My WH and I have been separated for four months and I believe he is still in contact with the OW; although he says he is trying to separate from her, is confused, but they work together. He has expressed remorse, but has been unable to talk to me.<p>Jennifer Harley suggested I give him an "I desire" letter before he takes two weeks off to "sort out his head" and before I move to plan B. I have really tried to avoid any disrespectful judgements and express what I desire and give him the support I believe he needs to be able to talk. <p>Comments please -- they will be greatly appreciate (it's really long, my apologies)<p>dear >>>
It is truly sad what has happened to our marriage. I know that you are struggling and it is perhaps the most painful to know that I have hurt you in a way that makes you afraid to talk to me. I know that I did some things that make you wary, but I also think you may be experiencing incredible guilt that is also making it difficult to forgive yourself and to talk.<p>I too am wary of returning to what our marriage had become and I want something radically different. That is not to say that it was all bad, but that we fell into some patterns that were destructive for both of us.<p>I want to be more than your best friend again. Not that being your best friend is insignifcant, but that I want for you to feel passion for me again and for me to feel that passion for you.<p>I believe it is possible to regain romantic love is care and understanding can enter our hearts and minds. The misunderstandings and lack of care from the past need to be understood and then put away.<p>I know that I did not provide love in the way you connect the most. I do not know what happened to the connection and passion that was once there -- the craving of time and flesh and the need to connect physically. I want that so badly now.<p>I don't believe you can go back and re-create what once was and I am not sure that is what I am searching for now. I do believ that having had that connection and the deeper care and love I feel now can lead us to a new relationship where that connection can happen at a deeper level.<p>I desire friendship and intimacy. I desire romance and passion and enjoying your attentions and caresses. I desire someone to explore life with spiritually and physically. I desire someone to hike with in places I have never seen and to re-explore places I have been, but not really seen. I desire to be with a person who helps me explore what I can be. I desire to be open to this exploration because I trust that person to take care with my thoughts and dreams. I desire someone who believes in me and my abilities and helps me use those abilities for the noblest of purposes. I desire to be able to provide the same for my husband. To love him.<p>I believe I somehow found myself on a path of ambivalence and ignorance. I believe now that what I have created, caused, or contributed to is not enough. I was selfishly guarding myself, but to what end?<p>I know that it is scary to make such a leap of faith when the sting of rejection and hurt inflicted on eachother has dulled but not disappeared. I cannot guarantee, but believe it is possible, that we will get to a place of the type of mutual love and understanding that I believe meets both of our desires in life.<p>I do know that without trying we will never know. I want a different relationship, but not with someone else. I want it with you. I know I want to understand your desires and dream and I want to help you achieve them.<p>These past few months have been difficult but somewhere dep in my soul and being I have found a patience, love and care that I think has been hidden for a long time. I know I have hurt you in the past and do not completely understand how afraid you might be to open up to me. I do know that I let you down and did not allow myself to love you the way either of us needed to really nourish and enhance our love.<p>I do not know what the future holds, but I know I believe in you and always have -- I don't think I was very good at expressing that love, care, admiration and attraction I feel for you. My heart still leaps when you walk in a room with a spark of recognition that you are an incredible and special man.<p>More than anything in this world, I would like to be able to put the mistakes of the past behind us and build a stronger, more open and fulfilling relationship.<p>I need to outline for myself and for you what I believe trying means. The pain, fear and emptiness that I continue to experience every day is the direct result of my fear that you have not separated completely from XX. You see eachother every day at work and teh odds are very high that you cannot disconnect from her and give our relationship a chance while that connection still exists. I know it will seem I am asking a lot, but I really cannot see another way.<p>I also believe we would benefit from joint counseling that help us frame our conversation and our potential future. <p>I would be open to your moving home while we sort all of this out. I miss your smile, conversation, friendship, support and affection.<p>These are all your choices to make, but I wanted to be more clear on what steps I thought might help if you would like to try and build a new relationship.<p>I love you. unsureheart

unsureheart,
Your letter is great. Good luck....

