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I was in a meeting today and all of a sudden, my mind snapped. My H is in an apartment, having an affair and he's been out for more than a year. We have lost SO much. He has LOST it!! I'm convinced. Will he ever find it?
Have things changed about the way he feels?
Absolutely not. It's hard not to look at the writing on the wall. Or perhaps, I keep bumping into it and don't change direction.
Is he reluctant to go legal? Absolutely. Is it because he's unsure? Who knows. Is it because he fears losing everything? He's not scared of losing me, that's for sure.
He's so SURE and has been sure for very long time.
Something has to change.
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Wow! I had to double check who's post I was reading, because the poster is so STRONG!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So today is one of your "lightbulb moment" days. What is it that YOU want to do now? What has Steve suggested to you? Karen
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Terrified,
maybe it's time to make a move. What do you have? You don't have a marriage, or an H. There is not much to lose, in terms of divorce.
I don't know what Steve H (aren't you counseling with him???) is recommending, but at some point (maybe not yet) you will be ready to move on. Maybe that's when H will have his wake-up call, or maybe not.
Wishing you strength.
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I know about the one yr snap, but hold on... read goin crazies story.. she after 20 mnths had dinner with her h and his dad tonight.
My h is starting to show some signs of less fog... so is yours.. mowing the yard. I think he is realizing he is messing up, has messed up. GIve it more time. he might have a one yr snap too.
Hugs, HONEY
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Terrified...
I say you don't necessarily go legal at this point...but elusive, strong, and independant...
I say you drop an elusive question about a single friend of yours and his...and just verbally hint about what a nice guy you think he is...
Arrange a dinner party with mutual friends and though it might hurt like he!!...don't invite him...ohh but make sure he knows about it...and that he is NOT invited....
I say you make arrangements to take daughter to HIS place...you bring him a COFFEE...looking fantastic....check his place out saying un interestedly that you were just curious to see exactly how bachelors lived these days...and get the heck out of there...."gotta run dear gotta meet some friends..."
Terri,
use words that define his actions since he is sooo far removed from his actions...
tell him you were thinking about joining a parents with out partners group...so you both could meet some new people...and maybe learn ways to help daughter 'adjust" to this "new life"
Mention some christmas gift you know daughter would like...and tell him how YOU can't wait to see the look on her face christmas morning...
Have him watch daughter on a certain night...because you are going to "seek council with you priest/minister...just to talk about some things in your life..." (maybe that would be a good thing for you)...maybe you just let him think it is.
I say you go ahead and make arrangements for him to see daughter...and then cancel them about two hours before...telling him something else came up and you two won't be available then...so sorry...but these things sometimes happen and "us two girls do have life to live..." Now be a dear and perhaps we will call tomorrow if available..."
I say you tell husband that you are going away on these dates and you and daughter can be reached by cell phone...and if you don't answer leave a message and you will get back to him when you can...
better yet call him up and tell him you will be out these dates...he will need to pick up daughter at this time...and you should be back at this time...the heck with HIS SOCCER...HIS HOCKEY>>> his blah blah blah blah....
I think that you love bust and tell him clearly that you still believe in your heart that he is a good person...and that you believe that he has shut himself off completely from that person he used to be...but that you believe in him and believe that he can find himself again....that it is your opinion no matter what he says differently that inside he is hurting and you know it...
I think you plan and choose and create your daughter halloween costume with out him...he's not there so do it with out him...that's what happen to adults who abandon their children for an apartment...
I think you let him know now what plans you and your daughter have for halloween and make it clear what times she would be available to do something with him...don't sit quietly and let him call you two days before the holiday and get mad at you because him and his mom and dad feel left out...(and I mean no malice to your inlaws I know you care for them...but HE and THEY must see the reality he is creating...and they support...
Do it with out malice or emotion to the best of your ability...invite him in a little..but not to much....
Remember that sometimes we dig our selves so deep in a hole that we can not see daylight....and that it is possible your husband is just so proud and strong..that he can only keep digging...he may be hoping to reach the other side......throw a couple ropes his way that distract him from digging...and maybe he will stop and think....
We are all here for you...and pulling for ya.
