Thanks Chris.
You've replied before to me when I was just "Learnin".
I think that my situation may be more difficult and hopeless because of the fact that WH has been on the road, living out of state for the better part of 4 yrs. now. Even though he was coming home frequently and I still felt part of a partnership and we talked of the future when he'd be home for good, maybe it's just been too long for him.
When he say's "I've been away too long", "We've grown apart", maybe in our situation it's true. I'm beginning to really doubt what I always believed we had. For many years we were good together, and I thought we were just making the best of a difficult situation (his having to work away) and that he still really loved me.
I still have a hard time accepting that he'd rather be away from his 4 kids, who I always thought he adored. Is she really worth it?
Maybe he is really happier?
I'm just a bit down this weekend, trying not to dwell on what was and what may never be again.

I have great kids though. Had them all here together for dinner tonight, a rare occasion these days. 18 yr. old S came by, and 16 yr. old S treated us to lobsters! WH called while they were all here, I'm glad of the timing. I answered but he just asked for 12 yr. old S, and then spoke to the other boys but he never asked for 4 yr. old D.
What the hell goes on in his head?

Hi Shugah! Love the name. Are you originally from the south? Glad to see you're back.

As you may remember, my WH moved in with OW on New Year's Eve, and I sent the Plan B letter early Feb. It's been a long trip, I've learned a lot about myself during this time. It's hard to stick to Plan B, but really, what else would be better? The WS is lost, addicted, abducted by aliens, whatever, but definitely not the person we have loved and made a life with. To get back on the rollercoaster is SO DESTRUCTIVE to the BS!

Shugah, when your WH contacts you when he is still with OW you know it makes you feel awful. Protect yourself, don't engage him. Just give him the info he needs to know about your kids, finances, etc. Just the facts, ma'am. You're doing this for you. If he decides to end it with OW, great, then you can talk about reconciliation. If he doesn't come back to you, then you'll have to adjust to the kind of life you're living now anyway. Either way, Shugah, I just don't see a better way to live during this tough time.

Please don't doubt youself about the life you and your H had all those years. It WAS real. He's just trying to rationalize/justify his actions. If he was so sure of his choice to be with OW he would have DV'd you a long time ago.

How are your kids doing? It sounds like you had a great dinner! Are you having as much rain as we are here in NY? I was thinking of you today as I mowed the lawn, it's neverending, isn't it?

Hang in there, Shugah. The A has to run its course, there's nothing you can do to speed up its demise. Tonight, after more than 7 months, I got a call from my WH, he wants to know if we can reconcile. I told him he had to end it with OW first, then call me back when he was ready, re-read the Plan B letter. You know what, I was really calm. It's because of Plan B. If he never calls again, or if reconciliation doesn't work out, I'll be OK because I've had to face the reality that I might be without him and I'll still be able to live a good life.

You can do this, Shugah!

Lablady

Me BS 48
WH 48
M 25 yrs
S 25, D 23
OW 45, widow, co-worker
WH had 2 previous A's, 15 yrs ago
This D-day 7/02
WH went back and forth btwn me and OW late last summer through Christmas
WH moves in w/OW New Year's Eve
Plan B letter sent 2/03
Very minimal contact for 7 months
8/09/03 WH calls, wants to know if we can reconcile. I'm skeptical, but I'll listen when the A is over

LL,
Is this the first time WH has called you about reconciliation?
How did that make you feel? Does it scare you, now that you have been plan Bing and getting on with your life.
I often wonder how I would feel if that ever happens. As much as I think I want my H back, I'm not sure if it would scare the hell out of me if I was faced with the possibility.
However, I still want that chance and I hope you get it too.
Keep us posted. Have you checked out ISGirls, Plan B support thread yet?

Shugah -

Yes, this is WH's first attempt to reconcile in 221 days. At first I didn't know why he was calling, 50/50 Dv or reconciliation talk. My heart was pounding until I realized he was trying to explore the possibility of getting back together, then I was in control of the sitch again.

I have MANY questions this morning. I'm scared, not so much for myself getting hurt again b/c I'll be VERY careful if this reconciliation stuff goes any further, but b/c I can't stand to think of WH going back into the hole he's dug himself. The A is just so WRONG, so DIRTY, I don't want to associate myself with it ever again.

