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#1088707 08/28/03 01:43 AM
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I have just been unfaithful to my wife for the second time with the same woman. I know that I am still in love with my wife and want to know the true reasons why someone in love with there wife could do such a hurtful thing over.
Just to let you know about the other woman. she is a coworker of mine. we started out talking to each other about personal things and it went crazy from there. the second time it was a little bit different. She lost a family member and I was a friend of the spouse I felt sorry about the loss and asked to tell the uncle that if he needs any help to let me know.

With that the phone calls started again and the feelings again. I knew what was going on but could not stop and turn the other way.

#1088708 08/28/03 01:52 AM
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localboy...

No sense telling you that you goofed, you know that much.

Does your wife know?

First thing first - break it off with the OW RIGHT NOW. No contact of any kind. How is your wife doing? She just had a much worse loss than the girlfriend and needs you a lot more.

Also, you said more about the girlfriend than the wife in your post... mull that one over a little. Not being nasty, would love to help - i have been there and done that and thank God the wife kept me

#1088709 08/28/03 02:04 AM
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Local boy,

Welcome to MB. You have walked the borders of a dangerous precipice and still lived. For that you s/b grateful.

The OW is just that, an OW. Cunning, deceitful and quite devious.

While I personally don't know your OW, let me share with you an OW that I am acquainted with.

Let's call her..... PBR.

PBR advertised herself on the internet. So did the WS. Both were looking for excitment. They found each other. The relationship was on/off. OW tried to convince the WS she was better than his family. OW even claimed being 'hapai' 3 times.

OW threatened suicide, threatened to get the BS fired, threatened to make trouble for the BS and family, etc.

OW claimed to be able to walk into the BS family's life and make trouble whenever she felt like it.

WS' character changed during the A. He was mean and angry to everyone, especially his family. His W suffered and so did his child. All knew the WS was going from bad to worse.

Yet the WS was addicted to the OW for close to 3 years. Yes, he tried recovery several times. Each time the OW would pull him back. He was a weak man.

The BS was growing weary. Not getting any younger, the BS decided to move forward with her life and removed herself from the triangle. The OW did not like losing control over......over the wife (BS). Imagine that. See the extent some OWs go through? You think the A is only about the WS and OP? Nope, it is more. It is a selfish act that addicts the WS and OP. They feel they own the world. The OW even left a message saying the WS committed 'emotional adultery' when he tried recovery and went back to his family.

The A left the WS (H), homeless, sick and very poor. Yet the OW claimed to make him rich, healthy and happy beyond his wildest dreams. That's it, it was just a 'dream'.....but for the BS and family.....it was a nightmare.

It was a nightmare of the WS also but he had more control over it than the BS and family did. The BS, family and frieds, for a while had to watch while this WS dug a hole in his life and sunk below sea level. He almost drowned.

Latest antic? OW tried to serve the WS with some sort of Restraining order paperwork.

Think this is an unusual case? Nope, just one of the many stories here.

See any of your OW in the above example?

Keep reading. Recovery takes time to root firmly. You now have to earn your way back to your W. This is not impossible but it is not easy. How determined are you to recover?

L.

#1088710 08/28/03 02:05 AM
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Because sometimes "being in love" with someone is not enough to avoid hurting them. We hurt people we love all the time..and then usually turn around and look for something..anything to justify it or blame it on.

Not many have the courage to look right at themselves in the mirror and say.."gee, do you think something might be wrong with ME?"

Going out on a limb, I would guess that loving your wife, and also seeking affection/sex/ whatever from someone else has less to do with either the women involved and much more to do with youself.

Well, that's where you start..with yourself....may take some therapy, some reading, some soul searching. Until you get in touch with who you are, you'll never really understand why you do what you do.

Whenever my kids go out, their final words of warning from their Mom..."remember who you are". My son told me he never knew who he was till he completed rehab and therapy. And then realized he could become the person he wanted to be. And then, finally understood what I was saying.