ARK
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YEAH!!! what Ark^^ said!!!!Terri ...."Losing steam and willpower" ... what about getting up every day, putting one foot in front of the other as best you can manage .... hey, that's what we're all doin' anyway! Live your life according to YOUR values and YOUR ethical center. Cultivate your strengths. This is all any of us can ask of ourselves. Have some fun ..... that's what I like about Ark^^'s suggestions ... fun .... full of life. Do not surrender to terror or apathy. Get feisty! What have you got to lose if you act feisty? Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
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I love Ark's suggestions too! It's a great step to show him some consequences!
another idea- if applicable- ask your H a technical question about the internet- how to IM, or use icons. Then if he asks why? just say oh it's so interesting, so much to learn on the internet... (wasn't H's A maintained via e-mail)
also check my response to Jante. It might be on JFO? I think that these WH's love to feel that their BW is just sitting home, keeping the candles burning for them.
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Terri,
I have been hangin out on the emotional needs board & have not checked in here for a long while. I was thinking of you & I did a quick search to get an update - read parts of Thanksgiving thing -- It does not sound like he has changed a bite -- I guess we all did not expect that -- I can see that you are continuing to grow. I feel I am as well. I have had some revalations of sorts.
One thing that has given me some insight is that I have come to realize, as I come out of "denial" in terms of my "co-dependent" habits, that I have lived in an abusive environment.
I thought the following exerts from the Verbalabuse web site migh add some perspective for you!
You have been through a lot -- you must be getting better at setting boundaries! I don't anyone would blame you for ending this madness -- you have done your best - these are his issues -not yours!!
Here is copy:
"Emotional abuse is underneath all other types of abuse - the most damaging aspect of physical, sexual, mental, etc. abuse is the trauma to our hearts and souls from being betrayed by the people that we love and trust."
***
"Our parents were emotionally abused in childhood because their parents were emotionally abused in childhood. Our parents were our role models who taught us how to relate to ourselves and our own emotions."
***
"The most destructive emotional abuse is the emotional abuse we learned to inflict upon ourselves. We formed our core relationship with self in early childhood and have been judging and shaming ourselves ever since. The most destructive thing about the emotional abuse we suffered because our parents were wounded, was that we incorporated the messages we got from their behavior into our relationship with self. We emotionally abuse ourselves on a daily basis."
Emotional abuse is a devastating, debilitating heart and soul mutilation. The deepest lasting wound with any abuse is the emotional wound.
There is not such thing as only being emotionally abused - I have heard many horrifying stories of physical abuse and the most damaging aspect of the physical abuse is the emotional abuse it causes - when we say "I was only emotionally abused" it is the disease minimizing the trauma we experienced. Emotional abuse is underneath all other types of abuse - the most damaging aspect of physical, sexual, mental, etc. abuse is the trauma to our hearts and souls from being betrayed by the people that we love and trust. The other types of abuse can add more levels to the healing necessary but the bottom line is the emotional abuse and it's effect on our ability to Love and trust ourselves. In fact, being only emotionally abused can sometimes make it much harder to get in touch with our issues because it isn't always blatant and obvious. Some of it was very subtle - some of us were abused and shamed by the way they looked at us or said our name or did not see or hear us - on a daily basis.
Robert Burney
Spiritual Teacher, codependence counselor, grief therapist, author. Joy to You & Me Enterprises
****
Take what is helpful & leave the rest.
There is a really good post I have in which someone describes the dynamics of how a co-denpendent, "care-taking" type (like myself, for example) can create all kinds of stress for an abused survivor (someone that is so protective of letting anyone get close, they feel controled or trapped in a sense) -- perhaps your H?
It is kind of lengthy, but I can post or email me & I can pass along. bhurrican@yahoo.com
Anyway, best of luck to you!
Prayers are with you!
