Definite Fog Babble, back to Plan A, SH's advice, WH now wants divorce ASAP

Talked to Steve H this morning, I had also faxed him our recent email exchanges and my "take" on our talk the other night.

Steve really didn't take long to read it, actually was not surprised by it, said it was all definite babble.

From our talk, copied from previous thread, my conclusion from our talk: <blockquote>quote:<hr /> WH just left, I feel awful. I'm sorry, I cant' remember the whole conversation and my response. He pretty much told me the following:

1. We did not have passion/romance in our marriage and were not compatible sexually, him and OW are.

2. He never felt comfortable around my family, he needs a strong family surrounding to be around. OW's family offers him this, however, he also told me that they don't know he is married.

3. He said that I could never have a relationship with his mother who told him our marriage was bad and he needs to be happy, she accepts OW in his life and does not see a future for our marriage.

4. His feelings for OW are strong, he is madly in love with her. He says these are not feelings of withdrawal that he is nothing like what they talk about in the books. He says this is different, he is really in love.

5. He told me that I needed to face reality instead of my "books" that some marriages just aren't meant to be.

6. Told me I was his "crutch" to him at his weakest moment when we decided to get married as I had a good income, and he was extremely in debt.

7. He said there is no chance for us if he still has OW in his mind or heart.

8. He said that you cannot make changes to change your marriage, you either have it or you don't.

9. He said that he never had feelings for me like he does her.

10. He said he "needs more time" to figure out what he wants.

11. Admitted to being scared because if he tried to recover our marriage he would lose her.

12. He said that his relationship with OW never felt "like an affair".

13. He said he has never cryed like he has in the past couple of weeks of missing OW, that he has a huge pain in his heart

14. He said that we were just content and comfortable with no excitement in our life.
<hr /></blockquote>Steve told me to back off, that WS's in withdrawal are like a drunk alcoholic, they cannot and will not listen to logic, anyone trying to give them logic will be seen as "teachers" and controlling.

So my answer to his fog babble should be simply, "Thank you for being honest with me", and not to elaborate on my position, especially since I know its babble, I have the knowledge.

Steve asked me if I had given him SAA, I said yes, but WH has not read it, but has read the Infedility articles, etc.

So Steve wants to take a shot at him. Told me to tell WH that I got Steve's POV on the situation, and I learned alot, not to push any further until WH has his other therapist appt.

After WH has his therapist appt, and next time I talk to WH, tell him that Steve has a plan to help us get through this, that this plan does not necessarily mean reconciliation, but will help both of us, etc, but that's it. I am to keep WH "guessing" at what Steve has to say, maybe to entice him. I am not to talk about Emotional Needs, Love Busters, etc. The "alcoholic" is not ready for it.

Now I had no idea what the "plan" was until near the end of the appt. Steve said a definite Plan A, detach some, don't try to teach, and don't set any boundaries yet, especially not until WH comes out of withdrawal (if he does). Steve also knows how difficult it will be since WH is not here.
Steve said that my "actions" should be more than my "words", if I don't know what to say about something, say "nothing". I need to show Plan A, not to convince by telling my husband I've had changes.

So I called WH a few minutes ago because he wanted to know how it went, conversation went similiar to this.

said our hellos.
WH: How did your therapy appt go?
Me: I went very well, I learned quite alot from Steve's perspective.
WH: Well, what did you learn?
Me: Just alot, I got his take on the situation.
WH: Well, what did he say?
Me: Just stuff.
WH: Like what?

I could see that WH seemed interested, so I threw a little crumb.

Me: He just helped me discover a little bit about myself, and how to reasses the situation.
WH: Like How?
Me: Well, he seems to have a plan to maybe help us to help us understand things a little better.
WH: what plan?
ME: Just some ideas, he has heard my perspective, and is interested in yours.
WH: We'll see, we can talk about that later.

so that was about it, I probably screwed up, I should have kept him guessing more, I guess.

[ September 01, 2002, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]

going crazy - I am glad things went well - I don't think you screwed up with your husband you told him a little not a lot - and he didn't really freak so that is good - You must be feeling better - Now good luck with Plan A - I know that Plan is really tough - especially when something sets you off - but good luck !!!!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maw64:
Now good luck with Plan A - I know that Plan is really tough - especially when something sets you off - but good luck !!!!<hr /></blockquote>thanks! I have to keep remembering to myself that I know more than he does, maybe appear a little mysterious about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but definitely not tell him anything

G_C,

sounds good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Have you read what I wrote in "Recovery"?

Maybe what I was telling you in my first response wasn't actually all that bad.
I planned A my butt off when my H was telling me all these strange things, I did it until his mind started to clear up.
I'm thinking about you and I hope you are feeling abit better. Gosh, I can feel what you are going through. But think, we are with you and we truely understand your pain. This might help a little bit, I hope. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
bb

GC -- I think you did just fine. You provided limited information that seemed be almost exactly what Steve suggested.

I know plan A from afar/with WH out of the house is hard. I do find that the more I back off, but still plan A when I do hear from WH, the more interested he seems in talking and spending time together. Makes no sense to me, but hey, the whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

You stay strong. I will be thinking of you -- my mom just called to tell me it was raining at the beach and would be all weekend. So, my weekend is probably going to be as follows: Run in the rain in the morning, play with my nieces and nephews/take them to movies, and eat bad food. No complaints here though -- those kids make me feel like I can do no wrong and they tell me several times a day how much they love me and they hug me. I really need that right now.

A big hug to you GC. I'll try and check in over the weekend.

GC,
Oh my goodness, I can't believe SH has you in Plan A again!! Gosh, I can hardly wait to talk to him next week.
I'm sure he'll have me in plan A for a while. What exactly does it take for SH to place someone in plan B? does anyone know, maybe Spacecase.
I think you did super in your conversation with your WH. And I do definitely think there is hope for your marriage.
Do you think one day we'll understand the babble thing??? It's such a mystery, isn't it?
God bless you, and I pray your plan A goes well.
Don't lb, okay, we have a pact.
WH came over last night, we watched a little tv, and talked some. I was very nice to him.
He still hasn't given me any money, though, the rat!!!!
I had to borrow from my parents again....
KK

That's classic Steve H!
Good for you, GC; that all sounds very familiar to me, and it's a good plan. Try to be strong and stick to it.

KK; there is ONLY one reason (well, 2) to go to Plan B; and that is when your Love Bank has run so low, that you need to remove yourself from the WS so as to not LB and not drain the Love Bank completely. (The only other reason is when there's a safety issue involved; violence, that kind of thing)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by blondblossom:
Have you read what I wrote in "Recovery"?
Maybe what I was telling you in my first response wasn't actually all that bad.
I planned A my butt off when my H was telling me all these strange things, I did it until his mind started to clear up.
<hr /></blockquote>Blondblossom: Yes, I read it, and I think my problem was, I know my problem was, I started to educate him too soon, I pushed, and I should have known better.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by unsureheart:
I know plan A from afar/with WH out of the house is hard. I do find that the more I back off, but still plan A when I do hear from WH, the more interested he seems in talking and spending time together. Makes no sense to me, but hey, the whole thing doesn't make sense to me.
<hr /></blockquote>Unsureheart: It is going to be tough, I don't know how to do it, I hate letting him initiate the contact because I'm scared that he will forget about me, I'm sure OW is during her own plan A herself.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kk2002:
I can't believe SH has you in Plan A again!!

What exactly does it take for SH to place someone in plan B?

Do you think one day we'll understand the babble thing<hr /></blockquote>KK: I kinda had a feeling he would, he also told me that Plan B is very dangerous with no kids involved. I don't think we can ever understand the babble from the truth!!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spacecase:
That's classic Steve H!
Good for you, GC; that all sounds very familiar to me, and it's a good plan. Try to be strong and stick to it.
<hr /></blockquote>Spacecase: It's going to be tough, especially if he's not here, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> to win him back with actions, theres just so much you can do over the phone or email

well, WH should be sitting with his therapist as I speak.
I did call him him to verify insurance, since we are on an EPO program that requires a referral from the PCP.
He told me not to worry about as his mom is going to pay it no matter what.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well...WH called me at 3:45, his appt was at 3:00, told me that the therapist had double booked and he won't be going until next Wednesday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
So, it could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what the therapist was to do.

It sucks here, though, since we had made plans last weekend to spend the weekend together with his grandmother and all. He called that off because he doesn't want to hurt his grandmother (she is the only one of his family to keep any contact with me, wants to see us back together). He had already told his grandmother he was moving back, so,, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> So looks like I'll be busy around the house doing something, hoping he will call but trying my hardest not to call him.

GC - I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. I don't know if this helps....I am a WS...and I know it is going to be so hard to do Plan A with him not being there...but I really think sometimes...when it gets to the point where your M is at...that a WS getting to spend time with an OP (when a WS is so resistant to letting a BS back into their lives...I am in NO WAY saying it is best for a WS to be a cake-eater...or to encourage them to be with the OP)may not always be a terrible thing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> 10. He said he "needs more time" to figure out what he wants.
<hr /></blockquote>Obviously your H has enough doubts buried somewhere in that fog-locked brain of his! If OW is so perfect...so wonderful..if what he feels is so very REAL...then why hasn't he divorced you by now? C'mon...if he were so sure..it would have been over by now...one way or another.

Don't worry overly much about not being able to Plan A if he is not there...be ready to do it when you have the opportunity..and let the OW hang their relationship herself....as we have all read...almost all A's die a natural death...the odds are completely against them. We just need to keep you in good shape..to take advantage of it if you still choose to..that is the risk your H is running.

You sound like a lovely woman...we are pulling for you!

Don't call him...do like us WS's (ones trying to recover, that is) do when we feel the urge to call the OP...post here. I really feel like you trying to contact him on the 'heels of all this emotion' may seem pushy...and he might feel even more suffocated. Remember..he is going to be feeling a ton of guilt over the recent "I'm moving back" stunt...but like almost all WS's..he will try and shift this guilt off on you..and will get angry. It is a no-win situation to contact him this weekend..in my honest opinion.

Show him what a classy lady you are...keep your dignity...hold your head up high! To me..having grace, class, and poise under the worst of times..is the true mark of an extraordinary individual...which you are. Do you have any pals to go out with? Keep busy...don't stay home..don't be 'available' if he calls this weekend. WS's....heck, many people in general seem to want what they don't have..and what is not readily available. Be mysterious..show him you can have a life without him....get a new perfume...mix things up some...this will do you a world of good. If you don't have any friends close by...go make some!

There is a whole world out there..don't let it pass you by...don't grieve in your house..take your hurting heart...and try to occupy the time...go help another (if you can't find something else to do)...which serves to help you!

Texas Hugs to You!

YR

GC,

Good to hear about your session with Steve. Just a suggestion, then I gotta run...... You were good with the crumbs. Since he is still in lala land, don't tell him Steve wants to talk about the M,maybe more like Steve wants to get his thoughts in general, maybe even how to help you heal. Make the WS think they are going to be doing you a favor. Not sure why it has to be that way but then again, in the fog nothing is rational. Makes some WS' do the strut thinking they are all of a sudden having an important opinion or something. May work. Maybe this is a better ploy on the H's or just anyone with a high ego.