Local Boy, again..this has nothing to do with the women involved..it has to do with the man. You need to learn about him, learn to love him..and find reasons to be proud of him.
Hang in there,
T

#1088711 08/28/03 02:12 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2ofaKind:
<strong>localboy...

No sense telling you that you goofed, you know that much.

Does your wife know?

First thing first - break it off with the OW RIGHT NOW. No contact of any kind. How is your wife doing? She just had a much worse loss than the girlfriend and needs you a lot more.

Also, you said more about the girlfriend than the wife in your post... mull that one over a little. Not being nasty, would love to help - i have been there and done that and thank God the wife kept me</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes she does thats why I'm not at home.
She is not taking it to well.
You mean you just told your self that its going to stop and you did?
It must mean that you did not have any feelings for the other person.
I have a very beautiful wife she has a very warm heart and loves to help people. My wife does not have any fault for the things I have done.

#1088712 08/28/03 02:23 AM
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Thank you for your response but I have to go now talk to you all later tomarrow.

#1088713 08/28/03 03:54 AM
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Hello Local Boy,

First you should find a new job. You should have zero contact with the OW. If you are serious about working things out with your wife than I suggest you figure out why you had the affair and allowed it to resume again. Not once did you ever do anything needed to protect your wife. You should come up with the plan on how to heal the marriage. It is time you do all the work to repair the damage. Not as your wife for information that she probably shared the first time. You should make the appointments for IC and MC. Why not try and formulate some recovery plans yourself without someone telling you what to do.

Not to sound harsh but it is time to step up to the plate and do the really hard work and examine yourself and find out why you allowed this to happen again and why you neglected your wife so much. You can do this you are a bright person it just comes down to do you want to do the hard work?

#1088714 08/28/03 06:25 AM
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local boy,

Man, do you sound like my husband. I agree with Twyla, this is about you. It has very little to do with OW or even your dear wife. IF you love your wife. Really love her; then work on yourself, so that she can have a man that she deserves. Be that man.
2oaks suggestion about ending all contact, is the "mB way". It is what is best if you want your marraige. But then, ending your affair the first time would have been best; or how about never having it in the first place. But since you can not go back in time, you need to do some serious soul-searching. You said you are out of the house. Where are you? Do you like being without her? She may not ever forgive you this time. She may not "get over" (we HATE that word around here, BTW) your latest betrayel. You came to marraige builders. That tells me that you must think you would like to "build" your marraige. But you must take a hard, deep look at yourself. You must stop making excuses about why you had an affair. The OW was never your responsibility. NEVER. So someone died. What concern was that of yours?? You should have been more concerned about your dear wife.
I am not beating up on you. I understand all to well. As I said, you sound a lot like my husband. He loved his OW. His affair was a year 1/2 --constant. He got caught 6 times by me and the OW's husband. He was hooked.
Fog. Fog. Fog. He was unable to make sound desitions because he had got caught up in all the lies he had been telling. It almost killed us. I had called a lawyer. Almost all my love for him died. I still do not trust him yet, but we are working on it. Please have a read at my husbands first post here. Read my story on my sig. line. You are not the first man to be here. You won't be the last.
Get in there and dig deep. What kind of man do you want to be?
best of luck to you. Coming here and admiting what you've done, and trying to seek help is a great start.
God Bless.
tsc

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=008969#000000

<small>[ August 28, 2003, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: tsc ]</small>

#1088715 08/28/03 07:40 AM
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dear local boy---welcome to marriage builders!

i agree with twyla, and tsc. you really need to dig inside you to figure this all out. i am 2 yrs into this and my husband is finally starting to do this. fixing you is the key. you need to figure out why you've made the choices you have.

since you are not at home right now---i think you should take this time ALONE (no ow either) to work on you. get yourself away from the ow and figure out what you need to be healed. yes you do need to heal also. only then, after you heal yourself and deal with your own issues that led you to where you are right now, can you possibly present yourself to your wife and pray she still wants to recover with you.

if you dont heal whats in you first, you are too dangerous to your wife. good luck and keep posting. we will do all we can to guide you.

