I think the only thing one can do is try to sell it to them. I mean, what is in it for him Shine? Does HE want a better relationship or is he just fine with the way things are?

He is fine with the way things were....I don't think he'll be fine for too long with the way things are now but time will tell. I just don't want him thinking I'm withdrawn because I'm cheating or don't love him. I have told him the reason I don't talk to him on the phone when he does his daily check in is because he gets angry so often.

Tonight he was angry again because I want to float tomorrow and may not have anyone to go with me. I plan to check with the rental place and see if they have several groups going and if so I feel OK to go. (I'm an experienced floater and this is a novice level part of the river) H was asking me questions about my plans and using his irritated voice. He had a very long pause at which I remained totally silent then he said his brief goodbyes and hung up. That's better than him blowing up on me. Maybe he'll think it over and decide to be civil and just ask me nicely not to go if he's not comfortable with it.

What kind of things would you know that would temp him? It is different for everyone so only you may know this. (Such as my H really wanted a say in my spending & with this program... He got to have a say)

I wish I could think of something...I'm totally blank. I don't have a paying job. I keep the house and the kid and H and manage the finances. I've asked him to be more involved with finances but he leaves it to me. He's very passive when it comes to relationships...which he probably things is "being nice" and I see it as too lazy to do his part. I don't know of anything that he'd really like for me to start or stop doing that would make him agree to this. The leaving is all I can think of.

He doesn't mind me going and doing stuff by myself (as I have often in our marriage)Between his health issues and sleep issues and little time due to his job, it was rare for us to actually spend "fun" time together. He seems happy for me to be alone most of the time. and to leave me alone most of the time. The only thing he seems unhappy with is that I don't say "I love you" and don't kiss/hug him goodbye or ask him for sex or for snuggle time. (I've been turned down often...and I don't mean I asked every day either. Also with his anger issues I'm just not OK with making love to someone that's probably going to bite my head off the next day and someone who can't keep promises he makes to me....etc, etc....)

If tempting them wont work.... Then the only alternative is separation.

That's what I was coming up with too. frown

I was in the online course and can already tell you that Dr Harley would tell you to see a lawyer just in case but to kick HIM out of the marital home with a letter detailing that he must seek anger management now before anything else will be addressed. That you should plan on this taking at minimum a year just to practice his new habits.
This is what I did.
Change the locks, pack a bag for him & leave a letter for him outside the house. Then if he blows up- call the police.
Legally he would still have to take care of you but it would be up to him to find a place to live.

I don't think it's to this point yet. Of course if he was getting physical at all or if I felt there was nothing I could do to stop or avoid his outbursts I'm sure this would be a great plan. I'm glad you had the fortitude to do it and keep yourself safe. I hope things worked out for both of you.

*just please don't "talk" and grovel/beg for it.... Even if he agreed by that- they wont follow through.*

I'm noticing that talking (especially to someone who's use to ignoring me) doesn't do much except frustrate me and give him a target for his anger or ammo for the next argument. I'm pretty much done talking unless I have something pretty major to say. I don't beg or grovel. I haven't allowed him to make me feel that small but believe me it's been an interesting struggle! It's hard for me to understand why/how you can marry someone you love and then have to defend against them destroying you emotionally and psychologically. Perhaps he feels the same? I know I've not been perfect and will need to work on myself also.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and share your suggestions/experiences!

currently enrolled in the online program with coach