Love her madly -- Thank you so much for reading it and feedback.

shamelessly bumping up for comments please

I didn't know this was called an "I Desire" letter, but here's one I sent to my W, and I'm sharing it in the hope that it can help someone else:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I cannot help but feel that your relationship is not over and I would really like to talk about it...I’ve been patient, and I'll continue to be patient, but I feel that that won't last forever. I would like you to understand that I don't know when my patience will end, or when my love for you will diminish to the point where I won’t want to; I have been patient because I love you, and I want our marriage to work, I understand how hard this is for you, and that it takes time. But I’m afraid that if it takes too much more time, it may be too late for us.<p>It would be fabulous for our marriage if you work really, really hard on quitting ALL contact with the other man, and all the other aspects of your “secret second life”, and I would really appreciate your talking to me about it...I know that this is very hard for you, that there’s an emotional attachment that can’t be broken easily. I understand emotional affairs quite well now, and I know they are just as destructive as physical affairs, but I am here to help. I really am, and I think I can help you…if you’ll let me.<p>Part of what I feel is that you have created a separate life without me outside of our home. I no longer feel like I’m part of your life, part of your plans, part of anything except the guy who’s at home and with things related to the children. I feel like we’re friends and parenting partners more than we are true husband and wife partners. Don’t get me wrong; things at home have been great; I think we both have worked on it, and we both see it and appreciate it. I certainly do. I want to have a wonderful, connecting, fulfilling marriage again, but I can only do so much to make it happen by myself.<p>I cannot ask you to do anything, will not try to force you to do anything, but at the same time, I feel I cannot allow myself to be disrespected to this level much longer and continue to be genuine and honest about trying hard to fix our marriage. A few months ago I was doing what I was doing out of fear, but now I know that I will be OK whether we make it or not, so I want us to find a way to make it because I love you and want you, not because I fear losing you. And nothing would be better than for us to be working together, helping each other out, supporting each other and understanding each other as we go through this difficult time.<p>Trust should begin to be re-established between us, and the basic rule for that should be that both of us should think about what we say and do, and if we wouldn’t do it or say it with the other one standing right next to us, it’s probably disrespectful and not a good thing. I know this will not happen overnight, but we should try to start it.<p>We should to get to a point where we are both working together for our marriage, where we can discuss and agree on certain goals and steps we will be working to reach together; and where we both support each other in that pursuit, and in overcoming our individual personal obstacles.<p>I have found many sources of support and information which have helped me, and I’ll be happy to share those with you because I think they’ll help you as well. In fact, there are women who have been/are in your same situation who would be happy to communicate with you and help you through this, and I’ll be happy to connect you to them. I have found much support and good advice, and much of what you see me doing comes from that.<p>I love you, I wish for us to be the best that we can be, and I wish for us to be that together…like we once dreamed it would be…before we let life get in the way…I truly love you. I truly want us to find a way to make our marriage work for both of us.
<hr></blockquote>

Thanks for adding your letter. This type of letter is something that isn't specifically mentioned in SAA that Jennifer Harley suggested where the WH/WW does not want to talk or is unable to talk due to guilt. I don't necessarily think it is intended to have the result of catalyzing the WH/WW into ending the A, but it at least gives a forum for expression on the part of the BS. In my case -- and it sounds similar in yours -- my WH doesn't really hear what I am saying and I don't really think he's noticing plan A efforts because he seems to be deep in the fog. He also feels incredible guilt (which he admitted once a few weeks ago) and doesn't have any idea how to forgive himself.<p>He won't read the Harley books. He looks at the titles of the books I am reading and thinks they are all "marketing ploys with no real substance". He did read Private Lies and is supposedly reading Passionate Marriage, but I don't think the concepts have sunk in yet. I just don't know because he won't talk about anything.<p>Thank you again for posting your letter. I could have used some of your language in mine.

unsureheart,<p>Great letter. I've been working on one of my own. My WW is lost in the fog too. I haven't spoken to her in a while. I'm hoping the letter will let her open up to me again.<p>Good luck!<p>Feeling Lost

