Talked to Steve H this morning, I had also faxed him our recent email exchanges and my "take" on our talk the other night.

Steve really didn't take long to read it, actually was not surprised by it, said it was all definite babble.

From our talk, copied from previous thread, my conclusion from our talk: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WH just left, I feel awful. I'm sorry, I cant' remember the whole conversation and my response. He pretty much told me the following:

1. We did not have passion/romance in our marriage and were not compatible sexually, him and OW are.

2. He never felt comfortable around my family, he needs a strong family surrounding to be around. OW's family offers him this, however, he also told me that they don't know he is married.

3. He said that I could never have a relationship with his mother who told him our marriage was bad and he needs to be happy, she accepts OW in his life and does not see a future for our marriage.

4. His feelings for OW are strong, he is madly in love with her. He says these are not feelings of withdrawal that he is nothing like what they talk about in the books. He says this is different, he is really in love.

5. He told me that I needed to face reality instead of my "books" that some marriages just aren't meant to be.

6. Told me I was his "crutch" to him at his weakest moment when we decided to get married as I had a good income, and he was extremely in debt.

7. He said there is no chance for us if he still has OW in his mind or heart.

8. He said that you cannot make changes to change your marriage, you either have it or you don't.

9. He said that he never had feelings for me like he does her.

10. He said he "needs more time" to figure out what he wants.

11. Admitted to being scared because if he tried to recover our marriage he would lose her.

12. He said that his relationship with OW never felt "like an affair".

13. He said he has never cryed like he has in the past couple of weeks of missing OW, that he has a huge pain in his heart

14. He said that we were just content and comfortable with no excitement in our life.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Steve told me to back off, that WS's in withdrawal are like a drunk alcoholic, they cannot and will not listen to logic, anyone trying to give them logic will be seen as "teachers" and controlling.

So my answer to his fog babble should be simply, "Thank you for being honest with me", and not to elaborate on my position, especially since I know its babble, I have the knowledge.

Steve asked me if I had given him SAA, I said yes, but WH has not read it, but has read the Infedility articles, etc.

So Steve wants to take a shot at him. Told me to tell WH that I got Steve's POV on the situation, and I learned alot, not to push any further until WH has his other therapist appt.

After WH has his therapist appt, and next time I talk to WH, tell him that Steve has a plan to help us get through this, that this plan does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but will help both of us, etc, but that's it. I am to keep WH "guessing" at what Steve has to say, maybe to entice him. I am not to talk about Emotional Needs, Love Busters, etc. The "alcoholic" is not ready for it.

Now I had no idea what the "plan" was until near the end of the appt. Steve said a definite Plan A, detach some, don't try to teach, and don't set any boundaries yet, especially not until WH comes out of withdrawal (if he does). Steve also knows how difficult it will be since WH is not here.
Steve said that my "actions" should be more than my "words", if I don't know what to say about something, say "nothing". I need to show Plan A, not to convince by telling my husband I've had changes.

So I called WH a few minutes ago because he wanted to know how it went, conversation went similiar to this.

said our hellos.
WH: How did your therapy appt go?
Me: I went very well, I learned quite alot from Steve's perspective.
WH: Well, what did you learn?
Me: Just alot, I got his take on the situation.
WH: Well, what did he say?
Me: Just stuff.
WH: Like what?

I could see that WH seemed interested, so I threw a little crumb.

Me: He just helped me discover a little bit about myself, and how to reasses the situation.
WH: Like How?
Me: Well, he seems to have a plan to maybe help us to help us understand things a little better.
WH: what plan?
ME: Just some ideas, he has heard my perspective, and is interested in yours.
WH: We'll see, we can talk about that later.

so that was about it, I probably screwed up, I should have kept him guessing more, I guess.

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]</small>

going crazy - I am glad things went well - I don't think you screwed up with your husband you told him a little not a lot - and he didn't really freak so that is good - You must be feeling better - Now good luck with Plan A - I know that Plan is really tough - especially when something sets you off - but good luck !!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>Now good luck with Plan A - I know that Plan is really tough - especially when something sets you off - but good luck !!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks! I have to keep remembering to myself that I know more than he does, maybe appear a little mysterious about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but definitely not tell him anything

G_C,

sounds good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Have you read what I wrote in "Recovery"?

Maybe what I was telling you in my first response wasn't actually all that bad.
I planned A my butt off when my H was telling me all these strange things, I did it until his mind started to clear up.
I'm thinking about you and I hope you are feeling abit better. Gosh, I can feel what you are going through. But think, we are with you and we truely understand your pain. This might help a little bit, I hope. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
bb

GC -- I think you did just fine. You provided limited information that seemed be almost exactly what Steve suggested.

