Just a question, how many of you have the experience of living with a WS who is by nature very flirtatious? Is this a personality disorder that predisposes one to an affair?

My H is very flirtatious yet sees his behavior as being "friendly".

Flirting is defined as "making eye contact with a member of the opposite sex in order to begin a conversation and "get to know one another better". I have always had a very hard time with this behavior. He has been like this since the day we married twenty some odd years ago.

It always bothered me but now since his A I find it intolerable. He claims I am making something of nothing, he is with me, right? Yeah, for the time being, that is true.

Has anyone else experienced this type of "behavior" with a WS?

Incidently, he is unable to change his behavior, it truly is who he is. Sheesh!

Hello...wow, is my H flirt...always has been but he always classified it as being safe and friendly.

Right...

K9love,

Yes, WH could be called a flirt. He just called it being "friendly" or used the excuse that he did it to get what he wanted... One time he smoozed a female car salesperson into a very good price. She kept caling him at work trying to get together. She didn't know that we worked together and I intercepted the calls. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As I'm thinking back, not only would he flirt, but he would ignore me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

D.

k9love
Yes! My WW has always been very 'outgoing' as she like to put it. She's the kind that can meet another kid's father for the first time at a soccer practice and come home and tell me why he and his wife broke up, where his ex lives, what her maiden name was. No lie, this actually happened last year. But it's not just with men, she will talk to ANYONE that she doesn't see as a physical threat to her.
This behavior has driven me nuts for years, but she kept telling me I was overreacting, "Don't be so jealous, I'm not doing anything!" So I started not reacting as strongly. Now looking back on it, there were a couple of times when I was uncomfortable with the way she was acting with the OM, but 'didn't want to overreact' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Oh well, hindsite and all that!

T

Exactly: While they are busy doing their flirting they tend to have antennas only for the other person. Mine is so obvious about it.

They really can't see that what they are doing is "wrong" I heard many times over the years, "I'm not doing anything wrong"

I wonder if this makes it more difficult to trust this type of a WS? I truly am having a lot of difficulty letting go - forgiving- trusting completely again- especially when I didn't care for the personality to start with- I especially find it tormenting now.

hindsight I guess

k9love ,
this is a very interesting question. I would say my WS was" always very flirtatious and said this is only being friendly. hmmmmmmm......
He always told me that he doesn't notice how "woman" react to his behaviour.

After I had found out about his affair we had talked about this. I asked him how he "first" noticed that OW was interested because he had always told me he doesn't see these kinda things.
This was when he admitted, he noticed her interest by eye contact.

So in our situation, he was enjoying the reactions of his "flirtatious" behaviour for a long time throughout our marriage. He has learned that does lead to complications and it's a difference between being "friendly" and "flirting".

This has changed completely now. I didn't pressure, my H has just learned to "draw the line" and make OW realize that he isn't interested. (he had never done that, he didn't want to appear unpolite and he loved the "admiration") But he never realized that this hurt me.

Since he is getting all my attention, he doesn't seem to want any attention from any OW anymore. It actually scares him to death. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
So he now avoids any behaviour that could seem "flirtatious". He saw what it lead to in our situation and he said he NEVER wants this to happen again.

Something interesting has also happened. My H flirts alot with me, mostly when we are someplace public. This seems to "keep other woman" away. they for sure notice it and the other day one woman even told my H that when she saw us, she could see that we really loved each other. He told her: Yupp you're right!!!!
So this was sorta proof for my H that woman do see many things. Woman can for sure feel if a man loves his wife and a woman can also feel if a man is unhappy in his marriage.

It's these signals that a man sends and a woman will notice. She will either see this as a chance and go for it or she will think that she has a chance with this man. It will for sure (for alot of woman) do something within her feelings.
So my H and I have came to the conclusion that if he truely wants to protect our marriage, it is up to him to draw a line and stop his flirting to the extent that he had always did. He should stay friendly, yes but leave it to that.

take care
bb

BlondeBosom: You are so fortunate! If my H were to verbally tell me he saw the danger and actually made an attempt to stop it would do amazing things for our marriage.

As it is- since he sees no danger- no wrong- in what he does- he certainly isn't going to change. I believe my H has a huge need for "ego" stroking. And unfortunately, it does not matter where he gets it stroked-

Honestly he has made some changes- but nothing drastic- nothing that would make me feel secure-
So here it is- I fluctuate between "yep this is gonna work" to "My god, summer can't get here fast enough so I can get out of dodge"

thanks,

Absolutely. It was all about getting a huge ego stroked and there is nothing like loads of female attention to do that. And yes, he would very pointedly ignore me so he could get that attention. All of it happened at work.

My XW was a HUGE flirter. She was the kind who always like to hang out with all her male friends at the local gin mill having them ooooo and aaah over her. She always let me know how wonderful I was for not getting jealous and letting her be herself, and how good I was for her.

And yes, she could always tell me about everyone's business and why damn near every couple she knew should not be married, but that she "was so lucky to have me".

I have read extensively about NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and HPD (histrionic personality disorder) and have found it informative in my case. However, I tend not to hang my hat on any of this although those who were close to us and particularly close to her tell me she fits these to a tee.

