Hello All,

Long time member, joined in 2000 when my dh had an affair right when he turned 40.

This site helped me tremendously, we did reconcile and 13 years later have separated again.

My youngest daughter died unexpectedly and suddenly last October, she was 21. The malestrom of grief and loss has consumed my world, I have never felt so bereft. I completely withdrew from my dh, I barely had enough energy to get up everyday and face the day.

I started seeing a therapist right after my daughter died, to help me cope with the grief and loss. We started discussing my marriage and all the problems that I have battled with for 30 years.

My therapist has seen us a few times together, one marathon session that lasted 3 hours. She is convinced my dh has aspergers syndrome, in which he cannot understand another person's way of looking at things.

Since he had the affair in 2000 and finally came home, I spent years trying to meet his ENs. It was not enough. His number one EN is sexual fullfilment. I tried for years. When I tried, he complained I did it out of duty. That I was not attracted to him and that if I really loved him, I would want him passionately all the time.

I stayed in the marriage for my kids. Now, I have no more energy. Since our daugther died, he thinks we can start all over again, have this grand epic romance, we can have sex whenever and wherever as we are now empty nesters.

I have lost all desire for sex since my daughter died. I am struggling to learn to live without her.

So, last week things came to a head when I told him in our joint counseling session I do not want to have sex for a while. I need time. He moved out the next day, saying he will not go back to counseling.

So, we are separated. He is currently staying with our oldest daughter.

My therapist asked me if I wanted to save the marriage. I really do not know. I have invested 30 years, tried to overcome infedility and years of being told I was the one at fault in the marriage.

My therapist said with his asperbergers syndrome, I will have to spend the rest of our married lives trying to teach him how I feel. I do not know if I have the energy or the desire to try to connect with someone who is so self centered because that is the way his brain is wired.

I have felt enormous relief that he has moved out. However, I am not sure if I want a divorce.

I am really not sure why I posted here today.

The solution is not for your husband to somehow learn or be taught how you feel. Instead, it is for him to learn how to behave in a caring manner by meeting your Emotional Needs, avoiding Love Busters, and learning to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html


If your husband learns to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, he won't have to be "taught" how you feel, he will just know that if you do not voice your enthusiastic agreement, he will not do whatever it is he wanted to do.


Additionally, YOU will have to learn to be radically honest, and never agree to anything you are NOT enthusiastic about.

Nomo,

So sorry about your DD.

The loss of a child is such a difficult thing for a marriage, (Aspergers or not) Because everyone handles grief so differently.


Obviously him moving out is not the best solution for the marriage. Do you feel you guys ever really healed after his A?

I think you might want to consider calling the coaching center, or sending an email to Dr. Harley.

Are you and your H still communicating since he has moved out? Are you willing to try getting in the UA time needed to repair the marriage?

Have you thought about emailing Dr. Harley?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Hold Her Hand,
Thank you for your reply. My therapist tried to talk to my husband about meeting my emotional needs, he tried for 2 weeks, then gave up. He constantly wants to talk about our relationship and will harp on me for what he perceives as my lack of interest in sex. If I approach him, he complains I do it out of duty. If I do not approach him he complains that he always has to approach me. This was prior to my daughter's death.

I have really tried to meet his ens, which is sex, an attractive wife and financial. I have a good job, I work out every day, I try to dress trendy, I used to be loving and attentive, holding his hand, hugging him. Now that my daughter has died, it is as if I have gone with her.

I tried for so long to hold this marriage together. I just want him to give me some time to try to come to terms with my daughters death, to grieve without him pressuring me for anything right now. He could not do it, so here we are.

NOMO

tismeagain, I like your handle.

Thank you for your condolences, the death of my daughter has opened gaping chasms in my life, I feel myself teethering on the edge of sanity and despair. I miss her so much and am trying to understand how a parent is supposed to outlive a child.

Was the marriage ever healed after the Affair. I would say no, he refused to do counseling, refused to read any books on marriage. When he did go to counseling he was very disengaged, it was just a waste of money. He thought it was enough to come home. He did contact her 2 years after he came home, then again 7 years in. He blamed it all on me, the affair, everything.

