Well, it's been about a week now of Plan B...<p>So far, so good. Haven't fallen over dead. Haven't grown a superfluous third nipple. Haven't given up quite yet.<p>But it is kind of hard. I do need to remind myself regularly - hourly - why I am where I am. It has brought a degree of relief to me, and that's a good feeling. Too good in some ways [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I talked to SH today. Good talk. Caught him up to date. Maybe surprised him with things - we were supposed to be talking about B details this go round, not talking about it past tense. But as he put it, it all looks good on paper... have to wait and see what WW does with her ol' free will thingy.<p>His main concern right now is that she's operating on a flawed belief system - about the nature of romantic love. But others have been there, too, and I can't educate her - she's got to do it for herself. My attitude is this: if she educates herself, she will come out of the fog and we can get to work; if she doesn't... geeze, I really don't WANT her! I mean, I can't compete against some characture of what romantic love is to her! I don't want that!<p>I also talked to IC/MC last night. It was good also. She affirmed my approach of NC - that otherwise, WW might continue to have reason to fence sit. I felt like she was thinking I was doing the right thing, too. I get the impression lots of people do [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But... I do question myself a little bit. I mean, we were seemingly getting along better. Now, I know the story for most cases where Plan A "seems to work" - it's not so much that Plan A changes the WS, but that the A dies its natural death while the BS is in Plan A. That's what might have been happening here too. I know for a fact that WW and OM had been spending less time together - WW was even possibly questioning whether she was "losing him"!!<p>My attitude on that issue is this: if my going to Plan B hurts the chances for the M, it's by a conscious choice of WW - I've made my position so very clear time and again. My leaving can be perceived however she wants... but if she's going to use it as "justification" for whatever - then once again, I do question whether I want to spend my life with someone like that.<p>I feel good about my strong action, really. As when I confronted OM, it was an act of courage, a leap of faith. It allows me to walk away in the position of holding dignity and grace, and that's something I'll always value. I was pretty tough with her... but I also tried to be loving, and prove by action that I can meet any EN out there.<p>I think WW thinks that she can be just as happy with either me or OM - that she can fulfill her dreams and can take anyone along for the ride. I think she has a lot of stuff to sort through before she "gets it." Gets that with OM, she's got to stare over the kitchen table at someone who she can't respect - and doesn't respect, because she was more than willing to keep stringing him along at least as much as she did with me... the lies, the lack of trust were something I enlightened OM to. I think he is backing off... and if he knew that she was fully available now... I think it'd scare the cr@p out of him... after all, now he'd have suddenly inherited this selfish girl who has plenty of issues, and he wouldn't have a clue how to deal with them!<p>As for what I do now... I concentrate on myself for once! I went out with friends on the weekend - that was nice. I've got a house to take care of - that'll be good. I can regain my professional attitude at work - that'll be super. Of course, I do need to protect myself also, as SH pointed out. I can understand why, especially now.<p>SH also suggested that if WW starts making noises like she wants to talk reconciliation - to get her to call him (or our MC). As he put it, I'm in no real position to be judging her attitude right now - let a professional do it! Sounds good to me. If she's serious, she'll be willing to do a whole lot more than she has in the past. Right on!<p>SH asked me if I thought she believed me when I told her that I was doing this to protect my love for her. I guess it's possible that she doesn't, based on how we seemed to be getting along together... But in one of those quiet moments alone, I hope she reflects for a moment on how she'd feel in my shoes... she's told me she has, actually, and I'm sure felt some terrible pain. Her attitude during those moments when she has talked about MY pain - has shown that it's that pain that affects her most acutely.<p>So now, she has a chance to "live out her wildest dreams" with OM. That's what that offers, right? Perfection! Ha! Even she admitted in a recent e-mail that she's found disappointment everywhere she's turned lately. And my guess is that includes OM. The bloom came off that rose a long time ago. Yet she still holds onto the fairy dust...<p>But before, she COULD hold onto it, because I was always there as a safe haven. Now, any small thing between her and OM is amplified. I recall another poster's WS admitting that their love for BS was pretty constant - but their feelings for OP came and went easily. I think that's pretty normal, and based on the fact that it's not real LOVE that's being felt - it's an infatuation-based emotion that if absent, leaves a huge void - or the reality of someone who you can't truly respect, having helped create a mess in your life.<p>I think WW believes her feelings for me come and go easily - that's the way she acts. But in reality, it may be the feelings for OM that cloud the picture. Since someone can only love 1 person at a time, you get a strong inverse correlation going. In fact, her feelings for me are a constant too. (I found another e-mail from her, about 2 weeks before d-day, flirting, calling me Babe, signing it Love... are those the words of someone who doesn't care?)<p>When I told SH about the recent SF binge, he had an interesting observation... her issue might not be so much a "wall" that needs to be knocked down - but more based on instant gratification and selfishness. Oh yeah! Definitely! She's even been able to admit this as of late - that her selfish side has gotten her into trouble in the past. It's sad, because she could recognize this, then slide right back into the fog. I worry that her return to the fog has been due to my leaving - that maybe, just maybe if I'd stayed, things would have continued to improve... I covered this before, didn't I? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think you can tell that I'm developing a strong attitude right now. That I really am prepared to accept any outcome. My hope is that I can remain motivated for about 6 months to wait out in Plan B. For me, that's enough time. With no kids, I can do a near perfect one, if I can just get a few more logistic points out of the way... even with things to deal with, I've been "strictly business" but not harsh or mean (although who knows if she perceives me that way).<p>Well, this was both an update and a vent, I guess. A few questions do come to mind for past Plan B'ers, or people who've had separations...<p>1. How long did your Plan B last?
2. Did your WS "get it" - about why you needed NC? Did they respect it?
3. Were there any signs you could see that they were "cracking" over time, leading up to the eventual desire to "come home"?
4. What was the outcome?

