Hi, I am brand new here (wife) and wanted to post and introduce myself plus write a bit about why I'm here. I'm *very* open to suggestions or advice; and I should say that we are seeking professional help as well, via marriage counseling which I will instigate tomorrow morning.

Both of us are extremely motivated to work on these problems and resolve them, but we are at a standstill as far as working it out without help. Our relationship is the number one priority for both of us, and both agree that we will do anything it takes to fix this. (You'd think we'd be able to figure this out on our own but after over a year of trying... we can't. We need help).

Hubby and I met, fell in love, and married in 2004. We each had late teenaged kids - young adult kids from our prior relationships who for the most part did everything they could to try and break us up, but it didn't work, and now we enjoy adult relationships with most of them. Some of them still hold a grudge, but we're hopeful they too will come around. If they don't, that's ok too. He has 10 grandchildren, I have 1. We rarely see them.

Our plan was to retire early, and we've both been working hard at our professions (60+ hours a week) to make that happen. In retirement we'd like to travel, and invest in real estate until we are no longer able to do either. We are nearly a perfect match for each other, and very happy overall.

We've come up against a couple of problems that we just can't resolve, so I thought I'd post what's going on.

#1 problem is that I have a 21 year old son who surprised everyone with what we now know is a late-onset brand of OCD, with psychotic features. He was "normal" up until age 20 and then it hit and took him completely down. He has a genius IQ, was a football star in high school, one of the most popular kids, good looking, had offers to do some modeling, had a bright bright future which I thought would end up with him in medical school at Harvard or law school at Yale, and a successful happy life.

Out of all of our kids, he was the brightest star, so this is particularly difficult for me to take. He now can't function on his own and lives with us. He is on several medications that at best seem to mask his symptoms, and my biggest hope for him now is that he can some day work (maybe delivering newspapers or something) and live independently from us. I cry about this almost every day, when I look at him it breaks my heart. He remembers of course how he was in high school and is tortured over why this has happened to him. I'm not sure if I'm fully communicating the loss I feel, but I'm going to move on with the story.

So my DH is basically pissed that this one kid - my son - gets extra help and attention from us, whereas the others we basically helped them a little bit but then expected them to live their own lives independently. The fact that the others are functioning as normal humans doesn't seem to come into his line of reasoning. Also my son who lives with us never once tried to sabotage our relationship early on, whereas most of the other kids did.

The bottom line is he wants me to dislodge my disabled son from our home and just let the chips fall where they may. Too bad if he ends up homeless. Too bad if anything worse happens to him, like he commits suicide. And of course I can't and won't do that.

He asked me the other night if he demanded my son leave what would I do? And I told him I'd either take a 2nd job to pay for his apartment and living expenses or I'd move out with him until he could function on his own. So that angered DH quite a bit and he says I'm picking my son over my husband then.

I think that now he is realizing that this kid is just going to be living with us for a while, and that's it. Meanwhile, please remember that my heart is breaking every day I am alive over the loss of my son, or I guess the potential future for my son as he was before this mental illness took over his life.

I feel so disconnected from my husband, I just can't believe that he really wants to throw this kid to the wolves and kick him out. Needless to say, our relationship is suffering and we haven't had sex in... embarrassed to say I can't even remember when? Maybe a year ago. I'm consumed with worry and grief, and he is just wanting his wife back I'm sure.

When I said my relationship with my husband is my number 1 priority I meant it, but do I really want a relationship with someone who would throw a mentally disabled kid out onto the street? Um, no. I believe at this point that that's not really him... he's just frustrated and wants us back to where we were.

Maybe counseling will help us, however my experience is that most counselors are sort of clueless, so I'm doubting any good result will come out of it. I'll try anyway, just at a loss at this point.

Oh also, we have excellent medical insurance through DH's work, and he is refusing to add my son onto his insurance so that this can be resolved. I'm not exactly thrilled with him over that one. He's so pissed he's just refusing to add my son on, where he could get real help. Now I am relying on the local community clinic, and they help a little, not much. That's it, thanks for reading.

~K

Where is your son's father?

Also struggles with OCD - the Hoarding variety. He is about to have his parent's house (where he lives alone literally amongst his garbage for free) condemned, at which point he'll be homeless.

I can NOT send my son there.

Dr. Harley says that blended families have an abysmal rate of divorce--about 85%. Much of the problem is because couples in marriage with children who are not their own have a tough time following the POJA in matters surrounding the children. POJA is essential in creating a great marriage.

