Sooo, going out this weekend? Group of friends going to support you on another adventure on the town (this time without the drama)?

Don´t think so...
Still licking my wounds...
besides can´t leave kids alone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Whey, I got to rent the house from the family living in Singapore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The house is huge and they wanted double the rent, but I wrote a long letter to them explaining my situation and after meeting with me agreed I could pay half of the going rate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can move in 1st October, and last night I called my WH for a talk. Made a list of all the practical stuff we needed to talk about.

We sat and my plan was only to talk "business", schedules with the kids, finances, moving...But he started out by talking about his feelings, sobbing his heart out how awful he was having it.

I still have VERY strong feelings for him guys. I´m bound to him in a way I can´t explain - he is my true love. I just know it. It tore me apart to see how depressed and down he was. I told him that as long as he was seeing "her", then I could not help him. I can´t. I have to stand on my own two feet and get my life back together again. Plan B it is. For ME!!!!

Getting this house makes me feel so much stronger. Just today, a female colleague of mine wrote a mail to me, queen, you are such a beautiful woman, are you aware that when you were walking down in the cantine this lunch time, guys were having knives and forks falling out of their hands. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

There you go! The strength shines through...My WH does not know what he is losing!

(pity I am not even slightly interested in anyone else though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) Guess that time will come.

Well, moving out will make Plan B easier. I did tell my WH two "personal" things though. 1. That if it does not work out with him and OW after trying and he has nothing better than to "try" with me, then he can forget about it. I won´t be 2nd or last choice. Have too much respect and self worth to jump into something where he did not choose me as No.1. Secondly told him if he ever brings OW into our now mutual home, he will have also raped our mutual territory and I will never come back to this home.

Had to say those two things because I mean them. Give him something to think about.

Gotta go and cook kids a meal.
Just wanted to share the good news.

-queen-

Good for you! You sound great!

I can really feel the strength in your posting! And you have set some very clear boundaries.

You are not giving up on your M, you are giving up on the M the way it USED to be. What are your ideals for a GREAT M?

Oh dear, sigh, here we go again.

Plan B in the rubbish bin. Comments to last incidents?

Last Wednesday we had the "talk" and agreed practical stuff, now that I am moving out next weekend.

We agreed we would spend our last weekend together under the same roof, tell the kids together and talk about what I will be packing -maikng the split.

Friday evening went well. We had a long talk (he did most of it). Seemed like he might be turning around but did not put too much hope or weight on any of his words. He has some remorse, but is still in the fog.

He slept in the guest room. I tried to sleep in our bed. No sleep cause little one was up vomiting all night and had diarrea, so I was changing sheets all night and washing him. Did not ask WH to help though until morning when I was just so wasted. (had not slept for many many nights).

Wh took over. He washed vomity sheets, gave little one a bath, took dog for walk and started to make brunch. He came up to check on me andmy sleeping (could not sleep) and then offered a back massage to help me relax. I was just so tired I was willing to try anything to fall asleep. You know that feeling when you are so tired you can´t sleep anymore?

So, he starts massaging me and one thing leads to another. B4 u know it we are having hot passionate sex and lovemaking all weekend, and finally I manage to sleep. SF does that to me,I sleep really well.

O.K. so now you all say Plan B is truly shredded. I guess you are right. But I did explain him the following.

That he should not think that because I gave into him physically, that what he has done is o.k because it is not. The reason I am moving out is what happened that Saturday when I met him with the OW. He said he is ashamed and remorseful about that and that he wishes he could take that night back. I continued to tell him that I need to move out now no matter whether he finishes all contact with OW or not, because I need some time to reflect my feelings on how much he really has hurt me,and whether there is a way back, because I think it has gone way too far.

I also told him that it scared me to let go of our 8 yr relationship, but that relationship and marriage has to be buried, moving out for me is finalizing thefact that it no longer exists for me. Whether we find a way into each others hearts again in the future remains to be seen. Maybe, maybe not. But as long as this continues that way will seem more and more impossible.

I also explained to him that making love together just proved to me that there are alot of strong feelings left and it is harder to let go than I thought. But still, it means nothing more than that, there are feelings, there is still love, but there is NO WAY, if he continues this contact business, and there is NO WAY, if he runs to me because it doesn´t work out for him and there is NO WAY, if he brings her into the mutual home we built and he is staying in.

I don´t know how you see it guys, but even though I managed to show him that I still feel for him, care for him,desire him and love him, I also showed him that I would not put up with it anymore. Just because I acted human this weekend does not give him the right to think he still hasme and everything is o.k.

Well, after all that he asked whether we should go to therapy together and I said I was reluctant but would think about it.

