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Joined: Apr 2002
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Thanks to all who have given their 2 cents on other posts I have written and for following my continuing story on Plan A/B at:<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=001238&p=4<p>I would appreciate any comments on the following:<p>My WW is currently living at her parents and will be getting her own apartment in July or August. <p>She rarely wants to talk to me unless it is about our bank account or her wanting her money ASAP since we are getting a divorce.<p>She said I will be hearing from a "mediator" next week and as of July she will no longer have her checks deposited into our joint account to pay the mortgage, loans, bills etc.<p>(Lately our checking account has been in the negative. She and I know it is not because of me. I only pay the bills and haven't been spending on anything else besides some groceries. She claims she wants the money in her own account so she can see where it is going. She admitted that she has spent "a little" more than usual but that OM buys everything for her in her new relationship.)<p>She is adamantly determined to get her "thousands" out of our home's equity, and have me pay her for our furniture that she doesn't want, etc. She "apologized" for "screwing me over" in our marriage and that she now has to "screw me over" financially. <p>She was extremely angry the whole conversation because supposedly I am "controlling" her and keeping these (financial) "ties" to her by continuing to put things off. She has repeatedly stated that her goal is to cut all ties with me ASAP. <p>I have asked her for more time to figure out things etc. She just gets angry and told me there is no more time and she is not contributing her money to pay for the mortgage, bills or starting next month. And soon after, she said I will need to sell the house or refinance to give her "her share" of the equity asap.<p>She intends to come over next week and go over the numbers etc, and talk about which part of each credit card's debt belongs to who, etc. <p>I hope to talk to Steve again for some advice on how to handle this "money" situation. I'm thinking that my Plan A is coming to an end soon and will probably go to Plan B when she moves into her apartment. I want to show her that I am giving her "her space" and am not trying to keep any money or anything that is not mine. I just want to do the right thing. <p>I will go to Plan B to save the remaining love I have for her but believe that she will see it as me being more controlling because then "the lawyers" will have to do the communication regarding all the money. <p>1. How should I handle future conversations with her about "her money", figuring out who owns/owe what, etc? <p>2. And if/when I go to Plan B, how do I not have any contact with her if I'm in the house and she comes over to get things or to talk (financial papers, furniture etc)?<p>
Thanks for listening,
-Heartbroken and hoping<p>-------------------------------------------------
2/22/02 WW out w/OM discussing marital problems
until 3AM
3/02 WW wants separation, admits "feelings"
for OM. Loves me but not "in love" with me.
3/02-4/02 WW moves to parents but visits me.
4/02-5/02 Plan A started. WW moves back in, but
rarely is home. Reveals feelings to OM. PA
starts.
5/9/02 Discover WW & OM together at beach.
5/12/02 - 6/02 WW moves back into parents. Some
visits and angry calls for her stuff and "her
money." She calls me, I don't call her.
6/13/02 WW visits, cries, kisses me, misses me,
says she loves me. Feels guilty for cheating
on OM with me. (?)
6/14/02 - today
Angry phone calls continue with intensity
about money, divorce, getting equity from
home, not paying bills, etc. Plans for her
own apartment and a mediator to talk to me
are solidifing.

Joined: Apr 2002
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also,<p>Met in 4th grade. Friends with her and her family ever since (18 years plus).<p>Married 4 years this August/togeter 7+<p>W-27 years old
Me - 26 will be 27 in July
No children.

Joined: May 2002
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aanast2,<p>Ouch. I am so sorry to hear this. I think weekends are pretty slow around here, but hopefully some of the more experienced folks with respond to you soon.<p>Um... I don't really have answers for you, just one comment - DON'T LET HER SCREW YOU FINANCIALLY. She's the one that left, why should you have to pay for it? Have you contacted a lawyer for advice yet? I'm not saying you should file, just saying you should protect yourself. She sounds like she is deep in the fog. The mediator might be a good thing... <p>My H said last week that he was done, and when we started talking about the practical details, I had to put the brakes on - it was too much too soon. So he agreed to a 2 week "cooling off period" of sorts where we're not seeing or speaking to each other, and one month hiatus from making any decisions. But at least he's not trying to screw me financially... if anything, it sounds like he's going to screw himself. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Good luck!

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Okay, if no divorce or legal separation has been filed, then all this talk about selling the house, splitting debts, and splitting assets is premature. Don't sit down and go over numbers with her, don't even discuss it. As you know, these conversations are very distressing and don't do you any good. Tney don't help you continue in plan A. You are not supposed to be a doormat in plan A, and that's what she wants you to be. Just tell her that you think these discussions are premature, until a divorce has been filed.<p>If she has moved out, then you do need separate bank accounts. Open your own, with just your name on it. You might want to close all credit card accounts that have both names on them, and open your own. Whether you do that or not, you don't have to sell the house or refinance the mortgage, assuming both your names are on it.<p>Whenever it does come time to discuss this stuff with her, do it through a lawyer. Your wife would prefer to just "work things out" because she thinks she can get a better and quicker deal. Your hiring a laywer is not for controlling her, it's for protecting yourself. You can bet her moves and proposals are well-planned. You can't just sit there without sound legal advice. Even if you agree to use a mediator, you should still get your own advice and review from your own attorney.<p>Looking at your profile - is she saying the PA did not start until you were separated? That seems highly unlikely. Maybe she wants to complete the property division before you find out more of the truth.<p>If you are already counseling with Steve Harley, this is a great time to schedule another session. It sounds like maybe plan B is coming soon. But for now, and especially if you consider yourself to be in plan A, put off these money discussions.

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aanast~~<p>I once heard this story about two people fighting over a house full of "stuff".... and they could not agree on how to divide all their "stuff" without one or the other feeling they were being cheated.<p>Here is the solution that solved their dilemma:<p>Person #1 divides of all the items in question into two lists. List A and list B are equally desirable in the eyes of person #1.<p>Person #2 gets to choose between list A or list B.<p>Neither can complain they were cheated ... no matter who gets to be person #1 or person #2.<p>Quite an elegant solution, don't you think?<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>PS ---> get a lawyer to talk to your WW. She does not want to deal squarely with you.

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Thanks JellyGirl, tmmx, and pepperband,<p>It seems like all of you recommend that I at least talk with a lawyer to get information (not file or anything.) This makes sense to me.<p>I definately intend to also talk to Steve Harley for how to talk to my wife about all this financial stuff that she is obsessing over.<p>tmmx wrote:
>Okay, if no divorce or legal separation has been >filed, then all this talk about selling the >house, splitting debts, and splitting assets is >premature. Don't sit down and go over numbers >with her, don't even discuss it. <p>I agree with you. I've been putting it off and avoiding it, but how do I continue to do that? What do I do/say to her without pissing her off and "forcing" her to file for divorce. <p>Also, my wife says that if I continue to not talk with her and help her with splitting up the assets/debts, she will just come over to the house and take all our financial documents. What do you recommend I do then?<p>tmmx said:
>Just tell her that you think these discussions >are premature, until a divorce has been filed.<p>I can tell her I don't want to talk to her about splitting stuff because a separation or divorce hasn't been filed (it's premature etc), but I think that will be a lovebuster to her and she will then file. It seems like she is looking for a reason to file perhaps (or maybe the money to file, and put a down payment on an apartment.)<p>tmmx said:
>Whenever it does come time to discuss this stuff >with her, do it through a lawyer. Your wife >would prefer to just "work things out" because >she thinks she can get a better and quicker >deal. <p>This makes a lot of sense. She say something once to the effect of not liking the idea of me delaying things or disputing/fighting the divorce and having to wait 2 years for her money.<p>tmmx said:
>Your hiring a laywer is not for controlling her, >it's for protecting yourself. You can bet her >moves and proposals are well-planned. You can't >just sit there without sound legal advice. Even >if you agree to use a mediator, you should still >get your own advice and review from your own >attorney.<p>This makes sense for me as a individual. If (when?) we get divorced, I don't want to be screwed over financially. However, I'm not sure how I can make these actions of defending myself (which will offend her) jive with Plan A. Hopefully, that is where you guys and Steve can help. If I'm going to Plan B, I don't want the last thing she remembers about me is fighting over money.<p>
Any suggestions?<p>
-------------------------------------------------
2/22/02 WW out w/OM discussing marital problems until 3AM
3/02 WW wants separation, admits "feelings" for OM. Loves me but not "in love" with me.
3/02-4/02 WW moves to parents but visits me.
4/02-5/02 Plan A starts. WW moves back, rarely is home. Reveals feelings to OM, PA starts (?)
5/9/02 Discover WW & OM together at beach.
5/12/02 - 6/02 WW moves back into parents. Some visits and angry calls for her stuff and "her money." She calls me, I don't call her.
6/13/02 WW visits, cries, kisses me, misses me, says she loves me. Feels guilty for cheating on OM with me.(?)
6/14/02 - today
WW Says 6/13 was a mistake & she is in a committed relationship now. Angry phone calls continue with intensity about money, divorce, splitting assets/debts. Plans for her own apartment and a mediator to talk to me are solidifying.