Then let Steve do what he does best.

JHMO,
L.

GC...

Just checkin to see how you are doing today....I hope you are out having fun somewhere and that is why you are not 'here'...

Wanted you to know we were thinking about you.

Regards,

YR

Not good here, majorly depressed <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I talked to WH yesterday, he now says he wants a divorce, ASAP. That he wanted to get away from the situation and the OW and realized he cannot live without her. That he loves her and does not love me, only loved the surroundings around me (pets, the house, material things). He said that the OW gives him passion in his life and he and I were just content and comfortable. He said that his heart belongs to her.

So, I asked him, why did you move all of your things back, why did you tell me you were coming home?
He said that OW told him to move out and get his act together because he was not pursueing a divorce.

He was very hurtful to me, said that I should not have waited for him all this time, that I need to move on with my life, when last week he was thankful that I had, and was wanted our marriage.

So here it is, last week at this time, he was telling me how much he loved me, how sorry he was, how he wanted our marriage to work, and now this, he wants a divorce ASAP. He said he is going to file this week. He said that if I try to delay it or fight him on anything that he will get mean.

I am in so much pain right now, I feel like I did right after D-Day, all I do is lay around and do nothing, I have no energy, I want to sleep all the time, just to keep me from thinking. I didn't make plans for the weekend because we were supposed to spend the weekend together, all of my friends are out of town.

What am I supposed to do know, how am I supposed to Plan A? He said that the only contact he wants with me now is getting the house ready to sell, or the divorce.

He told me that the changes I have made should have been for me and not for him. I told him that they were for me, they make me feel better and more comfortable as a wife, that I want to be a better wife, I never had a role model for my parents, they are divorced.

He is so convinced that our marriage will never work, he said that you cannot change marriages to work, they either do or they don't.

I am just so depressed right now. Please, I need prayers right now. I don't even have enough energy to get ready for church. I feel like I just want to crawl in a hole and die. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Go to church.

((( HUGS )))

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I went through this stage, but it only lasted about 3 months. I slept around and cried in bed for about 2-3 weeks. I was a Jehovah's Witness then, and church was my support and my crutch. Go to church; be with His people; lean on Him.

I would let him go. Let go of the hope because the nagging hope will hurt you each time it is going to be fustrated from now on. He was trying to do the right thing; he came back to you for one last try. Now he is being brutally honest. If I were you, now is the right time to go into plan B, let him have the taste of divorce before he actually gets it.

- Relate

[ September 01, 2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: relate ]

I still think he needs plan a with distance.. NO PUSHING that is.. but kind and loving behavior from you during his time of turmoil... that will draw him your way.

Hugs, HONEY

I didn't go to church, I was supposed to go with my neighbors, but they called and told me they weren't going, I ended up watching a service on TV and have been up on the Restore Ministries website ordering more books. Thanks Honey, for leading me to that site. I know that I just have to Let Go and Let God, I can't change my husband, as much as I want to and as much as it hurts right now. I am dying so much inside my heart, it is so painful. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> GC, I am so sorry for the pain you are going through. This is the worst roller coaster ride we could ever imagine! The downward tracks are simply unbearable! My heart breaks for you GC. Your H sounds like he doesn't know which way to turn. When is he supposed to see the C?

I know it is not easy, but try to keep busy. Is there someone you could call to go to a movie or go shopping with?

"let go and let God"...no better words spoken. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
BH

he is supposed to see his counselor on Wednesday, but I don't think shes a marriage counselor.

Still crying here... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

going_crazy...

No more relationship talks w/ H. No more questions about 'why' he did or said xyz...

H is right about CHANGES... they must be for YOU to really be effective... what you do must be about you and for you...

Listen to Steve. He is the most experienced at this... but mostly... lean on God... give Him YOU... YOUR H and YOUR MARRIAGE...

then just ride the rollercoaster... detach... detach... detach... as you detach... as you quit asking him questions... as you begin to 'hold yourself together' you will create change between you...

You must stop GOING to him... and allow him to GO to you... no more pursuing... 'cause he will run far and hard...

Have you read lostva's story? She plan A'd for a year or more while she and her H had no face-to-face contact and he lived w/ OW.

Good luck,
Cali

can I please cry a river with you, that is what ws say s to me>>>. met me at astros game , spoke 2 words to me and wanted to take OUR children and leave and he did.. NOW i am alone... ok, he wants this... sily man.. oikk, whatever.. I am basd typist , ritht? ok? hlep ... ok bye for now... I care about you, I am sorry you are her in this trech with me. Honey.

going_crazy...

I am new to your story, but I feel for you. I'm so sorry for all your pain.

Cali is right, you must have no more R talks with him. If you read your first post of this thread, and then the last one you wrote, you will see that he's still saying ALL the same things!! Hun, he's still in a major FOG!!!

Ignore his comments, get busy living YOUR life, and let him have what he THINKS he wants!!!

Remember the stats. His future R with "wonderful" OP cannot possibly last!! The stats are against it! I hope this makes you feel better. It always did me!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you don't go to church, then at least read His Word, and let Him speak to you that way. He does care for you, and He loves you totally, UNconditionally! Our wonderful Lord wants to fix this. Please wait for His timing and His Miracle in your life.

God Bless,

Dear G_C,

I am so sorry for you. I've even got tears thinking of the pain you are going through. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Let me pat you on the shoulder and give you a hug.
You have gotten so much advice from many others, so much has been said. I guess nothing is really making you feel better. Life can really be a drag a times. But no matter what, we do fall so deep at times only to recover and get up and move on.
There are times in our life when we feel that it can't get worse. But have trust in yourself no matter what happens.
TRUST YOURSELF, you will make it no matter what. Many have written their experiences, many times I have had tears in my eyes when I was reading. At times I felt hopeless, I felt so lonely, misunderstood and mostly I felt unloved.

I know that my story is different and I know that we managed to make things work out. At one time when my H was in the "fog" I remember I told him very calm and I was honestly serious. I told him:
"My dear ....., I have always loved you, I have always looked at you as the man that I wanted to grow old with and I have always wanted you to be happy. "
Yes, no matter what mistakes I made, I truely wanted you to be happy. I still want you to be happy and I want you to live the life that you have wished. If I have to let you go and let you live your life without me, if this is what you want and if this is what it takes to make you happy, then I will let you go. The years that we shared were precious and I have learned alot from you. You will always have a special place within my heart and I'd like to thank you for the wonderful years we shared together. They meant so much to me and they were unique. I wish you to be happy and I wish that your dreams will come true. Forget the years with me and move on. I don't want you to suffer and I don't want you to think bad of our past, I want you to feel your best and I wish that you will be able to move on and become the great man that you once were and that I know you are.

G_C, I told this to my H and I was serious about it. I would of let him go. I wasn't angry, no I meant every word that I told him. I just wanted him to make a decision and I didn't want him to make an decision that he might regret. I wanted to let him know that he could really go if he wanted to and it would be safe for him. These were the most difficult words I have ever said. It really "broke my heart" and yet I knew I would manage, no matter what.
I would of survived even though I truely didn't know how.
I have No Family here, no one that supports me. I am in a foreign country. The only family I have is my H family. I have worked in our own company my whole life, I have never done other than that. And yet I knew I would survive.
I even wanted to go back to the country that I was born. (Canada) All relatives are strangers, I don't know a soul but I would of done it and I know I would of made it!!

I don't know if this would change anything in your case but try to see the positive. You might have close friends, relatives, sisters and brothers that will support you and comfort you. The best of all, you have support from SH.
Please try to see the positive sides, no matter what. You are living, you are healthy, you are strong!!!!!!!!!!!!You know what you want. You might not be getting what you want now, but you know what is important for your life. Honesty, love, understanding. You have learned not to give up on a person that has lost his prespective in life. You were able to proove that you are a great person.
Even though you H might not realize this now, he will, believe me!!! There will come a time in life when he will truely think about himself differently and ask himself what was going through his mind. It's just a matter of when. Try to let him go and find this out for himself. Do it in a soft and understanding way.
He is weak and must learn alot in life. You might not be in the best position of life, now. I can truely feel the pain and confusion you are going through, but believe me, you are capable of things that you never would of believed. Once you learn to let go without expecting and going on with life, you too might be asking yourself the some questions. "What was going on in my mind?" What was I afraid of? Why did I want this marriage, no matter what??

I think that we BS also go through a stage of "fog". The shock is so big for us and it hurts so bad, how couldn't we also go through a foggy stage??? This really takes time and going through the different stages of emotions is overwhelming, when I think back.
But it does get better just have trust in yourself.

G_C, move on and treat yourself the best. Who knows what this will bring. And remember:
"When one door closes, another will open."

bb

GC just wait a bit and see what happens. Do not do anything to help this dv along, if it happens, and keep getting advice from SH. Do not do anything until you have consulted with him.

your H is in major fog right now. He has got scared and is lashing out at you. Hopefully he will not do anything rash, but this cannot be guaranteed, obviously.

OW is making selfish demands and having angry outburst, you know what these are - love busters, major ones. Things are not rosy in paradise, so bide your time.

Can I make a suggestion? Go and do something that you like to do, it dosen't have to cost much or it can cost a fortune, it could take 10 minutes or all day, but please GC, start doing things that you like to do, this will give you some energy and take your focus off this horrible situation for a while. You will see things a little more clearly.

I know you don't feel like it but force yourself. I have been there, we all have and once you start, you will see what I mean. Look, somedays the last thing I want to do is wake up let alone go horseriding or meet with people, somedays I feel like driving my car into a brick wall, but I force myself on in 5 minute increments when I feel that way. We can all get through five minutes at a time, OK? Fun, gotta force ourself and know we are worth it.

Then sit down and make a list of what you need to do in case he does file for dv. I hope it dosen't happen and I somehow just don't think it will, but you need to be prepared GC, as unpleasant as it all is, you have to protect yourself, the mothership is in control.

Good luck and God bless

G_C,

my thoughts are with you. Please have trust in yourself.
I can feel the "hurt" and the deep pain that you are going through right now. Gosh I wish I could help you through this.
But this might help you a "tiny" bit just knowing that you are not all alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Please take care of yourself..................

hugs
bb

(((((((((gc))))))))))

GC, ditto what Cali said! Your hubby is a classic case...reguardless of what he thinks. All the things he spew from his mouth are moreso to convince HIMSELF than you. Detach!! Don't take it personally!! Do what you can to work on yourself and your life, and let him build his sand castle. The big wave of reality will bring it crashing down before too long.

Going Crazy - Oh my gosh I hadn't checked in all weekend and I cannot believe the pain you are in - I thought you were heading for an upswing - but you know I have been and are where you are now - My husband went to therapy for one session and he didn't want any part of it - he didn't think that there was anything wrong with him - go figure huh??? I know that no one can tell you what to do but you have to get yourself back up - this is not your fault and you cannot change what he is doing - I basically think my husband has lost his mind but to talk to him you would think that he is the victim in all of this - I guess what I am trying to say is that there comes a time when we have to decide do we want to do this anymore - do we want to deal with all of this pain??? Should I just let it go and stop fighting and see what happens??? As you know I am getting a divorce - why I don't know - it is like he wants it and I just finally said you know what ok - I hope someday he sees the light and realizes that he made a mistake but you know what if he doesn't then its ok I am going to be ok... You are a person who does not deserve this pain. You do not deserve this constant roller coaster ride... You sound like you are falling into a deep depression - Have you been to your doctor - are you on antidepressants?? I will tell I was never one for them but I went to therapy for a few months and he told you know you are dealing with something tragic and each day it is something new you need medication to help you process this pain... I cried from October until June when I went on them... I hope you are doing better today I see you haven't posted please give an update - I will be praying for you....

