Last night FOW (Ry's mom) called me. She wanted to update me on the custody stuff regarding Ryan.

As she's talking somehow the convo veers to 11 years ago when all this crap started (my H's affairs with Lana and her).

She tells me that when she started up with my H that he pursued her. That she told him "NO" because he was married and he told her he was getting a divorce (news to me, I didn't even know he was unhappy). I was a bit dumb founded because I always assumed she was the aggressor. She did say she found out later what a liar he was, because he would not end our marriage like she thought he would.

Then she was telling me how she has this box of cards and letters from my ex-H, keepsakes. She assures me she no longer has any of THOSE type feelings for him, and I believe her.

I walked away from that convo pretty upset. I already had the kitty thing on my emotional plate, and adding that made my night almost sleepless. I guess I asked for it in trying to be friends and trying to make everything amicable.

The idea that my ex-H has done these same things (ONE TRICK PONY) with all these women brings me to believe I never really knew him, and he never had an exclusive love for just me. Because I'm sure Lana also has a box of cards and letters too.

This week-end I am going thru MY box of 20 years of cards and letters from Mr. I_LOVE_EVERYBODY, and burning them, because they are meaningless.

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

{{{{{Resilient}}}}}
This is for your own good. I gave away everything that remind me of her ... daily stuff, such as furniture to .... beleive it or not, Christmas Ornaments. When I moved to my new house last summer, I am starting a new life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I still have pictures of us but all of them is in the box for my 2 D to have. xH is a philanderer and cheater is their middle name.
-rh-

Stop talking to FOW too, it is for you to move on

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Thanks Redhat.

Guess I was hanging on to the stuff as a symbol that I did exist, regardless of how my ex-H tries to invalidate that statement.

I'm so stupid, I never EVER thought of these women having what I had, all the romance and what-I-thought were heartfelt cards and letters proclaiming his love for me and me alone. What a sham and an offensive fraud he is.

It's almost mind boggling to know that there are three boxes out there with similar cards and letters touting the same love, dedication and commitment.

I'm still trying to digest it .....

Dear Res:
I know you are much more wiser than I am and are always offering such sage advice to people so I hope I can give you a small bit of hope.

HE is the UNORIGINAL one. Not you. He obviously can't think of that many different ways to show his affection (or misguided affection). You are the real thing. He is a phony.

I hope you go out and find someone who makes you feel and treats you like the REAL thing you are and deserve.
DB

you know its hard to be a man who wants his marriage to work with people like your EX making it real easy to believe that WS's are just selfserving manipulative jerks.

I am so so sorry he is that.

but you know this isnt bad news, its enlightenment, its the news that begins to free your heart from the past and prepares it for the future.

the kind of news that means you are good and worthy congratulations on your good fortune and being rid of such a bad thing in your life.

Chaz,

I know my ex-H is not the typical WS. He is the extreme. And I hope everyone here understands that. I just married badly, and believed his lies that kept me thinking I should work to stay married. And I did love him. At least the him I thought he was.

I am trying so hard to be done with this. I know I'm better off. I need to gain strength to be able to hear this crap without it making me feel bad about myself. And I'll get there.

Thanks for saying such nice stuff. It helps.

The truth will set you free. I really believe that well worn platitude, and it seems you were set a little more free, no matter what the pain, nothing is as precious as freedom. The talk with FOW was a very good thing, trust those instincts.

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

Resilient,

I don't know your situation as well as others; but a thought came into my head that I wanted to share. Your FOW must have so many agendas where your H is concerned, how on earth can you possibly trust what she is saying. I'm not saying she is lying outright; but I am sure there is distortion.

However I must say that I am trying to learn to trust my gut feelings again - so you may be listening to yours and that's why it hurts.

I still think that FOW sounds like she is hurting; and as the saying goes -"misery loves company". I just don't know if I would buy every word she has to sell. CSue

Jo...

A couple of things came to mind... a little irreverent...

"Love letters burning on an open fire..."

"Do you hear what I hear... the healing of a heart?"

I got the chills reading your post... I could almost HEAR a turning point for you... I feel it in my bones that some REAL healing will be taking place!

Hugs and MUCH love,
Happy Christmas and Merry New Year!

Marsha (aka Cali)

Hi Jo - thinking of you.

ditto the others

More confirmation that you are better off now, like many of us are.

Hugs,
Dave

Hi jo...

Listen...you are too good of a person to let this get you down. I know it hurts and all, so let it hurt for a day or two and then try to let it go.

I know you have been struggling from time to time with this recovery business and this, I think, is part of that process. And I do believe it is a process.

You have to go thru some of this to allow yourself to heal.

What I am saying is I think this is normal and to a certain extent healthy because you are going thru it and dealing with it. Of course it hurts, that is a very valid feeling. But don't obsess on it. Accept it, feel the hurt, deal with it and move on.

As you and so many other have said, you are better off....

I would suggest that future convos with Ryan's mom stay more on Ryan and you relationship with him. Much more positive life focus, ya know?

You are one of the real sweethearts here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Don't let this stuff get you down for long.

I hope that makes sense...

Take care,

E

Jo,
Your situation hasn't changed, just your knowledge of the details. Whether he was the aggressor, or she...doesn't change that you already knew they both said yes at some point.

I wouldn't necessarily believe her. She might be re-writing history so she doesn't feel so lousy about what she has done. My H's FOW tried for victim status. But, I'd met her before the PA, and she was after him then and she called him times he did move home. Victim schmictim.

If this FOW wanted to not have an A, the required word was "no". The required behavior was walking away.

Listen to Lor,

I too beleive there is some rewritting of history going on... there always is. You remember how she acted during the affair.... she was not an unwilling victim. Now that she likes you,and maybe has some regrets, she is making the story a little better on her side.

