Haven't posted in a week but I've done lots of lurking.
Not much here, WH was up yesterday to see the kids. He drove 2.5 hrs for a 3.5 hr visit, go figure. How can this be enough for him? The few minutes I was in his presence he was friendly, asked for an old tool belt in the basement, commented about what they did on their outing. He never mentioned the letter I sent last week with copy of PBL to restate boundaries concerning the kids around OW.
WH & kids went out for pizza, S told me later that WH asked what kind Mom liked cuz there would be plenty of leftovers so we should get something she likes?? They brought home a whole extra pizza.
I miss him still so much, and I wonder if he'll ever miss us enough to want to come back and be a famly again. Every day, week, month that goes by, I can't help feel that he is that much further away from us. Every day I just wonder, should I just go ahead and file for D? Every day, I think, no, I'll hold out just a little longer. IT's been 8 mos. since D-Day.
I want to have faith in the love that I KNOW he had for me for so long. How can he just forget and not feel that anymore. Even after all he's done and said I can't forget and not feel my love for him.
It's beautiful out today, finally the rain has ended, just in time for my vacation! Got up early last 2 mornings with the kids to see the Hot Air Balloons lift off at 6am. 4 yr. old so excited, couldn't help think, Dad should be here with us, to see how happy she is. IT was fun.

Shugah,

Don't give up. I have been thinking and wondering about you. It's almost 8 months since my D-Day, too. What a crazy time!!!

Hang in there!!!!

I screwed up big time tonight.
I just don't have the patience for this, and I lose sight of the big picture.
WH called to make plans for visiting the kids this weekend.
After we made those arrangements I chatted a bit more, well alot more than I should have.
I said that we just got back from a Parent/Athlete meeting at the High School. They had a very excellent motivational speaker who emphasized the need for our kids to have role models with integrity, character and commitment.
WH said, "well that rules me out!"
I told him that we all missed him and that I love him. He said he knows, and that he misses "the kids" too, and that he wants to see them more, but that I won't let him by not letting him come into the house and spend time with them or take them down to his city. I said that's not possible, it's not in their best interest to have them around OW, or to confuse them by having him in our home. I said I'm sorry that I can't help make it easier for him to see his kids.
He said, well short of me coming home, what do you want me to do. I said, that whether he sees them 2 or 4 days a month, it will still leave a whole in their hearts when he drives away, they will still be missing something when he is not here for them on a daily basis.
I got into the whole thing about how I don't get to start over without responsibilities the way he does, or how he loved me once and that he was committed to his family. He said, he's been gone a long time now, I answered that people are separated all the time and get back together.
Bottom line, he said he's in love with another woman and we're just going to have to deal with it.
I didn't get upset, I remained calm, but I knew the whole time that I was screwing up bigtime.
Oh well, I really have had little hope lately anyways, so probably no big damage done. It was going nowhere anyways.

I'm calling it quits! I called WH told him I'll file by the end of the week. He said to wait till the bankruptcy process is over. I said, that shouldn't make any difference.
Then I told him, I'll be down in a few weeks to start looking for an apt. in his area! Although the kids will freak out to have to move, I figure they'll get over it. (WH uses that as his motto.) So they need counseling now anyways, they can just deal with this too.
I think it makes perfect sense. The kids can see their Dad more often(unfortunately OW too, but let's face it, it's sooner or later right?)
I'm feeling resentful because I'm left being the responsible one, this will give me a major life change opportunity! From country girl, to city life, start living it up a little too! Life's too friggin short to sit around here, in a home and life that is full of memories hoping for something that isn't going to happen.
I'm actually wide awake, excited about the possibilities. Hey, like WH says, D happens all the time, well people move all the time too. It can't be that much worse for the kids than what is already happening to them. And they'll be closer to Dad.
Of course, I'll have to get rid of the pets, put the house on the market(after bankruptcy), start checking out the schools. I won't limit my search to WH's city, but will check out the surrounding towns as well. Although it would be much more convenient for everyone if we are close by!
I won't tell the kids right off, too much excitement with school just starting and all. I'll do my homework first then inform them of my decision. And I'm not going to feel guilty about it. No one else seems to feel guilty about making decisions that affect everyone elses lives without ever asking for their input.
Instead of me sitting here trying to adjust my life to being without WH, now he and OW can figure about adjusting to life with me and the kids next door!!
That'll put a little twist on their fantasy!
But really I don't even care about that anymore, I looked at photos tonight, and usually I get all emotional, this time it was like, who is this Man? I don't even like who he is anymore. And let's face it, the H I knew is never coming back.
I'll be an hour and a half closer to my family too. Although I'll have to mend some bridges in that direction first.
So, that's that. Tomorrow mornning I'll wake up and think, what am I crazy? Maybe, Maybe not, it's hard to tell anymore. Maybe crazy is really thinking that WH would actually change his mind, realize how much he loved and missed us and come back! Now that's crazy!

