As the anniversary of the date my life was stolen from me (formerly known as wedding anniversary) approaches, the dread of it is making me physically ill. I'm getting yanked back to the can't eat-can't sleep-stomach tied up like a pretzel-elephant sitting on my chest stage again.<p>I'm remembering all these things from throughout the R, before and after M--referred to some specifics in a post on my other thread about "Uninsightful WS"--and just feeling lost and sometimes angry. I feel like everything's going to come to a head because of the approaching anniversary. I fear that he is going to want to celebrate what to me is a day of deep mourning. I'm kind of the opposite of Lady Clueless as I live in fear that my H WILL ask me to marry him again!<p>I fear what my reactions will be when his relatives, whom he has kept in the dark, say "Happy Anniversary" or ask me what we're going to "do on your special day" or give me a card or any of that. I am dreading all of it like crazy. I feel like I should tell him that I don't want anything to do with that date ever again. I told him that around D-day time, but he may think everything's back to normal now or may have even forgotten I said that. Either way, whether I tell him ahead of time or I try to ignore it, it is bound to be unpleasant.<p>I'm having a harder and harder time living his lie for him around his family. I'm afraid one of these days I'm going to explode or at least have to leave abruptly during a family gathering. A couple of times he has done his old pattern of making snide remarks to me at the table in front of everyone. I have no tolerance for this anymore. Being in an unsafe R is bad enough; I can't and won't take unpleasant on top of that. I just feel like the next time he does it I'm going to have to get up and go, and it will make me look like an idiot to everyone who has no idea what's really going on.<p>Every week something happens at these family gatherings to trigger me because they all unknowingly hurt me with things they say or wear items with the OW's workplace logo on them that H gave them during the A, and just overall, the whole thing is so uncomfortable because of the deception. It's so unfair for him to keep us all in this position--forcing them to hurt me without knowing they're doing it and forcing me to be hurt by them by not "allowing" me to say ouch or reveal my pain to them.<p>I know I should have confronted him about this a long time ago and not been a party to his deception, but now I feel kind of trapped in it and that it's going to take a big explosion of some kind to get it dealt with. I guess I'm going to have to tell him some things he doesn't want to hear rather than risk a scene in front of everyone. He'd probably prefer that, but I think I'd prefer the safety of confrontation in front of everyone--weird, huh? Have circumstances force a resolution or something like that. Plus, I know he wouldn't be as mean and hateful in front of his family as he is in private.<p>Why is it that we seem to have to fight our biggest battles in our weakest state? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I feel like if I was in better emotional and physical shape instead of in this fight-or-flight survival mode, I'd be able to address this stuff in some kind of constructive way, but right now I'm feeling so cornered and threatened I can't seem to come up with a plan I feel strong enough to carry out.

Conqueror -- Where is your main story/thread? I am in a similiar situation with the deception with the family and it makes me very uncomfortable. ALso, my father-in-law is a complete narcissists and verbally abuses my mother-in-law in front of everyone. It is excrutiating to witness and I feel like I should say something, but to what end? The children both fear and worship the ground the FIL walks on (which I just cannot understand). My WH is not a narcissist (but I sure thought so for a while before I did further research into this personality disorder).<p>I don't know you and haven't been able to follow all of your threads, but I have to ask why, if you really believe your WH to be an abusive narcissist, are your still trying? I believe that all marriages deserve a second chance and that the MB principles are worth fighting for -- however, from what I know of true narcissistic personalities, they don't change because they just don't/won't/can't ever get it. If this is the case, my sympathies are with you. I have been the daughter in law to a situation for the last fourteen years that is so difficult to watch between my FIL and MIL. She has been bullied into believing she is a lesser person and it breaks my heart. <p>Are you in any kind of counseling? I'm not wise enough to really give too much advice here, but I wanted you to know that your posts really struck a chord with me and I'm praying for you.