No sex for a year? Your H might be having a real problem with that, as SF is usually one of the top two needs of a H. He very well could be feeling resentful and neglected and therefore even less inclined to work with you regarding your son.

Did you and your H agree enthusiastically that your son move back in with you? If not, then that's a big problem. I know you feel compassion toward your son and wish your H did, too, but the truth is that most men have a hard time raising someone else's children.

Your son has come between you, and your H is no longer your top priority, by the action of bringing your son back into your home in spite of his wishes.

The solution is to brainstorm until you can together find a solution you can both be enthusiastic about.

Listen to these radio clips on blended families.
Radio clip on blended families
Segment #2

To add to this great posting I wanted to say that bereavement can come in many forms. For you it is the loss of your golden child and for DH it is the loss of his dream - of a peaceful retirement built with you alone. Life throws us curve balls. Respect his grief.

Have you examined other options? Have you investigated halfway houses for disabled adults where your son might be able to live? I can understand your desire to care for your son, but it sounds like you are doing so at the expense of your marriage.

Agree. Dr. Harley talks about how in blended families the marriage must come first. This is why blended families have such a high failure rate.

Listen to these radio clips of Dr. Harley telling a couple exactly that.
Radio clip on blended families with children
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Oh he does have a real problem with it. and I agree with you, however there are other reasons that the "no-sex" is happening, and he's far from fault-free. It's a separate issue, and frankly he's lucky I didn't leave him (he agrees with me on that). We are working on it.


No. I "cashed in" some negotiation points I had from a few years ago when we had to put up with various BS from his adult kids. This is probably the problem right here; thank you for pin-pointing it for me, but there's still nothing I can do to fix it.


That is correct, however I have no other good solution. I've researched for the past year, on where else my son can possibly go, and there's just nothing, mostly due to our income being higher than the limit the State or any agency will accept for helping with anything.

We can opt to pay for an apartment for him, and pay all his expenses, if my H just can't hang with this situation as it is. We've talked about that, and in the end decided to save our $1200 -$1500 a month and try to make it work this way instead.

I believe that our marriage is strong enough to survive this until my son can live independently. We've been through some ridiculously-tough times already that would have broken most couples up, yet we're still here. More importantly we're still in love and willing to do whatever we need to to make our relationship work.


Been brainstorming non stop for over a year, no other options are out there. Neither of us is enthusiastic about this by the way, it just is something we have to go through, similar to as if the main bread-winner spouse lost his or her job.

Huge stress, huge problem, but you get creative, suck it up, and work through it. Those unemployed folks are not very enthusiastic about their options either.

Thank you for your response, it actually did help.

Thank you to all who responded here, I think it's a good idea if hubby and I look into taking the courses and get coaching through this site instead of traditional marriage counseling. I like the theories and techniques I've seen so far.

I appreciate your comments, and links to the radio shows, etc.

Have you read POJA? Holding out on SF for a year to punish your H is not MB let alone POJA.
POJA

And "sucking it up" is definitely not Marriage Builders. I'm sorry for the stress you and your H are under, but this is a fantastic place to have a fantastic marriage. Welcome to the marriage builders family.

If you can afford it I would call the coaching center ASAP.
Coaching Center

This is a wonderful place to have a fantastic marriage. Stick around and learn the concepts. Basic Concepts

You said in your first post that your adult kids did the best they could to try and break you up. Why did they do that? Why were they so opposed to your union?

I wanted to recommend another article for you.
Caring for the Children means caring for each other

Not yet, but we plan to start the entire program on his next day off. Sounds like I should start there with POJA. I already have the emotional needs questionnaire printed and ready to go.


I wish it were as simple as me just deciding to "Hold out" on SF but at this point there are medical, hormonal, as well as the underlying emotional issues interfering with a quick fix.

And just for the record, I don't really agree with the concept that one spouse can betray the other, and then somehow magically it's the OTHER spouses fault for "Withholding" or "Holding Out" when intimacy is damaged. At any rate, hopefully something here (probably coaching) will help us to resolve this as well as the issues with my son. We are both wanting to fix the issues.


Maybe not, but things happen in life that you don't plan for, and don't count on, and sometimes life sucks. You can either stick with the relationship and deal, and find help like I'm doing, or just give it up and divorce. That's what I meant by "sucking it up"... dealing with bad circumstances and staying in the marriage. It might not be marriage builders, per se; but unfortunately it *is* life.


Thanks!

I would either do the coaching or the online program (where your given a coach to guide you).

