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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dreamland: <strong> I am worried that you are going to give her too much at once to deal with at once...Be simple in your request and it will be received better. Your list is almost preachy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DL; you've misinterpreted my intent. I am NOT going to give her or tell her this list. I am going to listen to what she offers, and compare it to my list. On my own. I'm only going to listen at this point. <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Because of your WW's past and lying about NC, you need to have her write a NC letter and review it and make sure it gets in OM's hands. The NC letter should go on your MUST HAVE list. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Under "normal" circumstances, this would be correct. However, remember that he's in prison for the next 6-8 years, and his communication options are controlled. So as long as the comm is stopped, and I can verify it, I don't frankly care WHAT he thinks is happening. In fact, it MAY be better for my W just to disappear from him... <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By the tone of your post here, I get the feeling that you do not want to go back now. That you want to go to Plan B whatever the costs. Is this even partially true?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not at all. I'm just not willing to go back for crumbs or for partial, teaser offerings. I'll go back for the whole enchilada, or what appears to be a credible committment to the whole enchilada, or I'm headed to Plan B, and if necessary, Plan D. <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> IMHO: There should be no counteroffering or dealing here, this is not a car dealership, this is a marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I don't really agree, DL. She will offer what she thinks I'll be willing to accept to come home, no more than that. I can then come back and say, "Hon, you know, X that you offered is not really that important to me, what do you think of Y?" and so on so that I can get as close to what I want as possible. Obviously if I hold out for a total committment to every item on the list immediately, it's not going to happen, but I do need a few minimum items, and a serious committment to some others. Not getting what I need to live in peace and start rebuilding trust is the saem as when a BS lets the WS back in without conditions or clarity...we'll end up in Plan B again and again.
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Something happened and my post came in twice,
<small>[ August 14, 2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>
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Dear Space:
You really sound great. I admire your approach. Listen, comprehend then act.
When I grow up I want to be just like you.
All my best to you and your family.
Jack
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by willmakeitwork:
<strong>Dear Space:
You really sound great. I admire your approach. Listen, comprehend then act.
When I grow up I want to be just like you.
All my best to you and your family.
Jack</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Glad I'm inspiring you, Jack, and that I sound that way...because behind the brave words, and the best-laid plans, is a scared, uncertain BS, just trying to make it through this! LOL!!!
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>Thanks, HH!
I will go, listen, take notes, clarify if necessary, thank her for her candor and her willingness to talk/negotiate, express my hopes for our bright future together, and let her know I'll think about it.
Depending on what she is offering (and asking for in return!), I'll probably counter-offer, and so on. If she's being very, very reasonable (yeah, right!), and offering pretty much all I want, cool! We'll ponder it a day or two and decide. If she's not being so reasonable, we'll let her simmer a bit longer and counter-offer.
I am not particularly eager or desperate to go back home; the pain is still too fresh, and I'm certainly NOT going to give up what I've gotten for myself. I'm right where I want to be right now; looking at my options.
I also don't want to appear too eager. Besides, the pressure on her will mount in the coming days when the "kiddoes" go back to school, and even more a few days later when big kiddo goes back to Austin...so I'm in no rush. Besides, I get a better rate here if I stay a month...no tax!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Space
You are my hero! Sounds to me you have a great plan and the right frame of mind to carry it out!
Best of Luck!
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Boy, I'm glad everyone has such confidence in me. I wish I was half as confident!!! LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
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Dear Space: I don't know you sound pretty normal to me. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Glad I'm inspiring you, Jack, and that I sound that way...because behind the brave words, and the best-laid plans, is a scared, uncertain BS, just trying to make it through this! LOL!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Going out into the unknown is always scary. No risk no reward. You will benefit one way or the other. Think of the lesson you are teaching your children. I hope my daughter will want to go out of her way to have dinner with me, when she is your daughter's age. As HH said you DA MAN. Jack
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Hi Space,
This is from the 13t, first post on this thread by you.
Then Steve goes on "She has very serious doubts as to your ability to re-build love and care in your M. She asks "What about me? What do I get?" and I told her that the success of that is ALSO dependent on her working as a team, and not as an individual. The same thing applies; what you've been doing does not work. You know that. That is confirmed now. You have to try something else, why not try the team approach, what I'm suggesting? I know this works, it's worked for a lot of other people. And she seems willing to do it, but you have to reinforce and be encouraging about your belief in the future."
