I called WH last night.
12 yr.old S in crisis, depression like for a while, seemed to peak over the past several days.
Comments of killing himself and last night, "I'll be dead by morning", really has me spooked.

I really think that good visit with WH last saturday set him off, S knows what he's been missing, enjoyed WH's attention. Really feeling the abandonment, WH gone, Mom working all summer for the 1st time, big bros. gone alot....
I tried to draw him out a bit last night, took him out for supper, rented a movie, he's a tough one anyways, quiet. To make a long story short he didn't want to call WH but wanted me to, to see if he would come up this weekend...
I called, not at his apt., call his cell, he's "out".
Told WH about my concerns, told him I had a call into a counselor because I didn't want to let this go. He says, "no you shouldn't". (Where's the WE, he has two parents, or used to)Tells me he can't come this weekend (OW's kid free weekend), planning to come next weekend and can he sleep at the house fri. night so he can get a full day visit in on sat. Can I go somewhere for the night?!!!!! He caught me off guard, I said I'll consider it. But NO WAY! It confuses the kids more.
He gives me some finance info that he had called earlier about while we were out(I didn't realize he had called)Blah, Blah, your son is in crisis here, and you can't be bothered to come see him, plans with OW more important? I didn't even get into it though.
I told S that WH was planning on coming next week, S was still pretty down. I got him to bed finally, I said I'll see you in the morning, he said, "I'll be dead by morning!"
I stayed up all night, kept checking on him, tried calling WH again much later, wanted him to know this was serious not just some ploy of mine to get him here or somethng, I was scared. He was Not home, and cell phone OFF! CAn you believe that!
Today, I came home from work after only 2 hrs.,exhausted, didn't want S alone. He was still down, took him to a Dr.'s appt. for a sore throat, and talked to her about it. She agreed on the counseling.
S & I spent the afternoon together, talked about the counseling (he wasn't happy about it), but thank God, he has really come around since this morning!!! We played cards tonight, going to beach tomorrow, and I will probably take some time off next week to spend with him. I just can't worry about money right now.
I had left a message this morning for WH to call me when he got a chance. He called when we got back, but by then, I was feeling like, who needs you, what kind of person have you become, that you would put your needs before that of your child in pain! Again, I didn't get into it, just said, things are ok now, I'm fine, S is fine, goodbye.

So I'm feeling better about S, will follow through with the couseling, definately.

Backing off communication with WH again. Have many unpaid bills to question him about but will do it through go-between again.

If he cares enough about his S, and he calls,I will give necessary info only. Will not LB, even though I could ring his neck right about now!
I was very upset last night, but more at peace tonight.

Have really had about enough, Fog or no Fog, this is just too much! What has happened to this man?
A must still be going strong, no end in sight?

Divorce process looming closer? I think so.

<small>[ April 18, 2004, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Shugah ]</small>

Shulgah,
I don't know your whole story but I was about to be sick when I read this post. I am not usually extremely harsh but your husband's lack of concern for your CHILD who is about to commit suicide terrifies me and is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard. I can't imagine someone being that deep in the fog that their 12 year old is hurting so badly he would think of killing himself but the parent just has to be with the OW. Oh my goodness. I can't imagine the horror you went through in those critical hours. My dad's old girlfriend was bipolar and she killed herself 2 years ago so I have been through the pain of suicide and I urge you not only to get counseling for you and for your son, but to call a crisis center immediately or check him into a hospital for depression the minute he talks this way again. Unfortunately this burden is placed solely on you because of the incredible selfishness of your husband, and I don't know how you could make your marriage work with such a man- but the main concern is your son and please remember, you can only do so much by yourself. Seek out help. You will be in my prayers.

Wow, really sorry to hear bout this Shugah. I pray that your son will be ok. Even though he is quiet, keep trying to talk to him. I know I clam up a lot and hold in feelings when I'm down. It is definitely not a good thing to let him go on like that and counseling does sound good.

I didn't learn how to deal with my emotions and depression when I was younger and drug it with me all of my life. I'm trying to work on it, but sometimes I revert back. So getting him to understand his emotions and how to deal with it now is very important. It's easy to slip into depression and feel like no one cares and shut out the world. Just make sure he knows you care how he feels. Try to talk to him about that if you can.

