We're in the final stages here before Plan B, and after Tuesday's session with Steve, I just may need this to be ready....so...final editing/feedback/suggestions are appreciated!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My Dear W,

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that I have been working on for weeks now.

I sincerely apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your relationship with OM possible. I foolishly pursued my career thinking I was doing the right thing for us and our family, without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

I can commit to a marriage based on honesty, openness and mutual respect and care for the other's well-being. I can commit to marriage with you on those terms - I cannot commit to marriage on any terms other than those, and I am determined not to.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I’ve made in the past and work hard to create a new life for both of us that will meet both our needs. I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OM and all other relationships and emotional commitments which require you to maintain a secret second life that takes away from our relationship, for once and for all. I love you and I want our marriage to work but in order to preserve my love for you I am no longer able to keep working on our marriage until there is no contact with the other man.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially in meeting all of our current obligations. I will continue to pay the mortgage and I will provide you & the children with groceries and other basic needs, but I will not be able to pay for utilities or for your car and other expenses of our home; you will have to cover those yourself. I have made arrangements for the children to see or stay with me whenever they desire, but they must do it without you. If I should need to come to the house, I will make sure to do it when you are not there, or will make arrangements with the children to bring me what I might need. I’d appreciate your leaving my mail in the mailbox as I will pick it up myself. If you need to communicate with me regarding the children or any other matter, it will have to be through a friend or family member, (I might suggest D or B), unless it is an emergency involving the children, in which case I will take your call.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, while knowing that you are with him, and hearing the sound of your voice when you speak to him; sounds I have not heard in many years. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OM, demonstrate it in a credible way, and are willing to follow measures to ensure total and permanent separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together. We cannot make the mistake we made in the past, thinking that by just ending the external relationship things would work themselves out. The scars that episode left in us are probably one of the major factors in why we are where we are today. We must commit to our marriage and to each other as our number one priority in every way, and we must jointly agree to a marriage recovery plan that includes the following: Protection - avoiding being the cause of each other’s unhappiness; Care - meeting each other’s emotional needs; Time - giving each other our undivided attention; and Honesty - being totally open and honest with each other. Steve Harley can help us do this, as well as help us with a plan we can both agree on.

I understand how difficult this is for you as well, and I will make every effort to provide you with comfort and support as we work through this together.

I love you and I want us to spend the rest of our lives together. I believe in you. I believe in your ambitions and goals for your business and your life. I marvel at what you've done for us and for so many others over the years. Our children; look at the people they're becoming, in large part due to the time YOU chose to spend with them. YOU made yourself the person you are today. Nobody else did. You deserve to be as proud as I am of your accomplishments as a woman, a businessperson and a mother.

I love you W; you will always be very special to me. I look back through our life and I choose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too.

I am worthy of love, true love as are you. I hope that we can work it out and be the best of friends. I hope with all of my heart that we can both put aside our harsh feelings and frustrations and see the good. I understand that right now you may look towards our marriage as something that is painful, but if we both try, it will work out because that is how love is. Love is fairytales and dreams, love is going through heartache and knowing within your soul that you will always love that person and that even though we have hurt one another, you will always be beautiful to me.

I’ve loved you since I met you, I loved you when we married, and I continue to love you today; perhaps even more than I ever did before. I look at the picture of us on the beach, and I remember the dreams and the hopes, the stars, and the sunsets we watched. I remember our first awkward time together, and I still believe those dreams are possible. I just cannot be with you or see you while you are still involved with OM and feel the need to have a separate life without me.

All my love,

Spacecase
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Spacecase,

Overall it looks like a good plan b letter. Some minor things are addressed below. I do have one question though. Steve Harley told me that a plan b letter is not to educate. Some of what you have written is "education" of your WS, i.e. the part about the marriage recovery plan ....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and I am determined not to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds wishy washy & I think would be better without it.