I know plan A from afar/with WH out of the house is hard. I do find that the more I back off, but still plan A when I do hear from WH, the more interested he seems in talking and spending time together. Makes no sense to me, but hey, the whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

You stay strong. I will be thinking of you -- my mom just called to tell me it was raining at the beach and would be all weekend. So, my weekend is probably going to be as follows: Run in the rain in the morning, play with my nieces and nephews/take them to movies, and eat bad food. No complaints here though -- those kids make me feel like I can do no wrong and they tell me several times a day how much they love me and they hug me. I really need that right now.

A big hug to you GC. I'll try and check in over the weekend.

GC,
Oh my goodness, I can't believe SH has you in Plan A again!! Gosh, I can hardly wait to talk to him next week.
I'm sure he'll have me in plan A for a while. What exactly does it take for SH to place someone in plan B? does anyone know, maybe Spacecase.
I think you did super in your conversation with your WH. And I do definitely think there is hope for your marriage.
Do you think one day we'll understand the babble thing??? It's such a mystery, isn't it?
God bless you, and I pray your plan A goes well.
Don't lb, okay, we have a pact.
WH came over last night, we watched a little tv, and talked some. I was very nice to him.
He still hasn't given me any money, though, the rat!!!!
I had to borrow from my parents again....
KK

That's classic Steve H!
Good for you, GC; that all sounds very familiar to me, and it's a good plan. Try to be strong and stick to it.

KK; there is ONLY one reason (well, 2) to go to Plan B; and that is when your Love Bank has run so low, that you need to remove yourself from the WS so as to not LB and not drain the Love Bank completely. (The only other reason is when there's a safety issue involved; violence, that kind of thing)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blondblossom:
<strong>Have you read what I wrote in "Recovery"?
Maybe what I was telling you in my first response wasn't actually all that bad.
I planned A my butt off when my H was telling me all these strange things, I did it until his mind started to clear up.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Blondblossom: Yes, I read it, and I think my problem was, I know my problem was, I started to educate him too soon, I pushed, and I should have known better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>I know plan A from afar/with WH out of the house is hard. I do find that the more I back off, but still plan A when I do hear from WH, the more interested he seems in talking and spending time together. Makes no sense to me, but hey, the whole thing doesn't make sense to me.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unsureheart: It is going to be tough, I don't know how to do it, I hate letting him initiate the contact because I'm scared that he will forget about me, I'm sure OW is during her own plan A herself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kk2002:
<strong>I can't believe SH has you in Plan A again!!

What exactly does it take for SH to place someone in plan B?

Do you think one day we'll understand the babble thing</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KK: I kinda had a feeling he would, he also told me that Plan B is very dangerous with no kids involved. I don't think we can ever understand the babble from the truth!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>That's classic Steve H!
Good for you, GC; that all sounds very familiar to me, and it's a good plan. Try to be strong and stick to it.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Spacecase: It's going to be tough, especially if he's not here, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> to win him back with actions, theres just so much you can do over the phone or email

well, WH should be sitting with his therapist as I speak.
I did call him him to verify insurance, since we are on an EPO program that requires a referral from the PCP.
He told me not to worry about as his mom is going to pay it no matter what.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well...WH called me at 3:45, his appt was at 3:00, told me that the therapist had double booked and he won't be going until next Wednesday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
So, it could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what the therapist was to do.

It sucks here, though, since we had made plans last weekend to spend the weekend together with his grandmother and all. He called that off because he doesn't want to hurt his grandmother (she is the only one of his family to keep any contact with me, wants to see us back together). He had already told his grandmother he was moving back, so,, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> So looks like I'll be busy around the house doing something, hoping he will call but trying my hardest not to call him.

GC - I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. I don't know if this helps....I am a WS...and I know it is going to be so hard to do Plan A with him not being there...but I really think sometimes...when it gets to the point where your M is at...that a WS getting to spend time with an OP (when a WS is so resistant to letting a BS back into their lives...I am in NO WAY saying it is best for a WS to be a cake-eater...or to encourage them to be with the OP)may not always be a terrible thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 10. He said he "needs more time" to figure out what he wants.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Obviously your H has enough doubts buried somewhere in that fog-locked brain of his! If OW is so perfect...so wonderful..if what he feels is so very REAL...then why hasn't he divorced you by now? C'mon...if he were so sure..it would have been over by now...one way or another.

Don't worry overly much about not being able to Plan A if he is not there...be ready to do it when you have the opportunity..and let the OW hang their relationship herself....as we have all read...almost all A's die a natural death...the odds are completely against them. We just need to keep you in good shape..to take advantage of it if you still choose to..that is the risk your H is running.

You sound like a lovely woman...we are pulling for you!

Don't call him...do like us WS's (ones trying to recover, that is) do when we feel the urge to call the OP...post here. I really feel like you trying to contact him on the 'heels of all this emotion' may seem pushy...and he might feel even more suffocated. Remember..he is going to be feeling a ton of guilt over the recent "I'm moving back" stunt...but like almost all WS's..he will try and shift this guilt off on you..and will get angry. It is a no-win situation to contact him this weekend..in my honest opinion.