Catamount: Wow, what similarities- my H actually would come in and tell me how fortunate we were to have the relationship we had- how lucky he was that I trusted him- (so he could come and go as the need for "destressing" took place- generally out of town- overnight) How wonderful I was and how special our relationship was. Puke- this was DURING his affair. This makes is that much harder to "trust again"-

Thanks for the insight on the personality disorders- I shall read up on them-

Can;t say I am surprised- found a web site that gave you a test for personality disorders- I filled his out- after 22 years I feel I know him well enough to answer those questions- He too scored HIGH in both NPD and HPD- hmmmmmm, what a coincidence.

Well, here's a twist for ya - I've frequently been accused of being a "big flirt" - but I didn't have the affair.

Hmmmmmmmm - maybe I have a personality disorder?

Maybe being in some sorta denial like your WSs, I don't consider myself to be a flirt - "just friends!!!!!!" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, maybe there're degrees of flirtaciousness. Maybe there's a big wide blurry line between being friendly and flirting. I like my beer, but I'm not an alcoholic. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

OK, grill me. I don't mind. BTW, you look realllllllly maaaaavelous today! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Even before my H confessed to his As, I grew to hate social events, as he would invariably spend the time establishing 'intimate conversations' with women - never the young, pretty ones, but usually older, rather plain ones. Often I could see that the woman was quite uncomfortable with his attention, but he seemed oblivious to that himself. I used to complain about his behaviour, and he said that he just liked women better than men. Now, I realise that he was stoking what I think of as a 'black book' mentality, subconsciously sniffing for opportunities that he might take up in the future.

I think that's what flirting is - an addictive behaviour designed to protect the 'supply' of people who may be called on to meet illicit needs. What I don't think flirters recognise is that their behaviour repels people much of the time - balanced people with healthy self-esteem can detect that the 'attracted' signals are not consistent with how well the flirter knows them, so they can see that it's opportunistic and false. But it's worth the flirter's effort, for the few occasions when the victim is needy and vulnerable, and eager to interpret the interest as real.

Flirting also seems to me to be the kind of infidelity that people know they can get away with right under their spouse's nose...'it's just the way I am...I like talking to women, they're less aggressive...it means nothing..' Nothing, my a**s. It means "I'm a selfish creep with huge insecurities and a desperate need to feel attractive, no matter how much effort I have to make to get it. The fact that it p****s you off just gives me a greater feeling of power and desirability."

Flirting is not innocent.

K9,

What an interesting topic! My H is a natural born flirt. During counseling with SH we've addressed this quite a bit and I've taken some great notes.

In MB terminology the way SH puts it is that H has a knack for showing women in general his great ease in meeting emotional needs. Conversation is the key here. My H is great at showing women that he can fulfill their need for conversation.

It's become part of his recovery plan to be consciously aware of what he's doing. What SH has asked him to do to bring this out of his sub-conscious is to every chance he gets when he around women - think about what he feels their emotional needs are - THEN NOT MEET THEM!!!

It's not been as easy for H to work this part of his plan because he has a lifetime of flirting to overcome. Most of the time - I wouldn't even say he overtly flirts; but the result is the same. He draws women like a magnet. CSue

Flirting just being friendly? BS, I've been hurt more times than I can say over his flirting and embarrassed as though I was nothing. The weird thing is I'm usually much better looking than the ones he flirts with!When I asked him to stop he has told me I've stiffled his personality and he can't be himself. So he is not happy! Well, his A last year was with a pig! Go figure. No, next time he flirts and hurts me in front of my face, I intend to embarrass him good and let him see how it feels. I intend to laugh and look right at the woman and tell her to ignore him as that is all he can do anymore.LOL That she's safe from any sexual harrassment. Ought to make his face turn ten shades of red? Ya think? Lou Lou

If he's anything like my H he won't be embarrassed. He'd like the joking and kidding- makes em feel appreciated- or rather like they are the prize at the end of some contest.

Thanks for your replies- for those of you who are married to someone who is honestly making an attempt to change this behavior I wish you the very best. I know without a doubt mine would not do that for me- you see I am the one with a problem Not him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I guess I have to face the inevitable- I am married to someone who doesn't love me as much as he loves himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Later

I don't know if I would call it a personality disorder. My W however, is a constant "flirt". It is just part of her personality. It always bothered me, but since her A's, I also find it intolerable. I have talked to her about it and told her how I feel and I must say she has taken me seriously. She still flirts, but nowhere near the degree she used to.

Scanning the different boards I found this post very interesting. MY WH has always been a big flirt, it was one of the things that drew me to him. Looking back over the past few years, he has had very few good male friends, but a lot of women friends, primarily women he worked with. He can't get that ego boast from another guy, only a woman can supply that need. Even his daughters have mentioned how he has this thing for women he deals with everyday, from the waitress at the local restaurant ("she brought me more olives for my salad because I winked at her") to the girl who cuts his hair ("she had her boobs right in my face while she washed my hair.") Interesting......

My WH was never a flirt. I always was before our M but suppressed it during our M. He was always kind of awkward around women. Guess he got over that. That is one of the reasons I was so surprised by his A. He never seemed to give out 'signals' at least as far as I ever noticed.

<small>[ November 30, 2002, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: footballwidow ]</small>