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#1089539 11/14/03 11:11 AM
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<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

#1089540 11/14/03 11:24 AM
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Queen:

Your post made me want to cry.

My FWH's long-term A started just like the relationship you are talking about now. You are having an Emotional Affair. There is a high likelihood that it will eventually become physical. I had to fight the temptation to talk to other men. It feels good now but you are going down the same road as your WH. If you continue with it, there is no chance that you will reconcile with your husband.

I believe in marriage. There should be no outside relationships with another man.

Honestly, my WH said the same things you are saying about his OW. She listened to me, understood me, etc. Of course, this can happen in a new relationship.

Please stop it!

Your situation is such a trigger for me. I will stop now before I say the wrong thing to you. I really wish you well. Do the right thing if you really believe in MB principles.

#1089541 11/14/03 02:02 PM
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Hi Queen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am ready to move on. I am not sure whether my husband is the kind of husband I really want. My lover/friend (this is NOT an affair) is my channel of becoming stronger. My talks with him have opened up windows I have not seen before. I am no longer blinded by the dream of my WH is the ONE. He is not the end of the world. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry the pain that you have been going through. But in this quote you need a reality check. Your still married, and you are having and EA/PA. You can call it a ONS or anything else, but it doesn't change it for what it is. Until a D is final it is an Affair. Sorry if this hurts or causes you pain, but you are to good of a person to delude yourself. You are very special, your heart has been hurt, and you do deserve to be treated better then you have.

Your channel of strength has always been in yourself, take what you've learned, use it.

Now, what do you want to do? You've Plan A'ed, Your Plan B'ing, and your now ready to move on. What do you want to do? It is strange that some WS's are happy to have their cake until they see that their BS is ready to move on.

You'll be in my thoughts and my prayers.

#1089542 11/24/03 09:31 AM
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I have not sent this letter yet, and just when I was about to hit the enter button in sending it, I thought I HAD to run it by MB before I did it.

I really feel like I have given this everything and need to be in Plan D. To let go and to move on. The only thing that holds me back is my own fear of survival. My fear of the kids not having the "family". My fear of being alone. Its fear of the unknown.

Do I have an inkling of a feeling left for WH. Yes. yes and yes. But its just a dream. He will never be the husband I wished for. He knows nothing about being two, being us, being a family. He knows everything about being a teenager living his own selfish life. I really truly do not believe he is capable of changing that. Ever. He is the "playboy for life" type.

Well this is the letter I plan to send him;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dear WS,

This weekend my eyes opened.

I want to move on with my life.

I thought I could just wait and see, but I am tired of not knowing where my commitment is.

To a marriage to a husband that is not there, and never really has been there. A husband that has been fxxxxg around left right and centre, living another life behind my back for our entire marriage, because he didn´t have the courage to be a man and say he was unhappy/dissatisfied/ whatever? To a husband that STILL has no courage to face the demons with me?

Or do I commit to a life for myself finding the happiness, love and commitment I believe I deserve and I know I can get?

I was a loyal, faithful and patient wife to you out of my very strong love for you, which you obviously did not feel or respect. I have been through hell and back with you, stood by you through the worst in EVERY imagineable way. (no I don´t believe I am a saint, but I bloody do know how to commit to something I believe in, to someone I love deeply - be it a ****ty situation or not).

After the "wake up" call with your latest affair there was NOTHING, no stone I would have left unturned, nothing, I would not have done to find a way for us to find a happy and fulfilling life together - even if it meant bending the rules a bit or finding new ones - for us. There never was an us.

I have repeated it over and over again that I would just not accept ANY women in our marriage outside the boundaries we set. They had to go.

You have rejected everything.

You have rejected My love. You have rejected My patience. You have rejected My forgiveness. You have rejected My Hope and Belief in us. You have rejected Us. You have rejected Our family. You have rejected any chance to put it back together again. (and if you think buying tickets to NY without consulting / respecting me and my plans or time, was giving it a chance - then think again!).

I am not some dumb bimbo. I understand what you continue not saying to me.

You continue your contact. I wish you well. You can give this mail to her as a Xmas Present for the both of you! I´m sure she will be as thrilled as you are!

I can´t do it anymore, even though I still have feelings for you and probably always will.

What is it they say;? Watch out what you wish for, you might get it. Well you do.

Lets talk divorce.

Queen

P.S.
Oops, my choice again!
Because I´m the only one having the balls in this relationship to make one!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-comments before i send it?

#1089543 11/24/03 10:06 AM
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Dear Queen:

What are you hoping to gain by sending the letter?

