I haven't seen anything that specifically addressed some of my concerns so here I go:

I had an EA with OW on the internet. My DW discovered it and, after a month when we had both gone to the pastor for counseling I ended the affair. But for months afterward I felt so guilty that I was afraid to say or do much of anything to "fix" things because I was afraid my DW would just regard everything cynically and chalk it up to guilt. I did not get counseling and had not yet read SAA or HNHN. So I was basically walking in the dark and hoping things would get back to normal.

In May of this year I went back on the internet--once--and sought the OW out again. I made the excuse to myself that it was just because I was curious and was wondering if she was up to her old tricks with anyone else. But as I sat in front of that screen I realized that I wouldnt be doing this if my wife were there, that it was wrong and I left w/o talking to anyone. But my DW--being much more computer saavy than I--searched the history and found out about my regression and announced that our M was over.

At that point I started going to an individual Christian therapist, read SAA and HNHN (amongst many other titles) and tried to regain her trust by following the Four Rules. apologizing to FIL, MIL, our children and my side of the family.
None of this helped (even though she admitted she had noticed the changes) and My DW and DD moved 500 miles away on 8/16/2002.

BTW, during a talk when I was revealing my personal history to her, she told me about her past--in several abusive foster care families--and her resulting trust issues with almost everyone.

This separation time that she initiated was supposed to be for me to found out "what I really want" and for her to think things through. But this last weekend (10/11-13) a new wrinkle occurred. She was living with a girlfriend, her parents and their son but the son has turned out to be so verbally abusive to everyone (including his own family) that my DW asked me to bring my DD home with me, which I have. My DW says she will be back in a month after she fulfills some obligations to the parents there. But that this is not a reconciliation--just a time to figure out her next move (with my DD). Hopefully much closer this time.

I'm still seeing my therapist, I've teamed up with my best friend--a Christian buddy since college. I have had several heart to heart talks with my DD who wanted to ask "why" but was afraid to and I do sense a growing reconciliation there. But just yesterday my wife said she has lost hope.

I know that my EA crushed her more than I will ever know, I've tried to practice the Four Rules faithfully, and I'm frankly at the end of my rope. I can't envision life without her, I know God has forgiven me and even my DW says she has too but she just can't open her heart back up to the risk of that pain again.

I realize that only God can truly heal the pain that I have caused and that she is the one who has to choose to love again. But I feel so helpless. I still struggle with the guilt of what I did and the pain I caused her.

What else do I need to do for her, for me, our family, especially when she comes back in November/December?

Sorry this is so long but I'm afraid I've even left out much more that I feel could shed more light.

Here are somethings to start with. They are the things that my FWS and I did that have saved our marriage after his affairs. Like your affair, his were internet affairs too.

Start by following the MB concepts
The rules of time, care, protection and honesty,
Fill in and work on the personal history, emotional needs, love buster and recreational needs questionnaires
Then live by them

You will have to earn back your trust…

A couple is more likely to stay married when the WS answers the BS’s questions about the affair.

-----59% of those who refused to answer questions were still married (and together)
-----86% of those whose partner answered all their questions were still married (and together)

You will have to be brave about this. But tell her that you will answer any and all questions she has about the affair. She will need to not love bust about your answers so that you can feel safe about talking. But this is the quickest way to recovery. In my case my WS answered my questions over and over and over. We discussed it daily for 3 months, at the end of that time I could not think of any questions to ask. Since them I’ve come up with something once every month or two. D-day was 3/21/01. His doing this helped me rebuild my love and respect for him.

We had an agreement that if I asked something for which the answer would be very hurtful that he would tell me only after warning me and asking if I really wanted to know. I stayed away from the most intimate details… cannot handle them. Some people want to know it all. It’s your wife’s call.

Be radically honest with her at all times. There should be no privacy in marriage. Live by this. My H and I both live by both of these rules now. At first I was afraid that it would be stifling… but I find it to be liberating. I have nothing to hide, nor does he. Tell your wife that she is welcome to snoop on you at all times, anytime.

Tell her that she may put a keystroke monitoring software on your computer. This is a huge deterrent. My H and I both use it now (www.iopus.com).

Give her the names of all your chat/email/phone/etc accounts and the passwords. Again we have an open policy that both of us share this info now.

I'll post more as I think of them.

Thanks for the quick response, zorweb.

I've done most of what you listed (and I'll go back through the Four Rules again), but now DW says she doesn't want to see any more phone bills, check the computer etc. She says the problem is no longer with me--it's with her--she says she's "changed" now--she isn't sure she ever wants to put herself in a position of being hurt that much again. I don't blame her for that.

In fact I really don't blame her for anything--I mean I was the one who was distant--I wasn't meeting her needs--and she was able to remain faithfull. Who am I kidding--why should she ever want to come back to me?

Yeah, yeah, I know, the old self pity monster just showed up. I'm sorry, but sometimes I still look back on my actions this past year and just shake my head. Gotta stay focused on the present--and on what she needs now.