[/QUOTE] If you need to communicate with me regarding the children or any other matter, it will have to be through a friend or family member[/QUOTE]

Leave out have just say : it will be through a friend or family member.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> marriage recovery plan that includes the following: Protection - avoiding being the cause of each other’s unhappiness; Care - meeting each other’s emotional needs; Time - giving each other our undivided attention; and Honesty - being totally open and honest with each other. Steve Harley can help us do this, as well as help us with a plan we can both agree on.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the education part that I'm not sure should be in here based on what Steve Harley told me. Your case may be different.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will be willing to discuss our future together. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Soften this - Then we can talk about our futrue together.....



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it will work out because that is how love is </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No one knows if it will work out maybe say I believe it will work out...

Spacecase, do you already have a place to live and all of your arrangements made? Here's another thought - if things don't work and you decide on a dv, how would the state of TX look at your moving out? I think it might be a no fault state (can't remember, haven't lived there for over 8 years)

You and your family will be in my prayers.

God Bless,

D.

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

SC,

In all, looks good...

I'm always a fan for "shorter is better", so here's a couple of possible changes:

Before: The scars that episode left in us are probably one of the major factors in why we are where we are today. We must commit to our marriage and to each other as our number one priority in every way, and we must jointly agree to a marriage recovery plan that includes the following: Protection - avoiding being the cause of each other’s unhappiness; Care - meeting each other’s emotional needs; Time - giving each other our undivided attention; and Honesty - being totally open and honest with each other. Steve Harley can help us do this, as well as help us with a plan we can both agree on.

After: I believe we can jointly arrive at a positive plan that will ensure we're both happy with our lives together.

Also, this statement might seem contradictary for her: "I understand how difficult this is for you as well, and I will make every effort to provide you with comfort and support as we work through this together."

(She's given one message - I can't interact with you at all, then this gives another - I can interact with you, i.e. support.) If you meant "after she wakes up", then you might want to make that clear or omit altogether.

Have you sent a copy to Steve for perusal prior to your next session?

Hi Cadet,

I read your letter and it almost made me cry. I am not a good critic of letters (I am better at being the MB welcome wagon and babble decoder person - LOL!). But I will give it a shot.

1. Don't tell her you have been working on this letter for weeks. Don't give the timeframe. Just say this has been weighing on my mind and heart for quite a while now (let her wonder how long).

2. Your apology makes you sound as if you are the sole reason for the A. Shorten it a bit.
Like: It has become evident that our M has suffered due to neglect by both of us. While striving to meet the needs of our family we may have missed meeting the needs of each other. For my part, I truly apologize for my neglect of your needs. I still love you and want you as my partner for life but find it difficult to do so with a 3rd wheel (OM). For this reason and with a heavy heart I must notify you of the following:........

3. Less "I" words and more "we" of "us" verbage. Present it as you and your family vs her. Not to pit one against the other but show her that her association with the OM puts her outside the family. You may find it necessary to mention keeping the family and yourself safe. Think about what safe means to you and your family. Think about what may happen if the OM is a 'free man' and has free access to you and your posessions (including your family).

Well something like that. U see if you present yourself as the reason for the demise of the M and her attitude is to still blame you, then she could use this opportunity to rid herself of any blame and while in the fog give the burden of guilt all on you, after all you did admit you shared the blame so why not take all of it? See? That is not true but it could be taken that way.

Well I will stop for now. I mentioned your letter to another MBer. Hopefully he will be checking up on you soon. He is much better at this critquing stuff than I am.

take care,
L.

SC,

I guess I'll do this the same way. My recommendations are to keep what is in bold and consider deleting what is not bold OK?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My Dear W,

This is a difficult letter for me to write. But, many things have been on my mind and as a result I am starting to change how I view things. I hope this letter conveys to you the love a feel for you and fear I will lose., one that I have been working on for weeks now.

