Hi New Here. My w had 2 year EA swares was not PA but everything has been a lie for 2-3 years. I am devestated, we are seperated. Know I am not perfect but "come on"

Really need help. Want W to work on marriage beacuase there is huge potential (not to mention 3 great kids) but she seems almost like she is from another planet. She has been so hateful, so mean, so much an attitude..."Its your fault!"

She started being like that after being caught with the hand in the cookie jar...Twice!

I mean she wasn't exactly meeting my needs and I always had a gut feeling but she really started being a B!@#ch royally after being busted. What in the hell is going on here??? Now she has re-wrote the history of our marriage from "Nobody's perfect to "You were a monster." I am not I sware!

rlyhurtin --

Welcome to MB -- I'm very sorry for what's brought you here but this is a good place to come with it; we'll help you all we can.

None of us are perfect--that goes with the territory, a given--but while we don't always do or say the "right" thing, we are trying to learn how to do it better and to be better. We'll try to share with you the things we've learned about what we're going through.

Could you fill us in a bit on what's going on with this--whatever you're comfortable with? How did your separation happen? Did you leave or did she?
How long ago? (I'm assuming very recently) How long have you been married? Do you have children? That sort of thing...

It's unfortunately fairly common for a long- standing EA to turn into a PA. What exactly do you know about the EA? Did you discover it or did she confess? It's also common for the WS to deny any PA (thinking misguidely that one is preferable to the other). The more we know about your situation, the more on-point our thoughts can be.

We're here for you. Post again and stay with us on this. I'm sorry for your pain. This is a terribly violent and totally disorienting thing and you don't need to go throught it alone. I've gone through it and many of our members as well. We can help you get through this. For now, you need to hang in and get us more involved...

Ammon

RH,
Hang in there. You have come to the right place. Is your WW living in the same house as you? You need to read all you can on these boards and this website. Your WW is in the FOG that you will read about and that is VERY PAINFUL. Read about doing Plan A and also about exposing the affair to the light of day because most affairs won't survive it.

Keep posting. There are many wise ones out there that will come along and assist you.

Need some help here? I am dealing with a person that seems completely irrational. Everything she says is meant to hurt.

This is not her? Or is it

The OM's girlfriend called me at work. Said she had multiple letters. Read an e-mail that she sent him saying "I would rock your world" etc...

She called this behavoir flirting. FLIRTING FOR TWO YEARS???

Letter writing fot 2 years?

One of the letters said. Sorry we met like this we could have been spectacular. This is AFTER SHE GOT CAUGHT AND I CAUGHT HER AGAIN!

Now after the second D-Day she just started being plum mad dog mean! Told me the whole I love you not in love thing and blah blah blah. Now I feel so guilt ridden and so much shame. I filed for legal seperation after all of the lies & insults and her everyday saying "Gee I really miss him"

I was so hurt. She swears she is not in contact anymore, he has moved 40 miles away BUT SURPRISE she extended her cell coverage to cover where he moved. Afterall it wasn't about the affair, it was about me. Could of fooled me on Feb 6, 2002. I thought things were going pretty good.

So do you think there was a pA. Do you think she is still in contact, I plan A'ed for two years before I knew of the concept. I was practically "Super Husband" but I guess my best isn't good enough still! I am trying a gentle Plan B, but she just gets mean and nasty. AND TELLS ME--"OH THATS A WAY TO WORK ON A MARRIAGE...NO CONTACT"--Well almost 3 years of this! With the last 10 months confirmed is alot of paitence in my book isn't it? We are seperated and we share = time with our three D's I am hurting, I have read every Harley book known to man etc...

One day she calls me crying saying "I am so sorry, I love you. I want to go to a MB Weekend. I want to start over etc...

The next...Its like she never said it! IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY

rlyhurtin --

Our posts crossed! Now we know more about what's going on for you. My thoughts:

1) Around here we call it The Fog. Once it takes over, rational thought and behavior flies out the window. Your W is Fog-bound. Very common for WS to "blame" the BS--"this is all your fault" is standard-script garbage. We've all heard it far too many times ourselves. We know it's not true and YOU need to know that as well.

