Oh wise sages, I come to you in need of great insight relative to my situation. I am a longtime MB-er who is posting with an alter ego for obvious reasons (Two of you know me, though - where's Pete's?). Unless more info is needed, I do not want to provide any more info because it would easily identify me.

Here is a brief summary:
WS had long-distance EA/PA for 2 years before moving in with OP many months ago. Before WS left, I tried to Plan A, but always ended up LB-ing BIG time. After WS left, I tried Plan B and failed miserably at it as well. Filed for D because WS made very clear WS was not coming back and wanted a D. Once WS started living with OP,though, many reasons not to trust OP came to light and the bloom came off the rose, so to speak. WS has now expressed a desire to reconcile our marriage and has been communicating with me almost daily - albeit keeping it secret from OP. Throughout this renewed communication, I have been doing a VERY good Plan A, including putting D on "hold" at WS's request.

My dilemma - WS wants come home "early next year." When I question why not sooner, WS says that there are certain things that WS feels must be done in order for WS' conscience to be clear moving forward & to give our recovery the best chance of success. I have asked what those things are but have not, yet, received a response. I am trying desperately to say and do the right thing but am at a loss here....I feel, if WS is as sure about coming home as WS says, why not immediately. Why wait until "early next year?" Where do I go from here? Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

PumpkinGirl

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: PumpkinGirl ]</small>

PG:

Well, thankfully perhaps, your description so far is so generic that I can't tell who you are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This sounds like a pretty typical, very malleable si2ation 2 me. I don't mean 2 imply that you should manipulate your WS in any way, but that these kinds of si2ations are very amenable 2 the MB methods.

You say you are doing a good plan A now, and that's great 2 hear. One thing I've learned by NEVER going 2 plan B, even though it's now been something like 22 months since D-day, is that NOT LBing AT ALL EVER, and being a good listener 2 ANYTHING the WS might want 2 share with you (even woes about the OP), that stuff REALLY WORKS WONDERS.

About your 2uestion, though.

"WS says that there are certain things that WS feels must be done in order for WS' conscience to be clear moving forward & to give our recovery the best chance of success. I have asked what those things are but have not, yet, received a response. "

One of the things I felt for a long time was "necessary" for my FWW 2 hear, was something like "never forget that, while you're trying 2 figure out what the right thing 2 do is, I'm doing the same thing, and I may not 'be there' when you meet your conditions". But I don't think that anymore. I think it was arrogant for me 2 think that, in fact. Sure, it IS perhaps true that the BS won't, can't, or shouldn't wait 4ever, but in my case at least, there was no hurry 2 "move on" (and every time I hear that, I pic2re a guy getting up off a bench - say, at Pe-Te's - and going back to work or something). Instead, I found that I still could do a lot of soul-searching while she figured out what she wanted 2 do. ...and be supportive if she ever had anything 2 tell me. And that's paid off.

"I am trying desperately to say and do the right thing but am at a loss here....I feel, if WS is as sure about coming home as WS says, why not immediately. Why wait until "early next year?" Where do I go from here? Any insights would be greatly appreciated."

Your sitch is different from mine in that regard - your WS is still with his OP while he's contemplating coming home? I dunno. I think that many here might urge him 2 stay there until he pulls his head out, and for you 2 NC him until he does. And that would probably work. But you've already broken your plan B, and with "signs" that he's interested in reconciling, I think it's appropriate 2 continue this remote plan A for a while. But I would drop the 2uestions about why he can't come home sooner, or even why he hasn't told his OP of his intentions. People can't be "coerced" 2 stop lying 2 their loved ones (or A partners). They have 2 decide it's not in their best interests. And depending on whether he does this or not, you have a choice as 2 whether you want the "final product" of this process of his back in your life.

Like SC might suggest, try 2 think of this as an oppor2nity for personal growth! Your WS is thinking, for a change, and maybe will take a few peeks out of the fog. Watch the process, but don't hang your fu2re on it yet. It may be confusing, but I bet it's more interesting than watching the slow motion train wreck!

♥2long

PG-

I might suggest that you summon mimi here as well. She went through something very similar and might have some great inpt for you...

Oh Great Pumpkin,

Your secret is safe with me. I forgot who you are anyway. Golly I do love getting older. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I liked 2L's advice, but I think I would like to extend this a bit.

While I agree that you don't want him there if he doesn't want to be there, I do think it is safe for you to ask him how you should protect yourself or he will protect you.

What do I mean? Well, he wants to end it the "right" way. Personally, I think that is bad thinking, because someone is going to be hurt, actually everyone has already been hurt, and it simply comes down to who gets left out of your H's fence sitting exercise.

