Wow, Bubbles, I'm having a hard time understanding how your words might be helpful.

Agree, disagree with holds' approach to his marriage and life but attacking the kids? I can't imagine that would motivate anyone to listen to you.

Hold appears to be an intelligent man with a very low opinion of himself, the inability to get out of his own way, and his emotional capacity to change at zero. Be that as it may, displaying tact and kindness probably wouldn't hurt you.

Your tough love approach can come of as just meanness.

Formerly nam here since 07/31/03 coastal, CT