#1088716 08/28/03 07:55 AM
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How about alittle more background LocalBoy,,,

How long have you been married? Your ages? Kids?

How long were you involved in the affair the first time? Was the affair discovered or did you confess? And the second time?

How did you and your W deal with the discovery of the affair the first time? Did you see a counselor, either together or individually? What changes took place to insure this would not happen again?

And, finally what are your feelings about your W? The OW? Yourself? Be honest,,,,

and Welcome,,,,,,we do care,,,, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#1088717 08/28/03 08:27 AM
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FYI local boy is ********** WH.

<small>[ August 29, 2003, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: MBMagnolia ]</small>

#1088718 08/28/03 09:10 AM
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local boy -

Your wife sounds amazing - any man's dream. And she forgave you and believed in you and tried to work this out once.

What can you offer her now?

I agree with all of the others. If your wife is truly all she says she is to you why did you risk her love, your marriage and all that goes with it?

Sometimes we do things that destroy our lives. This is what you have done. Any one of us can find someone who is a little needy, a little pretty and a little willing. You and the OW are not unique - you are a sad cliche. I'm sorry if that upsets you but it is true.

You need to get into counseling and READ, READ, READ anything that you can get your hands on to figure out why you destroy your life in this way. Why you hurt the one you love the most so deeply and so much.

These answers are inside yourself and can be brought out by looking inward and obtaining the guidance of others.

You need to figure out why so little will turn your head and heart from so much.

You sound like my H. Wanting to blame his actions on OW or this "innocent" inquiry on her family situation. If you wanted to talk to the spouse you could have spoken with the spouse of the deceased directly. Do not make excuses for yourself anymore - you only hurt yourself and insult your wife. You knew EXACTLY what you were doing. Did you tell your wife of continued contact? Did you tell her that you wanted to reach out to a family member of the OW? Did you lean on the one who you could trust to guide you through it? No, you knew what you were doing.

Figure out why you do the things you do and figure out how to get your life back. And get another job immediately - the OW is toxic to your life - she helped you destroy it!

Addicted to Unhappiness by William and Martha Pieper is a great book to try to figure out why we mess up our lives seemingly on purpose. Why we lack control and how to get it back into our lives. It involves awareness.

I believe you can do this. But you need to be willing to put in the time and effort and face the dark places in yourself, accept them and love yourself despite of them - conquer those dark places . My H did it and the day he got too scared and backed away is the day our marriage started falling apart again.

Report back to everyone on this forum on your progress and your insights. You will find friends, cyberhugs and some tough love but you will be a better man for it.

#1088719 08/28/03 09:19 AM
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local boy -

Your wife sounds amazing - any man's dream. And she forgave you and believed in you and tried to work this out once.

What can you offer her now?

I agree with all of the others. If your wife is truly all she says she is to you why did you risk her love, your marriage and all that goes with it?

Sometimes we do things that destroy our lives. This is what you have done. Any one of us can find someone who is a little needy, a little pretty and a little willing. You and the OW are not unique - you are a sad cliche. I'm sorry if that upsets you but it is true.

You need to get into counseling and READ, READ, READ anything that you can get your hands on to figure out why you destroy your life in this way. Why you hurt the one you love the most so deeply and so much.

These answers are inside yourself and can be brought out by looking inward and obtaining the guidance of others.

You need to figure out why so little will turn your head and heart from so much.

You sound like my H. Wanting to blame his actions on OW or this "innocent" inquiry on her family situation. If you wanted to talk to the spouse you could have spoken with the spouse of the deceased directly. Do not make excuses for yourself anymore - you only hurt yourself and insult your wife. You knew EXACTLY what you were doing. Did you tell your wife of continued contact? Did you tell her that you wanted to reach out to a family member of the OW? Did you lean on the one who you could trust to guide you through it? No, you knew what you were doing.

Figure out why you do the things you do and figure out how to get your life back. And get another job immediately - the OW is toxic to your life - she helped you destroy it!