I sincerely apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your relationship with OM possible. I foolishly pursued my career thinking I was doing the right thing for us and our family, without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

I can commit to a marriage based on honesty, openness and mutual respect and care for the other's well-being. I can commit to marriage with you on those terms - I cannot commit to marriage on any terms other than those, and I am determined not to. ( Don't think this is necessary)

I have reviewed my mistakes and I am willing to avoid the mistakes I’ve made in the past and work hard to create a new life for both of us that will meet both our needs. I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OM and all other relationships and emotional commitments which require you to maintain a secret second life that takes away from our relationship, for once and for all. I love you and I want our marriage to work but in order to preserve my love for you I am no longer able to maintain contact with you keep working on our marriage until there is no contact with the other man.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially in meeting all of our current obligations. I will continue to pay the mortgage and I will provide you & the children with groceries and other basic needs, but I will not be able to pay for utilities or for your car and other expenses of our home; you will have to cover those yourself. I have made arrangements for the children to see or stay with me whenever they desire, but they must do it without you. If I should need to come to the house, I will make sure to do it when you are not there, or will make arrangements with the children to bring me what I might need. I’d appreciate your leaving my mail in the mailbox as I will pick it up myself. If you need to communicate with me regarding the children or any other matter, it will have to be through a friend or family member, (I might suggest D or B), unless it is an emergency involving the children, in which case I will take your call.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You may be aware of must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OM, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, while knowing that you are with him, and hearing the sound of your voice when you speak to him; sounds I have not heard in many years. These things are removing the love I feel for you so although I still love you, but I cannot see you under these conditions. I must not see you in order to preserve the love I have left.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OM, demonstrate it in a credible way, and are willing to follow measures to ensure total and permanent separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together. We cannot make the mistake we made in the past, thinking that by just ending the external relationship things would work themselves out. The scars that episode left in us are probably one of the major factors in why we are where we are today. We must commit to our marriage and to each other as our number one priority in every way, and we must jointly agree to a marriage recovery plan that includes the following: Protection - avoiding being the cause of each other’s unhappiness; Care - meeting each other’s emotional needs; Time - giving each other our undivided attention; and Honesty - being totally open and honest with each other. Steve Harley can help us do this, as well as help us with a plan we can both agree on. ( SC this sounds too much like education to me. If she decides to end it then you can talk to her about this stuff)

I understand how difficult this is for you as well, and I will make every effort to provide you with comfort and support as we work through this together. (As someone said this is contradictory to what the purpose of this letter is about)

I love you and I want us to spend the rest of our lives together. I believe in you. I believe in your ambitions and goals for your business and your life. I marvel at what you've done for us and for so many others over the years. Our children; look at the people they're becoming, in large part due to the time YOU chose to spend with them. YOU made yourself the person you are today. Nobody else did. You deserve to be as proud as I am of your accomplishments as a woman, a businessperson and a mother. (I don't think this should be here and if you want to simply say you are proud of her many accomplishments it should be added as a sentence in the finally paragraph)

I love you W; you will always be very special to me. I look back through our life and I choose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too.

I am worthy of love, true love as are you. I hope that we can work it out and be the best of friends. I hope with all of my heart that we can both put aside our harsh feelings and frustrations and see the good. I understand that right now you may look towards our marriage as something that is painful, but if we both try, it will work out because that is how love is. Love is fairytales and dreams, love is going through heartache and knowing within your soul that you will always love that person and that even though we have hurt one another, you will always be beautiful to me. (The rest of this paragraph is education and will only make sense IF she leaves OM)

I’ve loved you since I met you, I loved you when we married, and I continue to love you today; perhaps even more than I ever did before. I look at the picture of us on the beach, and I remember the dreams and the hopes, the stars, and the sunsets we watched. I remember our first awkward time together, and I still believe those dreams are possible. I just cannot be with you or see you while you are still involved with OM and feel the need to have a separate life without me.

All my love,

Spacecase
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ August 03, 2002, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Hi Spacecase,

I'm hoping you don't need your Plan B letter, and that if you do need it that it will be the shortest Plan B in history--like about 5 minutes.