2) This isn't about you; it's about your W's poor choices (doesn't hurt any less to know that, but it's reality nonetheless). You didn't cause her to have an A but it's far easier for her to blame you than to accept responsibility herself (remember The Fog?).

3) Read WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses. They're priceless gems of perspective and sanity. Find the link on the Just Found Out forum and elsewhere. Print 'em out and read 'em daily.

4) Rewriting history is also standard practice for a WS. You have to keep a grip on reality here as much as you can. You KNOW what's real and true. Focus on that no matter what W says about your life together--so hard to do but absolutely necessary.

5) Nothing in your past or hers justifies an A = bottom line. Even if you are a "monster," it's still no excuse, but the WS needs to create external motivation with these feeble, transparent attempts at justification. Don't buy it!

6) Three children means a significant history and sizeable investment in your family. Give them extra love and attention; they're very aware of things not being right. With your separation, they have tangible evidence of the fracture. Where are they living, with you or W? In the home or elsewhere?

7) When the WS gets "caught," the residual guilt produces all-encompassing anger. You're seeing that anger as "hurtful...mean...attitude" I sorry to say that it's all par for the course, standard operating procedure.

Again, I'm sorry for this mess. Love your kids twice as much, focus on them and on keeping your strength and sanity. You're the only one capable of holding your family together at this point. Talk to friends and family (don't be embarrassed), get some counseling, post here again as often as you'd like. We're here for you...

Ammon

Ammon-

Married almost 9 years. Always feared there could be an A in our relationship, she really wasn't Mother Theresa before we got married. In fact she had a really hard time with any man that paid attention. In fact (AND I AM REALLY NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN) She was the "easiest" Woman I have ever met. I really do love her though but I am afraid she may be programmed like this. I realize Harley says we are all wired for it, but I think so are FAR more so than others!

A very serious question. How long does the fog last? In my case the A lasted at least two years. But she is still being weird. Is their FOG after the A dies? I hope so! I hope this isn't her! In my last post do you think the A is still going on?

But the most important question is. Does the Fog last after the A is over (If its over)

Please hehelp

rlyhurtin --

Even if she is "more programmed" than normal, she CAN get un-programmed. How much does she want to keep your marriage and family intact?

You, individually and together, have GOT to get into counseling. Lots of issues here but they all boil down to one major one: your W's low self-esteem. I'm not a pro by any means but it's obvious to me that's what driving this runaway wagon. The Harleys are wonderful, but you may feel more comfortable with face-to-face work locally.
Nine years together and three daughters: all worth preserving. This will take time and lots and lots of work on both your parts. Get some professional guidance and direction. We can help but I feel you need more than we can provide. With counseling and MB, this is more doable than it looks to you right now. I'm a pro-marriage advocate so I say hang in there for yourself, your family, and for her.

Ammon

Rlyhurtin --

The official "party line" says that The Fog lasts as long as it lasts (not what you want to hear, I know). No chance for The Fog to dissipate if the A is still going on--it's what drives the rational for the WS, makes it "seem OK."

Is there Fog after the A? -- depends upon what made the A stop. If WS stopped it, it's usually because The Fog has cleared and WS has "seen the light." If it's another reason, often The Fog continues for a time.

Question: are you certain--certain--that the A is over? If W is "still being weird," there's got to be a reason. I think you're not convinced it's over and done with. That would explain some of your issues and questions. Is it possible? -- certainly. But only you and she know how like that is. You yourself even said, "IF it's over."

The Fog can last for a time after the A is over, but in my experience that isn't normal. If there's still Fog, if she's still mean and cold, if she won't/can't commit to a reconciliation, I'd do some serious digging.

Hang in there; it's gonna be a long and bumpy ride, but worth the pain? Only you can decide. I say hang in and see what happens.

Ammon

Ammon-

Sorry its been so long and my sincere appreciation
of what you are trying to tell me.