BUmp

Shugah,

PLAN B worked for you! Be careful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> for what you hope for. You are at exactly at the place that I was when decided he wanted to try to come back.

I like your PLAN, though. Whatever it's called,A B C or D, it sounds good for you.

Luv Ya. Hang in there.

Ok, so I tried selfish on for the day to see how it fit.
It doesn't feel as good as I wanted it too.
I know that I would be making this move for all the wrong reasons and it would wreak havoc on the kids world (more so than already!) And I just couldn't do that to them.
Someone has to be the responsible, selfless, self-sacrificing parent and I guess I've been nominated.
I need to accept my lot in life and make the best of it.

Actually I liked the idea of you moving the kids closer to their Dad. It seemed like a responsible thing to do. Plus, will that make you happy? That's what's important. The happier you are, the happier they will be. That's what I have learned about my sons lately.

Actually, it wouldn't be good for the kids, except the youngest maybe.
16 yr.old is a junior this year, into sports, etc., he would fight it tooth and nail.
And 12 yr.old, well he once said not too long ago, that if we sold the house, he would live in a cardboard box in the yard. He doesn't like change, and loves where we are. He's an outdoors type too, would not adjust to city life, easily.
This move would be 2.5 hrs away. I'd like to think that the change would be good for me, but would it really? Away from my support network.
Would WH really be any more responsible or helpful? Probably not. That's the sad truth.
After 2 weeks of not seeing his kids, does he miss them enough to get up at the crack of dawn to drive here and spend a whole day? No. He gets here at noon or later, spends 3 hrs.
But yet he wants me to feel badly about not making it easy for him.
Truth is, I'd move heaven and earth if I thought it would help my kids. WH will not! And I would not be making this move for the right reasons. I would be doing it thinking I could make WH & OW miserable, but it would just hurt the kids.
I'm just at a bad point right now, frustrated, not seeing much hope, and feeling sorry for myself, wanting to be able to do something that just benefits me, not having to worry about anyone else....that's just not possible. I'd probably be miserable in the city.
Maybe not.
I just can't be making a decision like this when I am so emotionaly charged.
Although last night it did feel good to think about making such a move...if I didn't think about the kids....Today I feel differently?

Just as long as you do what's best for you and your kids right now.

I sure know how it is with the mood swings and the roller coaster rides from A to Z with our thoughts and emotions.

Like I've been saying, this is awful for us!!!

it wouldn't be good for the kids
Why wouldn't it be good for them?

Just because they are in sports and "have a life" does not mean moving would be bad for them.
Having even a "sort of" relationship with their father is going to be much more of an influence on them than having to move & get new friends and sports.

Something to think about...