I will give you my opinion(s) but PLEASE keep in mind that I have never written a Plan B letter, currently I am not doing a good Plan A and have no desire to do so, I should have separated months ago but did not, and overall I just want to get on with my life without going around the same circle it's been going since FWH *committed* to rebuilding (over a year ago). I am telling you all this because I think it's important to "consider the source" when deciding how much weight any advice merits--I am confident you will take what is helpful to you and toss the rest.

Here goes....

Paragraph 1--I wouldn't be specific on how long. I might say something like "and was hoping I wouldn't need to give you".

Paragraph 2--I would change "my mistakes" to "those mistakes".

Paragragh 3--2nd sentence: I would take out the words before the hyphen, say "our marriage" instead of just "marriage", and take out the words after the comma.

Paragraph 4--1st sentence: Between the words "to avoid" I would insert the words "continue to learn to". 2nd sentence: Between the words "cannot do" I would insert the words "continue to". Last sentence: I would make it clearer and more concise. The "preserve your love" concept got lost for me when I read it.

Paragraph 5--1st sentence: I would take out "Until then" and would consider inserting the words "need to" between "will avoid". 2nd sentence: I would change the whole sentence so that it is said in a way that does not *yank* your financial support but says that you will be *unable to give her as much* financial support as you have been. 3rd sentence: I would insert the word "living" between the words "other expenses" and put a period (take out "of our home" and especially "you will have to cover those yourself". The rest of the sentences in this paragraph sound kinda harsh--not like the loving Spacecase you have been--so I would rewrite them in a loving, boundary-setting way that you have gotten so good at doing.

Paragraph 6--2nd sentence: Between the words "about the" I would insert the words "some of". I would change "simply cannot be with you any longer" to "simply cannot continue like this any longer". I would delete the rest of the sentence and paragraph after this.

Paragraph 7--I would take this whole thing out but would incorporate the last sentence with the next paragragh.

Paragraph 8--I wouldn't offer her comfort, etc but I would incorporate the SH sentence taken from Paragraph 7.

I have to stop now but will try to continue later.

And I want to say that however you decide to write your final draft, I'm sure it will convey the love you have for your WW--and I hope her Taker won't be able to overshadow that. Take care Spacecase, I'm sure you and your WW will continue to be in a lot of people's prayers.

Wow!
Lots of feedback...not sure I can make ALL of it work in there, but I'll try.
Thanks everyone!

I will, of course, run the final draft by the forum and by Steve before I deliver it. (If I have to deliver it...)

Hi SpaceCase - sorry it has come to this. You have a better handle on the MB concepts than I do, but maybe I can offer one suggestion. Instead of listing specific items that you will pay for, provide a fixed amount each month that conforms to the support formula in TX. You do not want her turning in receipts each month, like she's on an expense account. That would most likely lead to more contact, and some arguments. If divorced, you are not going to be responsible for her bills.

Well, here's a 2nd suggestion: If you have school-age kids, look for an apartment in the same school district. On the day I moved out, we had a one-page agreement, witnessed by my sister-in-law, that set a rotation of 5/14 overnights. We didn't agree on anything else, but that was the key point appearing in our final court-ordered custody agreement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tmmx:
<strong>Hi SpaceCase - sorry it has come to this. You have a better handle on the MB concepts than I do, but maybe I can offer one suggestion. Instead of listing specific items that you will pay for, provide a fixed amount each month that conforms to the support formula in TX. You do not want her turning in receipts each month, like she's on an expense account. That would most likely lead to more contact, and some arguments. If divorced, you are not going to be responsible for her bills.

Well, here's a 2nd suggestion: If you have school-age kids, look for an apartment in the same school district. On the day I moved out, we had a one-page agreement, witnessed by my sister-in-law, that set a rotation of 5/14 overnights. We didn't agree on anything else, but that was the key point appearing in our final court-ordered custody agreement.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I pay all of these things directly electronically thru the internet, so really no contact besides emails would be necessary.

But maybe you're right; I should probably say I will continue to pay for what I can cover, discounting the cost of living elsewhere. That'll just be about $1,000-1,200/month she'll have to cover, and certainly more than Texas law requires.