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cali:
You must stop GOING to him... and allow him to GO to you... no more pursuing... 'cause he will run far and hard...

Have you read lostva's story? She plan A'd for a year or more while she and her H had no face-to-face contact and he lived w/ OW<hr /></blockquote>Cali, thanks, I realize that I pushed too hard when he came around, I really think I scared him off this time.
I went ahead and found Lostva's story, it is going to be difficult.

I should be thankful that he moved out of the OW's house. But I'm scared it will make their fantasy seem more real, they will most likely being seeing each other on weekends for their stolent moments for each other. I feel like I don't have a chance.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lupolady:
 Remember the stats. His future R with "wonderful" OP cannot possibly last!! The stats are against it! I hope this makes you feel better. It always did me!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you don't go to church, then at least read His Word, and let Him speak to you that way. He does care for you, and He loves you totally, UNconditionally! Our wonderful Lord wants to fix this. Please wait for His timing and His Miracle in your life.<hr /></blockquote>Right now, my WH thinks that they are part of the 5% statatistic that affairs due survive, he has done such a 180 on me, just when I though the knife was out of my heart, it got jammed back in there and twisted alot more.
Right now, I am trying my best just to Let Go and Let God take care of the situation. It is hard to faith when you don't know where your life is heading, especially when I have been on this roller coaster for 19 months now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by blondblossom:
I am so sorry for you. I've even got tears thinking of the pain you are going through. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Let me pat you on the shoulder and give you a hug.

And remember:
"When one door closes, another will open."

bb<hr /></blockquote>Blondblossom: As always, your posts touch my hear so much, I thank you for sticking with me and letting me know such vulnerable parts of your life. Thank you for the hug. I'm scared to close the door, I just don't feel ready. Everytime I read something and just yesterday I did, the Bible book of Hosea always shows up, it has from the very beginning. I don't know if you have read it but basically Hosea (the husband) takes back his wife as commanded by God after she commits adultery. It does not feel right for me to give up, I truly feel God is telling me to hang in there. Just when I start to give up, I see his word, and it encourages me to wait.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Seahorse:
GC just wait a bit and see what happens. Do not do anything to help this dv along, if it happens, and keep getting advice from SH. Do not do anything until you have consulted with him.

your H is in major fog right now. He has got scared and is lashing out at you. Hopefully he will not do anything rash, but this cannot be guaranteed, obviously.

OW is making selfish demands and having angry outburst, you know what these are - love busters, major ones. Things are not rosy in paradise, so bide your time.
<hr /></blockquote>I'm not going to encourage it, but from the way he is acting, he seems pretty set to do it. I don't know how the OW is acting in this situation, if she did demand it, it doesn't seem to bother him. He has filed in the past, but he did not go through with it, I am pretty sure he will this time.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by hope4future:
All the things he spew from his mouth are moreso to convince HIMSELF than you. Detach!! Don't take it personally!! Do what you can to work on yourself and your life, and let him build his sand castle. The big wave of reality will bring it crashing down before too long.<hr /></blockquote>He thinks that they have lived reality, since had lived together for at least 18 months, even though we spoke almost every day. Any suggestions on detaching and Plan Aing at the same time?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maw64:
... You sound like you are falling into a deep depression - Have you been to your doctor - are you on antidepressants?? I will tell I was never one for them but I went to therapy for a few months and he told you know you are dealing with something tragic and each day it is something new you need medication to help you process this pain<hr /></blockquote>I was on antidepressants before, I had alot of side effect headaches, I didn't want to stay on them forever, I knew that I had to face reality.

Gosh he's gone through this cycle twice now. His stuff is at your place. He's living alone. He has not moved back with her, by his choice or her demand.

There were about 3-4 false recoveries before I threw in the towel and said no more. We did not have another woman involved - he went back and forth between his parents and me. But each time he went back I was a wreck. Only the Witnesses surrounded me and picked me up. So go to church and surround yourself with friends.

- Relate

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Relate:
There were about 3-4 false recoveries before I threw in the towel and said no more. <hr /></blockquote>This is our 3rd false recovery, I was really hoping the 3rd time would be a charm

I am trying to have faith here, my husband is having his first counseling session with a therapist on Wednesday (she double booked on last Friday and canceled). I am hoping he does not make a rash decision of filing before this. I hope she can bring out his indecision and turmoil inside of him.

I had mentioned to him last week that I would be willing to schedule an appointment with her by myself so she could get a better in depth understanding.

I pray that she can open him up, I really do.

Hi G_C,

I hope you didn't understand me that I was telling you to give up. No, this isn't what I was trying to explain when I wrote " when one door closes another will open."

I meant for you to let go. When I say let go, I don't mean to give up. I mean let things go.
Do good things for yourself and see what time brings. Find abit of inner peace and calmness.
Let go of "wanting" so badly. This is a big inner challenge, I know and I know how much strength and energie one needs to come to this state of letting go and letting things happen.

"When one door closes another will open": try to see what might happen when you close the door. Concentrate on yourself and your happiness. Stay polite and calm towards him and don't build up a negetive additude. This will harm "you" the most. There are no long-term "winners" and "loosers" in this, even if you might think this right now. I know this hurts, it tears us apart and yet if you manage to keep your pride and calmness you will always be able to look back in your life and be prowd of yourself.
Believe me, your H will think about this too. This might be what Plan A is about. Do the right thing for yourself and leave the best impression, give reasons for him to think good about you and feel good about yourself and your reactions.

"another door will open": you will have to find trust within yourself. You will be finding out things about yourself that you probably never knew. Stay open for life and find out what it has to offer. Find happiness is small things in what you have now. Do things that make "you" happy. Don't concentrate only on what "could" be. I know you are probably thinking that this is impossible right now but try it. Go for a walk, listen to musik that makes you feel good. Take a bubble bath and have a glass of wine with yourself. Get your hair done, make yourself look good. Buy something nice and then just go out for a cup of coffee on your own.
You might not think that you can do this right now, but try!!!! I did this and it helped "ME". It made "ME" feel better. It pulled me out of depression and it helped me not to fall into a state of "locking myself" outta life. I hope you understand what I am trying to explain.

When you feel like crying, do it!!! Let out what you are feeling. Then tell yourself that you are a wonderful person and your life is going to be ok. Give yourself a smile and give yourself comfort.
But really try to "let go" and get into life!!!!!!
I was just talking with my H last night and we were discussing something about a girlfriend of mine. She is separating from her H and she is doing this on her own. She isn't having an affair and I told my H that this is what I really look up to.

She has trust within herself and doesn't feel strong because she has someone "giving her strength" or "babbling" in the background. She is listening to what she wants.

I think that when people get into affairs and suddenly think that everything was so wrong in their marriage they feel this way because there is someone there that is "babbling" the same thing. They fall for the temptation and feel as if they have to decide between "heaven" and "hell". They will make the same mistakes unless they learn.

The couple that is having an affair are thinking that their world will never become that way. Who knows? Heaven hardly ever stays this way and if they want this to last they must learn to work on their relationship and not give up and move on and think it's gonna just happen.
This is why an affair hardly turns out to be a long-termed funtional relationship. It has started "tricky" and it was based on "unhonesty" and "lies". It might feel right, it might last for a while but it hardly does as this too becomes "routine" and the bad sides of each participant will smack into their faces one day.

Your H OW does seem to know what she wants. As you wrote he moved out because she pressured him to either divorce or go. So what was your H doing?? He didn't want to be pressured nor did he want to be told what to do. He moved!!!! When things were not working for you and him, what did he do?? He moved!!! He had someone in the background "babbling" and this made him feel strong!!!

When he was on his own, he was seeing you and he was feeling good about this. This made him feel strong!!!
Now OW is "babbling" again and this makes him feel strong to want to divorse. So again he is moving from you!!!! (emotionally as you weren't living together)

What does this tell you????? G_C, think!!!!!!!!!!!! When the next conflict comes up he will again "MOVE!" He will be doing this over and over again as he isn't strong on his own. He seems to always need someone.
Now he has actually told you that if you don't have a smooth "divorce" things will be getting bad for you and he will punish you!!!! (I'm just reading between the lines)
I read from this that OW is "babbling" in the background!!! She is pressuring him and giving him strength. She will probably be doing this to get what she wants.
Your H feels that this is right!!! But it's a "time factor". If you can stay calm and give no pressure he will be seeing this and this will for sure come into his mind.
Think, he thinks he's getting heaven!!!!!!!!! He thinks when this is all over everything is going to be a "dream"!

Again, what will he do when "conflicts" come up???? Who will he run to???? What can he and OW look back to???? I'm pretty sure that OW is very dominent in this case. But what will your H do when they have problems and he feels "weak" again??? He doesn't seem to have the pride to stand through difficult phases, he tends to run when problems come up.

As long as your H doesn't know what "HE" wants it would be better for you to concentrate on yourself. You are swinging with HIS problems as he doesn't know what he wants!

So no matter how sad and how bad you might be feeling, ask yourself if you would want to "switch" with him, no knowing what you want and who you truely are. Live YOUR life and see what will come.
I truely wish that your H will come out of his "fog" and see what is happening instead of living in "confusion" and fantasy.

This will happen, it just will take time.

hugs
bb

sorry double posted

[ September 03, 2002, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]

Wow Blondblossom! great post.

GC I will pray for you.

GC,
I'm SO sorry for what you're going through! I read this the other night, and just couldn't come up with a good reply at that point, but you have been in my prayers.
It is hard to let God take care of things, but at this point you have to back off, and let God do his work. You have done everything humanly possible, now give God a chance to show you his glory! Time is on our side, and it does sound like just a lot of babble coming from your WH!
Who knows what the OW is doing at this point, pressuring him, etc. Sounds like he will run back to you...I think when this is all over for you yourWH will appreciate your loyalty and endurance and will bless you for believing in him.
My WH has been quiet this weekend, I've only talked with him once, so I'm in the dark about what he's doing with the OW. Patience!
Keep us updated.
Prayers for you,
KK

Hey going crazy - I hope you are doing better today - I don't think that antidepressants make you not face reality... I just think it makes you handle the situation better - I mean basically how much can one person handle. My husband wants to be my best friend which you know what somedays I am ok with and other days I am like why should I even give him the satisfaction... I mean I know my road is going to get a whole lot bumpier because I am going to court on 9-18 but I have to do what is right for me now - I think what everyone is trying to tell you - is to just think about yourself now - make yourself happy - don't give up on him but move on and then maybe he will come and maybe he won't but either way - You are going to be ok.... So how are you doing today???? Have you talked to your husband???

thank you so much blondblossom, Seahorse, KK, maw64.

blondblossom, all of your posts just make me tear up, you know exactly how I feel.

