It almost sounds like he wants a rise out of you...

But, WOW, I have never read the confusin expalined so clearly!! He is waffling back and forth between his morals, what he knows to be right, and his selfishness. I see moments where he peeks out of the fog, then dips back into it.
I LOVE the letter as an example of the conflict a S goes through in an A. Half is baloney (please, I'm in love with two extraordinary people?...whatever, I think he's in love with himself...and not sure that is worth it...)

He has shown that your Plan A really worked. It reminded him about your love. And that was the first time he felt love for you? Please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> These WSs sure do have short memories...

I think he's waffling, and is also fishing to see if you'd be OK with sharing. I origianlly thought no communication would be the road to take, but that might give him the impression you're OK with what he wrote. I would write a simple statement like "Please no more letters until you've decided to recommit to our R and are having NC with OW"

Queen!! This is such an excellent letter to receive! Now, throw it away! ALL it means is that he's thinking about you. That's all you need to know. The rest of it is his own struggle with the things that are going on in his world. IT'S NOT YOUR BUSINESS.

However you choose to reinforce Plan B, go for it. Remember, these are extraordinary precautions for YOUR benefit! (And that of your kids.) You CAN do Plan B when you have kids, and I agree that there ought to be a whole lot more suggestions and advice and support about that. Perhaps I'll start a thread about just that.

In any case, reinforce Plan B, get your lawyer involved if necessary, and then GO BACK TO FOCUSING ON YOU. Job search is excellent! Spending time with the kids is great! Getting in your car and screaming your head off is fine! But whatever you do, DO NOT ENGAGE YOUR WH!!

And (deep breath) expect his contacts to become more angry and more desperate as he tries to force you to react. Stay strong, stay dark. You -can- do this.

Oh, and by the way, why are you reading letters from your WH, anyway? Think of these communications as Trojan Horses that come in through a gate that -you- opened. Don't do that. Redouble your defenses. If you get a letter, have someone else read it and ask you any PERTINENT questions that may need answers. (Like, do you mind if I take the kids away for the weekend in two weeks?) Have them edit out ALL the relationship stuff. The only thing you need to know about your relationship is when the relationship with OW ends. The rest of it is theory and your H's internal processes. Interesting to a casual observer, devastating for you. Stay out of 'em.

Queen,

Sorry I havent been around this week...a lot going on here. And I will respond more adequately probably Monday. But two things I read from your last few posts:

1. Kids and Plan B...go to my threads, expecially this past December/January. Watch how I handled that. Is it rough on the kids? Sure. But it will be rougher if things dont get repaired and their family on track again. Plan B actually makes things a little easier, because Mom isnt on the rollercoaster anymore and can be semi-normal most of the time. Your WH is messing you, and those kids. You protect them. He wants to live this way...then he can do so alone...do not let your kids think that this is okay. I dont mean for you to undermine your WH with them. But I do mean that you are to protect them as best you can from that "alien" until your husband returns. In the end, he WILL thank you!

2. Plan B is working. But, unfortunately, you arent at the end yet...just the end of the beginning. Go read Mimi's thread. This will take awhile longer. But the light IS shining in...which is good because it means he is still capable of seeing the truth and feeling guilt. But unfortunately, it isnt enough pain yet for him to do anything about.

So, as was said before...ignore it...at best, just send back the Plan B letter...and continue on with your life. When he comes to his senses, he will catch up to you. For now...back to the darkness...ignore his emails, use third persons for kid stuff (exchanes and exchange of info). Work on yourself. The rest will fall into place.

In His arms.

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

WILL SOMEBODY GET A BASEBALL BAT AND BANG ME ON THE HEAD WITH IT BECAUSE I AM STUPID,STUPID, STUPID?

He came back from football with kids and wanted to finish game off with son. I asked how long that would take, and he said not very long since he was not welcome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Said, thats ok, because I will go with the dog for a walk and shop for food. The 5 yr old then says, mummy aren´t we going to shop new clothes for us today, andI say well you have to ask daddy about that. He then looks at me and said, I haven´t touched your salary this month, can´t you buy what they need with that?