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>Thanks for adding your letter. This type of letter is something that isn't specifically mentioned in SAA that Jennifer Harley suggested where the WH/WW does not want to talk or is unable to talk due to guilt. I don't necessarily think it is intended to have the result of catalyzing the WH/WW into ending the A, but it at least gives a forum for expression on the part of the BS. In my case -- and it sounds similar in yours -- my WH doesn't really hear what I am saying and I don't really think he's noticing plan A efforts because he seems to be deep in the fog. He also feels incredible guilt (which he admitted once a few weeks ago) and doesn't have any idea how to forgive himself.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>In my case, although my WW does recognize that I have made changes, and that the changes are good, I believe she is still in denial about the A, its effects on the M and on me, and has found a comfortable place where I'm not snooping and giving her a hard time, so I felt she was getting too comfortable in her continued contact with the OM. As of now, she doesn't know what "Plan A" means, although she has started reading "Fall In Love, Stay In Love" on Steve Harley's suggestion.<p>I felt it was a necessary "wake-up" call to let her know that 1. I do not believe the A is over, 2. That regardless of how nice I'm being and how I'm working on the M, the A needs to be discussed/processed, and 3. That I'm not going to hang around forever waiting for this to happen.<p>I also believe my W feels a tremendous amount of guilt, especially since this is her second A (the first was 14 years ago) and just does not want to face having to admit it/talk about it/face my reactions to it...who knows?<p>Also, she just does not think she's done anything wrong, and she feels perfectly justified in having a secret R that I neither know about, nor have a right to know about, nor have the right to question...???? VERY heavy fog! Or denial...who knows!?!?!?<p>I do think SOME of it sunk in, or at least made an impression on her because even though she's not commented about it to me, she has made a much bigger effort at meeting my ENs and has been a bit less defensive when we have talked, and has come back to me with several small things and said things like "you're right about this" or "I think we do need to talk more" and things like that. Perhaps it was helpful...every little bit helps!<p><strong> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
He won't read the Harley books. He looks at the titles of the books I am reading and thinks they are all "marketing ploys with no real substance". He did read Private Lies and is supposedly reading Passionate Marriage, but I don't think the concepts have sunk in yet. I just don't know because he won't talk about anything.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Although at first I did give her books (Divorce Remedy, and others), as well as numerous articles from Harley and others, she did not read them or acknowledge reading them...feels it's "my way" or that I'm trying to show her the way, which she resents...so I stopped.<p>I am very surprised Private Lies did not elicit a response from your H; that's a pretty hard-line book on affairs and lying! Must be denial, guilt and fog!<p>Isn't it weird when they don't talk about anything?!?!? It blows my mind! It's been 9 months for me since DDay and we have barely talked about it...just bizzare! Dozens of conversations, letters, books, articles, IC and MC sessions, and they don't have a thing to say!<p><strong> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Thank you again for posting your letter. I could have used some of your language in mine.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I wish I'd seen your post earlier, as I'd have posted my letter to it....next time! Where is your "main post" or more complete story? I'd like to read it.<p>Thanks for your insight and input as well USH!<p>[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</p>

