Sitting around and waiting for your wife to take the initiative is NOT attractive.

Take the initiative and woo your wife back. Romance her. Pursue her. Win her.

I know she isn't enthusiastic about anything. I have the exact same feeling towards her. Specifically what can I call and ask or text my wife about what to expect tonight? I don't mean about wine, I just mean tonight after the kids go down we have time to spend together, usually two hours. I want to plan and agree now how we spend it so we both know what to expect. She may not want to spend anytime with me and I'm prepared for that answer too, but for now I need some direction on what verbage I would use with my wife.

That's absolutely opposite to what we are advising you to do. That's sitting around doing nothing about your wife's emotional needs and using her as an excuse. Instead, continue to try to meet your wife's emotional needs. Use trial and error if she gives you no information, instead of judging her for giving you no information.

Goodness, no; that would sound sarcastic and disrespectful.

Do this instead: come up with two proposed activities. Make one something NEW that you think she would enjoy, and one something that you've done before that she knows she enjoys. Contact her and say "I'd like to spend some time with you tonight. I was thinking of either X or Y."

If she doesn't like one of those, come back with more suggestions.

If you don't have something picked by the time the kids are asleep, invite her to play Scrabble, and talk talk TALK. Without demands, disrespect, anger, or independent behavior, of course.

Hill, getting information from her would be good, but you can't force her to behave, you can only change what you do and then see if it has a positive impact on her.

From the way you describe things, it sounds to me like she does a better job of meeting your needs than you do of meeting hers, because you sound more in love/engaged. So, before you start making requests of her to make you happy, you have to make her want to do that for you by meeting her needs and avoiding LBs.

By the way, Hill, please don't underestimate the fact that you are BOTH here, BOTH posting, and BOTH trying. There are endless people on here who wish (including me) that their spouse would want to do MB. There is lots of hope for you two because of that, please keep that in mind. This is a long game but you are both playing it on the same team, so as you get better and better at it, you are bound to find success.

And if she STILL refuses (and she may), try again tomorrow.

Markos,

This is the kind of stuff I needed, specific suggestions I can follow through with. I'll do it. By the way, my heart is beating, pulse is racing, and I feel fear just by doing this. Prisca might think I'm a wuss, but I don't really care, the feeling is real. I'd rather be presenting a sales presentation in front of 20 strangers.

I'm not sure I understand this point, I'm more in love with her so I do less of a job of meeting her needs? She is less in love with me, but she meets mine better? Wouldn't it be the opposite?

I understand the feeling.

Take heart; you'll never fall in love with strangers, but you will fall in love with Grace.

BTW, it sounds to me like Grace is not enthusiastic with you drinking wine at all. Clear it out of the house and quit buying it. Find some other recreational activities that you both think are super.

I'm just saying that she seems to be spending a lot of time in withdrawal and you seem to be spending a lot of time in conflict. Conflict is closer to being in love than withdrawal. So, my point is that in order to get your needs met in the long run, your current focus should be doing things (meeting needs and avoiding LBs) that move her out of withdrawal. Once she falls in love, she will be more enthusiastic about meeting your needs.

I know there is hope even though it doesn't feel that way right now.

That is absolutely right, Penni!

Hill, I think your feelings are completely valid. I don't look down on you for being emotional. I am married to an emotional man, and I think emotional men make great husbands.

But waiting around for your wife to take the initiative is not about feelings. It's about doing nothing. And it's unattractive. Women like to be pursued. Women like to be won. It's just part of our nature. So follow some of these suggestions we've given you and WIN your wife.

(Secretly I think emotional men lead more complete lives than the other kind. But don't tell anybody I said so. )

My wife loves nice wine like I do, but it is a streaky thing. If she is running or dieting it is out, if she isn't and is stressed it is usually in. Whether it be wine or scrabble, I think all activities have ceased being as fun as they used to together which is part of the problem. Wine used to be about romance together, not anymore. We haven't been enjoying each other's company and always arguing so we both engage in IB because we don't want to be miserable. As childish as it is I "hide" upstairs, in the living room, in parking lots, just to avoid her. My mentality walking in the door is that of defensiveness. How fun is the night gonna be when I start out with that attitude.

Decide to walk in the door attractive and happy, with plans that she hope she will join you for.

If she says no, you regret to hear that, but keep your composure. Like Prisca said, try again tomorrow.

Be that as it may, my waiting around comes from fear. Overcoming fear is a process, wouldn't you agree? Its not physical fear it is fear of rejection, DJs, SDs, AOs, and other LBs. My instincts tell me, "don't touch that you're get burned", and that is what motivates me more so than the idea of a happy marriage. On top of it, we fight and I don't even want to hang out with her. I'm sure she doesn't want to hang out with me either. I have to change this to have a great marriage and I'm trying. Tonight might be tough. I asked her if she wanted to hang out, haven't heard back. Tonight might be a bit early to do a romantic pursuit of my wife considering we had some pretty big fighting last night and this morning.

That is because both of your love bank balances are deep in the red. You have both abused each other, and you're both wounded.

I would "hide" by going shopping. I would "hide" in front of the TV. I suspect your wife does the same with the TV, since that seemed to be taking up a lot of your time together for awhile. She seems to "hide" with her gardening, too, as far as it looks from here.

Markos would do the parking lot thing.

We all do it, when we're hurting. Our feelings tell us to sooth ourselves, protect ourselves, make ourselves feel good about something in life.

You're going to have to override your feelings with your thoughts for awhile. "Yes, I want to hide out in a parking lot and eat a bucket load of fried chicken (markos :D), but I'm going to go home with a smile on my face, a gift in my hands, and an evening planned that will crack the door to my wife's heart open. And I will do it again tomorrow. And the next day. Until she opens up completely."

Overcoming fear is a decision. You decide you are going to stand up and face what you fear.

It's a process in the sense that you may have to face your fear several times before you're no longer afraid. But it starts with a decision.