No communications since he moved out. I am in a firm Plan B, no contact whatsoever. I am willing to work on the marriage, but I need him to give me the time to grieve and just be. This separation is probably best at this time for me, however, I do not think I want to be divorced.

NOMO

Brainhurts, I will try emailing Dr Harley. Thanks for the suggestion.

Nomo,

I was here many years ago myself, trying to repair my marriage post H's A, but never healed (or used MB correctly) and ended up back here again! I don't remember my original posting name, so tismeagain it is

I am so happy that you have decided to email the Harley's! Please keep us updated.

Do you have a good support system around you now?

Well, it would seem that BOTH of you are pretty withdrawn. You aren't going to be very enthusiastic about meeting his need for SF if you aren't in love with him. And he isn't going to be very interested in meeting your needs if he isn't in love with you.

So, what the two of you really need to focus on - and this will be something that can help you progress through your grief - is getting in a bare-minimum of 20 hours each week of UA time doing things you BOTH enjoy enthusiastically, and meeting the four intimate emotional needs; Intimate Conversation, Recreational Companionship, Affection, and Sexual Fulfillment.

You need to shift the focus of your life on building your marriage and maintaining it.


Now, you will notice that two of your speed bumps are included in the four IENs. So, let's address those.

1) Intimate Conversation - at this point, in your withdrawn state, talking about the poor state of your marital relationship is a turn off. OF COURSE IT IS! Now, you might think that a ground rule like "no relationship talk" may be a good guideline? But, not really. Instead, a better rule is to keep your conversations along to lines; being pleasant (not digging up bad memories or experiences, and being safe (free from Love busters like; Disrespectful Judgements, Angry (or other emotional) Outbursts, or Selfish Demands. This will help both of you fall back in love with each other.

2) SF; remove the initiation pressure, schedule SF. Schedule it at the end of date nights, and make it an event. Look good for each other during your dates, and flirt. Heck, be suggestive. And, maybe I'm crazy... but the first time you have a good, fun date with your husband - knock his dang socks off if the night goes well. Show him who the boss REALLY is.


Any chance your husband might come and post?

Nomo,

Was that your email that the Harley's started to address and will finish answering on Monday?

I am very sorry for the loss of your daughter.

Regarding your marriage I caution you against following the advice of counselers.
They have a terrible track record and most are divorced themselves.

I think the best and ONLY hope, if you are both willing to work on your marriage, is marriage coaching through marriage builders.

NOMO,

I heard your email answered on Tuesday's show...well actually I missed the first part, (hint hint brainy ) and was just wondering what your thoughts are.

Do you think your H would be willing to email Dr. Harley too?

Thanks tismeagain for flagging me.

I have it noted and will post it.

Thank you Brainy!

You're welcome.

Here is the beginning of your question and I will post the other part when it hits the archives.

Radio Clip on Aspergers

Here it is.
Radio Clip on Aspergers
Segment #2

Thanks so much brainy...I am wondering if there may have been a segment on Tues. before this one? It almost sounded like they had been discussing her email before, because Joyce says she wasn't ready to set it aside just yet? I was listening to this show Weds. morning just before the live broadcast so I wasn't able to go back.

NOMO,

I hope you were able to listen and I think your H should hear it too. I hope you are still checking this thread and haven't given up on us. I know Dr. Harley would like your H to email him as well, ad you can continue to email Dr. Harley yourself.

I do understand what you are going through NOMO, we lost our teen son unexpectedly about 2.5 years ago. It was the worst thing I could have ever imagined happening! Our marriage was already in rough shape, as we had not recovered correctly from an affair my H had some years back.

I think Dr. Harley gave excellent advice, and in my own case I found focusing my attention to what I could control and change in my life to be best for me.

tismeagain,

Did you listen to this one also? This was on the day before. Is this the one you were thinking about?

Thanks brainy, I did hear both of them! I just thought Dr. Harley may have expanded more about the Asperger's, since he had been cut short about this on the first show where it was addressed.

You are so great with the links, I am not sure why I was thinking something was missing.

No problem.

I will keep my ears peeled in case I have missed something.