I sat down last night, and looked back on our marriage, the good times and the bad times. I looked back at how controlling I was, I really was, I thought of 20 awful situations off the top of my head. Maybe I'm in a fog, but I seriously cannot remember him doing LBing without me instigating it.
And then I looked at everything he had done for me, and felt awful, I truly did not give him the gratitude and admiration he deserved.
I know that is not an excuse for his behaviour, but I had to take a good look at myself, even Steve told me I was being controlling, LBing with disrespectful behavior towards WH. That any bit of Plan Aing I was doing was hidden by this attitude, and probably pushed him away.

So after I thought about all of these situations, I wrote a letter to him (yes, I know some of you want to kill me), but it felt like the right thing to do. I needed to get some of this stuff off of my chest, it was a 5 page letter in Word. No where in there did I ask him to come home. In fact I expressed some regrets, some thank yous, but told him I wanted him to be happy. He sent me two responses from this letter, one to my home email account from where I sent it, one from my work email account:

6:38AM <blockquote>quote:<hr /> We can talk later, I just do not think I can do this anymore. As much as it hurts me as well, I do not think I have it in me to fight. <hr /></blockquote>8:52AM <blockquote>quote:<hr /> I got your note, Thank you, We can talk about it later. I will try to write
my feelings as well.<hr /></blockquote>At least he did not mention divorce, it made me feel good to get those things off my chest, I did not plead or beg to him, I just told him how I felt about my behavior.

[ September 03, 2002, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]

Hi going_crazy:

I know it's hard but as WS we need to learn to let a certain amount of BS roll off our backs...because if we don't then it eats away at us and destroys a lot of positive work we've done on ourselves. A lot of what is said and done by WS is reflective of what is going on in that relationship...not necessarily what is going on in the marriage relationship. And so, we need to wait, for the time that the emphasis is once again on the possibility of restoring the marriage.

BS mistakenly ( and I've done it) try to argue and lecture their WS as to what is right...and you know what?....they don't care....they are only thinking about the OW right now. So waiting is the only option (and a good Plan A at the same time)...waiting until the WS is ready to accept that the affair is over, that it was all a fantasy, that that OP is not the "soulmate" they thought they were....but this all takes time (more for some WS, less for others) and it might not ever happen...and that is the eventuality that you must prepare yourself for...the necessity of moving on.

Once you reach that point, you have released your WS's power over you...including the power to hurt you...because you can see that you will survive and live on. And the power to take back your life is healing.

Now I say all this because I've been where you are, have heard all the WS scripts, lived numerous attempted recoveries (where WS was merely having difficulties with OW)...but until he was ready for it all to be over...then nothing we can do will convince him of it. But that time did come (and my WS was as adamant as yours at the beginning that OW was what he wanted).

Yes, it is hard...and for some the outcome is not what they wanted...but you come out of this...whatever the outcome...a stronger person.

WS is home now...really home...and I'm not afraid he is ever going to leave again...I can feel that this is where he wants to be...and it a way it took the experience with the OW to make him realize that. But I've also changed...I can take whatever comes...and I think he realizes that...and he realizes that I am here and have been here through all this not because I had no other options but because I believed.

If you believe then bide your time...work on yourself...keep yourself above the frey as much as possible...begin the possess of building a new life...and let your WS find his way back to you.

GC -- I've been gone all weekend and just fly back home this morning. My first order of business is to catch up with you and Seahorse. I am really sorry to hear what your WS said at the start of the weekend, but am more encouraged by the recent email replys.

It takes a tremendous amount of strength while you are in pain to look at what you did that contributed to the unhappiness in the marriage. I too wrote a letter apologizing for what I thought I had done. Thankfully, I started counseling with Jennifer H. back in March and she helped me see what I had been doing (disrespectful judgments mostly) and that the letter in and of itself would not be convincing -- it had to be a real change and demonstrated through action. All of the "educating" I tried to do in the first few months was doing me harm and not bringing me any closer to my goals of a) learning what I did wrong and trying to change it and b) letting my WH see that I had love for him.

Your pain right now may seem insurmountable, but I believe there is still hope -- if you can be patient and you can pull back and you can do the best plan A when you do see him.

Every week I think "why am I continuing to do this". It is too painful. And, every week I remind myself that I have made changes for me and how I will be in any relationship and that to lose hope right now will just leave me with regrets. I need to know that I did everything humanly possible to show the love and gratitude that maybe I didn't do very well for a long time. I need to know that I gave it everything that I have -- I can't control what WS does, but I can guide my own choices and I chose to do this. I can always chose to stop, but I don't think you do that until you are really ready to give up and go to plan B and accept divorce. You WS may have stated he plans on filing, but I do not sense that you are really ready to give up. It ain't over til it's over.

GC; you've got a good support group here, and you're getting very good advice. I did just want to drop in, catch up, and let you know I'm rooting for you as well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC, I have been out of town on business for the last week or more.. wow, alot of changes in a short period of time, you have great advise, you are in my prayers...stay strong.. Some time ago someone here on MB wrote the definations of:
letting go
giving up
moving on

Letting go does not mean you have to give up or move on. I will try to find the post.

Hang in there, things will get better.

Dave

Buffy:
I am so happy that your marriage survived this. How did you know when it was for real, did you ever have to go to Plan B? I am trying to concentrate on myself, take a deep look within and try to get rid of the ugliness. I can’t change him, and its an LB to try to. I’m scared that I am running out of time, especially if he files, then it will only be 60 days.

Unsureheart:
I hope your time away was enjoyable, you could probably tell from my posts that I was sinking in my self-pity and depression. I have to look at the positive on his replies, at least he did not mention divorce, but I also know not to get my hopes up either.
Steve told me last week when I counseled that I was trying to “educate” WH. And I felt like it too, I felt like I was telling him how he feels instead of listening. I had looked at Lostva’s post where she had written a letter to her WH once a week mentioning good times past and present. I look back and remember all the wonderful things he has done for me, and I never showed appreciation and gratitude, just told him I didn’t want something, he spent too much money. Now looking back, I realized that he wanted to make me happy and this was his way of showing it. I just had to clear up issues in the past to be able to move forward, not for sure which direction, but at least forward.
How did your husband react to your letter?
I still have hope for our marriage, especially after hearing others say that their WH said the same thing, I am going back to my modified Plan A/B, Steve agreed with that approach. Detach, do not pursue, let him come to me, and Plan A if he does.

Spacecase:
thanks for checking in, you know I am rooting for you as well!!

Davepr:
I’ve been wondering where you were!! Glad to see you are back, hope your trip was well. Yes, my roller coaster has been very active over the past week. I do appreciate what you said about letting go, I am trying to let go and let God take over, but I refuse to give up on this marriage.

G_C,

I think it was ok to write to your H an express your feelings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's a good thing when we think about ourselves and when we come clear with ourselves and when we learn from the mistakes we have made.
Don't feel so bad about yourself, making mistakes is human. It's just a good step being able to talk this out and come clear with yourself. I would leave it to this and not expect anything in return.
Admitting past mistakes and inappropriate behavious is for "yourself" and not to convince your H to change his mind.
Even though he has responded don't expect anything!!! From what he wrote back, he seems to feel that you want to hear something from his side.
I will try to explain what I think.
When he read what you wrote, it really pounded into his mind. There was no OW in the background "babbling". HE was reading it on his own and from what he replyed he doesn't know what he should do or say.
He feels "weak". If he was truely happy with his situation he would of been able to answer spontaniously but he couldn't. You surely have gotten him thinking.
But whatever you do, leave it to this!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't expect anything and concentrate on yourself.
He might talk to OW about your letter and if so, you will know!!!!! He will for sure get pressure from her side!!!!!!!!!!!!She will be "babbling" and he will then feel strong and he might even tell you to stop writting.
Take notice of HIS first reaction and this tells you he feels very insecure about himself. He thinks he doesn't have the strength to fight!.

You have told him what your feelings are and he is for sure "thinking". He will probably have the urge to talk to someone about this!!!! Now it is up to you and what you do.
I don't know what SH would say, but I feel that it would be the right time to PLan B.
He will then have to deal with OW "babbling" and he will be thinking about what you wrote.

OW might be telling your H that you wrote this to get him back and that you are doing everything to get him back and to split them up. But what will she tell him if you PLAN B?
This will not make any sence to her. She's expecting you to pressure and she's expecting you to slasch back. What will she say if this doesn't happen????
Nothing that OW has/is telling your H will happen.
If you have realized that your reaction in the past was always to "pressure" this would definately show a change in your behaviour and get your H thinking.

OW only knows you from what your H has told her. If he has told her that you are very controlling she was able to react towards him and of course show herself in a way that makes him feel that she is not controlling.
Hope this isn't tooo complicated and I hope you're understanding me.
OW knows what turns your H on and off. Think she is a "woman!" You know what woman are capable of doing and "men" hardly really read between the lines, nor are they really "aware" of the tactics that woman do on them to get what they want.

As we say here: She's giving him "sugar" when he reacts as she wants him to and "vinegar" when he reacts "insecure".
She is definately pressuring him, but in return when he reacts how she wants him too, she fullfills his Needs!!! She is directing him into the direction that she wants him to go and he isn't seeing this!!!!
She might be telling him to look at you and if he really wants that!!! She can only talk to him about the bad things of your past, the bad sides. She doesn't want him to think about the "good" times that you had. She will remind him that you are "controlling" and whatever.

What will she tell him if you "back off?" and PLAN B???
I don't believe that OW feels very secure. She knows that you are there and she wants your H!!! She knows that your H is very insecure and she knows what to say to give him a secure feeling. She's scared!!!! Believe me, she is!!!! She wants him to get divorced as soon as possible. She wants this and she's explaining to him why he should want this too!!!!

Think G_C. You know as a woman how easy it is at times to convince a man when we really want something, don't you????
It's just more difficult when it comes to "love". I believe that we can only feel truely devoted to one person. Men tend to think that when sex is good and talking is good, it's love.
The woman that is sharing this with them can make them believe almost anything. They don't read between the lines until there is a break in the cycle.

I'm so sorry that this is getting so long, but I truely hope that this might help you. It's what I have experienced.

When my H was having his affair, he told OW many things about me. (negetive) so OW knew what turnen my H off and of course she was able to react in the opposite way.
This made him feel safe with her and he believed that she was absolutely the opposite from me. He wasn't aware that she was reacting to what he told her.

He told her I was controlling so she reacted the opposite.
He told her I wasn't happy, so she acted happy.
He told her that I yelled when I got mad so she acted very quiet and smooth
He told her if I ever found out about his affair, I'd freak OUT and the situation will be very UGLY!!!!!!!! So OW got prepared for this and told him she would go through this with him and help him through!

But G_C when I found out about his A, I didn't freak out and nothing became "UGLY!!!"
I reacted completely different and neither of them understood what was going on.
OW was prepared to fight on my H side when I found out and it didn't happen.
Ow had NO words, she was baffled!!! She only knew the things he had told her and couldn't tell him anything because my reaction didn't make sence from what she knew about me.
If I would of freaked out and yelled and whatever she would of been able to react and influence his decision. But she had no way to react.
I was smooth and understanding.
I was acting happy.
I was not controlling.
I was not yelling.
I was not pressuring.
I was listening.
I was there for him and helping him whereever I could.
We were even having the greatest sex that we had!!!