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Come on Chris!
You don't think that a 16 yr. old wouldn't be resentful that he has to give up his world(remember the importance of a 16 yr.old world)to be closer to a Dad that "chose" to be 2.5 hrs. away? He already thinks his dad is a loser for what he's done. And I'm supposed to be able to convince him that it will be great to live closer to Mr. Loser. (HIs deduction, not mine!, he knows I love WH and has told me to just Divorce his @ss!)
You think that a shy 12 yr.old would enjoy starting all over, on the off chance that he'd get a Dad that shows even a little interest?
At what point do these kids have to stop making the sacrifices and enduring the pain and putting in the hard work, to make it easier for Dad?
Ok, so if you were trying to play devil's advocate to make me realize the error of my 24 hr. decision, you've succeeded. If you weren't, then I'd have to say, you don't actually understand the pain that these kids and myself are going through.
We have been the ones busy investing and building a life that we though WH was longing to get back too, but now that he has apparantly been building his elsewhere, we are supposed to make the sacrifice to follow? At what risk? Have you ever moved as a child? Have you ever moved a child, especially one already on emotional overload? Already their lives have been turned upside down and you expect to further disrupt their lives.
What about their sense of security, stability, in a world that offers little of both. This is the only time in their lives that they should be able to enjoy that. Their lives should be simple not complicated.
Ok, I get it, I've convinced myself! I wanted to know what it felt like to be completely self-absorbed, only thinking about how a decision affects me and not wanting to have to care about anyone elses feelings. It's just not possible for me to do! And that is the hardest part for me, I can't understand how it is possible for WH!
How do you completely misjudge someone for 20 yrs?

Chris knows "the pain".

Making big life changing decisions while in severe emotional pain ... may not be wise.

Any harm in moving ahead more slowly and with some non-emotional planning?

Pep

Shugah - let me be up front. I'm a WH.

I've been on this site while struggling with this chaos I've created in my life. I've been here arguing my righteousness to no avail to bunch of people who I thank now for not quitting on me.

This is my story, though abbreviated, of what my actions have wrought. Some here may agree or disagree with some of my thought processes here. But it’s where I am and I thought maybe your H may benefit from reading my story. The trick is getting him to read it.

_______________

I've been jerked back into reality by something rather unpleasant and for the first time I see the fog for what it is. This will be a revelation to some who have been following my insanity here on MB.

Your H is selfish beyond any ability to measure. And what your thread suggests I think is true in deeper ways than you may even know.

I don't know your H, but I know me.

Over the years in my marriage I have been trying to tell myself that things are falling apart. And things were, for any number of reasons, all of which are valid in their own right. But that’s another story. My point is... I never thought of myself as a selfish person. I believed that I was the one doing all the work to try to make our relationship work... I felt like she didn't care. What happened to me is that over time... I slowly quit trying. the truth as I'm seeing it now after many hours of introspective though is that what I've been doing all these years was NOT trying to save my marriage but rather LEARNING how to be OK with being selfish.

Is my wife responsible to some extent, sure? It takes 2, no matter what anyone says, to build OR destroy a marriage. It's all in your capacity toward selflessness. Yes that is the right word: selflessness.

My infidelity was actually quite easy to justify by the time I decided to cross the line. The Fog is truly a powerful powerful thing.

Your H is caught up in a device that has no doors, no seams, no means to breath and is impervious to the sharp sword of logic. The only thing he can see is what is inside the device. Himself. The reality, from my perspective is that he doesn’t even really see the OW. He just KNOWS how he feels. And it feels good. For the WS, that makes the inherent selfishness moot.

For me, the repercussions of my selfishness were easily brushed off with surface level solutions. I failed however to truly scrutinize the effects my actions were having on my young son and nothing my wife could say would make me believe it. Even talking to my 5 year old son (only child) about daddy being gone and asking how he was about that failed to bring anything to the perceivable surface.

The folks here... recently echoed what my counselor told me the other day... they said I needed to spend more time with myself. Just myself... Thinking... looking inwardly. And you know what Shugah? One person I can't escape or lose sight of within the deadly fog is me. I had already been on a very long drive and during that time alone, the thoughts I struggled with were monumental. I went to the counselor and she said to 'meditate... look inside of you..' I laughed at her and told her that sounded like NewAge tripe. And she didn't say a word; she was just quiet. Before I knew it, right there in her office, I was looking inside. At first I smiled at memories with the OW. Then, slowly, and much to my horror, the sheer scope and breadth of the destruction and the malignant carelessness with which I handled those I love came to the fore. It was so overwhelming that I began to sob and I couldn't stop.