He also asked if I would go to a birthday party with him mid November. I said I did not know,but would get back to him.

Today I told him that I just read that a "famous" couples therapist was giving a lecture on "why love whithers" on wednesday evening, and if I was to be interested in couples therapy, then maybe we should first check this guy out and see what kind of principles he has in his lecture...
He said he would like to go.

WH also called me today and told me OW has told her H that she has been having an affair for 8 months and he wanted to "warn" me just in case he called. I told him that if OW H was to call my WH, that not to be an [censored], because that H of hers is probably hurting like anything and that I should know, been there, done that.

So thats the update. Hit me!

P.S. I will go back into a full blown Plan B when I move this weekend. WH is not living here rest of week, but he will be around for kids so I can get some packing done.

-queen-

Why would I hit you? Sounds like you're beating yourself up enough. Sounds like you said all the right things when it came to setting clear boundaries.

Falling off the horse like this is a setback...I've heard it's like starting your Plan B at day one...but you've restated your position, and you are still moving out.

I'm not a good one to talk. I wrote letters to my FWH and we would have serious talks about once a week...mostly about how plans would work (vacation, etc.) Then there was the one night I found them both on chat at the same time (2+2=cheating) and confronted him (and her) about it online.

Each persons Plan B and recovery is different. There are quite a few things that are the same though.

Seeing the lecture together is interesting... Would you guys consider phone counseling with the Harley's or Cerri?

And having the OW tell H is VERY GOOD NEWS!! It means they are beginning to see the remorse in their actions. I wonder if he's hoping she will break it off so he doesn't have to...and be the bad guy.

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: StillHereMakingIt ]</small>

WOW! Well, if your going to break PlanB..
I suppose we should start swinging away with the 2x4s, but the fact is I would give anything to make love to WW again, and would sure as hell break PlanB to do it.

Thanks 23down and SHMI. The fact is I set boundaries, I am moving on and out AND I got to make love to my husband and he made love to me, his wife. So whichever way you look at it, yeps, I broke the plan, but I did not feel like a victim or did not get hurt. And we connected.

So, how is the plan going? Update?

Been thinking about you!

So, now I have moved out to a new house. My WS and I spent last Wed to Sun evening under the same roof. I packed whilst he watched the kids. Sat the moving men came, and I moved to the new house. Up til Sat morning my WH and I slept and made love in the same bed. We hugged and kissed. He told me he loved me very much and was on the verge of tears constantly. Like me.

He kept on asking whether this was the right thing to do. He also said that if he was to call OW straight away and say it was over, whether I would still move. I replied to him, that I would, because he has promised it so many times that I would not put myself through yet another dissappointment. That if there was a chance for us, then it would have to be for real, not just because it is too tough for him to see me move out of his life.

During all this moving stuff I came down with the flu. So I have been moving, making home etc. with fever and a bad cough. Did not go to work Mon-Tues, but today had to show up because there is so much work to do. I have now gone from a part time job to full time, so I can economically stand on my own two feet until 1.June (That is when the rental contract expires, so I will be looking for something more permanent in the mean time).

The house is wonderful. I have everything now in place, pictures on walls, curtains hanging. My WH bought me a new designer dining table w/chairs, a flat screen tv. stereo system, new beds for kids...It seemed like he really wanted me to have it nice and cosy, and I have everything I need.

SO where am I? I feel lost and I feel empty. The five days we were together was a big jump out of Plan B, and turned into alot of affection, love, talking and crying. We even went to hear this couple therapist give a lecture Wed evening. It was interesting, he talked alot about how things go wrong in a relationship, with too much work, small babies, losing the connection to ones partner. It was a humorous lecture, where everyone could relate to the problems.

Afterwards my WH and I talked about the lecture, ( I let him do the relationship talking as I think he needs to take intitiative) and he said "well, its easy to see how it has gone wrong for us, but what do you do when it is truly broken? How do you fix it?". I let that question hang, without any solutions or response. I feel that since I have been doing all the work in "plan a" that I will not come with the solutions on a silver platter for him. If he wants this, he has to make some decisions and he also has to want to fight for it. Am I wrong?

Back to where I am. Sunday evening my WH left with the kids and I spent my first night alone in the new house. I cried myself to sleep as I was missing my children (and WH after the 5 days of love & affection) so much. We have made an agreement that I have the kids 9 days and he then has them 5 days (Thu-Tues). Yesterday I had them in the house for the first time. It was weird. Everything is in its place but it just does not seem like home. I can´t sit down, and feel like I have to keep moving, keep doing "something or anything".

