my concern was that i felt the only way my H would agree to talk to SH is if i approached him that it was to help me.
Doing it this way is how he (Steve) suggested I should approach my ex.

He started by explaining a bit about MB principles.

with that being said, if my H got on the phone w/SH and he (SH) started to talk about any M stuff then my H would think I manipulated him into talking to SH. Of course SH is a well-trained professional and would know what to do and say
Yes, he kept the conversation along the lines of what were the problems as she saw them (so I could understand and change for the better).
He did'nt try to convince her that she should stay married (that was her reservations about talking to him. Same with most ws)

But yes he did do it in a way to "plant the seeds" a such.

thanks chris, do i understand correctly that you and your WW are not together anymore? curious that if the "seeds" were planted by SH what happened.

do i understand correctly that you and your WW are not together anymore?
Hah!

curious that if the "seeds" were planted by SH what happened.
I doubt it. But I'm a "special" case. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Here is my story briefly.

Met in 11th grade. Started dating in 12th grade. Got married 6 months after graduation (1980).
Both of us joined military. She got out after 4 years, I stayed in.

Two girls, now 18 & 13.

She had affair beginning in October'ish 98 with wankstain who was in area for only a month or so.
He moved out of area just before Christmas 98.
I found out Christmas night 98 about 2 previous affairs (2 & 9 years after marriage).
Next night I found out about wankstain.
She moved out (across the US) to live with him 5 weeks later. Took only 1.5 suitcases.

She calls the girls a few times a year. Usually 6-8 months apart.
She has only seen them 3 times since she left (just over 5 years).
I have only spoken with her for a total of maybe 15 minutes in the last 3 years.
I have been divorced since Jan 02. I received everything. House & contents, cars, bank accounts, etc.
She got to keep her own retirement stuff.

She is not even aware of the divorce.
Her family lives about 60 miles from here. I see them about once a month. We get along great.
She does not visit or call them.

As Monty Python says, "She's a loon".

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Bump for heroswife

again, i guess my question for you chris is what happened w/the seeds of doubt planted by SH? or is that she's a loon and nothing would have made a difference.

Please every one, pray for me. Wh said he is going to call SH in 5 to 10 minitues. Sh's phone is so busy, please pray that SH is able to pick his phone call. It is very critical to me.

Sorry, RR, I steal your tread.

no problem lost, and prayers are coming your way!

Praise the LORD, he is talking to SH. I was so anxious. I call the MB schedule # and ask them to see whether Wh is talking, the answer is yes. Thank you for your prayer, and keep praying for a good conversation.

I don't expect magic will happen instantly. I do hpe that SH plants a seed of hope on him. Thanks a lot. I will keep praying now.

i posted a new thread for you and let us know how it goes. you may not really know until you talk to SH again yourself but it's a start. what happened to get him to talk to SH? besides prayer that is!

I don't know how I did it. I have been praying very hard and asked everyone I know who is a believer to pray for us. He even sent me an e-mail on Fri. telling me that he still wanted a D.

what happened w/the seeds of doubt planted by SH? or is that she's a loon and nothing would have made a difference.
Yes, I don't believe it made a difference because she's a loon.
Also, as I found out, she had 2 other (and probably more) affairs prior to this one.
One at two years and one at nine years.
So I think the guilt played a BIG part of it.
She did mention she felt she could never get over it. (So how did she expect ME to "just get over it"?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have my 3rd session w/SH on thursday and will post how it goes. what i want to talk to him about mostly this time is to plan how i will handle the little things, big things, and a more specific plan. AFter this session it will probably be awhile before i can talk to SH again. i made an appt for monday for my H too just in case he agrees to talk to SH. please all pray that God will convict my H to agree to talk to SH if that's his will. I'll probably try to talk to my H on thursday after my session w/SH. even though it would be a small step if my H talked to SH and i shouldn't get my hopes up it would still be on the "path." and we all know that a journey of a thousand steps/miles starts with just one step. prayers to all of you.

just asking for an additional prayer in the next 24 hours. i'll probably talk to my H tomorrow about talking to SH, unless SH says it's too soon to ask him, i don't think he will but anything is possible right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RR, I will pray for your session tomorrow and pray that you have good talk with your H. I pray that you H will talk to SH. Best.

