Plan B letter fired off 2 weeks ago.

I went on holiday Friday-Monday (long weekend) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Should have turned the cell phone off, because in the middle of my holiday, WH texts me with:

"I am sick of this , no communication". I want to talk to you and I won't do it through XXX (friend). Can we meet for a coffee later today?"

To which I replied (after thinking about it for about 1/2 the day)
"No I can't meet with you. I am on holiday, and won't be back until late Monday."

I was in two minds about replying - that's why it took several hours to formulate some kind of reply.

Either he wants to see if I really do mean no contact (the "I am sick of this ..." comment suggets this) , or maybe he has FINALLY finished it off with OW and wants to discuss a future. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Plan of action:
- Let him initiate the meeting.
- Schedule it for a time that suits me (next weekend)
- Hear him out.
- But remind him after hearing him out that until he has finished his relationship with OW, he can't expect me to be in his life.
- Go back to plan B conditions if necessary.

Does anyone see meeting with him as a problem?

Or maybe he just wants the vacuum cleaner back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hello Claire, Sorry to find you in this situation. After recently speaking to Steve H, Plan B means no contact.

You will destroy the credibility of your Plan B letter if you find that the reason for wanting to meet with you is to discuss the return of your vacuum cleaner.

Stick to your guns.

Strength, breathe...

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Terrified ]</small>

Terrified:

I'm confused. How do we know that our WSes are interested in talking about reconciliation if we don't communicate when they call during PLAN B? What if Claire's WS wants to work on recovery? Should he have indicated this in his message in order for her to agree to meet with him?

Hello,

Sorry. I should have added another sentence. The WS should indicate why they need to speak to you.

You have to be sure that it is not an attempt to break your resolve.

Remember that WS's get angry when pushed against the wall.

Take care.

No expert here, but didn't your Plan B letter indicate a third party was how WH was to communicate with you. If WH is trying to test your resolve, you may be about to fail. Use the third party to find out exactly what it is that he wants to discuss. If WH is not ready to end A and have NC with OW, ever, then there should be nothing to talk about. There is no reason at this point to have to listen to him try to explain what happened, or why, or what he whould like to see happen next. Plan B is not about negotiation. Show confidence, stay strong.

23down is absolutely correct! Your Plan B letter should have stated "When you are ready to come back into the marriage 100% and no longer have any contact with OP then we can talk, other than that, no contact is necessary".
No need to here him give excuses as to why you should give them more time, no need to hear I MISS YOU'S (good for them, but what does that do for you right now....nothing!) No need to hear "I WILL TRY", only "I WILL"! No contact!

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</small>

To which I replied (after thinking about it for about 1/2 the day)
"No I can't meet with you. I am on holiday, and won't be back until late Monday."
TOO MUCH INFO!

A proper response is, "please reread the Plan B letter I sent you."

Chris, 23 Down, Terrified et al.

Thanks for the reminder - Plan B means no contact unless OW is over and done with.

The text message was a test I failed, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> no more slip ups from now on.

If he was really serious about meeting the conditions of Plan B, and really did want to talk reconciliation, making contact with 3rd party person would not be a problem for WH, correct?

I have revised my plan of action.

-No reply to texts/e-mails.
-If he phones, will (politely) ask what he wants to talk about.
-Next question will be "have you decided to end your contact with OW?"
-Any response other than affirmative = end of conversation.
-Good bye.

I also think that the fact he said ... "I won't do this through XXX (friend)" is WH saying I will do what suits me (He's been doing this for so long - why stop now?!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> )

In PLan B YOU take back all the power in your relationship as much as it realtes to you.

A ws has so much power while in an affair, it really smacks them upside the head when they can no longer do as they please. It's very common when one goes to Plan B.

I also think that the fact he said ... "I won't do this through XXX (friend)" is WH saying I will do what suits me (He's been doing this for so long - why stop now?!!
Exactly!

I suspect he will test your resolve a minimum 10 times. Each time he will "up the volume" .... expect accusations "You are trying to control me!" or "You are such an insensitive bytch!" ....

Your best response ">yawn<" or alternative response ">la la la la la la <"

I was told by my wayward 17-year-old son via phone last night that he is severing our relationship because we enforced our boundaries as parents. He "never" wants to speak to us again. But, he wants me to call him tomorrow night and also wants me to send him his CDs.

