to embrace your inner terrier.

BF's anger is his problem. You didn't create it and you cannot make it go away. But he can if he wants to. I got a taxi by the way :-)

What a difference a day makes! I had a great nights sleep last night and it has made me feel so much better. It seems when I have a decent nights sleep the days go by so much better.

I had a calm lovely morning with the kids. The sun was shining through the house. The kids seem so much better and calmer. It is nice not to be around someone who is so cold, distant and moody with you. There would be no 'have a good day at work darling', just seeing to himself before we all leave. I am starting to feel that I would be just ok without him and could never go back to that environment. DS gave me a cuddle in bed and hugged me and said I wish Daddy was here I miss him, I also said I miss him too. I kissed the kids this morning and hugged them tight, they are at Daddys tonight and i will next see them tomorrow after school.

I remember looking at BF once at home, and realising even before I spoke to DR Harley that the only way this would be resolved would be a separation. I just knew but I remember thinking if you do CoolB HAVE FAITH, in what you are doing, he absolutely loves you. I think he has gotten a little lost and does not how to deal.

Sometimes I look back and see where it all started to go wrong. It was definetly after I had the 2nd baby and I guess BF checked out. I am so annoyed that I did not get him more attention. I looked back at some of our emails to each other, we were in constant contact daily for 9 years, exchanging voice messages, texts emails daily. You can see the change in the emails but when things were good, they were so good, we were so happy on top of the world!

I think BF gets the Plan B letter tomorrow.

I am embracing my inner terrier !!!!

He has got the letter. I am shaking.

Well done. No matter what the eventual outcome, this was the only way.

I know that must be nerve wracking

Thanks guys 😊

I have been putting up some family pictures in the home mainly of me and the children. I really want to put up some lovely pics of me and BF of various events we have been to but that would be weird. I should have done this before

Sometimes I think a lot of his treatment has been a call for my attention! I should have put more pics up of us 2.

I still get that lurching horrible feeling, is this actually happening? Oh yes it is. I woke up in the middle of the night thinking BF was here then remembered oh no he is not we have split up.

Don't guilt trip yourself like that. No, it wasn't a call for your attention. If he wanted to be with you he would have fought for you at the time. If he was treating you badly, that's a sign he didn't really want to be with you.

I know that sick feeling I know it's gut wrenching. You can get through this.

It wasn't a call for your attention. He didn't want your attention.

OUCH

It's harsh, but I think you attributing child-like behaviors to him in order to justify caring for him. He is not a toddler, lashing out for attention. He doesn't need your care. He's a grown man that should have treated you better.

You're doing a great job by treating him like an adult by walking away from abuse.

I am not trying to be harsh, but truthful. If he needed attention he wouldn't have been doing things to push you away. It seems like you are trying to find ways to pity him when it is not warranted. Sorry if that was too harsh.

I also think looking at the pictures is triggering you in Plan B. Many BS will put the pictures away to help them heal and not to be triggered. You need to be dark, dark, dark in Plan B. That is the best way to heal.

It was so confusing though. He was doing things to show he wanted me and then doing things to show he didn't. Things he did to show he wanted me;

wanting lots of SF
buying expensive gifts
bringing me home cakes & coffee
talking about the 2 of us having days out
not wanting me to talk to other men/being jealous
demanding my attention, and doing things together

I am not even sure that my love bank is still open to him anymore. I am literally so upset the way he has treated me. I guess he knew earlier than me that things weren't working and he checked out, it has just taken me longer. I just feel so rejected and stupid for not dealing with it. I feel pity for myself.

I found out from the kids that when he spent the day with them on Sunday he was completely hungover. He had sent messages to my sister the week before complaining about not seeing the children for 5 days and then when he does they spend the day in doors playing computer games feeling rubbish!! He took them to the chinese next door. I had visions of him taking them somewhere nice and then a lovely home cooked dinner. Can't believe that. He will be drowning his sorrows in drink.

It is so easy to fall into a pit of dispair, and to say I am suffering I can't cope, put me into a mental hospital and you have the children/the house/ the lot. I WONT let that happen.

Things I am going to do this week;

Have my new hairstyle done - I am having extensions done to glam myself up a bit
Get a new outfit for Friday night
Get a manicure
Book a night away with kids somewhere fun for school hols in a couple of weeks
Book my tennis lesson
Enter for a run
Stop talking about BF
Stop looking at old emails/letters/listening to voice messages
Stop trying to work out what I did wrong

I want to feel good again and I want to get my glow back. I am going to see Docs on Friday as a follow up appointment.

Have a great day all of you.

Seems to me he was investing money in gifts to get SF, but not investing time to build the relationship.

Check the image you have made of BF to his actions. Adjust the image if his actions don't confirm the image.

So strange how emotions can swing but the way I am feeling at the moment - is that I must be mad to ever go back to that???? The way he has treated me has been awful and that was even before the affair started.

Starting to imagine meeting someone new who would NEVER treat me this way - surely there are some men out there in the world who wouldn't do this?

He is so full of himself to think that he is doing some sort of favour by being with me ?!?!?! He would literally have to come crawling back.

I do not know how these women forgive men who have a full blown affair moving in with AW.

I cannot imagine sitting opposite by BF thinking anything but bad thoughts about him.

Run girl RUN

IMO what you said wasn't harsh, it's the fact of it that's hard to swallow.

Thanks Hershey. I think it's real important to accept the truth in these situations. Change is hard and it is easy to give into the temptation of rewriting history as an excuse overcome temporary pain.

I so agree with this.

I have cried all morning - haven't stopped. Just realising from what you are all saying and his actions how he didn't want the relationship. He was just there for the children.

He sent a message to the new IM this morning - saying that he has heard he needs to contact her now. So i guess thats that then. Cant believe how he didn't really love me at all and has been stringing me along. I loved him so much, and I cant believe he is not going to be a part of my life.

I am so sorry you are hurting, CB. I promise you it will get better. I want to remind you of how unhappy you have been for a very long time. But this will get better and you now have a chance to have a happy, fulfilled life.

Thanks Melody

Well Mum came over to the rescue and sat with me for the afternoon and I feel 100% better. She gave me a few face slaps 😂 and told me I hope you never get back with him again.

So I need to confess that I broke Plan B which contributed to melt down. I took over from my IM last week and we have been exchanging messages all this week about the children. Whoops. His messages started off nice then took an angry tone.

So I have gone into Plan B DARK. I have removed myself from the football WhatsApp group and the family WhatsApp group. So IM just told me that BF has messaged about that and wants to know now I have left the group how am I going to get the messages? He also asked for my IM to include his sister in all the messages.

Feeling strong again and feeling free. My goodness this is such a roller coaster of emotions is this normal??

Stay dark. And if he wants his sister to get all the messages, he is free to forward communications to her. Your IM is not his servant.

My brother in law doesn't use whatsapp, his children go to sports without him getting all those group messages. If there's info you need to know, it is very likely someone will inform you.

If you will stick to an airtight Plan B you will start feeling like a million bucks. The roller coaster will end!

And what was your answer about including your sister in communications with the IM. The answer should have been NO! He doesn't get a vote. Any communications should come through your IM and it should be screened out to only include pertinent info about kids, finances IN HER WORDS.

Have you seen an attorney yet to get a custody and financial agreement in place?

Agree. You don't need Whatsapp. You have an IM!

I slept for 10 hours last night must have needed that good cry yesterday!

BF now set up a WhatsApp group with my IM and his sister and my IM has responded!!! Ahhh. He is so pushy it’s untrue. I think my IM thinks that she would keep the peace that way. Why is it so hard and why does he keep setting up WhatsApp groups copying in everyone?!?!

Anyway my IM said she was sorry and is coming over in the morning and we will sort it all out block him off her WhatsApp and just send text messages to him direct. Why does he keep doing this? I had to block him from my mums WhatsApp yesterday as he kept setting groups up with her in.

Kids FaceTimed BF last night. He was in London Working this is where OW was from. Usually he stays up on a Thursday night which I assume is when he has been taking her out. He made it very clear in a loud voice that he wasn’t staying up there and was getting the 7pm train home. Yeah right as if I believe that one.

I had an amazing day today. I went for a run with my son who was on his bike, the sun and fresh air felt so good. Going out with friends tonight and tomorrow. I just had my hair done and it looks lush!!!!

Told a very good friend/neighbour what has happened today. She was so lovely about it. She said my husband text him a couple of weeks ago and never heard back that will be why. She said it sounds like he is having a mid life crisis...!

Tell her to delete the app. That is just ridiculous. This is completely unnecessary.



This is another breech of Plan B. Your kids don't need to facetime with him. They can take his calls in their room where you don't have to listen. EASY FIX.


There is no such thing as mid life crisis.

I am glad you are feeling better, but it is very important that you close these Plan B gaps! Plan B means you see and hear nothing from him!

He is driving me crazy with his WhatsApp issues!! Will sort in the morning when I see IM. Will get her to block him and only send messages direct.

So today DS was off sick and IM let BF know. Message back via IM was do I want BF to pick up DD if that would help as he has governors meeting at the school. I asked her to respond no thank you.

Then I get to the school and his car was parked out the front where I normally park so I went and parked round the back entrance and walked through the back gate. Then when I was coming out the exact time I normally leave I saw BF drive past the front. What is going on?

Anyway I am off out for dinner with the girls tonight! Off to get ready and glam myself up! First night out in 4 weeks!

Thank you Melody

He is a very pushy man and use to getting his way! People are afraid to stand up to him in case it sets him off. He is very persistent in his comms.

How is he even contacting you if you have shut down all avenues of contact? He should not have the ability to reach you.



Have fun!!

Ok, but they all need to toughen up.

You can change your whatsapp settings that you only can be added to a whatsapp group if you give permission. Easy fix. Do it now for your own account and tell your IM and mother to do the same.

Open WhatsApp on your phone, and go to Settings > Accounts > Privacy.

Tap on Groups, and select the option that suits you best. The first one will prompt the user adding you to first send an invitation that you can approve: – Nobody (this prevents anyone from adding you to a group without an invitation)

Adding you, your mom or your IM to groups is not a sign of care, it is a sign of control. Don't confuse the two. Plug the holes, you like the breaches to much.

Yes I know your so right. Plug the holes.

Just went out for dinner with gf tonight. He has been doing some building work for another gf and her partner. He messaged my other gf in the week mentioning about something not been quite right.

Every where I turn there is HIM.

I did like the breaches but not anymore. Go away leave me alone and let me heal please. In private.

Now getting really annoyed.

Go out with GF tonight oh BF has been messaging Abbie (he is doing work for her and her partner on their house), then he made some sceptic comment to Abbie about you and he could do with a chat. Abbie happens to be very attractive but happy with her partner.

Go to Yoga on tuesday and friend Shelley said oh havent seen you for ages, but I heard from your BF last week, he emailed me to tell me all about his boxing ect?!!? Shelley also happens to be very happily married.

I am fuming about this. I was NEVER allowed to have any male friends let alone talk to a guy and here he is messaging my attached friends. WHY???? Its so embarrassing and hurtful.

Leave me alone haven't you caused me enough pain?

I know thats its control. Its like I am running the show here - this is how its going to be run thank you.

He has never really shown any care.

Embrace your inner plumber.

The moment one of your friends mentions bf, interrupt her and explain he cheated on you and you need to be protected from this man as long as he doesn't change. A real friend will support you.

Prepare a simple summary of the situation and your plan (bf cheated and was having angry outbursts, until he changes his behaviour, I will avoid any contact, so can we please change the subject before it takes me back to the horrible situation I was in?)
Next time a friend mentions bf contacting her, ask her support and to protect you from breach of NC.

Oh dear.

So my best friend who is my IM has just called to tell me that she really doesn't want to do the role of IM. She has only done it for 2 days. That she has been suffering from some strong anxiety issues and that this making it worse. I think she didn't expect it to be so full on. So back to the drawing board.

I had such a good day yesterday - you guys are right you crave a DARK Plan B as you feel better.

I hate this, I really really hate this and just want it to be over. I think being with him was better than this.

It is a gorgeous sunny afternoon today, and I have been playing with my children in the garden and now they have gone to their Dads

I can't see me being able to move on at all. I am not crying but just thoroughly fed up.

ugh...Do you have a friend, male or female, that is stable and strong willed? The job of IM is really not that hard at all when you do it right.

I dont think its hard at all. I need to have a think! He is very full on and I guess people think its a few messages a week not a few messages a day.

If the visitation schedule is solid, and the IM firm, it will only be a few messages a week (at most). The IM doesn't need to respond to every whim. Just mute the whatsapp and check every afternoon at 17.

BF needs to be properly trained

BF is not a trainable character 😂. I mean that. He is a formidable force that most people are terrified of. Everyone is worried about upsetting him. When ofcourse anything you do will upset him.

Considering doing it myself. Really don’t want to.

I am racking my brains but no one really wants to do it because of the kind of character he is.

But they don't have to reply to those messages or do anything with them. All they have to say is: "thank you for your message." And only pass on absolutely PERTINENT MESSAGES about visitation and finances. It is not a hard job at all.

You just need someone who has some spine and is not easily rattled. AND that person has to be willing to respct your wishes and not interfere with your Plan B.

That is not Plan B. Why cave only because he is a bully? Rewarding a bully only emboldens him, at your expense!


Your sister can't do the job?

I really don’t want to have to ask my sister again, she is very firm and has balls but also a drama queen and can’t cope with the gossip mongering that comes with it telling everyone who she meets.

Shame I can’t ask my brother who is in the police! Different time zone though in Australia!

Different time zone will force bf to take care of his responsibilities. No need to contact several times a day if the schedule is solid and nothing urgent happens.

No babysitter is not urgent (his problem to solve), working late when he has to pick up children is also not urgent (his problem to solve). He can plan ahead according to the schedule. Your IM doesn't have to respond immediately to every fart bf sends her (or him, if your brother does it).

Hi All

My brother has agreed to be the 3rd IM for me! Brilliant. I give it a week

I had a really good but strange day yesterday.

BF best friend is managing the various building projects on the house. He came over yesterday and offered to steam clean the pool area for me. He stayed for ages asking me lots of questions, but I kept my answers very brief. He asked if I was coping and I said I am doing great thank you. I am not sure if he was snooping or genuinely concerned. Anyway, i am definetly getting the vibe that BF best friend has the hots for me?? I am not sure but something does not feel right?

Then, my best friend came over yesterday to see me. I can honestly say it was the best tonic EVER. We got glammed up and decided to go out for dinner then dancing. We had such fun. I got approached by so many guys coming over to chat or asking to buy me a drink. I must have had a glow on or something I do not know whats going on I certainly wasn't looking at guys or flirting?! It was so bizarre. Anyway this really really handsome guy started chatting to me and then asked me out on a date but I said no thanks. ARGHHHH, i really wanted to say yes! How bad is that?! He was really softly spoken, polite and so handsome. Then I had a dream that I fell in love with a really quiet man and we were going everywhere and it was amazing.

Its really opened my eyes up to my relationship even more. I just keep thinking how awful BF treated me. I have never really told anyone how awful it was because when you are in the situation you don't realise how bad it is. I read out an old email that BF had sent me about a year ago which was having a go at me about various stuff, and after I read it my best friend started to cry and said CoolB why did you never say anything? WOW. that was a moment. It seemed nothing to me as thats how he was with me. The email was about how i went out too many nights out, how I had hated him for 7 years, how he felt that I owned the house and took over, that I dressed too sexy for work, too much gym and going on corporate lunches with male colleagues. I hardly ever saw my friends, maybe one girls night every 6 weeks or something???

I also put a really great photo of me and my friend out in a bar on instagram stories and he was the first to check it, I thought good. I guess that was a breach of Plan B?!

Anyway I definetly have had an ego boost!!!

Is he taking it seriously? There is no reason it can't last forever if your brother will simply follow the rules. Does he understand his role fully? Did your brother contact your BF and tell him he is the new IM?

CB, I have been an IM many times with the most persistent, overbearing waywards and it is the easiest job in the world if you do it right. All that is necessary is to say "thank you for your message." If the message contains PERTINENT INFORMATION about child visitation or finances it is passed onto you in his words. If not, nothing happens. And you should never send him a message. If you have told your BF no contact, then you should not be in contact.

I thought you closed all these holes?

Thank you Melody

So today BF drops kids off at end of drive, then he forgets DD blanket so he comes back 1 hour later, beeps horn in drive, I got daughter to go out.

Then he sends me a text message asking if I got the blanket which I ignored, then he sent another one saying he is worried that it might blow away please respond and let me know. I ignored both.

BF does not like Plan B.

BF also heard through the children that I had a babysitter Friday and can she please let me know that if I ever need a sitter then he will help. Er no thanks it’s my night with the kids.

Everyday there is something. Want to shout at him, you wanted it like this not me!!!!! It’s awful for me, but for him he hardly gets to see the children, loses his home and has to face people with the shame of his affair.

ahhh - not blocked him on instagram - just feels so weird blocking him right out of my life.

How did he text you? How important is that blanket?

You are not in plan B, but you probably know that.

Yup this ^^^^

OMG this is so hard - I have not initiated any contact with him for 4 weeks. OK so next steps

block him on all social media
block his number

I have already come off all the whatsapp groups...

Not really important - he could have waited and given it to the kids when he saw them overnight Tuesday.

i cant get away with anything on this site!

We know that if you follow the Plan you will start to heal and feel sooooo much better.

From your experience is there any sign that he is struggling?!

To be it feels like he has tried to break Plan B many times?

Missing him / our family

YOU are breaking Plan B!! Plan B means no contact,but you have left the door wide open. You have contact with him every day! CB, Plan B means shutting the door. He should not be able to reach you if you have gone dark.

OK

I have unfriended him on facebook.

i have unfollowed on instagram.

I have already come off the whatsapp groups.

Anything else?!

Good girl! Is he still able to text you? What other ways can he contact you?

Thank you Melody

It was hard coming off his social media it all feels so final.

The only other way is via text (he text me 2 times yesterday) which I ignored. I am worried though that if I block him he might need to contact me in an emergency re the kids?

I can’t think of any other ways??

What emergencies do you expect? Just for reference, how many emergencies did you encounter last year?

If he has an emergency, he needs to call the POLICE or an ambulance. If he wants to get a message to you, it has to be through your IM. Plan B means NO contact, not limited, in order to even be effective. You need to close ALL avenues of contact. I am so surprised you still have all these open avenues.

How do you expect him to take this seriously if you don't? It seems like you are not serious and are using this half baked "Plan B" to give him the cold shoulder. That is the worst possible plan. Dr Harley calls this type of PLAN C, which is the worst possible plan.

Did you deliver the Plan B letter?

Please read BS..... Plan C is not a Plan

Hi BrainHurts

Yes I have sent him the letter.

Thanks for sending me this thread on Plan C.

I guess I have left doors open as I am worried about how he feels - will it make him less likely to contact me again ect.... Also I remember when my sister and brother in law separated, they stayed on friendly terms and that was how the rebuilt the marriage. It all feels so final.

The only contact left is my mobile number.....i will block that too

I am putting so much trust in this plan. I know that if I had stayed friendly he definetly would have come back.

My son cried again tonight -

Daddy is sad, why won't you let him home?
I said Daddy doesn't want to come home DS.
He does I can tell he does. He is so sad, he tells us he is sad when we are not there, and he is not the same with us at the temporary house as he was when he was at home. He was so much happier.
What if he never comes back?

Do you want him to come back without changing a thing?

Why are you in Plan B?

Hi Goody2shoes

No I dont, but I cannot just accept that its over if I am honest. Which is silly because I am starting to feel so much better.

I could never go back to how it was, just sometimes I think, was it really that bad? I feel guilty cause DS gets upset. He just woke up and had a little nightmare, Mummy I had a bad dream about you and Daddy.

Because I couldn't live with BF any longer with how he treated me. I feel a million times better now. I just can't accept its over and worried about that. I am held by fear. Holding out for some sort of miracle. I am doing ok at the moment, but how am I going to handle the first time he takes the kids on holiday, or how do we handle birthdays and Christmas? I am just so sad, but I know I cannot change him and know its not a good future unless things do change.

That said I am loving the protection of Plan B. The nightmares have already stopped. That feeling being around someone when they are just messing you around is so painful.

If you want to reconcile like you stated in your plan B letter, you might want to hold back with the going out and flirting. You seem to light up when you get attention from other men (also attention from BF friend who does the home improvement doesn't leave you untouched).

If reconciliation is your plan, don't flirt or get emotionally close to other men. Easiest way to fall for another is when you are a dry veggie in the dessert. Any drop of water will do. First get your life in order. When the dust settles (give it 2 years) and reconciliation has not been the result, decide what kind of partner you want.

If you like plan B now, just wait until you are really in it. Hope your brother has the clear head to be a good firewall.