I read your thread and I don't know how you have done it. My WH wanted to keep everyone in the dark. It worked for 3 entire days. I couldn't stand the lies so that is when I had a complete meltdown and called my MIL. I told her everything and I told everyone else. I also explained tnat he was in a bad place and needed support as much as I did. I did this while he was at work and called him to forewarn him just so he wouldn't feel like he was walking into the lion's den. I was not able to start plan a'ing until it was out in the open. Plus I read on here that most affairs have a short shelf life once they are out in the open. I hope it helps.
You are in my prayers!
Layli

I would be tempted to say," If you make remarks in front of others, I will go public with this. If you will keep it private, and keep your mouth shut, I will keep it private." <p>But I wouldn't say it in anger or when talking about something else in a robust discussion. <p>You have concerns today but sound like you are better able to cope. ( more in charge of things.)
If I was a betting man, I would bet you will come out of this in pretty good shape.( but it's hard, isn't it.) <p>SS

dear conquerer-i realized today that if my husband, right now asked me to re-marry him---i would have to say no. im in a slight depression myself. not too bad, though.<p>if he was to never change, would you allow him to abuse you forever?<p>what is your long term plan? im curious cause im starting to think im gonna be honest and tell my husband im not sure i can do this.

I really appreciate everyone's input. I seem to be struggling quite a bit lately.<p>Unsureheart,<p>My story is in bits and pieces all over these boards, so I wouldn't even know where to start except for a member number search on all the infidelity boards except Pregnancy.<p>I don't know what to believe about the alleged narcissism, but I'm going to follow the links that were given to me on the other thread and spend some time researching it and try to keep my eyes open and stay out of denial while I do it. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The bottomline reason I'm still here is that I've been through D before, and so far, as bad as my M is, it is not worse than that. If I did not have children with the man, I would have been long gone, but one thing I learned from my previous D is that a difficult H becomes my worst nightmare when I make him an ex-H, and since there are children involved I have no way to escape it. I'm tied to him forever whether I'm married to him or not.<p>I can really appreciate the picture you drew of your in-laws. There are similarities to my in-laws, though mine are less extreme than yours sound, but his father's attitude can be seen in the way my H has related to the women in his life. He idolizes his mother and gets offended on her behalf when his father mistreats her. He did admit during our Retrouvaille weekend that he recognizes that he does the same things to me and that he does it specifically to punish me, so maybe that was a glimmer of insight. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I went through major counseling during my divorce, before this M, and I think three different therapists during this M, but I haven't pursued it since D-day because with all the therapy I've had through the years, it doesn't seem to have done any good, and short of the Harleys, I figure anyone I went to would probably assess the situation as hopeless. I think that would just add to my stress level.<p>Layli,<p>I so wish I had done what you did! We were actually separated for 6 days back in September, so that would have been the perfect time, and if my in-laws hadn't been out of town, it probably would have happened exactly the way it did for you. I still think a lot of why he asked to come home was to try to get it resolved before they came home so he wouldn't have to face them with what he had done.<p>I feel like letting the situation go on as long as I have has resulted in painting myself into a corner. He's still furious that I even told MY family--said I just did that so I could be a victim. I pointed out that I AM his victim, whether he wants to recognize that fact or not. This conversation took place during the last critical mass explosion back in January when I tried to get him to move out so I could go to Plan B.<p>And I think you are so right about the A needing to come to the light of day. I believe there has been no contact with the OW for months, so I don't think it needs to be revealed to bring an end to the A, but I do think revealing it in such a close family situation is the healthy thing to do. I think a lot of why he isn't dealing with it is because he doesn't have to. He can pretend it never happened when he's around his family and feel good about himself and not face the parts of himself he doesn't want to face. He is with them every single day. He spends more time with them than with me (another bone of contention BTW).<p>I think I'm just going to have to tell him how it is before the anniversary gets here. If he blows, he blows. I just can't see myself being able to keep living this lie in front of his family. I know how hurt they would be if we ended up divorcing and THEN they found out this had all started a long time ago and that they were purposely kept in the dark with no chance to try to help.<p>And the pain to me, for instance, of his mother trying to talk me into forgiving him and taking him back because it would all be new to her since she wouldn't really be able to grasp that I'd already done that over and over and over, and I would be all used up by the time she found out about it if it only came out when there was no turning back for me. What a mess all this stuff is!<p>SS,<p>It is definitely hard. I think I'm beyond the point where I can keep an agreement like the one you suggest. Even when he's decent to me when we're over there, my skin just crawls because of the deception and having to keep up this front that I don't believe in. Know what I mean? Some of it is projection because I believe if the situation were reversed, I would handle it differently. I don't hide things from my family. I NEED my family, so when I am in distress, I reach out to them.<p>Also, if I were the WS, the last thing I'd want is to remind my BS of what I did, and I'd want my family to be in a position to avoid that as well.<p>To top it all off, my family is currently visiting and will be spending time with us with his family, so they feel all awkward and strange, too, having this knowledge about my H that his own family doesn't have and having to interact with them. It creates feelings of guilt, like so many times when I look at his mother interacting with him, I see me back before I knew about the A, and it pains me, both for her and for me. I just don't see how this situation can continue as it has for much longer.<p>Once again, thank you all for helping me get through this. It really helps to be heard and understood when you're struggling through this muck and mire.

