I would be telling a lie. In some respects, it is getting better...I am Plan A-ing my butt off and WH is being nicer and more loving to me. In other respects, the status quo remains.

Last week I posted about WH's assessment that I am "too rigid." Taking the advice of all you good people, I took it as insight into his EN's and tried to respond accordingly. On Friday, I was off from work (we work an alternate Friday -9/80 schedule) and, as you may recall from previous posts, WH is on Short Term Disability (which he found out, today, has been denied - their doctor says he is not too disabled to work). We had a few errands we wanted to do and I thought it would be a good opportunity to dress in jeans and T. I did not dry my hair, so it laid flat, limp and straight as a board on my head. I also did not put on any makeup. What did my efforts get me? Nothing.

We ran our errands and WH said very little to me all day. We had a sitter, with the intent that we would also go out to dinner. We never made it to dinner because he wanted to stop by one of his watering holes to see if this guy that owed him $$$ was there - he works there and wasn't scheduled to start until 8:00 - we got there at 6:00. Did we leave? No, WH just stayed and stayed and stayed. By the time we went home, he was drunk - again. When we got home, while I went to pick up DS from the sitter, WH called OW (I know this because her number was on the redial of our phone - I certainly didn't call her, our 10 month old son certainly didn't call her and I don't think the dogs did either, but he insists he did not call her - remember he is supposed to have cut off all contact a week ago today) and ran out and bought 2 more beers. When I got home, he started in on me about how it was obvious I did not have a good time that day and why did I even bother dressing like I did - I looked awful and it was just another example of how very incompatible we are. I very nicely told him that I was not going to talk to him while he was drinking, but would be more than willing to talk to him in the morning when he was sober. He left....again. Came back the next morning and said he just wanted to forget the night before ever happened. Fine.

Sunday he claims to have gone to an AA Meeting, but came home beer in hand. I really think he just took the time to go off and call OW. He hasn't gone back.

At his C's suggestion, I have been reading Women are From Venus, Men are From Mars and have learned alot about how innocent things that I say/do could be construed by him as controlling,telling him what to do, etc. I have been trying to implement the ideas from that book and believe I am making some progress.

Today I had a session with my C, who said that OW is not my problem and I should just forget she even exists. She says that even if he left to be with OW, it would end in just a few months because of WH's drinking problem. She says that THAT is my problem, not OW or anything that I am doing or not doing. I now realize that she is right - I could work like hell on my marriage and, while it might make life more pleasant in our house, until WH does something about his drinking, none of my efforts or his having or not having contact with OW make a hoot of a difference.

What to do now????? Well, his C is working on the drinking issue with him and, maybe, just maybe, he will make progress and get him to start going to AA regularly or participate in an outpatient program. I will give it a bit of time and see what happens...just not sure how long. For now, my mantra is that I will not talk to him while he is drinking and will talk to him when he is sober....I will probably need that sometime tonight - he left 1/2 hour ago (drunk) to "go get something to eat." (Truth be told, though, to either drink more beer or call OW, or both). Oh, well, guess I'll just sit here and read until that happens or until I get a call from the local county jail....

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS-10 months
Status: Who knows???

Geez, BB, sorry to hear this. But I think it is good that you've established the boundary of not speaking when he's drunk. That just MIGHT help him realize it's an issue he needs to deal with.
Stay well.

Well, he's back and first he tells me he loves me, then he tells me he wants to be with OW, then he asks me to file for divorce...I simply replied that I have heard this broken record too many times and am not going to listen to it again. I said my mantra to him several times before he finally gave up and realized I wasn't going to argue with him. When he asked me to file for divorce, though, I did respond that if he wants to be with OW, he should go be with her and if he wants a divorce so badly, he should go ahead and file. You'll love this - he told me that he would go be with OW, but he cannot leave me with our son because of all the damage I am doing him by rocking and singing him to sleep at bedtime and when he wakes up during the night, instead of letting him cry it out. Bad, bad Mommy.

Brit's Brat

Wow... you see: the drinking really destroys him. Be firm with your demand that he should stop it. Maybe you want to go to the AA meeting with him?

The other thing re. ENs and how you try to please him more: I think the thing about plan A and trying to meet WH ENs is that you can't expect an instant reaction. All actions you should primarely due for yourself - and never ask or think: see? I did something [for you] now, when do I get something back? Wrong expectations. It takes longer.

But again, as you realise, as your C says, as many people on this board say: problemo #1 is his drinking. focus all on solving it, ignore all the other issues. you cant progress them unless #1 is solved

Brit's Brat -

Ugh..I was so frustrated for you when I read your posts. I remember reading the thread about casual clothing suggestions (i.e. jeans, t-shirt, etc.) and had been wondering if you had tried that and how it worked.