I literally read him all the rules, and made him agree to them before he agreed to doing the role. I think he will be good. He sent an email to BF yesterday to confirm he will be acting as IM. I have heard nothing back today, and he knows unless there is any pertinent info to send then I dont need to hear anything.

Feeling positive.

Thanks for posting Goody2Shoes

I just don't know if I can do it anymore . This is a man who never wanted to marry me, who told me that he has not been happy with me since DD was born (6 years), who has been meeting up with some woman behind my back, has anger issues , doesnt want to go out and do things with me and is only nice to me when he is drinking. The to top it all off when I asked him to leave after finding out about this affair, tells me he was planning to move out anyway because I would remind him of his affair for the next 20 years and things 'haven't been right anyway'. I mean how much more can I take?

I just want move on now. Going out at the weekend did remind me that there are other men out there. I mean I am just wasting time here, not that I want another relationship far from it, but seriously don't I deserve better?

And seriously, like he has been taking another woman out for lunches/dinners and whatever else whilst I have been sat at home, looking after the house/kids...Him knowing full well that I REALLY wanted him to take me out as I mentioned it often?

So what would he have to say if another man took me out...I mean really?!

The advice to stay away from other men is about you not about him. We don't care what he thinks. If you start seeing other men, you will quickly find yourself in a relationship that will make BF look like the Angel Gabriel. You are not emotionally ready to make good decisions at this time.

Besides, if a miracle happens and BF dries out, successfully completes an anger management programme and is ready to step up and do things properly to win your heart, you owe it to your children to give it a try. Remember, they are watching you and learning from you.

First get your life on track. Then look for a decent man. It is not only your life, but also your children's lives that are touched by your relationships. Get your life in order and your standards up before you possibly stir up the lives of your children.

And what if he does change and has become a suitable candidate for marriage, and you are involved with someone new. Don't make this messier than you can handle.

Just curious.. What is the longest period you were single? Long enough to know what/who you really want? Or did you roll into the next relationship when someone seemingly suitable paid attention? Find out what you want this time.

I remember you telling me Living_Well about protecting my love bank and getting out last summer. I know what you mean now, I couldn't understand at the time because I felt so in love with him. Its just now I am really starting to think more calmly, I am sleeping well and I am functioning quite well without him. I am really coming to my senses. Its making me look at the situation differently. Its like I am really losing respect for him. How could I fall in love with someone who is capable of such actions? I am older and wiser and want better for my children.

I am not sure what it would take for me to have him back? After all the cold shoulder treatment of doing the exact opposite of whatever I said I wanted is just cruel. Its weird its not like he even wanted out, its just he enjoyed punishing me, maybe for rejecting him all those years ago when I had the young babies and rejected him in some sort of way. I am not sure I have any space in my heart for someone who could do that.

I have done so much reading here of people like Mimi, Queenie and Mortarman and oh its hard to stop reading. This place is phenomenal. Some of the stories and things that people have gone through. One thing that always happen is that when the WS sees that the BS is moving on perhaps dating or even thinking they are dating is they come running back.

I have eaten a whole pot of olives and glass of red wine whilst writing this! Kids are at BF house tonight, so having a quiet evening of bath, fire on, Netflix and early bed zzzzzzzz.

Just want to say thank you all for being here the last few weeks. I am not sure how I got through it, but this place saw me through some really dark days and I am hoping this sense of normality stays with me for a little while.

I am seriously not interested in getting into a relationship with ANYONE I honestly could not think of anything worse. I was more thinking of just having some harmless fun going out and dating and stuff on the nights the children are at BFs. However, practically I do not need that complication in my life right now.

You have picked up on the fact that yes I am a little weak willed and roll into relationships based on past relationship hurt and times pressures such as biological clocks ect!! However I did truly fall in love with BF and had been single for a year before I met him. I feel no pressure now and if things dont work out with BF i really just want to enjoy this time time being single and sifting through a few suitors. When the time is ready ofcourse.

I just have felt with all this heartache I want to go out and have a little fun. I am fed up of moping. You have one life and all that.....

Thanks again, Goody2shoes. Are you from the UK by the way? Sometimes you post early?

Thank you, Cool B.

I just do not know how I could ever speak to him again calmly?

How dare you do this to our son? You have not only cheated on me you have cheated on him? He has has nightmares and breakdowns over this how dare you. You can go running to your business partner and your sister who are only interested in keeping you sweet and telling you what you want to hear so they can take your money!! Your children and I loved you for you nothing else. How dare you treat your family like this you POS?

You still carry on contacting all your female friends when I was not even allowed to talk to a man in your presence. Jog on. See you later. Arriverderci.

I will find the children a REAL father one day who will care for them and love them.

This is what I will say to him if he ever dares to talk to me.

Yes but you do not want the old BF back!

It is going to take a year, maybe more, for him to see that he has to actually dig in and make changes to himself. He might never get there but you need to give it a chance.


That's more like it!


We have all been there. It gets better from here, it really does.

I am under no time pressures. I have my gorgeous children and thats all that matters is being a good mum to them. I think I am doing a pretty good job.

I am worried about my DS he is really struggling with the separation. He came home from football practise - saying I hate Daddy rand he was really upset. He said I am never living with Daddy!! I asked what the argument was about and he wouldn't tell me. We hugged for about 15 minutes. He is such a dear boy. I am worried why my son wont tell me. I didnt bug him i just let him have a cuddle.

Thank you Living_Well

Strange feelings tonight - very subdued. Must be something about Thursdays.

Actually feeling bad for BF. He saw his children Tuesday night, last night he sees his son for an hour who tells him he hates him and doesn't want to live with him. He then goes home to an empty house and doesn't see his kids again til Saturday only for the day. I feel like he has abandoned all of us aswell

What is going on???

Its funny its like I can read my BF like a book. Just as i put the above post this happened.....

He just text the old IM that he was feeling sad not to facetime the kids tonight and that he guesses he will see them Sat, but football probably cancelled.
That he does not like the time diffference of the new IM being in Australia.

It sounds like he is really struggling right now. He must be in a whole world of pain and I am feeling for him. I couldn't cope.

He did get informed by new IM that he could call the kids anytime in the evening on the home phone.......

So your old IM is still passing unneeded information to you? You need to close this hole and tell her that you don’t want to hear anything about him. Every time there’s a break in your plan B you can see how it sets you back to square one. Can you see that?

Coolbeginnings,

You're also breaking your Plan B by constantly thinking about BF and writing about him. These are also holes in your Plan B that you need to close if you want to heal. Many of us have gone through what you're going through, and we feel for you because of that. When I read your posts, I can feel the stress and anxiety you're having from constantly thinking and talking about BF. If you really want the healing of Plan B, you can't let him occupy your mind like this. You'll be constantly triggered if you do. It's a hard habit to break, I know from experience.

I remember a great suggestion one of the forum vets gave once. If you find your mind wandering back to thoughts about BF, picture a big red stop sign, then think of something else. I've heard that others break a habit by wearing a rubber band around their wrist, and snapping it when they catch themselves thinking about a trigger. Whatever you have to do to train yourself to stop dwelling on BF.

Good luck, and I hope you feel better!

abrrba

Thank abrrba for all those great suggestions - I will try and follow those to focus to start proper healing.

I am staying very dark despite a very overbearing BF. My brother has been an excellent IM and I have only heard from him once all week.

Usual feelings of being low/flat in the morning and gradually improving as day goes on.

Starting to think that BF is an absolute narcissist - read up a bit about that and many of the symptoms were apparent in our relationship. Still having the occasional nightmare about how he treated me.

Thanks again all for helping me get through this. Staying DARK.....

Good job, CB!

Woke up this morning feeling ok for the first time not low and sad! Yippeeee

5 weeks since BF left.....

I so need some sunshine though - and it has not stopped raining in the UK today....lol.

Really making the most of this time with the kids and enjoying them. Been able to give them my attention much more. They almost seem more balanced and happy.

We are off to the cinema today and then afternoon fun at home.

Bring on Spring!

and just the day I wake up feeling so good guess who shows up?

So BF contacted IM to see if he could collect a bike from the house today. I let IM know that was fine as were out most of the day back about 4pm. As soon as the kids and I got back to the house, 10 minutes later BF turns up, but this time instead of parking at the end of the drive, he parked right outside the front door. I hid upstairs in the bedroom so he couldnt see me. Then he was outside pacing around looking through the window for about half an hour. He started doing a few chores in the garden and then left. How strange.

sorry guys I started the day off so well I am still ok but...

BF is relentless - nothing of any substance - but is trying to contact me in some indirect way every day.

I came of his instagram account - and now he has set a new account up with our son on it. This time posting a picture of our DS eating my mothers marmalade in our house. Referring to my mother.

Control freaks never give up. He is spending his entire waking hours plotting ways to break your plan B. Can you stop using Instagram?

Thanks Living Well

Why doesn’t he just surrender to the Plan B letter? Agggggggggggh

I am so angry with him. I just can't help it. He is putting us all through this, my DS heart is broken.

BF was so horrible to me, with every fibre of his being. I just don't know what made him turn. I thought we were happy as can be and then about 2 years ago he changed - is that when the mask slipped? I don't know.

18 months ago when I asked him why he hasn't asked to marry me he told me that why would we do that? Do we just pretend we are in love? The question I had always been afraid of asking because I was scared of the answer then I asked it and he said that

1. The confusion of the relationship, of him always wanting me there but also pushing me away.
2. Him telling me that 'things haven't been right since we had DD' - I had 2 children under for 2 for goodness sakes. I looked back over old emails and he was obviously feeling deprived of SF but also sounded very in love?
3. That he was never going to leave - 'we have what we have'
4. Telling me on the first night of the skiing holiday that he 'ffffing despised me' and I cant remember what we actually rowed about ??!
5. How he said if I had 'behaved' i would have had a lot more
6. All the memory bank listing of all the things I had 'done wrong'

I just don't understand any of it. We could have had it all forever. You would think he would be relieved to be away from me? Not trying to break the Plan B. Can someone try and explain this behavior? Did he simply go off me and get bored no challenge? He gave up smoking about that time was it that the withdrawal contributed to such behaviour?

I know from his past history that he has NEVER lived with anyone harmoniously.

I wrote Dr Harley just before I sent the Plan B Letter - he said;

He does what he pleases because there is very little recourse for you when you object. The point of the separation is to put the ball in his court.

i am absolutely rubbish at this.

I should be thinking that I am well out of this relationship and reality is I am sat pining waiting for him to come back, when he is off building his new life without even looking back.

I seem to swing on a pendulum one moment looking forward thinking i have my self respect and I am doing great - to the other side which is looking for sings/crumbs that he still cares. I am mostly on the negative side.

The truth is I am devastated I was not good enough for him.

Also I broke Plan B. I didnt block my number he has sent me 2 messages a day for the last 3 days and I have ignored all of them. Then today i text him to see if he wanted to facetime the kids because I thought he must be suffering and also by texting him would open up a window...RUBBISH.

so sorry i am rubbish at this. I have been with someone for 9 years we were madly in love and then suddenly it all went wrong. He has been so not interested for 1 year even telling another woman that he was mad about her, and I am sat here pining for him. What does that say about me. Absolutely rubbish.

I want this whole thing to be over. I dont have the strength or self esteem to see this through. I miss my family and I HATE having to say bye to my kids every few days when I am use to having them under my roof every night. I want to spend my life with the father of my children, not a single woman missing a piece.

He can't surrender. His entire belief system has been built around overcoming obstacles by brute force. But give it a year. You want to be able to look back and know you did everything you could.

It is a school holiday for the children this week. BF has just picked them up to take them away for 2 nights. DS didn't want to go. I didn't want them to go.

Then I get the children back on Thursday and BF wants to take DS to a rugby match on Sunday, when it is my day with him. I am torn. My son doesnt even play or like rugby but BF is saying it is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I hope he rots in hell for taking my children away from me.

This is hell. I really can’t believe it’s happening to me.

Very important you not to let BF know you care. That means smiling and saying nothing to the children about how much you miss them. I remember my XH telling me he wanted the dog in the divorce. I immediately said 'no problem, when would you like her?'. At that point the request for the dog magically vanished from the divorce papers. BF is doing this to needle you. Don't be needled.

At the same time, hand off the issue of how and when to see his father to DS. Tell DS that you will support whatever decision he makes. That you know it is important he has a relationship with his father but that he should tell his father what he likes and what he does not like. But quietly keep careful records of every visit to his father and everything your son says to you with dates and times.

Great advice thank you Living_Well

I am going to start calling it his 'daily needling attempt'.

OK so had a bad day today, kids going away for 2 nights, yes I know I am a total wimp. Better day tomorrow.

Feeling empowered after doing some soul searching reading. I need to remember WHY I am doing all of this, I am actually quite proud of myself. At the end of the day this will happen

1. He realises how much he loves me / his family and will do what it takes (and not treat me like a pair of comfy old shoes)
2. He won't and we will split for good - which means that at some point i can meet and fall in love with someone else who will love me enough to marry me

I am getting there. Yes I have tried to close many holes in the PLan B and hopefully I am getting there, with a very overbearing BF.

Thanks again for all your support.

Rollercoasters have never been my favourite!!!!

Morning Peeps.

Still here still posting.

Been spending time focusing on me much more and working out who CoolB is. I have all this time now so started to make a little list of what I would like to do...

Expand social circle - I have some amazing friends I would just like to meet some new people who dont know anything about the situation
Join a tennis club - always quite good at it so would like to join something
Do more yoga - i always feel so much better after a yoga session - I have booked a day retreat for next Thursday
Have always wanted to go to Copenhagen so may book a weekend to go there..on my own or is that a bit weird?

I am finding that I am actually quite isolated and although I have some lovely friends around me, I cut a lot of people off when I met BF. So I am almost a bit bored.

Anyway I also get the children back today wooohooo.

Happy Thursday everyone.

Have you closed all your Plan B holes? You have blocked all his ways to contact you? No more social media? No more being around when the kids face time with him?

HI BH - thanks for your post.

Yes all holes plugged. No social media or face time. I have asked he call the home phone to speak to the children so I dont have to hear his voice.

Today BF dropped DD of this morning and then took DS to his football trial at a big local club. When he dropped DS off, instead of dropping him off at the end of the drive as he usually does, this time he caught me as I opened the door and was stood on the doorstep. I said hi and went to walk in the house and he tried to engage me in conversation about DS football trial. I said that sounds great, ok got to go bye, cut it short and walked in the house. BF looked downcast and walked off and said 'See you soon'. For the first time in years it was like I was in control of the situation, not him. It felt good.

That is the first time I have spoken to him or had any eye contact in 5 weeks. I stayed very calm and strong. However, I cannot get over how awful he looked. He has lost a ton of weight and gone grey overnight.

I couldn't help myself and asked DS if Daddy was ok? He said he keeps 'having moments' (this is what DS calls them) 4 or 5 times per day. I said what does he do when the his happens? DS said his chin wobbles and he looks really sad and asks for cuddles and sometimes he even cries.

He is clearly suffering, i am quite shocked. Maybe I am being naive. I thought he would be showing me that he is flourishing and rubbing it all in my face.

Maybe there is a tiny window of hope after all.

This is a marathon not a sprint. See if he actually follows through on the demands you put in your Plan B letter. Actions not words. Everything else is just a pity party.

Oh dear - I really really miss him today. I miss the old BF not the person he turned into.

I don't know where this is going to end up. I am doing so much better than the early days and the longer I am away from him the more I am starting to see his poor treatment of me, no wonder I felt so awful the last year.

Still hiding a bit from life and facing people.

There are the friends I really trust and who have been awesome. However, there is people who I have seen who are just after the gossip and keep asking me for the latest 'update'. Quite embarassing really.

I have two sisters one who has been amazing the other who I have never really got on with. I have always felt with the other sister that she has always liked to see my fail and has always been quite jealous of me. I have kind of cut her off through this process. He had only been gone about 5 days and she started to tell lots of people what happened and I ended up pulling her about it and saying it is for me to tell people not you. I really cant be round disingenious people at the moment - does anyone get that? ONly people who have my really interests at heart.

You certainly find out who your true friends are through this process.

Still that aside I really do miss us being a family and all the fun we had. Praying daily.

Consider the fact that the old and nice boyfriend may have never existed...

Depressed, sad and lonely. Missing our family unit. Still missing BF. Not adjusting to my 'new life' at all.

BF has set up a new instagram account for our son. I took a peak this morning. He is posting pics of our DS in the house, as though he is still living here. I know snooping was a Plan B break. I just couldn't help it.

Can someone tell me if any of these signs good? That he may change or crack under pressure....................:(

Nope, it's same old same old. Once you stop breaking plan B, you will quickly see that this behaviour is just more horse manure.

A decision to change (which will only happen if/when he hits bottom, will look completely different. It will start with a realisation on his part that he has wronged you. The first you will hear of it is when he cannot take the children for a while because he is in rehab.

THIS MADE ME CHUCKLE...but it is so depressing. Now my emotions have calmed down I am starting to realise how badly he treated me in the end. I even looked at old photos and saw that I looked really ill.

I just can never see him coming to that realisation. I think what he is trying to do is break my Plan B so that we can open up communication and then we just pick up where we left off...It is a marathon.

He will probably just end up meeting someone else, much easier to start something new then rebuild the old. I can't even imagine going on a date, I couldnt think of anything worse. It would still feel like I was cheating on BF.

BF told the children he only has 4 months left in his 'temporary house', I said what happens then and DS said he comes home............

Thanks again for your post..

I am so annoyed and fed up with myself.

I just met up with a really close friend today for dinner with the children, who I met through BF. Her husband is supporting BF through this separation and ofcourse she wants to stay neutral through this process. Meeting up with her is a major trigger in this process and was not a good idea. I made it clear to her that I am doing well and getting on with life. Seeing her was just a reminding of my life with him, and I am so annoyed at myself for being so sensitive and soft.

I am so fed up with myself to come from such a bad relationship to now spending my every waking hour looking for signs of clues that he still loves or cares about me. This is what I am actually doing!!! I am looking up youtube videos to watch 'signs that your ex wants you back' and everytime he tries to break PLan B I am secretly pleased because it is showing that he is affected in some way and trying to have some sort of contact Here I am at the age of 44 still searching for crumbs as I believe I have so little self worth. This is how the relationship was for 2 years and continues to be that way.

I have sent him a Plan B letter and he has done NOTHING about it. I think he is clearly happy with the situation and moving on. Yet I am stuck pining for something that never was trying to keep my head above water.

I just want out now, I really really crave the Plan B.

I also have another confession is that he is texting me almost daily something to do with the children. Just things like, can you pack a water bootle, or please put a coat in that kind of thing. On Thursday after I spoke to him at the doorway, later that evening he sent me a picture of DS at the football and I responded.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I need to get the IM to send him a message not to contact me on phone? I even regret sending the Plan B letter as he has done nothing in it.

Why am I so weak? I am intelligent degree educated woman with good job, great friends, lovely family, 2 wonderful children. I would like to consider myself reasonably attractive and here I am sat pining for BF that never really wanted me anyway.

I want to close the door and move on completely.

Do you ever plan to implement Plan B? You have never been in Plan B. You have always been in Plan C, which isn’t a plan.

I am just rubbish at it, I dont think I can do it. I am worried that cutting off contact completely closes the door. Do you think I should contact IM to tell him not to contact me on phone? Thats the only method of contact now.

I am going to book an appointment with the docs, I can feel PMT coming on and not sure I can deal.

DD who is only 6 keeps saying to me that she doesn't want to stay at DD tomorrow night. She has said it about 5 times. She is very clingy with me at the moment and follows me from room to room. I am thinking of emailing IM letting BF know that maybe she shouldn't stay at his tomorrow. Advice please???

Cutting off contact completely will START the clock. Nothing happens until then. Right now he does not even think you are serious.


Yes, tell IM no contact but also block him.


Tell her to explain to her father that she does not want to go. Don't get in the middle of this.

How are you doing with protecting your finances and getting primary custody?

Thank you Living_well - I cannot tell you how much strength I get through your posts.

OK so I have emailed my brother who is acting as IM to tell him no contact through my mobile as per the letter I sent him. Last door closed. I am most scared to do this of all things. I know how BF works and if he wanted to come back he would just do it by opening the lines of communication rather than any grand gesture.

Will tell DD to let Daddy know about overnight stay. DS & DD always seem afraid to tell their father how they feel, they are always worried about upsetting him.

I have an appointment booked with the solicitors for this Friday to discuss finances and custody.

I also need to realise that this process is building up my life too. I should see it as a chance to make my life great with or without him.

We were suppose to be going to the Caribbean 3 weeks in April all booked and paid for, maybe I should go on my own with the kids???

He will have to convince your IM that he has turned himself around. Brother will be far more objective than you so trust him.