Nikko,<p>I've already made up my mind about the verbal abuse and disrespect, and I told him that I would no longer tolerate it back in January when I tried to separate and Plan B. Since then, he has significantly cleaned up his act regarding obvious LBs like that, but a couple times during family dinners he has made borderline comments that only *I* would know arise out of hostility and nastiness. Hard to explain, but when he does it, I know that he's sending me a message and I know what kind it is, and he knows I know. Basically trying to put me in my place or put me down in a subtle way.<p>These are the stealth attacks that they can deny ever happened and say that you just took it wrong or somehow make you look like a fool if you react to it. He is a master at that kind of thing. It's getting to the point where I think I'm just going to call him on it the next time it happens no matter who is around or how he tries manipulate it or twist it. He knows what he's doing, and I know what he's doing.<p>I tried to tell him that the deal now is not so much what he does or thinks he is doing or anything like that--it is how I FEEL when I am with him. THAT is how I assess the R now. THAT is my reality, and that is how I can know when I am safe or unsafe because any information I get from him is unreliable. But my feelings when he was in A mode were right on target and flawlessly correct. They are trustworthy; he is not.<p>I have no long-term plan. I don't seem to be able to see past another year of this. I figure if I stand my ground on the make-it-or-break-it issues, there will be resolution one way or the other at some point. My latest thought process has four basic components:<p>The past: I am increasingly believing that this A is just the tip of the iceberg, and without full disclosure of the whole TRUE story of our M, I don't think it can survive. If I had to risk everything I had on one or the other, I would go with this A as not being his first during this M. I don't see how there can be any intimacy as long as I feel that way.<p>The present: I have two bottom lines--I will not tolerate the disrespect and abuse I tolerated in the past. I am still trying to strategize appropriate responses. I definitely need to establish new patterns. I don't think I need to end the M at the first little nasty remark, but I need to establish a reliable pattern of response that he can count on that takes the attraction out of that behavior choice and hopefully makes seeking alternative ways of relating to me look like the better option.<p>Secondly, what I said before about my feelings being the indicator of when I am in danger from infidelity and responding swiftly and confidently when the bells start going off, once again hopefully making practicing the extraordinary precautions look like a more attractive option than risking separation/divorce by expecting me to trust him, which absolutely will never happen.<p>The future: I am going to start saving for a lie detector test to try to pin down the reality of my life with him. As soon as we get into another dialogue about the R, I will let him know my suspicions, why I have them, why they are not going to go away, and that I am saving for a lie detector test (anybody know what these run?), and that he will have the intervening time to disclose anything that has been not disclosed. If anything new is disclosed voluntarily during the pre-test time, it is more likely that the M will survive and the sooner, the better, and conversely, if something new is revealed from the test or if he refuses to take the test, then it is unlikely the M will survive.<p>(I should have insisted on a lie detector test when the FIRST STD showed up back in 1993! I feel like such an idiot, but I think I was too terrified to find out the truth because I was pregnant at the time, but if I had it to do over again, I should have faced all this back then for sure. I hope it's better late than never, though.)<p>So, that's the closest thing to a plan I have so far. What do you think?<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Oh, I SO know where you are!<p>At first I was silent because at Dday he said if I told anyone he would leave. Then I was silent because I was just so confused and I knew that you can't take back what you say - you know, I didn't know what to do so it was safer not to do anything. Now I am silent because my dad left my mom for an OW and relatives later gave me more information than I could handle, and I don't want that to happen to my kids -- Anyone I could tell might tell my kids and at this point they don't need to know. And because it would be SO much healthier for him to do his own telling, at least to his own family. And in the restore your marriage stuff it says that the wife should not be the one to hurt the H reputation. And, the silence protects me, too, from unhelpful suggestions of what to do (like Terrified got from friends and mom.)<p>So basically, I live in hope that the OW will tell someone and that will be the end of her!!!!<p>Actually, I don't think I can do another family thing with his family - we did do Christmas and it killed me. They all live far away so we don't see them often. But the next time, we will go restored, or he can go by himself.

Conqueror~
My heart goes out to you during this awful time of 'anniversaries' so to speak. I know the horrible unsettling feelings you mention all too well.....<p>Everytime my WH ends contact with OW, we have this HUGE talk about everything, I spill my guts about how I feel, he says he's going to change EVERYTHING, etc., etc. THEN immediately he doesn't understand why I don't put everything away and be fine with him. He thinks he's fixed the problem and I'm trying to 'punish' him by still being wounded/suspicious. Never mind the fact that I know without a doubt that contact WILL RESUME in a matter of days........<p>Conqueror, you've helped me SO MUCH in replying to my posts in months past since I've joined the boards. I've been absent for a while because I found myself needing to get away from totally focusing on A. I was making myself completely crazy and being unable to function almost on any other level. The breather has been good for me. It has helped me tremendously to have set August as the date of review for M and Plan B. I can do this till August. Not sure what will happen come August, but trying not to worry about it. Maybe you should set a time frame for yourself. You don't have to decide to do anything major; maybe just decide to re-evaluate the situation and see if there's been ANY improvement......<p>I also know what you mean about trying to enter Plan B. I've tried at least 3 times in the past couple of months, but he WILL NOT LEAVE. He has told me he knows life with OW would not work, but he still wants to eat cake......Not sure how to deal with this if in August I feel I need to implement Plan B!<p>I also second the opinion that his family MUST be brought into the loop--and this will be a MAJOR problem for your H, but also will bring MAJOR changes into M. Ugly things can hide in the dark. Bringing things to LIGHT makes change possible. There is no reason to change that which is not brought to light......What's the point if it can stay hidden? His family needs to know! Any major turn-around is usually very painful at first.....<p>Good luck and remember all the good changes that have come about in YOU since D-day. You're a super great woman. I admire you very much.<p>(Read my updated profile if you wonder what's been going on with me since my last post.)<p>~amazingrace

Well, I guess the profile has limits! LOL<p>Anyway, he said some really horrible things and broke some stuff he was so mad about the note! But now he's replaced/fixed things and said on the phone yesterday he knows he still has stuff that still needs to be 'fixed' (talking about us) but he doesn't know what to do or how to do it.
He was drunk that night and says he doesn't remember what he said, but he remembers other things about the night so I'm not buying the 'amnesia' crap!<p>He says OW is mad and won't speak to him cause he won't make me leave her alone! Well, she should leave my H alone and we'll all be just fine. Not really, there's lots of things here to work on, but you know what I mean. (And she should be happy that I didn't kick in her car door, cause the thought was sooooo appealing! LOL I thought leaving a note on her car was showing SUCH self control! hahahaha)<p>~amazingrace
I've set August as my time frame for Plan B or something.....