What would be "just compensation" to you for the lost stick? To where you could look back and it would be neutral or even a fond memory instead of a painful one?

In 1998 B kept a bag of dog food in the garage after we got a dog he took back. It attracted rats who came and destroyed my baby album, HS yearbook, every photo and momento I owned. I think it was a life lesson to me that everything is all temporary.

'The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away' Job 1:21

Oh, Ned...I don't even know where to begin tonight. We played pool again, it was great fun, I complained about not ever 'getting' how to bank and he gave me a pointer, then dropped it and waited for me to ask him a question about it and waited for me to try his suggestion and I banked it and thanked him...which is soooo much better than brow-beating your spouse to do what you say or they're an idiot.

It was great, up until the point where we came back upstairs and he got on the computer to look up a replacement part for his old stick. *gaslighting begins* He DENIED ever even hearing of my old stick, much less getting rid of it, even though we talked about it LAST NIGHT. And several times before (not in arguments), and was a pretty big deal when it actually happened nine years ago (kinda nasty--that was the first of seven car purchases that I heard about after-the-fact, but the only one that had my belongings in it when traded in). He said, "Do you always remember everything that happens?" Umm...pretty much, and pretty funny since he accuses me of remembering 'petty little things to throw in his face', but I responded, "I remember things that are important to me." He denied telling me the car was sold and gone, denied, denied, denied...denied last night, denied the entire existence of the issue...but said he wasn't denying that it happened, only that he doesn't remember it...

So just compensation is a hard thought for me right now, when my H is denying a conversation that took place last night, along with all the other conversations over the years and the BIG ONE, and is questioning whether the stick even existed in the first place. The gaslighting is so whacked to deal with...is he intentionally being an azz, or is he seriously mentally deficient? Does he have any awareness of what he's doing, or is his mind so twisted that he actually believes himself? Did I not beat him over the head enough last night for him to hear me? The stick thing was him bringing it out, reminiscing, me saying "I think it's a little insensitive of you to be bringing that out when you got rid of mine behind my back, my stick was special to me, too, but I don't have it anymore" and he said sorry and put it away, so I DROPPED it.

Just compensation would be for him to get rid of the broken old stick and move us forward together with new sticks, but there's the whole denial thing going on that needs special attention, too.

Wow I remember those days. I had a really hard time holding onto my serenity when B was flat-out lying to me, and hard to reset after. I guess that explains why I would come spend so much time on the boards instead, or get involved on other outside activities. Good for you for following through on your commitments anyway.

Do you have the Love Busters book? I lent mine out. What are the end of chapter exercises on Dishonesty? My guess would be writing it down and showing him at the end of the week, so you both would be reset by then.

It's a four-step process, and the first one is a doozy: admitting you've been dishonest. He's not been able to do that, even with physical evidence of his dishonesty.

I sent him this: http://dividedheart.com/index.php?topic=1092.0

And asked for his opinion about it. He's said nearly everything on that page. I wonder if he will recognize himself.

I hope it helps. I know Conversation is a key part of UA, but are there other RC things you guys like doing that involve less of it? Like when y'all got into that P90x together?

Sex, we enjoy that. We enjoy walking through museums, where you're expected to be relatively quiet. We talked about getting back into P90X, but he's having knee trouble and doesn't want to until he's taken care of that (his ACL is disintegrated and he keeps getting fluid on the back of his knee). He's put on a bit of weight since we stopped doing it, which is fine with me, I like big guys. I've been able to maintain my loss from it, but I'd like to tone up a bit more and enjoyed the program, especially motivating each other. I'm not very self-motivating when it comes to exercise. I much prefer to just sit and contemplate it.

He called and said he read what I sent and wanted to talk later. Hm...that hasn't worked out well in the past, but I'll give him his benefit of the doubt he's always wanting.

At least he knows that I know what he's doing, and I'm not buying it. Now I can just say GASLIGHTING instead of trying to tell him how infuriating it is and getting flustered at his circular denial game. I do think he wants to address his issues; he'd said it really bothered him when he read what people were saying on this thread, and he was bothered by his results on that PD test, and he's reading a book I had to read for school--by the Dalai Lama, about ethics. There's a lot of great stuff in it, I encouraged him to read it, and after the empathy discussion, he picked it up and took it to his "reading room," haha.