Children can cope with the truth, it is lies that damage them. Talk to them both together. Explain that Daddy will not listen to you because he will just think you are doing this to get at him. But that DD can ask DS to advocate for her if she is worried.


You will feel so much better once you have done this. Be sure to tell solicitor he is threatening to move back in 4 months. You may need an order of protection.


Yes indeed


That's a tough one. Of course you should go if you can but what if he shows up? He is just as entitled to be there as you are. Maybe ask the solicitor about this one on Friday.

If you go without him, will you be thinking 'if he would have been here with me...' all the time?

I received another text from BF yesterday;

"is DS ok? I have been horrendously poorly since last night, shivers, sickness ect. Hope he's ok'.

It sounds to me by sending this that he is missing me, and is poorly and wants some sympathy. Who knows?!

I ignored the text and this morning have informed my brother (IM) to tell BF that as stated in the letter i would not like to have any direct contact with him.

I am putting so much trust in this Plan/Marriage Builders. This is almost as hard as giving him the Plan B letter. The way I thought we would resolve things would be keeping some line of communication open as I know thats how he works. This is SCARY.

This man will never agree to the terms of the letter and will just want to slide his way back into my life gently.

I MISS HIM.

Thanks again all.

I AM REALLY WORRIED.

I dont know if a truely dark Plan B is a good thing or not, I have read alot of threads where being dark apparently involves still having short email/phone calls/visual glimpses of each other and they recovered.

HELP

and now block him


Yes and remember how well that worked for you when he did that last year?


Plan B is about protecting what love you still have for BF in the hope that he will decide to meet your terms. If he cannot or will not meet your terms, you will go out into the world knowing that you did everything you could. Your children are seeing that too. But plan B does not work if it leaks. It needs to be completely watertight.

Just heard from IM that BF emailed him last night asking me to pick up DD. She told BF she didn't want to stay at his house and BF contacted IM to get me to pick her up. I didn't get the message until this morning. Feeling really bad about that. Have told IM to tell BF if there is anything like that again to contact my mother.

MY IM is being brilliant filtering stuff through. Although he did mention that BF is concerned about me coming off the football whats app group and having an IM in a different time zone.

Started a period today really early - like 1 week early. Never happens, think it could be the stress of this whole horrendous situation.

I really missed the kids last night.

Just spoke to one my best female friends. She has been in a long marriage with a partner who has IB, affairs you name it. Most recently she has caught some sort of infection.

Thing is she always make out she has the most amazing marriage. Most recently she has given up drink because he told her he had flirted with another man when she was drunk (she didn't).

I have been avoiding her since the break up. I cannot believe I am admitting this but in some way I am jealous she is still in her relationship and I am not.

How pathetic.

Struggling today people. 6 weeks since he left. NO sign of any attempt to make any difference apart from multiple attempts to break NC.

Can you arrange for DS to get in touch with you if there is an emergency like this? Might be easier than going through Mum. Great that DD spoke out by the way.

I am so pleased DD spoke out. Although I imagine when I pick her up today she is not going to be very happy I didn’t come and get her!!

I still feel like I am wallowing and looking for signs!

Is this normal 7 weeks after he left?

I seem to be getting weaker not stronger? I mean I am not in a crying heap every day but I seem to be thinking a lot about reconciliation rather than moving on?!!

Out for dinner today with work friends....will be a nice change.

Your brain has to process the trauma one bit at a time at its own speed. Look at is as a remapping process, just like grieving a death. Pondering reconciliation is part of that process as is thinking about whether you made the right decision.

I remember being told that I would know I was on the road to recovery when I wanted to thank the Fat Slag. That did happen.

LOL - Too funny!!

I had a babysitter booked for a few hours last night and went for dinner with a girl friend at work.

I dropped DS off at football practice and then BF dropped him back home. DS told BF that I had a babysitter and was going out for dinner. Apparently BF got mad and made some comment saying about me probably going out for dinner with another man and DS said he got all jealous so told him he is probably out with one of her girlfriends Dad.

I am also getting a lot of pressure through the kids about not responding to text messages/calls ect...

I was feeling really good about things this morning and very strong and not feeling guilty AT ALL about blocking phone contact. Also at peace that unless he meets the terms of the letter then there is no point as it wont work anyway!

I had a chat with my babysitter when I got home, it was like she had been on a MB course or something and was spouting out exactly what you guys have been saying. That I shouldn't have anything to do with him and that the ball is in court and he knows what he has to do. She was laughing at some of his antics.

Then got these messages through from IM;

1. BF heard that you had babysitter and that DS asked BF why Daddy wasn't looking after them and DS was upset. That BF would like to babysit the kids when I go out.

2. He would like to take both kids to Wembley to watch football on Sunday 5 April and have them overnight the night before.

Can't help but feel upset, we had flights booked for the Caribbean on the 4th April. Also I haven't sat down and done the schedule yet. I am thinking like Living_Well said just agree and don't let him needle me. I would love to respond actually we are off to the Caribbean so can't....LOL.

Also is he saying that everytime I go out that he should have the kids overnight or come to the house????? This is ridiculous because I go out after I have put them to bed and I am with them in the morning when they wake up.

ARRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Maybe it is happening. Maybe he is realising I am serious now and getting annoyed.

Don't roll over and don't let him needle you either. Wait till you have talked to the solicitor tomorrow. At this time you do not know whether the holiday is even possible because you do not know that you can prevent him from showing up. If it is workable, you will calmly sit the children down and let them decide which they would like to do. I'm guessing holiday which means IM will relay 'sorry, not available'.


Tell your IM not to relay silly stuff to you.

Thanks Living Well

In all honesty if I take the kids away for a week he will probably want to do the same! I am not sure I can cope with that right now. At least whilst I am in Plan B it will be short breaks.

I guess I will just have to let this trip go. Anyway his emails in my mind are only in response to him thinking I was out with a man last night. He did the same thing last time I went out.

First day I have spent thinking how much longer do I want to do this waiting for him? I am in the mind that he is too stubborn and too unhappy with the relationship with me to make the effort. Plus he has hurt me/the kids too much.

I am sitting on the fence about him at the moment.

I am really hacked off tonight.

I am sick of packing an overnight bag for my kids. They are away tomorrow night and won’t see them all day Saturday. I am so upset about this. My DD doesn’t even want to go.

I also am ashamed to say I lost it in front of the kids today. I had a real wave of the other woman and how angry that BF has been meeting up with her. I don’t even know how long he was seeing her for. Then DS said Mummy why won’t you answer Daddy’s calls and I let rip telling them how Daddy has been taking another woman out. I apologised to them both later but did say Daddy has really hurt Mummy.

It’s the only time it’s happened

Sorry me again. I am hurting tonight.

Realisation of what a mess it all is. Facing the reality of how desperate I was to have a loving family and husband and how I was living an absolute lie. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

Feeling like I am totally checking out.

2 years of poor treatment, no love or affection or care. Telling me how unhappy he has been. Listening to him and trying everything but getting nowhere. Ending in an affair. With no remorse just justification. Just more actions on his part to get me to capitulate and back down. Thinking I am going out with other men when I still feel like this would be cheating on him and my children. Crying daily and thinking when is the pain going to be over. Dreading the first time he takes my children away from me for a holiday, thinking what did I do to deserve this?

I look around and see no one amongst my peers being treated this way.

Want to pack the rest of his stuff up tell him to come and collect it. Still trying to be the nice guy agreeing to all his requests.

I am having my own pity party tonight. Sorry I just need to wallow.

The fact that he never really loved me at all....

Channel your inner terrier. His problem. He knows what he has to do.

Terrier it is then!

Been to see solicitors.

1. He can’t kick me out of house. He would have to prove I am an unfit mother and get a court order to do that.

2. If BF decided he wanted joint custody that it would be very unlikely that he would get it. As I have been the primary carer it would be in the interests of the children to remain with me most of the time.

3. If the house was sold I would get a 50/50 split as I am a joint owner. This is regardless of how much has been spent since we have been in the house.

Feeling a lot better about things gives me a peace of mind about children and home.

Still worrying like mad about cutting off contact with BS. I think him catching me on the doorstep, sending pictures and then telling me that he was ill are all ways for him to try and communicate with me. Then if he starts any relationship talk I can say ‘are you willing to meet the terms of the letter?’

Just something I picked up from Mimi & Mortarmans thread.

come out for a friends leaving do at work. Really don’t feel it at all and forced myself to go.

Normally Fridays were end of the week family night. They use to be BFs favourite night of the week

Excellent, you get an extra biscuit tonight.


Makes sense, can you remain till the youngest is 18 if you wish to?


Good


If you do not feel he is making progress in meeting your terms, you may prefer to go that route.


Of course you do. Did solicitor say anything about what you might do if he tried to move back in?

Hi Living Well

Forgot to ask solicitor last question. He won’t try and move back in. At least I can’t see that happening.

Happy Friday everyone..!

I really didn’t enjoy going out tonight. Made me miss BF and the kids more. It was a horrible night here in the UK, sat in a restaurant with all my work colleagues mostly men. It just felt weird and odd. Still I went and made the effort and got out.

Can’t ever imagining being together with BF again. Just want to put the memory in a bottle and not let go.

Still will never understand what turned him. He was so in love with me and at some point he turned.

Missing my kids tonight, will miss their cuddles in the morning.

I know that you're reading some other posts here and are confused by whether you should be in contact off and on.

I think that you need to go away from him to the point of not seeing him at all. Never talk to him.

That being said, I wonder what Dr. Harley would say about the posts you're reading versus your situation. Maybe they weren't following Dr. Harley's plan? Or maybe they were, but they had a different situation? Maybe he would even suggest that you follow their lead? Can you ask Dr. Harley for clarification?

Thank you so much for your warm words on my post. They mean so much to me. I'm sorry your weather is crappy out there. Being outside is so much better than being inside.

The best thing you can do, CB, is to institute a dark Plan B and wait this out. Your Plan B is more of a Plan C, and Plan C is a disaster for you. The whole point of Plan B is to gain some peace of mind and to maintain whatever love you have for your wayward partner.

Plug up the holes in your Plan B. Block his messages; that way you won't be triggered by seeing them. You also won't be upset when you don't see a text; you won't be wondering why he hasn't texted you, because the avenues of communication to you are closed. The only way he can communicate is through your IM. Your IM should only pass along specific, relevant information regarding the children and finances. You need to let your children know it hurts you to have them pass along messages from their dad. Tell them to let him know that if he needs to communicate anything to you, it must be through your IM.

If you continue in Plan C, you are going to be nervous wreck. Are you on antidepressants? If not, Dr. Harley often recommends them in the short term, just to help calm your mind while you make decisions and rebuild your life without your partner.

Should your partner want to return to you, he knows what he will have to do. Meanwhile, go dark. Do some nice things for yourself. Try to avoid brooding and hoping. People who have successfully used Plan B for peace for themselves train themselves to avoid even thinking about the wayward partner.

Thanks LWFH

DS asked BF today if you and Mum will be back together by my birthday, BF said I don’t think so son. Then DS asked if we would ever get back together and BF answered I don’t think so son.

OMG.

I guess that’s it then.

I am going to get some anti depressants next week to see me through. It’s only what I have known for a long time.

Being silly and allowed myself to become annoyed by something BF said to DS.

He only was honest in what he said to DS and I should not be angry Or hurt. It probably is the truth. It just takes me back to an anxious feeling I always had in the relationship, which was BFF not being fully committed/ambivalent. This is why I am doing what I doing to get away from that!

I feel a change in me more accepting of the future without him. I have walked around all day on my own happy in my own skin. Dark Plan B is good for me even though scary at first. I know he is very annoyed about me cutting off phone contact. That got mentioned by the children again.

I guess I am struggling with telling DS his mum and Dad are never going to be together again. It is also hard to hear this out loud from DS.

I am better off away from this man the way he is, the distance is good for the children too. We all know that the possibility of change/remorse is near to zero.

He also told the children that he was heartbroken when he was not with them.

There is a parents evening on Tuesday which he wrote his name down for. I let him know through IM that I would be going as well. He got really annoyed about that to the kids. Oh well, is there anything I do which doesn’t annoy him????

Night all

How did you find this out?

Because DS told me. I should have stopped him. He is very chatty about the break up.

You really need to sit down with your children and tell them that you are much healthier having no contact with their father, which includes them telling you about their conversations. This is so you will be able to live with some sense of peace again. Hearing about him sends you into a spin. Plan B doesn't mean the relationship is over. It means until the relationship becomes healthy again, your emotional health is protected. The stress is going to wear you down.

When your kids want to talk with you about their conversations with their father, immediately hold up your hand and let them know you don't want to hear it. This is what it means to go dark. You aren't hearing about him or from him - just notes from your IM about when the children are to be with him. Plan B is about protecting yourself from the stress and chaos of the relationship as it is now. Please remind me. Did you write a Plan B letter to him specifying what it will take to get back together?

I have allowed him to get to me. I have been awake most of the night.

3 things.

1 taking the children the our friends house on Friday - they are his ‘new friends’ and I know he has been confiding in the girl
2 getting our DS to shave his back he only does this if someone is going to see it which means he probably has a woman on the go
3 saying he doesn’t think we will get back together

I feel like all the above was made to get at me, and all the other things before. BUT they probably aren’t they are just him moving on

I am annoyed that I didn’t react to the way he was behaving last week. He was trying to reconnect with me and I ignored under Plan B. DS even said to me Mum if you responded then maybe Dad would have apologised and you would be sorting things out.

So now I have been up most the night.

I am still totally in love with him. How am I going to cope with when he actually has a new GF and starts introducing her to everyone? My mind is going crazy thinking what’s he up to???

My saving grace is that I am primary carer of the children. He gets them 8 nights per month. That’s all.

Yes I gave him a Plan B letter 3 weeks ago

I am punishing myself for not responding to his communications. His texts etc...I feel I should have responded

I have pains in my chest and my anxiety levels are high.

How could he tell our DS we are never getting back together???

I need to pull myself together it will get better as the day goes i am in a bad way I knew this would happen.

Oh, cool. I'm so so sorry. I'm devastated for you. It brings me back to everything I went through with my husband.

Please trust your instincts. Believe when people tell you who they are. If he is done, he is done. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure my husband was doing the same thing during his affair.

*hugs* I can't believe he's doing this to you. *cries* I wouldn't wish your pain on my worst enemy. I know it hurts. Get away from him. There's nothing you can do to stop him from getting with this woman. I'm so sorry! I wish I had advice that will make the pain stop.

Please get to your doctor this week to see about short term meds for anxiety and depression. They will help, although it usually takes a week or two to kick in. For immediate help, ask for something that will work right away to reduce your anxiety.

Your boyfriend should have communicated his intention to change through your IM. That way you would have known he was serious about the first step. Trying to break the Plan B protection wall is a way for him to call the shots and be in control. Remember to tell your children you don't want to hear about their father, his conversations with them, their thoughts and "advice" about what you should have done. Get some exercise and go be with some friends and don't discuss your boyfriend or your situation with them. If they ask, tell them you are not in contact with him and don't want to talk about it. Stay dark, even in your thoughts. Several threads of women in Plan B said they would wear a rubber band around their wrist and snap it when they started ruminating and dwelling on their situation.

Thanks guys I have pulled myself out the pit of despair and I am back in the room. It is so sunny here today so the kids and I went out for a long walk with some friends in the fresh air.

Have docs this week so might get something to see me through.

BF turned up at the house today randomly to drop some item of kids clothing. The kids and I were out.

You know what I am going to be ok. The only hole of Plan B now is me stopping asking the kids about him. Cutting off contact was the only way I know that now.

I am pretty resolute that I never want to get back with someone who treated me so poorly. I am fine with that and there is a glimmer of hope & happiness for the future.

As Living Well said, I let him needle me today. Only for half the day though!!!!!

Hey, nobody is perfect all the time

So for what was a hell of a morning turned out to be a wonderful evening. I am so blessed with DS and DD they are just wonderful in every way.

We cooked together and put on some loud music and danced together. My DD who is 6 loves Grease so we danced our socks off to that in the lounge.

I have worked out DS who is 7 is a right little minx. He loves ‘pillow talk’ at night time when he gets everything off his chest. I now have an elastic band whenever I feel tempted to bring up BF I snap it. Because pillow talk is my vulnerable time.

So DS saw me looking at Louis Vuitton bags on my phone and told me that he told BF that Mum has been looking at LV bags and they are £2k each. He said that BF got really mad and started saying it’s me paying for all these things son!!!! Then DS said Dad you need to calm down you need anger mgmt and BF apparently got really angry and started shouting. I did tell DS off for being disrespectful but boy did we laugh so much. We cried with laughter because I am definitely not getting an LV bag and forcDS to suggest anger management! I have sussed DS our though he is playing us off on each other winding each other up. So I have pulled him on that.

Dear me kids hey!

Thanks All for being here

Hi Peeps

I have to admit I have allowed his comment ‘I am never coming back’. My belief is that was said out of anger after I have blocked his number and not answered his text messages.

From his point of view we established contact 10 days ago, with us sending some messages about the children, him sending me pictures and even having a conversation on the doorstep. The he reaches out by telling me his poorly (expecting me to show sympathy) and I ignored his messages and then he thinks I went out an a date. He also is really annoyed because he put his name down on the list for parents evening at the school. I let him know through IM that I would join him. He kicked off about that in front of the children and said you mother is taking my parents evening away from me. Wah! Wah! Wah!

My feeling is he is really angry. That his state of mind at the moment.

However, I have allowed his antics at the weekend to get to me and can’t shake off the anxiety feeling. I keep thinking back to how he treated me last year and not allow him to make me feel rubbish about myself the way he did. I have to keep focused on how awful he was to me, the arrogance and entitlement.

I am staying strong and have not reacted to anything he did at the weekend, even in anger, spite or panic or whatever. I have responded appropriately to his requests to IM. He sent one through this morning complaining about something my son has access to on his IPad. Even though BF has set up an Instagram account for my son which has open access!!!!!

I have to think of it - the cheek of it - I am not coming back!! I asked you to leave and what makes him think I want him back the way he has been.

I am proud of myself I have not allowed him to provoke me I anyway. I have not contacted him once.

Not sure if he is going to parents evening tonight but I am not missing out. I am going there for the children.

Also started a course of Anti DS today.

Reality of splitting up is hitting me like a train. Getting lots of messages from friends....makes me feel sick.

Pressure is really mounting for me! Isn’t it supposed to be for him, not me???!!!!

Cool, you are over thinking this. It is really not complicated at all. Either he meets your plan B requirements or he does not. His choice but a win for you, no matter what. You get out of a toxic situation either because he has seen the light or because he is history.

Find your inner terrier, you know you can do this.

Plan B is for you, not to build pressure for him. It's to protect you from the drama and stress, which will affect your emotional, mental, and physical health.

I would second this. I made the mistake of not going into Plan B soon enough; I spent too long in plan A. The result was that I so hated him by the time I went into plan B that there was no chance of saving anything. Plans A and B were not as clearly spelled out then. As you clearly have love left, do what you can to protect it with no contact.

Hi Peeps

I have had a good week. Been getting into work and focusing on the children and had my first tennis lesson today!

Had a lot of messages through the week from BF. I am not sure whether he is really moving on or trying to yank my chain, I think he is decided it’s over and trying to move on with his life. Or maybe he is trying to get a reaction who knows.

1 message from IM on Weds from BF was unhappy with my DS using a certain app on his iPad.
2 message on Thursday saying that can I actually make DS chat to him on the phone? As he didn’t feel like DS wanted to talk to him.
3. Today this morning - That he isn’t happy with me making a change to the schedule next week. That he would like to stick to a regular schedule without changes. Can’t believe this one since only this week he asked to make a change to take DS to football Monday night!
4. Today this afternoon - That he would like the flight details for Antigua to see if he can get a refund on flights?

It’s funny I don’t even feel needled at all anymore. Yes whatever BF! Whatever you want..::

Funny something has definetly shifted in me.

Living Well is he trying to needle me? Why?

I am feeling so good this week:)

Were all these messages through your IM or directly to you?

Hi BH

Yes all via IM. There was more stuff but filtered out.

Another message via IM this evening - BF said he didn’t have time to pick up overnight stuff from house and heard from a friend that you are out on the town tonight, could you please drop DD blanket off on way out to his place?!

Ermmm no! Just ignore.

Who in the heck told him I was out tonight?!!!!

Another request from IM to leave football stuff out for BF. I left the bag on the front porch. I was lying in bed and then BF pulled up in front drive, opened the front door and let DS in. DS came up to the bedroom and gave me a kiss and then they went.

He didn’t even need to come in the stuff was outside. I feel like he is checking up on me. Making sure I am home and that no one is in bed with me. Lord knows.

So it’s all been happening.

