Went nosing through TOW site. Didn't post anything, just read to try and understand some more about infidelity.

www.gloryb.com for those who don't know what I'm talking about.

This isn't a rant/vent...just a sad observation. There was such a callous attitude by many of these individuals. They didn't care who they hurt. They just wanted what they wanted, when they wanted it. Boundaries meant nothing, committment meant nothing, trust was a debateable (sp??) notion. There didn't seem to be any insight or understanding into their own behaviours. All in all it was a depressing 'surf'. I hate it that there are people out there who so selfishly disregard other's feelings and focus solely on what's good for themselves.

I know I shouldn't get upset about this, but I do. Anyone else feel that way?

<small>[ September 05, 2002, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

I have gone to that site a few times myself. I always find myself getting so angry by what I see there. You are so right when you say they don't seem to care who they hurt as long as they get what they want. I find myself wondering what is wrong with these people, how could they be so heartless. They know what they are doing is wrong, I know that they are not alone, it takes two. I just don't understand a person who would have a relationship knowing that they are hurting a wife/husband at home.

They actually DON'T feel that what they are doing is wrong...because most feel that either it's only a matter of time before they're together (they think they're rescuing the MM from his horridly boring or evil wife) or they don't want anything but something on the side and see it as "what she doesn't know won't hurt her" kind of thing. Little do they know how much it really does hurt a marriage. I think you have to get your mindset in to a "me me me, I deserve this" kind of deal in order to knowingly pursue this type of relationship.

i've been over there also... i see the same thing over there that i see over here... pain... pain... pain...

oaktown...

I find many TOW, who are early in their affair with a MM, to be tediously shallow and short-sighted. ("I feel" "I feel" "I feel")

I find many TOW, who are late into their affair with a MM, to be addicted to their cycle of pain-joy-pain-joy. (Why is he waiting so long to divorce her? I love him so much, he's worth waiting for.)

I find many TOW to be gullible victims of their own denial .. who hold fantasy romantic relationship ideals above their own best interests ... as well as above their own moral code. (We are soulmates. We were meant to be together. His wife will be better off with someone else who is her soulmate)

The ones who bother me the most ... are the ones who assume that his kids will be better off with their father married to her .... that one makes me go for a walk muttering to myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I also remind myself that my H was a OM as well as a WH. If I get too angry at TOW ... I have to check myself and my motives .... cuz I forgave my WH .... and he is no better than the OW.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

At first, I was furious when I browsed over there. Then I decided that what they really need is prayers. If they actually live their whole life with no morals or decency, I'd hate to be them on the judgement day. Pure selfishness. The one who's sleeping with the priest is the most interesting of all. She actually said she knows her kids will accept him as their stepfather! But she's waiting for her sick husband to die first. How noble!

I know that they truly believe that what they are doing is ok...but it is such a twisted way of viewing the world that it can be shocking to many.
It is also bizarre to me that they believe the OP can never cheat on them because they knew up front the OP was married! What kinda thinkin' is that??? Have you ever come across something so bizarre that it was almost unbelieveable??? That is how I see this site! It's kinda like a carnival side show...'the lizard man' or 'the bearded lady' kind of thing...a gross aberation of the norm!

Why do any of you bother going to that site? You probably won't learn anything that you haven't already learned on here. A's are based on pure selfish emotional hunger. Why pour salt into that wound?

Besides... the A's aren't really the issues anyways. These OP's are merely just symptoms, not the causes of our marital problems.

JMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Karen

As I said, I wanted to learn more, both sides of the story. Education isn't always about what we want to hear. We learn from the ugly and bad things as well. I've learned a tremendous amount from the MB site...but, only one perspective. The other side offers another, very aberrant perspective. Or, look at this way...wasn't it Tsun Tsu who said something about knowing thine enemy?? MC has taught me that an A is just a symptom but...the more informed you are about an issue the better the choices you make are! I don't think I'm a glutton for punishment (maybe I am!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), I just like to clearly understand things.

<small>[ September 05, 2002, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

Re: Boundaries meant nothing, commitment meant nothing, trust was a debatable (sp??) notion.

Yep… until it applies to them. Then they expect boundaries, commitment and trust. Kind’a sad if you ask me.

Yes there is pain in both places. But the difference is that the pain is of their own making. They are in a situation of their own choosing. I have little sympathy for them.

Okay, (rant/vent) I'VE just spent an hour on the most depressing website of all time.... (TOW)

The reason I started posting here at MB is because of my best friend's affair.

She has said from day one of our friendship that talking about her alcoholic H is off limits. I mean, she said flat out that if I said anything about his extreme case that would be the end of our friendship.

So, fast forward 8 years. I get a phone call from her, and if any of you checked out the stories part of TOW, that's basically what I heard.

I, in fact, now hate the word "soul-mate"...

I never realized it, but an A hurts everyone involved. Family, friends, kids (probably the most)...

Well, if there's anything I am afraid of more than an A for my M, I can't think of it... My family of origin was ripped apart by an A, and so was my H's.

So, I've been here ever since, posting, and trying to make sense of life, marriage. Last I talked to her, she's moving in with new guy.

Lovely.

My last post about it, I was asking myself if I needed to do plan b with my own friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anyway, thanks for linking the site, gave me an glimpse into something that I thought would be unfamiliar, but turns out I hear from my friend weekly. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Over and Out,
bbs

I've spent a little time over there myself. I think the biggest joke is that they actually have the nerve to ask for donations!