So this way I broke the cycle.

OW is expecting you to react the way you did in the past. She doesn't know you, she just thinks she knows how you will react and she is telling this to your H. Because it seems to have happened in the past and you H seems to believe that what OW says is true he thinks she is the right person.

What will he be thinking when she too gets "confused" and doesn't know what is going on because you are backing off completely and living your life? What will she then be able to tell him????She might think that "you have given up". She might think that she has "won!"
Yes she might think this and she will feel secure. She will feel safe.She will no longer feel scared. This will probably happen, yes.

But this will be a matter of time and then her true colours will show!!!!!!!!!!!

Back off and let your H live through this. He'll be thinking of the words you wrote and he will see your reaction. He will be dealing with the OW "babbling" and he have to deal with many questions that OW cannot answer. It is up to him if he wants to live his own life and make his own decisions. It is up to your H to find out what he wants without being told by "anyone!"

No matter what you decide to do, do it for your wellbeing. Do it and learn that this is a good thing to do. Backing off and not pressuring in the right situation is always a good thing.

take care of yourself
hugs
bb

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BB: I totally agree with you, I have not spoken to my husband since he responded back to my emails. He even sent me another one this morning asking me how my doctors appointment went yesterday. Since he seemed to not want an action out of his emails yesterday I did not respond, but I will probably just send a quick one back (but not right away) responding how my appt. went.

Steve did tell me to Plan A, but detach, kind of where I was before, where I let him come to me, I did not pursue, initiate any R talk, but let him come to me and Plan A'd when he did, but acted like a friend.

You are right, he is probably expecting me to contact him, and retell him everything in that letter, but I won't. I hope I left a positive impression with him and I am going to keep it that way, I want him to feel how it is to not talk to me for a while. Maybe he will miss me, maybe he won't.

G_C;

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> you sound as if you are abit better. I wouldn't in your case tell him anything about your doctors appointment.I wouldn't send him any notes at the moment. Get him thinking!!!!!!!!
Get him questioning!!!!!!! Get him wondering what is going on.
Remember he just told you a little while ago that he wants a divorce ASAP!!!!!!!!!

Just stay silent and kind if he contacts you but I wouldn't do any writtting anymore.

Get him wondering why you are not answering his email. He will be questioning and he is going to find your reaction different than it used to be, even if it is such a little matter as telling him about your doctors appointment.

Hold back!!!!!!!!

G_C, this is just my opinion, you know your situation much better than I do.

take care
bb

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

thanks, I will do that, I know he is concerned about my drs appt, had a mammogram and breast ultrasound yesterday because I had a lump about a month ago (ended up being an infection in my ducts that antibiotics took care of). I have a family history of breast cancer (mother, her cousin). I will keep him "concerned".

going_crazy:
Actions speak louder than words. I notice that though he filed, he hasn't served you with the papers. What does that tell you?

Hi- GC, Cking in. Any news on his appt with counselor... dont ask though.. let him come to you totally.. not even one word about how it went. OK? I have to get busy and work, there is much to do and drive me crazy in spreadsheets here today and a lot that is being loaded on me... all very detailed and tedious that is not at all me... OH BOY... anyway... It keeps me busy... concentrate on work and you , that will make you feel better.

hugs to you, I am thinking of you.. tonite will be at my first divorcecare class 6-8 with childcare... so I am looking forward to that.

back to my spreadsheets... Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bellevue:
going_crazy:
Actions speak louder than words. I notice that though he filed, he hasn't served you with the papers. What does that tell you?<hr /></blockquote>That was last year, Mar 01, it dropped out of the courts.
He told me this weekend that he definitely wanted a divorce, pressure from the OW, probably, so he can go on with his life and be with her.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Honey:
Hi- GC, Cking in. Any news on his appt with counselor... dont ask though.. let him come to you totally.. not even one word about how it went. OK? <hr /></blockquote>I haven't responded to his emails, I know he is supposed to see her today unless he cancelled. Hopefully by me not being at his beck and call every time he contacts me will confuse him even more when he sees there. Hopefully he won't be so sure to want me out of his life, but yet again, it could backfire on me too. He may be angry that I have not responded.

I'm not going to ask how his therapy went, I will let him tell me, I just hope she is professional enough.

Going Crazy - You sound much better - I hope not only for your sake that she is a professional - but that she also wacks him up the side of the head to knock some sense into him... Wouldn't that be nice....You are doing great somewhat letting it go and not harping on it - and I bet you feel 100% better not all freaked out - You know someday (I hope) our lives are all going to be back normal - with or without our wayward spouses - we are what matters after all of the crap we have been through - do you have any kids?? I may have asked this before but I don't remember???

Maw64: Thanks, I do feel a little better, I'm no good to anyone including myself sitting in a deep depression, I can't change him or the situation, only myself.

No, we do not have children. Something that he said to me last week that really hurt was that he was afraid of the idea of having a family with me because he knew he would do it again. But the idea of a family with her doesn't scare him as much, ugghh. They don't even know the sense of family, he says that he feels welcome by her family, but they don't even know he's married!! How much would they welcome him then??

taking a break from spreadsheet hell... Hey I did page Jim yesterday... and he paged me back but I did not answer.

stay strong......
Honey

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Honey:
taking a break from spreadsheet hell... Hey I did page Jim yesterday... and he paged me back but I did not answer.

stay strong......
Honey<hr /></blockquote>Honey, why did you page him? I'm going to use Pepperbands MB whip or whatever she has on you!! LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> you sound as if you are abit better. I wouldn't in your case tell him anything about your doctors appointment.I
wouldn't send him any notes at the moment. Get him thinking!!!!!!!!
Get him questioning!!!!!!! Get him wondering what is going on.
Remember he just told you a little while ago that he wants a divorce ASAP!!!!!!!!!

Just stay silent and kind if he contacts you but I wouldn't do any writtting anymore.

Get him wondering why you are not answering his email. He will be questioning and he is going to find your reaction
different than it used to be, even if it is such a little matter as telling him about your doctors appointment.

Hold back!!!!!!!!

G_C, this is just my opinion, you know your situation much better than I do.

take care
bb <hr /></blockquote>GC, I totally agree with BB, detach, keep your Plan A/B but detach from him, make him wonder, let go, but don't give up. If you were divorced and he was married to OW, would you be e-mailing him daily, probably not. He thinks he wants a divorce, then start to act like you are (to some degree), continue to PlanA/B, but don't be there to immedately respond to everything. Hang in there, my guess and hope is that he is going to do another 180 down the road, probably sooner than you think. In my experience, when the WS is on the fence like this and goes back in forth, the duration of the cycles tend to get shorter in time but if he knows that you are always there, always waiting for him to come back, he will continue to string things out. He knows you love him and he know you want to work on the marriage, you have shared your most inner thoughts and feelings with him, you have and continue to work on yourself (Plan A). I think the modified PlanA/B -detach advise from SH is great, hang in there, I know it is very hard.

I had to let go before my WS would come back, the more desperate I became, the further it drove her away. When I was finally stong enough to detach and let go, she took notice and came back. The PlanA/B can be very effective..

Take care,
Dave

Thanks Dave, I have been really good, I have not responded to him, detaching like this does help me feel stronger, I don't have to listen to his babble.

However, I am wondering so much how is therapy appt went, he will probably be emailing me with the update (maybe) tomorrow morning

Going Crazy - I wouldn't take offense to him saying he would have kids with her I mean give me a break how well does he know her??? And if they ever were to get together it would never last because their whole situation is based on lies....You know for the life of me I wish I knew what made these people tick - I am talking about WS and OW and OM - I mean really what kind of a person would cheat??? Why does he think he would do it to you again...???? That is just horrible - This is one experience that I never plan on living through again.... I would not wish this upon my worst enemy - well maybe my husband and the other woman getting a dose of their own medicine wouldn't be bad... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!! How long have you guys been married??? Is he going through a midlife crisis - my husband is 37 and I would definately described his crisis as a typical midllife crisis-- But I will agree you definately feel stronger when you pull away and try to make yourself happy - You know the heck with them theory - though I know from past experience that it really doesn't stay that long but enjoy it while you can... Stay strong....

Maw64, it was 5 years of marriage back in June, we were together 2 years prior to that. He started acting "funny" turning 30. (I'm 29, he's 31 now). A little early for a MLC, I think, but who knows?

WH has been by the house this afternoon (he still pays half the mortgage) to get his mail. He would have had to make a special trip of here to do that, so either he is going back to where he is staying, or he will travel further to see OW, or maybe he came back in town to go file for divorce??

Didn't leave me a note or anything!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

GC -

I take it you were not home when he came by because of how you worded your post?

Honestly, I know it's got you wondering what he was doing..where he was going...but if you weren't home...I'm kinda pleased about that because it still keeps you in no contact...and makes him keep wondering/guessing about you and how you are doing..although I know it's probably driving you nuts... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Would he have been expecting you to be there or not when he came by? Not sure if you work..and what kind of hours...so am unsure if he made the trip intentionally to coincide with a time when you probably would not be there.

Well, try not to think about it too much...I know this is easier said than done.

Here are some hugs for you....

((((( going_crazy )))))

Warmest Regards,

YR

I'm not for sure what time he came by, but I am sure he was trying to avoid me, I didn't get home until about 6pm, he gets off about 2pm, with an hour drive here.

Also, it makes me wonder if he kept his therapist appt, because it is near his work???

Going Crazy - OK stop wondering or again your name is gonna come into play - do not try to figure out why he came or when he came or if he was avoiding you because you are not going to know the answer - You know I am going to start taking my own advice - I think everytime I try to give someone my opinion on their situation it helps me see my situation clearer - Anyways back to you - you can't speculate on what he did because you cannot control what he did or what he is doing - Remember it is about you - not him - you cannot help him - you know my lawyer told me that men in their 30's are having their mid life crisis nowadays - I mean she is a divorce lawyer and she has seen it all. So maybe it is a crisis if not midlife then some kind - So he is still paying half of the mortgage so he cares about something - I mean he could have just not paid or he could have made you put the house up for sale right??? I know you are going crazy trying to figure out what is up - but I don't think you are gonna find out - you have to just sit back and see what happens - It is up to you how much you are going to deal with. I have found in my situation that I know he cheated on me, I know he lied to me for over a year, I know that he basically dumped me - but I also know that no one thinks I should give him the time of day. But I know that I still love him, I know that he has lost his mind and is making a huge mistake... So for me it is easier to just talk to him on a friendly basis when he calls to talk to the kids - Everyone has to do what is right for your own situation... But you know my cousin told me I am worthy and I deserved to be loved and someday I hope to be with my husband or maybe with someone else... Who knows??? But just relax and let it run its course.... Keep up your chin... and smile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!

yes, maam maw64!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You are right, worry is the waste of my imagination!!

By the way, how did it go with the IL's ( I think that was your post?)

Hey no the IL's wasn't my post - it tends to get confusing doesn't it - I actually haven't posted in awhile because things are relatively calm - I am going to court in two weeks from today so I will probably be falling apart soon - but right now I am on an upswing - I actually think sometimes the using your real name works better - I am Mimi - because if you think about most of these names they all sort of blend together because they basically are meaning the same thing and very close you know... So I take it your husband hasn't tried to get in touch yet... I am sure you are watching American Idol - I never watched that - I am watching Big Brother - I am really hooked on this one.....