The only way that I can fathom your husband escaping this, in my own experience, is to look within. I know... I KNOW... he sees what he is doing to you and your children... I know he knows it's wrong... deep down, beneath the slow sweet poison of the A that fogs the mind with such thrilling sensuality and fulfillment, he knows.

Time alone.. forced to be alone in a car for hours, without her... gave me salient and painful glimpses of my depravity. Even that alone wasn't enough to turn me though... I'm a stubborn man. Given time, I would have come out... because those glimpses acted as a slow antidote... a caustic solvent that began to corrode the device that enslaved my mind.

It took a catastrophe in my life to wake me up. At this point in this disaster of my own life, I’m not sure how I will ever fully recover. I don’t need to go into details of this terrible thing.. That’s just drama. I’ve had enough drama and I have plenty more coming.

It wasn't worth it Shugah. All I want to do now is be able to sit on my back patio with friends and smile and laugh like I used to with a genuine, deep laugh that was food for my soul. Now I can laugh… I can even fake the deep hearty laugh. But my soul aches and I’m so disgusted with myself that even while I laugh, my mind is screaming calling me terrible things all of which are accurate descriptions of what I have become through this wretched thing I’ve done.

My OW shared this quote with me in the beginning of this tragedy. I was further gone than she was by then. She quoted the philosopher in what I know now was an attempt to get me to back away from a thing she knew she couldn’t resist. Likely her own means of justification. Who knows?


"The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the full light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny...it is the light that guides your way."
-- Heraclitus


If only I’d have been able to apply the powerful simplicity of these words. The OW was not my destiny… my integrity was… now… I’m very much afraid that my soul may never bear the full light of day.

So I hope, for your H’s sake, it doesn't take a catastrophe in his life to bring him home again. I will pray for that… and Shugah… I’m not the prayin’ type. But while I beg for my own forgiveness, I’ll drop a line for you. OK?

-TMD

TMD,

Well, I was going to add a post, but I am overwhelmed by yours. I'm a BS, and I can only hope my WH soon experiences the clarity you have experienced and expressed.

WOW!
Maybe when I catch my breath, I can post to Shugah later.

ISG

TMD

Thumbs up.

Good work.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Mim,IS,Chris,Pep, thanks for stopping by on what has been a very emotional, backsliding kindof day. Teary at the drop of a hat kind of day, you know the type. I've been "learnin" here since Feb. and sometimes I feel as if I have really not learned a thing. I even called WH again today, not too bad a call, but I cried, knowing that Plan B is what is best for me and gives us the best chance. And of course nothing new, but I "hear" things. He started to say something like,"a lot of changes would have to occur if I were to come..." and then he stopped himself. So has he thought about it lately?
He asked about the kids first day of school,but didn't ask to speak to them. Asked if D is excited about tomorrow being her 1st day of preschool, but didn't ask to speak to her. He asked if he could buy her a bunny, something she has wanted for a long time. I said, no, I'd really like to, but NO, I have too many things to take care of already, please, no more. Of course he just says, "well think about it", he's not the one overwhelmed. He does acknowledge that any communication with him is hard on me, he can tell, it's obvious, and he tried to shorten the call with, "you are just going to be upset"

TMD!!!!
Thankyou so much for reaching out to me, to WH. I spend so much time wondering if WH knows the pain he is causing, truly knows. Thank you for giving me a glimpse into the world of WH. If what you say is true for him as well, then maybe there is hope. It is when I begin to believe that he really, really doesn't care, that I lose hope, in him, in me, in love... I don't know that he'll ever get to read it, and if he'd hear your message, but I so wish he would "before it's too late". Don't be so quick to write off your soul. I only hope that some WS somewhere hears your message, recognizes themselves in your pain and makes that first step back home.
Thank you so much. I will read this again and again, and try to believe that my WH is feeling even a little of what you did....and maybe?
Tonight I will sleep, I need it, and tomorrow will be a better day.

Our youngest son who is 11 says he wants to kill himself from time to time too. WS is living with his gf I hate to hear him say that and my h could care less.

I was not saying that you should simply drop everything and move.

Just that you need to consider everything before making a firm decision.