Addicted to Unhappiness by William and Martha Pieper is a great book to try to figure out why we mess up our lives seemingly on purpose. Why we lack control and how to get it back into our lives. It involves awareness.

I believe you can do this. But you need to be willing to put in the time and effort and face the dark places in yourself, accept them and love yourself despite of them - conquer those dark places . My H did it and the day he got too scared and backed away is the day our marriage started falling apart again.

Report back to everyone on this forum on your progress and your insights. You will find friends, cyberhugs and some tough love but you will be a better man for it.

#1088720 08/28/03 09:36 AM
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local boy:

I don't know enough from the few lines you've written to tell you about your situation. But if you read much here, you'll probably find that it is very, very similar to that of many, many others. I can only speak from my experience.

My H also had an A with a co-worker. I had met her before it became an A, and my first impression of her was that she was very needy. She constantly seemed to have some sort of "emergency" that she needed H to come "rescue" her from. Later on, H admitted that he liked the feeling of being someone's "knight in shining armor" much more than he like anything about the OW herself. When he took a good, realistic look at her, there wasn't much there to be attracted to. But he liked feeling important and admired.

My H is a very sweet, kind, easygoing guy. Almost everyone likes him as soon as they meet him. However, he had a really hard time growing up and a very rough relationship with his father. Somehow, over 4 years dating as High School sweethearts and 10 years of marriage, I could never seem to get him to see him as I saw him--a smart, capable, worthwhile guy. He could only focus on his own faults and shortcomings. It didn't matter that he was smart and got good grades in school--he didn't make as much money as me, so that meant he was a loser. It didn't matter that I found him extremely attractive--he was a bit overweight, so that made him a loser.

I knew all along that he didn't have good self-esteem, and always seemed to need lots of people to tell him how great he was--friends, coworkers, etc. And since he was "secure" that he didn't have to do too much to keep me around singing his praises, I was usually last on his list of priorities--so he could focus his energy on keeping all the other "friends" around feeding his self-esteem.

The point is, she always needed someone else to "make" her feel good about herself. He always needed someone else to "make" him feel good about himself. Neither of them realized that self-worth has to come from a place inside yourself. They tried to get their spouses to fill it, but the emptiness was too big for any one person to fill. It was too big for 10 people to fill. No matter what I did, I couldn't make my H really like himself and really believe he was a good enough person.

Long story short, the OW asked him to take her somewhere after work to "talk about her problems" and as soon as they got there, all she wanted to talk about was giving him a BJ. It took me about two months to finally get to the truth. While I was trying to figure it all out, I found MB. I started trying to meet his needs. But he was already addicted. It took telling him straight out that I was going to divorce him, and a trip to the atty's office, to get him to wake up and realize what he was risking, and for what.

I made a lot of conditions for us to get back together. First was that he had to have NC with the OW and start making an effort to find another job. When OW wouldn't respect his request for NC, he took it a step further, and gave his 2 weeks notice (he found a job after 1 day out of work--God answers prayers.) Second, he had to commit to counseling. He took that a step further, found a really highly recommended Christian counselor, and scheduled weekly, instead of monthly, appointments.

Everything I asked of him, he did that and a bit extra. Because he realized, whether I stayed or left, he still had to live with himself and the man he'd become, and he wanted to know for himself WHY.

The end result? We are now healing very well. H has a renewed, stronger relationship with God. He had to ditch some friends that were not healthy, but he made even more who were healthy, good influences. He healed a lot of those old childhood wounds in counseling, and found some direction in life he'd always been lacking. We're expecting a new baby in February.

We just heard recently that the OW, who never got counseling, has started ANOTHER A with yet another coworker. Her H is at his wits end.

I can't tell you why you made the choices you made, local boy. Those answers are inside you, inside your heart, head, and memories. All I can suggest is that you probably will not find peace, either with your wife, with OW, or with yourself, till you find them. Find a good, competent counselor (Christian, if you are one). And listen to the people here--they have a lot of hard-won experience and wisdom.

