I think Dr. Harley should needs to challenge Dr. Laura Scless....ger to a debate. For southern Califorians who have listened to her for years, someone needs to set the record straight. She is the queen of "lie and don't tell." She says that if the A is over then lie through your teeth about the A. She counsels guilty WS's to keep their mouths shut. "why put your S through all of that hurt? don't hurt their feelings and shatter their egos. just lie about your behaviour for 10, 20, 30 or more years. That's probably the reason that my W lied for over two years and true recovery has only recently satarted.

I don't listen to Dr. Laura much, but has she written any books on the matter or just given these ideas on her talk show? Maybe on a case by case basis she would recommend full disclosure in certain situations. Unless she's written a book, has she really been asked to defend her position? If she's defended it, what are her reasons for keeping quiet?

and by the way, has it ever occurred to you that SOME spouse might rather NOT know? My mother was one that said if my dad ever cheated on her she wanted to be the LAST to know.

The thing about Dr. Laura that gets me is that while

1)WS are told not to tell, to "not burden their spouse"

2)BSs who call in are told to dump the bum because the WS has cheated.

3)Both are told that keeping the family together is the most important thing.

4) All callers are told to show character and take responsibility for their actions--except for WS's.

So, she can't tell WSs to be honest because then her advice is for them to be divorced and break up the family.

She's really missing the big picture about infidelity...and I like listening to her.

Dr Laura shows very little logic when it comes to infidelity. She just parrots the tired old lines that Lor posted. I hear her saying this stuff every week. She believes the WS has no obligation to inform their BS about their affair. I just don't think she has carefully thought her position through and may fax her one of Harley's articles.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dr Laura shows very little logic when it comes to infidelity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I think that sentence would be complete if you stopped after the word "logic".

She has no training or schooling in psychiatry or psychology, she's just a good radio personality who can inflame half her listeners, and endear the other half to her. Her degree, as I recall, is in Humanities or some such thing.

And if you listen to her for a week, you'll hear everything she has to say. More than a week, you'll just hear the same things over and over and over and over.............

Oscar

I don't think one has to be a psychologist or a psychiatrist to give out basic advice on the radio or to have logic. Being a psychiatrist is certainly no guarantee of logic. She is a licensed Marriage, Family and child counselor.

Here are her credentials from her website:

EDUCATION

BS, Biological Sciences, SUNY Stonybrook, Long Island, NY

MS, M Phil, Ph.D. (Physiology), Columbia University (College of Physicians and Surgeons), NY

Post-Doctoral Certification in Marriage, Family and Child Counseling, Human Relations Center, University of Southern California, Los Angeles

Licensed Marriage, Family and Child Counselor (MFCC), California, formerly in private practice for 12 years

Past member of the Biological Sciences faculty of the University of Southern California (five years) and the graduate Psychology faculty of Pepperdine University (eight years)

UCLA and UC Irvine Extension course instructor

Wasn't Dr. Laura a WS? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

FWIW my BS is not a proponent of telling - she says she wishes she never found out... I used to agree with that. Had i ended the affair and kept the secret i am reasonably sure that at some point when things were not going well i would have done it again - or she would have.

IF a relationship survives the affair I don't think recovery is an accurate term - metamorphosis might be. In order for an affair to go on there has to be a lot of lies and living seperate lives. In order to get beyond a discovered affair a couple is forced to learn to be honest with one another and to pay attention to what the other is doing, thinking, saying, feeling.

Dr. Laura is in the entertainment business - she has an opinion and states it loudly... I admire people who are passionate about their opinion and willing to state it. I also think her opinions and 'remedies' are shallow and not at all well thought out. You can neither understand a post-affair marriage nor solve it in 30 seconds between commercials.

Dr. Laura has a lot to say about single parents that i have not liked much either. When my XW decided to bolt I had to find the best daycare i could (ie I had to fail my daughter and stick her with a stranger).

Bottom line - it is really easy to tell others waht they should do:
1. Be a wonderful spouse
2. Marry a wonderful spouse
3. Raise healthy happy children
4. Do no wrong

Lotsa luck figuring out how to do all of the above without f---ing it up on a daily basis.

Frankly - if someone offers a quick answer to a complex question that they have 30 seconds of ONE sided history on and you actually view it as words to live by then please contact me about a wonderful investment property in Florida... let's go look at it during the dry season.

I used to listen to Dr. Laura on a regular basis .. I stopped 6 years ago.... at that time she told BSs to suck it up and live with their WS for the good and sake of the children.

I did actually get through to her show once ... I was in crisis, what was happening to my myself and my marriage and family due to MIL influence was hitting the breaking point and I could not think any more.

I needed to speak with her ... but all I got from her call screener was "She will not tell you to divore your husband." and then I was hung up on.

As I said I was in crisis and could could now longer really think ... I lasted for another 2 months .. all the while falling deeper and deeper into depression -- have you ever sat on the edge of your bed, loosing all track of time, just staring off into space -- not thinking or seeing anything but darkness? I would do this for hours on end, such was my state.

Then I tried to committ sucided .. I had two bottles of prescription medication ... one would do me in, one would do harm but alert everyone to the trouble I was truly in ....

For the prespective of back then .. I took the wrong bottle...

When the psych doctor at the hospital finally got a chance to talk with me, he asked me about what I thought about this or that ...

I had become such a "non-person" in my mind that I answered with what my husband and others thought about the subject .. "My husband thinks . . . My parents think .... My MIL thinks..."

Never what I thought, he tried to redirect my answers to answer his question .. what did I think -- but I was such a non-person in my own mind I couldn't answer.

I wonder what would have happened if Dr. Laura's call screener had let that call for help go through ... maybe I would have never been hospitalized or had to do 4 hour checkins while my husband was a way -- maybe things would have turned out differently.

I have not listened to Dr. Laura one day since then.

way2

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Well I knew I'd get varying opinions on the "good doctor" Laura. Someone said she's an entertainer. Yes that's true I wouldn't just call in to her and not go see my MC but she has a large audience and she spreads an incredibly dumb message about infidelity. Lately she has gotten a meaner tone to all of her callers. Oscar's right the messages are the same over and over. I love it when she tells someone who is hurting because of their situation to suck it up and get over it. Lovely woman.
It just goes to show you that the Marriage Builders and the Divorce Busters sites are absolutely right when they warn that you really need to screen your MC's for someone who is an expert in infidelity. Otherwise you end up with someone who gives you the tired old dogma of the college circuit ca.1970.

cwmac,

Just curious ... how is/was her M ? did she suck it up ?.

-rh-

I stopped listening to the dear Dr. when a caller came on with a quandry about what to do about the family pedophile, an uncle, that had watched his kids but does not any longer, and was watching the rest of the family's kids. He wondered how to deal with the situation. The dear Dr. began railing him about how parents should stay home with their kids and how dare he hire a babysitter to watch after his kids...and then promptly hung up.

She's pretty clear that what she does is not therapy...and she is right about that, a good therapist would rarely give advice. She seems to use her show to preach her latest agenda or her latest book...and all within a time limit. She's been taken off the air around our area.

I remember hearing once she was divorced.

Both Dr. laura AND Dr. Harley...have no problem with divorce due to an affair..
she agrees with divorce for the big A's

affairs,
addiction,
abuse...

It is my understanding that dr. Harley when asked also states he would divorce over infidelity in his marriage..
(could be wrong ...but am pretty sure that has been said here frequently..)

Dr. Harleys plan is for those that CHOOSE to stay...and developed this plan only because so many came to him wanting to stay...(form what I gather)

Dr. Laura offers similiar advice in the sense that if you choose of free-will to stay with someone who cheats has cheated etc...there is some taking on of issues and problems..that may not be resolved...the acceptance of some of the things..if you have accepted to stay...perhaps the suck it up advice...

I find her extremely entertaining...
she offers her opinion and advice only...
does no psycho-therapy what so ever...
often recomends people to seek professional couselling

I find it funny that people get so turned off by her advice...when her whole schtick is based on people calling her...not her calling them...

Also she is consistant with her beliefs..which people don't like..because we all feel our situations are different..which they may be...BUT her advice never wavers...I admire her consistancy...don't always agree..but I admire that trait that is tough to stick to at times...

Dr. Joy Brown a psychologist who had/has a radio and at one time tv show gave the same advice on revealing an affair by the WS if they have stopped all philandering activity...don't tell...it hurts the other spouse while relieving you of the guilt...she recomends keeping your mouth shut...and working your whole marriage to never ever hurt your spouse in that way again..

I think her show and she, (dr laura) focuses on specificly what she calls moral situation/issues....more than just infidelity....

I cringe when I am listening and just know that the caller is going to get blasted...she really does crack me up...

now go do the right thing....(right Lor!!)

ARK

you get what you pay for.

i agree, dr. laura is an entertainer, just like rush limbaugh (who was never a great thinker ... more like a parrot) is an entertainer.

How can these 'experts' say that concealing your affair is a way to avoid hurting your spouse? Don't they realize that HAVING the affair IS doing major damage and sucking the lifeblood and energy out of the marriage whether the WS reveals it or not? During the time my H's A was going on and before I knew about it I KNEW something was very 'wrong ' in my marriage- I just didn't know exactly what it was. Finally I confronted my H several times insisting he tell me the truth and finally he caved and told me.As bad as the fallout was I am glad he finally got the guts to tell me the truth. Granted it came out in small bits and pieces but without the truth our marriage would never have survived in the long run. lifeismessy

The advice goes out not to tell when a Ws spouse calls in and speaks of an affair in the past that is 100% over...and they want to "fix" things...

Any spouse who is concerned about current infidelity dr. L advises private investigators and confronting it...she frequently asks...who is the honey?

I don't think I've ever heard a WS call in who is in the midst of an affair....eating cake dujour...and seeking advice on how to conceal the affair to continue the hurt...if they were dumb enough to call her for advice....they are dumber than dirt...

I don't think she advises people in an active affair to keep quiet...but most of them aren't calling...

people in a active affair I would believe are usually told to fess up and give their spouse the chance to decide...

ARK who would never ever ever ever ever ever ever call dr laura on her worst day....

I think ARK represents a good portion of Dr Laura's listeners. They aren't really listening for her advice, they already know what she's gonna say.

They are listening for the entertainment value. They listen because it's really fun to hear some poor unsuspecting slob get through, bear their soul, and then get ripped to shreds by the good doctor. She says to these people what the listeners wish they could say to some of the people in their lives.

While she may be educated and may have some experience in the field, she is first, and foremost, an entertainer. She, and her advice, should be viewed accordingly.

OtG

Because Dr Laura is an entertainer, she needs to tell people what they want to hear, or they won't listen to her. I think most WS's who call in are hoping to be told not to tell. Gives them a reason to keep quiet, and not have to face up to what they have done. Dr Laura is not dumb. If she advised people to tell, how many would even call and ask the question?
Michael

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: MichaelinDallas ]</small>

OtG

OH MY GOD

you are right...
If I have it on...it's because I'm waiting for some poor sap to call and ask her if she thinks Kindercare is better than Kiddiecare... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

They listen because it's really fun to hear some poor unsuspecting slob get through, bear their soul, and then get ripped to shreds by the good doctor.

people that call her are not victims...innocently barraged with high moral slaps to the hand...sitting at home doing nothing when suddenly their phone rings...and Dr. Laura is on the other end ...

they called her...and i don't think they are poor unsespecting slobs...I don't tend to think of human kind with such little value...

I believe she often gives good advice...
I believe she often cuts through the emotional baggage (the part people love to place all the value on to...) and gets to the bottom line issue...

I think I listen because it's on...and it's better than the Soaps...or Sponge Bob for the fifty billionth time in our home...

and then it's right on to NPR Terri Gross's Fresh Air...and then all things considered....

and it's way better than Howie any day.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Now there's a piece of valuable radio air space...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ARK