Remember, ( I know you know all this, but we all need to hear it over and over,) she has issues with you that go back years also. Her feelings are real and can't be changed quickly. It will take years for both of you to make these changes permanent and normal.
I think Steve is wise to delay if she is coming towards a compromise. If you can play the middle for a while, and she knows you are trying, and you know she is, it will be better than plan B anyway.
Be respectful of her feelings, and try to see things from her side. She is probably committing the greater sin, but yours are still in her mind. Continue to help her get them out. You have a great gift in all that you have learned here, I believe you have used it wisely - keep it up.
Lastly, don't worry quite so much about every little thing. I'm with JL on this one. Spend time in other ways, get that job, get to know the kids better. Continue to help others here as you have been doing. I believe you will come out of this in really good shape. Since you often ask for reasons, I believe this because you seem to understand the concepts behind MB, and you seem to be willing to DO them. Remember that DR Harley didn't invent this stuff. He took a principal that is always true ( you can get better results with normal people by being nice to them than if you are mean to them) and breaks it down so people can learn it and use it. I think you being able to take these principals and make them real in your life as you are doing, means you will be OK.
I know sometimes you feel too close to this to see anything, but that is how we all feel about our own situation. I worry about you ( I worry about everyone that has this kind of pain) but you recover well, and you respond correctly in most cases, so keep on.
I say again, I believe you will be all right long term.
SS
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Double post - me too, me too.
<small>[ August 14, 2002, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>
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I know why things are starting to sound logical and so "organized"...this has become a Project! Without even realizing it, that's what happened, and that's why I look so confident! LOL!!! This is easy!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <strong>OK, first we have our resources:</strong> Battered BS MB Forum Calloused Ego Wellbutrin Coke, Cold Pizza, Snickers, Cashews Low Expectations Plan B Letter Third Rate Extended Stay <strong>Then we have our timeline:</strong> The next minute An hour A day A week A month 3 Months Forever For F-ing EVER <strong>Then we have our Tasks:</strong> Recovery False Recovery Wishful thinking Recovery Semi-Plan B Real Plan B Plan D Homicide Suicide <strong>Then we have our risks:</strong> Reluctant WS Extremely Reluctant WS Suspiciously Cooperative WS Crazy WS Furious WS OM Released from Prison <strong>And of course, Risk Mitigation:</strong> Steve Harley Honorable Retreat Dis-Honorable Retreat Groveling Crying Begging Pleading <strong>Our Budget:</strong> Very low No problem! This is a breeze, I'll have the Project Plan ready by early tonight! Complete with Gantt charts, flow charts, Visio workflows, and everything! No wonder I sound so confident....now we're talkin' stuff I understand! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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FunEEEEEEEEEEEE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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sheesh! Why dint ya lay it all out like this earlier? You coulda saved the company big $$ in overtime! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
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Bravo Space!
My favorite quality in you is you SENSE OF HUMOR!!
Better watch out...this could make that best posts list!
You could consider being a stand-up comedian. I don't know what the pay is but think of Leno!Think of what a big audience you would have with all the MBers in Houston! A sold out house every night! The rest of us could come in on private bus tours; sort of a package deal! Please keep it up!! CSue
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Hey Spaceguy on the Southside, This sounds encouraging!! I think it was the new cologne!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just go slow.... let her do the work here. The Brat on the Northside (who will someday post her story and seek input....)
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by willmakeitwork:
<strong>Dear Space:
...Going out into the unknown is always scary. No risk no reward. You will benefit one way or the other. Think of the lesson you are teaching your children. I hope my daughter will want to go out of her way to have dinner with me, when she is your daughter's age.
Jack</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't mean to belittle anyone's comments or support by replying with a bit of self-deprecating humor. I'm sorry if I have.
I am very proud of my children's solidarity and love, and most of all that they have been able to remain neutral and will not take sides. The saddest part of that is that to a great extent, that is my W's doing.