You told me "If she is acting weird, then I'd do some serious digging"

Truth is we are "Legally Seperated" and on the verge of a true divorce.

I think it would be a huge LB if I continued to dig for evidence of the affair continuing. Truth is I don't know, BUT it could be her just "chasing boys" Thats making her act weird. She actually said she got heart broken by OM #1 because "He lead her on"--Imagine hearing that one. What do you say to that? "Oh sorry It didn't work out for you?"--But maybe she is chasing boys to get over HIM--(Puke)

I feel so empty. Like it was all my fault. I feel so guilty? Here is the deal. Please help, please offer some advise. I am so confused.

One Day: "I love you H, I am so sorry. (Kiss-Kiss-Hug Hug) "You do know that I love you right H"
"H the goal is to be married some day, I just need my space"

Next Day: H, You are pond scum and I its over

This has been repeating itself for months.

I am somewhere in between plan B and Michele W Davis's "Last Resort Technique"--Which is a modified Plan B (Acting as if you are getting on with your life, and working on yourself & actually getting a life.

Can someone explain the whole, mixed signal thing I keep getting. The invitations to dinner, the I love You's, the "I want to go to a MB weekend" You are my hero,etc...Then the next day I am Satan?

This is driving me batty. Besides after 6 months and untold damage how is it possible to be togther again?

I have been reading Michele W Davis's Divorce remedy and it simply states that if you want things to work out I am to STOP engaging in pursueing behavior and snooping is one of the those behaviors according to her.

Rly Hurtin,
It is hard to know where to start. Thanks for thinking I might be able to help you, I don't really know if I can. Sorry for all that you're going through.

Ammon gave such fantastic advice, and wrote so many wise things. As was said by Ammon, the fog doesn't stop until the A is over. Or at least near over. It took me awhile to end it- the A, as I 'd invested so much emotional/fantasy energy into it, for so long. I'm sure your wife has too. It's hard to admit that you've been so stupid, as I had to do.

From what I've gathered from your posting, it sounds like your wife is deeply into fantasy and not thinking clearly at all. I was there, too.

My now exH never let me know, directly, during the 'fog' time for me that he still cared, and that he would consider a reconciliation. It sounds like you've done this, already--and you have had 'kiss and make-up' time. I haven't kissed my husband in almost four years, and I still love the man-of course.

It sounds like she knows you still care about her. It's interesting, in a way that is so important--but in a way your extreme willingness shows her that she can have her way, either way. I think in my case my husband's aloofness made me find him more attractive , as I saw he was self-sufficient and that he wasn't desperate. I know this sounds confusing, but I am just kind of seeing that myself, just now. I don't know if that makes sense.

You know, I think basically you should be loving, in a guarded way and as Ammon said take extra good care of your daughters. The fact that it's an EA,PA? -either way, and OM has a girlfriend tells me it's all just fantasy based. All the letter writing, all that romantic stuff--fantasy. In my situation, the fog began to lift when OM moved near me, and I saw how he truly was in daily life. The stark contrasts between his immaturity and my husband's quiet strength were startling. Show your wife you love her, and care--but also be a strong man for her, like you can make it without her. This might get her thinking. My exH helped me a bit around the house, occasionally--repairs, but I remember one time he told me he didn't want to, and did I understand why? In other words, he didn't want to feel used, as I had OM. Why should I use him for repairs, etc? This showed me his self-esteem.

Your wife sounds very confused, may I ask how old she is? Perhaps part of the difference here is just that every person who has an A is very different, and they have them for different reasons. I see mine as a midlife crisis-I was nearing forty when it started. I feel your wife has to hit 'rock bottom' before she sees a need to change.

Does she miss your girls, when she 's not with them? This part of divorce/separation has torn me apart, from day one. Do lots of interesting things with the girls, without your wife--that will help her think, too.

