i had my first session w/SH this am and he was very encouraging that i sound like i'm doing what needs to be done. i wish we would have more time to talk but he never cut me off to say he had to go. I do think the first session should be at least 90minutes but that's another story.

i did have a few questions (well just a few main questions) that i wanted to get feedback on after i gave our history. one of it was that i had considered calling my FIL to find out if he supported me in fighting for my M and find out what he knew (about the A). SH said that all interested parties probably already knew about the A and didn't think it would really help my H at this point. So i'll sit on that for awhile.

i also wanted to know if i should move back to our house. SH said that i should be were my M is and i can't really work on things if i'm not there but not to do anything yet. i told him one of the things about my hesitation to move back was that if/when my H decides to give us another shot that what a better way to ensure NC than to move to another state (where I already have a job)? so i'll sit on this for awhile too.

other was how to approach my H on counseling w/SH. he suggested to go on the premise that it would help history from repeating itself and help me move forward in my life, that it could be used as an experiment or an idea to try out. i also wanted to know what or how SH would talk to my H. he said he would try to be on more of an intellectual level from an objective point of view (versus try to talk w/feelings and logic).

so i feel good about the session but can't afford another one until april 9th. i'm going to reserve that $ for my H's counseling. not that i think i've learned all i need to learn but i know where to get the information or how to get support, my H doesn't. he's basing his future happiness on our past. so we'll see and hopefully he'll get on board. i just have to slowly try to chip away at the walls that have been put up and do the best plan A i can right now.

<small>[ May 14, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

roughroad,

Thanks for posting that. I really enjoy posts that describe how SH approaches a situation. What an amazing ability to grasp the big picture and center in on what needs to be done! He has such clarity of thought.

I can certainly see why he'd say you need to be close to your H if you're going to work on your M. Did he say why you shouldn't do anything just yet? What are you waiting for, and what are you supposed to be doing in the meantime?

thanks turtlehead for the reply! of course i'm really just guessing but i think he wants me to wait because i haven't been in plan A for very long, I'm supporting us financially right now, and to see if H will agree to counseling on the 9th. that was the feel that i got. believe me if i thought that moving back would help RIGHT now i would be there and if SH told me yes, you need to go back start planning, i would put in my notice and i would be gone. but he said to wait so i am. but he knows that my M is my priority now.

i had been somewhat limiting contact w/my H because i didn't want to seem clinging or needy or feel like i'm pushing him but now that SH says i really need to keep in contact w/him (ie. more than what i've been doing). i did however, just spend a week at our house last week but my H didn't stay there, he said it would be easier if he wasn't there (yeah, i'm sure it was easier). so i'm going to use my best judgement (w/MB help) and start initiating some contact more, whether it be by phone, email, or mail.

i'll definitely let you guys know how i'm doing!

Roughroad, it does seem that you should be at home in order to give it the best chance. I am also counseling with SH. When I asked him how he would propose to get my W on board he mentioned the children. He was going to ask W wouldn't it be best for the children to live in a home where mommy and daddy are in love? That's powerful stuff and even my W couldn't refute it. He is very patient and I would agree excellent. One thought I have for you about the money. I would allocate money from a reserve fund if such fund exists. This may not follow the POJA but in the end you can explain to H that you considered this more important than childrens college fund, retirement or rainday fund or any other fund that you might have. If none of that is workable what about borrowing a few bucks from parents or in-laws. I suggest this because you simply want to give your M the best possible chance. If SH represents that chance you need to do what you can to make it happen. After all if things fall apart, divorce is going to destroy college,rainday and retirement funds. And no I don't work for our sponsor.

WOE

Roughroad, I too consle with SH. I feel very comfortable talking too him. He is very calm, not like a lot of people here rushing me to Plan B. He told me that I need to lay the foundation for a Plan B. he has plans for me. So you hang on there, just to listen to his opinion. You come here to vent. All opinions are appreciated, but you need to pick the ones that fits you, otherwise, it will drive you crazy.

I don't know your financial situation. Do you have children? Did you consider refinance your house to cash out some money?