There are so many wonderful items on the website and they are all free.

Start with some reading until you decide which way you want to go.

Glad you and your H want to work on your M. One more question. Why did your children try and keep you and your H apart?

Pay close attention to POJA and PORH and UA. Dr. Harley says if you're doing these things you're on your way.
Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

Because of money and control issues.

They were all in their teens/ early 20s and were counting on being able to continue an agenda of manipulating 'single dad' and 'single mom.'

He and I both work very hard and are successful, whereas both of our ex-spouses when we were married were quite lazy, habitual adulterers, and drug users. The kids (his as well as mine) were used to us feeling guilty about working all the time and not being around to parent as we would have liked, so we'd each dole out money to them, to alleviate our guilt.

This is in fact what brought us together, we had almost identical past home lives, and we consulted each other about our kids all the time. When we married, we decided to change the way we were doing things, so no more free ride for the kids (or ex-spouses). They were quite angry with both of us, and tried to break up the relationship.

We were so *so* in love, we just thought that our children would be happy for us. Didn't work out that way. They are coming around now, and we enjoy most of our relationships with them. A couple of the more stubborn kids are still angry and not talking to us.

Also buy the book His Needs, Her Needs.

Along with the other reading please start with this.
Four Rules for a Successful Marriage

Have you went for medical teatment for these hormonal issues?

A year without SF is a huge problem. Have you done any snooping to find out if your H is possibly seeking other sources for his SF?

I understand you feel it is a medical issue but I find it difficult to believe he is just avoiding meeting this need period.

It is difficult for your husband to feel conected to you without SF. If he is not interested in SF with you this is a huge red flag.

If my husband was having a medical problem preventing him from being able to have SF, he would be obsessed with the problem and beating down the Dr.s door, as i suspect most men would, something seems off about this to me.

If your son is 21 now, he was 13 when you married, and 11 when you dated. Yet you said you each had older teenage kids when you met. How old are ALL the kids? All 10 of them.

Yes, I'm currently being treated for another hormonal issue that was more urgent, first. My dr. doesn't want *any* added hormones right now until that's controlled. If the urgent thing is not dealt with, it requires surgery (cauterization) for uncontrolled bleeding, so a pretty big deal.

I've played around with HRT on my own, anyway, against medical advice, to try and bring a balance and get some sexual desire back, but no results. I just have to wait, so does my DH, and btw he doesn't know about my playing around with hormones or he would be really upset that I'm messing with this, and he's willing to wait for it to be resolved.


There's zero chance of that, I do check after what happened in our relationship, regularly.


I don't understand what you're saying? I'm refusing to meet his needs? or he's avoiding something? We are not having penetrative sex, however his needs do get met via other methods, just not as frequently as he'd like.


He's interested, I'm the one with the issue.


Sorry... but what makes you think he hasn't?

We aren't a couple of idiots, we're both actually pretty smart and we have tried mostly everything you can think of. He's been in to the doctor countless times, as the traditional pharmaceutical treatment is no longer working.

I'm wondering if he's feeling guilty about the betrayal, and this is why the medical inability. Again, we just have to work through it.

I have to say, the problem he's having coincides nicely with my not wanting sex. At all. Not even being sarcastic. I'm not even upset about it, however he is quite worried and feels not only guilt but also .. what... I guess incapacitated? Or less-than the best husband? I really have no problem with it, other than it's on the back burner and we need to address it. So in MB lingo, my SF need is very low and his SF ability is also low right now, so it's less of a problem than you may think.


Almost sounds like you're accusing me of lying. Hope it's not that, and you're just thinking out loud. I came here to try and get help, not invent dramas to post so I can get attention. That was really uncool of you to insinuate.

Practice RH. Hiding AMA hormone therapy is pretty whack.

Stupid, even.

Wow, demanding much?

You're writing style is really ***really*** annoying, and hopefully looking at the length of time you've been here others have already told you that. But experience tells me that you may be totally different in person...

Yes matter of fact, I thought of this after I posted... not everyone was in their *late* teens. My 2 youngest were *young* teens or "tweens". Sorry for not being 100% on target with that CWMI. My bad.

Most of the more serious problems were being generated by kids in their late teens, from the time we dated, to the time we married, most of the way until today. If that clarifies for you.

So anyway here's the ages:

His
41
38
36
32
30
26

Mine
28
26
21
20

Well I'm brand new here, but this sounds a bit like a disrespectful judgment. Am I right - is that what this is? Thanks for the illustration.

Partners4life

What do you mean about this? Was there infidelity in his past?