Dear Shugah, no words of advice , just much sympathy. I am not in plan b yet but my H. has done the same kind of things. I am so sorry for all your pain and your S. it is so hard on them, they don't understand and 13 is bad enough without all this crap going on too. My 18yr old was in a bad car accident a mo. ago-he is doing great now-and my H. was there but the week he came home from the hospital was the 4th of july weekend and he took off for 3 days. He did call but so what-he should have been here with his family. I just think they are so afraid to tick the OW off that they will do whatever out of desperation and if that's a relationship then they can have it. It's not based on anything real and lasting. My H. is so afraid that she'll find out about us cause he knows she wouldn't put up with it, so he's traded someone who will forgive him for someone who won't. Ha ha laugh's on them I guess. We just have to be the strong ones and it is hard with kids. I'm glad your son is doing better and that you can take time off for him and be with him. Be proud of yourself because you are doing what is right and best for your family and your kids will remember that.

Shugah,
It's your choice about whether you want to work on your marriage. However, it seems too early to think about divorce. That would be even more horrible for your son.

I have sons that are struggling through this too so I really empathize with you.

What is happening is that your WS is deep in fog. I've learned from my experience and from the folks here that this behavior is typical. Think of him as being like an alcoholic. His main focus is getting another drink. The alcoholic lets everything else go. That's what WSes do when deeply involved in the A. They can come out of it. My WS is sticking his head out of the fog now although it remains all around him. They are not themselves. I always say that my WS was abducted by an alien.

<small>[ July 25, 2003, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Adgirl,
I don't want to make my marriage work with such a man, I want to make it work with my H, who was nothing like this man! That is what makes this all the scarier, that I don't have that H to share any of this with.

S is doing much better today, spent the day at the beach and went to oldest S's softball game this morning. I'll get him to counseling as soon as I can get an appt.,in the meantime I'll try to give him extra attention, we've been playing more card games, etc. He's pretty needy right now.

Mimi, it's me. You've been looking for me?

I got it Shugah. Found you.

Shugah,

On the issue of your son, listen to ADGirl. Your son is crying out for help. Do not wait on this!

On your husband, I do not know the whole circumstances (when this happened, have you done Plan A, have you tried Plan B, etc). I do know that if he is asking to stay at your house and for you to leave for a day so he can see your S, then you are allowing him to eat cake.

Sugah...time to draw some boundaries...VERY STIFF ONES! Without all the knowledge of your particular situation, I'll make a guess here on where you are at. If I am right, then it is time to go to Plan B immediately.

No you have a son together. Okay. I have three kids with my wife. But, when I went to Plan B (the kids were living with me), I found a way to make it work without compromising or without handing him big pieces of cake.

You can use an intermediary to talk through and exchange your son through. Thee need not be any contact.

If not, when you go to Plan B, then make all contact via paper or email...and ONLY on business and child issues. No relationship talk. No I love you's. When he starts to cut it off, refer him to the Plan B letter which you will have sent him, and tell him you would love to talk right after the terms of that letter have been met.

JustLearning had a great post recently. And it had to be with BSs and WSs being friends, even after divorce. Why would you want to be friends with someone that would treat you and your son this way. You would NEVER have a friend like that, I would bet. Then why be friends with the WS?

Some say for the sake of the child...but guess what? Even my 5 year old knew what was going on. What I did for the sake of my children was draw a boundary around us, not letting my wife's unacceptable behavior any where near them. And for the sake of my being able to be the father they deserved, I had to go to Plan B in order to recover myself and be the best I could be.

As the Harley's say, Plan A is when you are trying to separate the WS from the OP. Barring that, or when the WS is on the fence, then it is time to go to Plan B.

Shugah, your WH is running all over you and your son. Protect yourselves now. Protect that love ou mentioned that you still have for your real husband, not that fake imposter.

Read around on here the success stories. All of them had to go through this. Your WH is going to have to go to hell and back before he "gets it." Time that you get on with sending him there. That is if you really want your real husband back.