I asked him if the A was over, he said, "If you mean the situation I've been in, no." I said well then we can't talk about US until you've ended it. Call me back when you're ready. That was it. I told him I would NEVER be a part of a triangle again.

Not sure what prompted his call at this time. Just a peek out of the fog? Test the waters? He'd done that repeatedly before Plan B. After 7 months of living on my own I am 80% OK with a Dv if that's what happens. Maybe 90%. I am so much stronger that I was last summer/fall/winter/spring. Not scared of living alone, although I admit I like having people around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I just read all of ISGirl's latest posts, false recovery is torture. I like the Plan B support group idea. My problem is that I'm such a slow writer! It takes me forever to post a reply, and I don't even have much to say! Believe me I'd write to more posters if I could get faster at it.

I'm thinking about starting a new thread. If I start now, maybe by tonight I'll have it done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope you have a good day, Shugah. Stay dry!

Lablady

Screw Plan B!
I called WH last night, I was so ticked off.
WH met 12 yr. old S outside the baseball stadium yesterday to give him some $$ and he had OW with him! First time for 12 yr. old to see her!

Now this is after I had informed him with a letter about everything that has been going on with S's emotions? did he think I was making it up?

I asked WH, are you not sensitive at all to your children's feelings or needs? He says yes he is. He trys to explain away how OW's being there was not supposed to happen, he was going to walk down to S's bus, but that S and friends were already walking towards the car, and OW of course was outside the car. Bull#*%*! WH did nothing to make sure she was not there, she should not have even have been with him, they only live a short distance away.

Then he goes on to say that he wants to come up sat. or sun. (which is best for me?) and that he wants to take 2 youngest to the amusement park. ANd could I meet them there(just like his last visit with them to the mall!) so that he didn't have to drive the hour back to bring them home???? I said no. He goes on to say how I want him to see the kids more, but I won't HELP HIM OUT!!!! HUH?
That got to me! I said,help you out?, who helps me out? Do you ever wonder how I get through my day, every day, getting everything done, working, taking care of the kids? And 2 days out of the month you come to see two of the kids and you want me to help you out?
He also wanted to know if 16 yr. old S could meet him to pick up the kids? He never spends any time with the older kids, so how does that make them feel, that Dad only wants to see them if they can Help him out?
At one point I asked him if ever takes into consideration the best interest of his kids? He says, Of course? I said you didn't when you decided to leave your family. There was complete silence for a long time.
He made the usual comments about how I'm just trying to make him look bad,(so sick of that one), how he wants to see the kids more but that I won't let him take them for 2 days (S does not want to go)or let him stay at the house and I told Wh that he knows that I am protecting my kids from meeting OW and that reality is that when you divorce you don't get to stay at my house! He has no answer to that.
He also asked why I could call him, he thought I didn't want to talk to him(planb), he said he got a tongue lashing from friend when he called me but I can break the rules. I said that's right, because they're MY rules, set up to protect me, and if I break them, I'm the one who pays dearly for it. By this time I was crying and ended the call.
Yeah, so I screwed up Plan B, get out the 2x4's, I was upset for a little while last night, but I'm ok this morning. Just very frustrated and sad.

Shugah,

Okay, so you called him. Did you break Plan B? Sort of. You see, you have children. And so far, you have set up a system where the two of you could interact concerning them. But, him bringing OW around them was a huge over-the-line deal! So, in my opinion, I believe he needed the butt chewing.

Look, Plan B is all about giving him reality AND protecting you. But in Plan B, you still have to be Mom. You still have to protect those kids from your husband and his insanity right now. I have seen what happens when someone hurts a woman's children. There is nothing fiercer (is that a word?).

I think your husband got the message. I think he now knows a few key things...