Hey GC -- MaW/mimi is right on with the don't think too much about why he came over. Since what they are saying and doing doesn't make much sense, you definitely shouldn't try and make sense out of it.

I will check in with you tomorrow -- I'm so tired right now I can't post intelligibly right now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />WH has been by the house this afternoon (he still pays half the mortgage) to get his mail. He would have had to make a special trip of here to do that, so either he
is going back to where he is staying, or he will travel further to see OW, or maybe he came back in town to go file for divorce??

Didn't leave me a note or anything!! <hr /></blockquote>GC, I think the more you can detach yourself from this situation, the less GC you will do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
In addition, I think it will also give you a better chance at your marriage. I know is it hard, I used to set goals for myself, I would not iniatate any contact for 1 day, then I would try to go 2 days, then 3, etc... the better I got at this the more FWS would come around.... If WS iniatiates contact then Plan A, be nice, polite, respectful, caring, etc but stay calm and a little reserved, make him wonder, show him that you are stong and you will get through this one way or the other and you will be a better, stonger person for the experience, and YOU will be!
Dave

Stay Strong,
Dave

Hi everyone! I don't post much because I don't feel that I have good advice to give. I think I kind of stumble around. I am so happy to hear all the other BS's handling the WS's "fog talk" My WH's conversations are so similar. Doesn't have that passion for me, wonders if we ever had it, afraid we will never get it back, doesn't want to reunite unless he KNOWS he will be happy. Geez! Forget about doing anything, right Nick, a magic spell will just be cast, nothing to do with anything we ourselves do!

I am in Plan B since 8/4 after a failed reconciliation. WH renewed contact and told me it wasn't a big deal since our marriage problems have nothing to do with OW and he wouldn't be with her even if we aren't together. I do find myself trying to "educate" him as G_C says and trying to understand him, even though SH says he isn't using sound logic.

So, thank you for sharing, all of you. I am with you--one of this gang of wonderful people whose wit and intelligence and faith is incredibly inspiring.

Maw64:
I was thinking it was either you or mgm, I will have to do some searching, it was about a month ago. Yep, I was watching American Idol, it was on a 1hour tape delay here, bummer, because Honey called me at 9pm my time, and told me who won!!!

Unsureheart:
I know babble, babble, babble, I need to go see if Orchid has responded to my thread, you stay strong too!!

Davepr:
You know me too well, when I first decided on a screen name going crazy was the first thing that came to mind. Since he has emailed me 3 times since my letter, (first one says he can’t do it, second one thanking me, third asking about my dr appt), I am thinking I am going to send a quick email tomorrow morning, maybe, need your thoughts on that. I was just planning on saying that my tests were normal, not ask how is appt went (if he kept it).

Anne6263:
Have you started a recent post?? I’d like to hear your experiences, does the fog babble sound the same to you?

HEy, I am still up... and it does look like you are getting GREAT advice and GREAT SUPPORT HERE AT MB!!!!

Wish you could go to the astros game with us on the 12th! Hey, I am feeling stronger but weaker.. it is so hard.

I know I drove my spouse away and then even more in the seperation by my affair lb's.

I reallyh have to be the old me, the one he fell in love with if there is ev er love to be between us again. I dont when I stopped being the wife, and lover, etc.. and started being the fixer and the boss of our life.. his life.

I read tnite that men hate to feel controlled.. it emasculates them... they hate it. THey run from it, it is suffocating... let them be FREE.... let loose the noose... hehe... I am up a little late for my brain. I got sleepy in bed reading a book I grabbed at bedside about what makes men stay forever and what drives them away... Yes, the controlling wife is a true turn off... true many of us controlling woemen think we are doing this out of love or concern... sometimes it is out of FEAR.. that they will leave us if we let go... I had such a mixtyre... the drinking, the thinking J is irresponsible with money... me trying to fix the budget and our lives by taking control of it all.

Oh... I am so unhappy with what my life is now, and I have to fix it.. with or without him... that is what we must do... fix it to be happy alone then the love will come with them or with another... hopefully and surefully with them.

I think hyour ow will lb... just give her the rope to hang herself.... I did hang myself with just my regular thoughts to go on. I have learned a lot and have more to learn... ASD HAV#E you... You are strong.. YOu are the strong woman he has come back to several times.. the one he married.. the one he can't divorce.

Remember that . and act as if things are right... dont talk about your insecurities... tonites reading sd that the insecurities make the man unhappy and make him feel untrusted... trust that he is yours and is returing to you becuaws oh my gosh I cant type... he is returning to you because he cant leave you...

Anyway.. think my sleepiness is definitely here. I am sick ovwer not being able to do more housework... but I guess it's the weekdays. My house!!!! AGH.

I think it is great that this week has gone so well... keep it up GC! You are GEtting Congratulations... on thye restoration of your marriage GC! OK!

Hugs to you and goodnite and good day tomorrow... keep busy and focused on you. Honey

G_C;

you really sound as if you are doing good. It's great when we feel that we are not alone when we are going through such hard times isn't it?

What Honey wrote about men hating to be controlled is very true!!!!!! I agree completely with her!!!

I don't want to get your thoughts too "high". But I think the fact that he came to get his post wasn't just to get his post.
He could of asked you to send it to him, couldn't he???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
You said he had sent you 3 messages. You answered neither. Each message seemed to get "softer".
And when you didn't answer, what did he do???? He came to get his "post!"
It doesn't matter if he wanted to see you or not, it doesn't matter if he wanted to avoid you or not. He was taking the chance to see you because if he wanted to avoid seeing you, he would of just sent you a message.
You have definately gotten him thinking and curious. I still wouldn't contact him!!!!!!!!!
I know this is surely very difficult but if you look at what is happening you will see that he is reacting. You are "pulling back" and he is taking steps forwards, towards you.

Let him figure out himself what is going on. Don't even react to him that he got his post. He will surely be waiting for you now to say something. Believe me, he's waiting for you to say something. He had the urge to come home and get his post, he felt he needed to do this.
He's definately curious because men hardly go out of their way just to get their post or things like that.

By the way, this must of been a very strange "feeling" for him to be in the house alone after such a long time. I'm sure he was really thinking.....................

Keep yourself as busy as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

hugs and stay strong!!!!!!!!!
bb

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> handling the WS's "fog talk" My WH's conversations are so similar. Doesn't have that passion for me, wonders if we ever had it, afraid we will never get it back,
doesn't want to reunite unless he KNOWS he will be happy. Geez! Forget about doing anything, right Nick, a magic spell will just be cast, nothing to do with anything
we ourselves do! <hr /></blockquote>WS are very predictable.. I think most of us have heard the same thing, it is VERY common and part of the Fog. Don't believe much of what you hear from them, you can't apply logic to a person that is not thinking logically. They will do and say about anything to justify the situation, sometimes I think they are trying to justify it to themselves..
My FWS does even remember saying these things now... so I would try to let these things bounce off you and not take them to heart.

GC, if you do decide to reply, I would just state that everything is fine, thanks for asking. Nothing more, don't leave the door open for an on-going e-mail conversation with him at this point in time..

Good luck,
Dave

Honey: I was up until 1:00am last night, finished my book. Its called the Surrendering Wife, by Laura Doyle

BB: the book above explains how a woman can be less controlling in her marriage, wish I would have seen it before!!
The fact that he came to get his mail doesn't mean anything, that is the way he has always done it, knowing that I would not be home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Davepr: well, I did just reply to his email he sent me yesterday (sorry, BB), but I just said that everything was fine, thanks for asking, and that was it

G_C,

hope you're ok. You know your situation the best so no need to say "sorry". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care
bb

ooooppppps double post

[ September 05, 2002, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]

Hey Going Crazy - Let us know if he replies to the short but sweet email - ?? OK??? I still think that if he is paying for half of the mortgage that also must mean something??? Has he ever asked you to sell the house??? Don't you just wish sometimes you could get inside their brains... You know it is funny about this controlling thing - I don't think that I am controlling but my husband does - totally - he thinks that because I used to make the plans for us, pay the bills, clean the house and basically do everything that I was in control - and you know the funny thing is that I didn't want to do anything - I just knew that if I didn't do it then it wouldn't get done??? It is also funny because most people looking at my situation think that he is the one trying to control me - trying to put the blame on me - trying put the affair on me - etc... He is really the one that controlled me - I used to never make plans outside of the family without discussing it with him first all of the time - There never was a me in the marriage - their was always a wife and a mother - So as far as the controlling thing goes - I don't really know how you define that word - but I know husbands and wifes have completely different interpertations... Let me know what is happening today... Mimi

Email I sent him, short and too the point:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />My appt went well, it wasn't painful at all like I've heard. Everything is okay, doctor said the tenderness is normal after the infection and should go away. Thanks for asking.
<hr /></blockquote>He just replied:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Talk to you later. Thanks for the update, I had to go by the house yesterday
to get clothes to wear to the City Council meeting last night.
<hr /></blockquote>I know I should not try to read into this email but from his response I gather the following things.

1. He had brought all of his dress clothes here, he only had everyday work clothes with him, he must have had to come up then go right back, its a little over an hour drive to his work, and I know his meeting starts at at around 5:30 or 6:00.

2. Since his meeting starts at that time and usually goes till about 9pm at night, I doubt that he would have made a 2hour drive after that to OW's house, just to get have to leave by 3AM to go back to work. Besides, his friend that he has been staying with is also on the Council.

3. So maybe he didn't have time to go file for divorce or anything like that?

4. Final question, did he or did he not go to his therapist?? I'm not going to ask, I will let him tell me.

MAW64: I just read the book called The Surrendering Wife, totally awesome, it basically to me elaborates on MB concepts. How to recognize disrepctful behavior, and how to treat your husband with admiration and respect. I too, did the same thing, paid the bills, took over the household, this book is awesome, men don't want to be controlled, the want to be the masculine one, they want to take care of their wife, if you got to www.surrenderedwife.com you can download and read the first 2 chapters for free.

Thanks for the info on the book GC....I am going to go to that site today and read the first 2 chapters. I have a huge issue with this...I did all the things you mentioned in your post...plus I support our household financially on my own...which is a huge issue for my H.

Regards,

YR

Going Crazy - Thanks I will go and check out that website tonite probably - but you know I don't feel like I was controlling - what are we to do when they won't pay the bills or do anything else - only because they know we will do it???? It is like when you have a newborn and your husband sleeps straight through the crying and you are up the second you hear a peep - they know that you are gonna do it so they don't even attempt - though I know that not all men are the same some will actually do things... So I don't want anyone mad at me... I am definately gonna check that site out... Now I wonder if he didn't mention it because he didn't go - or is he just expecting you to ask - ??? that is a good question??? I wouldn't ask just see what happens next....

Hi, Have to get back to the doldrums in a moment here... complain complain.. but I am sure you are doing great todya... I liked you short email and that he has not been threatening the big D or anything like that... in any emails , calls or etc. he is busy working and needed clothes for his meeting, makes sense... Do not even worry about him filing D.. he is not going to .. that was angry talk.