BF came back after football with DS. He let himself in the house again and stood in the kitchen. He said that DS was feeling poorly and that he had been up in the night and wanted to be with me. I just nodded and said ok. Then he said well it’s not really ok I am finding this devastating. I may have goofed but I said I am sure then Left the kitchen.

What’s going on? I guess he is worried about me meeting someone else but I am not giving anything away.

Luckily I was looking good when he came round and he was really looking me up and down.

Change your locks today. You only need to change the tumblers, take the old ones out and go to a locksmith with them. Then you can pop in the new ones. The only tool you need is a screwdriver.

Thank you.

Will get locks changed? Why is he doing this Living Well?

I don’t understand what’s going on.

Good, you will sleep better now


No idea and it does not matter. My XH used to stalk me. He knew when I was going to walk the terrier in the mornings and would follow me to the park. Eventually he got bored of being ignored by both of us.

I was out all day yesterday he came round again about 5 minutes after we got home to drop off an item of the kids clothing.

Feeling like I missed a chance to sort things out when he stood in the kitchen and said that he is feeling devastated?

Speaking of the kitchen..

https://forum.marriagebuilders.com//ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2332869

You aren't listening to us are you? Get your fingers out of your ears. BF is not going to even start to think about addressing the requirements you put into your plan B letter until he sees YOU start to be serious about plan B.

Right now he still thinks you will take him back without meeting any of your requirements. He wants his dinner cooked and to see his children every night and go back to treating you like a discarded sock. Keep this plan C up much longer and you will begin to hate him. You may also get ill at which time he will get custody.

Then it will not matter that he has dried out and done anger management because you will be past the point of no return. Is that what you want?

Ok I hear you all

On one hand I feel like I have done really well, despite his numerous attempts I have not buckled once. Or even contacted him.

On another hand you are telling me that I am doing Plan C but not sure why.

I had another message from IM for him asking for more time with the children:( I ignored and sent him a new schedule with no additional time. Yet to hear back on that.

Anger & anxiety has now turned to sadness on my part.

Came home from work early today feeling poorly.

Yes I now see his antics at the weekend at another pathetic attempt at guilt tripping me, nothing else.

So sad my life has turned out like this.

You said he was in your kitchen. That is Plan C for Catastrophe. Not only should he not be in your house, he should not enter your garden. Your children need to walk from his car, they are old enough to do that.

Cheer up, you have lots of life ahead of you and all of it is going to be better than being treated like a discarded sock.

The reason why we recommend a solid plan B is we learned to understand the MB program. It is designed to recover your life while minimizing damage and pain. If you have questions about the program, or if you don't like the plan, please use this forum for clarification, or contact Dr Harley again.

Wether or not your relationship will be able to recover depends on the willingness to follow the steps laid out in the plan B letter and participate in the MB program.

The chances of recovery are zero if the initial willingness is not there, if the requirements are not met. The longer you stay in a painful plan C, the more damage is done to you personally, so more time needed to heal from additional damage.

Plan B protects you and a solid plan B will help you regain control and sanity. You are in an emotional rollercoaster and every time you have contact, it is day zero. When you are in a solid plan B, your emotions will step aside and hand over the steering wheel to your ratio.
Take care!

Thanks all

So sick of not having my children even if it’s only for 2 nights per week.

BF is now asking via IM to have more time with the children and to talk direct so that we can agree a schedule going forward. He has also suggested seeing a mediator.

He already has them one night in the week and half the weekend?!

Crying again.

Of course you are


So yet more attempts to break your plan B. Your IM should not be sending you these messages. Give IM a boiler plate response to send each time something like this comes in. An extract from your plan B letter would be good.


Nothing easy about the breakdown of a relationship. Had you thought about formalising the visitation through your solicitor?

Just want to say thanks for all your time and support Living Well.

So IM went back with a response to BF. Then BF has come back saying that he now doesn’t want more time with the children just to fix a schedule like every other weekend and one set night each weekend. Hurrah!!!!

So only with them 2 nights per week at the moment. He is so erratic one day requesting one thing then changing his mind later.

Have a good weekend all.

No, he is being very consistent. Consistently poking large holes in your plan B. He is not interested in seeing more of the children, he is interested in seeing how long it take you to agree to be his discarded sock again :-)

LOL

He is gonna have a lonnnnnng wait!

Hope you are all keeping well in the States with the Coronavirus

Hi there

I am having really heart pangs for him today. I really wish I could think a bit more clearer, I seem to be pining for him way too much. I am spending a lot of time focusing on building a new life making plans, I have taken up tennis which I really enjoy.

BF seems to take over my thoughts most days. I am very embarrassed about the situation and just can’t seem to get to that place of happiness looking forward to a better life.

I am also filled with fear. Fear he is never going to change and fear that he has met someone new and because I live in such a small town it is going to rubbed in my face.

Funny though out of all this process I feel as though I am a better mother. I feel so much closer to the children.

I now actually think been treated like a discarded sock is better than my children been away from me 2 nights per week.

BF has sent to the house today a Mother’s Day card from Moonpig. Dear me.

LOL I know you don't mean that. Imagine the damage to your children! I had a neighbour once who used to hit his wife. They had 3 boys and 2 girls. I'm sure all the boys grew up expecting to treat their own wives the same way and the girls chose men who dished out that kind of treatment.

But if two nights with Dad is too much for you, go to your solicitor and see what you can arrange. Maybe ask for every other weekend?

No I didn’t mean it!!

I just want to feel normal again. I am trying everything diet, exercise, meditation, reading and self care. I am making plans been social and doing things, but yet to feel great!

I feel like contacting him today, which is weird after all this time. Started to think about how long he was seeing this other woman and thoughts such as that...!

This Coronavirus has like lots of other people made me feel very isolated. I am now working from home full time and it is so lonely.

Hi all

Just checking in.

We are all in self isolation here in the UK. Luckily we have the perfect house for it.

BF has made numerous attempts to poke holes in plan. My IM is starting to feel the pressure again. BF has said that we are going to be in the rest of each other’s lives forevever because of the children and is insisting on contact. Also does not like the time difference.

He picked the children up over the weekend and came in the house wanting to chat. He dropped the children off another day and wondered round to the back garden and started up his motorbike then left.

I really feel like I am totally checked where he is concerned and I am feeling so much bettter out of it and away from him. Finally! It has taken me 9 weeks!! I am actually starting to look forward to a healthier future. I can’t believe I endured that awful behaviour for so long.

Great, maybe get some veg seeds on line and plant them. Children can pick and eat the veg over the summer.


Your IM is still passing on stuff that he should be filtering out. Tell him that you should not be hearing this.


What happened to changing the locks?


You will feel even better once you have filled the holes. IM filter and locks.

So quick update.

BF has insisted via the IM that the children stay with me during the pandemic. So BF visits the children at the house every other day in the afternoon for a couple of hours. The weather has been good here so he stays out in the garden whilst I get some work done in the office.

He keeps trying to engage in conversation but I wander off. It is so difficult.

He uses corona to get access to you without meeting the requirements in your plan B letter. Not ok.

Why must the children stay in your house during the pandemic? Is his house unsafe? And if his house is unsafe, why is he safe to be around the kids?

Sounds like a bs excuse to me. But you already know that.

It’s all turned into an absolute disaster.

He has hoovered me right back up.

He spent the day here yesterday not really interested in seeing the children, just in talking to me. I ended up getting in a conversation with him.

Him telling me how this pandemic has made him rethink everything. That it is putting everything in perspective. How his business partner thinks he should just come home. He then went to kiss me and I let him do that and then I pushed him away.

I allowed myself to get in a conversation with him and also to be manipulated by him, with no real change. I am so annoyed with myself.

I honestly don’t feel like I can do this. The pain of being away from him is so awful but the pain of him being near me in worse.

Help.

I think it's absolutely okay for you to get back together with him if that's what you really want to do, but I think it is completely unacceptable for you to flout the social distancing rules that have been put in place here to protect our precious National Health Service. These are:

"Everyone must stay at home to help stop the spread of coronavirus.

You should only leave the house for 1 of 4 reasons:

shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible

one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle – alone or with members of your household

any medical need, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person

travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home

Important

These 4 reasons are exceptions – even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household."
Coronavirus: Advice for everyone

Children whose parents have separated are allowed to be exchanged between those parents. Nowhere does the guidance state that one parent is allowed to spend time at the household of the other. In fact, the guidelines very clearly state that you must not visit anyone, not even family members with whom you do not live.

How does your boyfriend have the right to dictate to your IM what will happen with the children? How does he have the right to dictate that he will visit them at your house? And why is he seeing them every other day, when as far as I can remember, he didn't see them every other day under your existing agreement? I understand that he is probably at home full-time under our current rules, but that does not give him the right to spend every other day at your house.

If he is unwilling to have the children stay with him (and why was this? What does the virus have to do with having his children stay as they did before?), he should have asked via the IM for a different arrangement. You could have come to an agreement that he could face-time them on his days off, and pick them off and drop them back with you the same day only on his scheduled days with them. I think it's very obvious that you are glad not to lose the kids two days a week (perfectly understandable), but also glad to have him at your house every other day, showing his distress at being separated from you and heavily hinting that he wants to go back home. His behaviour shows that you haven't lost him, and that he's still heavily invested in you, the family and the home, and that's what you want. I can understand how you feel, and I think you should decide under what conditions you will get back together with him. That isn't a decision for anyone else to make for you.

What I can't abide is the way you are putting our NHS at risk. You might think that if he spends all his time in the garden, that this is social distancing under the rules, but it isn't, and under no circumstances can kissing him be within the rules, either.

It isn't for you to stretch and bend the social distancing rules to fit your private life. You can have as much contact with him as you want to, as long as you do it virtually until the current rules are changed. But for all our sakes, and the sakes of the front-line workers in the NHS, observe the social distancing rules and stop allowing him to set foot on your property.

I am totally baffled by this logic.

The social distancing rules are designed to keep us apart from each other. How does that result in his spending more time at your house than he did before?

Totally baffled.

Change the locks, go into plan B/quarantine.

I see nothing in her post to indicate that he was breaking into the house to spend every other day with the children. I see nothing to indicate that she even tried to refuse him entry. I see no indication that she tried to keep him off the property even before the social distancing rules were passed.

I'm really not in the business of telling her off for breaking "Plan B", which she has never enforced anyway. What I can't stand, and what I will object very loudly to, is people acting as if the crisis/social distancing rules don't apply to them. I'm focusing on the risk to other people, and to the NHS.

Hi, please read the first few postings you did here, to remind yourself what you like and what you don‘t like about him.
This would be angood time to talk with him about the things you want and do not want from your relationship. If he is serious, he will take your list of complaints seriously. If he is just looking for the quickest way to get you around, hebwill do as little as possible, except of course grand words (don‘t cost him) and maybe some grand deeds in the beginning. After 3 months you will be back you square 1, in that case.

Apologies Sugarcane I didn’t mean to offend you. I do see what you are saying and will revert back to him having the kids at his house. The last thing I want to do is put extra pressure on the NHS.

He is dropping heavy hints about coming home but I think he is wanting me to do the asking. He has also told me he is suffering with depression.

I don’t know how to handle this? I felt myself weakening yesterday and forgetting some of my terms. That made me feel awful.

I know the answer deep down, is to completely detach from him and get him to see the kids at his house.

I know it’s all my fault I weakened

I am not backing down I have come this far.

You strike me as a warmhearted human being, who may be somewhat impulsive and acts from her emotions in the moment. The same characteristics that can make you a wonderful mother can be a disadvantage when dealing with a partner who cares more about his own interests than your’s and the children‘s.

Of course it is in hs best interest to come back and change as little as possible, just enough temporarily for you to cave and let him back in. He knows you are weak-hearted when he throws the love or family card.

I don‘t know if you know the Harlow experiment with monkeys klinging to a fake fur or even wire mother, because that is all they had. You can google it. I myself have known a time where I was klinging to the wire mother, hoping to turn it into a real person, by being nice and loving enough.

But that is not how a loving relationship should work. You should feel cared for. You should feel as though he would put his life on the line for you as you do for him. From what you told us it is clear that you are doing your best to make things work, while he is doing only what suits him and is basically stringing you along, probably until you are fourtyish and he will exchange you for a younger model.

Of course you want the family together and you want the times back when he is nice and you have great times. If only he did not have this other side. If only he had a real heart.
Do you think he would take you back if you behaved to him as he did to you in the past? Think again.

It is normal that you have loving feelings for this person that you have been attached to. It means you are a loving human.
But if he is not willing to change you will be clammering to the cold wire mother, rocking yourself to sleep and pretending to be in a loving relationship.

My friend, you backed down long ago. He knows you are not serious about any conditions and will take him back unconditionally. He has the best of both worlds now.

Please keep posting, regardless of reconciliation.
It helps to implement MB concepts.

Hi all

Thanks for checking in on me HappyHeart.

I am still here still reading but a bit embarrassed really to post as I have messed up on plan.

I don’t really know what to say but these are the facts...I am sure I will get some tough posts back...

BF has been over every day staying at his house at night and coming over during the day we have had some chats.

We discussed what happened with the other woman he said his head was turned and it was a terrible thing to do and he was sorry. He did however also say that the relationship had been awful for 2 years prior to that and the other woman was not the main reason for the separation. He said it ended the day I found out. I told him that in order to regain my trust he would have to be completely transparent particularly with phone. He said he understands that and has been leaving his phone around the house unlocked. I have gone through it a few times and nothing.

He has been trying to woo me back if you like with sending lots of old pictures of us 2, taking up yoga so he can do this with me in the evenings and even watching some tv with me when the kids go to bed (he has never been a tv fan mainly books). He has constantly texting me with love messages and pictures. He has been doing all the shopping for us, getting chores done round the house and all over seems to appreciate what I do for house and family a lot more.

He does say how awful the relationship was for a long time and part of me wants to say if it was so awful what are you doing back here then?

He has tried to have SF with me and I have made it clear that unless there is a firm commitment that we are together then this will not be happening. So there has been nothing on that front.

He has not drank at all since we have been seeing each other again is in full fitness mode.

However I still feel uneasy.

Dr Harleys advice was to separate, date again fall in love, marry and move in together.

So really I guess we are ‘dating’, but I have not had the conversation with him yet about expectations in particular marriage. Mostly because I am afraid because deep down I doubt he will want to marry. I also know this is a deal breaker for me. I think he thinks the relationship was bad for 2 years, he realised how much he loved me and missed me during the separation, but is dating to see how things go with the aim of getting back together.

So despite what people think I won’t just drift back into him moving back in, it would have to be with a commitment a ring. As without this he is free to walk again. Also he is not saying to me I want to be with you for life through thick and thin. Thing is I wouldn’t let him move back in without this as I would just be fed up again and would make me a renter and then we would split again which would be terrible for the children.

The problem is now I am stuck between having this conversation with him and rocking the boat as I am enjoying having the children all the time and seeing him even if I know it’s weak.

I really need to say to him, I am enjoying spending time with you but want you to know that in order for us to live together again I would have to be married.

Just being honest go easy please.

Did you ever give him your list in your Plan B letter?

Do I get this right.. he had the affair, had angry outbursts in the beginning of your relationship, problematic alcohol abuse, he didn't show any effort to make things better, now he wants back but only if it isn't as awful as it has been for him for the last 2 years if he returns?

Can you read again the post Happyheart wrote March 29th and respond to it, regarding the Harlow-experiment? I'm afraid it is closer to your situation than anyone would want.

Also, reading other threads on the MB forum might give you perspective. I don't know if you have read this one, but I love this thread for inspiration.
https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/...2894680/fallout-after-exposure-help.html
Not that I want you to end up without BF, but I want you to recover from the pain caused by the relationship and eventually in a happy and fulfilling romantic marriage. That will require quite some changes and I am not convinced BF is willing to put in the effort.

There is another thing you need to say too. Here is your first post


He was binge drinking all night, remember? This is someone for whom alcohol has become a poison. He needs to go through AA before you agree to marry him. An alcoholic can become a dry drunk for an extended period but eventually he will go back to it because he has not faced his demons.

You can do this Cool. Not just for you but for your children.

Read your other thread. Came across this post on how controlling and manipulative he can be. Not to hurt you, but to warn you not to go back if he manipulates you into making him feel better at your expense. Or, like you wrote, if he manipulates you to 'behave yourself'.


If he hasn't changed, please don't let him in.

Your plan B letter. Did he do anything you asked?

Hi there

Another quick update. I have spending lots of time with BF both with the kids and on our own once they are in bed.

Something still does not sit right with me.

I don’t feel like he is particularly remorseful about the affair, his words were his head was turned but it ‘was nothing’. That he met up with her once after work. He also said things were so awful between us that’s why I had the affair. This is an emotional affair that has been going on for months and he expects me to believe he met up with her once?

Also he mentioned to me how awful it had been the last few years. He said that we just did not get on and the issues such as:

1 me wanting the kids to go to private school
2. I wanted a third child
3 I wanted to get married

I mean really?! Are they such awful things for me to have desires such as these?!

So today when the kids were indoors watching a film and we were sat outside, I told him that I still felt that he hadn’t been honest about how often he had met up with the other woman and how I don’t feel like he is remorseful about what happened. That unless he is willing to be open and honest with me there is no point him coming round here.

He then did the usual which was to get angry and start saying things like I am not going to put up with this for the rest of my life with you keep going on about it.

So I am back to square one I guess. He needs to come clean with me about what actually happened and realise how much it hurt me before he comes back round here.

Why is it whenever I have a voice or opinion or concern he gets angry with me?

Why would someone say it’s an issue because you have a desire for something?

It’s like be quiet be happy with what you have an don’t ask for anything!

So he wants to reconcile/move back in after his affair, but only if you stop nagging about a future together and don't do the same terrible things that made him have the affair in the first place.

Pretty much.

What I really want to say to him if it was so awful then what are you doing back here?

He actually said we don’t get on and we have tried counselling. He was always the one who wanted to go to counselling not me. We did go but the counsellor would give us suggestions, she picked up on the fact that I found it difficult to communicate with him about ‘issues’ as he would explode and start shouting. That could be about anything that would irritate him. That is why so often I gave up.

He is here again today, we are barely speaking. This time he bought me ice cream and eggs. I have lost my voice again.

I just can’t communicate with him. I am scared to say anything to him as it sets him off.

I am also so fed up of people who I haven’t heard of for ages contacting me to find out the gossip. What do I tell them? Mind your own business I haven’t heard from you for 6 months.

Coolbeginnings I had been wondering about you and your family and am so grateful it sounds like you are all healthy and well. Did your bf meet the terms of your Plan B letter? This is what you had decided you would need to move forward together. Do you still feel that way? He sounds like a bully that has pushed you into a different arrangement that leaves you feeling bad. I don’t think you can build a relationship based on mutual care that way, by going along with this plan. I think you and your family deserve that.

Why are you afraid of him?

Hi LivingWell

Because one of the thing BF says that went wrong in the relationship is that we didn’t get on. Normal cycle is that we would talk about something if he didn’t like it or disagreed would get angry lose his temper and start shouting.

If I wanted to get my point across then I would have to raise my voice too. At the end of the relationship I gave up raising anything because I wanted to show him that we did get on and I didn’t want to cause a row

Also the cycle after the row would be we both would quiet and distant on each other. Sometimes for days and even weeks. He is not just like this with me, it would be with other people too.

I am not afraid of him physically, he has never touched me in the 9 years we have been together.

Seems to me you want him to care.

His actions don't show care.

In this respect he doesn’t but whilst he has been round the house he is trying to show he cares. For example, showing concern over a bad hand I have and offering to take the kids out for an hour walk so I can get some time to relax. He is also getting lots of jobs round the house for me.

Problem I have is something just doesn’t feel right in my heart. I know that I am settling really and there are things I can’t even say to him. It’s difficult because I don’t want to raise things with him during the day when the kids are awake in case it turns into an argument, but then he usually leaves once the kids are in bed and heads home so I would have to call him in the evening.

I want to call him tonight and say I don’t feel like you are particularly remorseful about the affair, that you blame it on how bad things were between us? But I know that he will get angry that I am still going on about it and he will probably put the phone down on me and it will return to Plan B. Also I feel I need to reiterate to him that I will never live with him again unless he was married and he will probably laugh in my face.

It’s just a total disaster really. If I assert myself he will just lose his temper and if I don’t I am left with this unsettling feeling that we are wasting our time being with each other.

He has basically told me that we are spending time together to see how we get on before he moves back in. I have told him conversations need to be had before that happens!

I want to ring him tonight and tell him that I feel he is not remorseful at all about the affair! Any thoughts please?

I have had enough I think he is taking the absolute mickey out of me!!

With an addict, his drug is always his first love.

I just read on old post of Living_well to a poster called Dajavude.