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He knows that you are serious about your children & WILL protect them.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He now is thinking about what you said about how you are there and does he think about what is going on day-to-day while he lives in Fantasyland.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The whole conversation was a dose of reality for him.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have now drawn even tighter boundaries, because you are limiting ANY help by you for him (this is a GREAT thing...let him do ALL the work in seeing the kids...why help him when he is going to do stupid things like bringing the OW around them?).</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shugah, I think this might have helped both of you. He has seen that you are not a doormat. He now knows that you wont help him in any way, even with seeing his kids. If he wants to see them, then HE can make the effot and do all the work. And of course, no way that man steps one foot back into your house.
It helped you because I think, with the tighter boundaries, you will do even better in Plan B. look, did he say anything about the OW and how he thought it might be GOOD for the kids to meet her? No! He KNOWS it isnt right. He KNOWS that the kids dont want to meet her. He knows his relationship with her is wrong on so many levels.

Instead, he makes excuses like he did. Shugah, he is still living the Big Lie. He is still trying to make himself believe it. And you. But you didnt fall for it.

Reality WILL step in soon. I can promise you that. Once it does, you will then find out what caliber of husband you have. Until reality steps in, stay in Plan B. Go back to the darkness for him. he tried to do a stupid thing, and you fired a warning shot across his bow. He now knows that you are going to be a woman to reckon with if he continues down this road.

Let him stew on this for awhile. You just calm down and go back to work on your family.

The problem is still his!

In His arms.

Thanks so much MM for getting back to me so soon.
I'm always uptight after such a phone call.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you seem to be about seeing something break soon.
I just really think he may be happy with his life and sees no reason or way to come back.

I'll retreat back into PLAN B and try to remain there as much as possible.

I know you thought at times that your W had really traded in her life for good, but yet you kept to the Plan and she came back.

I still find it hard to believe that the Fog has settled in so thickly and that WH cannot see beyond himself!!

Hope things are getting better for you & Mrs.MM, I know you had hit a bit of a bump in recovery. Take care.

Hey Shugah...no problem.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks so much MM for getting back to me so soon. I'm always uptight after such a phone call.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As you should be. After all, you are human. it is what you DO now that will make all the difference.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I could be as optimistic as you seem to be about seeing something break soon. I just really think he may be happy with his life and sees no reason or way to come back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Look...I have NO crystal ball here. He COULD be happy. I mean, while the stats are astronomically against them working out, there are the 5% that do make it. Maybe him and the OW are part of that? There is no real way to know right now.

This is EXACTLY why you are in Plan B. He needs to find out if he is in that 5%. He needs to KNOW the reality of the situation. How things will be with her...and more importantly, how things will be with you and the kids. I think your butt chewing was a huge dose of reality and will go a long way towards knocking down any myths he might have about everyone getting a long like some big happy family. Just another dose of reality.

He takes that back into his relationship with the OW. Up to now, he could count on you helping him out so he could get his weekly or biweekly fix with the kids. Now, he has no such assurances. He now has to work at maintaining his position as Dad. but wait a minute...he was having so much fun in Fogland being single and living a life of no responsibility, right? Shugah...this reality you have shown him can only HURT their relationship! Maybe they will overcome that. Maybe he will ignore the children further. Maybe this will push him further away. Who knows?

But you have to go this route. As Coffeeman has told me many times, this is the route to save your marriage. It is also the route towards divorce and getting on with your life. While it is one road, you really have no idea where it will end up. That is up to your husband, in large part. But the fact you are walking down that road means you are one day closer to this being over with. And he is one day closer to coming out of the Fog. When I said "what caliber your husband is," I meant that once he is out of the influence of the Fog, and clearly sees reality, if he is a good man, and a man of any integrity, he will KNOW what to do. If not, then he will continue down the road he started. And you will have a new life, one without such a dishonorable man in it.