In the meantime, protect yourself, protect that son of yours. Pull back. Send a Plan B letter. Go Dark (my FAVORITE saying!). Do not give in. Do not call, talk to him, etc. Dont even get in the same room with him. Like I said, use an intermdiary. All contact should be thru that person, or via paper or email. Very impersonal. And no contact by you on anything outside of financial issues, and issues surrounding your son.

One more note. My wife was notorious about turning off her cell when she had the OM over her apartment. Several times, I had sick kids, or one of my sons sleep walking, crying. I tried to call and could not get her. I left a message, and didnt hear back for days.

I finally decided that as a wife, she had checked out. But also as an acceptable mother. So, I took on all roles. In the meantime, since she was still legally their mom, I made "adequate" attempts to contact her on issues surrounding the kids. But once I did, I did not try to keep finding her. Not my business. Her fault if she didnt find out or respond in time.

So, if something is wrong with your son, for example, then send a message. And that's all you do. Leave the particulars, and a way to contact you or your son, if it is an emergency. And then proceed on as if he has no father.

Because I tell you this. Your husband has been abducted by aliens, as Mimi said. Unfortunately, so has your son's father.

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Shugah:
<strong>Adgirl,
I don't want to make my marriage work with such a man, I want to make it work with my H, who was nothing like this man! That is what makes this all the scarier, that I don't have that H to share any of this with.

S is doing much better today, spent the day at the beach and went to oldest S's softball game this morning. I'll get him to counseling as soon as I can get an appt.,in the meantime I'll try to give him extra attention, we've been playing more card games, etc. He's pretty needy right now.

Mimi, it's me. You've been looking for me?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shugah,
I understand completely and hope I didn't offend you by being too harsh. I was just worried about your son. I am glad he is doing better and I hope your husband comes out of the fog- It is scary when we are with our normal husband one day, and then he becomes a complete stranger. I know he is capable of changing and I hope that he does.
Best wishes.

Mimi-Thanks for finding me!
AdGirl,Eduard, Day by Day-Thanks for your concern, and for responding!

Mortarman-thanks for your post and advice also. Sorry to waste your time on a "newbie" type response, cuz I'm not a newbie. You know me and have posted before. See Mimi's thread, it may help. Yes, my WH seems to have checked out as a father. I called him the other night, one, because that seemed to be what S wanted, to see if Dad could come up again this weekend and two, because I felt he had a right to know what was happening.
However, I now know that he may want to know, but doesn't seem to care enough to do anything to help! So I'll keep him informed, via go-between, but that's it. And my answer is definately NO, for letting him spend the night, it will only confuse the kids, and I do not want him in my home that I care about and love and make a home!

S doing much better, needs lots of extra attention though and that can be exhausting with everything else. But we're coping.
Planning some fun outings this week, taking time off from work, can't worry about the financial piece for now. It's so far gone anyways, my pittance of a paycheck doesn't do much.
I'm just upset that WH didn't call all weekend to check on S. He just doesn't get that his actions
matter. He has really checked out on his family.
This is the part that I really don't understand. I mean, I get it, the addiction, the fog, but it's so far from my reality that I can't believe that someone can disengage like this. I am so saddened by it. My family means the world to me and I can't imagine life without them (including WH), how can he move on without us in his life? Is he really perhaps so much happier that it is worth the trade-off? If so, why was I so clueless to his unhappiness? Was I just in denial? Because during periods when I wasn't thrilled with things, I never thought that life without my family was an option that would make me happier! I just would try to look for ways to get me through, to change things.
Life is tough and it just seems to get tougher every day around here. Just when things seem to ease up a bit, some other challenge comes along.

Hang in there. You are doing fine. There are a few more battles to fight before this is over. Just keep moving forward.

Remember, an affair is an addiction, hence the fog. If we were talking about the fact that your husband had left, for example, because he is a cocaine addict, and had abandoned you and your son, then you would be upset. But guess what? You would understand. You would understand that addiction does this to a person. That they have to get that high, no matter what. Go watch that Diane Lane movie that came out last year, Unfaithful. They do so well in having her show the addictive side of the OM.

