Oct

Your WH wants to reconcile now right? Well let me tell you about my WH and see what you think. I am just about ready to give up and I will tell you why. WH lives 45 min from me and about the same from OW, but they see each other at work every night for a few minutes unless he is staying overtime to see her more. Anyway, I am plan Aing right now. Doing really good with it since the whole [censored] and dog fight thing where I LBed and called him. My question is, he really doesn't give two sh**s about me at all. He doesn't even call to see how his son is and he has been sick. He just comes on his days to get S and goes. Am I just supposed to sit back and wait? I mean I am losing weight and taking care of myself and the kids. Praying, cleaning, organizing all of that stuff. But I know him and when he gets something in his mind he sticks with it. I really don't think that Plan A will bother him, and I really don't think that Plan B would either. For the most part it is over between us according to him. What do you think? How did your whole situation unravel?

I really don't think that Plan A will bother him, and I really don't think that Plan B would either.
Plan A/B has nothing to do with "bothering" him or not.
They are about YOU and for YOU.

Doing really good with it since the whole [censored] and dog fight thing where I LBed and called him.
Calling him while in Plan A is not a LB.

Have you read "Surviving An Affair" yet?

Hi hopeless,

Chris is right.Plan A is a negotiation of sorts to help the WS end the affair.Plan B is to protect YOU and the love you have for your WS.Try not to fret over the treatment of your son by your WH.It is very sad how some ignore their children but it is common when they are knee deep in an A.

Ultimately we have no way of knowing for sure what our futures hold with a WS.Some do return home to attempt a reconciliation, others never look back and file for divorce and then there's everything in between.

For me,I went to Plan B sooner than was probably advisable but I had reason to one of which was I was rapidly losing my love for my WH because of what I was going through.So I did a Plan A for around 1 months time.I actually started Plan B the first week of December but due to the holidays,I had to see him at home for about 10 days so that discounted my plan.I restarted as soon as he left to go back to LA.

When I went into Plan B,it was very good for me.I focused on my kids,myself,my friends,family and home,etc.I got stronger.I read everything I could get my hands on regarding Infidelity and I saw my counselor.I felt SAFE in Plan B.I was disconnected from my WH's painful actions and it was freeing.I no longer thought about what WH and OW were doing.I was fortunate though that OW lived in Toronto,3000 miles away so the contact was by cell phone and e-mails primarily although they each took one trip to see each other during that time.

I talked with my in-laws at length and my SIL to let them know how I was feeling and by mid February,I was on my way to D.Two days later,after I made my decision,WH came home to say he wanted to reconcile and that he was going to end his A and he felt good about that.So he came to the conclusion on his own,which is the best way.

You don't sit back and wait for WH,you get ON WITH YOUR LIFE as though he were no longer in it.You have to face the real possibility that your WH may keep going and divorce you.Of course that's not what most of us wants but you have to FACE it.I did and it was one of my biggest fears in life.I did while in Plan B.

It empowered me to think that I,a woman that has been with this one man for more than half my life,could actually be OK if I had to be on my own.It was probably the biggest growth experience I had in my life,thanks to God.I was challenged and I met and rose above it.You can only do this growth,IMO,when you realize that YOU are NOT your marriage,it is but part of your life and God willing a happy,healthy and fulfilling one.If not,then your journey lies elswhere.A tough pill to swallow but I have always believed that the most profound,personal growth occurs in adversity.

I hope this has helped.That is my story in a nutshell. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

O

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Ultimately we have no way of knowing for sure what our futures hold with a WS.Some do return home to attempt a reconciliation,
There is almost always some attempt at reconciliation. It may be extremly feeble, like a brief phone call. Sometimes it is an outright, "I screwed up. I want another chance."

If I was a bettin' man, I'd make that bet.

others never look back and file for divorce
Sometimes, (as in the case of my now ex-wife) they just leave, never look back and never even file for divorce.
Although, my situation seems to be a pretty rare. Can't say I can think of any other as mine.

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Calling him while in Plan A is not a LB.

It is on the 180 list though, so I just figured it wasn't good. Don't ask for assistance. I have gotten other advice saying that calling about the [censored] was an LB. It can be very confusing at times.

Have you read "Surviving An Affair" yet?

I have read it cover to cover, I got the paperback version though, I hope it isn't the condensed version or something. This site has been more helpful than the book to me.

I think my situation is one of those where he isn't going to look back. He did come back for 6 weeks, but he couldn't stay away from OW no matter how hard he tried. He is in "love" with her. So he left us instead. This business with his son is just so weird for me. I could never leave my own son in the dust like that.

Hopeless,

You could never leave your own son but you are rational at this time,or as rational as one can be.Your WH is in an A and it is all about HIM right now even to the exclusion of children sometimes.As Dr.Phil states," You can't make sense of nonsense".It is true,we can try but it is futile.Calling your WH if you are in Plan A is not an LB.

Your WH is "in love" with this OW as you have stated.Well,most,if not all, say that or think that they are,this is their turmoil.It is the first stage of love,AKA infatuation and it will not last for them either.It is hard to hear but it is just not humanly possible to stay in this stage,it is a chemical response in the brain to which there is a limit.I have researched this.

Don't try to over-analyze what your WH is doing,you will slowly drive yourself insane.Pull back and if he wants to go off and be with OW then let him,help him PACK.This can sometimes be the fastest way to let the A crumble when they really get to know one another and each other's behaviors and habits.The more you resist,beg,plead,the more he will put the pedal to the metal.

O

Oct

Thanks. I pretty much did help him pack. I told him if he had feelings for her then I had to let him go. And I did. He drove out the driveway with all of his stuff in two days. Since then I have given him one letter because I told him that he could never come back. Then I found this site and learned a lot. Read the book and all. The letter that I sent stated that he was welcome to come home anytime he wanted without his affair.