I think I know I have to go back into a plan B again, but it feels tough to do, because I feel very vulnerable and insecure in my new surroundings. (My top emotional need is security - in terms of home & having my "frame" in order and affection walks hand in hand with my need security... ). So now that I have the security, but don´t feel like it is my home yet, and I don´t have the affection & feelings to make home feel like home = LOST & EMPTY.

My WH is out travelling from today til Friday, so I will be spending my nights with the kids in the old house because of our dog. I am not allowed to take the dog in the new house - its in the rental contract because of the owners allergy. So somehow I will continue to be connected to our old home...The plan is that my WH will make our "old" master bedroom into an office for five of his employees and he will make the upstairs of our old home into his new office. Then the dog will have company when my WH is out travelling in the daytime and one of the employees can take the dog for a walk. But when my WH is out travelling and the dog is alone, I will at times spend my nights in the house w/kids to look after it. My conditions to doing this was that OW NEVER sets a foot into our home, else I will not set a foot in our home, never mind spending the night there. My WH has promised that he will comply to those terms.

I feel like I am maneuvering in a grey zone...could somebody help me in guiding me onto the right path? I still hope that there is a chance for my WH and me. Am I moving in the right direction? Any thoughts?
What do I do? A little bit of advice would be greatly appreciated.

-queen-

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

P.S

OW is now divorced from her H. And she wants my WH bad (he told me so, but that he was not sure what he wanted anymore with her...)

He also said that if he was to call OW straight away and say it was over, whether I would still move.

OW is now divorced from her H. And she wants my WH bad (he told me so, but that he was not sure what he wanted anymore with her...)

poor poor poor husband...wondering if he "were" to "call" her straight away and say it was "over".....would you not move out...hhhmmmm

poor poor husband...has a wife and a mistriss who both want to be married to HIM...(lucky guy)...and he's just "not sure" what he wants....

playing you playing you playing you...

How does my WH begin to fight for me and stop all contact with OW?

he does it like everyone else who does by deciding what is of real value and honor...
you can't do this for him...

there's no mystery to him doing it..it's him doing the actions needed to be the type of husband and father you and your children are worthy of....

My top emotional need is security - in terms of home & having my "frame" in order and affection walks hand in hand with my need security... ).

The thing that sounds even more scary to me...is FALSE SECURITY...FALSE AFFECTION...FALSE FEELINGS....

Queenof...this is your growing time..and with it comes pain..but this is your defining moment of saying enough is enough...
and you are easily letting yourself be dragged right back from which you came...

not sure what he wants from the other woman...
Is there any other answer you need from him..
any other answer????

His not being sure
his waffling
his still not making any action or decision...

is you just allowing the same thing again back in to your life...

you and he will get comfortable with seeing him more at your place..
a lovely dinner with the family...
ends up back in your bed...
and then one night after being in your bed...says he has to check on something at the office...
and straight to the OW...

over and over and over and over and over again...
only thing different is the physcial surroundings and the new TV...

this is not to beat you up....or even find much negativity with what you have done during the move...infact plan b is better after a really strong plan a...

if he is away right now...time to tighten up the plan b reigns...
and when he returns NO CONTACT...because no doubt he's expecting things to settle into this comfortable cake eating pattern...

do you want to go back to this scary foundation of lies and double-speak queen of...

here's what you wrote before the move...

told him that as long as he was seeing "her", then I could not help him. I can´t. I have to stand on my own two feet and get my life back together again. Plan B it is. For ME!!!!

Seemed like he might be turning around but did not put too much hope or weight on any of his words. He has some remorse, but is still in the fog.

But still, it means nothing more than that, there are feelings, there is still love, but there is NO WAY, if he continues this contact business, and there is NO WAY, if he runs to me because it doesn´t work out for him and there is NO WAY, if he brings her into the mutual home we built and he is staying in.

I could go on and on...

blessings and prayers to you queenof...
time to throw yourself in to work, the kids, find a new project, class, interest...and fill your life...with light and joy...

he KNOWS what he needs to do...
It is in his hands....

ARK

I agree with Ark here...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> if he is away right now...time to tighten up the plan b reigns...
and when he returns NO CONTACT...because no doubt he's expecting things to settle into this comfortable cake eating pattern...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was great to say goodbye, to have the last bit of Plan A, but time for Plan B.

I hear the fear in your voice...she's available, you won't be, she's easily accessible, you won't be, he's going to fall for her, then why does he spend so much time with you? Because she's not enough. But for some reason he's attached to her...excitement, not wanting to hurt her, newness, who knows what he's getting from her, but it's not enough. (Ain't that a run-on sentence).

