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#1108250 01/21/04 12:32 PM
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I blocked the OM's instant message address... I didn't answer my phone when he called... but he contacted me anyway. His message basically said "Please just tell me that you don't hate me?". So I called him. I have been concerned about him thinking that I hated him ever since writing the NC letter... I've told my H that I was concerned about that. So when he asked that exact question... I felt like I had to call him. I told him up front that there was to be no "love" talk or anything, and he respected that. He actually said that he's going to try to work out his marriage! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I was so happy to hear that! He said that he had already decided before he contacted me that if we ever spoke again, we would be JUST FRIENDS. I told him that I had just wanted to let him know that I didn't hate him, and that he shouldn't contact me again. He was grateful to know that there was no hatred... and said that now he would be able to respect my wishes for him not to contact me again. I believe him.
I called my husband and told him that I had called OM and why - and exactly what OM and I had talked about. He was upset... he didn't yell or anything - kept his cool... but there was some silence... and his voice sounded strained for a bit. He said "thank you for being honest with me" and "you realize that this sets us back to the beginning...". *sigh* I know that he's right according to everything that I've read... but at the same time, I feel so much lighter! I don't have that "what happens if I run into the OM" fear, or the "does he think that I hate him?" thoughts running around in my head. I guess that time will tell whether I am back at square one with the withdrawal or not...
SMH

#1108251 01/21/04 12:45 PM
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It will appear to your husband that you have put the OM feelings once again above his..

that you compassion for the oM...outweighs your compassion for your own husband...

I am telling you this because your post if full of explaining if I am being kind...rationalizing if I am being truthful as why you contacted him...

perhaps if you can see it from you husbands point of view...
to crawl inside of him and feel the beating of his heart....so to say...
you will be able to help your husband heal...and not be so concerned with the OM's healing process....

much luck to you...
ark

#1108252 01/22/04 01:00 AM
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Why did you care what OM thought?

Editted to add:

Not knocking you, xOW pulled the same "do you hate me" line a year after DD. MANIPULATION to get a response that would make HER (not WS) feel better..take take take. You OM did the same, and you walked right into it willingly it seems. You H is right you and H (especially him) are back at square one in recovery.

With hope,
AG

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: A_Grace ]</small>

#1108253 01/22/04 01:00 AM
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smh:

"He said that he had already decided before he contacted me that if we ever spoke again, we would be JUST FRIENDS."

This is no longer a possibility. Once you and the OM had crossed the line at the start of your A, you ruined any "friendship" you may have shared before that.

Was it not clear in your NC letter that you didn't hate the OM? It should have been sufficient. His efforts 2 contact you were selfish, pure and simple.

Having said that, it is good that you told your H, the only one who's feelings you need be concerned about anyway. Yes, your H is right and your recovery has been set back. I don't know whether I'd call it "square one", but it doesn't matter how I feel. It matters how you and he feel. (it also doesn't matter worth a hill of beans what the OM feels).

Focus on the progress with your H that you HAVE been making. That's where recovery lies.

best,
-ol' 2long

#1108254 01/22/04 01:01 AM
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So much Hurt

I hope you don't expect a pat on the back. Instead of protecting your H from further pain, you choose to break NC by listening to a message from the OM, and then choose to respond to that message. What makes you think it isn't a setback.

The OM is married, does his wife know of the A? Or even know of the phone call. Good now you have some concern lifted off your shoulders, and your H now knows that you really don't believe in NC, nor will you keep your word. Your call lets him know that the A can restart. And, if the OM does call again, and he will I don't have any doubt on that one what will you do. What will be the excuse next time.

There is no friendship with the OM. You crossed that line when you had the A. There can never again be just friends. No friendly conversations, no just saying Hi. What will you do if you run into the OM? How can you even concider a friendship with a person that was helping you to destroy your M. And you were helping him destroy his.

NC is NC is NC. Learn it, live it. No more contact for the rest of your life. Look at what he did, you wrote an NC letter and yet his needs to make sure he could get to you were more then your wish to work on your M. He knows that now that your willing to not follow through with your NC letter. He knows he can get to you. Don't believe him when he says he wants to work on his M. If he did he would have NC with you also. He didn't even respect your wishes. What does that really say. It tells me he doesn't respect you but only used you. And, that he is quite willing to use you again. This contact should make you mad, not relieved. The OM wasn't thinking about you, only himself, he is still in the meeting of HIS selfish needs. Time to wake up, your being played.