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: lostinsimi ]</small>

Are you telling us that you have tried in no way to romance your wife back to you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Let me tell you something, as a BS, if my H had not bought me roses, cried on his knees begging me to stay, taken me on dates, taken me away for weekend getaways, taken me to movies, bought me a 2 carat diamond ring, bought me a new sports car, started helping with chores around the house, held me tenderly, etc we would probably not be together today. I hope I misunderstood what you said about just hoping things would go back to normal without much effort. Because it is only through your efforts that she's going to see your sincerity. If you've done nothing, then in her eyes, you must not be wanting to change or to keep her. No you don't have to do everything I listed above, and yes some of those were more effective than others, but you DO have to show that you want her back!! Just this weekend, 10 months after D-day, my H showed up with a single rose and the Kenny Rogers CD "She rides wild horses." On that CD is his song with the final chorus that says these words:

"So I bought her a rose,
On the way home from work,
To open the door to a heart that I hurt..."

He played it for me and looked into my eyes for the whole song. When it got to the line "to open the door to a heart that I hurt," he broke out in tears. To me, that's sincerity.

Of course he's also done things right in regard to his A and the OW. - which in an of itself is probably the most important part to the recovery process.

Thank you jamup for your reply.

No, in fact I have talked to her, bought her flowers, helped around the house, cried with her, gone out on dates with her. She has even commented, "oh, so now you've finally figured it out". But, yes it did take me a long time to figure it out. (My time frame is in the profiles post). She moved 500 miles away after I started "figuring it out" and this made it really difficult to show her my sincerity on a daily basis. She believes I'm sincere but the issue (as she has put it) is not with me any more but is that she still doesn't feel like she can open up her heart to being hurt again. So the trust issue is the big factor.

She has also said how worthless she feels and that everything she's done in life has been wrong. I've talked to her at length about those feelings. I sent her one e-mail a day that listed a different character trait or attribute that I loved about her--I did this for the past two months and although she says she appreciates the "kind words" she says she could argue the point on each one. I have sent her flowers while she was gone, I have sent her cards and spoken with her on the phone at least once a week for at least a half hour to 1-1/2 hours. So my difficulty has been trying to show her from 500 miles away that I do care and want her back.

Now, because of recent circumstances she will be coming back down in a month or so to try to regroup and figure out what her next move is going to be. As I said before, hopefully it won't be another 500 mile move. If she's closer then it will make it a lot easier to show her on a daily basis that I am sincere, that I am still in counseling, that I am still partnering with my friend to hold me accountable, what my daily activities are and hopefully, as you say, "romance" her a little more.

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: lostinsimi ]</small>

Lostinsimi,
I can relate on the showing you care from afar. I am in the same boat. You can only do what you can do. Hopefully you W will respond, but don't expect to much to soon. She is obviously deeply hurt. Having this happen to you really changes everything in your life. I will take awhile for her to trust. All you can do is show you are sincere.

BTW are you in Simi Valley? I grew up in Thousand Oaks.

Good luck to you.

Ute

Hi uteconf footballwidow, and thanks for the reply.

"Yes" to Simi question.

Yeah that seems to be what most people are saying about time needed for trust to be regained. I 've been so worried about her being so far away that I would not have the luxury of time. I mean, since one of the key factors in the "Love Bank" idea is that anyone can make deposits I was afraid that someone else would be making them while I had very little opportunity to. But with the development of her moving back to the area I'm still hopeful. I realize that it could be many months before she begins to open up again, but I've spent a lot of time in prayer and counseling and I am committed to being her husband and friend. I know it's in God's hands and that I have to trust in Him no matter what. But I also realize that I have a lot to learn--and I'm hopeful, as jamup, says that I will have more frequent opportunities to "romance" her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: lostinsimi ]</small>

I commend you for continuing to try and make things right. I believe that with patience and love, you will reconcile. I posted the name of this book on another thread, and I admit I have a bias toward reading to help me with problems--I relate to Spacecase, but a book that I read has really helped me in moving forward in forgiving my WS--"Forgive for Good" by Fred Luskin. Maybe you could read it and try to share some of it, bit by bit with your W? These things take time and she is still in the grieving process for all that has been lost. She will eventually come to acceptance and become more open to all of your efforts. Take care.

Thanks for your response, Anne 6263. All of these replies mean a lot to me..thanks to all.

And thank you for the book title...(I work for a "major" national bookseller--I can get it for 30% off...lol).

And yes I am hopeful, too. I know that God is good and he loves us both very much and wants to fulfill our every need and all we have to do is stop keeping him at arms length. That has been a hard lesson for me to learn, and I know it will be hard for her to learn too. But you know what? She is a lot more insightful than I am. That's one of her amazing gifts from God, and I know He's working on it right now. I love her so much, I gotta go now, I need to hold her up in prayer right now.

Thanks for the post, Anne.

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: lostinsimi ]</small>

So my DW called tonight and I could tell she was feeling down so I asked her how she was feeling--she says she felt like she wasn't needed by our D-13. I told her no way--she needed her and so did I. But she didn't answer.