I could go through and comment on each sentence or paragraph but what would be the point? I think you are sending it to cause a rise out of him or get him to respond back and again I say, what to you hope to gain by sending the letter?

If you really want to file for divorce, file for divorce, but what explanation is needed?

I think maybe just a short note, saying, "I'm ready to file, or would you rather be the one?"
is sufficient.

JMVHO,
DB

#1089544 11/24/03 10:28 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Queen of a broken heart:
<strong> I really feel like I have given this everything and need to be in Plan D. To let go and to move on. The only thing that holds me back is my own fear of survival. My fear of the kids not having the "family". My fear of being alone. Its fear of the unknown.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a big believer in "if you can honestly say you have tried everything possible", then you can move forward with a clear conscience.

As far as the letter, it sounds like you are trying to hurt him and make him feel bad, and it doesn't seem like that's productive in any way. If it makes you feel better to write it down and throw it away, then by all means do it (I kind of like to print mine out and then burn them). But what good, what growth, what positive will come out of sending a letter like that to him? I think modifying to something like this would be enough:

<strong>
This weekend my eyes opened.

I want to move on with my life.

I thought I could just wait and see, but can't. I can´t do this anymore, even though I still have feelings for you and probably always will.

I will be filing for divorce.

</strong>

#1089545 11/24/03 02:37 PM
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Queen

I agree about the letter, KS's letter is short and to the point.

Eventually he will wake up and realize what he has lost.

#1089546 11/24/03 06:16 PM
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Queen, I'm opposed to you sending this letter in any form. It's just full of hurt, of wanting to punish him for what he's done. At its core, it's a last stand plea for him to see the error of his ways.

It will not work.

Please, don't do this. Stay dark, stay cool, stay on track. You -can- do this. You haven't yet turned every stone. You haven't turned the stone of silence. Until you do, there is one that remains before divorce.

#1089547 11/25/03 03:47 AM
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Just J.

Why, why, why, why do you really think I should stay dark. You always get me to reconsider, stop and wonder?

I am not sure you are right, of course you aren´t either, but your words are an irritating little buzz in my ear.

I have been my WH greatest addiction, because I was living close to him -even though it wasn´t good for me. I knew he wasn´t good for me, because during my eight years with him I turned from being a happy, playful, loving person to a sad, passive introvert.

I couldn´t really care less about my own life. My WH couldn´t really care less about how my life was doing. All we ever talked about was him, his dreams, ideas, work...

When I moved to this country (with my then 2yr old son) and was deeply in love with my WH, I knew that I would learn the language and find a job and get myself a new life. I had done it before and I could do it again. I have a university business degree and a track record in both languages and career that couldn´t stop me. But I had done all this before with support. My WH was my only support and he wasn´t there. He didn´t care about how I was doing, how I was handling it. He just expected me to do it. Well, that didn´t end very well and within a year I became very depressed. I got pregnant with our daughter and the depression got worse.

Did my WH wake up and help, support me? No, his selfish self, said to him, oh queen is not giving me SF, queen is not giving me kisses when I walk through the door, queen is not this, not that. This man knows I am having a depression and all he thinks about is his needs? One day he comes home and I am standing there with my big tummy, him babbling about his work, his ideas and then starts complaining about why I didn´t kiss him when he walked through the door and it snaps. I start shouting and crying at him that I can´t take it anymore - can´t he for once stop talking about him and ask how I am doing?

He gets in a rage and throws me out of our mutual appartment, whilst I am pregnant. And because at this point my depression is so deep that I am on the verge of being suicidal, I run barefoot (midwinter) on the street and try to think where to go, what to do, because I am never going back to this lunatic again.

My protective instinct was obviously so strong that I found myself in front of a psychiatric emergency unit, and spend the night there talking to a psychologist that tells me I need help.

I had never been pushed to this limit before.

For my WH, all of this, is just a game. He does not see that if you do A you get the reaction B. Right now the thing that baffles him is that his latest affair ended up with her getting a divorce and me moving out. Oops. There are consequences to ones actions!

The only reason my WH would turn around and want back is his own selfish need for other women. I am bi. After the wake up call, my WH and I explored my bi-side together. With another couple. With another girl. The girl thing was a fiasco, because she was only interested in my WH because of our status. The couple thing was fun and a success to some extent, but because of the whole horrid situation with my WH, it was still not what I wanted. I did not feel safe, loved or protected.