Show him what a classy lady you are...keep your dignity...hold your head up high! To me..having grace, class, and poise under the worst of times..is the true mark of an extraordinary individual...which you are. Do you have any pals to go out with? Keep busy...don't stay home..don't be 'available' if he calls this weekend. WS's....heck, many people in general seem to want what they don't have..and what is not readily available. Be mysterious..show him you can have a life without him....get a new perfume...mix things up some...this will do you a world of good. If you don't have any friends close by...go make some!

There is a whole world out there..don't let it pass you by...don't grieve in your house..take your hurting heart...and try to occupy the time...go help another (if you can't find something else to do)...which serves to help you!

Texas Hugs to You!

YR

GC,

Good to hear about your session with Steve. Just a suggestion, then I gotta run...... You were good with the crumbs. Since he is still in lala land, don't tell him Steve wants to talk about the M,maybe more like Steve wants to get his thoughts in general, maybe even how to help you heal. Make the WS think they are going to be doing you a favor. Not sure why it has to be that way but then again, in the fog nothing is rational. Makes some WS' do the strut thinking they are all of a sudden having an important opinion or something. May work. Maybe this is a better ploy on the H's or just anyone with a high ego.

Then let Steve do what he does best.

JHMO,
L.

GC...

Just checkin to see how you are doing today....I hope you are out having fun somewhere and that is why you are not 'here'...

Wanted you to know we were thinking about you.

Regards,

YR

Not good here, majorly depressed <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I talked to WH yesterday, he now says he wants a divorce, ASAP. That he wanted to get away from the situation and the OW and realized he cannot live without her. That he loves her and does not love me, only loved the surroundings around me (pets, the house, material things). He said that the OW gives him passion in his life and he and I were just content and comfortable. He said that his heart belongs to her.

So, I asked him, why did you move all of your things back, why did you tell me you were coming home?
He said that OW told him to move out and get his act together because he was not pursueing a divorce.

He was very hurtful to me, said that I should not have waited for him all this time, that I need to move on with my life, when last week he was thankful that I had, and was wanted our marriage.

So here it is, last week at this time, he was telling me how much he loved me, how sorry he was, how he wanted our marriage to work, and now this, he wants a divorce ASAP. He said he is going to file this week. He said that if I try to delay it or fight him on anything that he will get mean.

I am in so much pain right now, I feel like I did right after D-Day, all I do is lay around and do nothing, I have no energy, I want to sleep all the time, just to keep me from thinking. I didn't make plans for the weekend because we were supposed to spend the weekend together, all of my friends are out of town.

What am I supposed to do know, how am I supposed to Plan A? He said that the only contact he wants with me now is getting the house ready to sell, or the divorce.

He told me that the changes I have made should have been for me and not for him. I told him that they were for me, they make me feel better and more comfortable as a wife, that I want to be a better wife, I never had a role model for my parents, they are divorced.

He is so convinced that our marriage will never work, he said that you cannot change marriages to work, they either do or they don't.

I am just so depressed right now. Please, I need prayers right now. I don't even have enough energy to get ready for church. I feel like I just want to crawl in a hole and die. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Go to church.

((( HUGS )))

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I went through this stage, but it only lasted about 3 months. I slept around and cried in bed for about 2-3 weeks. I was a Jehovah's Witness then, and church was my support and my crutch. Go to church; be with His people; lean on Him.

I would let him go. Let go of the hope because the nagging hope will hurt you each time it is going to be fustrated from now on. He was trying to do the right thing; he came back to you for one last try. Now he is being brutally honest. If I were you, now is the right time to go into plan B, let him have the taste of divorce before he actually gets it.

- Relate

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

I still think he needs plan a with distance.. NO PUSHING that is.. but kind and loving behavior from you during his time of turmoil... that will draw him your way.

Hugs, HONEY

I didn't go to church, I was supposed to go with my neighbors, but they called and told me they weren't going, I ended up watching a service on TV and have been up on the Restore Ministries website ordering more books. Thanks Honey, for leading me to that site. I know that I just have to Let Go and Let God, I can't change my husband, as much as I want to and as much as it hurts right now. I am dying so much inside my heart, it is so painful. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> GC, I am so sorry for the pain you are going through. This is the worst roller coaster ride we could ever imagine! The downward tracks are simply unbearable! My heart breaks for you GC. Your H sounds like he doesn't know which way to turn. When is he supposed to see the C?

I know it is not easy, but try to keep busy. Is there someone you could call to go to a movie or go shopping with?

"let go and let God"...no better words spoken. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
BH

he is supposed to see his counselor on Wednesday, but I don't think shes a marriage counselor.

Still crying here... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />