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I think "being himself" includes being free to chat up all the available young women and develop inappropriate relationships with them, whether it descends into a physical relationship or not. It’s back to “being married but acting single.” I suspect you’re finding out things about his recent conduct (that you don’t want to discuss here at MB) that tend to confirm that analysis and that’s why you’re in such a gloomy state of mind.

He can go from affectionate to hateful in a single afternoon because he’s been in contact with another of those young women, whether it's a new OW or any of the others he’s been in contact with in the past. It’s fairly typical to see a radical change of mood like that when they get a “fix” of contact with an OW. His mood may change again this evening. You seem to have stood up for yourself and he seems to react to that by becoming conciliatory.

I’m becoming more and more convinced he’s never been out of contact with some OW, TFC, and I think MC is the only hope to fix this thing. Hang in there, if you possibly can until your MC returns.

If you can’t, your Plan A was better than most and I believe a good, dark Plan B will be that much more effective because of the work you did in Plan A.

Stay strong, TFC.

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He can go from affectionate to hateful in a single afternoon because he’s been in contact with another of those young women, whether it's a new OW or any of the others he’s been in contact with in the past. It’s fairly typical to see a radical change of mood like that when they get a “fix” of contact with an OW.

I know for sure it isn't the old OW, or any others he was talking to before. Its a whole new set of them. I asked him about "being himself" involving women - chatting them up, flirting with them, exchanging phone numbers, etc. He claims it has nothing to do with that (yeah right).

Last night he was uber-affectionate and kind. He apologized for saying all those things the night before. I told him that I wasn't going to bed feeling that unloved anymore - it has happened all too much and I won't take it anymore.

My best friend and I have discussed this at great length: When he's in town and with me, he's making a great effort. When he's out of town and in party-mode, he's hateful and verbally abusive. This leaves a couple of options ... (1) He's on drugs; (2) he has an alcohol problem; (3) he's addicted to the attention from other women; (4) all the above.

I feel bad that I don't particularly blow up his ego anymore, I know that's something a man needs from his wife. But he's getting it blown up all over the US, and I feel like its getting out of control. We've always had a rule that at home he's a regular guy - a husband and a father. And I enforce that rule big time! I have been sure to complement when he's being a good husband or father, but I don't say anything about his career anymore. Matter of fact, I prefer not to discuss it at all anymore. I used to play such a big role in his decision-making and planning for his career. But now, he doesn't want me to be any part of it, except to be encouraging. While I am supportive, I feel like a lot of the time he goes out of his way to throw in my face that I am not "allowed" to participate anymore.

Am I making sense?

I'm looking forward to our next MC session ... its me alone with the MC. I've been making notes of things to discuss. Hopefully I can fit most of it into the hour! LOL

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Making sense? You bet you are. I don't know how long it's been going on, but I think WH has been systematically putting fences between you and the rest of his life for a while now. I don’t know if the compartmentalization began before your affair or not, but I strongly suspect it started quite a while before you became aware of it on a conscious level.

I was pretty sure he was going to be conciliatory yesterday evening. It’s a behavioral pattern of his and he’s fairly predictable in that area. You and your best friend have nailed it on his attitudes when he’s close to you and when he’s on the road. I pick option (3) as the primary problem, but (1) and (2) may be contributing to the difficulties. Were I you, I’d search the web for the signs of drug addiction (including alcoholism) and see if they match.

Getting the issue of compartmentalization, as a symptom of his inappropriate behavior, into the discussion with your MB is critical, I think. WH’s holding himself aloof from you, and the marriage, is extraordinarily destructive and something/someone must get that through to him…and soon.

Hang in there, lady.

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Apparently the the compartmentalization began a while ago ... there was the illusion that it wasn't going on, but as I've found out that wasn't true. For instance, the 1st girl I was worried about (out of town) - apparently they'd been friends since September 2006 (before my A) and I never knew. The OW here in town, the one he def had an A with, she's been emailing him and stuff for over a year. So, I've realized that our M was even worse than I had originally thought! Its not a fun realization, but at least I can understand some things a little better because of finding all this out.

This weekend was good - we're getting along really well. But this is the big bday week and I know things could get really rocky here soon. I still don't know about going to the bday bash. I was invited once again, but he doesn't want me there so I think maybe its best to stay home.

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Well, again, I'm the kind of person who would meet something like this head on. I'd go to that birthday party and let him deal with it. What does your best friend say about it?

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Well, we are of the same opinion ... H has painted a really ugly picture of me over the last 6 months and I will have to fight that stigma pretty hard. Showing up, unwanted, will be a great way to publicly humiliate myself and prove at least some of the picture to be truthful. Since I'm not into getting embarrassed or being a ******, its best that I not go. Sunday I will have an opportunity to prove all that wrong when we make a family appearance at a function where OW will almost definitely be present ... it is a MAJOR social function, so it is probably a better opportunity anyway.

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*** (deleted) *** He hasn't bothered to tell her he's MARRIED!!! Wouldn't there have been plenty of opportunities to tell her??? *** (deleted) ***

Nothing is really changing here ...

Last edited by time_for_change; 07/11/07 07:51 AM.
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Yeah, like I've said, I'm given to confrontation at times, perhaps overly so. Your way is probably best.

Are there any signs at all WH is trying to give up his "single" ways?

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Yes and no.

For instance, this girl gave him her phone number and asked him to text her, and he hasn't ... but he also hasn't bothered to let her know that her advances are to a married man that isn't interested. Perhaps he is? Not sure.

There are a lot of signs that things are better in the "bachelor" department, but then there's stuff like this. I wouldn't know about it if I weren't checking up on him, but is that really a good thing? I don't think it is.

