My reason for Plan B immediately is your own admission:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But what is MY reality? My reality is that I do not have a “life” outside of my wife and kids, and house, and family. Hell, I don’t even have a job. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have had 11 months to work on you and get a "life" and you have not. What you are doing now IS NOT WORKING!!!! Time to try something else.

Sure a few more days will not harm you, or will it? How much lower do you need to go before you get the release of letting go. No matter how hard you try, you can not "FIX" your WW, so let go, and move on. That is what you told me and what I tell you today. Plan B is moving on, you need it for YOU.

JL says:
“Why is it when the horse gets near the barn and can see it, that the horse breaks into a run??” The horse runs because every time it gets near the barn it gets hit in the head with a stick. Got it???? Let the barn come to you now.

Pepper:

""Happiness does not depend on your circumstances, but on your inner peace."
Months ago, I suggested to 2Long and to Spacey that this process is a spiritual journey , and has a deeper purpose, greater than restoring your marriages ..."

I'm really seeing this now. "I send out gratefulness in four directions" (- Hanta Yo, by Ruth Beebe Hill.)

"you scoffed at me"

We scoffed? We be sorry, Pep!

"I suggested that affairs indicate a spiritual anorexia .... I still hold that idea to be true ....."

That is true!

"You cannot pour lighter fluid on someone else's spirit and have it do any good."

Although, at night, the display would be inspiring! (sorry about that, it's a guy thing!)

"You both are favorites of mine 2Long and Spacecadet .... because I can see your inner light. And, it makes me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> "

Thanks from the 2long camp. I expect SC feels the way I do about all your help the past several months! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

SC:

"So, what to do? My Plan B mindset has been disrupted, my hopes have been raised again, making me have doubts about what to do, and everything seems to be spinning out of control."

I still think that the spinning out of control is due ENTIRELY to your dwelling on this too much (JUST LIKE I DID THAT WEEK, REMEMBER???). It'll make you nothing but crazy. Remember what a blithering twit I turned myself into on that Friday afternoon?

In spite of the "damage" I did to my "plan B" by coming home, I think I learned a helluva lot and so did my W. I have no idea just how much or even just WHAT she learned, but she's behaving differently toward me since that day.

Look. Fix the PC or don't fix the PC. Do what you want (although I'd suggest getting her a nice, colorful Mac instead - they only crash when you install Microsoft products on them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> - 2long ducks the barage of surplus PS2 mice and keyboards on ballistic trajectories toward his office from around the globe).

If it were me, I'd fix the thing, but keep contact with your W to a minimum and cordial. Talk to SH on Monday, and go from there. Go see a movie this afternoon with your kids. Eat a snocone or a wey shake or something.

I guess I should just chill out, catch the game and a pizza with my son tonight, and see what happens.

If she calls me again about the PC, I'll fix it for her and tell her she should start thinking about finding another way to take care of those things.

If Steve calls, or some other breakthrough feedback is received, I'll consider it, and barring that, I'll chill until Monday's call w/Steve, and we'll go from there.

I'm really in no hurry here, don't know why it felt like I was...weird. Thanks everyone!

DL;
Tell me something; what difference does it make for ME to be away from home with the possibility of hearing from or seeing my W for a few minutes here and there, and being in full Plan B?

And secondly, my W already thinks everything bad that happens or has happened to her is my fault, including her A, or that I've done it to hurt her. Now why would I go to Plan B on a sour note by refusing to fix her pc, and give her yet another (this time maybe valid) reason to say things like that?

I respect your position, and it makes sense, but remember, this is about me not about her. It seems to me that rushing into full Plan B now only has a real effect on her. It really does nothing significant for me. And it gives my W more ammunition to harden her posture.

Now that the Wellbutrin has kicked in, or whatever it was that de-escalated the situation, I can answer dearest Pep like she deserves.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Mr. Pepper went to an AA meeting recently and came home with this *pearl*.

"Happiness does not depend on your circumstances, but on your inner peace."

Months ago, I suggested to 2Long and to Spacey that this process is a spiritual journey , and has a deeper purpose, greater than restoring your marriages ... you scoffed at me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I suggested that affairs indicate a spiritual anorexia .... I still hold that idea to be true ..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep; I have to very humbly and apologetically say that you were and are right, and that I hope that if this situation of mine somehow reaches a place where my heart rate dips below strenuous exercise, I will TRULY INTERNALIZE and LIVE, BREATHE this wisdom.