Yes.

It seems you may have never recovered from his affair?

MB has a plan for that.

Read this How to Survive An Affair

A few more questions.

When was his affair?
Was the OW married?

Does he live his life with complete transparency?

I'm sorry for your pain. You also might want to notify the MODs and have this moved to the SAA board.

Your.

Lol.

Your lack of grammar is etc.

Good luck!

CWMI, I don't know what your problem is, but I'd appreciate it if you'd just discontinue commenting after any of my posts, as well as don't PM me, or have any contact whatsoever with me in any form. Of course I also will not be commenting after your posts, nor contacting you in any way.

Hopefully I don't have to get the Mods involved to make that happen.

When was his affair? Exactly when our problems (hormonal, medical) started, one year ago. Also my son moving in coincided with the ending of the affair, and he was rather eager to do anything to make me happy. Like I said earlier, I cashed in some negotiating "chips"

Was the OW married? No

Does he live his life with complete transparency? Yes

I don't suppose there's any way we can quit talking about this huh... I'm guessing that this is why we're having issues, I'm not over it. I am still so pissed off. You guys have no idea... all the chances I've had to cheat and never once have I acted on it. Never once.

Of course you aren't over it but Dr. Harley has a very successful plan for this. If it's followed.

First his affair needs to be exposed to your children and family.
He needs to write a NC letter for your approval and to send.
He needs to answer ALL your questions about the affair.

You need to build an affair proof marriage using EP's, complete transparency, NC with OW for life. He needs to have boundaries and you need 20 hrs of UA time a week filling each others top EN.

Read these.
Exposure 101

There are reasons for affairs but never excuses.
Carrot and Stick of Plan A

Are you and your WH up for this?

I know I'm giving you a lot to read but all of it will help you.
Thread to Newly Betrayed Spouse

We won't be exposing it to family, our relationships with our kids are tentative as it is. The affair is over, period. I don't need anyone to pressure him. We both understand what happened, I just can't let go of my anger. My anger is actually harming my physical body at this point. His guilt is harming his physical body.

Other than the exposure, yes we are up for it.

Thank you for the links BrainHurts, and thank you for not being judgmental.

Has he answered all your questions about the affair?

How much UA time are you getting?

Read this Requirements for Recovery for an Affair

Dr. Harley also recommends AD's and or Anxiety meds. Can you do this with your current med issues.

We've been where you're at.

Listen to this radio clip of Dr. Harley telling a WH what he needs to do to

recover. Radio Clip on a WH on what to do to get back with his wife 3:50 mark

Yes, and I thought that the initial crying and devastation was all there was... I didn't realize the anger stays and stays.


Well if you don't count watching TV together... let's see I guess 12 - 15


I do take an rx sleep aid as well as anti anxiety that work fine with the hormones. Dr. wants me in therapy as well, which I just found out today, and that is fine I'll do that via insurance and then hubby and I can do MB program via the site here, and coaching.

No TV doesn't count.
Policy of Undivided Attention

Are you still talking about the affair?

What did you think about that radio clip I posted?

Is this his only affair? How long did it last? Who was OW? How did they start their affair? How did you find out?

The anger is very normal. It will get better and your M will be better if you follow MB.

No, I was not suggesting you were lying, I apologize that this is how it seemed. I am sorry about your medical problems also.

I understand exactly what you are saying about the anger and resentment that lingers and even builds over time after an A. My H had an A several years back, and I went through that as well. Eventually I went into full withdrawal. My anger and distance went on for many years.

I can only imagine how hard a blended family situation would be even without the issues you are dealing with. My H and I don't always agree when it comes to our own children.

Have you thought of contacting Steve Harley for marriage coaching, or perhaps you could send an email to Dr. Harley, to be answered on his radio program?

I am sorry if you have felt attacked here, or maybe you feel some responses are going off track, but everyone that has responded to you IS trying to help you.

Hi Partners4life, welcome to Marriage Builders. I have been reading through your thread and wondered if you could answer a few questions to help me understand.

1. has your son actually been diagnosed by a professional? OCD is typically not a crippling mental illness that would require one to drop out of life

2. why can't you have sex with your husband? I am unclear on this

3. what was done after your husbands affair to repair the damage in your marriage? Does he ever see the OW in any capacity? Does she live close by? How long was the affair and how did you find out?

It's very difficult; I burst into tears just reading your posts on this thread, same exact thing happens whenever he and I talk about the affair. We avoid talking about it now. In fact, I'm extremely uncomfortable talking about it to you even. I plan to address it, details etc in therapy. I can cry in there.