#1108255 01/22/04 01:03 AM
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Ark -

It will appear to your husband that you have put the OM feelings once again above his..

that you compassion for the oM...outweighs your compassion for your own husband...


*sigh* You're right. I didn't think of that. How could I not have thought of that? I don't know... I guess I was busy thinking about myself and my own concerns again... I really need to be thinking about my H's needs more. I've been trying... but I guess I still have a long way to go.

I am telling you this because your post if full of explaining if I am being kind...rationalizing if I am being truthful as why you contacted him...

Thank you for putting that kindly. Rationalizing... you think so? I'll have to really look at that. I really didn't see it that way... but that's what rationalizing is all about, I suppose.

perhaps if you can see it from you husbands point of view...
to crawl inside of him and feel the beating of his heart....so to say...
you will be able to help your husband heal...and not be so concerned with the OM's healing process....


*nods* I need to concentrate on my H now. You are exactly right. I feel like I have some closure now... so I THINK and I HOPE that it will be easier for me to move forward... and leave behind those things in the past.

thank you...
SMH

#1108256 01/22/04 01:06 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A_Grace:
<strong> Why did you care what OM thought? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Grace-
why did I care? I cared because I care about him. I wouldn't like to think that someone hated me... especially someone that I care about. Therefore, I didn't want him to think that I hated him, either. :-)

SMH

#1108257 01/22/04 01:10 AM
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I agree with ark^^

I will add the following warning: your H may well have decided that your actions vis-a-vis placing the OM's emotional well-being ahead of his are a clear sign where your heart truly is - in spite of what your mouth may say. I wouldn't be surprised if he mentally checks out now.

Hopefully it won't be a permanent thing, but it will be up to you to DEMONSTRATE there is no wavering on your part. Otherwise, you will find yourself on a slide. He will become more distant and everything you do will simply prove the case "See? She doesn't give a damn about me."

The worst thing my WW did - yes even worse than intercourse with another man - was the constant invalidation of my feelings. Whatever I said I felt or wanted was constantly negated, qualified or denigrated. Moreover, I was chastised for not wanting or feeling the *right* thing, according to her. This was particularly true during recovery, as it didn't stop after d-day.

Finally, I got tired of it. I checked out, first mentally then physically. I figured that my W really didn't give a damn about me. Not me the father or our kids or the primary income earner, but me as a person.

I saw then I that not only did I not have her love; I didn't have her respect.

So, be careful what your actions say. Be careful how you minimize or invalidate your husband's concerns. If he is silent, it could because he feels he truly can't be open to you with his emotions.

#1108258 01/22/04 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by 2long:
smh:

Once you and the OM had crossed the line at the start of your A, you ruined any "friendship" you may have shared before that.


ok... I've never understood that. I am friends with other x-boyfriends (from before I was married), and it is not a problem (we're not good buddies, but we do talk)... so why would it be a problem with the OM? I understand that it would be very hurtful to my husband to have him around as a friend, and that is enough reason not to attempt to carry on the friendship. I have no intention of holding on to it. I don't understand why everyone says that you can't go back, though. If both people are committed to rebuilding their marriages, I truly don't understand.

Was it not clear in your NC letter that you didn't hate the OM? It should have been sufficient. His efforts 2 contact you were selfish, pure and simple.

yes, his efforts to contact me were selfish on his part. I can see that. As for the NC letter, though, it did not say anything about hating or not hating him. It was very unemotional, which I believe that it was designed to be by the Harleys. I understand the reasoning for that... except that just the day before, the last that the OM had heard from me, we were talking very intimately. Then he gets a very cut and dry letter saying basically "don't contact me". It would have sounded to me, if I were to receive a letter like that so abruptly - that the other person was very angry at me... or hated me. Maybe I'm rationalizing again? I'm really trying to look at this objectively, though. I really am.

Having said that, it is good that you told your H, the only one who's feelings you need be concerned about anyway. Yes, your H is right and your recovery has been set back. I don't know whether I'd call it "square one", but it doesn't matter how I feel. It matters how you and he feel. (it also doesn't matter worth a hill of beans what the OM feels).

Focus on the progress with your H that you HAVE been making. That's where recovery lies.


Yes - that's what I plan on focusing on from now on - the progress that my marriage has and is making. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you...

SMH

#1108259 01/22/04 01:29 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> why did I care? I cared because I care about him. I wouldn't like to think that someone hated me... especially someone that I care about. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first thought was "present tense"...care not cared. Then I looked to see when your DD was..so it became a little clearer. I think that if my S was willing to stay with me through this I wouldn't give a rat's behind about whether the person that helped me destroy a marriage, no make that two, my H's reality, and myself (read you) hated me or thought that I hated them.