well just had my 3rd session w/SH, of course it was good and i feel better afterwards. I always go w/a list of questions or topics to discuss. this kind of helps me get through the next appointment about thinking what to talk discuss at the next session (scenarios, etc.)

i gave him an update, not really much to say, nothing has really changed, i've mailed a payment book to my H at his request, we've talked a couple of times, and i sent him an email (he's never replied to any of my emails since i found out about the A) but we never really communicated by email in the first place.

we talked again about my H talking to SH and i asked SH if it was too soon to ask my H and of course he said no and that this kind of needs to be done w/some urgency. i told him what i had planned on saying to my H:

"i've had some counseling sessions and i am making progress. the counselor thinks it might be helpful to talk to you to find more about how i was in our M in order to help me adhere to the changes i've made. i'm not sure if i can really move forward right now and i don't want history to repeat itslef w/anyone. would you consider talking to him?"

if my H says yes then i'm supposed to ask how soon he thinks he could do that b/c SH wants to talk to me soon after they talk. (i've already made an appt for monday from my H just in case).

if he says no or that's it's not a good idea or that he can't or that he doesn't want to be told what to do, etc. then i'm supposed to say that SH is not going to tell him what to do or talk about what's going on, only that he wants to understand his (my H) perspective in order to be more effective in working w/me.

so i'm going to call my H today (pray for that please).

we also talked again about contact (how much should i have and what kind of contact I have), my concern was if i bombarded him w/stuff from me then he would think that i was clingy and needy. so i had initiated little contact and tried to keep our conversations very brief. However, SH said i need to initate some kind of contact at least every other day. i was really surprised at this. again my thoughts were of being needy and if i emailed him he may not even read it, if i mailed him something he might just throw it away. but SH if nothing else it will make him think about me and prevent him from compartmentalizing. it doesn't necessarily matter if he doesn't read what i send, it's still a thought of ME. he said to be very brief and factual and just try to convey that i am still here and see what's going on as a variable because he (my H) does not.

talked about my role/participation in the sell of our house, finances, dogs, etc. SH said to drag my feet because as long as their are "ties" then it will keep him from making a break, that when things are "clean" (finances divided, house sold, etc.) then it's easier for my H to walk away. i've already thought this for the most part, but i can't make my H give me money so i have "agreed" to separate some of the things he pays and what i pay, etc. but will be more conscience of what i do from now on, maybe even ask for money.

i should continue to chip away at things and not to worry about planning things far in the future because we really don't know how things will be like. such as i told SH i have leave the first week in may (requested before i found out about A) and that i hadn't decided whether or not to keep it or not. SH said just to hold on that and discuss it closer to that time. our 11th anniversary is in june.

we talked again about the involvement of my FIL. I said i hadn't done anything since the last session. but that i think there is still the possibility that his dad doesn't know because when his mom came to our house in feb after i had to go to the hospital, i told her there was someone else and she said that she didn't know that, that he (my H) hadn't said any of that to them. Also that my MIL hides a lot of things from my FIL (finances, movies, etc.). SH said as long as the "exposure" to my FIL didn't come from me that it was okay. i told him i was planning on calling the IL's on sunday, since it was easter and would be a good occasion to call. i hadn't talked to my FIL since the end of january and definitely not since i found out about the A and that i hadn't talked to my MIL since feb. that when i called it was basically just going to see how they were doing and let them lead the conversation but that i wanted to convey that i still love their son and that i want our M to recover because i know that whatever happens, their son is always going to be part of their lives and i can't make or ask them to do anything.

discussed the likelihood that the A will die a natural death and of course SH asked me what i thought. I said that most people here thought that given the age differences, etc. that it wouldn't last and that once the warts started coming out and the OW started to LB my H that it would end. SH said that the thing is that their R was started as an A and that can NEVER change. That part of M or R is having a mutually happy or agreeable M and that they (my H and the OW) have never had that. we talked about how maybe one of them (my H, OW, or OW parents) will begin to think about if my H cheated on me why wouldn't he cheat on OW, if OW cheated w/me she might do that w/someone else. Their feelings for each other are based solely on emotions and that my H cann't even conceive or consider that our M could work out, that's not in his equation right now. And that goes a lot into what SH talks about w/WS, what it will take to make the WS happy and about ideal situations. SH will use whatever the WS says (yes to idea being in love w/W or no don't want to be in love w/W) to guide the conversation, like using a decision tree, but all the time planting ideas or seeds of doubt w/the WS.