Thanks for updating me that the Harley's responded. I did not see
an email from Joyce. The response was spot on, his impulsiveness and
selfishishness. Dr Harley was right in that he needs to put deposits
Into my love bank.

Will you have your husband listen to the clips?

Not sure as he does not yet know that he may have this syndrome.
Things have gotten a lot better, he is enacting Plan A right now. It is nice
to see him change his behavior but not sure how long this will last

Will he write Dr. Harley?

Glad to see you NOMO So happy that you got to hear the clips since you missed the show.

I hope that you will consider having your H write to Dr. Harley. Maybe he could even be caller if he was to include a phone number. I don't think you would need to tell him that he might have a syndrome in order for him to hear from Dr. Harley.

I am not sure if Dr. Harley would even recommend that. I think that could fall into the DJ category. At this point it is just a theory that your therapist has after talking with him a few times and not an actual dx.

Dr. Harley would give him the clear steps that he needs to take to make the love bank deposits needed, and a path to follow to restore your marriage.

The problem is that your ENs are not being met, and therefore you do not feel like having sex with him. He tried for 2 weeks but didn't deposit enough into your Love Bank to get you in to the black where you felt in love with him. Your account is so low that you are in the Withdrawal state and do not feel like meeting his needs either.

If he is familiar with the concept of ENs and the Love Bank, tell him that your account is like at -500 right now and each EN he meets adds 5 but each DJ takes away 15.


Dr. Harley says that the higher need spouse should be the one approaching the lower need spouse and the frequency should be what the lower need spouse needs. Like the POJA, the resentful ness of you having to have sex is greater than his resentfulness in not having sex.

So I say that if you want to repair the marriage, contact the Harleys and make an appt. If anyone can convince your DH to meet your ENs, it will be them.

NOMO-
Regarding Aspergers (now labeled as a form of Autism Spectrum Disorders, instead of differentiated as it was in the past)-

I think it would be very helpful for you to listen to the radio show from Thursday. If you see this post early enough it might still be playing otherwise you will have to wait a couple of weeks.

Toward the end of the show Dr. H goes into great detail about why he does not like to label people with personality disorders. He would much prefer dealing with the symptoms as a combination of instincts and habits which can one by one be changed with practice over time.

I have found this to be true. Your husband CAN learn how to accept and respect your perspective. Focus on the POJA process, paying special attention to the part about understanding perspectives. Read more about it in LoveBusters.

Keep in mind that Dr. Harley & Joyce discuss perspective taking, emotional needs,
and change, repeatedly on the radio show.

Listening to the show is a non-threatening way to gain understanding of these concepts which for some are not naturally assimilated.

DSM 5 no longer uses a multiaxial system.

Autism Spectrum Disorder (including the former diagnostic category, Asperger's Disorder) is not (and was not, in DSM-IV-TR) a personality disorder.

DSM-IV-TR categorized Asperger's Disorder as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

DSM 5 categorizes Autism Spectrum Disorder as a Neurodevelopmental Disorder.

The vast majority of individuals with Asperger's Disorder (now, ASD), need help and support to navigate the social aspects of daily life. Individuals such as Dr. Vernon Smith and others in the media are exceptions.

That said, an accurate and ethical diagnosis of an individual with ASD can only be undertaken by a qualified clinician and with the individual's prior, informed consent.

"Armchair diagnosis," such as the one eluded to earlier in this post (I seem to remember the H was not even aware the therapist was "diagnosing" him), and the announcement of that diagnosis to others is unethical.

Was the therapist in anyway qualified to make this diagnosis?

Did the H give informed consent to participate in the diagnostic process?

If yes...carry on.

If no....

I would drop the issue of "Asperger's" until such time.

BV

There has been so much happening lately with my dh. He hit rock bottom, and now is finally realizing what the affair has done to our marriage. He never took responsibility for the affair, blamed everything and everyone for his behaviour. He behaved towards me as if I had the affair, not him, constantly blaming me for all that he perceived was wrong with our relationship.

He reached out to the therapist, booked weekly sessions with her. He reached out to a pastor at one of the local chuches, and has found God again. He has done a total 180, asking me to forgive him for what he did 13 years ago, is trying for the first time to meet my ENs, not because he can get something out of it, but just because he wants to.