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Terri, Here is the link to that post I referred to about Abuse & Co-dependency. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=012339#000001I of course am no Doctor, but from what I read, i your H maybe was not subjected to some kind of abuse, but he sure acts as if he was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> No reason for us to go into any special pyscho analysis on your H - but this could expalin somethings & perhaps validate the fact that you are not respsonable for how badly he treats you! You deserve to be treated with dignity & respect! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
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Hello everyone...wow...I printed this thread out right away so I could refer to it at a moment's notice. Thanks to all of you for replying. Just a brief update, haven't seen him Friday or Saturday. Friday, he dropped off D at my MIL's after daycare. I went to pick her up there. Saturday, he called in the morning. I was getting D ready to go to ballet. We spoke casually. Our neice (my D adores her) was staying with my IL's for the weekend and I mentioned that she would be coming over after D's nap in the afternoon and then staying for supper. He mentioned he had "lots to do"...didn't come over but did call again. I didn't call him although I REALLY wanted to...neice came over. We had a great time playing dressup, painting, making Rice Crispy squares...than my FIL came to pick up my neice at 8:30 and at the same time, one of my best friends knocked at the door with her kids. Really nice...kept me "up" until she left. And then sad again getting D ready for bed. The loneliness...well you guys know. So I'm up and doing laundry, going through the motions...my mind is one place, my body is in another...it's mechanical. I do things without feeling sometimes. Will be going to church with D. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wow! I had to double check who's post I was reading, because the poster is so STRONG!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Topie, Really nice of you...it was only a moment! (LOL) Anyway, Steve told me to continue in Plan A which is what I'm trying to do. Sometimes, it's just a little difficult to feel hopeFUL. Hope you're well. Espoir, Hard to figure out what that move should be but I too, love Ark's suggestions! Honey, Yes, GC's story is amazing and heartwarming! Don't I wish that H will have that snap, crack, BREAK!! Ark, All I can say is WOW...do I LOVE your suggestions, their tone, their spirit, their motivation... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are all here for you...and pulling for ya. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Means so much... Pepper, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do not surrender to terror or apathy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which is what I've done for most of this time. I see myself in my dreams sometimes just hiding... You know what Pepper, I USED to be FEISTY...can you believe that? But you're absolutely right... HH, Was wondering where you were these days...you've given me alot to think about! Hope you're doing well.
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T --
I love ARK's response to you!
This is what I've been promoting to you also.
I don't think Plan B is for you -- I think you to use the 180's! Plan A with an Attitude!
Let's see that FIESTY WOMAN!
Every interaction with H is still Plan A -- but with a twist!
You want that "snap"? I can tell you exactly when it will come. When he FEELS the loss of control!
He's a major controller T. Let another Alpha Male come around! Let him start to see what its going to be like to lose his wife and daughter to another man. A man who could potentially move into his house and be the one who sees D every day. This is what he wants right? For you to move on right?
I don't care if you have to HIRE someone to PRETEND to be your boyfriend! LOL
That is the reality your H needs to see. Then he will snap. His OW lives in another country. The likelyhood of his little fantasy life is REMOTE. Beat him to the punch! You really could have someone new right there under his nose in a matter of days!
I guarantee a reation out of H.
Then when he wants to come back -- its under YOUR conditions.
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Lex, SO good to hear from you. Hope everything is going okay?
I love your suggestion about hiring someone to help me create the illusion...until I can find time to go out there and find the real thing (LOL)! I live in a small city and everyone knows "US", you know what I mean??
Okay, can you do me a favour? Call my home number tonight at 7:30. Then hang up when he answers or if he answers. Either way, he'll be around and I'll make sure he trys to answer. Second favour request, can you call my cell phone number at 8:00 or close to that? I'll make sure he hears it and sees that I don't answer. Only if you can Lex and if you're around.
Now I'm going to work on the rest.
Thanks for your encouragement!
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Lex, SO good to hear from you. Hope everything is going okay?
I love your suggestion about hiring someone to help me create the illusion...until I can find time to go out there and find the real thing (LOL)! I live in a small city and everyone knows "US", you know what I mean??
Okay, can you do me a favour? Call my home number tonight at 7:30. Then hang up when he answers or if he answers. Either way, he'll be around and I'll make sure he trys to answer. Second favour request, can you call my cell phone number at 8:00 or close to that? I'll make sure he hears it and sees that I don't answer. Only if you can Lex and if you're around.
Now I'm going to work on the rest.
Thanks for your encouragement!
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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Gotcha!