So if my H talks to SH next week then i will talk to SH next week but if he doesn't then it might be awhile before i talk to SH again (trying to spread the $ around). so i'm going to ask again for everyone to pray for me as i talk to my H about talking to SH and that he will agree to do so. prayers to all of you.

just wanted to let you all know that my H has agreed to talk to SH on monday. i know this is a baby step but it's a step and i'm trying not to get my hopes up. please continue to pray for my H and that he will go through with the call. prayers to all of you.

RR I've been real busy all day I've posted a few shorties. I'm glad your session went well and I hope and pray that your H will counsel with SH so you don't have to do Plan B. My thoughts ands prayers are with you.

RR,

I'm really glad that your H has agreed to talk to SH on Monday. It will be interesting to see what SH learns about where your H's mind is, and what he decides to do as a result.

Another thing about dragging your feet in selling things, splitting things, etc. Not only will it make it more difficult for your H to make the split, but since your H feels you've been to eager to take control of everything, now he gets to enjoy the fruits of you NOT taking control of it all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

RR -

I think the chances of their R working out are slim to none (with the slim side being extremely small). The age difference alone will kill this R. Not to mention the fact that all of this started as an A. SH is right (not surprising)...the fact that this R started as an A will forever remain true. I think the fog will lift.

I didn't have to give the relationship a chance to die out on it's own. I wasn't strong enough to do that and I believe I put myself through a great deal of pain because of that. I'm not saying that I wish my H had the chance to explore his A further...I do not think I would have been able to take him back after that. The fact that he had this relationship almost killed me. Most of you MBers witnessed my path of depression.

Rough I think your situation is differnt from mine in the fact that OW is not married and there are no children involved. One thing to be said about not have children is you will never have to wonder if your H stayed for the kids. That could be viewed as a high point.

I think your H is in deep fog right now but I think that fog will start to lift as the reality of "real life" starts to set in. There's no way her family will support her having a relationship with you H considering how it all began.

To think of how his family would perceive OW should only make them realize how much they didn't appreciate you. I think you get my meaning there.

Focus on the best possible outcome here. Bare with me:

Your H decides to give your M another chance. You continue your Plan A...no LBing. You show your H how forgiving you can be. You focus on meeting his ENs. He sees that and in return commits to filling your ENs. His family sees this woman who they initally rejected, standing by their son...through thick and thin, better or worse, good times and bad. They see you holding him up when he's about to fall. They realize that not only did they misjudge you because of your religion but they missed out on all those years you could have been closer to them. Your H sees the relationship you have uncovered because of your love for him and he falls in love all over again.

This will be your reality. Focus on the best possible outcome but prepare yourself for the pittfalls. During those dark times come here for support. We will pick you up and carry you through this. Trust me you are not alone.

You have the MBers and you also have a very strong faith in God. I believe God is carrying you right now. You have shown a strength that mortal man cannot take credit for. Your ability to deal with all of this and not be crazy angry at your H is a direct reflection of your faith.

I'm praying for you. I pray for you everyday. Please remember not just to pray for your situation but pray for OW. This might be hard but it will give your heart a great deal of relief. I promise. At first I wanted to pray that OW would be hit by a bus and not die but be crippled for life.....KIDDING PEOPLE...but then I prayed that God would open her eyes to the pain she was inflicting on others by her actions. After the first few times I prayed for her I realized that it was easier for me and made me feel better about the situation.

That doesn't mean that when we had the confrontation in the front yard I didn't want to pull her teeth out through her forhead....I wanted nothing more then to do that. I prayed for self control because I have very little of that.

I hope you are ok. Please keep us posted.

RR, I am glad thingd went well. I will keep praying for you. Keep your spirit up.

I feel ok, but I can't put too much hope in it. I have to work hard on myself. It is likely that he will even not be home tonight. But I want the kids to be happy at least.