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SS, I am SO sorry, here you are putting so much time and thought into helping me, and what am I doing? Composing funny stuff. Truly, I DO need and appreciate your feedback. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by still seeking: <strong>Hi Space, Remember, ( I know you know all this, but we all need to hear it over and over,) she has issues with you that go back years also. Her feelings are real and can't be changed quickly. It will take years for both of you to make these changes permanent and normal. I think Steve is wise to delay if she is coming towards a compromise. If you can play the middle for a while, and she knows you are trying, and you know she is, it will be better than plan B anyway. Be respectful of her feelings, and try to see things from her side. She is probably committing the greater sin, but yours are still in her mind. Continue to help her get them out. You have a great gift in all that you have learned here, I believe you have used it wisely - keep it up. Lastly, don't worry quite so much about every little thing. I'm with JL on this one. Spend time in other ways, get that job, get to know the kids better. Continue to help others here as you have been doing. I believe you will come out of this in really good shape. Since you often ask for reasons, I believe this because you seem to understand the concepts behind MB, and you seem to be willing to DO them. Remember that DR Harley didn't invent this stuff. He took a principal that is always true ( you can get better results with normal people by being nice to them than if you are mean to them) and breaks it down so people can learn it and use it. I think you being able to take these principals and make them real in your life as you are doing, means you will be OK. I know sometimes you feel too close to this to see anything, but that is how we all feel about our own situation. I worry about you ( I worry about everyone that has this kind of pain) but you recover well, and you respond correctly in most cases, so keep on. I say again, I believe you will be all right long term. SS </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Indeed, in light of her "offering" Steve is wise to give her the benefit of the doubt and try to meet her half-way. No question of that. It took both of us by surprise, and I think it turned out well. Thank G-d for that cancellation Steve had that let me get in that afternoon, otherwise I'd be here biting my nails and posting like a manica trying to figure out what to do! You are right on with this, and I'll take your advice to heart. I know I have to temper my desire for MY gratification and be more generous with understanding and meeting my W's needs. I know this, and I'm working on it. Preparing for it. I know that when she calls (if she calls) and I go, it will have to be a perfect encounter. She will bare some of her innermost secrets/feelings, and I MUST show respect for that. I'm preparing. And I know I worry too much, it's my nature to think ahead and build scenarios and contingency planning...I was just "drawn" that way. And although it probably annoys many of you, it helps me to be more secure and sure-footed when things turn out better...it makes it look easy! Thank you for your support and you votes of confidence. I mean that.
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Pep, Faith and CSue, you know you're among my very favoritest gals dontcha? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Glad I provided a bit of entertainment value today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Faith, I like to blow budgets, not come in under budget! What fun is that!?!? You don't get to present to the big-dogs with catered lunch! I mean there's nothing they can do! They'll cut the check if they want the project to end someday! And I get catered lunch just for a little powerpoint I can whip up in 10 minutes and a short presentation?! Any day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Stand-up comedy, huh, CSue...I don't know..."I'm not like that, I'm really kinda' shy.." (Sung to the Boston tune...) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
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All this has gotten me to thinking (Oh, NO!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) in my work, my professional life, I can get up in front of an auditorium with 5 minutes notice, and make whatever needs to happen happen. I can walk into a boardroom, run my PowerPoint, and get everyone on the same page and behind the project in 10 minutes, I can sit an IT guy and a Business guy, each with his own agenda, and have them shaking hands and working together in 20 minutes.
So why is it that I can't talk to my W? That for years and years we have not communicated? Can somebody help me with this?
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SS, I am SO sorry, here you are putting so much time and thought into helping me, and what am I doing? Composing funny stuff. Truly, I DO need and appreciate your feedback.
I didn't feel bad, I was laughing just as hard as everyone else. As you know, we all need both sides to be happy. You have pretty good balance too, another reason I think you will be fine.
I do worry about some of the friends you have here on this site. Does your wife know? Perhaps that is one reason she is so upset with you sometimes. You should be more careful. Didn't your mother ever warn you?
Don't worry too much about hurting our feelings, we kind of like you -
SS
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So why is it that I can't talk to my W? That for years and years we have not communicated? Can somebody help me with this? I believe one reason is closeness. We live with this person and think we know them, and assume things. We assume we are on the same page and often we are not. In business we are more careful to put the feelers out and make sure there is understanding before we go on, in marriage we often don't. I believe the other big one is fear. There is a post from JL about fear, it' not really the subject of the thread but I think he covered it well. You have to read the whole thing to get it, but you read pretty fast. Anyway, I think he explains it better than I could, so here it is. Discussion on fear, training spouse There are methods we can use to communicate better but often we don't use them in marriage. We want the short easy way that often turns out to be the long hard way. Much of this is covered in Steven Covey's "7 habits", it makes a good read, but then, you may be sick of reading this type of stuff by now. So, cold pizza again? No wonder you don't understand simple stuff like communicating in marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> SS
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