My kids are 20, 16 and 16 so they are really free to come and go as they please. IF it comes to divorce, I'll sue for custody based on the fact that she's dating a convicted drug dealer, and I'm fairly sure any court will give that to me.

Spacecase - you need to set up mail forwarding with the post office, and unlike me, do it a few days in advance so that it starts seamlessly. Do not imply that you will be going into the mailbox, nor into the house when she isn't there, both are lovebusters.

Along the same lines, make sure you have a separate checking account and credit card applied for in your own name. Switch automatic payroll deposits to your own checking account. Make copies of bank account statements, credit card statements, titles, insurance policies, and other important stuff before you move out. Leave her copies, so that you are both on the same page. Tell her that you will cancel joint credit cards within 30 days, giving her time to get her own card. Tell your insurance agent you are separating. Probably you thought of all this, but when you give her the letter, all of the logistical details must be in place. Things move quickly on B-day...

Wow - we are posting in real-time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

If you are planning to pay what you can cover, and more than TX law requires, then you are assuming too much responsibility for her welfare under plan B. As I remember, she's already working, right? Just figure out what her temporary support order would be, it should be straightforward, and pay that every month. If she files for support, you will not be in arrears when the amount is settled.

You should not have automatic payments on any of her bills. If they are coming from a joint checking account, and you stop depositing to that account, then it's okay. In PA, when the support amount is ordered they have automatic payroll deduction to the state, which then makes automatic deposits to the dependent spouse's account. So the cash flow is predictable for both parties. Do they have this in TX? I thought most states were moving that way, formulas and automatic payments.

Maybe the support amount from the TX formula is "not enough". Well, that's the whole point. You must be willing to see her struggle, before you can start plan B. It's supposed to be a realistic preview of divorce.

Maybe you are willing to be generous, because you really expect plan B to work and you will end up back together. Is that right? Would you feel the same way if you end up divorced, would you still feel so generous? Are you prepared mentally for plan B to go either way?

I don't think a court will give you custody just based on who your wife dates. Maybe if they cohabitate and this guy operates his business out of the house, or if your wife were a drug dealer herself - but maybe not even then. If custody of the 16 year-olds is important to you, make sure you checked with a lawyer about the proper groundwork.

TMMX;
Good feedback, some of those things I have not done, and need to do.

As far as how much I'll pay, here's the rub; If I don't pay as much as possible, we risk losing the house or cars, etc. She cannot pay for all of that. So 2-3 months of Plan B, I'll cover as much as I can. IF we get to divorce, that's a different story. I'll probably be able to keep the house on my own, she will not be able to do that. I also don't want her to "choose" to come back to me because of money. So I want to make it hard enough to hurt, but not hard enough that she can't do it. I don't want to take everything apart prior to a divorce; I'm trying to keep things as normal and unchanged as possible during Plan B.

If we divorce, it's a whole new ballgame. Very different. I'd pay what the law requires, no more, no less. And we'd see about the other stuff.

We'll se about custody, we're not there yet and that's not the only factor. There are others I cannot discuss here. Either way, the kids are old enough to have some latitude as far as that is concerned.

Here's the new, edited version:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My Dear W,

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that has been weighing on my heart and mind for some time.

It has become evident that our M has suffered due to neglect by both of us. While striving to meet the needs of our family we have missed meeting each other’s needs. I sincerely apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your relationship with OM possible. I foolishly pursued my career thinking I was doing the right thing for us and our family, without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

I can commit to a marriage based on honesty, openness and mutual respect and care for the other's well-being. I can commit to marriage with you on those terms - I cannot commit to marriage on any terms other than those.

I have reviewed my mistakes and I am willing to work hard to create a new life for both of us that will meet both our needs. I cannot continue to do that until you end your relationship with OM and all other relationships and emotional commitments which require you to maintain a secret second life that takes away from our relationship, for once and for all. I love you and I want our marriage to work but in order to preserve my love for you I am no longer able to maintain contact with you until there is no contact with the other man.