Now, my WH is thinking, WOW! I could do all these things with Queen. So I can have it all. He is not thinking about me at all. Because if he did, he would be interested in knowing what I want, how to go slowly and surely ahead to repair all the damage, to rebuild trust. For me to be convinced that it is really me he loves. The NY trip was another one of his highs. Another hope for a wild time with Queen.

This is where he is at. Where he has always been. Our mutual friends ask me, Queen, do you really think he will change?

The answer to that question is NO. He won´t. But, if he does it will be in 10 yrs time. I don´t have 10 yrs to wait until he grows up.

I really deserve better. So do our children.

I can only make changes for me. Divorce is one of them.

Just J. I still won´t send the ultra shortened version of the letter until I have heard what you have to say. I know you all think I still love him, and maybe I still do. I am curious to your whys? You are an intelligent woman, with a highly developed senses & instincts. And of course what I have written is just a drop in the sea. But can´t you sense my desperation of saying no to the life I have lived and to find a more deeper, fulfilling one?

-queen-

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

#1089548 11/25/03 10:25 AM
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Your story has touched me and my knee jerk instinct is to say...dump his 4$$. But that's not why you're here.

I too have been in a relationship for over 10 years with a Passive-Aggressive (very similar to narcissist) and have waited all this time for him to GROW UP.

Hate to say this now, but the A was the wake up call our M needed. Plan A was OK, I made some real changes in my attitude and got put on medicine that has really helped my mood swings. But it didn't seem to help him. Of course we had to move to Plan B. I did a horrible Plan B, we had continued contact because he was a stay at home dad...our contact had to be about the kids. But he moved out and I set boundaries of when he was allowed to be in our lives...our family vacation was without him...our family events did not include him. It was a tough time.

A wise person told me that she has talked with SO MANY people that have divorced and regretted it later. I kept that in mind when I moved to Plan B and I tried to make it seem as close as possible to what it would feel like after we were divorced...business-like communication, and he didn't get to share in my joyful life.

I had given him a Plan B letter...but not a very good one (just one where I told him the rules...we would not share our house or our lives with him as a family). There was a major turn around when I gave him the Plan B letter that laid out conditions for him to come home. There were 5 things that were important to me...N/C letter (and no contact), Counseling, Medicine, Truth and accountability, more time spent with the family. That day he resented being told he had to do these things...I told him he didn'thave to, it was his choice...put that way he decided to make a change.

I hear in your posts that you are willing to give up....but you're not. You are still holding out hope for him to change...

Unfortunately we can't do anything to make a person change...they have to do it on their own.

The reason we are telling you to stay dark is so he can get an idea of what it is like to be divorced...truly divorced...what life will be like without Queen. And for you to protect the love you have, or get used to being divorced too. You have nothing to lose...if you are ready to divorce, pretend you are already.

The more email or contact you have with him, the more engaging with him you do, the less likely he will miss you, and the more you will be hurt by his actions (or inactions.)

You are strong.

If you are truly ready to divorce...go ahead. I think you are still holding out for him to pull his head out.

Perhaps a letter that gives terms for a renewal of the M and a time limit.

I get the idea you have a hard time asking for what you want in this M and he bowls you over with his wants and needs. Time for Queen to ask for what she wants and needs?

<small>[ November 25, 2003, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: StillHereMakingIt ]</small>

#1089549 11/27/03 04:28 AM
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Update.

It is Thursday today. On Monday evening after I posted my divorce letter on MB I was feeling so much anger and resentment towards my WH that it overwhelmed me.

I wrote him a message telling him that I was now at the end of my rope and he could take the champagne bottle out to celebrate, because I was now heading for divorce.

He wrote back and couldn´t understand what had happened. Of course not, I´m in Plan B. He hasn´t known what I have been going through.

Tuesday he messaged me to ask whether I would come by with kids to see lord of the rings extended version. I said yes, because I figured now I would give him a long letter explaining that I was tired of living like this "in-the-middle", stuck. I wanted to move on with my life.

I went by Tuesday evening and he had made food, bought a beautiful xmas decoration for me, poured me a glass of wine and gave me a big strong hug. I felt like I was being sucked in again and lost my footage(mentally). We ate, and thankfully I had to go and pick up our eldest son from his climbing class and go back to my WH place. Sitting in the car I managed to recollect myself, take some deep breaths and "de-suck" myself out of his sphere.

I came back and we stood and talked. I made the first move asking him if he was still seeing and talking to the OW. He said yes. I told him I was so sick and tired of this that it was time for me to move on. Nothing is going to change and nothing will. He asked me whether I was seeing someone and I said yes, I have a friend. That seemed to rock him totally and he started telling me that how could I deceive him like this, considering that I promised him I would never do anything of the likes.