Hi spacecase -- I was floored when I read this was your WW's second A. My WH's first A occurred before we were married (14 years ago too), but while we were in what I thought was a committed relationship of three years. Never fully processed that and swept in under the rug. Young, stupid, and feeling infalible or something. It certainly affected our marriage and I just could not see it until the second A resurfaced all of the pain, loss of dignity, denial, and everything else. Pretty stupid for two overly educated adults. <p>My full story doesn't really appear anywhere as one cohesive story, but in bits and pieces as I've learned more about myself, my WH and the A. I guess the synopsis would be that we both knew our marriage was not everything it could have been/should have been and many things got pushed aside for our careers. I woke up one day and realized I couldn't do both anymore and changed jobs. When I started to focus on us, it became obvious to me that my WH had checked out/was likely in an affair with a new employee. <p>We tried marriage counseling, but he lied throughout the counseling. I just knew that all of sudden everything wrong in the world or with my WH was my fault. Our long planned vacation to Hawaii for two weeks and great expense was a joke. He supposedly was "working" on line on a critical deal every morning while we were there. Rather than confront him, I just told him that I was really disappointed that work took up so much of his time. Little did I know that our romantic vacation was being spent in an online EA predominantly about recounting their sexual encounters and how they would be together someday.<p>I confronted him several times last summer about the problems I thought existed and he kept denying anything was wrong. My big wake up call should have been when I thought I was finally pregnant -- after years of not being so and not admitting how disappointed I was and the decline in our sex life -- his reaction was "I can't believe you are pregnant. Now is not a good time". Why I didn't have the epiphany then is beyond me. Big red flag.<p>After months of trying marriage counseling and thinking he was depressed or drinking, my father had cardiac problems and I just snapped. I was tired of being treated like cr#$ and I asked him to move out. Things calmed down for a couple of months and he was incredibly supportive of my need to spend time with my father. I think he was being supportive, but also found it convenient to indulge in his A.<p>I finally discovered many things by snooping, which I was not proud of but I felt like I was losing my mind. I found receipts for expensive weekends away at many of the hotels where we had previously had romantic and loving times, but these receipts were for times without me. I found computer files containing emails between WH and co-worker declaring their love and how it was just a matter of time before my WH found a way to end my marriage "with respect". <p>I was devastated. I asked him to move out immediately, which was in hindsight a mistake, but also kept me from completely lovebusting. I didn't find this site or the MB books for about a month and have been trying desperately to do the best plan A I can muster.<p>Every day is a challenge as my WH is pretty typical fog creature-- a) everything in the marriage is my fault, b) we were never compatible, c) he loves me but is not in love with me, d) he never communicated his disatisfaction, but that is also entirely my fault, and e) I shouldn't ask him any questions.<p>I have spent the time focused on learning what I did wrong and I did plenty. I was not honest about where I spent my money/didn't consider it our money. I was very guilty of sarcasm and disrespectful judgements and the occasional angry outburst when my husband retreated into his self righteous silence mode. I regret so many things, but I also know that we did have many wonderful, loving and fulfilling times in the 14 years we have been together.<p>I have also spent the time regaining physical strength. When we met I was probably considered an athletic hottie and that had certainly gone away as I concentrated more on my career. <p>I am humbled by the people on this website. So many others are dealing with much more than I am and it has been an inspiration to me. <p>That's the briefest version of this I can muster. <p>Tonight is a particular struggle because I gave my WH the letter and he has not called or given any indication that it touched him in any way. I guess that is too much to expect right away.

Having a bad night. Watched a program on african lions which reminded me of my younger days when I worked there as a wildlife biologist. Made me sad to think where my life has gone. <p>Mostly bad because I haven't heard from WH after giving him the letter. He usually calls every night, but he hasn't called in two days. I know in the scheme of things that is not a very long time and that I should be more patient. <p>It's been awhile since I just started weeping for no apparent reason and couldn't stop. Tonight was bad and I hope my neighbors didn't poke their noses over the fence to see me pulling weeds while crying my eyes out. I just had to be outside.

unsureheart,<p>I've not looked at the posts for a few days and was amazed to see your "desire" letter. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
It's been really hectic, so I'll print it out & read it & give feedback if still interested.<p>What amazed me is that I am moving closer to plan b & wanted to write the type of letter you posted here. I had not seen anyone else post theirs on the board. I will post mine as it is, but after reading these, realize that I need to change mine completely. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>For me, I wasn't very good at being vulnerable or asking for what I wanted/needed. Also wasn't very good at praising WH and lifing him up. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>D.

unsureheart,<p>Just read through this entire post & see you have sent the letter. It was great & heartfelt. Will be looking to see his reaction to the letter. I will post my letter here for feed back & so that there is 1 thread with this type of letter

