Originally Posted by Retread
Let me say this: How much good do you think you can do the children by setting an example of an arrangement where both of you are always keeping score, and always coming up short in the eyes of each other, and of yourselves?

I don't think I am setting a very good example for the kids. I just think I would set an even worse example divorced. Right now I have a little bit of a life outside my marriage. And Mrs. Hold and I are basically pleasant to one another. After divorce I would be worthless (no life, sit in my apartment staring at the walls) and if the kids are still living with us, Mrs. Hold and I would wage nuclear war. If the kids are gone I don't think we would have much to fight about. No custody issues. No child support issues. Not much property to split up (equity in the house should just about cover our credit card bills, so we equalize 401(k) plans and we're done). Mrs. Hold will get whatever spousal support the court gives her and that is it.

You do realize, don't you, that until you learn to resolve the attitude problems you have now, that neither one of you will be able to find the happiness you want with any other person - so why not start changing now?

I agree that I would have to become much healthier before I could expect to have a successful relationship with another woman. I don't expect to ever be healthier. Or to find happiness. I think Mrs. Hold probably can find happiness. She claims to have been happy for most of our marriage. I think she could easily be happy with someone else.

Neither one of you can give this a fair shot with divorce when the children leave out there as an option, much less a goal. Don't even think about it. Give 100% effort to fixing the problems by focusing on what's good until the children are grown, then see where you are.

I do not believe it is possible for me to fix the problem. I gave it my best shot for 8 years. The frustration of trying and making zero progress was overwhelming. The goal is the only thing that gets me out of bed in the morning. 1866 days to go.

If someone is going to fix this problem, it will have to be Mrs. Hold. And she has given zero indication that she wants it fixed. As she said, she is disappointed but on balance is content where she is. Whether she will continue to be content 5 years from now remains to be seen.

I have posted on another board. I want to be in love with my wife. But I am too beaten down to reach out to her. She will have to reach out to me. I would run to her arms if she did. But if she doesn't, I will stay huddled in my corner. Which is where I think she sits. On the other side of the room. Huddled in her corner. Both too afraid to reach out. She rejects me to pre-empt me hurting her. I understand the mechanism. That doesn't mean I am willing to keep getting body parts handed to me on a plate.

She recently said "I hardly ever wake you up when you are sleeping. I think it is rude." I replied "the difference is, when you wake me up, I am glad to see my beautiful wife looking down at me. I am glad to be woken up by you. When I wake you up, you cut me a new orifice."

When you can see it coming, duck!