Let it go, be someone he can come home to... the submissive wife, right?

Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Plan A with no begging, pleading, chasing, or controlling. My gosh, I am better off just keeping my mouth shut. It's best to be silent sometimes!! Oh, I do hope he was just saying that out of anger. I am hoping OW is LBing and pushing him, telling him to do it.

Maybe she pushed him, he pushed you, then pulled himself back and regained his balance. Seems like he's settling into single living again, which is an improvement of your position.

Wash his clothes and iron and hang up his dress shirts? Will he see that as controlling?

What you've got to do is recreate passion in the marriage.

However, I found out the other day that you are just 29 and must have been 27 when this started. You have no kids. Is he worth it? I don't think the question is whether he wants to have children with you. It is whether you want to have children with him.

- relate

[ September 06, 2002, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: relate ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by relate:
What you've got to do is recreate passion in the marriage.<hr /></blockquote>it's very difficult to do that when he is not living here!! I haven't seen him for 9 days now, since the "talk"

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by relate:
However, I found out the other day that you are just 29 and must have been 27 when this started. You have no kids. Is he worth it? I don't think the question is whether he wants to have children with you. It is whether you want to have children with him.
<hr /></blockquote>I married him, he is my husband, I made a vow to him that I want to keep, to me, it does not matter if we have children or not. I know the man I married and wanted a family with, however right now he's a completely different person that no, I would not want children with. If we could go back to the beginning, no, actually start over, and rebuild on solid rock, yes, I do want a family with him

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by going_crazy:
Email I sent him, short and too the point:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />My appt went well, it wasn't painful at all like I've heard. Everything is okay, doctor said the tenderness is normal after the infection and should go away. Thanks for asking.
<hr /></blockquote>He just replied:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Talk to you later. Thanks for the update, I had to go by the house yesterday
to get clothes to wear to the City Council meeting last night.
<hr /></blockquote>I know I should not try to read into this email but from his response I gather the following things.

1. He had brought all of his dress clothes here, he only had everyday work clothes with him, he must have had to come up then go right back, its a little over an hour drive to his work, and I know his meeting starts at at around 5:30 or 6:00.

2. Since his meeting starts at that time and usually goes till about 9pm at night, I doubt that he would have made a 2hour drive after that to OW's house, just to get have to leave by 3AM to go back to work. Besides, his friend that he has been staying with is also on the Council.

3. So maybe he didn't have time to go file for divorce or anything like that?

4. Final question, did he or did he not go to his therapist?? I'm not going to ask, I will let him tell me.<hr /></blockquote>I responded back to his email this morning, he had basically said I will talk to you later, didn't iniate anything, so my response to his email was a simple:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />OK <hr /></blockquote>So WH sent me one back, I am not for sure if he was mad or what:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I love your one word answers now. I may come by tomorrow so we can talk, I am
playing golf in the morning in X at 10:00. I am staying at my grandmothers babysitting her dog right now. Joy, Joy <hr /></blockquote>Soooooo, do you think he's irritated or just wondering. I wonder what he wants to say. He also tells me in that email (without me asking), that he is staying at his grandmothers (close to his job, 2 hrs from OW), is he trying to tell me he's not staying with OW??
The bad thing, though, is that where he will be playing golf in the morning is about halfway between our house and OW's house, yuck!!

So, should I respond, ask him what time he is stopping by??

Hi GC -- I am going out at lunch at buying that book. I certainly had some of these traits and my WH has low self esteem to start with and I probably made it much worse. I've been trying. He keeps saying he's going to come over and mow the lawn and pick up the mower from the repair shop. It's been a month and a portion of my lawn looks like the tall grasses of the Serengeti Plain. In the past, I would have called the repair shop myself and picked it and mowed the lawn after about two weeks. This time, I just let it go and am letting him deal with it. So, I have an unsightly lawn that I'm sure is the subject of gossip with my neighbors and is probably harboring wild animals, but I'm ignoring it.

Hope you're having a better day.

I would tell him, in a nice way, that you had plans for the day, whether you do or not! Make something up if you have to! Ask him to be specific as to what time he was stopping by and you'll let him know if that was convienent for you. Part of the problem is that you've been to available to him, he runs to you and then treats you like a door mat. He does take you for granted and assumes you'll be there when ever he needs you. Show him that this is not the case. you will be there for him if, and only if, he is there for you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> actually start over, and rebuild on solid rock, yes, I do want a family with him <hr /></blockquote>I understand.

- relate

I responded back to his email, I didn't mention anything about talking, just asked where his grandmother went.

He replied back and told me she went to a reunion. So "most likely" this reunion is probably over the weekend, probably tomorrow, so that means he will still have to stay there?

Ugghhh, I'm scared that since I didn't jump on the opportunity to talk to him that he won't do it.

Just out of curiosity... what is it thats making you want to rebuild your M with somebody who has said this to you? I am all for saving a marraige worth saving... but im just not understanding this one. I am not trying to flame... sorry if it sounds that way. I just think your happiness should be first and foremost. Id be happy to get some enlightenment here.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by joule:
Just out of curiosity... what is it thats making you want to rebuild your M with somebody who has said this to you? I am all for saving a marraige worth saving... but im just not understanding this one. I am not trying to flame... sorry if it sounds that way. I just think your happiness should be first and foremost. Id be happy to get some enlightenment here.<hr /></blockquote>I noticed this is your first post. This site is called "Marriage Builders", hence I am here for a reason, like everyone else, to save and rebuild a marriage.

I love my husband very much, or I would not have married him. Yes, he has made a mistake, but we all do, I know he did not wake up one day and decide "I'm going to leave my wife for another woman and have an affair".

Additionally, if we only look into our own happiness, we will mostly look at what feels good at the present time, time will pass, and what feels good at the moment will be long gone. I am looking at my future.

I would advise, if you haven't already, to read the MB concepts and post your story

Joule,

Why does she ...? Because she wants to.

Stop pressuring her. She's handling enough pressure at the moment.

Oh god! Is it another one of his famous Saturday talks?! Wear a dagger-proof west.

- relate

[ September 06, 2002, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: relate ]

g_c... i completely understand. Short story: i was in a long term engagement, caught him in an A - fairly new one... but with a long time friend of his. I too would not have gotten engaged with the intentions of getting married had i not loved him. i had a son though.. and for that reason as well as my love for him i fought for our relationship. I applied the MB concepts (not intentionally - it just so happens my own personal theory coincided with it), and although he knew i knew aboutthe A, it just made him more cautious of how he did things. He changed his attitude towards me yes, but not his actions when he left the house. He truly never felt for me what he felt for this long time friend of his. Of course he loved me, we are good friends till this day... but im glad for my own well being that ive moved on. By no means would i have wanted to live my life married to a man that ever questioned his feelings for me at that level. Mistakes are forgivable, feelings are not erasable, however. As my feelings for him could not be swept under the rug, his feelings for her would never be swept under the rug. It was hard to live with... but 3 years later, it doesnt bother me in the slightest. (Sorry this is so long). I just read your posts though, and see the pain yorue going through with all of this, no matter how well you compose yourself in front of your H, and I cant help but think... is this really working for YOU? Say he did come back home, in 5 years will you really honestly truly be able to believe him? if you cant believe his words when hes in this "fog" of his... can you believe him when he says hes over her? can you believe that it is just a phase? I myself couldnt deal with the questions burning in the back of my mind, living with that. I truly hope things work out for you, wether they are with or without him. But how do you think hed react if you filed the divorce papers yourself? If he wants out so badly, or whatever it is hes claiming today vs. yesterday? I think some A's are a phase, are just a result of an open opportunity or whatever... and there are solutions and fixes... but it really does bother me to read the pain youre in. I felt that, and i tried so hard to fix something that just couldnt be fixed any longer, and that pain, and the pain of covering my own wounds, was harder to bear than just moving on. Even if it was without him. Good luck... you sound like a wonderful person. Im sorry this is so long, but your story really did strike a chord in me, sounded all too familiar. I wish you the best... Joule...

relate - (and g_c) sorry if i sound like im pressuring, i had a question and i didnt know there were restrictions on what could and couldnt be asked here. Ill make a mental note for future reference. I simply asked becuase of my own curiosity. and from the sounds of her posts, she is very caring and understanding, shes put up with alot, and been through alot, probably more than she deserves. And that is my point of it all. He has dragged her through this for how long? And shes still in plan A. Great for her. But... I think she may be capable of more. Hes still undecided for crying out loud. Im all for supporting her. But I support her working through her M as much as I support her being her own self, with or without him. I thought plan A included doing what you have to do with or without the WH. The only pressure is her own H's indecisiveness. Why should his decisions sway her? Shes way more intelligent than that, and Im not sure everybody here (not all) are giving her the credit that shes owed. Sorry if I offended anybody, but I certainly thought I was entitled to an opinion. I support her no matter what decision she makes, but I just hope they are her decisions based on her feelings and most importantly, her happiness. Sorry if that conflicts with anybody else's views. Ill shut up now before I make any more enemies so soon.

Joule,

I reread my post to you, and sorry if I came across a little harsh. Every now and then, we have people from other web sites (that support affairs) come and lurk here. When I saw your post and your question, it set a red flag to me, possible even a OW reading my thread.

Ive been in both positions actually, which doesnt appear to be welcome here... but i can see things from both sides. I understand your pain for sure though. And being in those shoes brings a whole new light to things. Even when i was the OW, i started off as the GF, he cheated on me and went on to marry the OW when she got pregnant. Turning me into the OW technically since I believed him that he was in a "trapped" M and continued to see him. Wierd I know... So even as the OW, i was the one betrayed. Once I moved on, I got engaged and thats when I experienced it solely from the BS side. And thats why I hope that either way, you are happy. It took me alot to get over both relationships and both betrayals, especially since they were both very long term relationships and having a child in the middle of it all. I truly believe you love your H, and I truly believe youll find a way through all this despite the pain. I think he does love you or else he would have done the walking a long time ago, but at the same time i hope if he does come home, its your happiness that comes first and foremost. Good luck. Id love to continue keeping up with your story to see how things work out for you, if im welcome here of course.

joule -

I am actually only a WS and I usually feel pretty welcome here. I ask for help..and I try to give help as the case may be. I'm sure that not everyone likes what I have to say..and I know there is no way that this many people are going to agree with each other on everything, so I try to just keep the good stuff and 'toss out' the bad.

You are welcome here, also....please don't let a few responses stop you from wanting to contribute or ask for help if you should need some.

Regards,

YellowRose

GC - sorry for highjacking your thread....

Hello everyone.

I think this is only the 2nd time I've ever said anything on the discussion boards, but I've been lurking for a while, hoping to learn as much as I can from others. It's good to know that I'm not alone in my experiences and pain (and sad, at the same time).

I've witnessed lots of love & support on this forum, and it brings me hope.

G_C, I don't have any advice, but you are in my prayers.

