A good conversation with WW last night, somewhat unexpected, but not suprising given my recent pulling back from WW. In the last week, I have become very distant, very unavailable for WW and also giving the assuming acceptance our situation as permanent and am moving on. I also think that WW suspects that I may be starting to go out with other women, which I have done nothing to deny, whenever WW has asked me what I am doing, I just tell her my private life is none of her business, just like she insists that her private life to be none of my business.

I had the kids last night and when I brought them home, BF and her H were there hanging out with WW. WW asked me to come talk to them, but I told her I had to finish with homework and get the kids to bed. Besides, I don't think I can really be around BF knowing she had an A and wont tell her H about it, even though he probably already knows. They left before I was done and WW asked if I would stay and talk for a bit. I hesitated, telling her I had things to do, but she almost pleaded with me to stay and talk, so I did.

Not a bad conversation all in all. The first thing WW told me was that BF and her H are really working things out and seem to be closer than they have been in a long time (hmmm). WW then asked me again why I wont consider moving back in. I repeated that as long as she was in contact with OM and not committed to our M, it serves no purpose and would only hurt the kids more if I moved out again. She then started to come up with ideas of where I could stay for cheap after my lease expired and even offered to leave the house on the days/weekends that I have the kids. Each one had some good points, but I told her I have become very comfortable with my current lifestyle and don't want to go through another upheaval again.

WW told me that she rarely talks to OM anymore and that she can feel them drifting apart. I told her that her inability to break it off completely really hurts me and makes me feel like our M isn't worth much to her. She acknowledged this and said that right now, she doesn't feel strong enough to break it off and that nothing physical is going on, that they only talk as friends. Still not what I want to hear, but I guess it is something. WW also told me she can sense my pulling away from her and can see my anger. I told her it wasn't anger, but frustration with the way things are going and fear of a future without her. She insists their being friends is completely innocent and I repeated that there is no respectable expert around in the field of marriage counseling who would condone a friendship between the 2 infidels, I even gave her some names (Harley, Davis, Dobson) hoping it would spur some interest in her and maybe she'll get some books from them.

I finally asked her what it is she wants from me right now, what can I do to help us start moving closer together again. Right now, WW wants me to hold off on filing for a D, give her some time and space, and to keep my apparent anger in check and limit talking about the A for now while she tries and works through this. Being the analytical person I have become, here is how I see her requests to be:

- divorce- WW is looking for a little stability right now, especially since the A didn't work out like planned and now she is facing a very uncertain future. I know the financial matters are beating us both down. I have no intention of filing for D right now, so this really isn't a problem.

- time and space- hard as it is to do, I guess I have to give her this. I think she is being honest with me about the amount of contact, although the recent letter I saw doesn't seem to be just a 'friendship' thing. Since my ultimate goal is the restoration of the M, and since it seems that the A is winding down, I'll have to at least give this a try. I have been giving advice to let the A dies is own natural death and to take things slow (even though us BS's don't want to), so guess its time I take my own advice to heart.

- keeping my feelings in check- yes, I know I have shown my frustration on several occasions recently and WW is picking up on that. Guess I'll have to do a better job of being pleasant when I am around her, give her reason to want to be with me.

From here, not sure where to go, but it is encouraging. I'm still going to keep my distance and let WW do all the work to initiate anything between us, hard as that is going to be. I know there is going to be a lot of ups and downs for both of us, like the last few weeks have shown, but as long as WW keeps making these little steps forward, it gives me some hope. Slowly and cautiously plodding along, future seems to be getting a little brighter

LHS;
It does sound like positive forward movement, celebrate it, use it to gain strength and resolve, and hang on. It may be that the A IS coming to and end, maybe she senses it, and is trying to lay the goundwork for reconciliation.

Sounds positive to me.

LHS:

Sounds positive to me, too. I don't think I'd worry TOO much about expressing your frustrations. It does seem like you're being nice to her as well, and you certainly have a right to stick by your boundaries. I'd keep up the good work.

LHS,

I agree with the others, sounds like progress. I suggest that you remain pleasent around her no matter the circumstance. You have layed a piece of groundwork I believe can work. Now you need to continue that course. Meaning; you have attempted to show her that you are comfortable with your new life and the way things are now. I think you should keep up that front. But, always be respectful of her, and her feelings.

In my eyes nothing I did mattered or made a difference to my WS. Not until I actually got to the point of not caring. Then and only then(it seemed to me anyway)did she respond. We still have many problems, but we are recovering. For the most part things have been and are great.

Still, it took my actually no longer caring for us to start moving forward. And you know what? It didn't take long for me to care again. I love my wife very much.

jd

LHS,

You said one thing that I think I will disagree with. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- keeping my feelings in check- yes, I know I have shown my frustration on several occasions recently and WW is picking up on that. Guess I'll have to do a better job of being pleasant when I am around her, give her reason to want to be with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LHS, you need to be honest with her. You ARE frustrated and she needs to know it. The only issue is how you show it. Herein lies the art of Plan A and no LB's. What you are seeing is that finally she is looking at you and trying to read the signs after a long period of not caring one bit about how you feel. It probably bothers her that she is close to losing you and she is closer than either of you think in my opinion.

So to lie to her and put on a happy face is doing both of you a disservice. You can be pleasant, and you can avoid LB's, but let her see what you feel. If you don't there will be this huge blindside coming when you file for D, and you will my friend if things don't start to change. You cannot financially afford not to if I recall the agreement you signed for separation.

So don't hide things from her, but also do your best to keep things on an even keel. That would be my advice.

Hang in there things are changing and that could be very good.

God Bless,

JL

LHS,

I bumped a thread by Carolkh that you might find interesting. I will add a link here as well;

Carolkh's thread

This just to give you a little perspective on something I believe you have already begun.

JL, is correct in that you should not hide your thoughts from WS. But you can talk about things without going balistic and losing control.

Hope the thread helps.

jd

go back & reread what JL wrote, as always he has words of wisdom.

loverherstill,

Great job!! Very smart comunication. Impressive!! Way to stick to your boundaries about moving back in and about keeping OM as just a friend. I bet that was hard.

You are making an obvious impression.

Give the A some time. It sounds like it is dying its own natural death. The signs your WW is showing and is telling you about is the very things my WW said about OM towards the end. Typically there will be a couple of bounces near the end, so be prepared for them when they occur. She may call you up one night and say, the A is over because of some fight or something, only to find out a few days later they are back together again. So be prepared and guard your feelings, and if she does say the A is over one night, give it a few days before you go back (without her knowing what you are doing) just in case she bounces back into OM's arms.

Thanx all for the replies. I agree that this is a positive step, now it is up to me to return the effort and make WW feel comfortable around me. I was/am so very close to giving up and I know WW senses it. I am rejoicing in this small sign and pray that in the coming days more progress will be made. This weekend I am going to be busy with the kids (going to the mtns for the day tomorrow) so I wont have much of an opportunity to have a lot of contact with WW. Probably better, give me a chance to let this all soak in and get myself in the right frame of mind.

WW is very worried that I hold a lot of bitterness and anger towards her and I am going to use it against her. True that I have some bad feelings, but if we can communicate in a positive manner, these feelings can be expressed without them being major LB's. I can appreciate her concern and will do everything I can to keep my feelings in check. She is also worried that I will become overly loving and smother her with too much attention, affection and want to have sex all the time. Also true, but hey, I'm a guy and it has been how long? I will just have to keep my distance and approach this area very cautiously, let her tell me when she is uncomfortable having me too close.

JL- what I meant by keeping my feelings in check is exactly what you said. I do have a quick temper and have on too many occasions lost my cool and allowed disagreements to turn into verbal boxing matches. I also do the opposite and brood when I am feeling angry or frustrated. I wont hide my feelings from WW, I'll be honest and open and let her know how I feel in a constructive way.

So we will see what happens now. I'm still not pushing anything, I'll let WW make the effort to want to make things happen and then react accordingly. Sure is a better place to be in than 11 months ago though.

LHS:

JL put into words best what I meant about not hiding your frustrations.

You're right, though. This can be very hard to do without angering her or anchoring her on the fence even more than she is now. I find I slip up all the time, but at least by being honest about how I feel, it feels like we make minute progress. If I just "play nice" ALL the time, we get nowhere, and the fence-sitting, cake-eating gets comfortable for the WS again.

No easy way out, to be sure. Hard work.