Your husband is addicted to the OW. and just like an addiction to cocaine, it aint good for him. The problem is that an addict doesnt just screw up his life, he screws up those around him as well. Go to alacoholic sites, or drug user sites on the web. See what they suggest doing to counteract the actions of your husband. Then, in the text, take out "alcohol" or "cocaine" and put in "OW."

The steps to protecting yourself are the same. The steps back from his addiction are the same. Shugah, he is an addict. It is the hardest thing to understand because we dont think our WSs are addicted. That they are being rational. They are not...they are under the influence.

Hang in there...you are doing fine.

In His arms.

<small>[ July 28, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Update on S, he seems to be doing much better. We went out of state to see family earlier this week and he decided to spend the rest of the week with my brothers & families. He has been having fun, but is ready to come home.
He wants to come home tomorrow, rather than wait till the next day and catch a ride back with WH who is coming to visit anyways. I have to wonder why S doesn't want to wait and ride with him? I think S is disappointed that WH would not come to see him last week when he really needed him. WH has not called all week to check on S! He also did not return calls to my go-between friend, she finally caught up with him today(she mostly had questions regarding unpaid bills). He never even asked about S even after she told him that he may need a ride home, he just said, sure let me know if he does and what the details are.
I'm tired of wondering what is going on in what's left of WH's brain! I keep busy, not much choice there, and still, he's on my mind!
Today I am angry also, when I suppose I shouldn't be. S's friend's Dad called (he's been a good friend to S through all of this) to invite S along for the boy's 1st professional baseball game next week!! Road trip to go to Yankee Stadium first, then 2 days later, Fenway! I am thrilled for the boys but I am just disappointed and sad and angry that S's first Red Sox Game will be without his Dad! And Dad is a big sports nut! He even lives in Boston area and has not taken S to a game! I know that funds are tight but I wouldn't be surprised if WH has been to a game or two himself this season. And that would be the kicker!
I hope it feels like a kick in the gut when he finds out! I'm just so angry right now!
It's good that I am in Plan B, even though I still need to stop thinking about him so much, I'm at least not calling him and telling him what a selfish jerk he is being! I fear I will not have any love left before long if I don't see some sign of the man I once knew soon. I just need a small sign, I can't hold out much hope like this.

Hang in there, Shugah.

Reread MM's post about the addictiveness of the A. It may help to look at it like a sickness that he has in order to get rid of some of the anger.

WH picked two youngest up for a visit today, I stayed out of sight, though I caught a glimpse of him at the door and putting the kids in the car and when they pulled away, I was in tears.
I pulled myself together, did some housework and readied myself to go out for the afternoon, just window shopping type stuff.
Then WH called from the Mall, 40 min. away, asked if I could meet him there at 4pm to pick up kids. I hesitated and then said ok, (I was thinking of going there anyways but didn't tell him that). Then he said, "will you be hungry, do you want to get a bite to eat when you get here?"
I hesitated again and then said, I'd rather not.
I picked the kids up, I hardly spoke to him, I just directed my talking to the kids about what they did, bought, etc. It only took a few minutes while he said drive careful, and we left.

So what's with the invite? Just to pay me for coming to get the kids? Just 2 weeks ago, he couldn't stand my "f#*#in guts", screaming at me on the phone, "this is gonna get ugly".

Now he wants to sit across a table from me?

I'm gonna take this as my sign, albeit a small and insignificant one I'm sure. Nonetheless, it's the most I've seen in a very long while, especially since Plan B started.

When he asked me, I shouldv'e said, Are you still seeing OW?, if he said, yes, then I should have said, No. Right now I'm not sure if the A is still on, though I assume it is, but at least I would have got an answer.

So, on to living Plan B, trying not to think so much about him. Trying not to put much thought into his invitation either. It was probably nothing.
(Already S is acting out, I'm beginning to see a pattern here, after visits with Dad. Trying to sort out what's resulting from these visits and what's "normal" pre-teen crap that I got from older S's)
ANyways, I'm feeling better now than I did earlier today. Gonna go relax, put my feet up with a good book. Liked ISGirls idea of a warm bubble bath...

I think the invite was your sign. It was an attempt at cake-eating. OW is not meeting a need whether it's for conversation or the need to feel like a family man. He did not have to ask you. It was what he wanted to do. Allow yourself to think positively about it. It will lift your spirits. JMHO.