Sampras Fan

Just a thought--isn't one of the biggest problems with WS and OP that they think feelings "stay" as Joule said? That they allow themselves to be run by emotions and feelings alone rather than doing the right thing and working to regain the romantic love that can and does fade with time and reality? The whole MB formula gives you a chance to keep that romantic love alive. As SH told me, RL is very conditional and so we must each be responsible for keeping our spouse happy with us and in love. If we just run around following our feelings this world would be a hell of a place. Feelings follow thoughts and are only a product of our thinking system. Each of us has our own way of functioning and looking at life based on our past experience etc. For that reason we must realize that our thoughts are just that--thoughts, NOT reality. I hope I am making sense.

As for GC, she is obviously an incredible woman who loves beyond measure. She will get to the place you describe in due time. This is all a process. For me, 5 weeks into Plan B #2, I finally am just (for the most part) dealing with me. WH has to work out his own stuff! Thanks for reading this!

GC -- What are your weekend plans? Are you going to see WH or did you decide otherwise? I hope, in any case, that you do something good for yourself this weekend. Take care.

I'm sure you are aware that the 'talk' could mean you might get hurt again. It is possible he may be coming to take back some of his clothes. I suggest that, if the conversation gets difficult, you walk away saying you need to go to the ladies' or something. Then you could do something around the kitchen or in the garden while he does whatever he wants to do around the house. I think you have a right not to have to listen to hurtful things he has to say.

I do remember that when you asked him to promise that he would not talk to her again, he said something to the effect of 'that's ok. I don't think she wants to talk to me'. I'm sure the OW is angry at him for moving out while she was gone.

Best of luck for tomorrow.

- relate

[ September 07, 2002, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: relate ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love your one word answers now. I may come by tomorrow so we can talk, I am
playing golf in the morning in X at 10:00. I am staying at my grandmothers babysitting her dog right now. Joy, Joy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soooooo, do you think he's irritated or just wondering. I wonder what he wants to say. He also tells me in that email (without me asking), that he is staying at his grandmothers (close to his job, 2 hrs from OW), is he trying to tell me he's not staying with OW??
The bad thing, though, is that where he will be playing golf in the morning is about halfway between our house and OW's house, yuck!!

So, should I respond, ask him what time he is stopping by??<hr /></blockquote>GC, I truly believe that if you can back off for awhile, it will give him time to figure things out and he may do another 180. He does not like your one word answers, you can see this has an effect on him, keep it up. Try to continue to back off, the less you are avaiable for him and have contact with him, the better I think you will be. Remember a few months ago what happened when you backed off. Try to show him what life would be without you always being there, I don't
think he is going to like that very much at all.
What is the longest you have gone without any contact, including e-mail?
Take care,
Dave

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by unsureheart:
GC -- What are your weekend plans? Are you going to see WH or did you decide otherwise? I hope, in any case, that you do something good for yourself this weekend. Take care.<hr /></blockquote>Well...when he mentioned it in his email that he "might" come by, I didn't acknowledge it, he didn't come by, and since where he went today is between here and OW's, I guarantee he's spending the weekend with her, yuck.
Nothing exciting here, worked out in the yard all day, getting ready to leave to do some shopping.

Relate:
well, he didn't come by, I knew that he most likely would not so I would not set myself up for disappointment

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by davepr:

GC, I truly believe that if you can back off for awhile, it will give him time to figure things out and he may do another 180. He does not like your one word answers, you can see this has an effect on him, keep it up. Try to continue to back off, the less you are avaiable for him and have contact with him, the better I think you will be. Remember a few months ago what happened when you backed off. Try to show him what life would be without you always being there, I don't
think he is going to like that very much at all.
What is the longest you have gone without any contact, including e-mail?
Take care,
Dave<hr /></blockquote>I'm trying to back off, the longest that we probably went without talking was 2 weeks, this was while he was out of work, so didn't have access to a work email. He was still living with OW. I just happened to be home one day in the middle of the day during that period of time and he had came by to get his mail. He had said he missed me, but wasn't going to contact me and cave in first.

GC- So sorry. Hope you have fun shopping, HE is still confused.. play it safe and stay distant.

I am having money issues and called ws to ask him to work second job or something to support kids, and we got into lbs. He seems to think my salary is sufficient. At least your ws pays some for his obligations. YOu are lucky there.

Keep taking care of you , and keep the space.

Kooky ws of mine- asked if I wanted to live with him today...he is yanking my chain.

Hugs to you, HOney

just got back, I just want this to be over, my patience is dwindling by the second. He should be here with me right now, not there..

Going Crazy - you sound very bummed - you are right he should be there with you - but right now he isn't and unfortunately there isn't much you can do to change that right now...I know how miserable you feel and how everything just basically bites.. I don't think we deserve this - I don't think anyone deserves this - I wouldn't wish being betrayed on my worst enemy it is just really a horrible situation... I think maybe you should throw in a funny movie and try to take your mind off of him - or again - tonite you are gonna go crazy dwelling on it and I should know because I tend to do it all of the time - and I wish there was like some switch you could just turn off to get yourself out of this mode but unfortunately there isn't - and I hope that you can start thinking about something else - and I hope you don't have to bad of an evening - will be thinking about you - Keep your chin up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

well, I got my jammies on already, getting ready to go to bed, I'll work in my Rejoice Ministries workbook for awhile, just got it this past week. Probably thumb through a whole bunch of books I picked up at the library .

BTW, National Lampoons Vegas Vacation is on, does that count??

Woke up from a nightmare about h and ow number 2. He fille d my poor head with some real winning material when I called earlier today stressed over money. Asking him to please find a way to help support kids.. he just took it as lb and went off on me....

I am gald you are taking care of you in your pjs and watching a movie and doing your reading, etc. I do love the restore ministries workbook.

Hugs, HONEY

I am sorry. Looking at the facts, what I am advising is going into plan B.

You had a 3 year marriage which he left when you were 27. He's lived with someone else for nearly 2 years. He was also in his 20's when he found her and left. You have no children. The things he's saying are really difficult, and you don't want to hear him.

I can't remember the book and the verse (I think Deutronomy), but this is what the Witnesses (and the Protestants; I was a Protestant before beign a Witness for 2 year, and I am a Protestant now again) advised me in a similar situtation. There is a verse about when a man does not want his wife, he gives her a certificate and sends her forth. And she must go out of the house and become another man's. I think it says that she can remarry any other man, but if she does not find favour in the eyes of her second husband, she should not remarry. Ofcourse this is all from a very male point of view. There are instances where the Bible describes divorce, even though with great causion, even for that era. Where there is infidelity, it warrents divorce whithout hesitation. I listened to them and I went. I only gave it about 1 year for reconcilliation, a period of plan A, plan B then a last try and D, which coincides with the original MB time frames.

Therea are so many things to do in this world.

- relate

ps: Deutronomy 24

[ September 08, 2002, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: relate ]

Hey - Vacation - definately is a funny movie - I hope your night was ok - and today is another day - don't let this all get you so worked up again - enjoy the day - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - I will check in later to see how you are...

Hi GC- HOping today is a better day for you. You do not know he is with OW... so block out that thought. I just hate that you think he is with her. Just think he is without you.. what matters most.

Have a great sunday, Honey

Relate:
Plan B is your opinion, I counseled with Steve, he knows the entire situation, he advised Plan A so I am going to stick with it.

Hi - How are things going today?? Any contact with your husband or have things been calm?? I hope that you are feeling better about things!! You also have to do what you feel is best people can you there opinion but ultimately the choice is all yours.... I hope for your sake you get some answers soon.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

GC,Was SH advice a pure Plan A or modified PlanA/B? Hope you are doing well and had a
good weekend, I know weekends can be tough.
Take care yourself,
Dave

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maw64:
Hi - How are things going today?? Any contact with your husband or have things been calm?? I hope that you are feeling better about things!! You also have to do what you feel is best people can you there opinion but ultimately the choice is all yours.... I hope for your sake you get some answers soon.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>nope, I haven't talked to him at all, been watching football all day, makes me kinda sad because we love out team and was going to get season tickets, but didn't!!
I am trying to focus on the positive, he has not mentioned divorce since last weekend and he is not living with OW full time, that could be a good thing or a bad thing.

It could be good because: OW does not have him staying with her all the time, maybe it will make her "wonder" especially after he moved things out, maybe a potential of LBIng and questioning his whereabouts, maybe LBing by forcing him to get a divorce??

It could be bad because: They have their weekend getaways together, no more explanation needed.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by davepr:
GC,Was SH advice a pure Plan A or modified PlanA/B? Hope you are doing well and had a
good weekend, I know weekends can be tough.
Take care yourself,
Dave<hr /></blockquote>I think more of a modified version. He said Plan A but with detachment, no relationship talk, no pursuing, let him contact me. SH said it is very, very dangerous in my situation to implement a full Plan B as we have no children.

Hey Going Crazy - you sound like you are much better - maybe that is good or bad about him and the other woman - but you don't want to ask what is going on right??? I was never good with the plan A - I just couldn't stop myself from the constant one liners that always seem to come to me. So some stuff is out of the ow - but not all of it - Has he told you he was moving out of there?? I am glad he hasn't brought up the divorce in a week - I guess if you want to save the marriage you pretty much have to go with the flow - right??? Football - I love to watch it also I watched one game at 1:00 but it isn't the same without my husband so I changed to lifetime - it is sometime comforting watching movies that are real but make my life not seem so bad - talk to you later...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maw64:
So some stuff is out of the ow - but not all of it - Has he told you he was moving out of there??<hr /></blockquote>As far as I know, everything he had there has been moved back, he put it all away at our house and everything.

He told me that he has been staying with one of his friends closer to this work, which is 1 hour away from our home, but 2 hours from OW. I find it hard that he would stay there all the time with a 4hour round trip commute every day, but who knows?

Going Crazy - Ok now - why is his job an hour away from home - has it always been - ?? You know you read so many posts - sometimes they tend to run together - OK now he said he was bringing everything home then he changed his mind about getting back together - then he wanted to get back together - then he wanted a divorce and now he isn't talking about divorce or anything right??? Now I have it right I think - my god all of this really bites doesn't it... It is like changing from one day to the next - I remember when in the beginning all of this was going and everyday it was a new dilemma a new lie revealed another situation - another deception - and people would be like how is it going - I would have to stop and say ok well what do you know so far - because it had changed so much - Which actually if I think about it - it is very sad - maybe someday it will be funny to me... My husband today came to my daughters cheerleading game and of course he comes up in the stands and sits down next to me and talks like we are best friends or you know what better - husband and wife - and my sister is sitting on the other side of me - thinking that I am the worlds biggest sucker -because I give the time of day at all... This is all so hard - you never know what to do or how to react and basically this is our life and we want it one way - but in my case that way isn't gonna work and I have to start dealing with the direction it is going in - which is pretty scary.... Oh I don't want to bring you down - I don't know - you just never know - if someone where to have asked me 2 , 5 or 7 yrs. ago would I ever be in this situation I would have said no way.... That is most of my problem - we never really had any problems and were pretty happy.. Oh well talk to you later... Mimi

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maw64:
why is his job an hour away from home - has it always been - ?? <hr /></blockquote>A little history, he lost his job back in March due to corporate cutbacks, this is where him and OW had met, she had actually got a new job last year further away.

His new job is actually in his hometown, where all of his friends and family are. He has always said he wanted to move back there, even mentioned it about us moving back there during his "out of fog" phase.

Email me if you want at mb_going_crazy@hotmail.com and I can give you more details!!