We are still separated, I want to take my time to and address all of the issues in our marriage before I let him back home again. In the meantime, we talk, he is taking me out on a date tonight. For the first time in 13 years, I feel a little bit of hope that I can finally have a spouse who is as invested in the marriage as I am.


I am definitely a case study that you can convince your spouse to come home after an affair, but if you do not address the underlying issues in the marriage, the marriage cannot recover. My dh resisted all attempts of therapy, considered it a waste of time, because, he could not face the fact that he had an affair. I don't know if I am explaining this clearly.

So, we stayed together, to the best of my knowledge, he has not engaged in any other affairs.

I remember how desperate I was to save the marriage, implemented Plan A and Plan B. It worked, but I could not move forward. I addressed all of my issues, tried to meed his ENs. He did not believe in ENs, did not want to ready MB, did not want therapy. He just wanted all of this swept under the rug, to forget.

My daughter's death is the catalyst that unearthed all of this again. I thought the pain of an affair was the greatest truama that one can experience, it is nothing when compared to the loss of a beloved child.

Thanks to all of you for reaching out to me in my time of need. I really appreciate all the support.

NOMO

Broken Vase,

I think you are correct, we need to drop the "aspergers" diagnosis until he has been told or officially diagnosed.

NOMO

Now would be a good time to ask him to either do the online course or MB coaching with you.

Here's a good show on a personality disorder.

Radio Clip on Personality Disorders
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

NOMO,

I am happy to hear that your H is working now to try to restore the marriage. I hope the date went well. That is a step in he right direction, you guys need dates, several times a week is what it will take to restore your love for him.

I agree an affair devastates a marriage, and as Dr. H says the path foe recovery is VERY narrow. Most marriages do not recover properly because the correct steps are never taken. It leaves the marriage limping along in an even worse state then the pre A marriage.

That was what my situation as well. I attempted to start using the MB program with my H, but he thought I could just use MB to fix me...nothing for him to do, this left me frustrated, resentful, and in DEEP withdrawal.

This was where we were in our marriage when we lost our son. I also agree that for me, no pain, suffering, or loss compares to the loss of my child, but even that still did not change the facts about my marriage. If we were going to stay together we HAD to heal and recover our marriage.

Have you considered using the MB coaching center? Is he willing to follow the MB program now?

Brainhurts, like your handle too. I think he will give our therapist his best. She is helping him deal with his grief also, so he needs to focus in on addressing his issues as well as the marriage. I think when he is in a better place, I can ask him to consider MB counseling.

Tsismeagain, I am so sorry for the loss of your son. I understand the trauma of the death of a child, it is really not something you can put into words.

My dh is really trying hard, swearing he has changed, understands the harm he has done, and is going out of his way to be loving, helpful, thoughtful. All of the attributes I longed for. I never thought he would be the kind of husband I need, I just hope he can maintain these changes. In the meantime, we are still separated which is right for both of us. He does take me to lunch, calls me every evening, will come over to the house if I need anything fixed.

However, there is a single woman who is his neighbor who has been hitting on him. He did not realize at first, when she asked him about play dates with our dog and hers. She showed up at his door earlier this week when I was on the phone with him asking him to borrow some sugar. I told him that is just a ploy, it was after 9 at night, what is she doing coming into a strange man's apartment alone and so late? I said I only heard of a neighbor asking to borrow sugar on TV, not in real life. So, I warned him that if he were to engage in an affair with her, we were through. He assured me he is not interested, he loves only me.

I really do not know what to think about this potential threat to the marriage. If he is going to cheat again, here is the prime opportunity. I am trying not to stress about it, but how can I not? He has been very open and up front on his encounters with her. I asked him to tell her the next time that he sees her that he is a married man and that he cannot be friends with her. We shall see......


I know all the warning signs, distance, evasions, calls going unanswered, so I am pretty sure I could tell if he engages in an inappropriate relationship again.

Nomo

Are you thinking about letting him move back in with you?

Not right now. I do not think he is ready to come home yet. I have always given in when he shows me the slightest remorse and I think to do so know may undermine all that I am trying to achieve.