Third nipples open the secret gate to the land of Narnia [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Plan B your butt off JR and good luck.
Layli

Sounds like you are doing great! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't post much, but have been following some situations that are similar to mine.<p>My plan A has put me in a better place also....in my M and in my own head! Hang tough and 'stay the course'.<p>Gib

Good job so far, J.R. You've got all your tools available and you're using them. Very good job.<p>Now to your questions. I'll answer although my experience isn't necessarily a good one to reference.<p>1. How long did your Plan B last?<p>Commenced July 2001. Still in progress, sorta.<p>2. Did your WS "get it" - about why you needed NC?
I don't think so. She concluded that this was just another attempt to control her.<p>Did they respect it?<p>Yes, she seemed quite content to not communicate with me. At one point she claimed she also experienced a lot of pain communicating with me. Steve H. laughed out loud at that news.<p>3. Were there any signs you could see that they were "cracking" over time, leading up to the eventual desire to "come home"?<p>None whatsoever.<p>4. What was the outcome?<p>Continued denial, defiance, blame shifting, revisionist history. Essentially, Plan B had no effect on the WS from my vantage point. WS filed for divorce 5 months into Plan B, divorce was final March 2002, and WS hasn't looked back, best I can tell.

I want a third nipple now! No one TOLD ME it would open the gate to Narnia or I woulda gotten one sooner! I'll have to surf the net now...I'm just sure there's a cream or pill for it somewhere. After all, these idiots keep insisting they can add inches to my penis...(although I'm fairly sure they're wrong [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hope4future:
<strong>After all, these idiots keep insisting they can add inches to my penis...(although I'm fairly sure they're wrong [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )</strong><hr></blockquote><p>h4f - I coulda swore you were a chick. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I AM a chick...which is why I am SURE they're wrong. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>His main concern right now is that she's operating on a flawed belief system - about the nature of romantic love. But others have been there, too, and I can't educate her - she's got to do it for herself. My attitude is this: if she educates herself, she will come out of the fog and we can get to work; if she doesn't... geeze, I really don't WANT her! I mean, I can't compete against some characture of what romantic love is to her! I don't want that! <hr></blockquote><p>Yay you! I like this!<p>I think you are dong great! Thanks for the great update.<p>Now for your PLan B questions, I will give you mine also, although I'm another one that ended in divorce. The kicker now I guess is that's he's NOW coming back AFTER the divorce, AFTER the A has ended, and wanting to be "friends for now". I'm sure other B'ers will be along. Seems I've seen threads in the past about "Plan B success stories", if you wanna try searching for that.<p>1. How long did your Plan B last?<p>Started on 12/19/01. Divorce final on 3/1/02. I would say the end of PLan B was when WS contacted me on 5/5/02 with big apology and seemingly hitting near bottom. Been cautiously taking baby steps - requiring NC with OW, IC for WS, and honesty and respect.<p>2. Did your WS "get it" - about why you needed NC? Did they respect it?<p>For the most part. There was one other phone call in April, as the A was on rocky ground and he was alone and upset. Prior to that, the only contact we had was business details and settlement negotiation via e-mail. He seemed VERY content to be away from me and my family's "controlling" communication.<p>3. Were there any signs you could see that they were "cracking" over time, leading up to the eventual desire to "come home"?<p>As mentioned before, there were no attempts at contact for 4 months, then there was the one frantic phone message in April. Then the phone call at midnight on 5/5. No desire to "come home" (we are divorced), but strong desire for my friendship, and desire to learn what happened, and "some" remorse. <p>4. What was the outcome? <p>Still moving cautiously into friendship. He is respecting my "rules" (boundaries) of NC with OW, honesty, IC for himself, remorse, learning.... He agrees that future remarriage is a possibility, but he needs time to work on himself, just as I have had a year to do this. I don't want to re-marry him right now. Sort of like your quote I pasted at the top of this post. But I still believe my ongoing story is proof of the MB concepts. Plan B, and *I think* the necessary step of divorce to push them together ultimately caused the A to crash and burn. *I believe* my PLan A efforts is what is bringing him back to be a friend, and *possible* remarriage prospect. We will have to see what plays out. He may even end up being someone I don't want as a friend.<p>Hang in there JR! You are doing great! You are going to come out of this a true winner, no matter what your W chooses!