Being both a person who had a HUGE drinking problem and attended AA for over 13 years..and a WS..I definitely agree that it is hard to work on the M issue...or even the A issue..while his is still practicing his 'disease' (alcoholism addiction/abuse). Also, I've noticed an interesting correlation with MANY WS's that indicate a previous or current pattern of addictive behavior whether it is to food, drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc. I am not saying that all WS's are having A's are also alcoholics or drug addicts...but I have noticed a definite trend on this board that most WS's seem to always look to things (alcohol, drugs, food, sex, other people) to 'medicate' themselves with...to make them feel better. I can't tell you how many posts about WS's...or from WS's that show a pattern of other addictive type behavior during and prior to their marriages way before an A ever happened.

Your H is in the grips of his addiction...to both the OW and to alcohol. The alcohol will have to go regardless of whether the OW does or not or I fear...heck, I am almost positive that you will never have the type of M you are looking for. If he tries no contact with the OW right now...he will 'nurse' his wounded feelings..and try to soothe the pangs of withdrawal from her with his 'other drug of choice', alcohol. After he has some drinks...all of his resolve to 'not contact' her will 'melt' away...and once again, he will be in contact with either her..or someone else.

I am not meaning to make you feel any worse...I have just been where your H is at right now...albeit at different times in my life. You can demand that he stops...you can beg him to stop..others can do the same...but he will never get sober..and STAY sober until he wants it bad enough. He can stay sober for periods of time 'for other people'...but to have a lasting recovery...he has to find and hit his own bottom..and be motivated enough to do it because he needs to. In the meantime, you need to protect yourself and your son from his disease. Also, having..or referring to alcoholism as a disease never exempts an alcoholic from the responsibility for their behavior and their bad choices.

Now...for you..have you ever attended an Alanon meeting? That is the meeting for people who have relationships with an alcoholic. I would go to that meeting apart from anything he is doing with AA..or not doing with AA as the case may be.

Well, gotta wrap things up shortly...going to read a few more posts...you just keep taking care of your child as you obviously know how to do. Your H is just trying to justify why he is being a fool...and trying to 'excuse' why if the OW is sooo perfect he hasn't left yet. All must not be going so well in 'paradise' if he has to use such a flimsy excuse. If he wants the D...he can do the work...

(((((((Brit's Brat)))))))))

Warmest Regards,

YellowRose

I don't know if this has any basis in reality, but it occurs to me that all WSs need to find ways to alleviate the guilt of the A. Some (like my W) choose to project a lot of "stuff" onto the BS, among other things. Others may choose drinking, especially if they were drinkers already; in which case there COULD be a correlation between the A and the heavier drinking? Maybe?

I agree with SC...

Your H has what seems to be a very addictive personality and he is in the grips of a vicious cycle. He drinks to medicate feelings..and he had an A to make himself 'feel better...feel good' also...underneath all of the muck...he knows what he is doing is wrong..and to cover up the 'negative' feeling of guilt...he takes a 'dose' of whatever his drug of choice is to make himself feel a bit better and cover up the thought of having to truly think about how he is wrong in this...this 'dose' can be either a phone call to the OW, a beer or any other type of alcohol...visit with the OW...whatever it is...

One thing I hear over and over on here...is how can a WS do this? How can they hurt someone else this way? How can any loving/kind individual person do this to another? Well, unless we all want to say that every WS in history..and every other addictive person (i.e. alcoholic, addict, etc) is incapable of loving someone..or of a kind act...we need to understand that every WS..or alcoholic is fully capable of doing the right thing..and being a decent person...but as long as they continue to try and feed whatever 'hole' is inside them with other things...inappropriate things...they will continue to make horrible devastating choices...their addiction has become their God...that addiction cycle must be broken before thought processes and feelings return to the normal basis from which everyone else is operating from.

Please don't misunderstand..I'm not saying "Oh, please feel sorry for the WS's because they are addicted and can't help themselves.."...Bull! One thing I learned very quickly in AA and NA (Narcotic's Anonymous) is that no matter whether our behavior would have been different if we had been clean or sober, we were still responsible for every choice we made and every person we hurt. Part of the 12 steps had to do specifically with making amends to people we had harmed. Understanding that we had an addiction let us have the peace of mind of knowing we were not bad horrible people who were incapable of change..rather, it put the burden/expectation on us of knowing that we were capable of making the right choices and should always strive to do so regardless of how difficult it was.