Just wanted to provide an update. H is still seeing the therapist and going to Church. We have been on a few dates, and he has been very attentive and loving. He brings me flowers and cards, texts me during the day, calls me in the evenings.

I have finally opened up to him about my grief. He is also grieving and tried to suppress his grief. We are now grieving together. For the last 9 months of her death, I have shut him out, thinking I could not bear his grief as well as mine. I did us both an injustice by shutting him out.

I think this separation is a good thing for both of us. He has his space, I have mine. For the first time in my life, I am living alone. I think it is good for me, to provide me with the solitude I need to try to find a way to live without my daughter. For so long, my life centered around her and her needs. Now, I need to figure out what purpose I serve now that she is gone. I am still a mom, I have two other children a d 27 and a s 25. But, they are both grown and living on their own.

Thanks to all of you at MB. You were there for me 13 years ago, and you are here for me now. I hope I can someday repay the kindness by reaching out to others in their time of need. At this time it is all I can do to get through the day. I will update if anything significant happens.

NOMO

NOMO, I am very sorry about your daughter but even more sorry to read that your marriage is in such a bad state. The situation is made much worse by your separation. You can't repair your marriage by being separated and it is very likely your husband will have an affair. Do you realize that being separated a) makes it much harder for you to repair your marriage, after all, how can you fix your marriage if you are not there? and b) makes him vulnerable to an affair?

A better solution would be to put aside the "grief" counseling, move back together and work on creating a romantic, passionate marriage. The longer you stay separated the harder it will be to overcome the desrtuctive independent lifestyles you are creating.


It is not good for you becuase you will end up divorced if you continue to neglect your marriage.

Do really want to deal with an affair on top of everything else? Your choices here will lead to more heartbreak. If you make different choices, you can end up with a happy, passionate marriage.

NOMO, these are all issues that are resolved by using this program. Your "therapist" has no idea how to solve this problem, whereas, Dr Harley does. Valuable time is being wasted here that could be devoted to creating a romantic, passionate marriage. We know why you don't want to have sex with him: you are not in love. But this program can teach him how to meet your needs in a way that creates that desire. This is not a difficult problem to overcome. It is not something you ever needed to separate over.

Your husband was placed in a very difficult position when you refused to meet his needs. That was not fair to him.

MelodyLane,

Thanks for your post. My dh has a history of leaving or removing himself when the going gets tough. It is a pattern of behavior for him. I have always let him come back home too early, always forgiving, going overboard to meet his needs. This time, I am trying to ensure that he understands he cannot just check out of the marriage when things are tough.

For once in our marriage, after our daughter died, I thought about myself and how I would cope with her death. It is the most traumatic event a person can go through, I miss her every minute of every day, asking why was she taken from us. I went back to work three weeks after she died, I had no energy for anything except going to work and get through each day. I do not think you understand the devastation of the death of a child unless you too have lost a child. I am literally in the worst emotional pain of my life, feeling like I have a knife sticking out of my chest.

I need for him to prove to me that he can be supportive, loving, faithful, dependable. I need for him to fill my love bank, it has been badly depleted these 13 years. He is doing wonderfully well in that department right now. I think he genuinely thinks he may lose me, and he may still. I stayed in this marriage post affair, making changes, trying to meet his ENs. He felt entitled, the nicer I was the more he failed to meet my needs. He treated me as if I had the affair, all these years.

So, I understand very well what you are saying. If he has another affair during this separation, then, that is what he is going to do. I have learned that I cannot control what he does, only my reaction.

Nomo

MelodyLane has lost a son, NoMo. I'd listen to her if I were you.

Here is Dr. Harley's article on how to fix this:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8120_sex.html

NOMO, the problem with your marriage all along is that you have never used this program and created and a romantic marriage. And now the situation is made worse by this separation. Your husband gin truly expects that his needs will be met in your marriage the same as you expect that your needs will be met. But you have both neglected each other.

I don't think you are thinking about yourself or know what is best for you becAuse surely you don't think that another affair or a divorce is in your best interest?

Yes, you do have control over your marriage. And you have control over the bad choices you are making right now.

Let me tell you from hard experience that dealing with an affair while dealing with a child who has died is devastating. But you are signing up for that. You don't have to destroy your marriage in order to recover from the death of your daughter.