You don't think that a 16 yr. old wouldn't be resentful that he has to give up his world
A 16 year old is going to be resentful of ANYTHING you do, good or bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

But have you heard the anti-drug commercials? One of them goes;
Flash between a bunch of older teens. They say something like, "Mom, Dad, I really hated you for always wanting to know where I was, having to call in all the time, wnating to know who I wa with."
"Thanks."

As a parent, you aren't there to make it easy for them or to shield them from all the little hurts of the world.

You are there to show them how to deal with all the crap that gets dished up on their plates. And to celebate when they got good stuff dished up.

Ok, so if you were trying to play devil's advocate to make me realize the error of my 24 hr. decision, you've succeeded.
I didn't say it was an error, just something you need to consider & look at in a different light.

If you weren't, then I'd have to say, you don't actually understand the pain that these kids and myself are going through.
Been there, done that, got the book, (and got it autographed) the t-shirt, DVD-special edition, etc... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

None of this is easy and sometimes tough decision need to be made of which none of the choices is "good".

Yesterday, the proverbial **** hit the fan. It was not nice, or pleasant and it was in front of youngest D & S. WH came up for his previously agreed upon visit. As usual, he got here around 1pm, so much for missing your kids after 2 weeks that you can't get up early am to come up.
Anyways, he gets here, spent a few minutes sitting on the step with D, she was holding a giant frog.
He then started to go into the house. He knows I don't want him in here anymore and he has abided by my wishes up till today. But he was angry over something I did( I will get to that) and he would not leave the house. The kids were outside, he sat in the recliner and turned on the TV and said he was going to watch the ball game with S. He said he pays the mortgage so this is his home and he's not leaving. So I went over to unplug the TV and he jumped out of the chair and kicked me hard in the behind. (I have a sore back right now, kind of a whiplash effect).
I called the police, and WH went outside, so I told the police that if he left with the kids as planned and nothing else occurred I would not need them to come. WH came back in the house, was screaming in my face, he spits when he is that angry and I said stop spitting in my face and then he purposely SPIT in my face!!! I then had enough and called the cops.
Three cruisers came, local police, sheriff and state police. They took our statements and decided they didn't have enough to press charges (which was ok this time) so they gave a trespassing type order that would make him leave for today at least. At first they were going to let him still take D & S for his outing visit, and I was ok with that, they were expecting him(now traumatized), but WH became so mouthy threatening to take them back to his city and meet girlfriend and kids, asking D, "Do you want to come to Daddy's and see OW and the girls?" The state trooper especially was outraged, told WH he was being disprespectful to me & the kids by rubbing my face in it, not to mention the spitting which really pissed this guy off, and that he wasn't thinking of his kids. WH was bragging to the cops, how he pays all the bills and I won't even let him in his own home!! They got the straight story from me, including the fact that we collect food stamps and that all the bills are NOT payed, & bankruptcy. THey had his number all right.
I was pretty calm considering, I stayed away from him, and let them talk to him. I tried to explain to the kids what was happening and why.
The cops decided that WH was too wound up & needed to leave and skip the visit today. S then said to me, that's fine by me, because I didn't want to go with him now(but he would have). The state trooper, talked for a very long time to S and seemed genuinely concerned about him. They advised me to get a protection order on tuesday.
Not sure how I will proceed, but will definately file for Divorce, as I need to get some things in place. WH had called me friday, said the bank wouldn't take his debit card to pay the mortgage, and if it didn't get paid that day it would be more than 2 mos. late and they would send out a demand letter. So could I come up with $650 to go pay it after work? I told him, I didn't know, but I would try, and that it would be hectic as I also had a Dr.'s apppt. for D. I was able to use my paycheck, and borrowed some to pay it, WH said he would bring up the $$ when he came Sun. Later, after I had paid, he called and said the bank called him back, it was a mistake, that they could take his debit card. I commented how I almost missed D's Dr. visit. Not once, in those two conversations did he ask why she was going to the Doctor!! (She got three shots and cried all the way home.)