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Better yet Terri, Answer the cell phone at 8:00...then take call in other room...close enough to hear things like... you laughing... you saying "yeah HE is here right now but that's not a problem..." "I would love to do that sometime..I hear it's beautiful there...and have always wanted to see it...."..I really will think about it... Talk about some cute thing daughter did...then laugh good heartily... If Lexx is on the other end...I bet you two could milk that call for all it's worth... Then ask him nonchalantly if he has ever been to ________________that someone you know has been saying how nice it is there... Or ask if he remembers the time you two ate or cooked ___________________-say I was thinking about trying to cook that for some friends of mine...... Also make arrangements today/tomorrow that you will be unavailable to watch daughter this weekend or some night this evening......and he needs to step up to plate..."I have plans with some friends of mine...some new interests in some people I've met...." and perhaps even check local papers for some thing happening..or go see a movie...that you can even mention to him what you thought.....don't have to tell him you went alone.... And let him know of a need you have for him to watch daughter in very near future...next weekend that DEFINATELY impeeds on some activity of his...soccor, hockey...(perhaps he should take up boxing...cause I'd love to someone sock him a few times in the old noggin..might knock some sense into him... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But to bad if it causes chaos to his schedule...you terrified have had daughter 24/7 with him continuing to come and go as pleases...time to feel what it's like to HAVE to be there...not just be there when it works for him All with a smile...I totally agree that the OW being in another country makes his whole reality a fantasy....and that you need to make him feel the pinch of what he has chosen....she's not here...but you are....and you my friend...are gonna be OK... ARK
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Hi Terrified, I love the advice you got from ark^^ !!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Fantastic. How about this one: You give me your address and I'll write to you. I'll invite you over to my place for awhile. (I'd just have to change my writing style abit and I'd sign the letter with: Can't wait to see you!!! Your Admirer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) Imagine the look on his face, he'd freak out!!! The stamp on the envelope would be "reality" (from Germany) maybe it would "wack him out!!!!" We'd just have to get him to read this letter (secretely of course!!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Therefore you'd be giving him a taste of his own medicine. You'd be meeting someone in another country too. Then he could really see how that feels. You've got to get him "thinking"....and it's has to be "mysterious". take care bb <small>[ October 21, 2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]</small>
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Starting to think I may have to join you on the illusions T... H does respond quite well the few times he has "wondered" what was up with me.
I hate being a game player, but really... this is getting old being nice to someone who just dumps on you.... you know what I mean. My h is kind one minute and mean the next.
I still know there is hope for both of us.
let me know if you 180! let us all know that is.
Hugs, HONEY
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Ark, LOVE it...ALL of it. I'm on a path...just have to stick with it.
Thank-you SO much.
Blond...do you have an email address where I can email you my address? You suggestion would be SO much fun!
Lex, Thank-you for the other night. YOU'RE AWESOME (betcha your kids tell you that ALL the time!) Although it didn't work technically, it's the start. If you're home, let's try again, same time for both.
Love you guys
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Terrified: <strong> I love your suggestion about hiring someone to help me create the illusion...until I can find time to go out there and find the real thing (LOL)! I live in a small city and everyone knows "US", you know what I mean?? Okay, can you do me a favour? Call my home number tonight at 7:30. Then hang up when he answers or if he answers. Either way, he'll be around and I'll make sure he trys to answer. Second favour request, can you call my cell phone number at 8:00 or close to that? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you guys are on to something here! I like it!! Terri, I remember someone saying that you are an attractive woman. I have a sense you are much to modest to comment on that one & that is OK! I know you are a wonderful woman, genuine, sincere, loving and caring, committed, honest & one with the uptmost integrity. And that you can have fun! You are a sweatheart, I mean it!! I am trying hard to detach. I think I could beneift if I could participate in this exercise!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> -- You would not have to pay me one cent -- Pro Bona !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> How about if someone sent you flowers. Then a box of candy. You could say, "Oh, just somone I met recently ... Nothing Special." You deserve some special attention!! Perhpas someone you met on a business trip. I bet he woulod have some serious questions & you are not obligated to tell him a thing. Answer his questions with questions - why, what does it matter to you? You go girl!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Have some fun!! At your H's expense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> -- he deserves it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I'll do my part, whatever it takes ... just let me know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Love, Bob <small>[ October 23, 2002, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>
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Well Ark...... I like your style! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> T, looks like you are on a roll......becareful but move forward. Let him wonder......good ploy. Just don't over do it, ok? Then he will know it is a show. No you want to keep him guessing. If he grumbles just say.....oh didn't know it bothered you.......then be more quiet. T, the object is to let him reach out to you. Whether he will or not is unknown but this is definitely going to force some changes. T, you are looking stronger...... see you can do it. HH, U sly guy!!??! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Of course I know you have T's best interests at heart. Hugz, L.
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