For info I work part time (20hrs per wk) and my salary can just about pay for other costs of living than rent. I just looked at him and said, I don´t know how he thinks I should do that.

I left, came back again, and had been crying in the car because it was hurting to see him again. I come in and he says, whats wrong, did you hurt yourself. A short no. I´m dead irritated about him thinking I could afford new stuff for kids so go upstairs and print out the excel sheet I started this month on income and expenses. I gave it to him and walked away. When I come back again he hugs me, and I say I think you had better leave now, because this is simply too painful.

He looks at me and says, aargh stop acting like a victim and I´ve had enough of you today. My reaction, this is where I should have STOPPED but didn´t. I said I´m not acting like a bloody victim, I wont be in a relationship with you as long as you are having an affair with someone else. He walked off and said see you Monday. I ask what about Monday, when do you want to see the kids on Monday. He would message me. So he walks off in total control and has manipulated the situation to his whim.

I need REALLY concrete advice here. This is how the next week looks;

Facts. I am living in the house, he is living I don´t know where. When he wants to see the kids all communication has to go directly from him to me. We do not have ANYONE to act as a intermediary. They are 3 kids, ten, five and two and handle it best when they are at home in a safe environment,they are quite a bundle to handle if you take them out anywhere, there needs to be two grown ups to take them out, because all of their needs are so different.

Monday - He wants to see kids. Where?
Tuesday - We are supposed to shop this new stuff for kids, he has not got a clue what they need and he will just buy what they point at. He can´t just give me the money, cause I know he is out of cash and will use his credit card.
How do I handle this so I don´t have to see him and get into a situation like today. I have to go dark, dark, dark.

Sometimes it feels like it is me that has also been pulled into his fog.

-queen-

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

Let him take the kids out alone, he needs to see how tough it is to be a "single" parent! You do it all the time, right? Stop protecting him from his reality!
Give him a list of the clothes they need, go out before hand shopping if you have to and list specifically what they need and where you found it! But actually, that seems like too much work, just let him go with a list AND the kids!
Maybe next time, he'll make sure he has the cash to give you!!
I had to stop letting WH come into our home. It was too painful, I keep a nice comfortable home, he gets his home and family fix, and then leaves for another woman! NO MORE!
He needs to live with the reality of his choices!! Listen to MortarMan, you are fortunate to get advice from someone with such great insight! It may be tough on the kids for awhile, but it's going to be tough if Dad doesn't come back either! So let WH figure out how he's going to parent these kids on his own! You can't make it easy for him!
Let him get a blanket and the monopoly game and go play it in the park!
Don't let him make you feel guilty. My WH is now doing that too! "You want me to see the kids more, but you won't HELP me out" WHAT???? Who helps me everyday! NO ONE!
It's tough, I know, you don't want to see the kids suffer any more than they have to, but you need to set some BOUNDARIES! Draw your line in the sand!
YOu can do it!

Wish I had some better answers, just know I'm thinking about you.

There will be backslides...that's OK, next time you see you, a simple "I'm sorry for my behavior the last time, I'm having a hard time dealing with the demise of our marriage." Then go on to show him you can calmly talk about topic, clothes, visitation, etc... Start the conversation with a declaration of what the problem is, "The kids need new clothes, about $$$$ worth, what is your suggestion?" said as sweetly as you can. After his suggestion you can both come up with a solution. IF it EVER gets to the point where you don't think you can handle it, then say, "I can't talk about this anymore today, next time, it's time for you to go..." And walk away into the other room until he leaves.

May mean that some things will take what seems like FOREVER to get worked out, but it will show him he can't try to push your buttons, you won't play the game anymore. He'll have to cooperate more if he wants to keep talking with you, even if it's mundane.

And that talk about how you're the victim? Darn tootin', and he's mad because you're "making" him feel guilty. Foooooogggggg horn going off.