So WH, would not leave the money for me when he left. So basically I am screwed, I don't get paid for 2 more weeks, that was everything I had, I hadn't paid daycare yet or anything, and I owe the money I borrowed.
WH said to D when he was leaving, I"'m leaving and I'm never coming back, mommy doesn't want me here anymore!!!!!", I said WH dont' say that like that to her, she'll think she is never going to see you again.
So now to the part that pissed him off to begin with. As you know, I have been very frustrated with all I have to do, never getting a break, etc. Sat. night, I decide I needed to get out, and that damit,I was going to drive down to his city for a good time in his hangout(dive) and see what all the excitement was about.
I know, get out the 2x4's big time! All the while I was driving down, I was thinking, I shouldn't be doing this, but I couldn't stop myself. (Sort of like the start of an A?, choices).
I've actually been thinking about it for awhile, not caring whether he was there or not, just wanting to rub elbows with the people he knows, look good and smile and have fun, and have them put a face to my name, the "wife" that has no identity to them. They only know Bill and OW. I was feeling very confident about how I was looking, felt good when I walked in the bar(though my heart was pounding and I had all I could do to appear confident), but I did it, and she was the first one I saw when I walked in. She looked like a deer caught in the headlights. So I said, hi, WH must be here?, and I looked around to the pool table, and another deer caught in the headlights from him. I said Hi, big smile, and sat down at the bar and orderd a beer. He came over, what are you doing here? and I said, I need to get out once in a while too and I though I'd check out the neighborhood in case I decided to move here. Apparantly I had sat down next to OW's sister, because WH said this is OW's sister. I said hi, I'm Shugah, WH's WIFE.
I also wanted to get a good look at OW, and I am so glad that I did, she is so Skankie! Beyond description. WH came over twice and said well, we're leaving, like he was looking for my permission, I said, go, I didn't come here to see you anyways. They left, later I found out that they had just got there when I arrived. I ended up having a GREAT time, stayed till 12:30 and drove home. I played pool, teamed with a couple of different guys who were teaching me the game, one was an old guy that WH plays on a team with in a league on wed. nights ( so how many nights a week are you hangin out in bars, WH?), he was very nice to me, told me his whole life story and how his 2 wives walked out him, so he was very sympathetic. Also, with the cutest young Irish Kid, whose brogue was so thick I could hardly understand him half the time, oh if only I was 20 yrs. younger! And then a girl who works there who couldn' t wait to tell me where else I could find WH hanging out, I think she thought I was going to follow them or something. She said she thinks it's awful what WH did to me.(I had met her before).
I felt good, I smiled the whole ride home, because something had finally clicked for me! He was giving everything up for a skank girl, skank bars, skank city(really!), and even though I 've been hearing the words for months now, it FINALLY clicked! It is NOT about me or even about her, it's about WH and how he feels about himself!! I can see that now, all of this is so not him, but he feels so badly about himself and his life that he is settling for it, because he doesn't know how to fix it. And now he is pissed because I walked in on his secret world and saw him in all his glory (he definately looked stoned), he couldn't have skulked out of there any faster. And I think he expected I would leave after they did, but that wasn't even why I was there. His world now knows me as a person now, saw me have a good time, they talked to me, liked me and for some strange reason, it was all I needed to turn a big corner. I drove home that night and got in at 3a.m.
All morning I was feeling sooo good, until he showed up and was obviously angry about my road trip. I'm not sure what will happen after this. But WH is definately settling for crap, he has absolutely no clue what his children want or need, or who they are. He can get pissed at me all he wants, but anything I have done, and yes, I know what my part in this is, has been done away from my kids. And now he will withold the $$, which will only punish the kids.
Plan B is a good thing, unfortunately I am not a good player. My marriage is over, I know it, and now I will accept it. Maybe had I counseled with S.H., it would have helped, I don't know..
I can't help but think, my god, how did it all get to this point? It's like a bad dream, interactive of course.
Anyways, I'm ok this morning, the financial piece is beginning to get to me, for a long time, I've put that part out of my head for the most part, realizing as long as I didn't piss WH off, he would do the right thing, but now I need to take the next step.