It said when your first marriage was failing, XH would show up every evening with flowers. That you got to the point of feeling sick if he turned up with another flower. That it felt to you that the flowers were his way of avoiding the real work of building a relationship of extraordinary care.

This is how I feel when BF brings gifts. I get a lot of gifts, today I got a brownie and he is bringing me a crab for dinner tonight! Every time I get a gift I feel the same. It’s worse on birthdays / Christmas was he spends a lot of money on me I am thinking where is my ring???? When are you really going to commit to me?? I really want to say take the gift back buy me something that means something.

So BF had the children overnight at his place last night, he brought them back in the afternoon then went back home to do some work.

Whilst he was at his house dear son was telling me that BF shouted at him a few times. It is a real problem at the moment that DS really dislikes his father and does not want to go round there. I just feel BF is really hard on DS and picks on him. DS is 7 years old and is quite a hard work child prone to lots of tantrums, every so often he needs pulling in a little and then seems to revert to good behaviour. However, I feel that BF is very hard on him.

BF came back round later and him and DS were arguing again, BF stayed had some dinner then went to leave.

I had a conversation with him when he went to the car and kids were sat watching TV. I wanted to talk to him about how i dont feel he has been completely honest about the other woman and how he doesnt seem to be at all remorseful about the situation. This is how it went....

I said to BF that I am finding this situation really strange and he agreed with me and said it was and felt that perhaps we had jumped straight in and maybe that wasnt such a good idea and that he was backing off a little and perhaps coming over every other night! That the situation was strange with the pandemic and we were thrown together. He then started to launch into how he feels and that half our problems stem from our sons behaviour. That he wanted a simple life without any aggro. That he is finding work really stressful at the moment and he is worried about the long term implications. He also said that we disagree on how to bring up our son and that I am too soft with him. I then said I am disciplining him most days and not sure how he could say that. Already I felt again like I was trying to talk to him about how i felt and ended up me listening to him. Also mentioned that he heard me laughing and joking on a work conference call with other men and that we never do that. I told him that maybe it would be a good idea to revert back to our previous arrangement if this is how he felt. Anyway, I did manage to tell him that if he was going to come round here that he would have to be more transparent with his phone and stop all this contact with other women. He then started to tell me how insecure I was and drove off. I shook my head and walked inside.

So I guess I am back to Plan B....

I am feeling more relieved that I tried to have a discussion with him. I was not comfortable at all having him around.

Having these few weeks with no contact with BF made me get old my self back a bit and makes you realise your own self worth again. Him coming back has made me realise that I put up with a lot of bad behaviour as I didn’t really feel like I had a choice.

He didn’t really make much effort with me at all, he did initially to get me to spend time with him, as soon as he did it went back to how it was before.

Now I do have a choice and I know I will be just fine without him, if not better off with the way he treats me.

He has come back EXPECTING us to reconcile, that he thinks he has done nothing wrong and his affair was a result of our poor relationship. He Is treating this period as time to ‘see how it goes’ before moving back in.

As it happens, I don't think my XH was capable of building a relationship of extraordinary care. For you, I sense there is more chance. For example my XH would never have moved out in a million years.


So what is stopping you from saying exactly that?

Your BF is very consistent. He has said all along that he expects to go back to the way things were. The problem with very driven and determined people is that they do not easily change. You have done nothing to shake him out of his belief that he will win meaning come back without changing a thing.

What is your plan? If you keep going like this you will hate him, damage your children and become ill.

Thank you Living_Well

I guess my plan is to go back to Plan B, he was suppose to be coming over later today to spend time with us but that won’t be happening. I am certainly not having him in the house.

I am really concerned about his boundaries around women. There is this strange thing he does which is befriend attractive married/attached women. It just has to stop before he can start coming round here. I am not sure why he does this, for his ego?

For example, he got really friendly with another married woman who I am also friends with through been school governors and said he has been to her house to do yoga with her and her husband (which was backed up by what I saw on his phone). I told him that it is inappropriate and he said he is doing a ‘bit of business with her husband’.

I also have another very attractive female friend that needed some building work on her and her partners house. He started getting involved in that too and struck up a relationship with her and her partner. She is totally in love with her partner, and then BF said again that he gets on really well with her partner and he is making money out of the project.

It’s just odd behaviour it’s like he is making excuses to be around attractive looking women.

I told him yesterday that he needs to stop all this before he spends time here with me and the kids.

You have never been in Plan B. I think what has happened is that you have been confused by what Dr Harley told you to do. You have missed a critical step. BF needs to meet the conditions of your Plan B. You do not set eyes on him AT ALL until he meets those conditions; actions not words. Once he has done that and you are convinced he has genuinely addressed the issues, the next step will be to start dating.

Dates are for enjoyment, not for discussing your relationship. If, when you are dating him you find that he starts flirting/drinking/arguing, you will dump him. I'm sure you would not have been attracted to him when you first met him if he had done any of those things and you will not be attracted to him now.

The final happy ending, if he has cleaned up his behaviour and you are sure that the changes are permanent is that he asks you to marry him. That is the final step, you will not get there for a year.

I hear you Living_Well I really do.

I think I got sucked back in because I was hating the children going away and wanted to test the waters.

I get it now I really do. I have changed since he left in January. This time spending time with him and as different and I was looking at him in a different light. It was almost like I was dating him and thinking well the fact that I can’t talk to him without him blowing up is not a good sign.

It’s going to be a long road but I am not in any rush and I am not going anywhere.

I have read back over old posts and people were right. Melody Lane was right that when he knows I am serious about this he will barge into your home and he did. If only I had kept it up, I think he would have met my conditions.

I do have a question Living_Well. You mentioned you think there is hope for me because BF moved out. I don’t quite get this because I thought there would have been more hope if he had tried to stay and work things out?

Raining non stop here in the UK, chilling out with the kids doing some baking and watching family movies.

So pick yourself up Cool and get started. You have nothing to lose.


Interesting question; I looked back at your early story. He left temporarily, apparently for another woman. That apparently quickly fizzled out (maybe he dumped her). I get the impression that he stayed away in the hope that you would 'get over it'. If he had decided to pull the plug because there was no hope, he would either have moved straight back in or put the house up for sale.

Thank you Living for getting back to me:)

So I will have the dreaded conversation with him today, meet my conditions in the letter or stay away. More heartbreak looming.

Happy weekend everyone, I hope you are all keeping safe.

I think the benefit of the plan b letter is you don’t have to have these dreaded conversations. Makes big love bank withdrawals for both of you. I know all this quarantine stuff is hard. My DD is staying with her dad so I visit her outside like on the patio maintaining the 6 feet. It’s for my protection too. We go for social distance walks too. So a rainy weekend like this one we meet online until the rain lets up. Do you think something like that would work for your kids? Their dad can visit outside. You can change the locks if you want.

Hi all

Everyday I have been meaning to have the conversation with BF about Plan B letter conditions and no time seems right. He is making such an effort and completely different to how he was the year before he left. He is giving me lots of compliments, helping more around the home not showing any of the bad behaviour before he left like snapping at me, taking me for granted etc. So me having this conversation really feels like I am being disruptive.

However I know it needs to be done, as I feel this anxiety when I am around him.

Anyway he is coming round this evening to put the children to bed and then wants us to spend some time together so I guess this is it . I will tell him tonight. He feels that everything is going well and that we are getting on. His complaint before was that we don’t get on. Well the difference is now he wants to get on!!!! That’s why we are.

I known it’s the right thing to do, as if he were to move back in without meeting any of my condition, the anxiety would eat away at me.

The marriage issue is eating away at me the most and how any woman puts up with this their entire life I don’t know.

I have another question - are some people better at burying things and living with relationship ‘issues’.

I have so many friends who have weird things in their relationships/marriages such as one husband who tells her he works late every evening’ he has cheated in the past. Regularly she posts on fb how in love she is. A friend of mine waited for 14 years for her now fiancé to propose but never let it really get to her enough.

Thanks guys Happy Friday.

I agree with NewEveryDay. Give him the letter again. Be clear that these are your rock solid boundaries. Don't even hint that that marrying you would allow him to bypass all your other conditions. You do not want to be married to a drunk with anger management problems that chases every female who smiled at him. Let him know that you understand this is going to be hard for him. Tell him 'faint heart never won fair lady'. Smile sweetly, shut the door. Change your locks and start a proper plan B.

That went well, not!

So having spent four weeks together, I finally told him how I feel about things.

He has been making an effort in his way to get on with each other. He has been doing jobs round the garden, spending money on the house to get things fixed and being affectionate. Something just has not sat right with me. He has stayed over the last 3 nights sleeping in the spare room. He has tried to have SF with me which I have not done. To me it has just felt like it was before with him living here and not been fully engaged. He has not made any verbal communication with me, he sees the situation that we did not get on for 3 or 4 years and that this is giving it a go to see how we get on.

So I have been telling him for the last few days we really need to talk. So this morning he came over to pick the kids up and then I had a conversation with him to say that I am finding this situation really difficult. He said it is difficult because of the corona virus and if it wasn’t for that we could date each other and see how we get on that way. I said that maybe it is a good idea to revert back to how the situation was before until the lockdown is over and pick it up from there. I then told him that I wanted to be clear that in order for us to live together again we would have to be married. He then started to get angry and say things like who do you think you are? It is like you are blaming me for all our problems that I am playing the victim and I am at fault for the broken relationship too. That I expect that we can pretend to be all fluffy and happy and everything is ok?? He then said I have to live in this awful Rented house, and I told him that he never had to he could have came to see me to try and sort things out. He thought I was playing the victim and that he was going to stand for friends and family looking down on him.

He then calmed down and tried to find me in the house and came up to me and gave me a hug and left.

This is so sad and I think I have finally had enough of clinging onto someone who is so half hearted about me.

I feel relieved again. Its all absolute horse manure.

He basically feels we are both to blame for the relationship breakdown. That he feels the affair was just a moment of madness and that he is back here helping his family through lockdown seeing how we get on.

So sad. Anyone been in the situation were you are desperately trying to make things right and you can’t.

I am now laughing at his response. I actually said to him I don’t want to lead you down the garden path, that if we do decide to date again I would want to be married.

This is when he actually freaked out and started to say ‘Who do you think you are’???

My world that I value myself enough not to live with a man who doesn’t want to marry me?

I have had enough of this rubbish. Who wants to be with a man who has to twist their arm to be with them?

I am so relieved that I have told him where I stand, already the anxiety I have been feeling is disappearing.

Lousy father and lousy partner, he can quite frankly jog on.

Cool I'm sorry it ended this way. Now go back to the solicitor and get the division of assets, child support and custody sorted out. With the lockdown about to end, he will get busy. You can do most of this on the telephone. Your top priority now is to protect your children. Why not see if you can stay in the house, at least for a while? Get those locks changed tomorrow before he decides to move back in. Much harder to get him out than keep him out.

Thank you Living, I really appreciate your time and support.

I have totally shut down and I am out as far as BF is concerned.

He turned up the following day pretending everything was normal. I told him that I meant everything I said to him that I told him yesterday. I pretty much told him everything I felt which is that he has treated me like dirt for a year which ended with him having an affair. He has shown no remorse for the affair and the only reason we are getting on now is because he is making an effort to get on with me rather than before when he irritable, short tempered and basically totally uninterested in me. Now he is making an effort with me because he has had a taste of what he can lose.

The only reason I gave into him when the lockdown came is because of the children. It felt so good to have them under the same roof as me again. Not having to have them leaving me twice a week.

I don’t feel he was totally remorseful about his affair and he said it ended the day he moved out. I think he is lying about who she is and how often they met up.

I don’t feel I can ever come to terms with the children being away from me 2 nights a week. As always I will dread the time they will have holidays without me.

Are you going into Plan B? Do you have an IM lined up? Will you be actually doing Plan B this time?

I am a bit embarrassed to come back here and you were all right about him.

I let him hoover me right back up into my life. He turned up 2 days after my last message and made it clear that marriage would be an option for us both in the future.

Then during the course of the last few weeks he decided that our son would go to private school after him making it clear during the last couple of years that he wasn’t interested in this. When he phoned to tell me he said I though you would be more excited that this, I was just perplexed as to what had changed his mind? For 2 he had made me think he didn’t want to send him and now all of a sudden he is doing this great thing after 2 years of telling me no?

So things had been going on him coming here all weekend. He had been getting drunk every weekend to the point of being ill the next day. Just yesterday Fathers Day he stayed at his house and then turned up at 1pm hungover. My daughter had cried in the morning saying where is Daddy? I guess there is a point in everyone’s life when you realise you have had enough?

He then proceeds to ask me if he can have son or daughter to stay at his house this week and I told him no this is there home. He then said but that’s where I live in the other house? I said is it so you have no plans to come home? He said well I think we need to get us right first. Laughable.

Yes you were right Melody Lane he has absolutely been cake eating. Yes you were right Goody2Shoes he was coming back to test the waters to see if it wasn’t as awful as before.
I am gobsmacked and dumbfounded. You have may all seen it but I definetly didn’t. I knew you were telling me but I didn’t want to believe. Not because I was desperate for him, but desperate to keep the family together and my children under my roof every night.

I am in Plan B.

I told BF over the phone this evening that I have decided it’s a good idea that he stays in his house and that we put in place a schedule for the children. He got really defensive and said that he doesn’t want what happened before and that he wants a custody agreement in place. I agreed with him that it would be a good idea. I also told him that I don’t want him coming to the house anymore and that my terms of the letter stand then put the phone down.

I know I have been here before but this time I have really come to my senses. I feel fine and relieved.

This time I will change the locks so he can’t get back in!

Do you have an intermediary?

My brother will be IM.

What a mess, I can’t believe I allowed him back in.

I spoke to his best friend last night he agreed with me that he has been cake eating and even he said that he has always needed therapy and I would stipulate your conditions before letting him back in. He told me how he grew up with a mother who completely doted on him and did everything for him. That he was put on a pedestal. That she covered for him and would lie for him to get him out of difficulty. He agreed that he changed about 2 years ago, stopped communicating and caring.

BF is not in his right mind to treat his children and I this way. It would be easy if I could put a label on it such as BPD or narcissism. Then I would at least help me understand. Maybe he was just ambivalent about me and that he wasn’t in love with me and that was it no more. He needs serious therapy before I would consider anything.

I now need to change locks as he will barge back in when he knows I am serious. I also need to sort out finances and child arrangements.

Thank you.

and I understand all of those who have posted are probably fed up telling me, but I had to realise all those things you told me for myself. I couldn't face the reality of what I was hearing. I also understand if experienced posters dont want to post as they may feel I am a waste of time. No pity party but I understand that aswell.

I know he has a serious drink problem, and I know he needs serious therapy. That if I was let him back in now it would cause serious damage to the children. The most important thing is right now the children seem to be ok. They are behaving well and seem very happy.

Please explain the situation to them in child appropriate language. Otherwise they will be left trying to work it out for themselves and children always blame themselves unless someone tells them otherwise. You are absolutely right to put your children first. Best of luck to you,

Also, could you please post your Plan B letter here so we can give you feedback? I think you did once before, but I didn't have time to go back and look for it.

Hi BH

I sent this one to Dr Harley....

Dear BF

Your affair has made living with you the most painful experience of my life. I could also not tolerate your drinking or your anger, and all of those things together was the reason I wanted us to separate.

I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. My sister will agree to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through her.

If you can prove your affair is over, have stopped drinking and are in some anger management program, then we could see start dating again. If you wanted to live with me again then you would have to marry me first.

I loved our life together, I have never felt so contented. You were everything to me successful, fun, father of our children and I never so much looked at another man. All I ever wanted for the future was for all four of us to be together and have a wonderful life. I remember once you said 'i hope we are buried together' and thats how I saw it too.

I loved you since I first met you and still do now, but cannot go back to how it was.

Love CoolB

I also have a copy next to my bed.

Got myself into such a state today.

Sent the new kids schedule over to IM, always a trigger.

BF has already come back asking for additional time. Nothing unreasonable though.

Here we go again.

Spoke to Joyce Harley today. On the radio Friday.

We don't want to be right, we want to spare you and your children the pain. Good that you will talk to the Harley's.

Thank you Goody2Shoes

The children seem to be fine thank the lord. I have clarified with them what is going on, that is not their fault. They seem bright and happy and Not acting up at all. I am very lucky.

I on the other hand, am broken. I have been sucked back in, suffered terrible anxiety for the last 48 hours. I am starting to calm back down and re group.

Looking back I did 10 weeks where I did not text, call or make any contact with him. I did well. I know I can get back to this place.

I wish I was able to shut the door and walk away for good. My family is everything to me.

Hi everyone

BF picked kids up today at 330pm. He came upto the doorstep to engage in conversation but I went inside the house. He shouted something down the drive to do with cutting the grass. I shut the door went inside.

I am glad for a 24 hour break of the kids , homeschooling and working with everything that has been going on has been hard.

speaking to the HArleys in 15 minutes. I am looking forward to it but also thinking why are you bothering? It is a lost cause and you are better off out of there.

If you’re in Plan B you shouldn’t be seeing or hearing from him at all.

Haven’t had a chance to listen. What did Dr. Harley say?

Morning MB folk!

So I had my session with the Harleys yesterday which I thoroughly enjoyed! What wonderful people.

Dr Harley had his chat with me before the show, he had done all the research on my situation and knew everything in depth!

Dr Harley said that I had got myself in a trap that I needed to get out of. He said he was counselling a couple in a very similar situation but they were married, but separated. He said it was the same pattern of abuse and control and that the husband had to learn to be kind and not use abusive tactics to control the situation.

He asked about how I came out of the Plan B. I told him how I had let him back in without meeting any of my conditions and that we have spent the last 12 weeks together. I told Dr Harley that during that time there had not been one angry outburst, not a single argument and that BF was making it clear that there was no other woman around. Dr Harley was very positive about this and said well he has met 2 conditions of your Plan B letter. So that’s positive!

He said now your need to address the third thing which is the alchohol. Dr Harley has A LOT of experience with this as you know and explained the single thing you can do for This guy is to get him to stop drinking for his health and he needs to stop. That I need to offer him help to stand by his side and do that.

He also advised that I need to treat him with kindness and respect and have courage.

That in need to tell BF that I love him, I want to spend the rest of my life with him and have an alchohol free relationship. He said get to this point first before anything else.

He also told me that I need to learn to express my emotions in a positive way.

If he doesn’t want to give up the alchohol then move into Plan B and move forward with a legal separation.

So I am really taken a back. I have also learnt that I am really negative thinker and that I should have taken on board the changes he has been making.

Still a long way to go and now I have to find the right time to have that conversation when it all fell apart this week.

Now it’s tricky how to take this forward as he has pulled back and we have reverted to kids schedule. We spoke on Thursday and said we needed to chat but he hasn’t initiated a conversation yet. Do I wait for him or do I catch him when he drops the kids off? Suggest we meet somewhere outside the home and talk?

Take this slowly. Do some research. I'm guessing he needs in-patient treatment. It takes 5 years for the brain to rewire the addictive pathways but the worst part is the first 3 months of drying out. If he is running his own business, he will need to do some careful planning. You can talk that through with him.

Thank you Living Well.

When the kids got back today I asked if Daddy had a drink and they said no he wasn’t drinking. I think he already knows he needs to do this.

He came and spoke to me when he dropped the kids off and I am kicking myself I should have left it but I said I think it would be a good idea to talk? He agreed that it was a good idea and that we should do it away from the house. He didn’t mention a time or place? What next? Wait for him to suggest a day? I feel like I am doing too much chasing here and he needs to come to me a bit.

Completely panicked now. BF has pulled away. When I didn’t communicate very well with him a couple of weeks ago, he has avoided me and given me the cold shoulder.

I am trying to stay calm but I am annoyed at myself for confronting him about the house and why he is extending the lease all of a sudden when he said before he was coming home. He did say that it was his fault too and that he should talk to me through this whole process.

It was good to feel him pursue me again when I let him back in. Now I feel like it has gone back to how it was before.

I am not sure if this is part of the abusive cycle where if I complained about something he did then he would give me the silent treatment? It feels like he may just need to regroup. He keeps texting and contacting me all the time?

He said we need to talk so that is good right? I just thought he would have jumped at the chance to move back home and he didn’t want to. Even though I know it’s not the right time for him to come back, it would make me feel good for him to want to! Just more rejection. He did say 2 weeks ago that he needs to give up drinking in order to get “us right” that’s his words.

I am thinking now that I should just wait for him to come to me to initiate chat?!

Many people would have given up by now in my situation I am sure. IF he agrees to give up the alchohol and continue with us, I am not sure I can handle this distance between us living apart and dating. It is so hard.

I don’t know what to tell family and friends they are all wondering what is going on.

Yes and it could take several weeks


Yes hard but harder for him. Drying out will be a long slog. He cannot just 'give up' the alcohol and he certainly cannot move back in until that is sorted.


Just tell them you will let them know once you have some news (polite way of saying none of your beeswax)

Thank you Living Well

BF sent me email Sat evening saying he has booked go karting for the weekend for us ALL to go go-karting. That’s for the weekend he has the kids not this weekend the following.

How do I respond? I was thinking I would love to but we need to talk first?

He has been texting and calling every day and I have just been polite, friendly and respectful.

I am actually quite surprised at Dr Harleys response I thought he would recommend to go straight to Plan B. Instead he was saying be friendly, warm and respectful and talk to him about his drinking. BF is being the same back, but all I am thinking is how could he abandon us like this? Why hasn’t he pushed to come home? He has cheated on me, left me, come back and I am still trying to work things out?! It is so humiliating. Dr Harley must have seen something there or wouldn’t have advised me to do this.

I saw my Mum today and she said I hope your having nothing to do with him? I said that we are working things out. She looked so upset.

I can’t understand most of all how he can sit in his house and be away from his children as much as this.

Most of all I cannot understand why I want this man back. He has deserted us basically.

Does anyone on this forum understand alcoholics and how that may affect relationships?

It was like I was hoping Dr Harley was going to recommend go back to Plan B.

I love the feedback LW on I will let you know when there is news. I cannot believe how many people ask me.

It’s like Melody Lane said, if he wanted you he would have moved mountains to be with you. Isn’t this all a bit degrading?

I am not sure I can cope with it. The one who is trying to fix the relationship.

I just don’t know how to act in the meantime until we have a talk???

I can’t help thinking that I should move on, go out have fun, go into Plan B, I would probably get more reaction.

I agree, he saw something. Presume he saw that despite everything that has happened, you still love one another. As you have two children together, it is worth doing everything you can to save the relationship but to do that he has to stop drinking and dry out.


Mum is protecting her baby. Sometimes that is not the right thing to do.


Mel is the best one to advise on alcoholics but addictions are all the same. The addict does whatever he needs to do to get his drug of choice. Letting go is very hard. The addict spends a lot of time fooling himself that he is not really addicted, that he can stop while in reality he is just on a temporary break. Addiction is a coping mechanism. The addict does not want to address the covert issues that it covers up because to do that they have to first become overt. That is why in-patient treatment is necessary.



You have never been in Plan B! Perhaps you start your conversation with him by explaining what Dr Harley told you. Be sure to bring up your negativism so that

In honestly think I should just plan to move on.

This is beyond humiliating. I think he is up to something, I just can’t help it. He wants to keep his own house and me.

Admittedly what woman would put up with me only seeing him a couple of nights in the week as he has been with me every weekend for the last 12 weeks.

It’s just weird.

I just don’t want to do it anymore.

BF coming over in the morning to take DD to school. Which by the way is not part of the schedule. I am trying the kind, respectful ect....

I cannot believe I am putting effort into this guy.

Such mixed emotions. I was feeling high after the radio session now I am crashing.

Melody Lane

Are you there? You have not posted since I crashed on Plan B.

Any insight on alchoholics??

I don’t want to be in this situation anymore. I want to move on.

It’s excruciating utter rejection and has been this way for 2 years.

I need to get a hold of my emotions - I am letting it rule my thinking.

I go down this destructive path of thinking he doesn't want me and focus on that.

BF came to pick DD up this morning to take her to school. He came in the house and stayed for 30 minutes chatting mostly to me. He looked awful, I asked him if he was ok? He said that when he lost his phone he had lost of all of his contacts, important work info ect... He said everything is going wrong at the moment, everything is such a mess and looked close to tears. I gave him a hug and he left. He has always been disorganised and losing things all the time, its one of the things that use to drive me mad when we were together.

He still hasn't suggested we talk. I guess he is fighting his feelings. He knows how I feel I suggested talking to him last week. He knows the door is open.

I acted as Dr Harley said, calm, kind and respectful.

HI MB Peeps

Wow what a roller coaster. I got in such a state about how things were that I emailed Joyce Harley and described the situation. That BF had not made any effort to talk to me or spend time with me since the fall out last week. I have told him several times that we need to talk and he has made no attempt.

Joyce emailed straight back and said I should go into Plan B. What a relief! I was really struggling being back in situation where he was blowing hot and cold and had not made any attempt to sort things out.

He came to drop of DD from school, took his shoes off and came in the house and sat on the couch. Bearing in mind I haven't told him that I dont want anymore contact with him. I said DS is ready for football, BF said I don't need to go yet!! I told him that I had packed a bag for DS to stay at his house tonight and he could home school him at his house tomorrow. I even offered to pick DS up from his house tomorrow afternoon (this made me chuckle as previously I have refused to even go there as I found it too distressing). BF looked shocked and surprised. Then BF said, I thought we could all go to the toy shop on Saturday after the sports morning, I said but thats not part of the schedule, we need to stick to the schedule? Then BF said ofcourse, then looked really sad and then suggested that we could go Friday?? He is not getting the message. I didnt want to get into the details in front of the children.

I feel so much better now, taking back the control. I am dark Plan B and planning to move on. IN fact I am actually looking forward to moving on.

When he came round tonight, I looked at him in a diffferent way. I am not sure that I even want him anymore. I had no admiration for him, not attraction for him.

Funny how I get more attention from him when I am in Plan B - what the hell is that all about?

Let the darkness begin and my healing start.

Oh and if anyone wants to listen to the radio show - I can email it to them.

Thanks for being here. Sorry I am such a nutcase.

So here I am in Plan B.

Already the requests have come through from the IM on changes to the kids schedule. It’s like as soon as he can’t have me tries to contact me more.

DS starts his new school tomorrow and BF wants to pick him up from school. No problem. I am sad about our situation it should be such an exciting family occasion.

I am in lots of pain which I am trying to self meditate. I am also trying to move myself into the train of thought why on earth would you want to be around someone who mistreats you this way? Dr Harley spoke a lot about thoughtlessness and making decisions without considering the impact on your spouse/partner.

We spoke last week about us having a talk. BF has had so much opportunity to do that. He made no attempt. I really don’t understand the guy he is so confusing. He hates plan b, hates not seeing his children all the time yet has not tried to talk with me. He could see how much pain I was in last week.

If only he hadn’t moved somewhere so public either. He has moved to a really busy area where he bumps into people all the time. Mostly my friends. He has brought so much shame on our family. I am so embarrassed.

Slowly starting to check out. I am tired of being mistreated. I have a wonderful friend who has been helping me through the last few months. Her and her husband are friends with us both. She has been really positive about BF coming back, then after witnessing the way he has been has said you deserve so much better. My husband would never be unkind to me.

Anyone out there?

I am bouncing around all over the place.

I need to GET HAPPY. I am free. I don’t have someone who gives me the silent treatment for weeks for raising an issue with them.

I really need to be more upbeat.

Let someone else deal with him?

Things I put up with to remind me;

Silent treatment for weeks
Lack of commitment
Weekly hangovers
Never been good enough
Rage
Name calling
Moods
Jealousy
Accused of having affairs
Nothing nice to say about me....ever
Playing the victim
Making mean jokes about me in front of others
No affection unless it’s for SF
Rolling over in bed and not even saying goodnight


I just found from my mother that when he dropped the children off to her once he said to my step dad “thank god that’s over 5 years of hell with that little minx”.

Comeon CoolB do you like being abused?

Are you really finished with him? How settled are your feelings?

The main problem I have had with responding to your posts is that you have always been all over the place - and I can understand and empathise with that, as that's how I was was for years during my H's affair.

The problem is that it's hard to give advice under those circumstances. We've given advice and you appear to agree with it, but then you act in the opposite way. Just on Tuesday you said:

You can't be in Plan B if he is coming into the house and sitting on the sofa.

I worry that your going in and out of Plan B, and never having really being in it, must seem silly and childish to him, and must irritate your IM brother as well. You've never shown BF that you will maintain your high demands unless he lives up to them.

I can understand still being in love with and not wanting the relationship to end for good. If that's how you feel, you need to take control and insist that he ends his drinking. There can be no relationship with him while he behaves as he does. When he has been dry for months you can date again, and when that goes well you can plan the wedding.

Which long-term strategy do you want to pursue? We can advise you on either of them, but you need to pick one and stick to it. If you're finished with him, take a deep breath and let the relationship go for good. If you would prefer to stay together, which would be a really good thing to do for the kids and if you love him, get him into rehab so that he stops destroying his brain and can think clearly and be a good husband.

Is most of this as a result of his drinking?

If most of it is then when he stops drinking, you date again. If there is any further appearance of silent treatment, name calling, never been good enough, nothing nice to say, moods, no affection - things that do not seem to be directly related to drinking, but to his attitude and (lack of) love for you, you know that this is as good as it gets and you say goodbye.

Actually, reading that list I'm sure hardly anybody would understand why you want to make this relationship work - but there must be something he does for you that creates the feeling of love. I can't believe that you keep trying with him just because he's the father of your children. If you've been free of the humiliating behaviour for months now while he hasn't lived with you, you must be happier; so why do you keep trying with him? Why haven't you said that it's over - weeks and weeks ago?

Thank you so much for posting Sugar. I have been an absolute wreck and I believe it is been a build up of home schooling 2 children, working and dealing with the separation. I have let my emotions rule me and acted immaturely. I must look silly and childish and have allowed things to spin out of control.

I am reacting to what he is saying and doing, rather than what is best for the children and I and part of a plan.

I have also opened up to a few people, and they have given advice and its made me into a confused mess.

It all started to go out of control 3 weeks ago when I got upset about BF taking the children out for the day and didn't deal with it effectively. BF took the children to see his Dad for his birthday, it ended up being a whole day out. I felt excluded and that BF was pushing me away again when in reality he just got caught up in the day. He phoned me a few times during that day to let me know he was running late. I am feeling generally very insecure about his feelings for me.

Dr Harley said I must learnt to communicate my emotions in a more positive way. When I got upset with BF he backed off from me completely, which is when I started to panic and get angry. It reminded me of how it was when we were together, he does not like any criticism or complaints at all, and could sometimes give me the cold shoulder for weeks on end. Then when I asked him about his lease on his house, he said well I need to keep it until we get us right. I know this is the sensible thing to do, but cant help feeling that it is another rejection that he is still unsure about me even though we spent 12 weeks together. I feel like he should be fighting for me and desperate to come home and it should be me saying lets wait. At first when he came back I kept my distance and kept things at a sensible pace, then I let my guard down and just wanted things to get back to normal so I don't have to worry or think about 'us' anymore. I got fixated on him coming home. I was finding the terms of living separately but spending time together very difficult. Not being sure if I was seeing him that night or that weekend. Worrying about what he was upto when he was not with me.

In those 12 weeks when I broke 'Plan B' there were no angry outbursts and he was trying to prove to me that there was no other women in his life. Dr Harley saw this very positively and I guess I was taken a back. Dr Harley said that he has met 2 of your conditions in your Plan B letter. Dr Harley said that this guy wants to be in your life and for the rest of your life. I am scared that it is giving me false hope.


I do still love him and do not want the relationship to end for good. I am scared that deep down he doesn't want me or he loves me but never thinks its going to work, and I am trying to protect myself from anymore pain or trying to come to terms with it being over as quickly as possible. I have been posting here for 13 months now.

Dr Harley said if you can do one thing for him it is to get him to stop drinking. That your BF should see this as a great act of care for him. That I should tell him that I will stand by his side and do it with him, offer an alchohol free relationship and that BF promises he will stop drinking now, and if he starts drinking again that he enters a rehab clinic. That it is something you do TOGETHER. If he doesn't want to give up drinking then you should move into Plan B. Dr Harley said I should give him his email address.

The day before I gave BF the silent treatment about going out for the day, he woke up from a hangover and said to me unprompted - I need to give up drinking and I need to do it to get us right. So he knows. Thats why I was so upset about him going off for the day as I felt we had made huge progress about him admitting his drinking as he has never done that before.

The problem is now, when he told me he was keeping the house, I pulled away and we are estranged again. Although he has been texting and calling a lot mainly about the kids. He also emailed me saying that he has booked a family outing and we should all go together. He is clearly in some sort of pain with us being estranged again.

I have offered for us to talk about 3 times now and he has not taken me up on the opportunity to do so.

I am not in any sort of plan, I have been in plan p for panic.

Please help me formulate a plan. Steady she goes.

I don't know if its a result of his drinking. There are some things on the list that he does when he is drunk. I don't have any experience with alchoholics or how it impacts the brain. I have asked Melody as I know she has some experience here and I have googled a lot.

Dr Harley touched on his lack of care and thoughtlessness of the radio show. He said that women are programmed to think of others and men aren't always programmed that way. That he has to learn how to take your feelings into consideration each time he does things.

Dr Harley said that generally speaking that women turn men into a more thoughtful person. That women tend to spend time when they are married try to turn their spouse into a more thoughtful person for her.

Dr Harley offered to counsel us.

Dr Harley has already given you the first thing to do. Nothing else can be done until this is complete:

Have you given Dr Harley his email address?

Thank you SugarCane

OK but BF and I are currently separated and not really dating. So it’s a bit tricky to have a conversation with him at the moment.

He just dropped off DS chatted for half hour gave me a kiss on the cheek and left. He is being a bit aloof with me.

He told me he has no plans this weekend and to let me know if I need help with the children.

That’s what I meant about what do I do now? I guess I just need to wait until he initiates some kind of conversation and in the meantime live my best life!

I find him so confusing. He clearly is distressed when we have little contact, in fact he contacts me more when I am cooler but he makes no attempts to start a conversation. This is what happened before when I was in Plan B.

Just want to clairify. You said that you were going back into Plan B (this was after you talked with Dr. Harley), but you obviously are not in Plan B, correct?

It’s all a bit messy BH. Dr Harley has advised to talk to BF to see if he will agree to stopping drinking, but to offer to join him in and do it together. BF and I were getting along well but we had a disagreement a couple of weeks and BF has pulled back, we are on friendly terms but really only exchanging the children.

I am trying to plan carefully next steps.

Hi Sugar

Do I pull him to one side and chat to him when he nexts drops the children off?
Do I wait for him to come to me?
Do I send him an email?
Do I go straight into Plan B?

I am really trying to manage my anxiety at the moment. I have been awake since 4am and have woke early practically every day this week. I woke up today and thought if I can just make it through today then it will be ok. I really need to pull myself together but hard on little sleep.

I understand Dr Harley to have told you to get the drinking dealt with first, and THEN begin dating. If he's not willing to stop drinking, your relationship should be over.

That means you need to have a conversation in which you tell him how important your relationship is to you, and how much you want to rebuild it so that you are committed to each other, and you treat each other well, and you are happy. This is for you because you love him and don't want to stay permanently estranged, and for the children because they will be infinitely more secure and happy if their parents are together, happy and committed. The problem is that you haven't been committed, because you never showed your commitment through marriage. He has also been unpleasant, bad-tempered and moody towards you, and you have been unhappy for a long time. You'd like to know whether he has the same hopes (of happiness and commitment) for the two of you, and if he wants his future to be with you and the children. If he wants the same as you, you have a plan so that you can bring that about. If he doesn't, or if he feels that things were okay as they were and he'd like to go back to that (moving in with you and not changing his behaviour), that's okay, but it isn't what you want, and if you don't have the same vision, the relationship will have to end.

If he wants the same as you, he must see that you have been unhappy in the relationship for most of the time you've lived together. His moodiness, silent treatment, put-downs and general indifference have hurt you, and they need to stop immediately. If he can admit that he did those things, and acknowledge that he actively hurt you, and if he will put all his efforts into un-learning all those behaviours and to stop doing anything that you identify as hurtful, you can begin again - and this starts with his stopping drinking for good.

So if he desires to commit, and accepts and acknowledges that his various behaviours hurt you and must stop, you tell him that the first stage must to for him to stop drinking right then and then. He must never touch another drop of alcohol. If he can't commit to that first stage, there is no point in discussing things any further.

If he can commit to that first stage, he needs to get help. I'm unfamiliar with how this would be done. You asked about MelodyLane, and I remember reading in her long history of posting that her ex-husband (the father of her kids) gave her the choice of going to AA right then and there or losing the kids. She joined AA on the spot and as far as I know, never drank again, without ever relapsing. However, I have read other people say that when an addiction is removed, the relationship often collapses as a result. I don't fully understand the dynamics, but it seems the addicted spouse either finds another addiction - which can be attending AA itself, or hooking up with someone that they meet there - or looks at their life and decides they don't like it, and becomes even more unpleasant to live with, or leaves. Ending the addiction needs to be handled carefully.

IF BF joins AA, it must be a single-sex group, and his sponsor must be male. Going into residential rehab needs to have the same precautions.

BF might try simply giving up without joining anything, and if that fails, then speaking to his GP for more help, or contacting AA. I've never had any experience of this so I'm not the best person to ask, but bear in mind that Dr Harley recommended that you do this together. You need to find a way where you can know every single day that he hasn't had a drink - and this does not involve his moving back in with you. You need to maintain a relationship where you can encourage him, check up on him, and keep the level of love you have from falling even further - not through dating, but through conversation.

Only when there have been months of sobriety can you move on to dating.

This is a long process and a wedding, and moving back together, might be a year or more away. For now, you are seeking commitment to that future, to abstinence, and to warm and loving conversation and behaviour without sarcasm, put-downs, sulks and the rest of it, along with good fatherhood.

Try never to bring up the affair in your talks. However, I'm unsure whether he ever sent that woman a no-contact letter. Sending one would be a step towards commitment. I would seek advice from
Dr Harley about whether sending one now (if one were never sent before) is necessary.

You didn't answer my question about whether Dr Harley has his email address. Ask him whether he is willing to use Dr Harley's free help, and explain how you feel his work has already helped you, and would bring about the best marriage possible because of the guidance it offers. Persuade him to at least have an email conversation with Dr Harley so that he can get you started.

Thank you Sugar Cane, I read this a lot over the weekend.

It all makes complete sense.

Dr Harley didn’t really clarify the realms of our relationship when he stops drinking just that I should offer to do it with him.

BF took the children out for the day as I hosted a baby shower at the house. He came to the house and mowed all the lawns for me and tidied up a bit outside.

I was at the house with girlfriends and I feel it’s difficult to know what to say about BF. Do I say we are currently separated? I am really embarrassed about it and feel so sad. I was not myself.

BF dropped the kids off and came in for half hour to chat. He was mainly telling me about what the children and him did during the day and asking about the baby shower. I asked him if he drank at the weekend and he said he had a few gins Friday and a couple Saturday but that was all. I was disappointed as I thought he may use this time to give up. He is acting all puffed up like a peacock and probably feels like he is in the drivers seat. He stroked and squeezed my shoulder and kissed me on the cheek and left. I put the kids to bed. He is putting on some big act like I am doing fine without you.

I asked BF if he would like to meet for lunch one day and he said yes that would be nice. So we are going to meet Wednesday. I can’t help feeling I am going to put my head in the lions mouth and I am going to be back in Plan B by the end of the week. I probably won’t even finish my first sentence without him cutting across me.

Maybe my negative thinking again but I can’t quite believe what Dr Harley said about BF wanting to be in your life for the rest of your life. It certainly doesn’t feel that way at the moment.

You didn't answer my question about whether Dr Harley has his email address. Ask him whether he is willing to use Dr Harley's free help, and explain how you feel his work has already helped you, and would bring about the best marriage possible because of the guidance it offers. Persuade him to at least have an email conversation with Dr Harley so that he can get you started.

Hi SugarCane

Dr Harley said about giving BF Dr Harleys email address to start corresponding. I will give it to him on Wednesday.

I have not been sleeping now for over a week. I am getting to sleep ok then waking up at 2/3 am and not getting back to sleep. I am feeling so abandoned and mistreated.

I am getting into a real state.

Even contemplated messaging BF to tell him I am in a bit of a mess. Even though not a good idea.

I am finding the whole thing quite traumatic. Both kids are at school all week so that will give me some respite.

I am concerned that I am going into the lions den on Wednesday.

DS came home from his day out with his Dad on Sunday, when DS came home he said mum when I am with Dad he seems quiet and sometimes angry and yet when he is talking to you he is all happy and bright. I am thinking that is because he is trying to show off how he is fine and happy without me.

I am so sorry I am on here all the time, I am just obsessed with trying to keep my family together. I do love BF too and so worried that he is slipping away through my fingers. I can’t quite believe I am still hanging in there? I am in no rush. DS said yesterday when Dad dropped him off can you both just get back together please? Silence.

I am terrified that all of how he has behaved is because he is simply not interested in me and he wants to go off and chase other women. He may even have another woman which is why he wanted to keep the house on, who knows? I guess he is free to do so as we are not living together and not married. He is constantly telling me what he is doing when he is not with me, even though I haven’t been asking.

He has been ambivalent about the relationship for over a year now. First off he complained of lack of SF and when that got better he complained that we did not get on.

As usual I had my morning low and then I got myself out for a run with happy music and then had a shower put some make up on and I am just about to do the school run. Feeling much better even on zero sleep lol.

Thank you all for reading and supporting me the crazy obsessive poster.

My suggestion for how you progress through the issues is designed to help you take control, so that you are not left wondering what he wants and whether he has other plans.

Suppose that he has indeed finished with the relationship. Suppose he really does feel better off without (the name he called you to your mother). Suppose he has another woman and that's why he has kept his own house. Suppose he hasn't got a woman, but feels happy living alone, drinking, and not living with someone with whom he feels he does not get on.

When you talk to him, you will find out how he feels now. His answer will end that part of your uncertainty. If he feels reluctant to build a new relationship, you ask him to consider whether he could have a good relationship with you and the children, or whether he'd rather end things now. I don't think he needs to give you a definitive answer that day; you could keep the conversation open for several days while he thinks about the future - and, we hope, corresponds with Dr Harley.

If he is prepared to consider a relationship - however reluctantly - you show him that you have a plan that will enable you to end the bad habits from the past and start anew. That plan requires as its first step that he stops drinking there and then, for good, and that he lets you help him accomplish this. You tell him that you've enlisted the help of an expert in both alcohol addiction and marriage - Dr Harley - and that he is waiting to hear from BF.

I imagine that this conversation will shake him up a lot. I don't get the sense that you've ever before insisted that he stops drinking, for example. I can't imagine that he will take to that idea at all well. I can imagine that he'll be quite upset, and quite belligerent. You need to ask him to calm down and listen, and to stop swearing, or insulting you, or whatever else he does. If he won't stop and gets loud and angry, you need to end the "date".

But the point is, you need to take control and stop agonising about why he hasn't done something, or said something, or about what he is really feeling.

We always ask people this but your thread is so long I can't remember: have you asked your GP for any help with stress? Anti-depressants would make a big difference to your anxiety and sleeplessness. I know that you badly need relief from those things.

Thank you for your support and time Sugar Cane.

I have no idea how it will go tomorrow. I can just do my best. I need to have a plan either way and now feel comfortable with taking control.

BF has been texting me lots, mainly about the kids but other stuff too. I received a text from him at 1am this morning, I think he may have been drinking.

I get a call from sister this morning, say that she is very worried as there is a video on social media thats concerning. When I tried to find out what social media site and who, she was just being very dramatic and saying I don't know but it is just out there and then said for god sakes be a mother CoolB! I was really taken aback when she said that and I am so upset and hurt she would say that and then put the phone down on her. She left me a nasty voice message saying how I didn't have the courage to answer her phone call and that she was letting me know as she thought I should know as I was the mother and she found it very worrying, and that she had been sounding board for me and not anymore and good luck with everything! Wow. I should never have gone to my family for support, I did it once before and it was thrown back in my face. Yes she had a point, but if she was so concerned she would have known what site and who posted it!! I was so panicked!

Anyway I spoke to BF and he had posted the video and made some [censored] and bull story how it was something to do with his new iphone but essentially the video was wrong and took it straight off. He was obviously drinking and got finger happy on fb. I have come off his fb so don't see anything.

It was a video of him and the kids jumping in the pool from the back showing the 2 kids bottoms.





I did go and get some anti Ds from the DRs before but they made my mouth so dry after 3 months taking them I stopped them. I am feeling much better this week, so I am going to give it another week and see how I feel, but I am sleeping now and working and the kids are in school so able to look after myself better.

Thanks all.

He is incapable of making good decisions when he has been drinking - as in anybody, but most of us control our drinking. His is regularly out of control. The first and most important decision he needs to make is to stop drinking for good.

If, tomorrow, he says that he is not interested in your plans and doesn't want to rebuild the relationship, you should tell him that he needs to stop drinking because you will not let the kids stay in his care at times when he is likely to drink (e.g. evenings). Tell him you will involve the family court if there are any more stupid decisions involving your kids.

I hope you won't have to say that, and that he'll agree to contact Dr Harley.

Hi Sugar Cane

I must agree I am now getting concerned about him
having the children overnight now. I am getting increasingly concerned his drinking is out of hand.

He made lies up about last night to cover his drinking and some ridiculous story about his phone and how they auto loaded the videos onto fb. He doesn’t even remember uploading the video when I spoke to him this morning. He looked full of shame today when he spent some time at the house picking up DS for football.

When he dropped DS off I was so busy sorting the kids out that I forgot to mention plans for lunch tomorrow. Then BF turned round and said would you still like to meet for lunch tomorrow? This is a good sign (unless he plans to do a formal dumping ofcourse). LOL.

Wish me luck peeps, I am going to need it.

You don't need luck; you've got brains, and you've got a plan. You need to bring together all your tiger mother instincts, screw up your courage and do this for your children.

I've absolutely no doubt that you'll do this.

Afternoon All,

So I went on the lunch with BF today. We met at a lovely restaurant down on the seafront - my first restaurant trip since Covid. He was there already waiting for me, and came over and opened the car door for me and said you look lovely.

We spent the first hour just catching up talking about work, the kids and what we have been up to. Then there was a gap in the conversation and I said so BF what about us then? He smiled and laughed a little but said straight away, we can't give up can we CoolB? I said no we cant, and that I would love to have a happy committed future with you, do you want the same and he said yes.

Then I said what Dr Harley told to me to say on the radio show. That I felt the 12 weeks we had spent together since lockdown had been great and that he had stopped having angry outbursts, that he had gone to great lengths to prove there was no one else and we hadn't argued once. That I was really pleased about this (DR Harley said to make a big deal about meeting 2 terms of the Plan B Letter). Then I said but there was only one thing that was a problem to me and that was his drinking, I then explained my concern for his own health, the impact that this has on the relationship, and how it was affect the children. He didn't get mad at all and looked quite sheepish, he didn't disagree with anything I said and he just nodded in agreement. I said to him that I want to have a sober relationship with him and the drinking has to stop now. I told him that I would give up drinking with him and would be there to support him through it. At this point he insisted how healthy he is (fitness and food) and that he is not alchoholic. I said I am not a professional but all I know is that it needs to stop for your own good, otherwise he would need some help.

He said he is miserable in the house, and that he spends most of his time there reading his books. He said there is nothing else that matters appart from you and the kids and I am not going anywhere. That his only concern was that it all goes wrong in a years time and we have to go through it all again so he wants to make sure we are right.

He did at one point, start stroking my face and my eyes welled up sorry couldn't help it. He said don't get emotional!

The only thing he said a flat out no to was speaking to Dr Harley. I tried to sell it to him but he wasn't having any of it. He said he would go and sit in a room and talk to someone, and that he had initiated counselling twice before. I guess 2 out of the three isn't bad. He also said that we need to talk things out more, cant we do more of that CoolB?

I also raised about when he went cold / silent on me a few weeks ago, and explained how tough I found this, and that treatment has to stop. That if he needs to go into his man cave he needs to communicate this. Then he said I shouldn't need some space from us "Cool B'. This part worries me and not sure how to handle this either as it feels like rejection.

I told him that if he stops drinking we can spend time as a couple and time as a family. We have to spend more one to one time if we are going to build up the relationship.

Now Dr Harley did advise on his radio show that if he stops drinking immediately that we spend time together dating. I may write to him to clarify? Dr Harley did say contact him if there was progression. Whereas Sugar Cane advises to waiting until he stops drinking before meeting up.

I know you might not think it, but communicating all that to him is a big leap for me.

BFs ambivalence about the relationship is causing me worry.

The fact that when everything was going well a few weeks ago and then he went cold and avoided me.

He openly admitted it at the lunch yesterday when I mentioned it, that he shouldn’t need space in a relationship. Then he is openly questioning his feelings for me.

I am sticking to the plan, but sometimes feel like saying I want to be with someone who is sure about me? Maybe have some time on your own to figure this out.

I just don’t feel positive about discussions yesterday, maybe it’s my negative thinking.

Plan B was so effective, I had never seen him make so much effort with me when we reconciled. Now I feel like I have been a but desperate and pushy.

Well done on saying all you needed to say, especially the stuff that Dr Harley coached you on. I think you did a fantastic job. I don't think you missed out anything. And the results were very good - he didn't reject your offer to rebuild, and he recognises that his drinking is harmful. You need to press on with getting him to prove every day that he has stopped.

Contact Dr Harley and ask him what to do. I don't know whether he would agree to writing to BF to start things off. Dr Harley will know about the ethics of contacting someone who did not request contact, who has not given his email address. Maybe Dr Harley can write to him via you - writing to both of you with the outlines of a plan. (Stop drinking, provide accountability, go to rehab if this fails, date, etc.) Does BF know that he doesn't needs to actually talk to Dr H?

Since he wants to talk things out with you, use that as an opportunity to talk about Dr Harley. If you feel that you could raise the subject with BF, tell him how much this would mean to you. Point out that your previous counselling hasn't worked, and point out the difference with Dr Harley's coaching approach. There would be no joint conversations in which you berate each other with accusations about past behaviour. The coaching focuses on identifying and eliminating problems and bad habits in your relationship today, and on building romantic love. It's about changing behaviour, not "counselling" (which usually involves delving into the past, rehashing mistakes and making both of you feel worse).

I don't really know what he meant when he said he shouldn't need any space from "us". A good interpretation would be that he knows his behaviour is lousy and he knows it needs to stop. However, if he is saying that the fact that he needs time alone is a reflection of the grief that you cause him, you could try replying that you're sorry about the behaviour that makes him unhappy - much as I'm sure you would choke on the irony. The thing is that you DO need for him to identify what you do that upsets him, and you need to train yourself out of that behaviour. But he needs to do the same, and he needs to stop the silent treatment, no matter what you've done. He needs to point out the behaviour that has upset him, and you can apologise for it and make amends if needed. You do the same when the situation is reversed. However, silent treatment and contempt are not acceptable, and they are destroying your feelings for him, and making you unhappy. Above all, he needs to make a commitment never to be the cause of your unhappiness (and you do the same for him).

We need to find a way for you to not wilt when he says things that make you worry about his feelings for you. You seem to take in the comment, and suffer a dreadful loss of confidence because of it. If instead you could see a complaint as being valid information that you can use to affect a change, so that you do not destroy love bank units, that would change things enormously.

I'm getting ahead of things here, because this is all something to be learned over the future. You can't just turn it around today. And of course, this also applies to him, and he seems to have a lot more work to do if he is to stop making you unhappy.

Isn't that the same thing, though? We're both saying that when he stops drinking you can begin dating. If that's today, you can begin dating today.

But if we did say different things, you must ALWAYS take Dr Harley's advice. My attempt was only to help you interpret the advice that I understood Dr Harley to have given you, not to give advice of my own. The regular posters on this forum would never seek to undermine anything Dr Harley advises.

You did incredibly well. I think I recognise in your relationship a similar dynamic that affected mine. In my case, it was because H is older (that mattered at lot when I was only 19), better educated (university/not university at that time), brought up in a wonderful family, as opposed to my own chaotic mess that taught me nothing about good relationships, and that fostered no self-confidence. You need to learn to recognise that your needs are valid, and that your likes and dislikes about his behaviour are valid and must be voiced. You need to gain confidence from all the things you've achieved in your life. It's really hard to do, and takes a long time, but you must train yourself not to feel stupid for wanting what you want.

You don't really know what he meant by his statement, and you don't really know why he went cold. You do know, however, that he drinks too much and makes terrible decisions. You should try and let those incidents drop. Stop focusing on them. It doesn't really mater how he felt yesterday or a few weeks ago; what matters is how he will feel about you quite soon.

If you stick to the plan, you WILL be with someone who is sure about you. You will identify and eliminate love busters, and you will help him stop drinking, be a good parent and live in a happy home (in a happy marriage).

This IS negative thinking, and you are very wrong. You were not in the least desperate. It is arguable that you were pushy - and pushy is good! We want you to be pushy. You stood up for what you need from him, and you are giving him the chance to identify what he needs from you. He can be a good husband and father, but only if he stops drinking, and stops his hurtful behaviour (and the two are largely connected).

Thank you so much for your support Sugar Cane. This made me a tad emotional when I read your responses and much more up beat.

I had a wonderful surprise this morning when I dropped the children off at school, BF was waiting outside and we were all really pleased to see him. We did the school drop off together which felt wonderful, he knows how much I love doing pick ups and drop offs together. He said perhaps we can all do tea together after school? This is great as its BFs turn to have the kids this weekend. I will join them for tea and then I have made plans to meet a GF for dinner.

I will try and convince him on Dr Harley. I am sure I can make some progress here.


Yes I agree, I do focus on the negative and need to do some internal work to change this. He did bring one thing up at the lunch which is how it annoyed him I had run out of money mid month and that I was waiting for all my refunds to hit. SO I can make sure this does not happen.



Thank you Sugar Cane. It must be a similar dynamic to me. I had extremely chaotic childhood, I was the youngest of 4, domestic abuse between parents, divorces, step parents, mother mental health problems, multi house moves but I never wanted that to define me. It obviously has some effect, as I crave security, its probably one of my biggest emotional needs. BF is 10 years older had a very settled childhood, was doted on. He is extremely confident, built a successful business ect...Dr Harley advised me that I need to communicate my emotions positively. I am working on this every day.

I was the youngest of 4 but I thought I was the youngest of 3 until I was 28, when I found out about the first born, to my schoolgirl mother.

Physical fights between parents which, as far as I can tell now, were always initiated by my unstable mother.
Ditto


Big time.


Many, including being homeless for a while after the separation and divorce, and being housed in several different emergency local authority places, one of which was condemned and due to be demolished. It had no bathroom and an outside loo on the shared landing.

Ditto about not wanting that to define me. I left school at 17, then went to night classes, then to university aged 20, then professional study. Long before I came across Harley I made a decision to put my horrible upbringing behind me, model my wife-hood and motherhood on the friends that I admire, and to learn better behaviour from wherever I saw it, even if it was from TV programmes. It took years to learn not to shout at the kids and not to be generally just horrible at home, but I practiced it and learned it, and my adult kids both still live at home (London house prices - although my daughter had just bought a flat and is in the process of moving out) and they get on with me really well. I craved security in having a proper home, to the extent that we've been married and lived in the same house for 32 years. I sought security in other ways, too; always having a large amount of money saved, good pensions and so on.

Our past does not have to define us, and we can use the lessons learned to work on being the person we want to be.

8.5 years older, and ditto.

It takes years of practice, and you have already started. Well done.

That is a lot of similarities. So funny about the house - the family house that I live in is where I want the children to grow up, I never want to move! Also money security is so important. I started a paper round at 12, had jobs through to when I left for Uni at 18 and then went onto win a successful graduate position in London. So I am pretty much financially independant. Again, I always knew I seemed a bit different from many friends around me and then probably had a big change in my late 20s / 30s about the person I wanted to be. I looked around for inspiration from friends, did a lot of boundary work (read that Cloud & Townsend book) and definetly became a better person.

BF has been contacting me lots throughout the day. This makes me so happy. We met again after school and did the school run together. We bumped into a few of our friends. We did bump into one girl who had previously made a derogatory comment to BF after she found out about the affair, and they had a huge argument in the street. BF saw her today and made a comment to me, and I did say that the lady had a very bad time with a similar personal experience. I wanted to say - well thats what happens when you have affairs, people look on it poorly. I didn't though as I know I shouldn't mention it.

We went for a drink after school then BF suggested we all go for dinner together. I mentioned that I already had dinner plans, so wouldn't be able to join them. He looked a bit disappointed, then sent me short text complaining about the lack of 'smart clothes' for DS and asking me to drop some more clothes round for the kids on my way out. He use to get very jealous when I went out with my girlfriends, but I didn't know he would ask me to dinner and didn't want to be sat home alone all weekend. Also, I did notice that BF was drinking mineral water at the pub - usually on a friday its a few G&Ts. This is good.

BF and the children are all going out on the boat overnight tomorrow, this makes me so sad as this is my favourite thing to do with my family.

As things are going so well, I am feeling pretty good and enjoying this feeling for awhile.

But you'll go out on the boat one day in the future. In the meantime, enjoy your evening out tonight.

I urge you to keep in contact with Dr Harley about monitoring BF's drinking. It's very good that he drank mineral water today, but how will you know if he drinks over the weekend? I wonder if it's okay for you to make an agreement that you can ask at any time, and he will tell you the truth.

Obviously, he can lie, but I suspect that if he does, you'll catch him out soon. He doesn't seem to be that good at being drunk. I think you should keep in contact with Dr Harley about this, and about dating generally. Also, is it okay to spend family time together? Could you go out on the boat with them all, during the daytime next time? (Overnight seems like a bad idea, because of the sleeping arrangements.)

I just don't have a good feeling at all in the pit of my stomach. All that I seem to focus on is that BF has extended his lease for another 6 months, I know that this is the right thing to do but I just feel that he should have been actively pushing me to come home? He has not done this once. This takes me back to his relationship ambivalence. Also, I have been outside his house a few times now and he seems to have it all very well set up for someone who is just there temporarily. It is so confusing though as he still hasn't changed any of his addresses and still put down my address on our sons school records. He is also still paying for works to be done on our house.

Last night when I saw BF he asked if I wanted to join them all for dinner and I said I already had plans but I should have told him that I was meeting a girlfriend for dinner. He then walked in the house very quickly. I then received the not very nice text complaining about the clothes I left him. I sent a later text saying that I hope you are all having a nice evening with a kiss and I received a note saying the kids were asleep and a thumbs up. Then he left a instagram post on his social media saying;

"Early evening at The Tavern eating fish pie, kids fish & chips, G&T, J2O’s & now on the sofa watching the new Scooby Doo movie ‘Scoob’.. best Friday night in months... what lockdown Scoobs"

This also had a picture of all 3 of them sat in his house. This is the first time he has put a social media post of him in his house. Also a double whammy that this is his best Friday night in months, slightly insulting for all the Fridays we have spent together.

I think this is a reaction to me going out.

I think I should just ignore his post and don’t let him needle me. I have got to sort out that negative thinking!!!

We are all taking the children go karting tomorrow, I am lookIng forward to it.

I also forgot to say that BF told me yesterday that he has paid ten thousand pounds of the mortgage off. He clearly wouldn’t be doing this If he didn’t intend getting back with me.

Them all of having fun without me hurts I am not going to lie. However, I have been fine I had a lovely evening at my girlfriends last night. Today I gave the house a clean and have been gardening all afternoon. This afternoon I am getting my hair done for the first time since lockdown. I am going to have a night in on my own with some nice food and a movie.

Not sure what next steps are?

Rather than trying to read the signs, which, as you say, are contradictory and confusing, just see how things pan out in the next few weeks. You've only just begun this new journey, following your conversation on Wednesday. You never asked for commitment and stated your conditions clearly until then. You did send Plan B letters that stated conditions, but your behaviour was completely at odds with what you wrote in them.

You're starting again now.

It does seem as if he was upset, and his later behaviour seems unnecessarily unpleasant. The "G&T" part was not acceptable.

You could ask whether he was upset after you turned him down, and if so, why (do not assume you know how he felt). It might be worth explaining to him that you had already planned to go out with a girlfriend, and that you do not intend to socialise with men. You could suggest that if you two are to give your relationship another chance, it would be a good idea to agree with each other about meeting up together with the kids, and going out alone with friends. You also need to tell him that he has to never drink again if he wants to be with you.

If you were married and living together, we'd urge you to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA). This is based on the understanding that everything you do potentially has an affect on your spouse's feelings for you. If you are to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness, you need to never do things that upset each other. That means that, in your general lifestyle, and when it comes to specific events and issues, you need to agree enthusiastically to actions, separate and joint.

That means that if your spouse is unhappy with you going to pubs or to dinner with friends (without him), you wouldn't do it. You would work on become each other's favourite recreational companions, and you would date each other several times a week, and when all that was done, there probably wouldn't be either the time, or the attraction, for Friday nights out dining out with friends. You would come to an enthusiastic agreement about how to spend Friday nights together. You would also be able to find a way to see your best girlfriend alone, in such a way that it does not make your spouse jealous and does not compete in terms of happiness with spending time with him. (And of course this works both ways.)

You are not married and not living together, but you are working towards those things. And while there is no obligation to practice POJA while dating someone, seeing whether someone is willing to be considerate to your feelings is a good way of weeding out those are are poor prospects for marriage. Now, you are asking him to demonstrate extraordinary care about your feelings by being faithful, giving up drinking, expressing dislikes constructively (no sulking and silent treatment) and so on. You, in turn, need to care if he's upset about your going out to have fun without him, and any other issues he brings up. The one thing you shouldn't do is give him the impression that he can "do one" if he doesn't like you as you are.