So we just talked about how she spent her day. I asked her if she needed any $ and she said no I had already done enough for her when I was up last weekend. I don't know how to cheer her up when she gets down like this. I just try to keep the conversation light although I still send her e-mails and tell her how much I miss her and love her. That we both need her.

I realize that some of you posters aren't Christians but I'd appreciate your thoughts if not your prayers. And for the brothers and sisters in Christ, I definitely covet your prayers. I know God can work a miracle in our lives, but we can't put a timetable on it. I guess I'm a little down right now, knowing how low she feels. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thanks for listening.

I just finished reading "Every Man's Battle" and at the end it talks about Cherishing your wife. It really struck home:

..."your wife is your precious one, your only one. She lives with you and lies in your arms. She is to be cherished, not because of what she does for you, but because of her essence, her value to God as a child born in His image. You've been entrusted with the priceless essence of another human soul, so precious to God that at the foundation of the world He planned to pay His dearest price to buy her back again.
"Regardless of the current rubble in your marriage or the list of unmet conditions, you owe God to cherish that essence. When you look deeply enough into your wife's eyes, past the pain and the hurts and the fights, you can still find that little ewe lamb gazing back, hoping all things and trusting all things."

God, I wish she could know the feelings that brought up in me. (Yes. I wrote her and told her, but to her my words are just more words right now. And I just wish she could feel what I feel).

Back to my knees.

Hi, Just wanted you to know, I can see and sense your pain... for one you can't sleep and are up reading books.. looks like it anyway, maybe you are in another timezone... but... anyway.

I am hoping I can bring myself out of a depression. I am overwhelmed by all I have to do before me... messy house.. needing to work fulltime and part time job.

My ws, is now going broke and showing signs of missing his life... so I am in h ope he will come back to his senses... and want his life back with me and the boys again.

It has been one horrible yr. My self esteem has been so beaten down and I have tried so hard to just get by... exist, and somehow function that it has been difficult.. I am not really myself right now after this long hard yr.

I look aroun d my messy house and say who lives here? So I have been up cleaning myself.. couldnt sleep and decided to clean.. there is so much in this depressed persons house to do it drives me crazy.

I am trying to put one foot in front of the other and go through things one at a time...

Now, sorry to go off subject on your thread.. must be the lack of sleep... I am considering back to bed for a couple of hours.. if I could get to sleep... Having lots of trouble with that.

Well, I do think your wife feeling down, bad as that may be is a good sign. I think she may come around if you keep believing and showing her the truth of your love.

I am doing this to my ws and he is coming around, it is very difficult when he continues to tell me how bad I am... but I can get through this, and be thebigger person... now I am not even the ws, but I did some terrible things to my h.. not that he did not do any.. but he wont let go of what I did....

ANyway.. I am tired and will go now... Show her you love her as much as she will let you. Pray and work on yourself.

You are doing the right things, I hope you can keep the faith, that is what it takes.

Hugs, HONEY

Thanks for the reply Honey.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you can keep the faith, that is what it takes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I went back to church for the first time in a year today. The Pastor's message was "Bringing Back the Banished". How is that for irony? The point was that God doesn't suspend justice for the banished--that would make Him a bad judge--he satisfies it by putting the punishment for our sins on Himself--on Christ. So your quote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Show her you love her as much as she will let you. Pray and work on yourself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">has a lot of meaning to me. I know that even though she is 500 miles away from me, God is right there with her and He is doing the work of drawing her to himself, for healing and forgiveness. Not that I don't get down every now and again, but I can really see His hand in all this over the past few months. I'm still hopeful.

And my thoughts and prayers are with you too, Honey, that God will do the work of conviction and repentance in your H's life. And that He will give you peace and strength and assurance and a good night's sleep.

Blessing on you and yours.

You know, I saw so many wonderful things over this past week that I should have expected an attack from the enemy. For the last two days I've been experiencing really heavy guilt over my past actions--thoughts like "Why should she ever come back to you after what you did", "How could you do that to her", "Some Christian you are", "Oh sure you're forgiven, but you're never going to see her again".

I've heard that after blessings sometimes we are attacked and I recognize it for what it is, but right now, knowing that doesn't seem to help. Just another pity-party I guess. I've lost my focus over the past two days, thinking about myself and not her and her needs.

Another thing, should I tone down the level of contact I have with her via e-mail? I write her every day--just telling her what's going on, what I'm learning, that I miss her and love her...

I mean, her move was an effort to get away and time for herself...am I putting too much pressure on her...intruding...by telling her I miss her and love her? This is how I feel but is this a way of me focussing on my pain and not her needs? I don't want her to think that I'm losing interest or that I don't still care for or love her.

I asked her in an e-mail two days ago to tell me if I was bothering her by writing every day, sending her a card or a flower once in a while. She hasn't written back. (Of course she may not have even read the e-mail yet).

Just feeling down and a little lost right now. Thanks for letting me vent.

What is a DD and a DW?

DD=darling daughter
DW=darling wife

Sorry, I thought I saw those acronyms somewhere; I can adjust my profile if this is confusing/incorrect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />