In summary: My ILs wanted everyone to be together over Xmas despite my WWs ugly objections and threats. But we reached a compromise whereas I would not be there the entire time, just a few days… When I got to my SIL and BIL’s place in CA it was a little tense but WW was talking. We went out to eat w/ SIL and BIL and their baby D. That went rather well. WW was talking and everything. We even walked up to the store together to get some brew. She asked me if I was going to go out on my own. I said yes(I have secured a place of my own). She asked me if I had looked around much because rent is not cheap where we live. I said I had looked a little. It’s weird she gets on this “make it on your own” kick and then she is trying to tell me what to do. After that we did not speak of it the rest of the time.

The following morning the ILs arrived and her mood darkened as quickly as you could snap your finger. She was hostile toward them. She got mad at me for hugging her and showing affection. “Quit touching me” was the exact phrase if I remember. I gave her some space on that and went and climbed a small mountain (just a rolling foothill really). That took a around 4 hours. That was really the last nasty thing she said all weekend, to me anyway. Most of the anger was directed at her Ps the whole time. You could just see that she was simmering. But she never took it out on me. That’s interesting.??

I was in Plan A mode the whole time. I went there to enjoy myself and to prove to her that I was not weak or a recluse as she has made me out to be. I was great w/ our niece (4 mos. old) Our niece smiled at me a lot and she liked it when I talked to her in baby speak. All of this was done in front of WW. I am positive that she was surprised by my out going behavior. Babies have a healing effect, I think, and put things in perspective.

We spent Xmas afternoon w/ family friends, where, in front of WW I got into a conversation about open source software w/ a guy who runs a software co. Usually it has been my W that has carried on the conversation and she has looked down on me with the attitude that “you just don’t understand”. Well this time I was doing the talking and she was doing the listening. Want a turn of events that was for me. She even laughed at some of my witty humor. She had made an effort not to laugh at any thing I say. She laughed and smiled a lot and looked me in the eye. I even caught her looking at me a few times.

The OM is a nematode in comparison with the rest of our family and friends. My hope is that she will see that as another crack in the rotten foundation.

To end it, I hit the ball out of the park, let all her barbs bounce off, and took a step in showing to her that I am strong, ambitious, and also kind and caring.

I know that a few days are not going to solve our problems but it was a good start. What do you guys think about this?

PS: She called twice tonight. Once was returning my call to check to see if she made it back alright and the next was to answer a computer question. Our computer is dying and need of some work. Another opportunity!

<small>[ January 03, 2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>

Luki, thanks for the update. So good to hear how well you handled everything.

Hang in there.

Luki,

I am glad you could handle the sit. better but don't hang your hope high. This is a 'coaster ride until WS is out of the fog.

-rh-

freshstart and redhat,

Thanks for the replies. I'm not getting my hopes up but it was nice to have a "fun" Xmas, at least I thought it was fun.

I'm sure that the coaster is going to go downhill now that we are back to reality(at least I am).

I forgot to mention that we went to Xmas mass. We don't go to church but BIL and SIL do so we all went. One big happy family.

I could see that she was a little tense during the mass. Especially when the priest talked about unholy desires etc... I wish I could be a fly on the wall of her mind during this. What justifications was she possibly be thinking of then?? Maybe it helped a little. Who knows <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

WOOT!! Glad to hear you Christmas went well Luki. RH is right, don't hang your hat to high, but that doesn't mean not to have more hope. My W (formerly know as the WW) acted in much the same way. You're right it could be nothing, but it could be something. That's where I would lay my money.

Well the computer died (see above), sort of. So I got another opportunity for some limited contact w/ WW. She called twice at work and we actually got a membership to Sam's club. I can buy a 32 pack of toilet paper now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Anyway, I arranged to meet her at home to try to fix the machine. I had limited time because she doesn't want me there when she isn't. So, I packed up the machine to work on it else where.

I was so tempted to put spy ware on there, but seeing how I already know the score, there is no point. OM, a.k.a., "nematode" doesn't have email and anyway, right now what I don't know won't hurt me. I know what I have to do. Snooping at this point would be counter productive. However, I should of and would of snooped before all this happened. I had a funny feeling but was in denial. I highly recommend snooping if you suspect.

Anyway, I got it fixed. I needed some parts for a new box I am building so I did some parting out of the old machine. She wouldn't know the difference and I wouldn't either if I wasn't running a software development program. OK, I'm rambling there.

She came over to pick the machine up and to get our cats which had been hold up for the holidays. That was the most contact we had in a while. She even called me to let me know she made it home, ok. I know there are two sides to every coin.

1. She is maybe coming around or,

2. She is trying to be "friends" to futher fog herself in.

Next counseling session is Monday... I think the real work is going to begin then.

Luki -
All you can do is all you can do. Good luck at counseling tonight.

I don't know if I missed something or not but you are currently staying with a friend? And you own or rent a house? And you are looking to rent something? So who is paying for what? Just wondering if "real life" will be dropping like a bomb soon as far as money is concerned?
DB

Hey db,

Answers to you questions:

1. I am staying with a friend.

2. We do own a home, but WW has been footing the bills. I have been in school the last two years and have not been working full time.

3. School is done and I have returned to work full time, as of today.

4. I plan on moving to a place of my own on Jan. 1st. How's that for starting the New Year?

5. "Real life" almost dropped a bomb, but I have got a hold of my finances and things look ok.

I also have an individual session before the MC with the person I first started seeing for my depression. I am feeling better about myself these days so hopefully I won't need much more IC and/or Prozac. I am going to see about switching meds to wellbutrin (sp?). Supposedly that is not a weird on you as Prozac.

It's going to be a long day. First, work, then an IC session then a MC session.

How are you doing?

I'm doing okay, thanks for asking!

Nothing new on the "details" front. I still don't know what I want to know but maybe that will come or maybe my desire to "know" will lessen.

Actually, much progress was made this weekend. We went to my ILs and typically, the sons start acting like the father with angry outbursts towards their spouses. Guess what??? Mine didn't do it! He was the only one!!! I'm sooo proud of him and really appreciate his attitude this whole weekend. I know it would have been terribly easy for him to fall into old habits since we got some very disappointing health news about our son this weekend as well and we were both really bummed about it. I should probably tell him how much I appreciate it but sometimes he doesn't like to hear stuff like that and I didn't feel like rocking the boat last night!

Anyway, I was just wondering if maybe financial business could throw your W into a tail spin and "wake her up" but it sounds like that is a nonissue at this point.

It sounds like maybe intelligence is one of the requirements in a partner and that you could fufill that need while the OM couldn't. I think you should concentrate on that EN for awhile. Is there anyway you could make him look dummer??? JK!

Hope you make it through today. What are your NYE plans, besides packing?
DB

Hi Luki,

I've been following your thread and I wanted to wish you well at counseling. Congrats. on the new place. I think that this is going to be a good thing for you and your wife because it seems like this is a big ISSUE for her.

Prozac worked well for me but caused me to gain 50 lBS. Wellbutrin was not as effective, but it did take the edges off for a while.....

DB,

It sounds like you are on the road to recovery, yes?

New Years plans:

I will ask WW if she wants to do something. I know the answer already but it would be dumb not to ask.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It sounds like maybe intelligence is one of the requirements in a partner and that you could fufill that need while the OM couldn't. I think you should concentrate on that EN for awhile. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good call, I realized this early on and have been doing my best.

kily,

Prozac is definitely working, but I have trouble concentrating and sleeping, which really wears on me. I am going to get a professional opinion on this and go from there. I also lost weight, it was a little scary. I have put some back on now so that aspect is a little better.

Luki,

How long have you been on Prozac?

The weight loss, concentration, and restlessness are classic symptoms of Depression. The fact that you're starting to gain weight definately tells me that you are starting to stabilize.

I'm suprised that the doctor didn't give you a second perscription for the sleeplessness. I had to take something for two mionths before I was sleeping normally again. Concentration will gradually return, too. It will take some time. I remember at one point someone talking to me, and a minute later I could not recall ANY of the conversation.

kily,

I have been taking Prozac for 3mos and have a follow up appt. w/ my doctor next monday. I will look in to the sleeplessness then. I have one more month remaining on this RX and will have to get it renewed.

I can totally relate to what you are saying. I have had those moments where I could not rememeber for the life of me what someone just said to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think my concentration is slowly coming back. I was able to do some computer programming this weekend. It was a struggle but I got through it.

Luki:
While the concentration thing could be coming from the medication, I have trouble concentrating since this all happened and am not taking medication.

Concentration has been improving somewhat as life gets better. Guess I just wanted to say - we are all having trouble in that area - meds or not!!

Yes, I think you could call it recovery. I am even feeling comfortable posting in that area and am staying away from JFO - too painful - I feel like I belong in "Recovery"! Yeah!!!
DB

Well, the two-a-day is over. Got referred to a psychiatrist in IC session to keep better tabs on the prozac etc.

I'll just chat about the MC session now. WW is still trying to wail on me, but as I remove the excuses the air gets thinner and she can no longer hide in the fog. She can sense it coming.

