i do too but they are not like hurting needles, it has calmed my anxiety so much, after a session it like whatever nothing bad phases me that is lasting up to 2 weeks, unless it was like last night but i am still like whatever i would have been out of my skin before - but look into some one who is licensed.

I will look into it

Hrm. I am all for non conventional medicine and all, but acupuncture still gives me the creepers.

RQ I'm glad to hear I am not the only one who has a messy car! Does the DS need apply to cars? LOL. I know it does, H has said things before about me having a messy car so I have actually worked hard over the last yr to keep at least the floors picked up from all the little toys, sweatshirts, etc. kids always leave in there, but still when you fold one of the back seats up the crumbs under it could feed a family of 5. Oh well, work in progress.

We did just POJA that HE would keep the outside of my car clean for me, because a clean car is more important to him than me, and my dad used to do that for my mom to 'take care of her' and so it makes me feel taken care of to have him clean my car.

Yes, my car (mini-van!) has a way of collecting stuff. My DD8 had 3 pairs of shoes in there. 3 pairs! I'm not sure how that happens. It doesn't bother me too much which is weird because household clutter drives me nuts!

Kiss is the same with me and does things like to take care of me. I wish I could see him demonstrate his protection of me so easily.

Is car maintenance/cleaning classified as DS or FS. Hard to separate that. (we have to trade cars a lot for work reasons though)

There is nothing unattractive about your sadness. I am like that a lot, too. Recovery is hard, yet such a relief. It's okay to cry when you need to.

my oesteopath uses acupuncture too. doesn't hurt, really!

RQ - i'll never forget my car when baby was one year old. cracker crumbs *everywhere!*

Ain'tready, DS is one of my top needs so he def got a check Mark for that for the day!
And I hope I didn't offend about the crying. I just don't want to appear weak. I'm feeling a lot more confident about myself. I am working on putting together my own boundaries and deal-breakers. So I know if kiss crosses them, what the consequences will be. It helps to put me back in control of things and my path.

Letty- I'm still finding crumbs!

Crumbs are good. Then when you are out of groceries and the kids get hungry you have somewhere to send them...go check under the back seat in the car...or what if you are stuck in a snow storm and you don't have food for days then you can eat the crumbs under the seat. So is it messy? Or is it PREPARED.

Speaking of crying and being 'attractive.' I struggle with this because I feel like I need to be on my A game all the time. I'm not, but when I'm not I feel guilty for not being. For instance, last week I was sick with a bad cold, house took a hit and I was not really energetic, didn't put the effort into myself, and I felt guilty like H comes home to a messy house, wife on the couch taking it easy, didn't feel real beautiful looking because I was sick... I know there will be those days, but I do feel guilt for it. Same as when you have sad days. What's the balance between RH and yet hiding some of the negative things going on so as to appear more attractive, even when you are struggling with sadness, illness, whatever.

I like that



Good question about RH. Personally, I'd rather keep it to myself. I don't want kiss to think I am bashing him by having to tell him why I'm upset. Can't we just recognize that I am having a moment (or day) and let it go? On another note, I had a trigger on saturday while at DD8 rollerskating party. A song came on that brought a bad memory and I tried to stick it out but my chest got tighter and tighter. I literally fled the building much to kiss's surprise. Apparently he didn't remember or know it was a trigger.

Went to church yesterday (finally) and did get a chance to talk to the Pastor afterwards. I filled her in on the past year and spoke to her about my not being able to forgive. Her thoughts were that I didn't have to do that before I was ready, that time will allow me to feel in my heart when it is ready to do so. She said that all I have to do right now is.....breathe. Sounds good, right?

I also wanted to include here a passage that was said during the service that I thought folks in recovery would be interested in hearing. It's from John 2:14 and 2:17

"What good is it for someone to say that he has faith if his actions do not prove it?" "So it is with faith, if it is alone and includes no actions, then it is dead"

It's important to be RH about where you are at but you don't have to bash Kiss in order to be RH; you don't have to bring up the past either. It can be tricky business but it's all in how you communicate it to him. You make it about you: what you need - where your giver and taker are at the moment - and how he can help you.