I spent last night reviewing parts of SAA, HNHN, FILSIL, and Not "Just Friends" ... I made a list of all the things that I would like for us discuss/negotiate for recovery. I am going to take the list with me to my 1-on-1 with our MC so that I can make the most of my time there.

Last edited by time_for_change; 07/11/07 07:50 AM.
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Until he's willing to commit to radical honesty, snooping is entirely justified. You have a right to know what is going on.

I think it’s a good idea to make that list of issues. You may not get to all of them in the next session, but you’ll know what direction you want to go. Let the MC know you have the list and show it to him/her.

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I am so tired and trying not to give up. I'm finding myself annoyed at him a lot and not very supportive of his career (which isn't at all like me). I am trying hard not to give in to the feelings of lovelessness ... what on earth can I do until our next MC session to retain some love???

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Hard question to answer, TFC. You've been dealing with this for a long time and it's beginning to show. The quick answer is to get your Plan B ready to implement. Plan B is designed to preserve what love can be retained and not suffer any further debilitation. It’s a refuge from exactly what you’re feeling now. On the other hand, the struggle has been to get him to agree to MC and one would think you need to give that some time to work, if WH is actually participating in good faith. A puzzle indeed.

I don’t see an easy answer. If you can, keep on with your modified Plan A, but I would concentrate on keeping your boundaries intact and doing 180 wherever you see fit. In a sense, I think letting WH get even more of a glimpse of the fact that you are losing patience can be a good thing. I think that’s part and parcel of the 180 concept and may work to your advantage because I believe your WH is a master manipulator. When he sees his manipulations aren’t working, he scrambles to placate you.

Where you can, do things that take your mind off this situation. Physical activity, perhaps a trip with your best friend to (wherever) for (whatever reason) can be good. Change your routine, mix it up, anything you can do to revitalize yourself is a thing you should do.

The whole point is to get just that little extra time where you can be patient enough to give MC a chance. I think that is the best you can do while you wait for a few more MC sessions.

That having been said, TFC, if you keep discovering new OW and you continue to experience a continued lack of respect for you and the marriage from your WH, your love is going to die a hard death. Before that happens, please think of how you can pull the trigger on Plan B. Be ready, keep the plan on the back burner, but begin to think of how you would apply it.

Hang tough, lady.

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if you are discovering continued new OW...it is NOT time for Plan B...it is time for Plan FU... lay into him, full force and do not tolerate this any longer.
Plan FU has its uses around here and I think it is most definitely called for in this case now.

Just my 2 cents.

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I cannot do a "Plan B" - MB techniques only somewhat work with my H. "Plan FU" sounds amusing ...

Basically, he is only ready and willing to commit a little bit ... and he says he needs time before he can just start making these huge changes left and right. I recognize that it must be difficult to give up all the fun he's been having and be serious about a crappy marriage, but I also recognize that we are going to fail at this if he doesn't man up and just deal. (Is that a LB?)

Oh, and last night, he point-blank told me that he doesn't feel the least bit sorry for his behaviors over the last 6 months ... he doesn't feel bad, guilty, or sorry. Nice. Except that he started these behaviors BEFORE my A ... so what's the excuse for the months prior to the last 6 (almost 7)???

Tonight's the big bday bash ... I'll be keeping myself busy. I have a movie to watch, laundry to do, a wonderful DD to play with. I didn't say a word to him about what time he's coming home tonight or anything (if he follows suit with his usual, it'll be around 5am - fun!). And I have IC tomorrow a.m. - he's promised to be up by 10am to be with DD while I have that (which reminds me, I need to call my parents as a back-up sitter).

Last edited by time_for_change; 07/12/07 02:36 PM.
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Plan B isn't for the benefit of the WS. It's for you.

No, I don't think recognizing he's not putting very much effort into this (and where it will lead if it continues) is an LB. It's just being realistic.

Remember, you can't change his mind. He must change it himself. I hope he does, but I see very little sign of it. So much brazen disrespect and callous manipulation...

I keep thinking there's something below the surface—a hidden agenda that hasn't played out yet.

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I think the hidden agenda is just his own ego and convenience.

It hurts so bad that not only doesn't he care what he's been like over the last 6-7 months (or more), but he supposedly is "trying" and we are "friends" and "meant to be together", but doesn't want me at his bday party. And he knows he's being selfish - he said so - and still doesn't take the appropriate steps to make the effort. He just wants to wait until our next MC session to talk about this stuff or take strides in any direction (other than up his own rear-end) - that was mean, sorry.

I realize that Plan B is to protect myself and my love for him, but I'm afraid that if I did Plan B I wouldn't have any love left and it would really be over. I just want to try - I really can see this working, if he will make a little more effort. I even recognize that I haven't been trying as hard over the last week or so ... and I admitted that to him and apologized for it.

I want our life together to be as important to him as his career ... is that too much to ask???

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No, it's certainly not too much to ask. It's something you deserve from your partner in marriage.

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You said before that I can't change his mind ... and I know that. But he has to want to ... I know that too. He seems wanting to change in some ways, but hesitant in many others. But the career comes first and a lot of the behaviors are blamed on the job ...

I am really hoping that we can settle some things in MC. But nothing is happening fast, that's for sure. Neither of us are patient people and we both want to solve things fast. Which means that we need to be going to MC a lot more frequently!

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I can see where patience is a short commodity in your life these days. Anything you can do to lower your blood pressure and anxiety would be a good thing. Perhaps you could approach the MC with a request for additional sessions, or longer ones?

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How're things going, TFC?

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