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

Queen,

I am in no way a PlanB veteran, yet I think that your PlanB is too lax. He is still a part of the "family" with his freedom to come and go as he pleases. I would no longer have the house available for his use. He needs to pick the children up and take them to wherever he is dwelling...to the park...to McDs...anywhere BUT the house. In regards to his tardiness picking up his son...You take your son...and blend in as any one of the other parents waiting for his tardy butt. If someone says something about why is he late...and look at you...let it slip that he has chosen to be with someone else and SHE must be keeping his from his responsibility to the team. That is just another way of exposing the affair. If some of the other parents say something to him..so be it.

No dinners at your home...no game playing at your home. Have the kids ready and waiting on the porch...tell him that you will meet him in the driveway..he is no longer to come inside the house. Hand over the kids...not one word from you unless it has something to do with the kids...or when to expect them back...or tell him what time YOU expect them back. Is there anyway to draw up a document outlining a parenting schedule for him? If there is, do that...and stick to it.

I do not think that it's a given that PlanB will last 2 years. It lasts as long as you decide. If, after 6 months you have had enough, then that's it. You do not have to endure 2 years of this hell on earth.

You really need to dig your heels in on this. When I read the letter that he sent you, I felt that he was thanking you for being ok with his pursuit of a relationship with this OW...that you will still keep your heart and your home open to him. I do not think that helps the situation. Cut him off....the children will survive if he goes dark for a while...it isn't up to you to make sure they stay connected to him. It is up to HIM...it is HIS responsibility to stay connected to them...it is not yours to make sure that it happens.

Again, I am not a oldtimer...nor a veteran of PlanB. I just thought I would send some suggestions your way.

Feel Free to Ignore any or all of them.

Committed

O.K its 8pm here in Denmark, and I´m off to try to have a nice time, have some laughs and relax. Gosh do I need it!!!! Picked out a sexy but classy black dress that my WH bought me in May for our anniversary and the shoes he bought with it.

So if I should meet them at least I will in his(and my)opinion look stunning. I know my friends are probably going to be dressed just a bit more fashionably relaxed, but I´m going out to get some positive attention for myself. Like the lóreal commercial says...because I´m worth it!

Wish me luck, I´ll be back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

HAVE FUN!!! Or hope you had fun!!!

And I hope you didn't run into them...

Can't wait to hear about the comments you received and the guys that hit on you. I'll bet you looked FANTASTIC!!!

O.K

Gut feeling was 100% right, what is it somebody up there is trying to show me?

The story of last night

B4 I start, I have to say that you are going to be dissappointed in me again. I did not handle it like I should have, though I had mentally been preparing myself to do what was suggested.

We went to this club and the 1st hour was a ball. I got lots of positive attention and was having a great time. I´m sitting talking to a group of guys out partying a birthday, and my girlfriend says, your WH is here. I ask alone? She says yes.(she thought he was).

I´m kind of happy that I´m "shining" and he´s alone so 15 minutes later I casually walk around the club smiling and shining with a friend to scan where he is. I then see him, sitting at the bar with this blonde woman in his arms, stroking her hair.

I´m paralyzed to the spot(I thought he was alone and mentally prepared for myself for just that). I stand there 3-5 minutes just looking at them and can see that he will never notice anyone around him as he is so consumed by her. This hurts terribly.

I go up to him and tap on his arm and say; "hi, I did not expect to see YOU here". He looks up -shocked. She looks up - shocked. Then he says all of a sudden, well, now that you are both here you might as well say hello to each other. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I look at him and say angrily, absolutely not. There is no way that I am going to say hello to your affair as if I accept it. Then I walk off with a strong attitude.

I´m proud of myself. Hurting but proud. Go back to guys and ask the most handsome of them to dance. We dance. Then WH comes up to me and pulls me off the dance floor and says - I am so sorry. I did not know you were out tonight, you did not tell me. I just said smthg like well I don´t tell you stuff and you don´t tell me stuff. He then goes on saying that he would never ever have come there if he knew I was there. I tell him to just get lost, I don´t want to talk to him as long as he is involved with her.He walks off.