Here's my attempt at the letter for feedback )I am going to rethink my letter after reading the 2 of yours. This is not the 1st A for my H either. <p>Dear WH,<p>Things have been pretty insane the last two months with all the time and effort put into CC. I haven’t told you how incredible you are lately. (I have been burnt out with nothing to give it seems) When you decide on a project, you see it through until it is right or it is done. You plow through obstacles and make things happen. <p>It’s no secret that we view things very differently at times. Presently your focus is on the business, while mine is on our relationship first and then the business. I feel that as our relationship improves, that our business will improve. I do this business to support you, because I am your wife, and I love you. I want you to be successful and prosper. <p>Right now, I am having a hard time keeping going in this business. The business is making progress & have come a long way in a short period of time. I need to feel that we are on the same team and right now, I don’t feel that way. The foundation of our marriage is in shambles. The debris is lying at our feet and we’ve been stepping over it, just focusing on the business. We are business partners and to some extent co-parents, but not marriage partners. I love you and want this marriage to work. <p>You may have wondered why I have asked you to contact Steve Harley at Marriage Builders. You had said that you didn’t think much of counselors, and for the most part I agree. I feel that Steve Harley and Marriage Builders are different and I would like to share with you why……<p>Flash back, October 9, 2001, the night I took all my stuff out of your trailer after finding you and J. there. I had come to the realization that you had been having an affair. Later that night when we spoke, I told you “It was over” then repeated something you had told me 26 years before “Smile Blondie, life is too short.” You were so right & I told you I wasn’t living like this anymore. I thought that meant getting a divorce would be the answer. When I left Pennsylvania, I felt at that point that our marriage was over, hopeless. Neither on of us had been happy for a long time. I knew something was wrong, I just wasn’t sure what it was or how to fix it.<p>The shock I felt, the betrayal and hurt was almost overwhelming. It felt like my heart had been ripped from my chest and left dangling, bleeding and pulsing. My whole world turned upside down, couldn’t eat, sleep or concentrate for a long time. When I got back to Florida, I saw an attorney to pursue getting a divorce. I just couldn’t imagine how we could ever get through this.<p>Later on in October, friends in church asked how I was & I broke out in tears. They prayed and sought God’s help for me. Not long afterwards I went to an old email account that I hardly ever used anymore. There were more than 350 unread emails. I scanned through them and only opened 2 of them. One was a newsletter that had an article on infidelity! That floored me. One, because I didn’t know anything like that existed and two, of the more than 350 emails, I pick this one. Co-incidence?<p>From there I found Marriage Builders and Steve Harley. When I read the principles and story after story of marriages in recovery, I began to think that there was hope for us. If they could do it, then so could we. Some were in even worse circumstances than us) It gave me hope. Marriage Builders had books, articles on the web and discussion forums. I read them all.<p>My feeling changed in that I wanted to try to work things out and that I was willing to do whatever it took to recover and restore our marriage. I didn’t know if we would or could, but I did know that I loved you deep down inside (not what you did). That no matter if we ended up getting divorced or staying married, that I wanted to leave no stone unturned. <p>Fast forward to today, our best efforts got us where we are. I feel like if we do nothing and keep going where we are headed, that we may end up divorced or in an affair. Next time, it might be me, as my needs are not being met in the marriage either. <p>That’s why I’ve asked you to call Steve Harley to set up an appointment to see what the next step is. Let me know when you set up your appointment, as he would like me to set up one shortly after yours. What I’ve told you is not to threaten or manipulate you, but to express the hope Marriage Builders and Steve Harley have given me that we can pick up the pieces of our marriage and have a new marriage better than anything we had before. <p>Steve’ # is 888-639-1639
WWW.Marriagebuilders.com -On home page is section on Questions about infidelity

With all my love,<p>
d.
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I have been in IC with Steve H. & my WH did 1 session. Steve has stressed that WH is to call him to figure out the next step, as our situation is complicated and it's not just a simple answer. (Then again is there such a thing?)<p>Thanks for posting & thanks in advance for reading & posting your response(s) [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]