My WW has stopped seeing the OM (I think). She rarely talks to him anymore (two to three times a week just to see what is up). She has been going through withdrawl (I think because she has been depressed and reducing contact slowly). When you have so slow of a dying A, when do you begin the recovery stage. I so wish I can move to this, but how do you know when to begin? She has not agreed to complete no contact yet, but she said she is ready. I will not push her for a no-contact agreement, but I will continue to work it into a conversation when she starts talking about the OM. Do I wait for the no-contact agreement, because I am not sure this will ever occur? She is still considering going back to work and it is possible that she will occassionaly see the OM for business reasons. I think her strong feelings for him are nearly dead. He has been doing some major LB'ing and she sees him the way her really is.<p>One more thing. I came home yesterday at around 6:00, and she was dressed in a shirt and panties, NO SHORTS!! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Does this mean anything?? Should I be reading into her actions?? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I tried to be affectionate with her and there was no response, so I am not sure if this had any meaning. What do you think?

Dreamland, I think before recovery is even remotely possible there's going to have to be better communication. Right now you have NO IDEA where you stand or what she's thinking, and she has no idea of how hard of a time you're having because you don't share that with her. In order to have recovery you have to be working together...to work together you have to have some sort of dialogue!<p>Do you wait for the NC agreement? Well, I doubt this is something she will do on her own, especially since she doesn't seem to understand how deeply it's hurting you. But maybe if you two talk about it and you explain to her that in order to feel safe in the marriage again you need NC...well, if she's ready to commit to the marriage again she'll do it without argument...or if she's nearing ready she'll complain a bit, but do it anyway. If she refuses...she's not ready. As long as she thinks the marriage works by her rules only...recovery will be a failure.<p>I have no idea what to read into the panties thing. Sometimes I lounge around that way and it doesn't mean anything except I'm trying to be comfortable. I think you guys REALLLLY need to talk. Maybe time to go elephant hunting??

Dreamland,
OM LBing, fantasy ending, reality beginning those are good signs.<p>Continued personal contact is not. Especially if she is initiating it. The thing about checking to see how someone is...is it is self-perpetuating. A call at 10 am "how ya doin'" leads to a 2 pm, "I wonder how he's doing NOW" or the next day or the next week, because event, feelings happen in everyone's lives. She'll be calling when something happens, "just to let him know".<p>No contact is really important, unless the WS is sick to death of the OP and wants them out of their life entirely. Or the OP feels that way about the WS. "Friends" isn't an option. She needs to fine a friend she hasn't slept with.<p>As for her attire, no idea. She might have just spilled on herself and hadn't made a new wardrobe decision. Since she didn't respond to you, it seems it wasn't for your benefit. It was worth a try for you though [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Don't worry about the starting point of recovery. Recovery is a process, it may have started, it may not. Your job is Plan A, to be the best H you can be for this time. That's what you can control.<p>If you choose Plan B or divorce those are other options you can decide on later.

hope4future,<p>I am worried about talking about my feelings because I am scared it will be LB'ing. Is it possible to talk about all of this stuff without it being a big LB? I think there is little danger about her running into the arms of the OM like a month ago, but I still am scared. My Plan A that works with her is to never bring up the OM unless she brings it up, never to demand anything especially NC, and to minimize my outward expressions of hurt. I will remind her only on a rare occasion of the pain she continues to inflict. <p>She is still very weak and very fragile. She is still at a turning point and about to make decisions on her own. She has an apointment to talk to her boss next thursday about her future with the company. She will try to push her boss to allow her to work for a different area of the bank so she will not have to do work for the OM. I think I will wait till then to see what decision she will make in all of this. We can afford for her to stay home so if she choses not to work, she has that option.<p>Maybe soon it will be time to tell her about my secret life at this website, but if I do that, I will not be able to unload like I do now.<p>I have heard the term elephant hunting at this website, and I am going to see exactly what this means. <p>Thanks again for your help.

I think you're right on about the timing...probly NOT a good time to open up about your feelings when she's got so much going on yet.<p>Is it possible to talk about how you're feeling without it being an LB? ABSOLUTELY!! Have you read Passionate Marriage yet?? That might be something for you to focus on in this in-between time.<p>Right now she's still licking her own wounds. When these other decisions are made and there's more of a plan for the future....then you can work towards recovery together.<p>It is important, though, once you're in recovery to be totally honest about your thoughts and feelings. Sensitive, but honest. It doesn't do anyone any good if you try to avoid hurting her feelings, but end up hurting yourself. In Plan A, yes, but not in recovery.

Lor,<p>She knows that she can not be just friends. (thank God for that). However, she still is hanging on to the OM. I think she is waiting for him to show that he loves her so that she does not feel like a tramp. I am sure this will not happen, because OM was using her to get back at OMW who just a month or so before my D-day his OMW told OM about her EA/PA's (two over 5 years). OM and OMW were on real rocky grounds as you can see.<p>She agrees that she needs to come to a NC agreement, but she has been saying this for months and she still has not done it.
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hope4future,<p>Funny you should mention "Passionate Marriage". I ordered the book last week, can't wait to get it. My hobby now is my marriage and I have run out of good material.

If she doesn't consider him a friend, then what is this:<p>She rarely talks to him anymore (two to three times a week just to see what is up). <p>I'll tell you what it is [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] it is an indication she says one thing "he & I can't be friends" but her actions show differently--calling him 2-3 times a week.<p>When actions and words conflict ALWAYS believe the actions.<p>If she talks to him, so that he tells her he loves her, so she doesn't feel like a tramp...the A isn't over. PA may be. EA no. Since she is having this contact, true withdrawal has not started. Each conversation at this point sets her back at zero. <p>That doesn't mean this stage won't get better, it is possible. Hope that he keeps lovebusting so she doesn't want to talk to him, or realizes how futile it is to talk with him.<p>So, I've probably brought you down. I'm sorry. But I would suggest you keep doing Plan A at this point through the time of her appointment at the bank for her job, and encourage no contact, including conversation. If she is agreeing she should come to a no contact agreement, the time is now or very soon. But a job change would help her stick to it.<p>Otherwise you simply have a cakeperson on your hands...she likes having you, she likes talking to the OM. That won't change because it works for her.<p>My H's FOW is still a co-worker. Their PA began & stopped 3-4 times over an 18 month period. It was a very tough situation. Finally she began dating his housemate (also a co-worker for both of them) during one of the times we reconciled. The EA lasted a bit longer and nearly led to my divorcing him. They do avoid each other at work, but I don't enjoy his work Xmas parties.