Maybe my point was lost...what he's getting from her is NOT ENOUGH. If you remove yourself from the equation, then he will have a half-life. The OW was like the bow on the package...not needed, but a nice surprise. You've since learned how to give him the whole package (bow included) and he will remember that. When he realizes he doesn't have a history with her...

It's a matter of how soon he realizes this. And this you cannot change. The more you remove yourself from the equation, the more he will miss the EN's you gave.

So, time for Plan B? IMVHO, I think so. Time for a new Plan B letter? Perhaps. And in it expalin how taking care of the dog will be his responsibility, he will have to find someone else to care for it (he/she/it?) He's got friends he can call on. Don't make it so easy for him to live without you. Don't fulfill his Domestic Support Emotional Need. Putting yourself in the house again will not be taking you out of the equation and has the potential to fulfill his needs (unless saying no has come easier?)

You are doing an excellent job! You miss him, he needs to know you are willing to work on the M if only...tell him what your expectations are? N/C, accountability, honesty, what else? Then leave it at that...no more contact.

And keep yourself busy...start a new class, meet new people, get the kids involved in something new.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:

The OW was like the bow on the package...not needed, but a nice surprise. You've since learned how to give him the whole package (bow included) and he will remember that. When he realizes he doesn't have a history with her...

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PERFECT ..... write this on a piece of paper and tape it to your mirror .... "I am THE whole package" ..... and don't forget it!

Let him see how much he misses you .... the "bow" OW will not be enough ..... you'll see.

Plab B and really DO IT ..... now is the time to get serious!

Pep

PS..... Plan B after great sex? perfect!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive. I AM the WHOLE package bow inclusive.

And the OW, well, she´s just the bow, a nice suprise but missing the content! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks for the pep talk ARK, Still here making it and Pepperband - You shed some light in the midst of a very empty, lonely and dark place.

Cyberhugs for saving my day!

-queen-

A small update.

I spent last night in the old house looking after the dog and ended up "snooping" around and found my WH Mastercard bill, which got me fuming.

Well I sent a nasty LB text message to him and told him that this looking after the dog thing I won´t do anymore, because things are lying around in the house that create more hurt.

He sent me the following mail back;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hi my dear,

I don't know why you suddently lost it again yesterday - if you for some reason think of the time I have stayed at the Hotel - please notice I had to be somewhere with OW since I promised you not to bring her to any of the mutual places we two shared... And since she has been here on business, I have not payed if you refer to me spending money!

Enough of that now - I just wanted to make things straight - since nothing has changed from what we have discussed lately... But maybe it has for you (again)?

Kiss WH </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I replied him with the following;

Dear WH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "...since I promised you not to bring her to any of the mutual places we two shared..." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whatever, Our cafe...The night club...The Hotel...broken promises.
Our home? Well you know that I am not coming back there if that happens...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "...I just wanted to make things straight - since nothing has changed from what we have discussed lately... But maybe it has for you (again)?" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope, nothing has changed. Still love you. Still want our marriage to have its chance. Still won´t accept being part of this tacky threesome. Still want the pain to stop. Still think I deserve a supportive, loving and caring husband like you deserve a supportive, loving and caring wife. Still agree that we have both made some stupid mistakes and we have not met each others needs so that this situation has occurred. Still believe in us. Still believe we share something unique.

Nope ,nothing has changed for you either, has it? Because you still continue your thing. Besides the fact that now I am out of your life and you are finally "free".

I saw a copy of your Mastercard bill and funnily enough it is you that have paid for the hotel bills, why else would they be on YOUR Mastercard plus your romantic dining at Victors....all of that adds up to a nice round little sum of 7000 within a month plus God knows what ever extras...In comparison to spending money on clothes for kids at H&M for 7546 to get them through the winter, I would say that our mutual economy is been spent on this woman, who obviously can afford her own hotel bills and dining, she only has herself to keep on her multimillion salary.

I am also VERY UPSET about the fact that on Tuesday you could not make it home earlier to keep your agreement to have one kid = our eldest son, because you had to fit a meal in with OW at the airport. That sucks.

Like I said I pull myself out of this equation of three people. I do not want to be a part of it anymore. I want a life for me and our children where I do not have to encounter more of this hurt. I love you and I have been wishing and fighting for working things out but none of that is going to happen as long as she is in the picture. And none of it is going to happen as long as you don´t wish or want the same. I cannot handle being in the house without "snooping" around. Its tactless, tasteless, call it what ever you want, but since I still care and since I still hurt because of all of this, it is best for me to not be anywhere near your surroundings. You are still causing me pain because I bloody still care for you, miss you and love you... and it needs to STOP! More pain is out of the equation too.