So, you see? You win either way. You either get back the husband you deserve. Or you get your life back, free to maybe find a man that WILL be that man that you deserve. Now that you are in Plan B, you are no longer under the siege of the affair. YOU are in control, and you showed it quite well to your husband on the phone. This is "war." You have sent the surrender terms to him. He has only two choices. He can do as it says, and you have promised him fair treatment. Or he can chose not to...in which then you will make the decision to "finish him off" and move on. The first way, you BOTH win (as well as your children!). The second...you win.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll retreat back into PLAN B and try to remain there as much as possible. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I HATE that word "retreat." You are in control here. You aren't retreating anywhere. He is the one on the ropes. He is the one that has to surrender. All you did is fire a warning shot, telling him that he either stays where he is at, or drops his weapons and gives up. Any other activity will be met with the full brunt of Shugah. so, your position is still very much where it was before. In the meantime, he just had some "rounds" go buzzing by his head. He ducked back in his foxhole, knowing you are serious. Like I said before, the problem is still his. He no longer has the ability to start an offensive against you. You have him outgunned, and with friends, family, MB, etc...you have him outgunned. (remember folks...this is all analogy...no violence is being contemplated here!). So, no retreat for you. You are standing your ground. It is he that has retreated for now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you thought at times that your W had really traded in her life for good, but yet you kept to the Plan and she came back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She was TOTALLY convinced that what she was doing was right, and that she was happy. Such is what the addiction of the Fog will do. She was in the foxhole, and still thought she could win the war. It takes awhile for reality to seep in and them to understand that they really have no ability to win this now…only surrender offers the hope that life might get better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still find it hard to believe that the Fog has settled in so thickly and that WH cannot see beyond himself!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you do! All of us BSs do. We are not under the influence. We have not been there. That is why it is so insightful to hear from the FWSs on here. Now that they have exited the Fog, they can tell you what it was like in there. Your husband is acting no differently than 99% of the WSs that I have heard about.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hope things are getting better for you & Mrs. MM, I know you had hit a bit of a bump in recovery.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, thanks for the encouragement. I too am on the same road as you…just a few miles ahead. So, I can radio back to you and tell you what the road is like, and which pot holes to avoid. I must do the same with some one that is ahead of me, that has been through recovery and understands these nuances. My wife actually has been keeping track with me this week on how many days it has been since we blew up, or I pulled back. It has been 6 so far. The last couple of days have been great, although we have had a few discussions that really have helped get some more things into the open (I will post on my thread). But I wanted you to know that even though you aren't where I am at, encouragement and prayers go a long way. For all of us.

In His arms.

Well, I (very) respectfully disagree with Mortarman. I have many of the same issues with my H, and if I had done what Shugah did, he would just be thinking what a b*tch I am. He wouldn't be thinking about the "issues" at all.

What's helped me in my near-Plan B is giving up the idea that I'm going to "win" in any conversation right now, that I'm going to make any points.

Any issues I bring up are going to be seen as weird, and strange. Something that OW and H can discuss to make their R more real -- since opposing me, I think, is what gave them a sense of excitement from the beginning.

I have to be a complete sofa cushion, and there have been a lot of hurtful things going on. OW is going to be in the picture. I would resign yourself to that. H is going to need to do that to legitimize their relationship. In this case, my teens can drive -- so they visit H & OW for dinner.

Do they like it? I suspect not, because it seems to be happening more and more infrequently. (I say "I suspect" because I would never put pressure on them by asking.) I am putting my energy into making THIS home warm and loving -- a refuge for kids and stepkids, a place they want to be.

It appears I have been successful. They want to be here. H says it is "more appropriate" for his kids to be living with him. I didn't say, "Maybe they don't want to live with you and your latest OW. A home is not the place where your dad is shacking up. It's a place where kids feel loved and cared for and have some history."

He can figure that on his own, without my input. If I SAY that to him, it will be something to be argued with and rebutted. It something he will rationalize. But the problem is, my H is sublimating a lot of issues, and it will take a long time for him to confront them, if ever.

He has to argue with HIMSELF, not with me. And by offering no resistance, I hope I am furthering that process. I do think that's part of Plan B.

So yes, I am being a "doormat" in some ways. But more and more that household is being quarantined, and I am psychologically and physically less accessible to him. As we used to say in the Vietnam era, time to bring the war home. And the war is inside him.

Mortarman, you're free to 2X4 me, if you like!

A.M.M.

P.S. And I didn't bring up that what would have been "appropriate" would be not to have started an A!

