I have had 4 calls with Harley and I am amazed how he is handling WW with kit gloves. I often think I could end this whole facade by simply going out and having an A of my own. It just gets so frustrating that W feels shes in position to negotiate things. It has been so much cajoling just to get her to fill out the EN questionaire. Up till now she still hasn't done it. She told Harley she resents that we are even in MC. How much patience? She is sooooo very slow to recommit to the M. And in my mind we always had a great M. Obviously I missed something but things were never bad. We spend a ton of time together but it just gets discouraging when she continues to act like she's doing me a favor. Anyway my biggest concern now is that I never want to be in the OM's or the Pool Teams company again. When I told Harley that he said don't inform W of that just yet. He doesn't think I should be in thier company but we need to handle W with kit gloves. What is wrong with this picture? Obviously my patience and love has absolutely been used against me. Can you even imagine me serving drinks to OM at my home pretending I don't know what happened. I wouldn't have believed this if I wasn't living it.

WOE

Can you even imagine me serving drinks to OM at my home pretending I don't know what happened?
Is this what Harley is suggesting you do?

Chris, no he's just preaching patience to get W on board with the counseling. I have only myself to blame for letting this situation run me. But Harley is gradually getting her confidence. Don't get me wrong he is very impressive as you know, but I just get frustrated sometimes at how we are coddling the perpetrator. I specifically asked him if I should tell the OM I know and just let all the air out of it. Then maybe we could go on with the same group. He responded "no, that I didn't need to do that". That was encouraging. I just saw something that explained the need for the 2 x 4 sometimes. I think I was just too easy and that's why I got burned the second time. Now I understand that it has to be addressed or we'll both just continue parallel living. I don't worry about another PA but I want us to be as happy as I know is possible.

I specifically asked him if I should tell the OM I know and just let all the air out of it. Then maybe we could go on with the same group.
The same group should not be a problem, as long as the om is out!
om will have to disappear from her life (meaning she will not have anything to do with him) (eventually) as part of recovery.

Hopefully this is what Harley is leading up to.

One of the keys to changing a habit is changing the things which lead up to the action.

For instance, when quitting smoking, if you went out for a smoke after lunch, you should now do something deliberately different, such as dping your daily report (or whatever).
Part of getting over om may be to get out of this group.
Make sense?

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Chris, I asked Harley if maybe she could join another team and get a fresh start. He told me that would be a bad idea (ie. independent behavior). She would need to join something with me. The group really is a package and OM is very friendly with several of them and won't disappear. And I don't want to single him out but rather get her to understand going out to the bar once a week isn't really something she should be doing. There are more productive things she could be doing. On the bright side she is still at the table with Harley. So as much as I want him to hit her with the 2 x 4 I applaud the fact that he is slowly getting her buy in. When you mention about changing the behavior I agree. She is simply too friendly with men. I don't mean that negatively it's just that she doesn't have any close girlfriends. I think with our daughter in High School and W taking a new job we are starting to enter into new circles which might make it easier for her to let go of this group. Here's the fork in the road; there are a lot of typical get togethers that begin around Memorial Day. I am very determined not to be a part of them anymore. I agree with Harley that I can't threaten her with this but I am quite resolved in my position. So it puts him under some time constraints to get her to understand it isn't fair to make her H play the fool etc. She tells me how I should feel but doesn't want to hear how I DO feel. BTW I also see IC and am very pleased with him. So whether I needed IC or not I have embraced it. I think it's a source of embarrassment for W to think this is one more thing she is doing to me to justify the A.

Remember that it was the letter you helped me write that got W to the Harley table. So thank you, but I also need to remember not to waiver. This would drag on forever. What an education we're all getting.

WOE

Chris, I asked Harley if maybe she could join another team and get a fresh start. He told me that would be a bad idea (ie. independent behavior). She would need to join something with me.
Yeah, that is what I was suggesting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It just gets so frustrating that W feels shes in position to negotiate things. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> no he's just preaching patience to get W on board with the counseling. I have only myself to blame for letting this situation run me. But Harley is gradually getting her confidence. Don't get me wrong he is very impressive as you know, but I just get frustrated sometimes at how we are coddling the perpetrator.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

WOE-
I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you right now... but I can try to give you some encouragement here. I was pretty much the same way with my H as your wife is being right now.
I don't know the specifics of your marriage, but I had always felt that I was the only one giving in my marriage... I was always doing things his way, it seemed... and after Dday, my H started (just as your name suggests) walking on eggs. I knew that he was taking most of the blame, and I was perfectly willing to let him. I actually got a bit of satisfaction from the thought that he would do anything to make me happy. He didn't dare tell me "no" about anything... he was afraid to make me angry and have me run back to the OM! You're not gonna believe this one... but the OM actually reprimanded me and told me not to use it against my H, but to be reasonable about how I used that power. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
That was during the time when H and I had just started seeing our counselors, and mine didn't seem to have a problem with me talking to the OM, as long as it was not physical. (note: she didn't SEEM to have a problem with it) I took great pleasure in telling my H that she thought that it was fine for me to talk to OM! It turns out that she was handling me with kid gloves to gain my trust. When we went to the MB seminar, Dr. Harley took off the kid gloves... and I realized what big mistakes I was making! I might have never gone back to my C if she had come right out and told me that I was wrong... she was wise to keep her mouth shut at that moment. I heard what I needed to hear... when I was ready to hear it. Now my C is much more "to the point" with me. I trust her, and I can hear the tough stuff from her.
My point is... there is still hope for your W. Hang in there!

CW

CaptainsWife, thanks for the insight. I agree that Harley is doing the right thing to get her on board. I was quite surprised though as I thought he would have just blasted through her fog talk. But he is giving it credibility which is necessary to get her on board. To be honest I was the happiest guy in the world for at least the last 5 years of our 18 yr marriage. But I think to some extent I am paying for past sins. W will tell me how I never appreciate her when she was pregnant and how I broke the trust at the beginning of marriage (gambling addiction). But youngest child is 11 and I haven't gambled in at least that long. So to be hearing about those mistakes now seems silly. But I am starting to understand just how important no contact is. And I think you also understand that now. EA is absolutely as hurtful as a PA; even to a man. But I only know she is still in an EA because of the criticism I am getting. Consider I am letting her go out to a bar once a week with former lover and have really only been objecting to the phone calls. I must be crazy. But because I question the phone calls she defends herself with a blast from my past etc. I'm glad to hear you say it does get better. I am in a good position because OM is not an option. If for no other reason he's not interested in W. Thanks for visiting.

WOE