I agree with what Dr. H says on it, and most of everything he mentions we've already done. There are no addiction issues, to porn or anything else. I snoop on him regularly, with his knowledge and consent, and encouragement. I'm just stuck with not being able to let go of my anger.



It's his only affair, and I don't want to go into any more details about it, other than it's over and we're repairing things now. Sorry.

Most betrayed spouses (BS) refuse to expose and often run from MB. Please keep in mind that (firstly) exposure and other things (no contact letters, extraordinary precautions) are the only way MB is successful in marriage recovery after an affair.

Whether or not you believe his affair is over, it is recent and it shows that he is ready to go outside your marriage to meet his needs. On this path, it WILL happen again. And again. Until divorce. You not meeting his needs for sex and him not meeting your emotional needs in regards to your son is literally chipping your marriage into pieces.

You can't keep going like this.

He has said that you are putting your child ahead of your marriage. At this point, you are. Likewise, as his affair was only a year ago and you guys are 'lovebusting' constantly, you don't see anything wrong with this either (yes, I'm aware your son has major problems but asides from that).

It sounds as if your son has the same condition as his father (no surprise there as it is often genetic as well as environmental). Since his condition will probably not fully change (managed perhaps but nobody is 'cured' of this), do you think it is possible to see a happy marriage in your future if you will always put your son ahead of your husband? This is not a judgment as to whether you are right or wrong, but just a practicality of it.

Thanks!


Yes, he's been diagnosed, and yes it is OCD. His particular variety features social anxiety (can't function around anyone but family - and this is the one that usually costs him his job), severe depression (suicidal), and psychotic symptoms (hearing voices etc)

UPDATE ON THIS is that his latest mix of meds is working much better, and he got a job just last week which he's gone to twice, and was able to complete 8 hours of work each time with no issues. I asked him about how he's dealing with his more serious symptoms now and he said it's getting a little easier.

Because OCD tends to be a waxing / waning disease I'm trying to not get too excited about this. But for today, for this week, he seems to be getting better.


At first it was because I developed a hormonal imbalance that caused me to not stop menstrual bleeding, where I bled for over 90 days straight and my Dr. was suggesting the surgery to stop it. A second Dr's opinion was to start hormone therapy, which I did and which worked. This was about a year and a half ago (?) roughly. Anyway, after that 90 days, we were sort of used to not having sex, I guess, and it was rather difficult before that anyway due to ED issues. We were growing apart anyway, and I was glad that we couldn't continue with trying to have sex.

I've stopped the hormones twice in the last year and a half, and the issue comes back, so for now I'm just stuck on hormones I'm assuming until I finish with menopause (5-6 years).

I *can* have sex with him, if we choose other methods than penetrative... due to ED. Drs have tried to treat the ED, no success. So I'm just sort of sick and tired of those methods. It's a ton of work for me, I'm really not interested in "receiving" (hormones and/or anger) and I miss the connection we had during lovemaking. The no penetrative thing has been happening for several years. So trust me I'm sick of the alternate methods. I'm over it. Big time.


He's done all he can to repair it, he encourages me in my snooping, I have all his email and computer passwords, I know about all credit card activity, phone activity, I know how much cash he has and where it goes. He leaves me his phone quite frequently, and takes mine instead. (I never could figure out why he was doing that, now I'm thinking it's so he can let me know I can monitor his phone anytime and/or he wants to make sure I'm not going to have a RA).

So he really goes over and above to make me feel secure in what his activity is. He is relentless in telling me how beautiful I am, how much he loves me, how attracted he is to me, how he'll do anything to make our relationship better, and how sorry he is. He also demonstrates commitment to me and our marriage by helping me with my son even though obviously he would rather not be supporting this kid right now.

I run a business from home, I'm home all day, so I get all mail, I get all home phone calls. If he's going to be late with a customer at work he calls every single time, I mean.. there's just no way anything further is happening.

In an earlier post I said I really don't want to go into any other details about the affair, but it lasted a few months, I was "surprised" with it - physically witnessed them together, and no he does not see her at all now.

Her BF threw her out of their home after the affair, for other reasons (she refuses to work) and she was working on finding another BF to pay the bills last I heard. I don't know where she lives now.

Hi Alis, I'll start by saying that unfortunately I disagree with most of your post. Here's why:


This does not pertain to me. There is no exposure needed now, and instead of running from MB, I did the opposite. I came here and found it, and am continuing with it. Sorry but I really am not concerned with what "most" couples do. We are currently doing extraordinary measures, as well as the program online. We will likely do coaching as well.