Bwa-ha-ha! Any guesses on how this went?

That he didn't say anything more on it yesterday, but it was okay, you guys found some things you both like talking about?

haha...no.

Threatened to divorce you again? And you called his bluff, and handed him a packed overnight bag, and sent him on his way?

Nope, not that either!

He started gaslighting me again! lol...tried to convince me that the time I busted him about that overnight trip with a copy of the email, we were only discussing WHEN he found out it was an overnight, he hadn't tried to say that it wasn't one THAT night, and that he'd told me it was an overnight a long time before that, he was sure of it.

I said, bullchit, this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

We got on that subject because lo and behold he has a trip coming up next Monday! It's only one day, not an overnight, flying out in the AM and flying back that evening. I have seen the itinerary, so that is accurate, but I told him I was nervous that it would be changed without telling me (which would make it a no-go), or he would conveniently miss his flight home and HAVE to spend the night in West Palm. He said he wouldn't do that, so I said I'd need to see it because of having to BUST him on that other one he insisted was a single day.

He was mad that I was 'still holding that against him', and I said, um, yeah, that's the problem with deception--people tend to use it as a basis to determine if you should be trusted in the future. Sorry!

Cwmi, Because this is a writtm forum and not something where you can hear tone, I think in the past, I would have assumed reading the above that you were somehow happy when this stuff happened that they "take him down a notch" and "make home look like the bad guy." I apologize for that.

So let me instead ask you, cwmi, how does this stuff make you feel? Are you giving these feelings a voice? I would be sad to hear this, but I would tell him that I would try to make the best of it, to try to use it as a growth opportunity together, to see if his actions and values line up with what I need for myself and our family. How about you?

I do find it tragically hilarious that someone could read about gaslighting, express recognition for having done it, regret for having done it, then immediately attempt to do it again.

I feel frustrated.

That would be frustrating. Where to from here?

The beach.

Sweet!

Yeah, not for a couple of weeks, though. I'm ready NOW, today is going to be rough. H won't be home until 11pm tonight, left at 6:30 this morning, all for a THREE HOUR class in another state.

I asked him to explain to me how it was that I had the understanding that his company would not be sending him to any out-of-town training, and this came up. That's what he told me: that his boss said he would move H's classification to the other manufacturer they represent so that H would not have to do any of this manufacturer's training. The other manufacturer does all of theirs by sending someone to his dealership, or it is online. He can still sell both lines.

H "explained" that by saying, yes, that's what he was told, but then there were never any more conversations about it after that. I abstained from rolling my eyes. I asked if there was a conversation about it when he was approached to do this manufacturer's training. H said no, since he was not required to be gone overnight. Then we were back to 'what about being told that you wouldn't be doing this manufacturer's training?' and round and round, you know the drill. He said he never talked to the big boss about it, only his immediate, so he didn't know what big boss knew about it. I said, "You told me that big boss said you were making the right decision, was THAT true?" Yeah. Okay, so how can you never have talked to big boss about it, so you don't know what he knows, but he commented on your decision? Doesn't that conflict? That IS talking about it with big boss. ???

Conversation with him is maddening.

I don't think you can force a custody arrangement on your husband in a divorce, so it is very possible that he could get "every other weekend and one night per week" vistation or something to that effect.

Also, I am sure I am not getting the whole picture, but what gives you the right, as a spouse, to have to be involved in your husband's employment? I think many companies require out of state or off site trainings -- I am guessing they aren't every other week or every month or something, and if he is in upper management or sales, etc., I am sure there is a lot of smoozing or socializing that goes along with that job, something where spouses aren't always invited (not to say they couldn't have company events that would include spouses). I know our firm Christmas party is just for employees and doesn't include spouses, and I've NEVER had my husband accompany me for out of town trainings, even when social events are part of the seminar, etc.

I am sure there must be other things going on, trust issues, etc., but I could see you having more of a problem if your husband chose to golf every weekend or go out with the guys after work every night, not that he is attending work functions and out of town trainings.

Am I missing something?

Sorry, I see now that I responded to a much earlier part of this thread, so my reply may be out of context...