But, in keeping with 2L's suggestion forcing your H to make a decision is probably NOT the best, however, letting them eat cake is not either. Hence my challenge to you to consider asking him to consider you in this process. How is he going to protect you, and your feelings and you love while he ends this the "right" way.

How is he going to handle the holiday's and family, and such?? What is his plan?

You see I think it is fair, if he says he has a plan, that you understand the plan in so far as it affects you and your family. This plan has to be about both of you or it is likely to fail.

So before I could offer any further suggestions I guess I would need to hear what his plan for YOU is. I don't care so much about OW, but YOU, that is a different matter.

God Bless,

JL

To be a little harsh - How long were you planning on being in Plan A? Not until the beginning of next year, I hope! I would tell him he can't come back unless he meets certain conditions - NC, marriage counseling, openness and honesty. Do you really want him back on his terms? How does that protect you? Why stop the divorce if he isn't actually SHOWING you that he wants to return, instead of just SAYING it? I think it is a great thing to keep the door open, but do not think it is a good thinkg to be making sacrifices for a person who is not yet showing he is actually willing to reciprocate.

You are worth fighting for. Don't give yourself away.

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

I think the others covered it well - what's his plan for recovery?

If he doesn't have one, then communicate to him that you would be glad to talk to him about it as soon as he comes up with it - give him the things you need to have included in the plan and let him work on it.

If putting you first, and coming home now needs to be addressed, list it. As the others said, talk is cheap, lets see some commitment shown by acton.


SS

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

I am outing myself - This message was posted by me using an alias because OW lurks on MB regularly and reads my posts - too bad she hasn't learned anything. Anyways, I was reluctant to post anything and did so under an alias so that she would not know that WH and I were talking and he was planning to return home.

Shortly after I posted this message as PumpkinGirl, OW called me and - long story short - she discovered the e-mails between WH and I. The you know what hit the fan. Despite the fact that, for almost a year before WH moved to the country where OW lives, she was screwing around on him with another married man and, despite 4+ promises of no further contact with this other married man only to be followed by renewed contact with him and, despite the fact that this other married man sent WH an e-mail (OW gave other married man WH's e-mail address and cell phone number) threatening him with physical harm, WH chose OW - again. I told WH both verbally and via e-amil not to call me, not to e-mail me, not to IM me or contact me in any other way until he is ready to set foot on a plane, come home and do whatever it takes to recover our marriage starting with cutting off all contact with OW. Have not heard from him since.

Thank you all for your wise advice.

Regards,

Brit's Brat/BS-42
WH-44
DS - 2 years old

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

Excuse me for butting in, but you are anything but a MB failure! You have done the best you can and that is all that can be asked of anyone. Your WH is pretty far gone in the fog, and that is his "failure" not yours. Hang in there.

While your marriage may not last, *YOU* are not a failure. You can still live up to your potential and have a happy productive life.

Think about your future, where you want to go, what you want out of life, and theny you can plan for it, and you can work for it. Happiness is still out there for you, not failure.

SS

Hey Pumpkin Brit!

Just when you thought this was in the final stages, right?

Hmmm, let me guess - he's drinking again and his life is starting to become unmanagable again, huh?

So he turns to the one that he thinks will be there to cushion his fall...

Remember Lucy in the Peanuts comic? She'd pull the football away when Charlie Brown was kicking it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't soften his landing.

Gib

Brit:

Needless 2 say, I agree: You're no possible way anything resembling a failure!

I do believe that your H's A is "in it's final stages", but they might stay that way indefinitely. In the meantime, it is entirely sensible for you 2 protect yourself from his actions with a firm plan B... ...let the DV proceed, and see what happens, if anything.

I'm so sorry you've been put through this nonsense!

Best regards,
-2long

Thank you all for your support.

Gibby, it was good to hear from you! Actually, I don't know whether WH is drinking, again, or not. His life sounds quite "managed" because OW is "managing" it for him!!! In fact, the "trust" that is at the foundation of their relationship is SO strong that, today, for the first time in many many months, she was logged onto IM - was it to monitor/manage him to make sure he didn't log in and talk to me while she was at work? Silly, silly girl....for the year and half that he was living at home with me and carrying on his relationship with her, everytime I would discover that they were in contact, he would just open a new e-mail account - believe he has had 4 or 5 hotmail accounts that I know about, including one he had me set up for him just a month or so ago and which is listed on my IM contacts, but not hers - or start using a different IM, such as Yahoo, or he would buy phone cards so that he could call her, or call collect....If he really wanted to get in contact with me while living with her, he would find a way just like he did when he was living with me and contacting her. Guess she'll never be sure whether she'll come home one day and he'll be gone...