<small>[ August 11, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Another postscript: I do have the feeling H & OW are trying to provoke me, to justify what they are doing. There is a big, empty space if I don't react. Suddenly, they aren't the "calm, normal" ones, and I'm not the freaking b*tch they are blaming, and that H has consistently tried to portray me as. I won't play that game. Are you? (I ask sincerely, since your sitch may be different.)

Don't help at all with childcare. He has to see that HE has withdrawn from the kids, and stop blaming you. I would just invent excuses, rather than trying to get him to see how hard your life is. "Gee, I'd love to, but I have to go to work that afternoon, and pick up X from school, and meet with the utilities repairman..." Show, don't tell. That way he can maybe SEE what your life has become, without having to respond to you confronting him with it. That way he will have to confront himself, without defending himself to you.

A.M.M.,

No 2x4 here!!! I think we are actually closer to each other in our thinking than you might believe.

I do not believe that you should, or Shugah, or anyone else in this situation, berate your WS. I did it several times, and it only met disaster First off, it doesnt work...it makes things worse. Second, as you stated above, they wouldnt understand it anyway, while in the Fog. So, I agree with you.

What I was trying to say was there are things that you cannot compromise on. What are they? I guess they depend on the individual. Some will not let their WS come anywhere near their home. Some want only a third person to mediate between them. Almost all demand that the OP not be near their children. Whatever the conditions are, these are boundaries that have been set by the BS in order to protect them, and to protect their children.

Again, each BS is different. Some need high, reinforced walls. Some only need a chain link fence. But whatever the boundary, it MUST be respected. As Dr. Dobson writes in "Love Must Be Tough," one of the biggest things that causes marital strife, affairs, divorce, etc is a loss of respect for each other. What is demanded in order to fix the problem is that the spouse begins to show his/her spouse respect.

The first way this can be done is drawing boundaries and not giving an inch. The WS may not like them. It may make them VERY angry! But guess what? They cannot deny they are there. And they cannot deny that they must respect them. One of the first things my wife said to me when she decided to come home was that the first reason she entertained the idea was that I began to stand up to her. I asked her when that was. She said it was somewhere around mid-December (EXACTLY when I started my plan B). When I wouldn't back down from my boundaries, when I tenaciously tried to protect my children from them by demanding that the OM NEVER be near them, she began to learn that I was not spineless…that I was not a doormat. No one respects a doormat. I told my children that if the OM was ever around them, that they were to tell me immediately. My wife was crazy with anger! But inside her, she was beginning to become "crazy" with respect for me. And it is that respect that leads to reconciliation and healing.

So, I think we ultimately agree that it is not good to be unloading on our spouses. But especially in Plan B (in Plan A, there is some cause for being LIKE a doormat), there must be boundaries set up. Walls, if you will. And when we build walls, they MUST be protected…otherwise, they arent really boundaries. And the WS no longer respects those boundaries, nor the person who set them up.

I hope that clears things up!

In His arms.

A.M.M.,

Your post script was GREAT! I agree entirely.

The reason I feel that there is a time when you "launch" is that as long as they havent crossed your boundaries (whatever they are), then you can do the things that you are talking about. But should they cross those boundaries, then they should be met with all the force you can muster.

If WS wants to drive by the house and see how everyone is, fine. Just wave and watch him drive by. If your boundary is as long as he is with OW that he wont enter that house, then if he attempts to even set one foot in the door, he will be met with a stern rebuke, with telling him he must leave, or be arrested.

As long as the boundaries that the BS has set up havent been crossed, then what you are talking about is exactly what she could do. But, when they cross the lines that she has set in order for her to regain control of her life, then it must be met with "force." Otherwise, they wont respect one thing about you, nor your boundaries. And thus, the boundaries are meaningless.

In His arms.

<small>[ August 11, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

I get it, and I appreciate the dialogue.

A.M.,
WH lives 2.5 hrs. away, hard to show him much, but he KNOWS what I do, and that I've been doing it for several years now since he's been working out of state. He's even admitted on several occasions that I've got the "hard" job. He just wants to forget that sometimes and sometimes I need to remind him. Whether it gets through or not is debatable. But I think it does.