I totally disagree here also; and to clarify: He WAS ready to go outside the marriage a year ago (and did), not IS ready (and will), today.


Maybe you missed the several posts I've made regarding the MB measures we are taking now. No one is continuing on without changing anything.


Correct.


I disagree with your statement that we are "lovebusting constantly", and you are also incorrect in saying that I don't see anything wrong with our situation. Again, I'm here seeking help and we are both moving forward with doing the MB program.


It's not going to be "always" - as nothing ever is "always." Right now it's the best solution. And some good news, as of last week my son has made some progress, so I'm hopeful that he will continue to get better.

Where are your former spouses? Did the two of you begin your relationship before you were divorced?

No, you are incorrect. Disrespectful Judgments on this site refer to statements between husband and wife - not from poster to poster.

Are you kidding me, CWMI? You're really going to get into a pissing contest over language?? How silly of you.

Tell us what you're doing during these 12/15 hours per week.

I'm an English major. If someone is going to insult me, I prefer it be done with proper grammar.

I don't give a [censored] if you're a drum major. Being obnoxious makes you look ugly and, well..obnoxious.

Unless your goal is to look ugly and obnoxious. Let me know and I'll leave you to your posting.

I won't be posting on this particular thread, the OP asked me not to because she found my writing style annoying. I was fixing the grammar in her complaint about my writing. I have a *weird* sense of humor about such things. Good luck, marital!

But you are not doing the MB program. You are picking and choosing what *you* think matters. You are a biased participant.

You are downplaying infidelity (was it even mentioned in your first post?) in your marriage and not following the basic step #1 of Harley's marriage recovery (exposure).

I'd find it annoying, too, if you had your highlighter out, ready to 'mark up' her grammatical errors! How annoying of you, CWMI. This site isn't a grammar site - it's a marriage building site. Not every poster is a master of speaking perfect English. (And for all of your mastery of the language, I'll bet I could nail you hard if we went one-to-one, CWMI. So don't be thinking you're all that, K? Stop grading the posters.

She was annoyed before that post, marital. Who is thinking who is all what??? How about if you HELP this poster, and leave me out of it?

I believe I've already addressed your concerns about your annoyances. Now, SCOOT! SCOOT!

Hi Marital.


They are currently each wallowing (deservedly) in their respective disasters of a life.

My ex is a full-on hoarder, and his children are too disgusted to visit him due to the living in garbage situation that he has going on. His refusal to pay bills, along with cheating on his taxes has left him with garnishments out of his check that leave him with apparently not enough to live on.

I know about the taxes because the IRS had me prove that I had my kids living with me, and was supporting them, and had a court order for custody. He was illegally claiming my kids every year for 4-5 years until they caught up with it. I know about the garnishments because my kids found out and told me. By the way, he also managed to successfully avoid paying child support, but that's another story. I was actually just glad to be rid of him.

My hubby's ex is an ex-cocaine addict, and I use the term "ex-addict" loosely, as family members have told us she's been lurking around her old dealers, looking for drugs as recently as 4 months ago.

Both ex spouses seem unable to maintain any sort of romantic relationship, both are alone. Both have disasters for financial situations also, as both my H and I were the only ones working or paying any bills when we each were married.

I'm not exactly sure why this question is coming up... but there you have it.

Oh yeah, question 2..... We began our relationship with me having been divorced over 3 years, and hubby having just recently moved out and filed for his divorce. Neither of our spouses was victimized or cheated on, other than their gravy trains left, if that is what you are asking?

Not sure about all the whys of these questions I'm getting.. please keep in mind that I'm brand new here, getting used to talking about stuff I'd really rather not.

I'm trying.

Hmmm. I added it up and I guess it's more than I thought. Looks like UA is 21 hours a week or so.

On his days off, we hang out together doing whatever we decide... farmer's market, go out to eat and see a movie, go into the city, go to the beach, go to the park.. whatever we feel like. We rarely *don't* go do something fun to relax on his days off, unless we have a household emergency we have to deal with. (about 8 hours a week)

In the evenings when he gets home from work (I plan my day around his schedule.. so I work when he works), we have dinner together and usually unwind and watch TV. (dinner - about 6 hours a week)

We record stuff we both like to watch when he gets home. We love to watch old black and white movies on Turner Classic Movies.. that's our fav. And it's weird that we both love them, we each were fans of old old movies before we even met. (TV - about 12 hours a week doesn't count)

And we do household stuff sometimes like paint a room, or deep cleaning, or fixing stuff, or gardening or yardwork where we work on a big project together. We enjoy hanging out and doing stuff together. (about 3 hours a week)

Late at night in bed we talk about our day, or what's going on with us, or the kids, or whatever we feel like talking about. The talking helps us feel closer, in the absence of sex. We generally hold hands or I'm laying in his arms while we are talking. We joke and laugh a lot too during when we are in bed talking. (about 4 hours a week)

You are correct, I'm not doing the exposure, there's no need for it. Exposure is asking others to help you straighten out your spouse and get him to quit seeing the affair partner. I don't need to do that.

I agree with you that I've been downplaying the infidelity... I'm actually just realizing via this thread that it was such a huge issue for me still, and that it's likely the cause of most of our problems. I still don't need exposure. But thank you Alis, I appreciate your opinion on it.

Actually not. Exposure is required so others can hold your husband accountable. It is a key part of recovery. The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable. If you are in the MB online program, then surely your coach has explained this?

For what possible reason would he want to keep it a secret?

here

Partners4life, I am very confused about why you are here. You came here asking for advice and got lots of advice. You have routinely rejected and dismissed most of the advice. [you always know better, of course]

Most is from people who have fully recovered marriages. It doesn't sound to me like you really want advice at all, but rather are seeking validation of your pre-formed opinions. IF that is the case, why are you bothering posters here by asking for advice you know you aren't going to take?

I don't expect you to take this advice either, but the big miss in your marriage is the Policy of Joint Agreement. You are in the habit of making unilateral decisions and beating win/lose agreements out of your husband. ["negotiation chips"] If you read much on this forum, you will realize that is a renters strategy that leads to resentment and incompatibility. The fact that your husband makes sacrifices is not a sign of committment but the foolish strategy of a renter. People who sacrifice keep score and when the score is not even, resentment and eventually selfish demands are employed to even the score.

Have you read about the POJA?

So, P4L - your husband wasn't divorced when you started dating? But, had 'just moved out' and 'filed for divorce'?

So, you were not both divorced when you met? But, he was still married when he met and started dating you?

Actually if you read back, most of the advice is not MB-specific, but pretty pedestrian and advises us to do things that are quite obvious, which we (and anyone else would have) already done. I probably am not being as patient or grateful for that type of advice, as I should, since I did come here asking.

BrainHurts gave me some excellent help that I'm following up on, which I've thanked her for, but of course you haven't mentioned that here because maybe it doesn't fit in with *your* preconceived notions about *me*.

The other posters just ask a bunch of questions... and I'm not sure if it's just a morbid curiosity or what. But I answer and then get judged or attacked, or whatever, and that's fine, it shows who they are and who I am. Apparently the rules for this community are that new people can be attacked, and then everyone calls it something else. Also ok - maybe the whole story will help someone else.

I've had to ask one poster to quit attacking me, publicly on this thread. No "advice" was given by that person, and of course you haven't mentioned that here either. That's fine, people can read back over the posts and see what's what.


That is incorrect. The whole issue is extremely difficult for me to talk about, and I'm very uncomfortable with it. I'm not seeking validation of anything at all.


Actually, I've already stated that this is where he and I plan to start, along with the emotional needs questionnaire.


Not sure how your getting that I'm in the habit of doing this or anything else... but for this one situation you are correct, I did do that. Hopefully when I get started with POJA I can adjust the way I've been dealing with this. So far, I had no tools to use to get through this situation, now I have them.

Partners4life, like I said in my post, you are not here to listen but to get validation for your pre-formed opinions. And you did it again in your response to my post. I view you as unteachable after reading through this whole thread. You continually ignore and dismiss everything. Someone like that can't be helped.

That is why you are having trouble with the other posters. It is very poor etiquette to come on a board, ask for help, and then rudely dismiss those who take the time to help.

One question that kept persisting as I read through all of your dismissive and argumentative posts was this: Does she argue like this with her husband? Does she exude this same know-it-all, dismissive attitude with him?

And lastly, we have so many people here who really do want help, it is a shame to see you waste people's time like this when you and I both know you are not here to learn.

He was not married, he was legally separated, had filed for divorce, and moved out of the home when we started dating.

(Unless you want to call that married, which at this point nothing would surprise me - anything seems to be fair game when folks are looking to judge or attack here, including typos and grammar).