I just said, well, the situation changed. I was unrealistic. I thought I was stronger. Obviously I wasn´t. I told him that I have written a letter to him and that he should read it. He took it and threw it into the fireplace. He continued to say that he has been missing me and the kids like crazy and that he has just really being needing to talk to me. That he has been trying really hard to get through to me. I disagreed with him and told him that he has not been trying at all.

That if his trying was the trip to NY then he was trying in the wrong way - I did not want the highs anymore.

He said that he bought the trip to NY because he just wanted to talk and that he had actually arranged something nice for us. I said it didn´t matter, the whole arrangement was over my head, and he did not respect or take into consideration that I might not want to go.

Then I went to the toilet and saw a facial cream I had not seen before. Coming out of the toilet there were a pair of womens prada running shoes in the hallway -not mine.

I flipped out completely. Yes the lots. Anger. Disrespectfullness. The works. I told him that I really meant it when I said I would never come back to that house if the OW set foot on our mutual territory. He started defending himself that he did not understand it like that.

I told him I didn´t care and I didn´t know whether I had any feelings left for him anyway and just jumped into my car and left.

He sent messages telling me that he did not understand my anger, considering my own deceipt. Right.

In the morning he sent a file with divorce papers and a file concerning our assets and children that he wanted me to sign. I wrote back and said -it is fine by me, but he should send the papers signed by him to me, now that he finally made the effort to get our divorce started.

He then sent me various mails from how much he loved me, always has and s missing me - to - how he can´t understand my deceipt of him and how dissappointed he is in me that I can´t stick to my word and promises - to- his money problems and his depression - to- how stupid he has been but there is no turning back and he has now given up and needs to move on with his life.

He wrote me that the NY trip was to talk and ask me to marry him again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I wrote him and said I was willing to talk with him calmly later. His initial reaction was no, but then later he said he was in tears, that yes, lets please talk.

So last night I went by late and we talked. He told me how sad and depressed he was. He continued to tell me that he had told OW yesterday that he needed some time alone, that she still wants the world with him, but he is confused. He tried to manipulate the situation many times and got a rise out of me, so that I got up to walk out. He told me that if I expected him to fall on his knees with a bunch of roses and say sorry I could forget about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
It was all about his feelings, his hurt, his confusion, his depression.

It was hard to get a word in but I told him about my dissappointments. I told him how much I hated him for not being there for me and the kids the weekend after I moved out and I got seriously ill. I cried telling him that. He said he didn´t think it was that serious, that it was just a trick to control him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Then he continued to make disrespectful judgements about me, of how he saw me. Blaming me again, it was me that started it all.

I felt and feel numb. Drained. He offered for me to stay the night and I said no. I am going home. I left at 2am.

My evaluation of the situation.

He does not know what he wants and now he is turning the situation around that I am the bad guy because I have a friend. Its like he is using a bait to say - I miss you, want you, but I can´t give up OW without knowing if you are there for me or not. My standpoint is that if he really misses me and loves me he will finish it for himself. Its not just a gift for me.

I have not told him I will give up my friend either yet. Of course I will and can, (my friend also knows this and expects it to happen if my WH and I reconcile) but I feel that the right thing is to not make any moves until he makes his.

Right now, my WH is expecting me to panic and show him the way, by saying O.K I will give up my friend and give this another chance. Then he will know he has still got me and just continue what he is doing. The OW is still on the side waiting.

The only thing for me to do is just hang on and pretend I am already divorced. I´m ready to go there anyway.

-queen-

#1089550 11/27/03 07:07 AM
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<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

#1089551 11/27/03 07:30 AM
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<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: A heart mending ]</small>

#1089552 11/27/03 09:51 AM
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Interesting to say the least....

Here are a few of my views and advice on what is the most effective course of action.

First of all, your WS seems to be the type of person who immediately looks for a way to DISAGREE with any of your thoughts or ideas or comments.

Here is just one example of his pattern of DISAGREEING....

You said:
Yesterday, in my opinion, was not much of a success.

his reply said:
I think yesterday was a success considering where we came from - we did manage to talk (even if upset once in a while), and we both handled (sometime with difficulties) our anger and at least came back to continue the discussion/conversation.

he later added:
Anyway the point is I think you are only wrong about one thing in your mail - that is your view of yesterday.

Here is another example of him DIASAGREEING...

you said:
Maybe we could start this dialogue by mail, so we don´t push the wrong triggers all the time.

His reply:

Maybe we can communicate via Email - but I would prefer to talk face-to-face - this creates a better connection

Have you noticed the pattern now, and can you think back through the years to see that this has been ongoing with him? I would bet that it has been a pattern you recognize if you think about it.

Now, the question is how do you get a person who always seems to take the OPPOSITE position of yours, to start taking a position that AGREES with yours?

It is a very simple answer. Learn to AGREE with his NEGATIVE views of situations, and then you will notice him suddenly changing his orignal views that you were arguing about....

Here is an example of how you accomplished that, and probably did not realize it at the time..

In the morning he sent a file with divorce papers and a file concerning our assets and children that he wanted me to sign.

Now notice how when you wrote back and AGREED with his negative view, what he did...

I wrote back and said -it is fine by me, but he should send the papers signed by him to me, now that he finally made the effort to get our divorce started.


here is where your agreement with moving toward the divorce with him, caused him to DISAGREE with that view and move back toward you.

He then sent me various mails from how much he loved me, always has and s missing me - to - how he can´t understand my deceipt of him and how dissappointed he is in me that I can´t stick to my word and promises


Notice the pattern?... So I would suggest to keep AGREEING with him that the marriage is to late too save, and you are not sure how you feel, and maybe it would be best if you each took some time apart from the other, and there is too much anger and blame going around, and yada yada yada....

My bet is that if you continue to show him that you finally see that it is over and that it just will not work, and that you have more or less given up, that he will take a postion of DISAGREEMENT on those view... GET IT?

DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR FRIEND!!! Why?.. Because it is WORKING to get him to think that he may lose you for good. So, do not give up something that is working. Others on here are going to try and talk you into giving the "friend" up. They are wrong. Please do not listen to their one sided opinions that will lead you to question yourself. Jealousy is a HUGE motivator in human nature,and that is not an opinion, but REALITY of life......

Stop acting angry about the other woman, and quit telling him how hurt you are. If you do mention these things, then put it in the PAST TENSE.(example:) "I WAS hurt over everything that has happened, but that doesn't matter anymore and I now realize there is nothing more to say or talk about." (of course he will want to DISAGREE with that comment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Good luck...

#1089553 11/27/03 10:02 AM
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Well.... that's interesting. And I'm very sorry that I didn't see your reply, Queen! I was looking for it, too.

What I see in these two letters and the things you've said about your interactions with your husband is this. I see two people (you and him) who are very upset, very sad, very angry. I see two people who still love each other and who don't know how to do it well.

I see two people who are now both in affairs.

I see a marriage that can be saved. You have an opportunity, Queen. Right here, right now. You have an opportunity to take that chance, to set aside your other man and ask your husband to set aside his other woman, and make this marriage work.

It will take a lot of work. You will have to discover that your husband does not control your happiness, and yet that he can add to it.

He will have to learn to listen and value you as much as he values himself. He will have to learn that his happiness doesn't come from other people, and yet you can add to it.

You can both learn these things. You both SHOULD learn these things. You have a chance, Queen, to save your marriage and to have a truly wonderful life with your husband.

He will have to change.

You will have to change.

That's not a bad thing. It's a wonderful thing.

And that's all I can write right now, since I've got to get in the car and drive to NYC now. Ahh, the joys of Thanksgiving Day traffic!

#1089554 11/27/03 10:04 AM
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Oh, and I suggested that you not send the letter because it was really about your pain and blaming him for it.

I wish you would spend this Plan B time learning that other people are not necessary for you to be at peace, that the man you're sleeping with is not necessary for you, that you can be alone and not be lonely. Those things are important in all this.

Find peacefulness, Queen. That's what Plan B is for. Peace for yourself.

#1089555 11/28/03 07:12 AM
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Nothing has happened or been said after my WH´s last e-mail.

Have a feeling that now that he feels I have a "friend", he is in a hurry to start building back the bridge to OW, because as he said, he had now organized time alone until after Xmas. He can´t handle that, so he figures that he has to do something about it.

It is not going to sway me one way or another, because if there is a way for us, the initiative has to come from him. It is he that needs to tell me what he would like for us to happen. If he doesn´t, once again - then his love for me is not real enough to want anything to change.

queen

#1089556 11/28/03 08:01 AM
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Dear Queen.
I am new to this board and have been reading through the messages from your original post.

I have been involved in a 10 year love affair with a man I love very much. (First five years PA, past 5 years EA.) I have been married for 35 years and love my husband also!