He then goes back to her and starts the hugging and caressing again. This is where it goes wrong and now I know what they mean when people do things because something snaps.

It just said SNAP for me.

I charged over to where they were, looked my WH in the eyes and said " I suggest you leave this place right NOW". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> She says, we are leaving. I look at her and feel like " how dare she speak to me, when I am not addressing her". And I flip out. I get hold of her hair and pull her towards me and say I mean NOW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I´m holding a beer glass with water and I throw it in her face and say again, NOW!. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> My Wh tries to control me and holds me up against the bar whilst holding me. One of my friends gets inspired by my water thing and pours a glass of water down her back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She then runs to hide behind a wall, waiting for my WH to follow and he holds me close into his arms and says - I´m so sorry for this. I push him at arms length and say to him;
"You have a choice, I am your wife and I ask you to stay, I have born your children and I have not deserved treatment like this. You say you love me and respect me now, and this is what I get? What are you going to do? Stay here with your wife or leave with her?

(of course I know he is not going to stay, but since I had caused such drama, I felt I needed to all of a sudden pull some strength in me and get him to face REALITY - here are the 2 women, who does he want?)

He then babbles...well, since I brought her here I have to leave with her and anyway if I stay we will just fight.I then say. I promise to not fight with you. Stay with me your wife or go with her. He says I have to go with her but its not my choice.

I look at him and say. WH, just go, you have made your own choice.

Well the rest of the evening was a disaster,I sat and talked with my friends and then drove home. Didn´t touch a drop to drink, even my water was wasted on her!

I was drained of all energy and dissappointed with myself for not acting more cool. It snapped. I just couldn´t handle it.And I have to tell you all for the record, I virtually NEVER lose my temper. I´m the kind of person that has a line that can get stretched really far,because I am so bad at setting boundaries, so I do get walked over and then I just bottle up the fume inside of me.I think I have snapped like I did last night once before in the entire 8 yrs we have been together.

This morning one of my dearest friends called me to hear how I was and I just broke into a zillion pieces and could not stop crying. She came to pick me up, and her and her boyfriend made pancakes for me, she cut and coloured my hair (she´s a hairdresser)and they just took care of me. Feeling a bit better.

My Wh sent me 2 messages.

1. Sorry about the whole thing

2. Hope you did o.k - I know you wanted me to stay, but considering the mood we both were in and the fights that was about to happen, I think my choice was the best. And NO- it was not a choice from me - but I will call later...love WH

I have sent him a short message back.

Do not contact me anymore as long as you are seeing that woman.

Now to the plan B, though I am not sure I have got any love left, so this might even be Plan D, because yesterday pushed me so much over the edge,it feels like it was the last drop for me to act like I did. I actually am pretty sure it is Plan D. I don´t think I can love him anymore. I have lost all respect for him. AND he CHOSE her, so in my world it is OVER. I will however continue the plan B but with tougher walls as follows;

Committed;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> your PlanB is too lax. He is still a part of the "family" with his freedom to come and go as he pleases. I would no longer have the house available for his use. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He will no longer have this freedom. Period.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> . Is there anyway to draw up a document outlining a parenting schedule for him? If there is, do that...and stick to it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will try to work this one out and just hand it over to him. He can then cross out what he wants to change or add.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. Cut him off....the children will survive if he goes dark for a while...it isn't up to you to make sure they stay connected to him. It is up to HIM...it is HIS responsibility to stay connected to them...it is not yours to make sure that it happens. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I take these words to my heart as it is his responsibility not mine.

Shugah:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He needs to live with the reality of his choices!! Listen to MortarMan, you are fortunate to get advice from someone with such great insight! It may be tough on the kids for awhile, but it's going to be tough if Dad doesn't come back either! So let WH figure out how he's going to parent these kids on his own! You can't make it easy for him! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will not make it easy for him anymore. Absolutely not.