Until then, I will need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you as much financially in meeting all of our current obligations. I will continue to pay the mortgage and I will provide you & the children with groceries and other basic needs, but I will not be able to pay for utilities or for your car and other living expenses. You will have to cover those yourself, as being apart is costly. I have made arrangements for the children to see or stay with me whenever they desire, but they should do it without you. If I should need to come to the house, I will make sure to do it when you are not there, or will make arrangements with the children to bring me what I might need. I’d appreciate your leaving my mail in the mailbox as I will pick it up myself. If you need to communicate with me regarding the children or any other matter, it will be through a friend or family member, (I might suggest D or B), unless it is an emergency involving the children, in which case I will take your call.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You may be aware of the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OM, and I simply cannot continue like this any longer, while knowing that you are with him, and hearing the sound of your voice when you speak to him; sounds I have not heard in many years. These things are removing the love I feel for you so although I still love you, I must not see you in order to preserve the love I have left.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OM, demonstrate it in a credible way, and are willing to follow measures to ensure total and permanent separation, then we can talk about our future together. We cannot make the mistake we made in the past, thinking that by just ending the external relationship things would work themselves out. I believe we can jointly arrive at a positive plan that will ensure we're both happy with our lives together.

I understand how difficult this will be for you as well, and I will make every effort to provide you with comfort and support as we work through this together. Steve Harley can help us do this, as well as help us create a plan that we can both agree on.

I love you W; you will always be very special to me. I look back through our life and I choose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too. I hope that we can work it out and be the best of friends. I hope with all of my heart that we can both put aside our harsh feelings and frustrations and see the good, and see the hope.

I’ve loved you since I met you, I loved you when we married, and I continue to love you today; perhaps even more than I ever did before. I look at the picture of us on the beach, and I remember the dreams and the hopes, the stars, and the sunsets we watched. I remember our first awkward time together, and I still believe those dreams are possible. I just cannot be with you or see you while you are still involved with OM and feel the need to have a separate life without me.

All my love,

Spacecase
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Did Steve Harley agree that you're in the proper mindset for plan B? To me, it doesn't seem like you are, because you are still trying to shield her from the full impact. She might be thinking that she'll still have your bottom-line financial support, plus whatever emotional fulfillment the OM gives her.

Suppose you do a "full-blown" plan B, and then you get back together. All of the plan B stuff can be undone much easier and cheaper, than it would have been to go through with a divorce. So don't let that thought stop you from taking things apart now.

If you try to calibrate this too much, that can also be seen as manipulative.

With your kids being older, you should be able to do a better plan B than many of us can. Presumably you have college expenses to worry about. I would put that before your wife's needs in plan B. Even to the point of letting the house go first.

- Tom

Spacecase,

I had my Taker read your Plan B letter. All I can say is that it took a real effort to keep putting Taker back out there--and after reading the third from the last paragraph I just gave it up. GOOD JOB!!

Your immense love for your WW--and your own limitations due to the current circumstances inspite of your immense love--came through loud and clear!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tmmx:
<strong>Did Steve Harley agree that you're in the proper mindset for plan B? To me, it doesn't seem like you are, because you are still trying to shield her from the full impact. She might be thinking that she'll still have your bottom-line financial support, plus whatever emotional fulfillment the OM gives her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Steve knows I'm ready...been ready. I'm not trying to "shield" her; I'm just trying to make sure that if she chooses to try to save our M, she does it for the right reasons, not for financial considerations. Besides, I don't plan on being in Plan B longer that 3 months. Come that time, I file for D. Makes no sense to wait any longer. It's been nearly a year since dday.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Suppose you do a "full-blown" plan B, and then you get back together. All of the plan B stuff can be undone much easier and cheaper, than it would have been to go through with a divorce. So don't let that thought stop you from taking things apart now.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not the cost I'm concerned with, it's the hassle. Why go through all that when it's not necessary. Like I said...3 months, then it's over.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
If you try to calibrate this too much, that can also be seen as manipulative.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please explain..."calibrate"? What is manipulative?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
With your kids being older, you should be able to do a better plan B than many of us can. Presumably you have college expenses to worry about. I would put that before your wife's needs in plan B. Even to the point of letting the house go first.