I've just got to stick to those boundaries like MM says. I find that even when I'm setting and defending those boundaries I'm still a soft touch, but that's me I guess. I want to work at really being clear when I speak and act regarding this, sometimes I get emotional and I lose the message.

I'm sending out a package of Bills and mail today. Thinking about including a short note to reiterate what I was saying last night in case I was not clear. Or should I just leave it. Any thoughts?

Shugah,

Yes, send a letter. It should be the PBL. If you need to strengthen the part about your boundary of not having the OW near the kids, then do so. Add what you need to to reinforce that, then send the PBL again. Consistency is your friend here. It will help him to begin to respect you again. So, anytime something like this happens, send the PBL.

Remember, the PBl is a love letter. It speaks of your love, and trying to save it. In order to save it, you must now erect boundaries to him and OW. One of those boundaries is that you will have NC with him (except kid-related issues or finances) until OW is gone. That is a boundary. Another for you might say that in order to protect the children also, that you do not want the OW anywhere near them.

So, the PBl is a letter, reiterating your love, giving your husband a light in the fog. But it is also about setting boundaries in order to protect your love for him. And you cant be protecting that love if he is destroying your children by bringing the OW around. so, the boundaries must be defended.

Dont worry about being "soft" on your defense of those boundaries. It shows that you still care and still love him. But, he must always understand that should he break through a boundary, then he will meet with different Shugah...one he WILL respect, though he may not like at the time.

Keep up the good work. You are one day closer to where you should be!

In His arms.

When I said, "Show, don't tell," I didn't mean that it couldn't be done with words, though non-verbal stuff and actions are best. Just tell him, neutrally, the list of things that prevent you from jumping in to help HIM meet the kids, rather than telling him how hard your life is. Just give him the raw data, without emotion. He'll more likely get the picture if it's not in-yo'-face.

Mortarman, thanks for your post -- however, I could be wrong, I think H is going to try in whatever way to wriggle OW into life with the kids, and she will certainly try to prove what a great OW she is by being mom to the kids. This is odious, but part of the mechanics of the situation. It just seems like a set-up for fighting, though I could be wrong. You can draw a line in the sand that may prevent the most egregious violations, but I would expect violations.

AMM,

I agree with you. Really! As I posted on your thread, all responses to incursions across boundaries should be measured. You dont need a "backhoe" when a shovel will do.

But, defending a boundary has to have some penalty if it is broken. otherwise, it isnt a boundary. Should we expect incursions? Sure. But the more "pain" felt by the WS when they do cross our boundaries, the less likely they will do so in the future. The more consistent and measured we are in the application of those "penalties," the greater likelihood that the incursions will eventually stop altogether.

But let even the small incursions go across your boundaries means that they will ALWAYS make small incursions. If they make a small incursion, they should meet a small penalty. If they make a large incursion, then they should meet a full frontal assault. Of course, always in love and always measured. And calm, if possible.

The WS will always push, like a child, to find out where their boundaries are. And if you give them three feet, they will try to take four. If you allow no incursions, then they may try...but over time, they will realize they have no incursion space. And they will begin to respect you and your boundaries.

And this is good whether you get back together OR divorce.

In His arms.

<small>[ August 11, 2003, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Shugah -

So sorry your S met OW! What a shock for the poor kid. Did he talk to you about it afterwards? How's he doing?

My D(23) met OW at a family gathering late June. She was not told OW would be there. She acted cordially at the party, then cried all the way home. She called her brother (25) to tell him what happened. We all felt that WH had crossed the line. S contacted his father and told him to never disrespect our family like that again. It may be one of the reasons WH has contacted me, he sees that his plan of making a happy family complete with his kids and OW isn't going to work.

I think by calling your WH you did what my S did, let WH know that his fantasy is doomed. It takes a toll on your nerves, though. How are you today? You will feel better if you return to your strong Plan B, reinforcing that this isn't going to be easy.

Lablady

Can't get use to the name LOL

Justy wanted to stop in as I am following your thread since the beging ,, I want to say you are doing great , MM is right you are traveling down the path all par for the course ..
I don't have much to give ya as I see the best are in place here ..

I wanted to say I think it sucks that S had to see OW ,, I know first hand having small children its tough .. And I want to comment to what you said, about WH not talking to your D on the phone .

My D was that age while FWH was out of the house , he seemed to pay attention to my S more this pissed me off alot .. But I started to notice it was cause my D seemed to have no interst in him the way she did when he was home ,, so this hurt him deeply ,, so he choose to distants himself alittle more from her then S ..
Thinking she was to young and DIDN"T understand .. that was mistake cause when it came down to it she spoke her mind ,, WH may cut his nose to spight his face ...

Also on topic of them being around OW ,, well I am only saying what I did down the line in PLAN B ,NOT THAT IT WILL BE ANYONES CHOOSE ,, but I was sick of him being on fence ,, so when I spoke to OW and she told me that I am a B!TCH because I won't let FWH GET ON WITH HIS LIFE by them meeting ......I simpley informed BOTH of them that she could very well meet my children I didn't mind at all ..... As soon as FWH would start Div. papers and sit down with all 3 of us (me, ow,& FWH ) and tell kids we are D'ing and it is because daddy is in love with OW ..

WELL that caused OW to LB all over cause FWH would never tell kids we where D'ing cause he never intended to LOL

SO now she was LB and he was running out of lies cause he told her I was the B!ITCH and wouldn't give him a D .. lol

MY point is sometimes when you give them kindness there A starts to end faster cause OW starts to see your not a B!TCH and starts to see all the lies WS is telling and they have nothing but a hidden secret not a relationship ..

I took a gamble but was ready for D just to stop the rollercoaster . Also I KNEW that man and it wasn't him (((FOG)))
he would show light once in a while so I knew when to push ..

JMVHO ,,, TRY as hard as possiable not to yell even when it comes to kids ,, I feel this gives them to much to talk about ,, to much for OW to use giving him the poor baby speech ,your W what B!tch .. GET my point

Ok got to go H home early sneaking up on me I love it !!!!!!!!!!

Hi guys & gals,
Thanks so much for everyones support and comments today. I really needed it!
3is- yeah the name is somethin huh? I couldn't think of anything, H used to call me sug, as in short for sugar, and so, Shugah was born. No I'm not southern belle!
I'm feeling better. In control for the most part. S seems ok despite seeing OW for the first time, it was only a 2 minute encounter I'm told and not even an introduction. I need to discuss this with him, but not sure how to persue it, as I've always felt that I didn't want to play the good guy vs. bad guy game with the kids. However, the more I think about it I feel the following. IF WH were doing drugs in front of my kids, I would not hesitate to protect them and explain to them the danger of his choices and the lack of judement that is a result of doing that drug, which is why he is doing it in front of them. His addiction for the drug overpowers his senses and doesn't allow him to see clearly how it is hurting the ones he loves the most.
It is the same with his addiction to OW, his choices are hurting those he loves. He just can't see how he is doing that nor does he know how to stop it. All we can do is hope and pray that he will.
In the meantime, we still love WH and have to try to understand what is happening and do the best we can to not let it affect our lives.
I just want to keep the communication open, so that they don't turn it in on themselves.

Shugah-

I really like the explanation of WH's behavior you've come up with for your kids. It's kind, because you've likened it to a sickness or addiction, yet firm, because you have included that you have to try and keep it from affecting your lives. It's a lot like Plan B. How about also telling them that you are waiting for WH to come back to his family and that it's what you really want, if you haven't already. My kids have told me to leave their father and get on with my life, but I know they'd love to have their family back if possible.

Communication is so important with kids, especially teenagers. They're having a difficult time just being that age, and now this A thing has come into their lives. You are their rock now, Shugah, as hard as it is to go it alone. You are the one that will show them how to act in tough circumstances. Sometimes it helps me do the right thing when I remember that I am setting an example for my kids. An A is not acceptable. Period. You are letting your kids know that you don't approve of WH's actions, even while you still love him. How does it go - love the sinner, hate the sin? I'm hoping that my kids will not repeat the mistakes their father has made. My WH's father cheated on his mother for 20 years and everyone still honored him. I wonder if WH expected the same treatment his father got. Surprise!

Well, just letting you know I'm here tonight. Hang in there!

Lablady