I am going dark now, and my Plan B/D says - NO MORE MANIPULATION, NO MORE HURT. ITS OVER.

-queen-

Whew! Wow! I know it was emotional for you, but girl I couldn't help but LOL while hearing about OW getting exactly what she deserved!! I wish I had done something like that, even if it was LB, everytime I relive my 2 meetings with OW, I wish I had cooly and calmly poured something over her head!
NOW, deep breaths, calm down and no rush to D, you are reeling with emotions right now! Let the dust settle, move into a strong Plan B and see what WH does with that.
His little tangle with REALITY may be just what he needed, there may also be trouble in Paradise over the "little" public scene!!
However, despite what he said about it "not being his choice" could just be bigtime FOG talk still.
Words are just words, let's see what his actions show now!
Meanwhile, you continue to work on getting stronger, letting your friends comfort you (pancakes sound good!)and taking care of the kids.
Patience is the name of the game here, and unfortunately, it's a tough one!! But I think you've shown WH what you're made of, and how can he not admire "SPUNK"! Although he may try to label it lunatic, as my WH did, but don't listen!!
Although not an MB principle, sometimes doing something like that gives you the satisfaction and push that you need that says "I WILL NOT BE DISRESPECTED! I WILL NOT TAKE THIS LYING DOWN"!!!
Now go DARK. Don't let him into your world until he has given up the A, agrees to No Contact and a plan for recovery!!
Now you READ, READ, READ! And be ready for whatever comes next!
I'm proud of you!

Hooboy. Queen, you deserve a million hugs and understanding. Looking at how strong you've been for all these months, I'm not at all surprised that you "snapped" as you put it. You're not invincible!!!

Having said that, DON'T let this happen again. It is extremely dangerous. YOUR emotions are extremely dangerous to you, to your H, and to his affair partner.

From outside your head, what you did could easily be interpreted as "this woman is completely nutty and dangerous."

And you know what? You -are-. You can't help it. So. For your own safety, for the safety of your H, and for the safety of his affair partner, GET OUT OF CONTACT.

You need breathing room, love. Lots of it. Probably he does, too. He apologized. Give him credit for that.

Give him credit for realizing that your emotions were way too raw for either of you to manage right then. He was right about that.

Now, what the heck are you going to do with all that anger? First of all, use it to build those walls of protection (for ALL THREE OF YOU!) high and strong and wide. Your anger will easily allow you to come up with ways to do it, and will easily fuel the energy you need to make it happen.

Give your list to someone who's lots calmer than you are, who can look at it and tell you which ones are truly to protect you and which ones are just to punish your husband and his affair partner. Talk it through with that person, and get them to help you -rationally- implement the ones that are clearly needed.

Remember, all this anger is neither good nor bad; it's in how you use the energy. Picking a fight in a bar? Not a good use of energy. Protecting yourself, your husband, his affair partner, and your kids? A very good use of energy.

When I plan B'd by H I did not yet know of affair. I just knew he was being hurtful to me on purpose and was not going to stand for it any more. Boy oh boy did the anger help me not want to contact him. My advice get angry!! Get so angry that you want to make yourself better for you (and the fun of spiting him) I made new friends and refound old ones, I found things to do (family helped with that very much) Cut and colored my hair, Found God, Never had a cleaner house, ect. After I plan b'd I found out about EA that turned out to be revealed as a PA. I did not call or speak to H at all. Of course he did not try to contact me but I told him not to till he could treat me like a human being and with respect. He did not contact me till after A was over and NC had already been established. It was not till this point I knew it was anything more than a friendship. ( I was blind to it all) My advice try to convince yourself it is over (if he decides to wake up and get his head surgically removed from his butt so be it) It is very hard not to hold that hope. But for me I had to go on with live as if he wanted a Divorce. I kept busy and kept being angry with him!