That being said, once in a while you will see someone actually giving good advice to a poster. It usually gets ignored completely, though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>I also remind myself that my H was a OM as well as a WH. If I get too angry at TOW ... I have to check myself and my motives .... cuz I forgave my WH .... and he is no better than the OW.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thank you pepperband... i could not agree with you more...

my husband asked me what i thought should happen to the om... how should he be delt with... i told my husband (and i stand by it) that whatever happens to him should happen to me too...

the om didn't have a gun to my head... i'm the one who had vows with my husband not the om... so whatever punishment he receives i think my own should be greater...

om/ow are human... they deserve forgiveness too...

oaktown...

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: oaktown ]</small>

Yes, the WS and the OP deserve forgiveness. I don’t think anyone here would argue with that. Isn’t that what we are all here doing… learning to forgive, move on and have loving marriages. I do believe that there are hundreds of people here who have learned or are in the throws of learning this.

That is not the same as watching people in the middle of an affair purposely hurting others and then acting as through they are the victims. What people are talking about is what the OW on TOW are doing while they are in their affairs. That is totally different and very hard to watch. To read of someone plotting of how to break up a family and even get the children away from there mother is gut wrenching. That hurts me to my core. I do not have to like it. I don’t and I will speak up against it every chance I get just I would speak up against any harm I see anywhere. It is my moral responsibility.

It is not my place to forgive every WS/OP in the world. I have forgiven my husband and all of his OW. Forgiveness can only truly begin when a person realizes the error of their ways, repents and starts to make amends.

wow.... just had a look at the site for the first time. it's a fcuking parallel universe that's what it is.
I discover such a seductive egoistic logic in the posts I've read, along the line of "come on, you deserve better, dump her/him, win him/her over, screw the rest".
Pretty cruel, but then, that's the human race for you.

Nick the Sad Philosopher
(maybe "Nick the sad bsatard" would be more appropriate?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Topie25
Member # 9885 posted September 05, 2002 11:10 PM
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Why do any of you bother going to that site? You probably won't learn anything that you haven't already learned on here. A's are based on pure selfish emotional hunger. Why pour salt into that wound?

Besides... the A's aren't really the issues anyways. These OP's are merely just symptoms, not the causes of our marital problems. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you Karen.........about pouring salt on an old wound, for those that haven't come to terms with their spouses affair. I also agree that the affair and the OP aren't the real issues, just symptoms.

For those that haven't come to terms with their spouses affair I would suggest staying away from TOW.

I post there on occasion. I followed a fellow MB'er here.

I have come to terms with my xWH's affair....not to say that some things that I read on TOW don't hurt....they do, but not to the point that they used to.

I think what the BS needs to remember that TOW on that site are NOT TOW in our particular cases.

I think that the BS also needs to remember that we do support a number of WS's on this site.......and there are also people on TOW that do not want to be in the position that they are in. That's why they are there.......which in turn is why we are here. There is not much difference between the one at TOW that doesn't want to be in that position....and the one that comes here.....they are posting the same thing...just at different sites. BUT...because they are posting on a site called TOW they are seen in a different light.

Yes....some of them are brutally honest about their views on affairs.....but that is not how EVERYONE feels about it.

Funny how we as BS's tend to demean TOW more than our own WS's......when our WS's are the ones that are hurting us more than anyone else.

TOW didn't put a gun to my H's head and MAKE him have an affair. IT was HIS choice to make....they share the choice of having the affair equally......but my H holds ALL the responsibility for hurting me.

I've also visited the TOW site just to see how these OPs feel about their actions because of the OWs's attitudes when my WH terminated his A. Obviously, they think that they're entitled to their relationship. They think that they're helping our WSs who are so miserable in their Ms. Of course, they're not happy with theirs either. It seems the common excuse is neglect on their partner's part. They tried their best to hold on to the relationship regardless of the heartache it causes. When my WH told them that he wanted to end the A, they insisted on continuing the relationship just "as friends", and when he refused they became indignant. One of them even became obnoxious when she found out that my WH had given me access to his e-mail account. Another one asked him to come to her first when he's ready to have an A again. Don't these people have any moral values, conscience or pride? I want to be able to forgive these OWs but I find it hard to do when they have these attitudes.

All I know is that every time I've gone there and read, it just triggers awful things for me...I don't think there's any insight to be had by hearing those stories. There doesn't seem to be much introspection into what they are doing, right & wrong, nothing like that...just how to hold on to the MM or MW, and the "unfairness" of it all...a major Hyper-Blue-Meanie trigger-generator!

Oaktown~

In my vivid imagination, I would dream up vicious revenge senarios to inflict shame and pain upon OW. Then, I would imagine the OW's H doing the exact same thing to shame and pain my WH. It kept me humble (well ... mostly humble LOL)

I wonder about this comment, however: "om/ow are human ... they deserve forgiveness too ...

I am not sure I would choose the word "deserve" ...To me, the word "deserve" implies something earned or owed. I don't think that forgiveness is earned ... it is a gift, pure and simple, a gift. But, semantics aside, forgivness is a good thing all around. For those giving and for those receiving. Forgiving someone who is not repentant and clearly not sorry for their wrongful deeds is beyond difficult ... nearly "too Godly" a tast to ask of us mere mortals.

Forgiving the unrepentant requires more faith than a newly betrayed spouse can muster (most of the time). It may be possible years later, when the wounds are not so fresh. Do not expect your BH to forgive the OM any time soon. He is not required to do so. But it is in your BH's best interest to do so.

Have a great day Oaktown.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

okay...okay...okay...

I could not resist checking out that site because I had a hard time believing that people would actually form a support system for immoral behavior. Some of them were claiming their right to be the "slut queen" based on how fast they jumped to do the deed with the OP!?!?!

Can you imagine Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy (if they were still living) forming the same type of forum so that they could compare notes????

Wow....really boggles the mind.