My OM always wanted me FOR KEEPS (he wasn't married) but knew I would never leave my husband or family...He has now found someone who can share her life with him, he is happy, and our affair is OVER.

So anyway, after all the advice you have gotten here and all the advice you have given and all the hurt you felt from your WH, I am in TOTAL SHOCK that YOU are now the OW.

How could you let that happen?
Dear Queen, you know better.
Am I to understand the man you are seeing is married with a sick wife?

You need help IMMEDIATELY from your friendly advisors & friends here at the board, before this affair advances.
Very very sincerely, Sarah

#1089557 11/28/03 08:42 AM
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Yes, if we are to look at this in MB terms I am both the WS and OW.

Unfortunately, for you and many others, I don´t quite see it that black and white, because it isn´t.

My friend is just that. A friend. Yes, you can call him an EA and a PA, because he is both. And then again not. Well friendships - no matter what kind of friends you are, are always on an emotional level. People tell their friends, things they would not tell their spouses - sometimes thats what friends are for. O.K, you don´t have SF with your friends, that is to be understood.

Well my friendship with him is based on an emotional bond and a physical bond, because we both also need the physical bond. He has no SF with his wife because she cannot physically fulfill that need. SF is one of my top needs and it has not been met for a very long time. A bit selfish - well, yes.

Again, you might think my friend is a weird man, in a weird marriage, because his wife has full acceptance to him having a physical bond with other women. The freedom she has given him, has taken pressure off decisions to be made in their marriage on unmet needs. My friend loves his wife very deeply and will never do anything to hurt her and will even protect her from their own painful decision that this is how it is.

For them to come to that conclusion has nothing to do with me. My friend lived (and is still living) with his wife during her terminal illness for two years without SF, until they came to the conclusion they came to. I am not a threat to their marriage and he is no threat to mine (well, except for my WH, that has trouble coming to terms with me having a friend like him). The situation is a bit special, I have to admit, but thats how it is.

But again, in MB terms, yes I am the OW. I am not wanting more from my friend than the friendship and support we have to offer. Our friendship is not driven by destructive factors that you see when two people are totally in love. I have told him that he has no future with me on a traditional relationship level and he has actually told me the same.

Right now we just plain care about each other and have the understanding that should either of our situations change with our spouses - we will have to say goodbye to our friendship because we have been intimate. If I do divorce my WH and want to find a new love in my life, he knows that we also need to say goodbye to the physical intimacy we have and maybe just try to preserve the freindship, if we can do that. If not - its goodbye.

We see each other quite seldomly (but often enough to maintain our friendship). We write to each other when we need to vent, or would like advice from each other.

I know, Sarah, that you saw me as the WS, like yourself, (I have been following your posts). However the reasons and underlying factors behind why I am here in the situation I am in right now are VERY different to yours.

I am letting go of my marriage. Do I have feelings for my husband. Yes. But do I want to continue with him like I have done for the past year with him continuing all the destructive, inconsistent and confusing behaviour with him running all over the place with his OW, who is now divorced from her own H because of this?

No.

I have come to terms with the fact that there may be nothing to save. Why? Because I don´t think my WH loves me enough. I have the feeling that he only loves himself. Maybe me having a friend and him "perceiving it as really losing me" might wake him up? (My friend and I have talked honestly and openly about this too, that this is kind of my WH last chance to show his true colours...)

But what if he doesn´t wake up? What if he doesn´t stop and say to me, queen - "I don´t want you to do this. Please stop this friendship, I will stop my affair and lets try to figure this out".

Well them I have my answer, do I not?

-Queen-

#1089558 11/28/03 09:57 AM
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Dear Queen.
You are doing what people have been doing since affairs first began: Justifying it that your situation is unique.

Believe me, I know, because that is what I have done! I love this other fellow with a deep caring love so I felt if my husband never found out, this dear OM and I could share this wonderful love and friendship and no one would ever be hurt.

You see, when we are in the throes of passion, we are in a big FOG and our reasoning is not normal.

That is why I have told others here on the site (that just don't understand how this could happen to a Christian woman, kind and loving wife and mother) that IT CAN HAPPEN.

No one is immune! That is why we can NEVER SAY NEVER because you just don't know what or who may be in your future that will make you go gaa gaa and lost your lifetime of moral values over this person!

Love, Sarah....
(It still seems very WRONG for you to be having this affair with a married man and you being married yourself; but you just evidently cannot see that.) I have written before that it is like we are driven, would you agree with that?

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