This I think is the harshest I have ever gotten, maybe you caught me on a good day...Look I've been through this several times with contact bc one or both were worried about what the other thought, in the end SMH who do you want to hurt? My FWH actually became more and more angry with contact bc it HURT HIS WIFE, your OP does not have you, his wife, or truly even his concept of his selfworth at heart, he is still in A land and taking all he can from the R.

How are you going to prove to your H that you believe in NC?

REspectfully,
AG
Editted to respond to

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If both people are committed to rebuilding their marriages.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is called respect

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: A_Grace ]</small>

#1108260 01/22/04 01:43 AM
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Hi SMH,

I read all the posts and somewhat understand your delimma and empathy for OM as a human being, although I don't agree with your actions.

I'm wondering when your feelings will stop dictating to you to contact the OM whenever OM sends you his withdrawal experiences.

What about the next time he contacts you and says he "REALLY" needs to talk to you because he's hurting so bad, or when he says something like "you are the only one who REALLY understands me", or if a crisis arises and he feels you're the only one that can support him.

Is this fair to your husband, or your marriage? You did good by telling your husband of the recent contact, that's a very good sign. Please try to understand that every time you contact OM your husband feels the incredible hurt of the affair all over again, regardless of what he demonstrates to you, it's there.

Sending you continued strength.

Lv,
Jo

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

#1108261 01/22/04 01:48 AM
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Silverthorn-
no, I didn't expect a pat on the back... I just needed to share.

Instead of protecting your H from further pain, you choose to break NC by listening to a message from the OM, and then choose to respond to that message. What makes you think it isn't a setback.

I can't argue with you about my H's pain... somehow I guess I didn't think of that, though. I was being selfish. I admit it. I didn't see it at that time.

The OM is married, does his wife know of the A? Or even know of the phone call.

yes, she does know about the A, and the phone call. He actually asked if I would talk to her if she called me... we used to be friends, and she appears to be willing to attempt a return to friendship.

Good now you have some concern lifted off your shoulders, and your H now knows that you really don't believe in NC, nor will you keep your word. Your call lets him know that the A can restart. And, if the OM does call again, and he will I don't have any doubt on that one what will you do. What will be the excuse next time.

I hope that you are wrong, and that the OM will not call again. I suppose that time will tell on that one.
As for my husband knowing that I don't believe in NC, etc... wow... I really must be in a self-centered fog or something. I was thinking that when it was said that contact with the OM puts the recovery back to the beginning, that it was just talking about me and my withdrawal... I guess it would affect his recovery as well - possibly more than mine! I seem to be missing some important parts of this whole process.

What does that really say. It tells me he doesn't respect you but only used you. And, that he is quite willing to use you again. This contact should make you mad, not relieved. The OM wasn't thinking about you, only himself, he is still in the meeting of HIS selfish needs. Time to wake up, your being played.

I was not used any more than I was using him. I cannot be angry at him for that. OM and I made our mistakes together. No, neither one of us deserves a medal for what we've done. I cannot blame him, though. I was a willing participant.

Thank you for your candor... you've given me quite a bit to think about...
SMH

#1108262 01/22/04 01:56 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uphill:
<strong>

I will add the following warning: your H may well have decided that your actions vis-a-vis placing the OM's emotional well-being ahead of his are a clear sign where your heart truly is - in spite of what your mouth may say. I wouldn't be surprised if he mentally checks out now.

Hopefully it won't be a permanent thing, but it will be up to you to DEMONSTRATE there is no wavering on your part. Otherwise, you will find yourself on a slide. He will become more distant and everything you do will simply prove the case "See? She doesn't give a damn about me."

Finally, I got tired of it. I checked out, first mentally then physically. I figured that my W really didn't give a damn about me. Not me the father or our kids or the primary income earner, but me as a person.

I saw then I that not only did I not have her love; I didn't have her respect.

So, be careful what your actions say. Be careful how you minimize or invalidate your husband's concerns. If he is silent, it could because he feels he truly can't be open to you with his emotions. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wow... thank you, uphill.