Alot of it was from WAT's WS script. "You messed this up, You messed that up" and so on, so forth. MC spends most of the time talking to her pinning her down on certain issues.

This is the most amazing part. She actually looked me in the eye!!! That has not happened in a long time.

The next few weeks will pretty much rip away any excuses she has remaining. Then the rubber will meet the road. I will have done my part and she will have to face reality. I expect that she will invent some kind of crisis to blame me for.

After the session, of course, she shut me down for New Years. Whatever. She also will not allow me to gather some thing from home on New Years Day, when I move into my own place. "I don't want you to ruin my New Years." I flat out asked her if OM was going to be there. "That's none of your business", she replied. It ended with me telling her she was being mean and I left it at that. I will propose a compromise tomorrow.

The ILs are helping me move(they have a truck). I should tell them to drop by our home. That would blow things apart if OM was there. She needs a reality check. What do you think of this? Can you tell I'm very tweaked right now!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I sent WW an email this morning, stating that I will need to pick some things up tomorrow.

I also told her how it is; that I was doing all I could. Would she? I respectfully told her that I would no longer come between her and her parents and that I hoped this would help.

She said yesterday that I had continued to hurt her by talking to ILs even though I knew it hurt her(I know, I know, classic WS babble). To that I replied I was no longer going to do that. Would she stop hurting me now? I ended it by saying that we have a bright future in front of us and I will do all I can to make that happen. I said that I loved her but I was not a doormat.

I had to say these things to avoid feeling like a doormat. I'm sure she will blow her top, but whatever, that's not my problem. I didn't write anything offensive. Just told her how it was.

On another note: I have contacted the BAN support groups here and hopefully I will be able to attend a meeting. I'll keep you posted.

Oh, darn, Luki, I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if her parents showed up with the OM there!!! Is she ashamed of him do ya think???

Looking you in the eye sounds like a baby step in the right direction to me. Maybe she's starting to have a little more respect for the new Luki. Good!!!

Happy New Year and moving day. Let 2003 begin!
DB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Luki:
<strong>I flat out asked her if OM was going to be there. "That's none of your business", she replied.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your house, right?

Yep, I heard the same thing after I found out that my XW had brought OM to my house while I was on vacation to help her move some things out. I swear I am not making this up: "It's none of your business who I bring to your house when you're not here!!!!!"

But, I think you should stop asking questions about OM. This is not about him and when you ask it's an LB.

As much "fun" as it would be, I also recommend you NOT try to choreograph the ILs coming by the house when OM is there. Of course, if this happens anyway, you'll be blamed for trying to ruin her life.

I suggest you tread real easy. Resist all temptation to rub her nose in things and let the counselor do the dirty work. Be careful "ripping away excuses." When YOU do this, it's an LB for sure. When the excuses get ripped away by someone else, it's only slightly less of an LB against your account. But when they evaporate on their own, maybe no LB at all.

<small>[ December 31, 2002, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Here is the response from WW:

I'm sorry, but as I told you yesterday I am not available tomorrow. Thursday after work would work for me.

We are at an impasse here. I will have to think on this so I don't LB.

Here is what I want to say:

"I am not a doormat for your secret second life. You have asked me many times to take responsibility and I am. Barring someone out of their own home is one of the most hurtful things imaginable. Yes, my home. I do not argue that financially it is your house but it is our home. At some point you need to take responsibility yourself. Certainly, 'banning' me from home is not the way to do it."

Should I send something like this. I am a little hot under the collar right now. So I know I best wait a little bit.

Or do I take one for the team here, although it is yet another withdrawl from the LB$.

What a crock of caca! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Well, I'd hold off that that particular response for now.

Why does she have to be there? Has she changed the locks?

I'm not sure of what you should do, so I hope you get some other ideas, but the two extremes seem to be:

1. Do not respond at all and just show up at YOUR house to get YOUR things whenever YOU want to.
2. Wait until Thursday at her request.

Perhaps somewhere between these two extremes lies the correct answer - if there is one.

It's clear that she considers you have no rights here. Are we surprised? But you do have rights and you should set some boundaries.

One course to consider would be to write her back, indicating that this is still your house and that you have every right to show up whenever you want but you're willing to be reasonable to make this as easy as possible. If it's true, tell her Thursday is too late and it has to be sooner. You're sorry for any inconvenience, but you have no options.

Kick this around.

I think your strategy should be to NOT kick the door down, but also stick up for yourself. When the hinges are rusty, a drop of oil goes a long way.

WAT