The dog. A solution needs to be found, this will not work.

Financial support. I suggest xxxx/child (and no, I did not pull it out of a hat because I asked our friend what her ex pays her, but what do I know. Since you can spend 7K on OW or maybe even more in a month just to be with her, I guess its not so much - these are our kids AFTER ALL). There is something called wife support as well, but since you are paying the mobile and car...

But maybe you are already at the point where you want to proceed with the seperation and make it all nice and fine and legal. Well file away my dear. Then you and OWcan have a happy divorcee party in half a year. Whey to go!

Oh, just in case I did not make myself clear first time around.

As long as she is in the picture I can´t do it anymore. If and when you stop it, maybe we then can start on a new beginning for both of us - Rome was not built in a day and neither would a new marriage. You can get back to me if you ever get to that point.

Queen

******************************************

Guys this was my cue to jump back into N/C in PB.
Now its about me and the kids and getting my life back on track. I am out of the equation. Thank you for your support.

My personal everyday mantra;

I am the WHOLE wonderful package, bow inclusive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ October 09, 2003, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: Queen of a broken heart ]</small>

Wow, what a GREAT letter!

Full of love and care and showing him how much this hurts, and full of FIRM boundaries.

I think he's got the idea that he can have you both if he just waits around and you will give back in (you have before). Not to give you a hard time, but it does make him arder to believe that this latest Plan B is for good...for real.

But the longer he goes without your love and support...the more painful this separation will be. Men do not fall for OW becaus they are just as selfish as they are. You can tell by the way he is expected to pay for the hotel bill. Heck, if she wants him so bad why doesn't she get an apartment in town? Or is it that she doesn't want him...just his attention and to see how many hoops he can jump through. Let's see how quickly he tires of this.

So now what? No more email, no more contact (except VERY matter of factly about the kids). He is going to try to pull you back in any way he can. See it for what it is...

I am TOTALLY wrecked.

I have infection in my cheek bones and my lungs so had to go to doctors and get antibiotics. I sent a message to my WH and told him that tomorrow Friday I would not go to work as I have fever but I would walk the dog and put money out for the cleaning woman I have arranged for him once a week and tell her what to do. But that then I would go home to my new home and rest and he can take it from there.

I then receive a message from him saying, I´m sorry but I forgot I am leaving to London Friday afternoon and am away the weekend. What do WE do with the dog.

I´m sorry guys this is too much. I wrote him back and said I am ill, burnt out and need some rest so he has to figure that one out. I am no catering service for his romantic getaways with OW.

He wrote back that he planned this trip ages ago and that he did not know back then that he had the dog full time. And did the dog have to suffer because of that?

I tell you, I was really on the verge of a mental breakdown. I cant handle this **** anymore. WHO THE HELL DOES HE THINK HE IS?

Well, looks like if I don´t do something the dog is on its own and I love it too much for that. Have now aranged for it a place to stay the weekend, because I WILL NOT do this thing staying in the old house to take care of it, whilst WH is all over the place. If nothing else we will have to find ourdog a new family, because my WH can´t live upt o the responsibility. He is a bloody Peter Pan.

I am really upset. Feel treaded all over and the only one to blame is ME! I let him. IT HAS TO STOP!

Just venting. I am just so angry. And what is he doing? Taking Ms.moneybag to London on our mutual economy to impress her - oh, I know his ways and it makes me sick to think he is going to take her everywhere the two of us have been...trashing all the nice memories I have of us in London!

I HATE THIS. IT SUCKS.

And my heart is slowly dying a very painful death :-(

queen of a numb heart

Queen -

Boy, I know just how hard this period of time is for you! I lived through something too similar, and I'm so glad for you that it's the dog and not the baby he's tossing around!

So, take care of yourself!!! NO more contact with him! I know you love the dog, but NO MORE of this! You're tired, burned out, sick and in need of comforting!

You need chicken soup, not dealing with this crap.

So love yourself, get yourself chicken soup, and STOP ANSWERING WH's e-mails, calls, voicemails, letters, faxes, and smoke signals. Matter of fact about the kids is fine, but NONE of this other stuff!

Your body is screaming at you right now with the illness you have. It's saying STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!

Listen to it. Just stop doing everything for a while. Get in bed and stay there. Sleep. Drink lots of fluids. Take your medicine. My body did the exact same thing during that perioid of my life, and I did what I could to listen to it. It's protecting you as well as it can; give it the love it needs and protect yourself consciously as well as lymphatically! (I wonder if that's really a word...)

Wish I could get there to make soup for you, but know that it's headed your way in my thoughts!