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Hi, aanast.<p>Something that you must remember is that she made the choice to move out. Don't let her come into your house just whenever she wants to. You need to get your key from her. If she won't give it to you, then you need to change the locks. I'm not kidding about this. My WW left me for OM, and took 2 of my 3 boys with her (the oldest refuses to talk to her). A few weeks later, she came over when I was gone and took some things that didn't belong to her, namely my son's drums. She sold them because she was broke and wanted to buy some Christmas gifts. I'm not saying she meant to be a thief. I just think she was/is so messed up in her thinking that she didn't see the wrong. I was so mad at her. <p>One evening that I was gone, I made the mistake of leaving my garage unlocked. WW took my riding mower and grill and took it over to OM's house 60 miles away. I still have my push mower, but the problem is our S mows lawns to make money this summer, and some of them are large lots that he can't mow w/ the push mower. He's been trying to get her to bring it back so he can mow, but she refuses. I think she's afraid to upset OM.<p>Anyway, when we were trying to split things up evenly and fairly, I had her make a list what things she really wanted, namely things that she bought or was given to her by her parents. My attorney told me that everything that we acquired during our marriage, either purchased or given to us, is mutual property. That goes for the bills, as well. I put everything on a spreadsheet with an estimated and fair value of each item. When she gave me her list, I agreed to most of it, but a few things we had to haggle over. We ended up with a mutual list that was equal in value. I didn&#8217;t have to deal w/ the house because it&#8217;s in foreclosure now. The bills were also split 50/50, including my student loans. I know she won&#8217;t pay for any of the bills and I&#8217;ll be stuck with them, but at least they are split on paper.<p>It&#8217;s always best if you can agree on things instead of making the court decide for you. It takes a lot of patience, and a cool head. But I also agree that if you are headed for a divorce, you need to contact an attorney instead of a mediator. Just remember that your W isn&#8217;t thinking about you right now&#8230; only herself. Probably just about everything you do to protect yourself will offend her, but you need to protect yourself as best that you can, or you&#8217;ll end up getting walked all over. If she files for D, your attorney can stall for more time if you ask him to. My wife filed last Oct and we still haven&#8217;t gone to the D hearing. It bought me a lot of time while she&#8217;s still in her fog. There&#8217;s always a chance, right? And fighting over money doesn&#8217;t have to be the last thing she has to remember. That&#8217;s something you&#8217;ll need to work into your Plan A.<p>So, there's my opinion on the matter. It was tough, but we were able to work it out. Good luck.

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You should give her copies of statements and documents so that she has an accurate snapshot of your financial status. <p>Maybe you need to split the current balance in your joint checking account, but after that, think about moving joint account balances to ones in your name. This does not mean "drain the accounts" for your own benefit, but park them in a safe place. You should be able to account for all this at a final settlement, and she'll have copies of what the balances were. She seems to be threatening to drain the joint accounts herself, and what I'm suggesting is that you create an impasse. You need to protect your joint assets for the final settlement.<p>I hope you are depositing your paychecks and paying current bills out of your own checking account.<p>Changing the locks should also be considered, but she does have the right to enter the house if it's in both your names. It's just a bad idea for her to do it, and her lawyer would probably advise against it. So don't rely on the locks. If you are mainly concerned about small items and documents, move those to a safe deposit box in a bank, or keep them off site. You can make a photographic inventory and keep that off site, in case she takes something big, that can be accounted for in the final settlement.<p>Now as far as it being a LB if you keep putting off her disucssion, that depends on how you say it. She may get upset, but you have to remain calm and stick to your basic story line. You do not have to be a doormat in plan A.<p>She may file for divorce, but it sounds like she wants you to do it. You can't stop her from filing, so don't let that dictate your actions. If you're not ready to file, then by all means wait for your own time. Let her file, if that's what she wants.<p>She said something about waiting for 2 years - are you in Pennsylvania? There is a 2-year waiting period for a no-fault divorce here, if one party is not willing. But one can still file for a divorce on the classical fault grounds, with no fixed waiting period.<p>It seems like you are being pushed into plan B by your spouse's actions, which is not what you want. I don't have any experience with plan A while living apart. Hopefully Steve can help you with suggestions, and you should really talk to him soon. You can still plan A while living apart, but it's harder. Good luck.

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Hi there,<p>though post! especially the bit about:<p><strong>She "apologized" for "screwing me over" in our marriage and that she now has to "screw me over" financially.
</strong><p>is not comprehensible, is it?<p>OK - here's my suggestions:<p>1. look at the bright side: you're still young, no kids - so the situation is easier than for many others right from the outset<p>2. you sound deeply hurt - probably rightly so. I suggest you move to plan B immediately, ie stopping all contact with her whatsoever, in order not to even more kill the feelings you still might have for yer.<p>3. then - MAYBE - over time, she might have different thoughts.<p>4. if not - move on.<p>
Regards,
Nick123


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