Different WS's..just like different alcoholics have different 'bottoms'..the point at which things are so miserable that someone becomes motivated enough to change their behavior - it is hard to predict this from person to person. Yes, I know..many folks don't have to wait until they are miserable to become motivated to change. I'm not talking about 'normal folks' here...after all BS's, you would not probably actually have an affair in order to 'feed a hole' within yourself, right..so why did your WS do it..is it because they are morally inferior..I sure hope not. If so, how do we define 'morally inferior'..and why do other 'morally inferior' spouses not commit adultery? Some WS's are motivated to stop the A just based on seeing the hurt they caused the BS, some are motivated to stop when threatened with divorce...some are motivated when they are Plan B'd....the hard core ones are usually only motived to stop when the A stops 'working for them'...(sometimes this happens in conjunction with a Plan B..either motivated by it..or by something specifically with the OW/OM) this is their 'bottom'..and until then..the vicious back and forth of no contact...then contact..no contact..and much of the 'waffling' I see from your WS's has to do with the fact that they have not hit their bottom. Until they do, they are not motivated long enough or well enough to stay 'clean' for enough time to return to the decent person that you thought you married.

I'm sorry if I'm not making sense here. I was wanting to share some insights into some of the thought processes of a person with an addictive personality and this is not necessarily the case with EVERY WS. I hope I haven't made things more confusing. Again, as with nothing in life, this is not cut-and-dried....maybe I'm wrong..the more I learn..the less I know..LOL.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Regards,

YR

Brat ~

Here's the problem with trying to meet an addicts needs. Say for example every morning, you cook 2 scrambled eggs for his breakfast. The addict will complain that he hates scrambled eggs. So...being an accomodating spouse...you soft-boil those eggs the next morning. Better? Noway. Soft-boiled eggs are awful (never mind that in the past he's professed to love them). So what do you do? Well the next morning you fry them. Ugh, he says. Why did you fry them? I didn't want fried eggs this morning!

So in frustration, the next morning...you give him one of each. And rather than hold you in suspense, I can assure you, that he'll still moan and complain. It won't be right!

What's the problem? Are you an awful spouse? Or is it that the addict is unhappy, miserable and in pain and is busy searching for ANY reason outside of himself to blame? Because as long as he can focus outwards, and not look inside himself, he will.

Alot of this applies to WSs too...not just alcoholics. Affairs are simply yet another addiction and the poster above was correct..these addictions do seem to crop up in pairs or more.

The problem with an alcoholic is that you can not possibly meet the alcoholic's emotional needs. Plan A and EN meeting works in a health INTERDEPENDENT relationship - instead of a co-dependent relationship that usually develops in an addiction situation.

Instead of calling Steve Harley - I'm going to suggest that you go to Al-Anon, and also that you pick up Melody Beatties book "Codependent No More" and explore the reasons why you were/are attracted to an alcoholic.

You probably are too rigid and controlling. Thats what happens to spouses of alcoholics. It's ok, Al-Anon will fix you right up if you work it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you, all, for your wonderful insights. I think WH is making progress because he is now admitting he abuses alcohol (will not say he is an alcoholic) and, yesterday, said that he now knows that he cannot have even one drink because it will lead to 10. He still will not go to AA because he says he has nothing in common with "those people." Hopefully, his C will have success convincing him otherwise. It is not my place to do that.

As for me, I have been going to Al-Anon for several months now and participate in online meetings, as well. I just finished reading CoDependent No More for a second or third time and am working on myself. I am much more at peace with the situation knowing what my C told me and what all of you have said...I no longer feel threatened by OW's existence and feel free to be me again.

I believe that the last time WH went on a roll and called OW and she bought him an airline ticket to England and he didn't go might have been the final straw for the A (she has done that 4 or 5 times for him now and each time he doesn't go). WH is being more loving, attentive, kind, etc. and is really showing an interest in our M and family again. Then, again, maybe it has nothing to do with whether or not A is still going on....maybe it's because he isn't drinking to extreme 7 days a week anymore - he's cut back to only 2....

Brit's Brat

Oh BB, {{{{{{{{{{{BB}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}},

I am so sorry, and yes, I relate so much to the drunken ness and the drinjking and the running back to the store to get more beer even... SAD. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Anyway, you must work on the first 2 steps... I know you are... you cannot fix it, and you ddint cause it, and you must let go and let your higher powere deal with it. I too have been criticized for being a good mom.

I have been criticized for everything int he world... because ws is looking to me for the reason o f his turmoil and mistakes, and misery... the JOB situation is one in itself... he doesnt want to wor k and tried to get certified not to and get paid... - something is wrong... I know you know.

He does need help, but only HE can decide to do this... so unfortunate. I too, tried avoiding my ws when he drank and etc. Would not get romantic with a drunk, etc.. WEll he found women who would... And my drinking days used to be a lot heavier.. I wonder is that why? he loved me... I used to participate? and mom's dont?

I dont know... but I never knew when I married the drinking would be this bad.. and also-

with parenthood.. you have to be a prent... well at least one of you, and you are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Hey, email me if you can... sometime.. I lost your contact info so heres my work email.. will come back later to erase- hugs, HOney

<small>[ September 05, 2002, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

<small>[ September 05, 2002, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>