Good luck and God bless.

P.S. - I noticed you made a comment to another WS that if they were able to totally break contact with the OP "cold turkey," that must mean they had no feelings for them. I don't doubt that you have sincere caring feelings for the OW. My H did, too--he was and is a kind, caring person. But those feelings don't excuse anything, and they're not the reason you are where you are right now. Whether you believe it or not, you have the power to make the right choices, IN SPITE OF your feelings. Until you believe that, you will never be free.

<small>[ August 28, 2003, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Kat72 ]</small>

#1088721 08/28/03 10:03 AM
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<small>[ September 17, 2003, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: still forever hers ]</small>

#1088722 08/28/03 01:00 PM
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Local...
Yes, i broke contact cold turkey after discovery. OW tried to re-establish it and I flatly refused.

This might not be fun but try this...
When you think about OW and wish you could talk to her close your eyes and imagine the look on your wife's face when she found out, especially since this was the second time. Remember how badly hurt she was - is anything worth that???

Now try closing your eyes and imagining her blowing your best friend and enjoying it. Sorry to be graphic... when you get done throwing up read the rest, it is more gentle...

OK, there are some things to recognize right now.
First, recognize that cheating on your wife is wrong. Divorcing her to free yourself up to play the field is crummy, but honest. Cheating is just not justifiable. Remember - I did it too so I am not trying to suggest I am any better. I am betting you are not a chickensh!t coward, you just acted like one for a while - i did too before I pulled my head out of my rear... by shades, the light gets pretty bright.

I broke it off with OW 5 times before discovery, the pain I had caused hit my like a truck. Feelings toward the OW were insignificant next to the pain I had caused. After discovery it was OVER, if OW died 6 months ago i have no idea because I dropped mutual friends and places that she might be.

Let me very up front with you - you are very lucky you got a second chance. You will be incredibly lucky to get a third and if you blow it I am willing to bet there will not be a fourth. Decision time big guy.
IF you really love your wife then this is your one chance to fix things. Whatever happened between the first time you got busted and this time is not going to work again. She does not trust you and you have not earned it. Hopefully you are in a panic and willing to do anything to fix it... here is an initial list of suggestions:

1. NO FRIGGING CONTACT OF ANY KIND
2. NO FRIGGING CONTACT OF ANY KIND
3. The first step is to put your wife first in every decision. You got to do what you wanted at her expense - you owe her.
4. If your wife wants a no-contact letter do it, if not, see 1 & @.
5. You can't apologize right now. You lied again and your words are meaningless so try actions.
- Cell records now belong to her
- You are not allowed to spend a penny that you can't account for
- Give up any/all account passwords to online stuff.
- ask her what else as a first step.
- be reachable 24/7 by cell when you are not together.
- IF she will let you, get back home and spend as much time by her side as you can. Dote on her. When she screams and cries, try to hold her. If she won't allow it then try to do whatever you can. She'll say some horrible things (if you are lucky - if she ignores you then be very worried, hate and love are pretty close, if you are to ambivalence you are in trouble)
When I was in your shoes I begged, pleaded and begged more - not for forgivness but for a chance to EARN the right to even ask. She made it rough and I took it... that is a beginning.

Here is probably the toughest part. She is going to look back at every day from the last d-day til this one and ask questions - lots and uncomfortable ones. I KNOW that you will want to soften the answers and spin it to make yourself seem as innocent as possible. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Start by telling her everything and deny nothing unless it is not true. If you are honest about the worst of it, it is easier to believe when you deny something and are telling the truth.

If you do that and she agrees to discuss forgiving you your life will get a lot better very quickly - at least the fear of discovery is gone and you don't have to remember your story once the truth is out.

Find a marriage counselor - interview 5 and ask how they can hellp you in this situation, tell her what all five said and ask HER which one she wants, then book it and GO. The more blame you take, the more responsibility you accept and the more you do to show you want to make things right the better off you are. ONE lie right now hangs you and sets you back to the bottom of the hole (which will now be deeper with water falling in faster).