I'm going to answer these questions as they applied in our situation since they might help to show WHY Plan A and Plan B are more effective than what we did.<p>
1. How long did your Plan B last?<p>My H never did a Plan A or a Plan B. I had free access in and out of his life as I pleased. When I had a need for family time I would hang around the house, cook and clean, watch movies...and then go home. When I wanted time alone I would drop son off and do as I wanted. He came closest to Plan B in the last 3 months of our seperation. He had his own life and pretty much only spoke to me about our son or to make plans for our son.<p>2. Did your WS "get it" - about why you needed NC? Did they respect it?<p>I would NOT have "gotten" it...no...and I would NOT have respected it. Every time OM and I would go in to NC, I was the one who would break it...and I would have done the same with H. I would ALWAYS have had an excuse. I wanted complete control and freedom of choices. Any break in that would have sent me in to a panic.<p>3. Were there any signs you could see that they were "cracking" over time, leading up to the eventual desire to "come home"?<p>Had my husband CARED any more he would have noticed certain things. I began being nice to him again...not just civil, but NICE. I made subtle comments and offers to make meals and such. It was when he quit happily accepting that I really felt "B'd".<p>4. What was the outcome?<p>Well, we did everything wrong and still managed to pull it together. Throughout the WHOLE ordeal, even when I was a COMPLETE A*Hole to him (and the occasional viceversa) we swore we would keep it from getting ugly and remain friendly...for our sons sake and ours as well. I think that's VERY much what kept us from a bitter end. Although I was like every other WS...heavily fogged...I still had moments of clarity that I just wasn't able to reason away with more fog. Fully motivated by impending divorce and H's new GF...the fog lifted completely.<p>H and I are doing WELL! The honeymoon is over (though I'm sure it wouldn't be if we had more time for each other), but we still love each other and know that by working together we can keep things going!

Bumping for any other Plan B'ers....

Ok JR, <p>Here's my plan B story. <p>Went to plan B March 2001. Sent the WS and OW into a panic. LB between them commenced. OW was convinced (paranoid OW) that I was up to something and demanded the WS go find out. Let's see she is approx 6 inches taller than me but she 'pretended' she was scared to death of me. BOO! LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>H was asking to come home within 2 weeks. Kept him out for another 2 weeks, then OW told me to take him back. <p>Dumb me.....false recovery. I felt soooo used. Got prego and then lost the baby at 10 weeks. In the interim, PBR claimed prego 2 with no proof. WS went to the poke for a couple of days (public service anger management classes), then went to live with the OW for approx 10 days. WS called crying to come home 'again' and OW again telling me to take him back. Arrrgh.....more false recovery junk. <p>In August 2001, OW claimed prego 3 again no proof. At this point, she won the title Rabbit therefore her initials PBR. PBR was angry that I messed up her wedding. Hm..... WS was now back home and still married to me. WOW! Arrgh...... more false recovery junk. <p>I finally got tired of it and said that the OW must be out of my life. Even if that meant losing the WS to the OW. I no longer cared. Plan B seemed like nirvana.....relief from the OW/A stress was beginning to show signs. I had 2 boughts of suicidal depression at this time. Huge wake up call. <p>Yet the contact continued. But it was growing less and less. Ws still had anger issues. I was getting very tired and still chalked up false recovery. I kicked the WS out of the house again. He was on the streets for a few days at a time and worked pratically around the clock between 3 parttime jobs. I really did not care. I needed the OW out of my life. <p>At that point, the WS found a counselor and started seeing her. Progress was minimal but the WS no longer could find reason to be angry with me. Believe me he tried. I tried hard not to deal with the WS. <p>OW did not like the fact that she no longer could pull my buttons and set me off. Not that she did that much but even she could see that I was not caring about her much. Dumb bunny did not like that. She wanted to be the center of attention. <p>PBR accused me of many things, including having an affair with my FIL and other men. Then she accused the WS of committing 'emotional adultery' against the OW when he came home. (this was back in Feb and May 2001). <p>Same stuff happened in Sept 01 - March 2002. Eventually the WS got tired of it and the pesty OW finally stopped calling. From what I can see, the contact between them ended in April 2002. 1 year after H's 1st return home. <p>Not sure what category I fall into but I know that for me the final settling point was that the OW HAD TO BE OUT OF MY LIFE! After a slight setback, I was able to keep that as my goal. <p>L.