Strengthen your resolve, and you're more likely to recieve respect.

His ignoring your request is disrespect in a very loud and clear voice.

Pep

Nothing more heard from WH.

But much of the time I seem to be just waiting for him to contact me to say it's all over with OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The last three weeks have seemed more like 3 years!!

That he would give up having any contact with me (forever) so that he can be with OW is a real ego knock. She's ugly!! Oops, I mean, not conventionally beautiful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> And has gained weight since they began their A! WH -a gym-junkie -won't like that.


BTW, Pepperband, in a few years, when your son has his own teenagers, he will have to enforce boundaries - and he will be thankful you taught him what these were!

Claire,
We are in the same position, having the same feelings and the same tests.

I have not had a good look at the OW. I've only seen her from the face up.

I would love to know what her body looks like. Same here. Face isn't all that great.

Working out is important to my WS, too. I can't see when she has time to work out given their schedule.

Will stay in touch with you.

Test number 3 Sunday 8th June at 9:55am.

Text message from WH:
"Hope you had a nice holiday. If I make an appointment with the counsellor, could you make it to a session this week?"

No response from me.

Not planning to respond either.

His car was at HER house last night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . I really should drive home from hockey via another route.

He will try harder to contact me if he really does want to discuss reconciliation. But I can't see why he would want to talk about reconciliation given he is still spending time with her.

I am not interested in going to counselling so that he can tell me yet again that I am dumped. (It happened at our first session with the counsellor recommended by WH's wayward affairs advisor/friend M)

Plan B has conditions. Your letter should have spelled out clearly what those conditions are....if it didn't...amend it. Conditions for the cessation of Plan B and ANY contact:

No contact letter is written to OW together.

Plan to protect WS (you) from future contact from OW or other weakness by spouse is in place. Anticipation of future problems are to be discussed and agreed upon.

True remorse has been expressed.

Commitment to taking the steps (whatever you deem as important...mb, MC etc) to improve marriage are in place.

Without these things....agreed to through the mediator....no contact...AT ALL.

Starfish,

My plan B letter (which wasn't a good one, I admit) did say quite clearly that WH was not to have contact with me until he had permantly separated from OW.

Although I have not talked to him since sending the letter, the fact that he was at her house last night would suggest that the affair is still ongoing.

I didn't list the conditions for recovery in the letter since WH himself (about a month ago) said that if we were to reconcile, he would need to go NC with OW, plus a whole host of other trust conditions (passwords, bills etc). He does know what it would take to begin recovery. He just doesn't know if our marriage is worth it!!

Until I hear from him that he has stopped seeing her, and that the reason for the counselling session is to discuss the path to recovery, there is nothing to be gained by communicating with him.

I am stumped by his request for a joint counselling session. I'm not sure how to go about finding how what he plans to discuss in the counselling session. Is it within Plan B parameters to reply to the request by asking what it is he wants to talk about and if he is still carrying on with OW? Or should I leave it up to Numbskull WH to re-read the plan B letter and that he realise needs to tell me that A with OW is finished before there I am willing to re-establish comms with him? The problem I see with this is he may take a lack of response to mean I don't want to try to work things out. He just hasn't said the right words to me, ie, that OW is gone for good - is it reasonable to expect him to know that he must say this?? Getting confused with a circular argument here!! [Some help on this Chris, Terrified &Pepperband would be appreciated]

If the counselling is just for him to go over separation issues so he can offload guilt and "move on" with Miss Pork Chop, then no way will I go. He managed to start a relationship with her, no help from me, he doesn't need me to be there for that $#^t.

Claire,

I agree if the counseling session is just to iron out the separation....than the heck with it for now. You have plenty of time to divorce him...it's the saving of your marriage that is critical right now. So the quandary is finding out what the purpose of the counseling session is without violating no contact or make it seem as though you are unwilling to work on things. Claire...to be honest, I haven't seen this particular problem arise...so let me ask you. What do you think is the purpose? If you feel as though H is leaning towards returning home then I say go to the counselor and work on the having the conditions for Plan B worked out there. If you feel strongly that this is a ruse to help his guilt...don't go. I am of the opinion that counseling is a reasonable exception to no contact....but it must really be for the purpose of counseling...not separating. If you can find out through a mediary ahead of time....then do....otherwise, you may just have to follow your instincts about his intent.

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>