I will watch out for that. I think that his silence this morning was mainly because he was trying not to yell or anything... but I'll keep that in mind. I'm realizing from the responses to my post that I may have really crushed him this morning. I didn't mean for that to be the result. I guess I should have come here to the forums BEFORE calling OM.
thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience,
SMH

#1108263 01/21/04 02:09 PM
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My FWH actually became more and more angry with contact bc it HURT HIS WIFE
How are you going to prove to your H that you believe in NC?


*nods* I should have thought of that. Unfortunately, I didn't... so now I will have to do my best to pick up the pieces of the new mess that I've made. *sigh*

I don't understand what you meant by this, though?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If both people are committed to rebuilding their marriages.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is called respect [/QB][/QUOTE]

are you speaking of respect for my H? or respect between OM and I?

thank you for your honesty.
SMH

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: so much hurt ]</small>

#1108264 01/21/04 02:17 PM
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For what it's worth, I would give anything if my wife would call the OM and put a resolution to her affair. Instead, she is having lunch with him right now. Says it's a "job interview"...

2 years ago I had an affair on her, and although I have steered clear of the OW I am not too sure there was ever any real resolution between us ending it. I think our last communication was "we know what we have done is wrong, and we've learned from it, but maybe sometime we might forget what we've learned"

But since then I have come to realize that I'll never cheat again. I would call her and say NEVER AGAIN, but at this point it's kind of ancient history.

I think it is good to have that resolution, so even though I am not aware of your situation I applaud your honesty and willingness to end it.

#1108265 01/21/04 02:18 PM
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<small>[ January 21, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

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<small>[ January 21, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

#1108267 01/21/04 02:21 PM
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SMH,

Well you almost got it right. Your honesty in telling your H that you called and why is critically important.

What could you have done to make this better. Called your H BEFORE you called OM back so that you could apply POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement) to your decision. By this you would have taken your H's feelings into consideration. The way you handled it instead is just a continuation of the selfishness required to support an affair.

You've inflicted more pain on an already wounded husband. It sounds like you understand that he's going to need to recover further from this additional betrayal.

In my case the night my husband told me about his affair; when I asked him her name - before he would tell me, he got up, left the room and called her on her cell phone to let her know he was telling me her name.

It felt at the time and in reality it was - an additional betrayal where he put OW ahead of me. You see his "integrity" made him keep his word to her that he would call her first if her name became an issue.

Almost 2-years post d-day my H "gets it" now. I hope you will too. Blessings, CSue

#1108268 01/21/04 02:29 PM
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smh:

"ok... I've never understood that. I am friends with other x-boyfriends (from before I was married), and it is not a problem (we're not good buddies, but we do talk)... so why would it be a problem with the OM?"

Very simple answer: Your x-boyfriends were NOT your BFs WHILE you were M'd 2 your H! Your R with your OM was based on lies and deceit. It was an illicit A, no more, no less. The OM will forever be a "threat" 2 your M, whereas your xBFs may not be, so long as you don't hide anything about them from your H.

"I don't understand why everyone says that you can't go back, though. If both people are committed to rebuilding their marriages, I truly don't understand."

In very rare cases I'm aware of, all parties affected by an A have sat down and thrashed it all out, put all the cards on the table, and remained friends. I suggested this 2 my FWW many months ago, as an alternative 2 NC. But in my case, RM was not a friend of mine before the A. He was/is lower than a nobody 2 me, so NC is the only viable path - just as it is in 99.999999% of all As.

-2long

#1108269 01/21/04 02:30 PM
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Thank goodness you responded, I was thinking I might have scared you off. I think you telling your H was extremely important and made the best of a 'bad call' on your part.

You were asking in a previous response why it was not possible to be friends if both are committed to rebuilding. My answer was Respect - as in it being a matter of respect for your Ss, and for yourselves. I think it is very common for WS to want to go back to being friends, but truth be told, were you being a friend when you asked MM to begin lying, decieving not only his family, but himself and YOU? That is what your actions did ask him to do. That is not what the spirit of friendship is all about. Your friendship ended when you crossed the 'line'. SMH, every word after 'truth be told' are my H's. About 2 months after DD2 and on the eve of my baby's birth he saw the true nature of an A (heck, over a year later HE still has to tell me to stop romanticing it, and explain, yet again, the falicy that an EMR is. SMH a relationship where you are asked to lie and deceive is not true loving one.

You are still 'new' at this I just don't want you to stumble bc it not only hurts your H's (a feeling I know too well), but it will also further undermine your feelings about yourself (something I have seen and heard in my H's sobs). There is no closure SMH and each time there is contact of any sort there are no winners.

AG

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: A_Grace ]</small>

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