She has not judged you at all. She asked you a very important question. Do you want to know why she asked that or did you just want to run with your pre-formed judgement of her question?

I'd love to know why she asked me that.

By the way, it might be helpful to say something like "In the MB program we do this and this... and one question we use to determine that is this: _____" <--- insert question here

So these questions don't sound like attacks to someone who's been consistently attacked on the boards.

Just a suggestion.

Perhaps posters should submit their posts to you first so you can tell them how to word their posts to suit your personal taste?

And if you have been attacked, I would certainly notify the moderators. I haven't seen any such attacks but I have to admit this is the only thread I have read.

I guess I'll find the answer myself as I go through the program.

When I do I'll come back and post it on this thread so new people can see what it is.

Are you going to call the coaching center or do the online program?

That is probably a good idea. Hopefully you can get the help you need from the MB online course.

We're starting with POJA (badly needed) and the emotional needs questionnaire on Tuesday. We were both actually just talking about where to go from there... I told DH about the coaching, and we are discussing. We are able to get traditional marriage counseling through our insurance, but like I said, I'm not too confident that it will help.

I like this program a LOT, (which is why I'm sticking around through everything that people are throwing at me so far).

I'm not sure on the coaching yet, but I'd like to do it instead of, or even along with, our insurance-paid counseling.

I will keep you updated BrainHurts, thanks.

I would strongly suggest the MB coaching. They are wonderful in giving each one a plan and coaching you, instead of regular counseling that can be devastating to marriages.

If you do choose reqular counseling at the very least Dr. Harley suggests this. How to Find a Good Marriage Counselor

Just to let you know, Melodylane and CWMI are two of our best posters that know the program inside and out. They can make you think, which has been a wonderful help to me.

If you do decide to go with the MB coaching keep us updated, ok?

P4L, the reason we are asking questions is in order to have a complete understanding of your situation. Many times posters don't include critical pieces of information because they either don't realize its importance, or they don't want us to know something that may be crucial to their issue. And that last part may be the case here, since our questions have confirmed that your husband was still married when he began dating you. That's important for us to know.

You are out of line for presuming for even a moment that the posters who have heard the same kind of story many, many times have even an ounce of 'morbid curiosity' regarding your sitch.

I disagree that much of what has been asked or offered here has not been MB based. People have just been asking you to reveal more details and information to get a clear picture of your situation to help YOU.

I can't speak for the others here, only for myself, but I suspected something deeper was going on here then just the situation with your adult child, because I too have an adult child with mental health issues, but this has never been the root problem in my marriage.

You have been very defensive from the very beginning. You stated in your original post that you were "*very* open to suggestions or advice" this has not been the case. You have accused the people trying to help you of "morbid curiosity" seriously? You think your situation is that unique on this forum? I can assure you it is not.

The people on this forum that have or are trying to help you are either working and making great progress to restore a happy marriage, or have already recovered using the MB program, and probably just want to give back by helping others to recover.

You seem to feel that most of the help that has been offered here has been too basic and obvious, and that any idiot would have already tried all of this, so of course you have been there, done that. It has been MB based, and the program DOES work, when applied correctly.

The anger and resentment you still feel towards the A, will destroy your M if not dealt with...period. I tried to use my own program to restore my M and it was a disaster.

Good luck to you, the MB program does work. Believe it or not their are many people here that have faced similar situations, and FAR worse but have successfully recovered.

Good post, tismeagain. Let's wait to see what she's got to say.

And I think it might be good to spell out why. MB believes in no unfaithfulness in marriage. That includes "married but separated" people. The fact that you began your relationship with your now-husand while he was still someone else's husband does not bode well for you. He had unfinished business to attend to, healing and recovery and growth, as well as a moral and legal obligation to a family he was leaving behind. All of that has ramifications on your marriage...because it taints your marriage with those same problems, having begun through his affair, now you know he is capable of doing the same to you, just as he knows you'll be capable of becoming involved with a married person if you feel that technically, it is okay. There are a lot of threads here about "affairages" and you might want to check them out.

I know this poster does not wish my advice so I won't bother to continue, but I'd like to point out that the questions made with "morbid curiosity" are actually questions to answer specific information that is very relevant to Harley's specific affair-recovery and marriage-recovery program. The OP does not believe that Harley's steps, particularly the basic #1 step, apply to her, so I really have anything else to offer.

Our OP knows better how to fix marriages than Dr. Harley, so what can lil' ole me offer? Nuthin. Good luck to you OP, please try and contact the Harleys directly. You will need it.