I know what anybody says here is because they are just trying to help so if you do a little "advertising" it's okay w/me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

the fact is that the money just isn't there. we don't have any savings or anything like that. my dad just started a new job after being off work since before christmas and they just don't have the money either. my mom said she wasn't going to be able to send me any cards for awhile (money is really tight). don't think my IL's have it either, my H's dad is almost 73 and is still working. my H does have an uncle and aunt that are pretty well off and i have thought about calling and talking to them (i've always been on good terms w/them) but other than christmas cards haven't had a lot of contact over the past few years.

i've even considered and applied for part-time jobs on the weekend. like stocking at a grocery store. i'm a bachelor prepared nurse w/military experience and didn't get any replies from a stocking job! but maybe i should start looking again. isn't walmart always hiring?

part of the reason why i've gone more away from moving back is that i think my H would think i'm just trying to control/manipulate him and i don't want that to come across. a big part of our M consisted of me continually making decisions w/out him and just doing what i wanted to do. so i'm trying to change the mode of behavior and right now just don't think it's the right time. now ask me again in 2 weeks after my H will hopefully talked w/SH.

i've already talked to my supervisor about moving back and asked if they have any jobs like what i have around where our house (i have a really good job and it's a new position) she said don't worry about whether or not they have this same job there or not, just get a job and go from there. she's been very supportive and feel truly blessed i've had her support.

anyway, i need to get cracken at the want ads!

lost,

no kids, but lots of bills. we don't have a lot of equity in our house we bought it brand new in dec. 1999. we did try to refinance it once and things you have to are application fee (it was $200), we have to have a new estimate and land survey since we've done some improvments and that is between 2-400 dollars, and then of course my H would have to agree to refinance and right now he just wants to sell it and get on w/his life.

Roughroad, OK you do counseling at whatever pace is comfortable. I thought moving back is a step in the right direction but only if you can Plan A in that enviornment. I have been trying to get my ship turned in the right direction for a long time. That is how I would look at things, no so much with an eye on the goal but rather an eye on the direction. I think as long as you feel things are going in a positive manner you can be more patient. Eventually this fog thing has to wear off and then you need to be in the best position to heal. I think we BS's are in a position to assist the fog lifting by doing the right things.

RR,

I don't know how much equity you have in your house. The reason I aksed is that mortgage is my part time job as my own business. Depending on your credit, income and the value of the house, you can cash out or ref without paying a penny. That is how most of my clients did. you should look for those who don't cahrge. But I do require $300 deposit and most of them do. The money is returned at closing.

Another suggestion is to get a loan from your retirement account.

just started a TSP in december 03. pretty sure i don't have anything i can take a loan against. thanks guys though for all the suggestions. looks like i will either have to get a part-time job or borrow money. of course, i would be saving $400 plus a month by not paying a rent and a mortgage payment. i guess i could always sell blood/plasma <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> just kidding.

late yesterday i discovered my H changed his email password, i hadn't really anticipated this. i think i need to have another session w/SH soon. i was going to reserve $$ for my H to have a counseling session w/SH and i still will but i think i will ask a friend to borrow some money so i can have another session before/if my H has a session w/SH.

^

well i was able to get the limit on my credit card increased so now i'll be able to afford some more sessions. of course it's not ideal to put more on my credit card but the situation i'm in is not ideal either. hopefully, i can talk to SH tomorrow, friday, or monday at the latest. this time the session won't be mostly one-sided now that he knows my "story."

got my hopes up a little, i have my 2nd session w/SH tomorrow morning.

well, i had my 2nd session w/SH this morning and i had all the questions/topics i wanted to discuss w/him already prepared. we talked about a lot but i'll try to summarize the best i can, don't know if he (SH) read this he would have the same summary but oh well!

we talked a lot about my H talking to SH and how would the conversation go. my concern was that i felt the only way my H would agree to talk to SH is if i approached him that it was to help me. with that being said, if my H got on the phone w/SH and he (SH) started to talk about any M stuff then my H would think I manipulated him into talking to SH. Of course SH is a well-trained professional and would know what to do and say but i still wanted to know what he would say. basically he said that he would be planting seeds of doubt w/my H and ask my H what it will take for him to be happy. SH would ask my H about ideal situations (loving your wife, being happy in M) and go from that standpoint and even though it might take time to see the growth at least the seeds would be planted and my H might begin to see some doubt in what he's doing, what he thinks will happen if he came back, etc.

i asked SH if he would talk about me w/WH and he said it all depended on the how the conversation went but yes he might discuss that i've realized i needed to make changes, etc. I asked SH if i should ask my WH how the session went and he said it was up to me but that he woould probably just leave "that" alone for now. I asked SH if he would discuss w/me what was said by WH to him, and he said he would for the most part to help me get an idea of where my H stands and what he (SH) thinks would be the next steps.

i also mentioned moving back to our house and what my concerns were with that. because i had made so many decisions in our M (big and small) and basically did whatever i wanted w/out regard to how my H felt that i felt if i moved back to our house that my H would just perceive this as another thing i was doing w/out regards to his feelings and that it was what i wanted. SH agreed for the most part because as far as my H is concerned right now is that he doesn't want to work on the M and I need to concentrate on painting a good picture of myself. adhereing to the changes i've made (not doing just what i want among other things). Also that if i did move back that i may not be able to sustain the feelings i have for my H and if i were there and knew he was still seeing the OW i might start to resent him etc.