He pretended that I didn't give it to him. I also gave him a copy of true hearts letter to all WS. He pretended that I didn't give that to him either. We are going to end up losing our house and everything over this. He wants to put the house up for sale as soon as possible. I am trying to stall all of this as long as possible. I asked him if he wanted a divorce and he said well I just assumed you did. I told him I would never file for divorce that he would have to. He didn't say anything. I am trying not to worry about what him and OW are doing, but it is hard and it is embarrassing for me and my kids. If you could see her you would know why. All of his friends think he is disgusting and he knows it and doesn't even care. He is in the fog deep. I just don't know how long I can watch him do this to himself and our family. Trying to go on with life. I am really confused because calling is on the 180 list, or sounding needy. Can you help with this? I mean I would have to have a reason to call him and I really don't. Should I just call him to see how he is doing in Plan A, or just go about my business and not care? It is very confusing at this point what I am supposed to do. I am getting very conflicting advice here.

Also, sorry I forgot this part.....my son's Dr. wants me to put him in counseling even though he is only 3. He is having issues with anger. Ripping his favorite blanket, acting out stuff like that since his D left. Should I tell WH about the counseling for our S? Or should I just do it and not say anything? I don't want to LB with that either.

The 180 & Plan A don’t go together the best. Harley does not particularly care for them

This business with his son is just so weird for me. I could never leave my own son in the dust like that.
Okay, it’s an “addiction” in every sense of the word.
Just to let you know how strong it is, get this.

My ex took of after knowing the guy for 3 months.
She left after 19 years of marriage.
She took 1.5 suitcases with her. That’s it.

She was as “normal” as the next person. We had a “normal” marriage.
No drugs, no (heavy) drinking, no beatings, etc.

She has been back 3 times (2 days each time) in the last five years. That was to see our daughters who were 8 (just turned) & 13.
She has spoken with them maybe a dozen times in the last 3 years.

Affairs really mess with the mind. They cannot see or think straight. This is one reason Harley recommends Plan A - 6 months and Plan B - 2 years.
This will give them time to wake up so you can decide if you want to work it out.
This gives you time to “just get over it“ so when you divorce, it is not so traumatic.

Ummm. A couple of things.First,I would encourage you to seek a second opinion on your son seeing a counselor.He is very young and to "pathologize" the situation more by having this new person in his life, might be detrimental.Now that is just my opinion and you have to do your own research and get as much info as you can to make an informed decision.What I am doing is receiving advice from the outside but dealing with my daughters on a one on one basis in the comfort and safety of their own home.

But whatever your choice,do whatever you have to to make your home a safe and stable place for your S and D.If that means minimizing any contact they have with WH in the house,that's what I would do.Your son,especially, needs to feel secure *somewhere,a place that he knows he will not encounter conflict,or very little.

It sounds as though that hasn't been the case from your other posts and so your son is acting out because he is very stressed and does not have the ability to express himself otherwise since he is so little.Oh my heart breaks for him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Whatever you do regarding "therapy",let your WH know ahead of time,calmly.He has a right to know and also he should know how this A has been affecting the kids.Don't keep anything from him that concerns the kids.

Second,and this is my opinion only.If you chose to stay in Plan A then you can call him.But I feel that if my WH were moving out to be with OW and stay with her,then that would be my time to think about Plan B and implement it.Too many people here that are new(in my experience) seem to regard Plan B as mean and fear it.On the contrary,it is begun by a very loving but determined letter explaining that you "love your WH but that you are hurt by his continued A and that you want to preserve the love you have for him and you would be willing to work on the marriage once he gives up the OW" etc,etc,etc.

The other reasoning here to me is that if you are not doing a good Plan A and are LB'ing,and your emotions are bottomed out and you think you are losing the love you have for your WH/A then go to Plan B.It will help you gather some strength,get your life and that of your children the necessary *attention that they deserve,instead of WH,and can help to create more stability in your home because kids KNOW when things aren't right at home and between the parents so having that source of pain away from your home base can help to ease the tension.

Plan B also does not say "hey I want a divorce" but it can help stop the madness.I'm not saying that every BS should dive right into Plan B once the WS is off living in fantasyland BUT there are many factors to consider not just whether or not you did Plan A for X amount of time.Look at the whole picture and evalutate if it's *working or not.I personally think that it's easier to hang out in Plan B than it is to be in Plan A for too long when it may not be helping.

Sorry if I rambled but I know you are feeling confused,this is a tough crisis to endure.Just remember that it is best if you can follow the MB principles as closely as Dr.Harley presents them but they also are not etched in stone.Use this information to make the best decisions that are right for YOU.If I thought for one moment that I failed because I didn't stay in Plan A for 6 months as Dr.Harley had recommended or used to recommend,I wouldn't be here talking to anyone.

But I am and my WH wants to reconcile and told me tonight on the phone how much he loves and misses me and how excited he is to start repairing our marriage.Now of course that may be false recovery talk(time will be the judge) but if I am being honest with myself,I have to say that he does sound sincere like he hasn't in a long time.We shall see.

Good night.

O

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Chris,

If I may ask,what is your status now? Are you still married but your WW is AWOL?
Just wondering. I have 2 daughter's too almost the same ages(9 & 12).


O

Divorced two years now.
Ex doesn't know it yet.

Almost zero interest by her in her family or our daughters.

Thanks for the advice. Chris your ex must really be lost in the fog. I could never give up my children for anyone. It is a real shame when the kids suffer, I am feeling it here also. I have an 11 year old daughter who WH was dad to since she was 18 mos. she has taken it esp. hard. Having anxiety attacks with her throat feeling tight and all. Thanks again.