- Tom </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">College expenses are taken care of already. And I don't want to lose the house, especially if we divorce; my 2 younger kids still have 2 years of HS here, and if we divorce I intend to keep the house and get custody. I will not expose my children to becoming the step-children of a convicted cocaine dealer.

<small>[ August 04, 2002, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Made me cry. I loved it. She is crazy for messing around on a man like you. wu

Spacecase,
I lurk a lot on your threads, but don't often reply because I don't feel I have answers, really. I do think your WW must be in a very deep fog (I guess they all are) to not be able to see your unconditional love for her and commitment to the marriage.
Plan B has been good for me overall. I have a counseling session with SH Aug. 22 (soonest I could get in). I
I pray Plan B will do the trick for your WW.
I was thinking I would give my Plan B until Spring of 2003. I teach school, and that would have me taking some kind of legal action before summer. Just a question for you...some say we should let the WS do the filing. What do you think?
I'm of the mind that I will do it myself if/when the time comes.
Praying for you!
kk

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wucus:
<strong>Made me cry. I loved it. She is crazy for messing around on a man like you. wu</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks W, it's nice to hear things like that. I don't remember seeing much of you at MB...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kk2002:
<strong>Spacecase,
I lurk a lot on your threads, but don't often reply because I don't feel I have answers, really. I do think your WW must be in a very deep fog (I guess they all are) to not be able to see your unconditional love for her and commitment to the marriage.
Plan B has been good for me overall. I have a counseling session with SH Aug. 22 (soonest I could get in). I
I pray Plan B will do the trick for your WW.
I was thinking I would give my Plan B until Spring of 2003. I teach school, and that would have me taking some kind of legal action before summer. Just a question for you...some say we should let the WS do the filing. What do you think?
I'm of the mind that I will do it myself if/when the time comes.
Praying for you!
kk</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KK,
I think I've replied on youir threads a few times...
Definitely very deep fog. 11 months since dday, more than 9 times repeat offender, lies, lies, lies, and the belief that this "does not affect us" and is her "right as an indicidual" to have...totally bizzare. But, as they say, one plays with the cards one is dealt.

I'm determined not to make too much of a production of this. Plan B for 3 months, if she shows some inclination to defogging, continues counseling and Steve sees progress...great. Otherwise, why prolong the agony?

Each case, of course, is different, and we all have our reasons/justifications for our decisions. I feel that 11 months of putting up with this, probably 6 solid Plan A months, and several months of counseling with Steve, and NO sign of the truth, remorse, etc. Then 3 months of Plan B...I mean what more is a man supposed to do?

I've gotten to the point where I know I deserve better. I HAVE always deserved better and I've given it up for many years in the "hope" that she'd one day reciprocate...but it never happened. So it's really my time now. I'm not getting any younger, my kids are about ready to take off on their own, and I deserve a woman who truly loves me. If it's her, wonderful...nothing could beat that; nothing. But if she's unable to come back and be what she should have been in the first place, so be it.

I don't see any particular reason to let the WS file for D. Maybe for some that's a distinction that means something, or a desire to make a point. I don't know. There may be very good reasons for that (I'll ask Steve). But as I see it, it's my final signal that my life is too valuable and important to continue to wait around for her while she's "in love" with someone else. Really; I mean if she's SO in love, and he's SO wonderful and perfect for her that she'll put me and the family through this agony for it, she should have the liberty to pursue that, she deserves the love she wants, and if he gives it to her...she should have it. Perhaps if things had been different I may feel otherwise, but that's how I feel.

Don't get me wrong; this breaks my heart. I have known and loved my W since we were kids. We've spent the better part of our lives together and I adore her. I positively would do ANYTHING for her, feel like I always did (although I know better now), but I have also discovered my unmet needs, and I can no longer go back. I will no longer tolerate to share her. She can have him if that's what she wants, but she can no longer also have me.

Thanks for coming by, KK.