And you know what, she was doing the same to hide her contact with other married man once WH moved in with her - she entered other married man into her cell phone as one of her friends, then as work. She lied to him about how other married man got his e-mail address until I called the e-mail provider and found out the only way they could get his e-mail is if someone who has his e-mail address gave it to other married man. WH thinks that other married man got it off of a headhunter website where he posted his resume - funny, I have found ALL kind of interesting things on the web and am quite adept at finding even the remotest pieces of information, including other married man's e-mail address - xxxx@tinyworld.co. Despite all of my searching all over the web, including on all of the headhunter websites for their country, I was never able to find the e-mail address other married man used to contact him.

So much for "trust!"

Regards to all,

Brit's Brat

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His life sounds quite "managed" because OW is "managing" it for him!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but...I think this is really funny! He couldn't wait to be with her, and now she is running his life! Life is always more interesting than the movies! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Right now, I am more distraught than when I first discovered the A, or than I was about any of our false recoveries, or when he left me and our son to go live with OW </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK Brit, take a breath, stand up straight, throw your chin in the air and say,

"I am Brit, I am woman, here me roar!! I won't let him control my emotions any longer!!"

Don't know if your a Rogers and Hammerstien fan but there's a great song in the musical Oklahoma. I think its called "Wash that Man Outta my Hair". Pour a glass of wine tonight (have one for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and listen to some songs that will wash that man right outta your hair...

Then do whatever JL says to do - he ROCKS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Gib

Gibby1:

When I "killed" ol' 2long back in December or so last year, I modified "Poor Judd is Daid" for my own eulogy!

My mom had the soundtrack 2 Oklahoma on reel-to-reel tape in the late 50s (no kidding), and we'd listen 2 it on the weekends. In those days, the "boom boxes" had vacuum 2bes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> [and I'll bet JL knows what a vacuum 2be is!]

-2long

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and I'll bet JL knows what a vacuum 2be is! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Guess I'm part of the 'Swingin to the Oldies' too. At 44 I still remember tubes...

When I got the Oklahoma CD, people would laugh at me as I drove by them. I guess they did not appreciate my bellowing, "When I take you out tonight with meeeeeeeeeee, Honey here's the way it's gonna beeeeeeeee"

I thought I was Gordon reincarnated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> !

Gib the Croner (or is that cronie! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Gibby:

I was being nice. JL may even remember the FIRST vacuum 2bes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

...now, he's either gone or he's dead, cause that "insult" would get a rise out of even kind ol' JL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

of course, when I was young, the ground still felt warm 2 the touch...

-2long

Brit:

"I told WH both verbally and via e-amil not to call me, not to e-mail me, not to IM me or contact me in any other way until he is ready to set foot on a plane, come home and do whatever it takes to recover our marriage starting with cutting off all contact with OW. Have not heard from him since. "

Just thought of this. Why not tell OW not 2 contact you again, either along with your H or INSTEAD of your H. I don't know how hard this is for you, it must be pretty hard. But at least one MBer - Lostva - was able 2 plan A her H even while he was living with PT, for many months. She was even nice 2 him whenever he came home. Even2ally, PT cracked and he ended his A.

If he ever does meet your requirements and comes home, by all means have him live alone for a time before just coming back 2 the home, okay?

regards,
-2long

Hey, you guys!

It is South Pacific, not Oklahoma. Nellie Forbush sings it...

"I'm gonna wash that man right outta my hair, and send him on his way!"

Remember?

I'm older than all of you!

*S*

Sparkle,

Glad to see you set them straight - I was going to after I put my dear little boy to sleep. I am quite the R&H fan, as was my WH's late mother. In fact, as I understand it, she starred in little theater productions of both Oklahoma and South Pacific. My favorite, though, is My Fair Lady..."Just you wait 'enry 'iggins just you wait...."

One thing I did not post this afternoon is that WH expressed a willingness to forego all contact with our dear little boy in order to maintain his relationship with OW. How sad for my little boy. What I can't believe is that OW - a mother, herself - would stand for that. I am sure she would be abhorred if her ex-husband abandoned her girls that way.

Well, back to Bob the Builder!

Regards to all,

Brit's Brat

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is South Pacific, not Oklahoma. Nellie Forbush sings it... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sparkle - I knew this...I was just offering a little comic relief to Brit....Really!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

OK, the truth is I'm too young to remember... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Baby Gib