Last night, for instance, I was cranky. I didn't want to LB my H, however, in my crankiness. He asked how I was. I told him, "cranky." He asked if it was "in general or with someone/something in specific." I replied it was both: told him my taker felt overwhelmed and that I had much more on my plate than he and the boys, and yet - my giver was feeling guilty that I could not get everything done for everyone. (It was a longer convo than that - but you get the idea.) The key was in saying this calmly and rationally. H came over, hugged me, and asked for specifics so he could know how best to help me. He then got the boys together to get some things done around the house. Later, my giver was much more giving!

It's important to put your feelings into words in a way that is productive. One of the best skills you can learn.

How is the depression issue?

Sunny, that makes complete sense. I guess I just need to find a way to communicate it effectively.

The depression has been much better and I had been in a pretty good mood until kiss did a few things that bothered me. I have complained about them before and yet he still does them.

What do you do when your complaints are unheard?

Here's a good clip on radical honesty.
Radio clip on Radical Honesty

Well, it depends. When you originally "complained" did you do so in a manner that clearly and concisely told Kiss what you needed, wanted, and/or expected? If not, you need to do so. You go to him and say, "I mentioned before that it was a LB to me when you ______. Yet, you did _____ again yesterday. When you do ______ it makes me feel: sad/hurt/angry and withdraws a lot of units from your love bank."

If you've already explained this in detail, and he does ____ again, you let him know - at the time the LB is being done! This is important. "Kiss, you already know ____ is a LB to me, yet you are doing it right now."

Sometimes it takes us being shown actions as they are happening in order to bring about lasting changes.

Now, if he knowingly does _____ and disregards your feelings, it's time to sit down and hash out a POJA on ________.

There's also the possibility of using consequences for the negative behavior - depending on exactly what the behavior is. Remember - a tenet of MB is that the offending spouse should offer some sort of just compensation for LBs committed.

BH, thanks I'll listen to the clip

Sunny, I have done that. For example, I have said to him that it bothers me when he doesn't get up in the morning with and help me with the kids. And yet he continues to do it. He will apologize, but continue to do it. I would love to be able to stay in bed for an extra half an hour sometimes but I can't because this responsibilty seems to be laid on me.

Would it be a good idea for me to wtite out different lovebusters for him? I think the main thing with him is the IB.

When I first read the lovebusters information I was like, ya we don't really do any of those things. But then as time went on I was like, OH ya we do ALL of these things. You just don't recognize them as what they are at the time. Now little things are more recognizable for what they are.

I have found it very helpful to write them down when they occur, and save them for a conversation about how things are going. Otherwise it can get frustrating to have someone constantly calling 'lovebuster' on you (H does this with me, his use of the word lovebuster has become somewhat of a lovebuster...). I would prefer to have him discuss them in one of our 'review' sessions rather than spit them out whenever something annoying occurs, which apparently is a lot.

As far as this getting up early thing. I have kids so I get ya, only since we all get up early for us it is going to bed. H and I have POJA'd recently (but not really put into practice yet), having a night each week where one of us gets kid vacation, and can just lock ourselves in the bedroom to unwind and watch tv while the other puts kids to bed, or go to sleep early to catch up, or whatever. We have kids that don't like to go to bed so it can get to be a grind, and it is SO NICE to have a night off, for both of us. That way if we each have a night, we know there is a break coming and we feel like that break is fair, rather than it falling on my shoulders unless I ask for help (which happens to us moms). Maybe you can work with him on a solution like this?

Exactly! I thought the same thing. Now I am learning to recognize them

Sorry, I had to LOL at that while picturing it in my head.


Yes, we could work something out around his schedule.

Thanks!

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to blurt out, "Lovebuster!" every time something occurred. I meant that if it is something that Kiss doesn't realize he's doing, and that's why he is repeating the unwanted behavior, to gently point it out when it is happening.

But yes - otherwise, note it and discuss it when you are both in negotiation mode.

Yes, definitely make the LB's specific so that they can be avoided.

On this particular issue, it sounds like he is not enthusiastic about getting up with the kids; yet at the same time, it is a LB for him to NOT get up. This is the very type of situation where you use POJA.

Sit down with the "how can we brainstorm a solution to this..." Maybe you take turns getting up. Maybe you go to bed earlier...

Yes, a POJA issue. I think it would also be a good idea to have review sessions like UW has with her H.

As far as the RH goes, I think I am confused as to how to balance RH without bringing up the affair, which we are not supposed to talk about.