of course, i'm still confused about a lot of things but something in particular was doing a plan A and simultaneously doing things to intervene to end the A. SH said that often in addiction related situation intervention (by family/friends persistent push that what the person is doing is wrong & they are hurting people) can help but often is not the case in infidelity even though that is an addiction as well. that having the spouse actually be the one that is pressuring the "addicted" spouse most often just pushes them further away.

as a caviot to this i mentioned again the involvment of my FIL (I'm still trying to think of things that can be done to help bring an end to the A). this time though i asked what if my mom were to call his dad. SH said i would have to be careful w/this because if it were to be known that I asked my mom to do this then it would probably not be good. however, if i told my mom if she wanted to call my FIL and compare notes/see where he stands, etc. that it was up to her (wink, wink) and then i could honestly say i didn't ask her to do this. it might could give me some real intel of how his family stands.

i asked SH if there was another MB seminar being planned besides the one in CA the end of this month. he said that tentative talks have been about the seminar be in july in minneapolis but nothing was planned or definite yet.

so based on all that we talked about today, this is what i'm going to do:
1-continue small contact w/my H
2-talk to my mom about talking to my FIL but leaving it up to her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> honestly i don't know if she would feel comfortable doing this but think she would if she felt it would help me.
3-not make any decisions to move back to our house for now
4-try to get up the courage to talk to my H about him talking to SH and NOT get my hopes up about it.
5-continue to plan A, paint a good picture of myself by sticking to the changes i've made and not let what my H does or says affect me because he is in an addictive state and not thinking clearly.

i'll continue to keep you guys posted. not sure when my next appt will be. prayers to you.

RR, I got similar advice from SH. In contras with many advice I got here. he simply tell me that I should NOT do too much to pressure to end the A, which will push him further. So I don't know what I did was right or not. I kept telling OW's H to push to. Well, I think that we have to follow one advice, instead of many.

Sounds like a good session RR. I'm trying to figure out what I need to write down for my session with Jennifer on Tuesday could you give me an idea of what you wrote so I can do it this weekend? I don't want to go into the session unprepared. I just sent my W a little email. The guy I work with like's Neil Young and Bruce Springstien and I can't stand them and she knows this. The email was Bruce and Neil ahhhhhhhhhh make it stop make it stop. Smile. Nothing to major just a quick email of course she could be blocking me but I doubt it.

thanks lost, it definitely is hard to decide which advice to follow and what not to. I think i've been doing a little of both but i am sure that SH knows what he's talking about and his advice is specific to our situation, which i think does have a lot to do with it (no kids, OW is single, etc.)

tinman,
well i can give you some of the questions or topics i wrote down but i'm not sure how they apply in your situation. i can't remember all that has happened in your situation. mostly that 2/11/04 is the worst day in our lives so far but hope it will be the last.

anyway...some things i was going to talk or did talk to SH was.
1-if i should send a letter that i wrote to my H that listed reasons why i love him (he said no because he's "numb" right now and wouldn't have an effect but to keep it for later)
2-if my H agreed to talk to SH what would he (SH) say to him?
3-discuss my concern w/mixed signals, in other words, how to fight for my M w/o being clinging, talking w/H about talking to H to help me but when H gets on the phone the talk goes to M w/SH, what would moving back home say based on our past history of me doing whatever i wanted.
4-talked about my parents and my IL's involvment
5-experience w/reluctant WS attending the MB seminar
6-what to say when my H says things like "whatever you do it won't make me come back," "if you love me, you'll let me go," or "realize, i can't go back."
7-the fine line between being too eager/nice, making changes, and not LBing.

Hope that helps, i basically just wrote down stuff that i wanted to "get" from SH but of course didn't ask or talk about everything. I would pick just 2 or 3 questions that you definitely would like to get "answers" to before your next session. because the first session is mostly going to be you telling her your "story." and you are limited by a time factor. good luck and let us know what questions you come up with. maybe that will help come up w/other questions and if you can't get answers to all of them, save them for the next time. good luck!

Thanks RR that's what I needed to know. Thank you so much but if the first session is going to be our story I'll wait till second session to ask my questions. I think some of my questions will be should I change the locks to the house back to the old locks to show her that I want to trust her. Whenever she comes over to talk she ask's me if she could use the bathroom. I tell her that she doesn't have to ask it's her house too but she says no it's not you changed the locks and i feel terrible everytime she says this. One other little thing I did was when she would use the bathroom she would use the one off our bedroom well there was only one pillow on the bed last time she was over so I have put 2 pillows on the bed now and maybe she might think something is happening. If she asked though I would tell her the truth that i just use it to help me fall asleep, I used to wrap my armes around her at night to sleep so now i wrap my armes around the pillow it helps but it's not the same.

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: The Tinman ]</small>