...the impression that following MB was a requirement...

Hmmmmmmm.....what a GREAT IDEA!

SQ, in your case, did WH ever "buy in" to the MB Plan? (Obviously it may be kenned that, if so, he also took a "buy out" package.)

I don't believe that the POJA is an option for marriage. I believe that it's essential for marriage. Those who do not follow that guideline face a lifetime of misery. That's because if spouses don't make their decisions with each other's feelings in mind, they end up trampling over each other's feelings, the way your husband has trampled over your feelings. If your husband feels that the POJA is something that can be violated occasionally, he'll have another affair, or do something else to ruin your life.

Markos and I negotiated a solution to a situation very similar to this. I have a hard time falling asleep, and he goes to sleep quickly and easily. I would often leave the bed to watch TV, and now no longer feel the need to. So it is possible to find a solution that makes you both happy.

But you're both going to have to be respectful of the other in order to do that. You're going to have to understand each other's point of view and desires, and it's going to take a LOT of brainstorming on both of your parts.

Viscountess- kiss has insomnia some nights, other nights he is falling asleep on the couch at 8pm. So I think an "as needed" solution would work. But as you guys said, it is a bandaid on his IB

If kiss doesn't care enough to follow through on his promises to you after he almost wrecked your marriage with an affair, then suggestions for how to get him to negotiate one problem will just be putting a band-aid on a festering wound.

I think you may have what I call the "electric fence" personality. People with such a personality walk down the road of life with an electric fence on each side of the road. And they are faced with a serious disadvantage -- the stroll is at night, the flashlight they use to look ahead is very dim, and the road takes sharp turns. That makes it difficult for them to see the electric fence, and they often stumble into it. As long as these people are on the path, they are usually very happy and optimistic about life. But, when they touch the fence they get a rude shock, and will do anything to get off of it and back onto the path. Once back on the path, they are happy again.

Better brains will remember - but it really sounds like KISS is an electric fence personality...

Well, I read it and it still doesn't make sense but it doesn't matter, I guess. Kiss has habits that needs changing. He'll either change them or he won't.

Referring back to my definition of personalities, you can predict the behavior of an electric fence personality when they touch their electric fence -- they do whatever they can to back away from it. If you seem to be pushing them onto the fence, they will fly into a rage in an effort to escape, because it's so painful. They usually don't know where the fence is located because of the path's sharp turns, and their dim flashlight, so they are stumbling onto it quite regularly, and expressing anger whenever it happens.

Once off the fence, however, they usually return to a very happy state, and try to forget the incident. Since the path takes sharp turns, they give up hope of learning from the past experience, because the fence will be somewhere else next time. So they figure it's best to just forget the whole thing.

These people have very little insight into what makes them happy and sad. That's why I use the analogy of the dim flashlight and sharp turns in the path. When I have a client with such a personality, I often seem to understand their likes and dislikes better than they do themselves, because my flashlight seems to be brighter than theirs. I remember what their last electric fence looked like, and the next one looks very similar. Their lack of insight makes them very impulsive and great risk-takers because they don't seem to learn from their past painful experiences. But their lack of memory of failure also makes them very optimistic and cheerful, as long as they are in the middle of their pathway.

1. Set ground rules to make negotiations pleasant and safe.

Before you begin to discuss your sexual problems with your husband, agree with each other that you will both follow these rules: (a) be pleasant and cheerful throughout your discussion of the issue, (b) put safety first--do not threaten to cause pain or suffering when you negotiate, even if your spouse makes threatening remarks or if the negotiations fail, and (c) if you reach an impasse, stop for a while and come back to the issue later.

Under no conditions should either of you be disrespectful or judgmental of each other's opinions or desires. Your negotiations should accept and respect your differences. Otherwise, your conversation will not be pleasant and safe.

2. Identify the problem from the perspectives of both you and your spouse.

Be able to state each other's position regarding your sexual issue before you go on to find a solution. What do you want in a sexual relationship and why do you want it? What does he want and why does he want it? Be careful to avoid negative expressions, and try very hard not to match a negative comment with another negative comment. If one of you expresses pessimism, or even anger, don't counter with an equal dose of negativity. Instead, try to sooth the person who is negative and if that doesn't work, take a break from the discussion. Avoid arguing with each other at all costs. If you can't discuss the issue without arguing, take a break and come back to it later. That's the way you will keep your distance from the electric fence.

3. Brainstorm solutions with abandon.

Spend some time thinking of all sorts of ways to handle the problem, and don't correct each other when you hear of a plan that you don't like -- you'll have a chance to do that during the fourth step. Your husband may suggest that the best way for you to renew your sexual desire of him is to just have sex with him whenever he wants. That would nail you to your electric fence for sure. Don't respond to his suggestion in a disrespectful way, just write it down along with other suggestions. If you give your intelligence a chance to flex it's muscle, you will have a long list of possible solutions.

4. Choose the solution that is appealing to both of you.

From your list of solutions, most of the solutions will satisfy only one of you but not both. However, scattered within the list will be solutions that both of you would find attractive. Among those solutions that are mutually satisfactory, select the one that you both like the most. If there are none that meet with your mutual approval, go back to brainstorming again so you can get a longer list of possibilities.

When couples have a serious conflict, I usually suggest a test of solutions before actually implementing any of them. That allows them to consider worthy alternatives even though one spouse may not yet be enthusiastic about it. The suggestions that may sound appealing may, in practice, not turn out to be very successful. On the other hand, there may be a solution that may not seem too useful, but in practice, it solves your problem.

Here's an excellent clip on forgiving the OW.
Radio clip on Forgiving the OW
Segment #2

Tell us what you think.

Just re-listened to this. One year later...

When Dr Harley talks about the just compensation in this clip, I think that kiss is good on the first part (the EPs) but lacking in the second part: rebuilding a romantic relationship with me.

I would agree.