Thank you Sugar Cane. I think I do need to chill out a lot! I actually really enjoyed my time alone today, I think I did a pretty good job of not reacting to things.

Dr Harley kindly responded to my questions to;

1. Do we keep the children in a visitation schedule between our two properties?

Yes. It should be as if you are both divorced and dating in an effort to reconcile.

2. I am still concerned about his lack of commitment, I could go through this process and he still does not want to marry. any way I can test this?

The test comes after he has proven to be consistent in keeping his other commitments. The marriage issue is about whether or not you will be living together with your children or shuttling them back and forth for the remaining years you are raising them. And don't sign a prenuptial agreement.

That makes things clearer. He is one clever man!

I need to start enjoying life a little more even through all this turmoil,

I appreciate your copying Dr Harley's answer here. As you continue to post, his answers will help us to ensure that we coach you in accordance with his advice, rather than inventing advice of our own.

If we knew how to save marriages, we would never have screwed up our own!

Basically I could be here for another 10 years posting! I bet your all real excited to hear that!! Lol.

Amazing place and my sounding board.

Thank you

I hope you all had a good weekend.

Just a quick update. BF came over yesterday morning with the children, it was so good to see them all after 2 nights away.

When BF turned up on the drive he got out the car and gave me a kiss on the lips. We sat and had a couple of hours in the garden just chatting the 2 of us whilst the children watched TV. We were filling each other in on the weekend, and I told him about my pre booked plans Friday night, and how it was a quiet dinner just my girlfriend and I. I also told him how I had a quiet day Saturday planning tennis then doing some gardening in the afternoon. Sunday afternoon we all went go karting which was such fun.

2 main positives about yesterday is BF asked me to sit down and make some plans for over the summer dates for him and I to spend time together and dates for us to spend family time. The other thing he kept telling me about was his lack of drinking over the weekend and how he took the children for dinner Sat evening and he drank mineral water, I didn't even have to ask! He looks so much better already and I so prefer him when he is not drinking. I think he is really taking this seriously. So far so good.

I am so happy. One thing I do need to sort out is my highs and lows. LAst week I got into such a state and really wandering about my hormones? I seem to get hit with a real low mid month. Something for me to sort out?

Anyway Happy Monday all.

This sounds very good. How did he respond when you told him about Friday? Even if he didn't speak, did he look as if he appreciated the information?

It would be good practice for you to tell him conversationally about your plans to spend time doing whatever. If you were married and living together Dr Harley would encourage you to lead integrated lives where you do not plan activities without taking each other into account. You wouldn't make plans and then announce them; you would spend most of your recreational time with him anyway, and ask him how he would feel about your doing whatever. While you are separated ad building up towards marriage you could practice this kind of behaviour, showing him how you expect to live later, and how fulfilling that lifestyle would be,

Each time, tell him that you're pleased when he says he didn't drink, and tell him from time to time how much better he's looking. Show him that you're pleased to make plans to spend time together. You're trying to let him know that you want to be together as a (married) family, and that the way to achieve that is to both change the behaviours that made you unhappy in the past.

Remember that the changes that you are asking from him are non-negotiable, and that you need to see them over a sustained period before you contemplate marrying and moving in together. You don't need to tell him that unless something forces you to; this is for you to bear in mind every day, so that your confidence grows and you're not let down again.

If you find the highs and lows continue over the next month, consider talking to your GP about a change of anti-depressants. In had to go on them a while back, and a low dose just took the edge off my worrying, broken sleep and general anxiety. I took them for about 2.5 years and came off them very easily.

Morning SugarCane


He looked like he appreciated the information. When I told him what I did on the Saturday he said that sounded like a lovely day. During this whole process he has been telling me what he has been doing and where he has been the whole time. We are both on a running app together Strava and I often see when he is at his house going out for evening runs. Wen we were living together he really only wanted to spend time with us all as a family, he use to ask me not to plan evenings out on a Friday as he looked forward to coming home and spending time together. We just didn't get much time together as a couple. Towards the end he avoided couple time which was horrible.

Its strange, I almost like I feel he is pleased that I told him to stop drinking, all these years and I have never mentioned it. How is it possible to get like that? Its like I am showing him care and he appreciates that. Dr HArley said it will be the greatest act of care you can ever make. Its amazing how much alchohol can actually change someones personality?

This weekend, is my weekend to have the kids. BF has asked me if I would like to go away with him on the boat with the kids overnight on Sunday. I would really like to go but not sure if thats a good idea overnight? I am not considering having SF with him.

BF is still contacting me lots throughout the day and I am practically seeing him every day even if its just a short visit for 30 minutes.

Still massively worrying that I am going to invest all this time and attention and its not going to end up where I want it to be. Worrying again lol.

There is lots of questions to this news arrangement / dating phase... such as

Should I make my own plans for the weekends I have the kids?

Do you think he is now complacent as he now has his “me time” and the kids and I?

Has there ever been anyone in a similar situation here on MB?

Also jobs....my current job is good pay flexible around the children and a lot of home working. However I am at home a lot and quite lonely under the new situation. Thinking I should go out there and get a new job which will mean more commitment / less flexible but more sociable?

I just can’t believe it is 6 months since we have been living appart. He has just signed a new lease for 6 months. He must be happier in his new situation. I miss him being in my bed every night. He doesn’t seem to miss any of this???

Can’t help wandering what I am doing waiting around for someone who is so complacent about me. Hanging in there on this and sticking to the plan.

I miss my son tonight too . He didn’t want to go to dads tonight.

Can’t help it but ringing in my ears is what Melody said - he is getting the best of both worlds now.

OK temporary low moment yesterday. I am still on PLan. I just find it hard thats all . Just coming to terms with living apart and dealing with this new situation.

I know I am much further along that this time last year.

This is so hard, I am just saying.

We went to do the school pick up together again yesterday. We picked the children up and took them out on the boat after school and then had dinner together. It was lovely.

When we were having dinner and the children played in the garden BF told me that he had a melt down that morning that he is really upset with himself that he had gone through 3 brand new phones this year and had either lost or broken them. That he keeps losing things all the time and forgetting stuff. He blamed it on his age but I think it’s probably to do with his heavy drinking over the years. DR Harley said on the show you may see signs of it already.

Then we headed back and said bye to Dad. DD said Daddy can you sleep at our house tonight? Then said I think you two should go on honeymoon. Clearly DD wants us to be together breaks my heart.

We all said goodbye BF gave me a kiss on the lips.

I think you need to continue asking Dr Harley for answers to your questions. The ones about making your own plans for the weekends, and going away on the boat on Sunday night, would good. The problem for me is that I haven't come across any cases like yours, where the couple has separated but there is a plan to date and then marry. As a rule, we don't get unmarried couples with children on this board. Unmarried people here might have children of their own, but not together, and not having lived together and then separated. One of them is usually asking about the wisdom and practicalities of getting married. This is the first case that I've been involved with where we're trying to get an unmarried couple back together, and I don't know what Dr Harley would advise unless you ask him. I'm only interested in coaching you according to Dr Harley's advice, not my own. (I haven't got a clue!)

The only experience similar to yours that I have seen is where the couple is married and separated, with a view to getting back together. The fact of the marriage makes a big difference to the intention to get them back together - as long as there is no abuse. Both spouses want to rebuild their marriage. Dr Harley has coached couples like that on the private forum. In your case, BF was not committed to marriage (otherwise he would have married you) and it's hard to know whether he's committed to it now, as you are. It could be that his original lack of commitment has not changed, and that's why he has been happy to renew his lease and does not seem to be desperate to get back "home".

I don't think you can second-guess what BF is feeling, or what the future will bring. He might indeed be enjoying his single life, and moving back together might bring back the horrible behaviour that led you to separate in the first place. That has happened to a couple recently on the private forum.

I think all you can do is follow the advice that Dr Harley gives, accepting that things might not work out. It's either that, or walk away now. Fretting about it isn't going to change BF's behaviour and attitudes.

Thank you Sugar Cane everything you are saying makes total sense.

I think things with BF are going well. I need to stop focusing on the lease of the house or him going cold.

Since we had the chat last weeks things have been great. He has stopped drinking, making lots of plans for couple time and family time. I couldn’t ask for more really.

Like Dr Harley said, just follow your Plan B letter.

Nothing’s worth having if it’s not worth fighting for.

Have a good weekend all.

CoolB.

So glad Sugar Cane is helping you.


You could see the extension of the lease as an act of love. He wants to find a way to make this work and knows the time is needed.


Has he agreed to go to AA? He is not going to be able to shake the addiction unless he gets support. Anyone can stop for a while. Then a trigger comes along and it is back to the beginning again. Gently guide him to the next step.

Thank you Living_Well

I hope all is good with you and thanks for all your help over the last year.

Things are going really well with BF. He can't get enough of me really. He is over at 'my house' all the time, messaging and calling throughout the day. We went away on the boat at the weekend for one night and had the best time. That felt really good to be away from the house and everything in our own little bubble. He was lovely, and kept calling me 'the mrs' how ironic. He has still not been drinking and he was invited out on a boys night this Friday but has declined and said he would rather be with us lot than out damaging his liver anymore.

He has not agreed to go to AA, although I did say to him would he agree to go if he went on another 'binge session'? Dr Harley said that if he stopped drinking great, but if he started to drink again and go on another binge then he had to agree to rehab or I should go into Plan B.

Everytime I meet up with friends or family it brings it all back though my situation, I do feel a lot of shame and embarrassment around his cheating and splitting up. Then I feel anger bubbling up towards BF for putting us through all of this. I hide it though in front him. It would be interesting to hear from the vets how they dealt with this side of things? I do feel that I have kept a bit of distant from friends and family during this separation.

I suppose the question is how much did you tell friends and family about what was going on? Also did you feel embarrassed about it all??

Did he say why?


What did he say to that?


You do know that AA and rehab are two different things? AA holds meetings where people support one another's efforts to stay off alcohol. Rehab is far more serious; you are an inpatient for up to three months with intensive therapy. It is for those for whom AA is not sufficient.

Does he know that he can never touch alcohol again? Even Christmas pudding is off limits.


As Sugar Cane says, your situation is highly unusual around here. 80% of shack-ups break down so what happened is not surprising. This new pathway will either take you to a stronger, healthier relationship or it will draw a line under it. Either is better than what you have now,

Hi Living Well

He has not agreed to go to AA yet - but if he starts to drink again then I will ask him to. If he does start to drink again Dr Harley advised to go straight into Plan B.

Dating is continuing to go well. BF is being very attentive and kind. He has not had one angry outburst with me this year. This is huge progress. He also is constantly contacting me every day.

I do feel myself 'more in love' with him, rather than just desperate to put the family back together again. We are spending lots of family time together, not as much just the 2 of us. Although we have some time planned for this over the next few weeks. We are spending the day together this Wednesday and we have one night away in a couple of weeks.

I do feel quite lonely though and do feel there is still some stuff missing. For example if I was dating someone new I would expect more romantic words, like him giving me compliments or telling me he loves me. This is missing. Also, when the kids are in bed during the week then he could spend the odd evening with me.

That anxious feeling still sits there and I feel a lot of internal anger / anxiety about being in this situation.

Thanks all

Does he know you feel this way. Have you told him?


Completely understandable, you have been through some tough times and it will take a while for new positive memories to replace the older negative ones. In the meantime you are being cautious as you have been burnt more than once.

But I wonder if part of the anxiety is coming from the fact that BF has not agreed to go to AA. You do not say why he has refused. Does he know that a single slip up would be the end of everything? Dr Harley recommended (if I remember it right) that you gently guide him into a recovery programme. It is much easier to kick an alcohol addiction with the support of a sponsor and group. Why push a rock up a hill?

Hi Living Well

No I haven’t told BF this yet. I will do though.

It’s all been going well and I even feel BF falling really in love with me again. He is contacting me all day every day, I am seeing him daily and we are enjoying each other’s company.

I feel myself acting so differently with him, I am much warmer towards him than I was before. We were in a really bad place before cold and angry with each other most of the time.

My anxiety about everything has started to go away. I now actually feel a bit sorry for him that he is missing out on so much with his children. I also feel like he really doesn’t want to live apart from us all. The anxiety is mainly to do with his ambivalence and hot / cold behaviour towards me.

I seem to be growing in confidence day by day. As
My confidence and positivity grows he seems to want to be closer to me.

Hi all

BF and I have been spending lots of family time together.

Tomorrow we are having a couple of days away on our own.

I still feel that he is a bit non commital, they are no social media posts of me (just him and the kids) or mention of coming home. Even silly things like pictures of me on his Facebook or Instagram.

I saw a post one of his friends posted of him and his wife with a caption ‘love her’. I mentioned this to BF seeing how he would react and he just grunted! Then I just said to myself he loves you in his own way!

I can’t help feeling how full on he was with me for the first few years of our relationship and how different he is now.

I just don’t want to have to ask him to tell me he loves me or be a bit romantic about me. It just feels forced that way. He use to all the time in the first few years.

BF stayed over Friday evening and we watched a Netflix show together. At midnight I wanted to go to bed and he wanted me to stay up with him and watch another show. I went to bed and BF watched one more and I had to go back in the room and get a glass of water. When I went back in the room I thought he dropped his phone on the floor as if he was hiding something. I asked him and he said no! Now I concerned.

I wish I didn’t feel so I insecure!!!! I am getting tired of feeling this way and can’t help but feel that he is a huge contributing factor.

I sometimes wander if my insecurity killed the relationship in the first place? It seems to me the more confident and independent I am the more he seems to want me.

Cool thanks for checking in! Do you listen to the radio show? Friday they talked about needing to start with love busters or it’s hard to feel the deposits. Also the suggest you to say “I love it when you...” to let your partner know what makes deposits for you.

Thanks New, I did try and look into the radio station but I don't think they have loaded the program up yet!

BF and I went away on our own for 1 night last week. I was quite nervous before I went and got myself into a bit of a state. I can honestly say it was great. We spent 2 days on the boat swimming, sunbathing and chatting. We even saw a pod of dolphins. I said to him you really know how to have a first date and he laughed and said stick with me kid you will be alright.

He opened up to me a little on the boat, saying that he feels that he has gotten very intolerant of things over the last couple of years. That he feels some of this has come with the success of the business. He also said he couldn't be bothered with anyone anymore and he wouldn't care less if he never saw anyone else ever again apart from me and the kids. I do find this quite strange. Maybe it is some sort of sign of depression?

I also notice that BF likes us to be on the boat a lot as a family, I think this is because it is neutral territory. I feel that he does not like staying at the house. Which gives me little hope he wants to come home.

A male neighbour popped round to the house on Saturday evening when I was on my own to borrow some gardening tools. I made him a cup of tea and we made polite chat for about 30 minutes.

When I told BF the next day he got really angry saying this is how women can get attacked and how he wouldn't let another woman into his house. Also said that it was bad of me to let another man in the house, in a house we are paying for. I felt like saying well you don't want to be here, but I didn't.

Something is just 'not right' with BF and I don't know what it is. He is very irritable and argumentative with people around him. I also feel that he is really hard on DS and constantly puts him down and has unrealistic expectations of him. BF even admitted it how irritating he finds DS. DS is only 8 and yes he can be a bit of a day dreamer and challenging at times but very loveable and affectionate. He has fallen out with the football coach over something and didnt bother showing to DS football game on Sunday. He tried to argue with me about something on the boat and I told BF that I wasn't going to argue with him.

I remember before when we were living together this is what he use to like towards me. Its like he has this need to isolate himself a lot. Shut himself off from everyone.

Sometimes it is like I have had an affair or something and is pushing me away. He is making it clear there is no one else, and every day he keeps coming to see the kids and I every day. However, he is keeping me at arms length. No words of love and no signs of commitment. Maybe he is scared it will all fall apart again? Or maybe he just doesn't feel that way?

He is certainly very territorial about any men coming in the house.

Sorry if I seem up and down. I do come here to vent. No one else sees this side of me. I am not even opening up to friends or family now. I just keep it all a secret and vent here.

Cool, you are right to be concerned. What about getting back in touch with Dr Harley? Tell him about these odd behaviours. He knows far more about this than any of us. List everything now so that you do not forget any of the details.

I have every sympathy with him here.

Why would you let a man into your home to chat for 30 minutes? Why make him tea? You could have been cheerful and helpful but guarded.

You might see BF as being a bit extreme when he talked about being attacked, but it's certainly possible that you were sending out "interested" signals during that chat. Of course, you're free to do that, but is that what you want to do?

Is this man married? I really hope you didn't upset a wife by doing that. I would be most discomforted if 1. a woman invited my husband in for tea and 2. he accepted and stayed for 30 minutes.

I don't know whether this is a sign of depression (sounds likely) or withdrawal from alcohol, or something else, but the point is, unless and until he behaves like a man in love, who wants to be with you and who is happy with you, you won't be getting married, and he won't be moving home. Do you agree?

Thank you for the tip Living Well. I did contact Dr Harley and he came straight back to me. He is such a kind man not sure how I can repay him?

This was his response:

His irritability could have a lot to do with his unwillingness to give up his independent behavior in return for having a normal relationship with you. But since you have had to put up with his angry outbursts throughout your relationship, maybe that is something that he has had throughout his life. Stick to your plan.

This makes a lot of sense. Dr Harley was very much follow the plan and continue with the situation as is until he addresses everything in the plan including marrying you before living together.

You were right SugarCane this was the wrong thing to do. Thankfully he is not married and believe me I have never entertained a married man, I couldn’t think of anything more repulsive personally.

To be honest is what just nice to have someone to chat to whilst I was sat on my own. We had a quick gossip about everything going on locally and there was genuinely no flirting involved, but inappropriate. I won’t let it happen again.

I absolutely agree. The problem is a part of me is starting to give up.

Also I have a sneaky suspicion he may still be drinking.

That's one of the easiest ways for women to fall for men - through "nice" conversation. We can fall easily for someone who talks to us and shows an interest in us, and this is one of things that husbands often let slide. Lack of conversation in their relationship makes many women miserable. Having conversations with men would be fine if you want to meet someone new, since you are not married - but untie yourself from BF first, please.

But if you want to give this your best shot for a while longer, don't invite men in for tea and have 30-minute conversations with them!

I wondered about the drinking. It might be irritableness from giving it up, or he might be coping badly with giving up and sneaking a few in when alone. In that case, he might be irritable because he can't drink when he's with you.

Do what Dr H says and stick to your plan, until you're sure you want to give it up. The point is not to give in and let him move home when he isn't making you happy.

Thank you Sugar Cane I hear you

Still in Plan but feel myself slipping into withdrawal.

Another possibility is that he is beginning to realise how hard it is to shake the addiction. What about gently suggesting AA again?

Hi All

All has been going exceptionally well with BF. He has started showing a lot more affection, being very kind and caring. I have felt a lot more secure and feeling like we had really turned a corner. Until.....

The problem seems to be now the kids, and I am really annoyed after a conversation I have just come off the phone with him. BF has taken DD out for a day whilst I get some work done dropping her back in the afternoon. When she was back I was planning on taking the kids out for a treat tea then getting DDs hair cut.

Then BF rings to tell me that he wants to keep DD for the day as he hardly ever spends time with her on his own, all of this is going on with DD in car. DD shouting in the back ground I want to stay with Daddy which I find very distressing. To be honest right now I hate him for putting us in this position. He should have discussed it with me not in front of DD.

On Monday evening again the kids were suppose to come home after spending the day with him and then he asked if he could keep them for longer. I really didn't want them to as they had a busy day the next day and wanted them to get an early night, BF just said who cares about play group the launching of a ship is more important than that. PLay group is something I organise for the children. BF doesn't like play group for them as he said they are too old for it now. I like it because they get free play and to see all their friends, it something I organise with mum friends for them. I reluctantly agreed to BF keeping the children and then when I went to meet up with them all later I felt like a spare part. He hardly said a word to me, not how are you hows your day. We walked to the boat with him a few metres in front of me. Kids also made derogatory comments to me obviously picked up from what BF had said to them, as things they repeated things like who pays for this car mummy? Daddy. Then why couldn't we scoot mummy, just because you turned up in your car.

He does seem to be very controlling around the kids. He is obssessed about my son doing this or the other activity (football, , fishing, boxing, cricket, tennis) the poor child is worn out. I am constantly having to shield DS from BF as I think he puts way too much pressure on him for 8 years old. He is now pushing DD to do football. I am sure its a control thing. DD isn't even interested in football, she only says she is when BF is around.

You know I even remember when the kids were born that he really struggled with not being able to take the children off on his own, that he put pressure on me to stop breastfeeding because of it. He is so independant.

I am not sure I can continue like this. I am angry right now and will take time to calm down. What sort of man puts the women he loves through this? In my mind he is using me for more access to the children.