"So, last week things came to a head when I told him in our joint counseling session I do not want to have sex for a while. I need time. He moved out the next day, saying he will not go back to counseling."

Basically, you expect your needs to be met while refusing to meet his. That is thoughtless and shows a lack of empathy. I don't know many women who would tolerate living with a man who refused to meet her needs.

Your husband is willing to do what it takes to make you happy and you have rejected him. Why? "I stayed in the marriage for my kids. Now, I have no more energy. Since our daugther died, he thinks we can start all over again, have this grand epic romance, we can have sex whenever and wherever as we are now empty nesters."

Sadly, your therapist has almost destroyed your marriage because she has utterly no idea how to save a marriage. She has encouraged you to mAke marriage wrecking choices at the most devastating time of your life.

You don't have to lose your marriage in addition to your child. I lost both my child and my marriage at the same time. You don't have to lose both if you will just use this program, my friend. If you lose your marriage it will be because of your choices and nothing else.

MelodyLane, It was not the therapist idea for us to refrain from SF, but mine. She did not advocate separation, this was my dh's idea. My therapist is actually following the Harley's model of putting the spouse first, of love bank deposits etc. She is not advocating divorce or anything like that. She thinks we have a real chance of saving this marriage and is working towards that goal.

I know you are trying to help, and I really appreciate it. I have met my husband's ENs for years, I only stopped after my dd passed away. I still tried to meet all his needs, SF, AS, Financial. I was a loving attentive wife. All I ever received from him was complaints, on what I was not doing regarding SF. It was his number one complaint. When I intitiated, several times, I was accused of doing it out of duty. When I did not initiate, I was accused on not loving him. I was damned if I did and damned if I did not. This went on for years....

I agree we did not follow the MB principles, and now we are dealing with years of neglect. I don't think you understand how tired I am. I am still trying to work on this marriage, I told him after our daughter died that I would need time to grieve. He agreed and was very supportive. However, he still wanted something from me, attention, sf. I just did not have it in me....

Now, we are dating. We are talking, planning a vacation together. For the first time in 13 years I feel as if there is hope for us. We speak of our daughter, with laughter and with tears. We talk on the phone several times a day, we have lunch quite regularly and have dates on weekends. He is engaged, he is loving, he is attentive. He is trying to make amends for the affair, for all the subsequent years of not taking responsibility for his actions.

The separation has forced us to examine what we have, and is rekindling our marriage.

NOMO

NOMO, however much you like this therapist, it is obvious she has not helped you and you have not been using MB concepts. I seriously doubt she understands how to use the program. There is no reason that your marriage would be such a wreck after all these years. A complaint is simply a warning that you are losing love units. It sounds to me like you weren't meeting your husbands needs in the way they should have met, and vice versa. This is why you are not in love.

When you follow the program as it is intended, couples fall in love and sexual desire is not a problem. When there is true desire, spouses do not feel unloved as your husband has.

Separation is not good for your marriage, nor is talking about his affair. Once all the facts are known , it should never be brought up again. A marriage can't be sustained living apart.

I think it's great that he is willing, but just know that you make it harder by being separated and make it much more likely he will have an affair. I have doubts you really understand this program. We can help you with this if you want.

It would be a tragedy to lose your daughter and your marriage, don't you agree?

"The separation has forced us to examine what we have, and is rekindling our marriage."

You already know what you have though. There is nothing to "examine." Your marriage would be rekindled if you shared your lives and spent every night together. You can't create intimacy by living like coworkers. You are married people. You were already detached in your marriage; a separation only aggravates the existing problem.

I say this with kindness, NOMO, because I see you headed for a train wreck when you have already been hit once. If you want to know the definition of hell on earth, try enduring the death of your child AND an affair. That is what you are risking, for absolutely no good reason.

I was just reading a post in Recovery about statistics and thought I would quote what Rocketqueen posted:

"True recovery and a true romance afterwards takes AT LEAST ONE of two things:
One, a BS that has the ability to "forgive" and love freely again,regardless of the crime. Someone who is forgiving by nature, not resentful.
Two, a WS that is deeply remorseful and willing to move mountains to heal their spouse.