Maybe I should take my Dad up on that meditation of his...can you meditate even if you smoke?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Spacey .... relax. Turn on your inner light. When you speak of "going dark" ... you are speaking of shining your light upon yourself, and NOT upon your spouse. You are actually "going light" for yourself. And your spouse will have to spark her own spiritual light herself. You cannot pour lighter fluid on someone else's spirit and have it do any good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely true, and just as absolutely, almost impossible to maintain ALL the time. I know this; I got there today (through no conscious effort on my part, I assure you!) and it's OK; it will be OK. I will be OK. I will survive and thrive.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
You both are favorites of mine 2Long and Spacecadet .... because I can see your inner light. And, it makes me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep, I thank you from the deepest part of my heart, that you are able to "see" through all these outer layers of "garbage" that I have accumulated over the years and still find that "inner light" that I foolishly lost sight of. I hope someday soon, I too will be able to perceive and fan that little flame again.

And I also thank you profoundly and sincerely, for in all your posts and words you have reminded me that the more I learn, the more I learn that I have much more to learn. It keeps me humble. I thank you.

You may not think it now, but a Plan B is not only an physical action, but a spiritual action. If you read posts about BS's going to Plan B you will see the change in their opinion about life. You are releasing yourself from the tremendous burden of a Plan A. You are moving on with your life with a hope that your WW will come to her senses.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Tell me something; what difference does it make for ME to be away from home with the possibility of hearing from or seeing my W for a few minutes here and there, and being in full Plan B?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is MB philosophy. I do not need to define the difference between Plan A and Plan B. Do I?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And secondly, my W already thinks everything bad that happens or has happened to her is my fault, including her A, or that I've done it to hurt her. Now why would I go to Plan B on a sour note by refusing to fix her pc, and give her yet another (this time maybe valid) reason to say things like that?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She already has a sour taste in her mouth. If you think fixing her computer is going to take the sour taste out of her mouth, go ahead and do it. How long have you been doing Plan A (and a good job at it too)? 11 months right? So how much of an affect will the computer fix have?

Sooner or later she is going to have to live on her own to know what she is missing. So if her computer broke down and you were already in Plan B, you would go over and fix it. Would she not get a sour taste in her mouth then if you did not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I respect your position, and it makes sense, but remember, this is about me not about her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Respectfully, I disagree. It is all about her and all about you. Plan B does have dual purposes. One great asset you had to give her was your ability to fix stuff. You would jump start your Plan B with her seeing what she is missing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems to me that rushing into full Plan B now only has a real effect on her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said earlier, Plan B is also spirtual. You get it or you don't. I hope you get it, or you are in a world of hurt. Let her go space. You have to lose her to save her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It really does nothing significant for me. And it gives my W more ammunition to harden her posture.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your WW needs no more ammunition. She is stocked. Her posture has been hardened and 11 months of pain and great Plan A did nothing to change it. IMHO: The problem in your M has nothing to do now about the A now, but all to do about her perception about you. Her perception has been clouded by the A and by years of typical marital conflicts. One tiny insignificant computer repair will not change anything, but will decrease the impact to her of your Plan B.

All in all, do what you feel is right, but do not think that fixing her computer will have any positive affect for you. It is just one more act of kindness in the 11 months of kindness.

DL:

Wuhl, yeah. But so what?

SC ain't in plan B. He's in remote plan A. I wasn't in plan B, I was in not-so-remote plan A. Until he's really in plan B, he's just gotten himself out to think a bit.

Where's J.R.? He took like forever to get into plan B, right?

BTW: About your WW (IMHO):

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

DL:

reminds me of one I heard. "You can lead a horse to water, but a plumb bob must be lead."

He knows that he can't educate his W. He's just struggling with just how low his $LB was when he blew the scene last week. Thank goodness he's got SH's help in this difficult time.

2Long,

Good points. I just always opt for the one with the least amount of pain for the BS and the quickest recovery (individually that is). The more the Plan B stings the WS the quicker the chance for recovery (IMHO).

Why opt to put SC through any more pain if it is uneccessary.

Now, now, let's stop the bickering, boys.

While everyone's opinions are always welcome, and always considered, in the end it is the one involved who must make the final call. Even when the opinion comes from Steve.

That being said, I believe I have made a huge effort up to now, and made many sacrifices, some good decisions and some bad ones, but as I prepare to implement a full Plan B (as it looks pretty inevitable right now), I choose to not rush into it, and I choose to not end my Plan A/Semi-B on a sour note, and I choose to fix my W's pc if she asks me again.

I have my reasons, which I have tried to explain but perhaps did not do a very good job at, so we'll leave it at that.

I believe that the high road is always the best, even if we live in a world that appears to have left those with morals and ideals behind, and appears to favor those who are more opportunistic or savvy or agressive or immoral. Regardless, I still have a fundamental belief in the goodness of mankind, and the belief that being able to hold my head high is more important than having money in my pocket; not the least of which is the example my children will see.

So, I will fix her pc if she so asks me, because I think she will remember that more and with more longing, than if I were to "punish" her as I finally close the door behind me. At least this way, as she interprets my Plan B letter as punishment, she will also have the slight doubt about reaching that conclusion when she thinks of the last few things I did for her, willingly, and with love. Among them, her working pc.

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

You go, SC!

Don't worry too much about us bickerers in the peanut gallery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>
I choose to not rush into it, and I choose to not end my Plan A/Semi-B on a sour note, and I choose to fix my W's pc if she asks me again.

I believe that the high road is always the best, even if we live in a world that appears to have left those with morals and ideals behind, and appears to favor those who are more opportunistic or savvy or agressive or immoral. Regardless, I still have a fundamental belief in the goodness of mankind, and the belief that being able to hold my head high is more important than having money in my pocket; not the least of which is the example my children will see.

So, I will fix her pc if she so asks me, because I think she will remember that more and with more longing, than if I were to "punish" her as I finally close the door behind me. At least this way, as she interprets my Plan B letter as punishment, she will also have the slight doubt about reaching that conclusion when she thinks of the last few things I did for her, willingly, and with love. Among them, her working pc.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Space, I agree with your position on this. I like what JL had to say about taking the opportunity to make deposits in LB while you're home fixing the computer! Great opportunity.

Also since you have an appt with SH on Monday, you should definitely wait until speaking with him before Plan B. There is absolutely no need to rush it before then IMHO!! CSue

Thanks for your support CSue.

I never imagined I would be faced with such seemingly impossible challenges, nor did I ever imagine one could have some of the feelings I have had lately.

Nobody should be subjected to this, ever!

Space, as you know "feelings just are"!
It's the behavior choices we make as a result of those feelings that impact those we care about the most.

The choices you have been making have been so wise. What a role model you are for your children. What an example of a loving husband you have been to your W.

No matter what the outcome, you are a better person as a result of what you've learned...and such an inspiration to all of us!! CSue

Spacecase,

I don't think that I will add any more (lol...at least not many more) opinions at this point...most of what I feel/think has already been stated much more eloquently by other folks. I just wanted to take a few minutes to let you know how much I admire you as a person...

I am the WW....sometimes..just reading your posts makes my heart ache terribly...not just for your situation..but also for all BS's..and yes, all WS's, too.

I am glad you decided to go ahead and work on her PC again. I am guilty of getting wrapped up in the "why in the world should I do one more thing for someone who has/is treating me this way.." thinking process and I have to remind myself that the reason I go ahead an go the extra mile again and again is that as a Christian I am called to do so...even when I wasn't a Christian..I used to do this. This isn't about setting boundaries...(I think setting boundaries is fine when it is done appropriately..and yes, with some warning as to what and why)...it's about what my heart calls me to do.

Hehe..I see I lied to you about not offering any more opinions...sigh...I'm sorry, I tend to be a 'fixer'..I guess that is why I work with computers.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well, just wanted you to know what an incredible person I think you are! I pray you are able to find some peace amidst the storm.

Best Regards,

YellowRose

Geez...out working for a day and look what happens, LOL!

Space, you really got it together well! I think your thinking is right on and you'll know when you haven't got any more to give. Your appt with Steve is Monday...which can seem like an eternity...but yet isnt' really. I hope he's able to help you come up with a consistant plan...I know this waffling is probably worse than an ineffective Plan A.

If you need any help with the PC, that's what I do for a living (and it sounds like YR does too!!) 2longs idea of the new one was hilarious!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Spacecase,
I think it's very inspiring that you are continuing to return bad with good.
BTW, I don't know if this is too out there or granola for you, but the kind of attitude Pepperband was talking about, focussing on yourself and worrying less about others, reminded me of the I Ching (Chinese book of changes.) I've been using it a lot the last few months. (There are lots of versions in the big bookstores.) Just in case you need an extra something till Monday.

2Long: Where's J.R.? He took like forever to get into plan B, right?

JR: Well it felt like forever, but it was "only" 9 months. That's less than SC, and half of Lor's 18 month Plan A!!

I had actually seriously considered Plan B at the 6 month mark - exactly "by the book" (SAA). But instead I did my OM confrontation at that time. After that I got curious, and that gave me a bit more energy... And the confrontation was such a huge LB, I wanted to really do a stellar ending to my Plan A - applying everything I could.

In hindsight, I wish I'd done 3 months of Plan A, starting d-day, confronted OM, then another 3 months of Plan A... then Plan B. But hindsight is 20-20. (In real hindsight, I wish we'd communicated better, not ignored our S's EN's, etc. - avoid the whole thing.)