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Shugah,

Hi again. Just posted to you on my thread.

Did you ever get your S in counseling? I sure hope so; think it is really necessary. Such a difficult age in a perfect world, let alone when the parental relationship is in crisis. My S was 14 when my H and I married (I had been a single mother from the time by child was a year old). It was extremely tough on him, and in hindsight, I wish I had put him into counseling then. Instead, he had problems in late teens that I wish we had never had to go thru. And that was a marriage, not a separation!

Anyway, hope you did the bubble bath thing. I did, but never got to the toenails - I was too doggoned relaxed to take on a "chore." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do believe your H is missing you. He is still on the fence, however, and not ready to commit to you and the M, but wanted to just stick his toe in and test the water with the invitation to dinner. You did absolutely the right thing by telling him no. Think about how it would have given him a "fix" - the whole family back together, in a restaurant, having dinner. Plus it would be a safe, public place where relationship talk could be avoided. He would have really taken a big, big piece of cake! Congratulations on your strength.

Gotta run now. More later!

Just finished a letter to WH, keeping him informed about S's recent behaviour, depression, and my attempts to get him scheduled for counseling.
Don't want to be accused of not keeping him in the loop. I kept it very factual, clinical almost.
IT is so hard to keep my "opinion" out of it. But I think I did.
Plan B is hard when there is still serious stuff to communicate.
It's been hard enough pinning him down about bill that need to be paid, etc. Now this.

I'm feeling very frustrated lately with this whole Plan B thing.
I know the reasoning, I know it works, but lately I'm feeling like I need to Plan A again, tell him again and show him again that I still love him.
Maybe this lack of contact just proves to him that I've moved on and that's a good thing for him.
Maybe it's just the thing he was hoping for.
I know, he needs to get all EN's met by OW and then see it go downhill from there. But what if she can meet them all?
I feel like just reaching out once again, to see if the fog is clearing at all.
Someone talk me out of it...
I'm in a letter writing mood, or late last night, I almost called him just to say I love you and miss you. But I didn't.
It's just that I can't believe that I miss him still so much. Some nights are just so lonely.
Maybe I don't need him, maybe I just need someone, maybe I should move on, give him the D he wants, (but hasn't mentioned again for months), and find someone who can make me feel special, loved, wanted.
I'm tired of feeling this way.

I'm feeling very frustrated lately with this whole Plan B thing.
It's difficult, for sure.

Maybe this lack of contact just proves to him that I've moved on and that's a good thing for him.
Which is why in your Plan B letter you stated exactly what you were doing and why. Then there is NO misunderstanding of your intentions.

Maybe it's just the thing he was hoping for.
In a way it is. Now he doesn't have to worry about you getting in the way of his "fun."

I know, he needs to get all EN's met by OW and then see it go downhill from there.
But the point is that it's not always "fun." Reality kicks in and they have to deal with it. Bills to pay, car breaks down, dineer needs to get made, laundry, etc.

But what if she can meet them all?
Then after a while, he will see that their "relationship" is not really that different than the one you had. Except that you guys were otgether for xx years and you are actually doing something (MB) to teach you about relationships. Also, you are willing to stick it out while he is having an affair. You are giving so much for your relationship and getting nothing in return. How selfless is that?

I feel like just reaching out once again, to see if the fog is clearing at all.
It's natural to want to see something, ANYTHING for the ws.

I'm in a letter writing mood, or late last night, I almost called him just to say I love you and miss you. But I didn't.
If you aren't doing it, start a journal. You can write all these thoughts down. It helps you to get them sorted out and to help you decide on your next move(s).

It's just that I can't believe that I miss him still so much. Some nights are just so lonely.
Maybe I don't need him, maybe I just need someone, maybe I should move on, give him the D he wants, (but hasn't mentioned again for months), and find someone who can make me feel special, loved, wanted.
So now is the time to MAKE SURE you do NOT get into a situation where someone else can fill your needs.

Once you get a little taste, it's too easy to get sucked into it & forget what you are doing. Keep your mind focused on what you are doing and do it. When you are ready to divorce, you will.