If the first is present and not the second, the BS can be the driver, put the effort in,and as long as the marriage is in future affair proof even though their spouse was not remorseful, the BS seems to be able to forgive and move on and live in the present.
If the second is present, it is possible IMO for a
truly repentant WS to turn around a very resentful and unforgiving BS.
In cases where NEITHER are present, Recovery will never happen.


In my case, my WH was never truly repentant. I was the forgiving BS, always bending over backwards to keep this marriage afloat, trying to meet ENs only to have it tossed back in my face. I don't think you understand the level of pain of having an unrepentant WS.

Now, he is truly repentant, not just about the affair but his treatment of me afterwards.

MeolodyLane, I understand where you are coming from. For years, I was loving, forgiving, understanding. He was NOT. Now, it is his turn to prove to me that he wants this marriage. If he were to indulge in an affair now, then, you know what, he was never really invested in the marriage to begin with. I cannot go back to the marriage that was, I need to have a partner fully invested in making this marriage work.

I think the insanity of my marriage was doing the same thing over and over again hoping for different results.

I think the MB model works, however, my lovebank is very much depleted. He needs to make some deposits. He is trying to do so now. I am filling his LB by going on dates, being attentive and loving as I always am.

Nomo

NOMO, rocket queen is only partially right, (and she is 100% wrong in the case of wayward wives - this is why folk wisdom is so destructive) it does not take forgiveness to recover a marriage. It takes just compensation. Like Dr Harley often states, he is all in favor of forgiveness but not in the case of infidelity. When applied to these situations, it instead leads to an unrecovered marriage. Dr Harley doesn't believe in forgiveness and he also doesn't believe in one sided, unreciprocated need meeting, for the very reasons you have experienced. It is unconditional love and thAt leads to neglect and abuse.

What I am suggesting, NOMO, is that you accept that your own methods have not worked in the past and they wont work in the future. Why not try something that does work, Marriage Builders? It does not involve one sided giving and it does not involve unwarranted forgiveness, but teaching your husband to become an expert at making you happy, and vice versa.

We can show you how to do this if you will follow us. You are playing pool with your eyes closed - again - and we can show you how to become an expert shot.

"I think the insanity of my marriage was doing the same thing over and over again hoping for different results. "

I very much agree with you here, which is why I am suggesting that you use Marriage Builders this time. It really does work. Your own methods have NOT.

" If he were to indulge in an affair now, then, you know what, he was never really invested in the marriage to begin with. I cannot go back to the marriage that was, I need to have a partner fully invested in making this marriage work."

Getting separated will not cause him to become invested, though; it achieves the opposite of what you say you want. What will cause him to be invested is falling in love with you. Do you want us to teach you how to do that?

MelodyLane, sorry for not responding sooner, please do not think I am not grateful for your time and advice. I just hae so much on my plate, I feel overwhelmed most days. The one year anniversary of my daughter's death is next month and I feel so surreal, how can I have survived a year without her.

Anyway, things are progressing. My dh spends more time at home that at his apartment. He has only been there one night out of the last 2 weeks.

We are progressing. He is definitely filling up my love bank. However, I still am very reluctant to have any type of relationship talks. I am living very much in the now, trying not to look ahead for several reasons. My future seems to be such a bleak prospect without my daughter, and I try to get through one day at a time. However, I know that my dh and I need to discuss our issues, to find a different solution.

I have decided to talk to him about trying the MB concepts, filling out the questionaires and sign up for coaching. I think he would be more than agreeable to all of this.

However, the one area in our marriage that has been the main source of contention is the area of SF. I don't know how to bring it up, how to discuss without feeling attacked. I am sure he is in a different mindset, he has said as much. But, I feel as if I have an aversion to discussing the topic, not SF itself.

I was hoping that the wiser DBers out here can provide some help on this issue.

I would get onboard with the coaching and/or the online program and save the SF talk for help from your coach.

So table the SF talk for now. When do you think you can sign up?

So sorry about your DD.

Brainhurts, thank you.

I will table the SF talk for now.

I will print out the EN questionnaires and we will spend time this weekend filling them out as a first step.

N