Your call. Lose your wife or lose your lies right now but don't think about this long. The more time that passes without you going to your wife, falling on your knees, confessing everything and begging for one chance to fix this the worse your chances are.

The good news is that if you throw your entire effort into this HONESTLY - for her, not you, things can be better than they were before the first affair. You are going to have to find out what made you open to an affair and work with her on changing it.

Simple question - do you want to look in the mirror and know you are honest again or see a liar and cheater looking back?

8 months later we are doing really well... the other day she told me that the one thing that saved my sorry tail was not defending it, not justifying and not dodging it. If she is going to trust you she has to first respect you. Earn her respect back by being man enough to take responsibility and be honest - the trust will take a LOOONG time but hope/respect can be rebuilt quickly if you are sincere about doing the right things.

Now close your eyes and see that wife of yours in absolute agony and pain again.
One other motivation - do you have kids? Imagine getting to see them every other weekend while another man raises them and makes love to your wife every night, keep that picture in your head if you get tempted.

Your move buddy. We'll be here, we want to help and can give suggestions that work but they may not be fun and they may hurt.

Praying for you.

2.

#1088723 08/28/03 01:28 PM
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IF...you follow 2's advice...you might luck out and be able to save your life (more or less) as you have known it.

If you don't...you might re-create something similar...but the results will be less then satisfactory for either you or your W...and in all likelyhood you'll find yourself all alone with no W, no marriage...and wondering how you did this to yourself and those who you love and who love you!

How did I lose it all????? The cry of many a WS when looking at an apartment with only four walls and no love.

Being betrayed once is harmful enough, being betrayed a second time is usually just too much for the BS to overcome. Nothing is going to be easy...it's all hard. No matter what your decision is to be...things will change. It's up to you as to what changes you are willing to make to prove "I love my wife".

And...IF....you want your marriage...begin looking for a new job TODAY!!!!!

You've already proven in no uncertain terms that you are not trustworthy to be around this woman. You have yet to prove that you are trustworthy at all...but changing jobs would be one of the easiest steps to take to maybe have your W agree to talk to you about the possibility of maybe at some time in the future...reclaim the trust you threw in the garbage and just on the outside hope of maybe getting a third chance at saving your marriage and your family and your life!!!!

#1088724 08/28/03 01:51 PM
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localboy,
If you have any interest in saving your M at all, you have to stick to NC (no contact). GET ANOTHER JOB!!! It's amazing what you can create when you really put your heart and mind to it.

It's not that the feelings just "stop", but you have to do the action steps to keep yourself on the right path and moving forward. You are in what we call the FOG and you will eventually be in withdrawal. It's no different than and alcoholic or drug addict.

You will eventually be able to look back on this and not have what you think are "feelings" for the OW. Unfortunately, you will probably have the most shame and guilt you could ever suffer in a lifetime. Especially since you did this twice with the same woman. I would encourage you to work through the self-loathing part as well.

If you love your W and even if you don't think there is a chance to save your M, you deserve to break this cycle and get in touch with what's really going on in your life.

Infidelity is a very sad situation....very very sad. Hurts people as much as death.

I wish you luck in finding your answers.

#1088725 08/28/03 01:53 PM
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It's all really so very, very simple:

Decide what you want and then DO THE RIGHT THING.

~Marie

#1088726 08/28/03 02:05 PM
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local boy,

You have to grow up.

Decide for yourself what love is and then act on it. It is so on the fence to say you are "in love with" your wife and then you cheat on her.

I once asked this of X-MM: "Just exactly who is it that you can love? You can't love me enough to help (or not hinder) my getting out of this degrading ****ing relationship, and you can't love her enough to be faithful to her."

I asked that of him and got no answer, of course.

But now ask this of yourself. And arrive at an answer. For all of your sakes. C'mon. You are acting to get your sexual needs met. Act to be a grownup and figure out how you can get those needs met in your marriage. It takes a mature adult to sustain a monogamous relationship and you are not an adult, yet.

You just have to choose.

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