No I get it. So my wife and I are years ahead of where we used to be where threats of divorce were a monthly occurrence. We get along pretty well for the most part which is why I put that my wife is "in like" with me. She says "I love you daily" so taking her at her word I'd say that she is in love with me. The reason I concluded "like" instead of love is because SF is still on "chore" status. She still drops her arms when I hug her. She still sometimes will push me away if I hug her too long. In addition our conversations are more about trivial things rather than anything deep.

She doesn't like to fight and neither do I. We love to go out to dinner and date night, but there is little or no affection during those times. She knows my most important EN's and asking her only gets an eye roll, almost as if it is a love buster. If I ask for a need to be met with complete sincerity and without demand or disrespect, it is met with antagonism. I feel like my wife is a good buddy that I hang out with, but we are not in a romantic relationship. I meet my wife needs financially and there were times in the past I did not. I meet her need of H&O where in the past I did not. I'm extremely affectionate, probably even more than she wants. Her questionnaire said SF is one of her top ENs but I would say by the current frequency levels it is not. I struggle with her need for conversation because it involves subjects that it is difficult for me to be excited about such as home improvement. I feel that she mostly wants to talk about stuff we can "buy" and to be honest I don't feel that we should spend more money on a house that we both decided is not a house we'll retire in.
We are awesome on recreation by running and exercising together. Despite all of these things I feel that our relationship is mostly shallow and that my wife wants to keep me at bay. Its a weird place to be but better than when we were fighting daily.

She says sex is a high need but she only has sex twice a year?

I may have asked before....is she willing to commit to Marriage Building coaching?

We have sex more than twice a year, did I say that we didn't? When she wrote that down in our workbook she was trying out MB and I can only assume she felt pressured to list it high after knowing it was my #1? No she is opposed to the entire MB program, particularly the forum and website. She has memories of the forum getting it in my head that she was cheating which left us many headaches and heartaches. There was never one single thing that I could find about infidelity and she was an open book with phone, facebook, and anything else I wanted. I think she views you all here as mostly those that experienced infidelity and therefore a bad influence on those that have not.

Hill, I know you've answered HDW twice today on the question of MB coaching, but for me, the problem is that you do not give a straight answer. You keep muddling up the answer to the coaching question by talking about your wife's experiences on the forum.

Does your wife understand that telephone coaching with either Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers, or doing the online course weekly for a year, has nothing to do with the forum?

Does she understand that she would be coached directly by Dr Harley's trained coaches, under his supervision, and that this would have nothing whatsoever to do with us here at the forums? Have you checked that she understands this, and does she still refuse the coaching?

I should add:

I'm not suggesting that you talk to your wife about coaching again. She seems to have made her vehement dislike of MB clear to you, and if you ask her again about it, that might well be a lovebuster. You are trying to win her round and certainly should not annoy her on this.

I am asking you to clarify this matter here for us. I don't think you should mention it to your wife again.

The specific answer is that I asked her to do coaching with Steve H and she adamantly refused. I have not checked in probably 6 months and to be honest would be scared to do so based on her previous comments about MB. She did say she would go to counseling but she has shut her mind off to anything with an MB attached to it. There was no attempt to muddle, sorry if you took it that way.

Thanks, Hill. I think that's an unequivocal answer, so we shouldn't need to ask it again for a while.

How does she feel about you continuing to post here? Does she know that you do?

She asks occasionally and I tell her. I would say that no she is probably not aware that I've been on here daily for the last 10 days working on my specific problem of being disrespectful.

You could start marriage Coaching by yourself.
Several do that. And the marriage Coach gives you advice.
The idea would be that she would see such great changes in you (because her love bank is being filled) that she would be more receptive to MB.

But... She said shes open to counseling?
Well that may be an open door for you. Call around and see if you can find a Marriage Builder Counselor.
There is an article here on how to locate a marriage counselor:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html.

So she's not entirely opposed to MB and the forums, then? That's promising! Keep working on it, Hill.

I'll consider this!

There was some meeting of my most important EN last night. There are some things I noticed that I need advice on. My wife is a competitive runner and is in incredible shape but is still self conscious about her body in numerous ways. No need to mention them specifically, and I've never treated her negatively or said anything disparaging about her body. For the most part I complement her on it frequently. Obviously there are changes after three children and a c-section and I think this is a huge barrier to SF for both of us. I noticed that if my wife has a glass of wine that SF happens more frequently, so as this is a rare occurrence because we are both training so much there are some things that need to be done in order to make her feel safe with me and comfortable about her body. Now that I play it back in my head, her self-esteem about her body occupies her mind constantly, in fact several times per day and her confidence really is unimproved with my verbal admiration. We are both losing 10 lbs before our vacation which is 3 weeks from now and we have both hit all of our goals. I'm mostly doing it for her, but one of the goals is to see if it improves how she sees her body. We never had this issue to contend with during the first five years of marriage but it definitely has compounded each year to the point where I think it occupies her thoughts just thinking about SF as well as during. Any suggestions?

Get on youtube and search "vagina monologues because he liked to look at it."


Watch.


Listen.


Learn.

Um ok. I guess you're being serious?

Absolutely serious.

Is it possible that my wife loves me very much(because she tells me so), but that sexual fulfillment is absent due to other reasons? Is it possible that a spouse can cross the threshold of love yet still not have any need/desire for SF? The reason I ask is because wife and I are doing amazing and have been for quite some time. Our UA time is solid, we rarely have a "tif" and even if we do we recover within 5 minutes. I think my main source of emptiness is because of SF. My wife promises and then declines constantly and each time she does it makes me feel unwanted. Its kind of like this creature that I have been getting along with so well at a moments notice can come up with any number of reasons why we can't have sex and if she does agree, she'll act like it is a huge pain in the butt. This is a MASSIVE blow to our relationship and my concern is that she feels we are in a romantic relationship, whereas I certainly do not. I've often said that from the outside looking in my wife feels everything is just fine, and that I'm the one that is unhappy. Maybe this is why? I won't apologize for wanting my most important emotional need met and I don't think I need to. My wife punishes me over this need and I honestly don't think she sees it as a need at all. I have my vasectomy scheduled for after vacation which in all honestly will be the last "hurdle" we need to cross. She never uses the fear of pregnancy any more like she used to when it comes to the reason of not wanting to meet this need. It is more of a, "Oh, today was rough not tonight" or "Too tired", etc. I don't think I can be part of the 20% of happily married couples without sexual fulfillment, but I also think that I'm working towards a goal of a perfect marriage that will likely not lead more SF. This is exhausting.

Have you considered doing the telephone counseling? I recall your wife is not enthusiastic about MB, but maybe Steve or Jennifer would be able to convey how important this is?

Sounds like you are doing all you can, and I would worry that you're not going to be able to keep that up long term without some love bank additions to your own account.

It is possible, but from what I've read, extremely unlikely.

Did she ever show an interest in sex?

Have you asked her (at a time when things are calm -- not in the heat of the moment!) why she declines and if there's anything you can change that would make her feel less like declining?

Don't put it on the objective, judgmental terms of trying to establish whether you are or are not in a romantic relationship.

The fact is she feels the relationship is good for her. (Although maybe it could be better.) Whereas you feel that the relationship is lacking for you, because of sex.

There's no need to hammer down who's right and wrong, that way. (i.e., no DJs)