Call me

Hello dear Jo,

One of the awful things about infidelity is the tendency of the BS to doubt his/her self-worth when in fact, the focus should be on the worthlessness of the actions of the WS.

You are, and have always been, of utmost importance and value. You put your trust in a misguided, thoughtless, and selfish person who behaved as if you, in some ways, didn't exist. This simply shows HIS major, major lack of character. It shows that the person you thought HE WAS does not exist. It is HIS existence as a person of integrity that should be in question.

Try hard to shake these bad feelings about yourself. My sister and my son felt the same way as you do. It's part of the whole lousy betrayal package. You are such an intelligent woman. Let your intellectual side chase away the emotional side here. YOU are NOT the one whose value in this world should be questioned.

Now say this over and over. IT'S ABOUT HIM, NOT ABOUT ME. IT'S ABOUT HIM, NOT ABOUT ME. IT'S ABOUT HIM, NOT ABOUT ME.

Thinking of you,
Estes

Dear Jo,

Is this bringing you any closer to closure? I too wanted to rip something up. I was angry at the last bout and I did rip something up....... I had a good cry and did it. I don't want to say what here for fear it might offend a few. Don't worry it wasn't abusive, just symbolic. Not a live thing but a cherished memory, one that I can no longer hand down to my children. I save a few remants as a reminder to H & I. He had no idea how important it was to me yet how vital I had to take out my frustration in such a symbolic way.

Jo, whatever you need to bring closure is healing as long as it is done in a way that does not damage you and those you love.

Hugz,
L.

Jo,

Just wanted you to know I was thinking of you. Remember, despite what little ow says... you were his WIFE, and he had a committment to you... and he broke it, not you. She was a willing adulterous... not you, and he may have pursued some , but she was the easy one in the wings... sorry to sound so blunt to any ow's out there.. but PLEEESE.

Just remember you were his love for 21 yrs, he couldn't keep the commitment , not you.

I also think you are very lucky not to have biological kids with this man.. you can let him go completely and move on.

Sure it is going to hurt for a long time,. and you may never forget, but you can start over with a better person when you are ready.

Have you taken divorcecare, it might be a little late? But I really enjoyed it, and it helped me with my healing. It was a once a week class at a church with videos on getting over it, christian based of course. Now you are way more over it than me, but it did help.. just wanted to mention... I think they sd for every 2 yrs of marriage it takes a yr to heal or something like that... anyway on my ten yr marriage- 18 yr relationship, I was estimating minimum 4 yrs to recover.... My memory might not be exactly right. it also talks about new relationships and such in the class.. which they advise waiting on, and it looks like you are doing that... which I will have to too... I will not be ready for quite a while.

There was a woman in my group divorced over a yr that seemed to get a lot out of it too.. anyway, if you don't already know ck out www.divorcecare.com and find a church near you offering it, if you are interested in it.

I also liked the face to face talking and support.

Hugs, H

<small>[ December 21, 2002, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

jo- just to let you know i am thinking of you too. i agree with thd others- this may be a beginning of healing for you. stay strong.

THIS ... is a false statement:

"I'm so stupid.... (editing out the rest)"

"Stupid" implies a lack of intelligence or smarts. You were living your life (at that time) in absence of certain important facts regarding your XH's character. Now that you have those facts (and FWIW, I do tend to believe the FOWs confession) you are not smarter .... simply better informed.

"Stupid" is an inaccurate word to describe yourself ... please be careful in this way.

You were "in the dark". You were "out of the loop". You may have been "looking through rose colored glasses" when giving someone you love(d) the benifit of the doubt. THOSE actions are NOT stupid. Human, yes, stupid, no.

The anger you rightfully feel toward XH is being diverted toward yourself. Let it go.

Mentally and emotionally process these recent revelations WITHOUT calling yourself "stupid".

The world is hard enough on us, we can allow ourselves to make errors in judgement without characterizing ourselves so harshly.

Take care ...

Pepper

<small>[ December 21, 2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

sat and sat and sat..and thought what exactly would I say to you if you were sitting right in front of me....and here's what I came up with...

I would say resilient...that his inability to see the true uniqueness and wonder in all people he brings into his life is all on his shoulders...

His cookie cutter approach of telling people (women) the "same" type of thing speaks volumes of his inability to ever reach any state of true intimacy...

But that that's not a reflection of you...this guy only knows one way to "show" his feelings...but when offering them he means it....in his shallow not even close to understanding what true committment means...obviously....

I don't know him...but I bet when he gave those things to you he meant them..from the bottom of his (Now black shallow tainted little heart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Resilient..this guy loves to the best of his ability...but his best isn't even a reflection of how and what you deserve...that's what you should be learning and never forget.....

There is no dishonor and nor is it a reflection of you, his inability to truly love and be loved....

Let him LOVE EVERYBODY...it's an empty chase...
grieve what you feel you must and keep on going on...
Know that to this board alone you bring much strenth and wisdom to so many......You exist always because of you...and never ever because of him or anyone else...
Seek your value from within and from those worthy of you in their lives...you didn't make a mistake...he did ,in not realizing what he had and what he lost...and resilient..he may never really understand what he lost in you...perhaps because that reality would be to much for him to handle.. so phhhfffttt to him...
Wishing you joy
ARK

Ark pretty much said it all for me, as you know what I feel about his "one-trick pony". But then I have to also think how that must be a sad existence, to not know real all encompassing unconditional love on so many deeper levels that they have no idea or concept of. Oh, Res, Thank God that you have the wisdom and abilities that he may never accomplish in his life. And if I ever hear or see that you have typed "stupid and engage it with you" again, I will....uhhhh, say bad things to you and make you wish I could not type!! that's the meanest thing I could come up with... Many Blessings for you my friend.