I don't know if I've helped much at all. My bottom line is to advise you to not give up hope, and to be patient. It sounds like your wife is acting out in very hurtful ways due to her own major problems. Until she sees that, and feels guilt and remorse--and a desire to change--there isn't anything you can do. Except--be kind and loving, without being a doormat. Let her know you care, but don't be too 'easy'.

Oh, one more thing. You said you felt guilty, like it was your fault. Please don't think that way, you're not the one cheating, she is. If you have a church, I suggest going to your pastor for some help as far as that area is concerned. If you don't have one, perhaps you should explore getting involved in one, or at least thinking along those lines. Many church pastors are good counselors,too--or they can refer you to ones that can help you in your sorting things out. You need support! Keep coming here, too. These people are wonderful.

Men tend to hold it all in, and that makes it really difficult.

I hope this makes sense.

Take care and God bless,
H_P

Hopeful Person-

My W is 33. I feel as though it is a midlife crisis. She HATED turning 30! In fact she said the attention she got from him was what she was looking for. OM's girlfreind broke up with him on D-Day and moved out of town immediately! She told me she was convinced it was an intense A.

After D-Day W really tried hard. It only lasted a few weeks as she kept lieing about having NC with him. Well I found out the hard way with the letter she wrote him that I discovered. Thats neither here nor there anymore.

Hopeful, she says she wants to date me. Why should I. I know I love her, but right this very minute she isn't my type. Does that make sense? I told her to deal with her own issues that have nothing to do with me, then perhaps I'd be attacted enough to her to want to try. Besides I have never dated anyone in my life where it wasn't "exclusive"--Our marriage wasn't exclusive so why on earth would I think dating her would be while we are seperated? I am trying my hardest to act aloof. But it is hard, she views that as me being mean! I don't want to be mean yet i don't want to make her think she can just have me back or date me when ever SHE is ready. I know what I have done to contribute to the A. Obviously thats why I am here, but the truth is MY EN's were far from being met, yet I didn't stray. She needs to deal with her problems and show me some things before I would consider dating. Here is the deal, I want reconsilliation, but I want to be treated with care and respect. The person she is now doesn't respect me or care for me (Even though she says that she does) Hopeful, what should I think when she says "How do we fix this" "I love you H", kisses me hugs me, then the very next day I hear that she is asking friends to "set her up" with guys? Or she acts as if she never said it. I am confused? Should I really Plan B hardcore even though she perceives it as mean?

Hopeful, I would love to help you too win back your husband. I know how he feels and reading your posts, I feel like a carbon copy of him all beit that I am about 10 years younger the version.

K040302@aol.com

Hopeful-

Another thing you said men hold things in. I am like your husband except in that way, I will tell her everything that I am thinking or feeling. (probably why I didn't have A)

Should I stop doing this? My counseller told me to stop, that she may view that as pursuing behavior.

" she is asking friends to "set her up" with guys?"

Nothing confusing about what she wants. Of course, you could wait it out and hope that she grows up and becomes a responsible adult. After all, it took 4 years and a divorce for hopeful_person to realize what she gave up.

Tommaz-

As much as your post sucked, you are probably right.

Am I an idiot or what! Today I went out of my way to get the brakes fixed on WW's car. I am sure she views that as "Yup still have him by the ba!@'s " Well 99% of the reason I did it is because she isn't a real "go getter" when it comes to that kind of stuff and if she is going to be driving MY DAUGHTERS around, its gonna be in a safe car. Ok, I am a SAP...1% of the reason is to perhaps score a "deposit"---

I suck, I am such a sap!

RLY,

I don't see you as a SAP. I see you as a father that cares a LOT about the safety of his family. You are buying the FOG talk. This is only going to lead to more destruction fo your EGO and your "R".

Stop beating yourself up for what you feel you didn't do right. You can't go backwards. All you can do now is to learn how to be the best person that you can possibly be, and be STRONG for your kids.

RLY,
You're most definitely not a SAP. It's good you're thinking of your children. Please try and be patient, and continue focusing on the kids.

I don't have any idea how you can get your wife to see the harm of her ways, until she's ready to see it herself.

Take care,
H_P