Now we are working on recovery slowly... and I am working on forgiving him. But at this point you are at protect yourself from being hurt any further. Just jump off the roller coaster! (I am sure you will find the eject button somewhere.)

Good Luck.

Tami

Queen, when he chose to leave with her he made his choice humiliating you in the process as far as I'm concerned. I've always wondered what my H would have done had I been able to walk up on them. He says he'd leave with me, but I don't believe it.
Gal, I would give years off my life to have had the opportunity you just had! It would have given me faster healing than anything else has.
Make certain you have absolutely NC now. Cut him off completely!
When he says he wants to talk, tell him you're not there to listen to his business talks, daily grind and so forth. That talking is only for one thing and that's to clear out the mud and state where he's going with the marriage from this day forward.
You have now seen how he can sleep in your bed and return to making over this OW right in your face. I can promise you he knew you were there.
Not one doubt in my mind.
As they all advise, plan B strictly, and don't allow this man to gain one inch of foothold with you unless and until he has gotten rid of OW and proved it by allowing you to hear him tell her or show you the letter and allow you to send it!
Sheesh. I give people here an A+ for strength in these plans. With a spouse like this who has multiple A's, I couldn't find one ounce of love to even consider allowing one back in my life.
I pray in your agreement in filing, you will get plenty of support and be able to live independently quite well.
You sound like you would have no problems rebuilding your life quite well and happily so even if you decide to go through with divorce.
Do what will make you happiest!
LouLou

Queen,

Wow, that OW better be glad she was able to leave with her life.

Under those circumstances and the fact that your H knew what he was doing, means that he should be carrying the blame for PROVOKING U.

Do I sanction pulling hair and dumping ice water down someone's back? Only if it is to calm down a b - - - h! OOoops, I meant to say, dog. Same thing.

That OW thought she had your # by acting coy. Instead she walkout like a drowned rat.

Now next time, you had better just walk away in an effort to not create a scene or disturb the peace. But all in all, I'd say you were ok considering the circumstances.

Sounds like you need to have a better night out. As for your H, he needs to realize the results of his actions. If the OW's hair is messy, she'd better go comb it herself.

JMHO, of course.
L.

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

Dear Queen,

I know its not kosher to say this, and I know you probably wish it hadn't happened - but...you made my day!

While I know you are not proud of yourself for losing control, I understand the need you felt to stand up for yourself.

I agree completely with the others - no contact with him AT ALL.

On D-day no. 2, even after e-mailing my H and asking him to give me space, and not approach me, I ended up in a row with him in our kitchen, where I snapped and punched him. It was before I found MB, and I knew nothing about plan A, plan B, or LB. This was not usual behaviour for me, but I felt seriously provoked (its a long story). Looking back, I feel one of the worst mistakes I made was to apologize on the night, and afterwards. I even apologized to the OW for invading their privacy (I had found their e-mails to each other), and told her my hitting him was not her fault either. (Jeez, did I really do that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ) Just shows you where I was at by then, and how much I had to grow. While I regretted deeply having hit him, and still regret it, it was a mistake to apologize for it before he had admitted to his wrongdoing, promised to end contact, and committed to rebuilding our marriage. Had I been a stronger person then, I wouldn't have felt guilty about withholding my apology.

While you may regret the violence, my advice is to not apologize for this, UNTIL and UNLESS you get what you want and need from him, if, that is, there is anything left he has that you want.

Otherwise, while in the fog, he will use your apology against you to justify his actions, just as he has admitted to doing already.

I am convinced that my apologetic attitude afterwards harmed and hindered our recovery, even to this day. My H was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG and knew it. By apologizing, I gave him a way out of taking responsibility for his own HUGE part in that row, and deflected the attention away from his behaviour and on to me. Don't let this happen to you. Don't give him any more weapons to use against you.

And...I would not delete that TXT - i would save it, as proof that he admitted (at least in part) his failing. If you are thinking of D, you will need this kind of admission of guilt from him.

Just sit tight for now. You have some wonderful support here.

God bless.
LIR

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>